11.5" or 14.5" SR-15? First AR

[DocMaynard]

I'm looking to buy an SR-15 upper for my first AR. I'm really torn on deciding between an 11.5" or a 14.5" barrel. My reason for buying an SR-15 is really for the long-term reliability. While I intend on this project not being my last, I do want a rifle that I can build a solid foundation on while being a go to rifle for training, home defense, and if society goes to shits for a bit. Pretty much a go to rifle to carry out of the house. I live in a state that allows SBRs and since I planned on making a 11.5" way later down the road, I intended on SBR'ing my lower receiver anyways. So I'm just deciding on which barrel length I want to begin learning on and to maximize the reliability that KAC is known for.

Some considerations I had were that a 14.5" rifle would be more reliable, less concussive, and can be used at a longer range (even though there's nothing but mountains & trees here). While an 11.5" rifle seems like it would have to be suppressed otherwise the flash and the noise would be too much. Unfortunately, with the ATF wait times and my budget being the way it is, I don't see myself getting a suppressor for at least a year. Also saw something on InRangetv about how going below 14.5" does funny things to guns with DI. However, an 11.5" rifle would be considerably more maneuverable inside buildings and cars, and could be carried for much longer if I ever needed to.

Another option I had is going with a 16" upper but it seems like there would be no benefit other than not having to get an SBR stamp. But it doesn't seem to be ideal since from what I read, it's only a market that was created because of the NFA and not for technical reasons.

I plan on also purchasing a KAC lower as well. Purchasing them separate since a local dealer is giving a pretty significant discount on the uppers and complete rifles seem to be out of stock everywhere.

[Wake27]

My vote is for legal purposes only. No matter what happens in the future, I just see a 14.5 being easier than an 11.5 so that's always my recommendation for a first gun.

[RHINOWSO]

Yeah, first AR get something non-NFA. You easier / more enjoyable to shoot it while you wait for a F1.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

My preferred barrel length is 11.5", but I wouldn't recommend it for a first rifle.

Don't overthink maneuvering around vehicles, SHTF, and miles and miles of walking with a slung carbine unless it's something you already do often.

[nate89]

One thing to consider is if you are going to pin/weld the 14.5. I'm pretty sure that KAC does not do that on their 14.5 guns from the factory. That means either going with the KAC muzzle device and essentially committing to a KAC can in the future, or go out a buy something from Dead Air/Surefire/etc. and have it installed for you.

With the availability of the SBA3 pistol brace, and the fact that you are purchasing the upper and lower separate, you could pull the stock and use the brace on either an unpinned 14.5 or the 11.5 upper until your form 1 came back. Also consider the speed of the e-filed form 1s (I've seen many measured in weeks rather than months), and you could have a stamp back fairly soon, eliminating the need for the pin/weld job as well as making it easier to choose the 11.5 if that is really what you want.

I have a 13.7 upper, and I have an 11.5. Honestly I prefer shooting the longer gun more. It seems to cycle smoother, has less movement of the dot when shooting, and there is more forend to work with. If I could only have one AR, it would be something in the 12.5-14.5" range in 5.56.

[OldState]

Welcome to the forum.

I would take the next month or so to search your areas of interest on this forum. I’ll bet you will probably have an entirely different perspective on everything than you may have now.

If it was my money I would skip the KAC. For around the price of that upper you could get both a BCM rifle and pistol lower with a BA3 stock AND both a 11.5” and 16” BCM complete uppers without sacrificing any “long term reliability”.

I think $1900+ could be much better spent than on that KAC upper. Especially as your first rifle. Don’t forget a light, sling, and optic.

[ViniVidivici]

I would say go with the 14.5. Heck, even consider 16 inch midlength.

No trouble at all maneuvering a 14.5-16 inch in and out of things, easy enough to hump for miles and miles.

[Captains1911]

14.5" would serve as a more general purpose rifle, so I say get that for your first.

[GAST]

Welcome to the forum.

I would take the next month or so to search your areas of interest on this forum. I’ll bet you will probably have an entirely different perspective on everything than you may have now.

If it was my money I would skip the KAC. For around the price of that upper you could get both a BCM rifle and pistol lower with a BA3 stock AND both a 11.5” and 16” BCM complete uppers without sacrificing any “long term reliability”.

I think $1900+ could be much better spent than on that KAC upper. Especially as your first rifle. Don’t forget a light, sling, and optic.

I have both length KAC's. While they are one of the best all around values for a total package, IMO, I think OldState is offering some sage advice here. Not necessarily for the cost of the rifle but for the light, sling and optics as well. Plus the training and the rounds. Be sure it's something you're going to use and not just admire.

You can't ever go wrong with a KAC, but you may not appreciate it as much unless you've had some time behind the triggers of other rifles. YMMV

[BuzzinSATX]

14.5 or, IMO, better option is 16”


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[kerplode]

Get a 16" BCM light weight mid-length and call it a day. IMHO, it'll be a better all-around choice than either the 14.5 or the 11.5 and no NFA ass-aches to deal with (I have an several 16's and an 11.5, FWIW).

Spent the extra money on a light, sling, quality optic, and ammo then shoot the piss out of it.

[OldState]

If I was looking for my first rifle now the Colt CCU would be very attractive.
https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/colt/le6960-ccu-le6960-talo-special-edition-ar-15-rifle-5-56mm-16in-30rd/

A light weight barrel is also an attractive option. Nothing wrong with KAC but I think that is a purchase better made after you have a solid base gun set up correctly with light, sling, and optic and a bunch of ammo mags. As stated before, that is more of an enthusiasts purchase.....your “second car” in you will.

Do you have a lower already? If not, and you really want an SBR lower, you could get the BCM pistol lower, brace, and a BCM 11.5” upper. Then, if you want, form 1 the lower and shoot while you wait. That option would free up almost $1000 to put toward the other stuff.

With the latest ATF messaging and the release of some of these new braces, I’m starting to think having a pistol along with a SBR lower is a good option for many reasons.

[DocMaynard]

Thanks all for the advice! I've budgeted in accessories other than a suppressor. I do plan on SBR'ing the lower and with how short Form 1 wait times are, it couldn't hurt. I don't travel outside the state much at all, and never with guns esp since my closest relatives are in CA.

I'll think hard on the KAC upper and possibly reconsider since a lot of folks are telling me training + ammo > gun. But I'm still open to the question of 11.5" vs 14.5". Is it possible to use one lower for both those lengths?


With the latest ATF messaging and the release of some of these new braces, I’m starting to think having a pistol along with a SBR lower is a good option for many reasons.

Can you elaborate?

[JediGuy]

Thanks all for the advice! I've budgeted in accessories other than a suppressor. I do plan on SBR'ing the lower and with how short Form 1 wait times are, it couldn't hurt. I don't travel outside the state much at all, and never with guns esp since my closest relatives are in CA.

I'll think hard on the KAC upper and possibly reconsider since a lot of folks are telling me training + ammo > gun. But I'm still open to the question of 11.5" vs 14.5". Is it possible to use one lower for both those lengths?

To directly answer this last question: Yes, you can use both uppers on any standard AR15 lower receiver. That’s part of the beauty of AR’s. So, you could get one basic (Colt, BCM) or really nice lower (Radian ADAC, LMT MARS-L, CMT) receiver, then two different length upper receivers.

If I may add, I would encourage purchasing as a pistol first with an SBA3 brace, then see if you ever really want to file as an SBR. I have an SBR that is my “primary,” and it does limit my movement to training classes out of state. I end up dropping my upper onto my wife’s pistol lower for that and it’s annoying.

[Biggy]

To directly answer this last question: Yes, you can use both uppers on any standard AR15 lower receiver. That’s part of the beauty of AR’s. So, you could get one basic (Colt, BCM) or really nice lower (Radian ADAC, LMT MARS-L, CMT) receiver, then two different length upper receivers.

If I may add, I would encourage purchasing as a pistol first with an SBA3 brace, then see if you ever really want to file as an SBR. I have an SBR that is my “primary,” and it does limit my movement to training classes out of state. I end up dropping my upper onto my wife’s pistol lower for that and it’s annoying.

I went this route, it’s nice to have options.

[OldState]

Thanks all for the advice! I've budgeted in accessories other than a suppressor. I do plan on SBR'ing the lower and with how short Form 1 wait times are, it couldn't hurt. I don't travel outside the state much at all, and never with guns esp since my closest relatives are in CA.

I'll think hard on the KAC upper and possibly reconsider since a lot of folks are telling me training + ammo > gun. But I'm still open to the question of 11.5" vs 14.5". Is it possible to use one lower for both those lengths?



Can you elaborate?

After some very confusing and contradictory messaging the ATF now says it’s ok to “occasionally” shoulder a brace. I would suggest reading up on that and pay attention to the date on the content.

And yes uppers are interchangeable. Just don’t put an unpinned 14.5” or 11.5” on a non SBR ....only a pistol lower.

[SteveL]

I always recommend a non-NFA item for your 1st AR. Of the two choices I would say 14.5", assuming that's pinned and welded of course. However, I'm not a fan of pinned muzzle devices and for that reason I say go 16".

[Captains1911]

After some very confusing and contradictory messaging the ATF now says it’s ok to “occasionally” shoulder a brace. I would suggest reading up on that and pay attention to the date on the content.

And yes uppers are interchangeable. Just don’t put an unpinned 14.5” or 11.5” on a non SBR or pistol lower.

What’s the issue with using a 14.5” or 11.5” on a pistol lower?

[OldState]

What’s the issue with using a 14.5” or 11.5” on a pistol lower?

Should have said “only”

[mlberry]

I would suggest 16" barrel. I just can't see saving 1&1/2 in as worth getting entangled with the NFA.

[ViniVidivici]

Yeah I have to say, ever since the braces started coming out, I see no reason to ever SBR. I would hope the .gov never changes their mind on them.

[MistWolf]

Yeah I have to say, ever since the braces started coming out, I see no reason to ever SBR. I would hope the .gov never changes their mind on them.

As good as the SBA3 brace is, I still like the Slimline stock better. After owning pistols and SBRs, I find good reasons for both.

[DocMaynard]

I would suggest 16" barrel. I just can't see saving 1&1/2 in as worth getting entangled with the NFA.

Thanks everyone for the info and advice!

But mlberry and & co, what makes the NFA so crazy now that we have eForms for Form 1? Don't get me wrong, if there was a bill to repeal it, I support it in a heartbeat. But other than the restrictions on interstate travel, it seems very similar to Form 4473 other than the $200 tax stamp and fingerprints. Is there something else I'm missing?

[fledge]

Thanks everyone for the info and advice!

But mlberry and & co, what makes the NFA so crazy now that we have eForms for Form 1? Don't get me wrong, if there was a bill to repeal it, I support it in a heartbeat. But other than the restrictions on interstate travel, it seems very similar to Form 4473 other than the $200 tax stamp and fingerprints. Is there something else I'm missing?

The big one: no one else who is not on your trust can touch it without you around. Not your wife, best friend, dog, or aliens. In many states you can loan your firearms to family and friends. Not NFA items.

[DocMaynard]

The big one: no one else who is not on your trust can touch it without you around. Not your wife, best friend, dog, or aliens. In many states you can loan your firearms to family and friends. Not NFA items.

Yes that is true. I live in Seattle, WA, it's a beautiful state with a lot of gun owners. The city is nice but it's pretty anti-gun. I think those laws already exist in WA where if somebody commits a crime or does something ridiculous with my firearm, I am already liable. If somebody wants to borrow the gun without me around, I have to go to an FFL and fill out a transfer form. It's quite ridiculous but I can't ever see myself leaving this beautiful state.

I do plan on making an SBR some day and I have a trust already since I'm a little paranoid about an AWB happening in WA (since under most proposed AWB legislation, guns can't be transferred even if they are grandfathered in).

[Captains1911]

I just received my BCM 14.5” midlebgth ELW upper yesterday, and I must say I am very pleased with the way it feels and balances compared to my 16” carbines.

[Failure2Stop]

Hi, I'm Jack, and I am the Director of Military and Government Sales at KAC.
You are making a uniquely concise choice by bypassing all of the chafe and going straight to two of the single finest professional use offerings on the market. It takes most of us half a dozen AR platforms before realizing that it's more efficient and effective to get something from a manufacturer that's fully supported and requires only minor preference changes rather than trying to self-manufacture. You're hitting the market at a golden age of AR manufacturers. You almost have to go out of your way to find an unacceptable AR today, and in the cost range of SR-15s, there are a few very strong contenders, such as Hodge Defense, LMT, Radian, and LaRue spring immediately to mind. Each of those hold their own individual strengths, but none can beat a KAC head to head in overall performance if considering accuracy, durability, reliability, shootability, suppressor integration, bilateral controls, trigger, and included back-up sights. About the only thing that we anticipate the everyone will change out is the A2 pistol grip. The included LMT SOPMOD stock is still pretty popular, and if you don't like it you will be able to easily sell it or trade it for your preferred stock. The URX4 M-LOK handguard is one of the most rigid and impact-shift resistant yet lightweight options on the market, and it is as close to a monolithic upper as you can get, without the potential loss of an entire upper receiver unit if the handguard is damaged. The barrel and bolt will be fully serviceable for around 20,000 rounds if you aren't in the habit of abusive full-auto fire.

There is good advice here to budget not only for the base rifle, but for optics, mounts, magazines, support equipment, training, and ammunition as well.

When it comes to choosing between the two, 11.5 or 14.5, I would have to say that the 14.5 is my personal choice for a "do everything" 5.56 carbine. The 11.5 is cool and maneuverable, but I tend to reach for my 14.5 with a 1-6x optic for everything from hog hunting to remote area trekking, and from run-n-gun 2-gun competitions to SPR matches if I'm shooting 5.56.

The 11.5 really stands out for use inside structures (especially with a suppressor) or in other confined spaces, or where distances are primarily inside 200 meters. I've still used mine for both speed shooting type matches and long-range precision matches just to put them to the test, but the shorter handguard reduces some capability with regard to shooting from unconventional support positions and the lower muzzle velocity makes trajectory compensation and wind effect more technically challenging.

11.5, 14.5, or a rifle from someone else, it all comes down to what you want to do and what you're willing to invest.

[LMT Shooter]

I would suggest 16" barrel. I just can't see saving 1&1/2 in as worth getting entangled with the NFA.

This is always my first thought when a 14-1/2" barrel is discussed. I don't get it, but it seems that many who are wiser than I am see good reason to choose it.

[Wake27]

Regarding the options for something cheaper to better fit optics and etc into your budget: I wouldn't do it honestly. If you have the budget to support a KAC from the get go, do it, and buy a budget red dot for another $115 or so until you can rejuvenate that account enough for a better optic. I'm a huge BCM fanboy, and am currently pretty pleased with my Noveske and Geissele rifle, but I do wish I had just gone KAC from the start, several years ago. I'm still very tempted to ditch at least two of my current uppers for a KAC when I get back to VA. As for your actual question and regarding my initial response - I forgot that KAC doesn't P/W their 14.5s so that would change my vote to other for a 16", unless you're willing to pay extra and get stuck with a pinned MD.

[OldState]

Regarding the options for something cheaper to better fit optics and etc into your budget: I wouldn't do it honestly. If you have the budget to support a KAC from the get go, do it, and buy a budget red dot for another $115 or so until you can rejuvenate that account enough for a better optic. I'm a huge BCM fanboy, and am currently pretty pleased with my Noveske and Geissele rifle, but I do wish I had just gone KAC from the start, several years ago. I'm still very tempted to ditch at least two of my current uppers for a KAC when I get back to VA. As for your actual question and regarding my initial response - I forgot that KAC doesn't P/W their 14.5s so that would change my vote to other for a 16", unless you're willing to pay extra and get stuck with a pinned MD.

Just so the OP understands that there are “cheaper” options that go not sacrifice quality. You don’t need a Mercedes G Wagon AMG to get to work in the snow if it means you have to call our sick because you don’t have gas money. Especially when there are equally reliable options at 1/3 the cost. That is of course unless you have a very large budget....which he doesn’t seem to have.

Some of the OPs questions are very similar to questions I asked when I was very new to serious “fighting” rifles. After my first few posts I realized I didn’t know what I didn’t know and decided to slow down, research, and reassess. I ended up going in a slightly different direction and am very happy in hindsight I did.

To the OP, you are on the right forum to get the best advise. KACs Dir of Mil and Gov sales just responded to your thread! There are a ton of very knowledgeable people here that forgot more about ARs this morning than I have ever known.

Take your time and research before you spend your cash. You won’t regret it.

[Wake27]

Just so the OP understands that there are “cheaper” options that go not sacrifice quality. You don’t need a Mercedes G Wagon AMG to get to work in the snow if it means you have to call our sick because you don’t have gas money. Especially when there are equally reliable options at 1/3 the cost.

Very true, and when I had problems with my Noveske upper in the last two years, I wondered why I ever spent money like that when my BCMs have done everything I’ve ever wanted. But, at least for me, I’m willing to bet that going straight KAC and nothing else would’ve ended up with a lot less wasted money.


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[mlberry]

Again, just speaking for myself, a saving of 1 & 1/2 in of barrel length is not worth $200, fingerprints, registration and all the other NFA hoops. If you want to do it fine, but to me it seems like flirting with a felony. It's way too easy to put that SBR on the wrong receiver.

[Captains1911]

Again, just speaking for myself, a saving of 1 & 1/2 in of barrel length is not worth $200, fingerprints, registration and all the other NFA hoops. If you want to do it fine, but to me it seems like flirting with a felony. It's way too easy to put that SBR on the wrong receiver.

Or just pin and weld a muzzle device and not worry about any of that.

[Mygrainman]

As much as I love me some KAC... Same money you can get several options and a pile of ammo to get a feel for what you really like.
For me, after dozens of builds and buys,if I could only keep 2(5.56 anyway),
....it would be (1)an 11.5” SBR, and (2)18” SPR.
Once you go KAC you will never go back, so be careful not to spoil yourself with your fist taste. It’ll get real spensive down the road.

[DocMaynard]

Thank you everyone for the advice and time! It's incredible to get so much advice from folks you don't even know. More so, I'm incredibly surprised to get a reply back from someone at KAC— esp the director of military and govt sales.

I'll take more time to research other brands but I'm pretty set on getting a 14.5" or a 16" barrel at this point. Leaning more towards 14.5" with a stamped lower. Nevertheless, I'll continue to do more research and look around the forum! I have to say though, there is some sense of urgency in getting the best since my state (WA) w/ a Democrat majority is strongly considering an AWB come January/Feb.

[ViniVidivici]

I hear ya. I'm in WA state as well, sure don't like the way the idiocracy is headed here. I also am aquiring everything I can. Lots of good deals going on locally.

[Mygrainman]

Washingtonian here also... I was at a Pawn Shop doing a transfer the other day, and someone evidently was feeling the panic if 1639 and had ordered 300 lower receivers online and had them shipped there. He had to make an appointment for his transfers..$21 for the 1st and $5ea for the other 299. $1500 just in transfer fees!

[daddyusmaximus]

If you are planning on going SBR in the future anyway, the worrying about not getting involved with the ATF is a moot point... it's gonna happen. That said... Start with the pistol lower.

I did it backwards, and form 1ed a bare receiver, then sat on my hands waiting for the stamp...

Even if you don't travel to other states, some laws look at pistols differently than rifles (SBR). It was for this reason, and the traveling that I decided to add a pistol lower to my SBR. Mine is 11.3", but I have the SBR lower, and the pistol lower. It's also in .300 Blackout, as only my 16" is a 5.56. I do plan on an 11.5" 5.56 upper one day as well. I can go anywhere now and handgun laws apply. With two lowers, you could add a second 14.5" or 16" upper (or 11.5" if you get the 14.5 first) and just use whatever one suits your needs at the time.

In the meanwhile, If you start with the pistol lower first, you shoot, train, have fun, while you wait. With the SBA3 brace, there is little in lost functionality.

Same 11.3" upper on both SBR, and pistol lowers.

https://i.imgur.com/NG3rK7y.jpg

[JediGuy]

Washingtonian here also... I was at a Pawn Shop doing a transfer the other day, and someone evidently was feeling the panic if 1639 and had ordered 300 lower receivers online and had them shipped there. He had to make an appointment for his transfers..$21 for the 1st and $5ea for the other 299. $1500 just in transfer fees!


I’m just interested in what brand he bought.

[Tigereye]

Washingtonian here also... I was at a Pawn Shop doing a transfer the other day, and someone evidently was feeling the panic if 1639 and had ordered 300 lower receivers online and had them shipped there. He had to make an appointment for his transfers..$21 for the 1st and $5ea for the other 299. $1500 just in transfer fees!

And, $30,000 for the lowers if $100 each. Wow!

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

And, $30,000 for the lowers if $100 each. Wow!

I'd bet they were Anderson or PSA.

[Mygrainman]

There were several deals for Black Friday $40-$50

[MistWolf]

And, $30,000 for the lowers if $100 each. Wow!

If you're paying $100 for a lower, you're doing it wrong.

Last time I had a receiver transferred at a Washington FFL, the FFL by state law, had to collect state tax on the total invoice.

[kukworld]

Go with the KAC first your first rifle. You won’t regret it. Even though it’s more than BCM ($1000) and Daniel Defense ($700), but it’s worthy it...why? Because it comes with iron sights, and also you don’t need to spend extra $250 to upgrade your trigger. It also comes with rail cover and vertical grip that you don’t need to spend extra money on it. Lastly it comes with H2 buffer should you decide to run suppressor later on. KAC parts are expensive to begin with, if you added those “accessories” you are not that far off BCM or DD.
If you like KAC, then buy KAC. If you buy other brand first, you may end up with KAC eventually, but you end up spend way more (by selling your rifle)

As for 11.5 vs 14.5, it depends on if you are planning to shoot it suppresses or not, if yes, get the 11.5 then don’t look back. If no, then ask yourself what type of optic you planning to put on? If you planning to put on red dot/eotech then 11.5. If LVPO such as 1-6, 1-8, 14.5 might be better option.



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[Mr. Goodtimes]

Thanks all for the advice! I've budgeted in accessories other than a suppressor. I do plan on SBR'ing the lower and with how short Form 1 wait times are, it couldn't hurt. I don't travel outside the state much at all, and never with guns esp since my closest relatives are in CA.

I'll think hard on the KAC upper and possibly reconsider since a lot of folks are telling me training + ammo > gun. But I'm still open to the question of 11.5" vs 14.5". Is it possible to use one lower for both those lengths?



Can you elaborate?

Spend some time doing some well thought out shooting but... people put way to much emphasis on going to fantasy operator camp. According to this board the only way you can learn to work a gun well is by attending a celebrity instructor fantasy gun camp.

If you can afford to put quality optics, lights etc on it... Buy the KAC, the only people on here advocating you don’t buy a KAC are people who don’t own one and never will because they’re poor.

14.5” is a great general purpose barrel length... if you’re doing a lot of door to door, murder on sight CQB work then 11.5. If you’re only going to own ONE rifle.. I think it’s hard to beat a 14.5 for versatility.




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[scottryan]

OP,

You need to buy a factory built KAC rifle in 16" barrel length.

There are several posts in this thread full of BS.

A factory built rifle is/would be a grandfathered assault weapon should the assault weapons ban return.

Building a gun from a stripped lower is not a grandfathered AW.

Do not get a pinned flash hider. They are nearly impossible to remove without a great deal of messing around and lower the value of your gun. They lock to into a configuration that cannot be easily changed in the future.

If you have the money to spend, I would just go out and buy some combination of 11.5", 14.5", 16", and 18" KAC LPR and then an 16" or 20" SR-25 and skip all the BS with the other brands. I'd even go take out a loan and buy all of them right now because the democrats are going to return in 2020 and it isn't going to pretty.

The KAC URX4 is the best handguard on the market. It is stiff and slim. Uses no stupid muffler clamp style attachment that can squirm used by most other lesser brands.

You cannot build a KAC quality level rifle for less money.

[kerplode]

A factory built rifle is/would be a grandfathered assault weapon should the assault weapons ban return.

Building a gun from a stripped lower is not a grandfathered AW.

Lol, wut?

A - What makes you think there will even be grandfathering on AW2? I don't think that's a safe assumption at all.

B - That's not how it worked for AW1...If it was lawfully owned and configured as an "AW" on the date of enactment, it was grandfathered. Didn't matter where it came from or who made it.

KAC is great, but going into debt to buy 14 rifles because the Dems are coming in 2020 is dumb. If they have their way, his $30k of KAC will be just as illegal as my $1000 BCM.

[TMS951]

For give for not reading all the responses. So this may have been said, but I’ll say it again.

I would get an 11.5” over a 14.5”. I’d build a pistol lower and submit a form 1 to sbr it.

For your ‘first’ AR I’d buy a 16” sr15 complete rifle. Form 1 that lower and buy an 11.5” KAC upper down the rd after you get your tax stamp. LPVO on the 16” and red dot on the 11.5”

The concussion and blast from an 11.5” is not that bad imo.

[kukworld]

I have SR-15 11.5 mod 1, and LPR mod 2. I’m planning to add 11.5 or 14.5 mod 2 into my collection but I still can’t decided which 1 I want...my gut feeling tells to get 14.5, since I already have 11.5 mod 1, but for some reason I always go back to checking 11.5 mod 2


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[scottryan]

Lol, wut?

A - What makes you think there will even be grandfathering on AW2? I don't think that's a safe assumption at all.

Because history would be supporting my position. There have been several gun bans. All of them allowed grandfathering.




B - That's not how it worked for AW1...If it was lawfully owned and configured as an "AW" on the date of enactment, it was grandfathered. Didn't matter where it came from or who made it.



No way to prove that. People will not pay preban prices for a home built "preban." Stripped "preban" lowers are not preban under the federal AWB.

You can't take a unbuilt virgin "preban" lower and configure it as a preban gun during the AWB between Sept 14 1994 and Sept 13 2004

[kerplode]

Ok, sure. But now you're assuming that AW2 will allow transfers of grandfathered AWs. Recent history doesn't support that assumption quite as well. And what if "grandfathering" comes at the cost of registration? Point is, there's no way to know and going into debt trying to game some value increase on some future AWB is silly.

Look, don't get me wrong...KAC is great gear. If one wants KAC and can afford it, knock yourself out. Do me one favor, though. Set aside enough money to buy a shitload of ammo and go shoot the piss out of it. If it goes in the crusher at some point in the future at least you'll have enjoyed it.

[scottryan]

Ok, sure. But now you're assuming that AW2 will allow transfers of grandfathered AWs. Recent history doesn't support that assumption quite as well.

We never have had a gun ban where previously transferable guns became non transferable.

[kerplode]

We never have had a gun ban where previously transferable guns became non transferable.

I can't transfer my "high-cap" mags...

We'll see what I'll be able to transfer this time next year.

As they say in finance...Past performance does not guarantee future results.

[scottryan]

I can't transfer my "high-cap" mags...

We'll see what I'll be able to transfer this time next year.

As they say in finance...Past performance does not guarantee future returns.


What I said was we never had a gun ban at the federal level which prevented transferring of already existing transferable guns.

[kerplode]

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

[scottryan]

Past performance does not guarantee future results.


Past legal precedence has weight in court.

[DocMaynard]

Thanks all! It seems like this thread has taken a life of its own.

Unfortunately, it's too late in buying a prebuilt rifle. I've already ordered myself a KAC SR-15 lower receiver.

That said, I'm not really aware of the federal AWB not allowing rifles "built" to not be grandfathered in. I don't know how you would even be able to tell what was built from upper/lower receivers at home and out of the factory especially if both components are from the same manufacturer. I'm more concerned with a state level AWB here in Washington—last session they introduced it. It had a grandfathering clause and prevented transfers unless it was to someone out of state or to the police for destruction. This year, they plan in introducing a "high-capacity" magazine ban and an AWB. Not sure if they'll have time to do both with our short session but lots of Democrats wanting to run for governor/president wanting to prove themselves. Anyways...

As for optics, I'm considering getting a scalarworks mount with an Aimpoint T2 or something else. Still TBD. Like I said before, planning on a general purpose rifle to train with, defend myself, shtf, and to just shoot the hell out of for as long as I can :)

[OldState]

If you can afford to put quality optics, lights etc on it... Buy the KAC, the only people on here advocating you don’t buy a KAC are people who don’t own one and never will because they’re poor.
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Not quite. I think you should reread the OPs first posts. HE stated that HE was working on a budget. Buying a KAC and not having enough cash left over to buy a sling, optic, ammo, etc is a poor choice.

I’m sure there are plenty people who can afford a KAC but chose to spend the money in other ways. Are you implying the OP will get twice 2.5x the reliability, accuracy, or what ever for the extra cash? Is it worth going without an optic and ammo to do so?


As for AWB2, hopefully SCOTUS will weigh in finally....but that should be another thread.

[kerplode]

Yeah, sorry about the derail... :-)

You're definitely on the path towards a really nice rifle...Enjoy the hell out of it!

[Gunsnguitars]

14.5" in 5.56, or 11.5" in . 300 blk.

[Wake27]

Thanks all! It seems like this thread has taken a life of its own.

Unfortunately, it's too late in buying a prebuilt rifle. I've already ordered myself a KAC SR-15 lower receiver.

That said, I'm not really aware of the federal AWB not allowing rifles "built" to not be grandfathered in. I don't know how you would even be able to tell what was built from upper/lower receivers at home and out of the factory especially if both components are from the same manufacturer. I'm more concerned with a state level AWB here in Washington—last session they introduced it. It had a grandfathering clause and prevented transfers unless it was to someone out of state or to the police for destruction. This year, they plan in introducing a "high-capacity" magazine ban and an AWB. Not sure if they'll have time to do both with our short session but lots of Democrats wanting to run for governor/president wanting to prove themselves. Anyways...

As for optics, I'm considering getting a scalarworks mount with an Aimpoint T2 or something else. Still TBD. Like I said before, planning on a general purpose rifle to train with, defend myself, shtf, and to just shoot the hell out of for as long as I can :)

Make sure you check out the on going general purpose optic thread if you haven’t already. I have a T-2 in a Scalarworks mount and it’s stupid light and handy, but I’m becoming a huge believer in LPVOs, unless specific situations require something lighter. You can’t go wrong either way though.


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[vicious_cb]

Not quite. I think you should reread the OPs first posts. HE stated that HE was working on a budget. Buying a KAC and not having enough cash left over to buy a sling, optic, ammo, etc is a poor choice.

I’m sure there are plenty people who can afford a KAC but chose to spend the money in other ways. Are you implying the OP will get twice 2.5x the reliability, accuracy, or what ever for the extra cash? Is it worth going without an optic and ammo to do so?


As for AWB2, hopefully SCOTUS will weigh in finally....but that should be another thread.

I have re-read the OPs posts. No where does he mention working within a budget, in fact its the opposite since he states he has allocated funds for accessories and ammo. If anything it seems the OP is looking for the best out of the box AR.

My advice to the OP is to the buy the BEST quality rifle you can AFFORD and he couldn't do any better than choosing a KAC rifle(maybe a Hodge). If you are worried about AWBs then go with non-NFA items since it adds additional complexity.

In regards to 14.5" vs 16", again pinning a muzzle device will add more hassle if you decide to have your barrel worked on. Typically for a persons 1st AR, they are still figuring out what they want in a rifle and that includes muzzle devices.

[Gen Sherman]

Your first AR? Go 14.5 and stay away from the hassles of NFA/ATF.

When the day comes and you want a can or SBR, then go to trouble/expense of a gun trust.

But, if SBR's are you fancy, why not start with a 10.5 AR pistol?? No NFA/ATF hassles.

Build your own? Get a lower that is NOT classed/serialed by maker as a rifle to begin with. That way you can have the choice of
a AR pistol or rifle.

You can look around and get a KAC rifle new or used. If you go rifle and go SBR, I highly suggest
a gun trust prior to going for your stamp and register it in your trust. MUCH easier in the long
term and less hassles. You can assign trustee's and pass it to your son without more paperwork/money
involved.

[Gen Sherman]

Thanks all! It seems like this thread has taken a life of its own.

Unfortunately, it's too late in buying a prebuilt rifle. I've already ordered myself a KAC SR-15 lower receiver.

That said, I'm not really aware of the federal AWB not allowing rifles "built" to not be grandfathered in. I don't know how you would even be able to tell what was built from upper/lower receivers at home and out of the factory especially if both components are from the same manufacturer. I'm more concerned with a state level AWB here in Washington—last session they introduced it. It had a grandfathering clause and prevented transfers unless it was to someone out of state or to the police for destruction. This year, they plan in introducing a "high-capacity" magazine ban and an AWB. Not sure if they'll have time to do both with our short session but lots of Democrats wanting to run for governor/president wanting to prove themselves. Anyways...

As for optics, I'm considering getting a scalarworks mount with an Aimpoint T2 or something else. Still TBD. Like I said before, planning on a general purpose rifle to train with, defend myself, shtf, and to just shoot the hell out of for as long as I can :)
The manufacturer assigns serial numbers to the LOWER receiver. If the maker did not
ship the lower as a rifle, then you have a choice.

My last build was a Colt lower which Colt sold through retailer. It never had a upper when
it left the factory. So, I bought the lower and it became a AR pistol (in 5.56). Non NFA. But,
I'm looking for .300 upper now for addition of a can. If I change the stock to a rifle stock,
it WILL become NFA and it will be added to my gun trust.

[MistWolf]

The manufacturer assigns serial numbers to the LOWER receiver. If the maker did not
ship the lower as a rifle, then you have a choice.

My last build was a Colt lower which Colt sold through retailer. It never had a upper when
it left the factory. So, I bought the lower and it became a AR pistol (in 5.56). Non NFA. But,
I'm looking for .300 upper now for addition of a can. If I change the stock to a rifle stock,
it WILL become NFA and it will be added to my gun trust.

Keep the pistol lower as a pistol lower. If you want to do an SBR, get a second lower and SBR that. Or, get a Colt 6933.

[Freiheit]

I made a poor decision when buying my first AR. Through the years my preferences have changed and my builds have also. As a Type 7 FFL I manufacture (according to the ATF, assemble if you ask me off the record) just about every configuration imaginable. My experiences have allowed me to build what a client wants by listening to their needs. I live in a rural area, so most of my clients want to hunt with their AR's and I build a lot of 16"-20" rifles. What I enjoy building is light weight battle carbines with 14.5" barrels. Many here have suggested not going through the SBR/Stamp route. I agree, unless you intend to use a suppressor A LOT. I'm a huge fan of the 14.5", pinned flash hider barrels. When I can put a rig together with that barrel that comes in at @ 5.5 lbs naked, I get real stoked. I've done much tactical training and this combination works real well for what I practice. Most of my clients buy more than one AR. Different calibers and different purposes. To anyone buying their first AR, get what you practically need. Be safe and have fun!

[Mr. Goodtimes]

OP,

You need to buy a factory built KAC rifle in 16" barrel length.

There are several posts in this thread full of BS.

A factory built rifle is/would be a grandfathered assault weapon should the assault weapons ban return.

Building a gun from a stripped lower is not a grandfathered AW.

Do not get a pinned flash hider. They are nearly impossible to remove without a great deal of messing around and lower the value of your gun. They lock to into a configuration that cannot be easily changed in the future.

If you have the money to spend, I would just go out and buy some combination of 11.5", 14.5", 16", and 18" KAC LPR and then an 16" or 20" SR-25 and skip all the BS with the other brands. I'd even go take out a loan and buy all of them right now because the democrats are going to return in 2020 and it isn't going to pretty.

The KAC URX4 is the best handguard on the market. It is stiff and slim. Uses no stupid muffler clamp style attachment that can squirm used by most other lesser brands.

You cannot build a KAC quality level rifle for less money.

This is literally some of the dumbest, worst, most autistic advice I’ve ever seen on this board.


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[Mr. Goodtimes]

Not quite. I think you should reread the OPs first posts. HE stated that HE was working on a budget. Buying a KAC and not having enough cash left over to buy a sling, optic, ammo, etc is a poor choice.

I’m sure there are plenty people who can afford a KAC but chose to spend the money in other ways. Are you implying the OP will get twice 2.5x the reliability, accuracy, or what ever for the extra cash? Is it worth going without an optic and ammo to do so?


As for AWB2, hopefully SCOTUS will weigh in finally....but that should be another thread.

He said somewhere he has money budgeted for accessories. Most of us are working on a budget... in reality though the cost of a rifle and accessories are minute in the long run. When people say they can’t afford nice things it’s not usually that they can’t actually afford something nice, it’s that they don’t want to save another month or two for it.


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[Five_Point_Five_Six]

When people say they can’t afford nice things it’s not usually that they can’t actually afford something nice, it’s that they don’t want to save another month or two for it

Precisely. The need for immediate satisfaction rather than having a little patience is probably why so many low grade rifles are sitting in people's safe. Another month and a few extra shifts was the difference in me buying my first Colt vs some other cheaper rifle. During that month and extra shifts I wondered if it would truly be worth it for me as a non LEO or mil guy. It was.

[OldState]

I have re-read the OPs posts. No where does he mention working within a budget, in fact its the opposite since he states he has allocated funds for accessories and ammo. If anything it seems the OP is looking for the best out of the box AR.

My advice to the OP is to the buy the BEST quality rifle you can AFFORD and he couldn't do any better than choosing a KAC rifle(maybe a Hodge). If you are worried about AWBs then go with non-NFA items since it adds additional complexity.

In regards to 14.5" vs 16", again pinning a muzzle device will add more hassle if you decide to have your barrel worked on. Typically for a persons 1st AR, they are still figuring out what they want in a rifle and that includes muzzle devices.

In his very first post he wrote “Unfortunately, with the ATF wait times and my budget being the way it is, I don't see myself getting a suppressor for at least a year. ”

My initial responce to imply he would have that in his budget if he wasn’t set on getting $1900 Gucci upper for his very first AR.

[t1tan]

This is literally some of the dumbest, worst, most autistic advice I’ve ever seen on this board.


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Was going to respond myself but this sums it up well.

[scottryan]

This is literally some of the dumbest, worst, most autistic advice I’ve ever seen on this board.


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You can think what you want. I am right. You aren't.

Refute what i said. You can't.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

You can think what you want. I am right. You aren't.

Refute what i said. You can't.

Encouraging someone to go ~$15,000 in debt to buy a bunch of rifles he doesn’t need because there’s a possibility they might, maybe, possibly get banned is not only stupid, it’s reckless. What happens when they don’t get banned and that sweet, sweet 18% interest hits?


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[ClangClang]

A factory built rifle is/would be a grandfathered assault weapon should the assault weapons ban return.



Unless you work as an aide in Chuck Schumer's office and are tasked with writing the language for the next AWB he's going to try and sponsor, you're literally making claims from thin air. Multiple states have recently passed various AWB's with no grandfathering clause and they have withstood appeals through State Supreme and Circuit Court. Further, there is nothing to indicate that a factory built rifle would be more (or less) "safe" from an AWB. Pure conjecture, and frankly terrible advice.

That said - your comments on P&W uppers were correct. And if you can, having the full SR-15 Mod 2 family (11.5, 14.5, 16, 18) is a wonderful thing. But that sure ain't in the cards for OP today, nor should it be.

[scottryan]

Encouraging someone to go ~$15,000 in debt to buy a bunch of rifles he doesn’t need because there’s a possibility they might, maybe, possibly get banned is not only stupid, it’s reckless. What happens when they don’t get banned and that sweet, sweet 18% interest hits?


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A bank loan doesn’t have 18% interest.

[Failure2Stop]

http://trailtosummit.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/offtopic.jpg

[Outlander Systems]

https://i.ibb.co/H7Nmn4N/ED62957-F-0-A68-44-F1-9-A31-E70-CF2-E9-E0-A2.jpg


Encouraging someone to go ~$15,000 in debt to buy a bunch of rifles he doesn’t need because there’s a possibility they might, maybe, possibly get banned is not only stupid, it’s reckless. What happens when they don’t get banned and that sweet, sweet 18% interest hits?


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[RobertTheTexan]

A bank loan doesn’t have 18% interest.

I really don’t think that’s the point.

Just sayin’.


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[turnburglar]

Do you have a porsche GT2 already?


That's the equivalent of a sr-15.

There's absolutely ZERO reason why a new shooter needs one. You'd be just as well served with ANY manufacuers rifle.

Besides just bragging to your friends that its a legit SR-15, you wont notice the differnce from a Colt or BCM or even PSA as a new shooter.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Do you have a porsche GT2 already?


That's the equivalent of a sr-15.

There's absolutely ZERO reason why a new shooter needs one. You'd be just as well served with ANY manufacuers rifle.

Besides just bragging to your friends that its a legit SR-15, you wont notice the differnce from a Colt or BCM or even PSA as a new shooter.

This is so wrong on so many levels. Please never post here again.


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[Five_Point_Five_Six]

Do you have a porsche GT2 already?


That's the equivalent of a sr-15.

There's absolutely ZERO reason why a new shooter needs one. You'd be just as well served with ANY manufacuers rifle.

Besides just bragging to your friends that its a legit SR-15, you wont notice the differnce from a Colt or BCM or even PSA as a new shooter.

55010

[Wake27]

Do you have a porsche GT2 already?


That's the equivalent of a sr-15.

There's absolutely ZERO reason why a new shooter needs one. You'd be just as well served with ANY manufacuers rifle.

Besides just bragging to your friends that its a legit SR-15, you wont notice the differnce from a Colt or BCM or even PSA as a new shooter.

There's also zero reason why anyone needs any AR-15, right?

[Outlander Systems]

OP,

Get the SR-15. Go with a 16” and forget the NFA headache.

Add ammo.

theend.wav

[amac]

Op, congrats on your purchase! You can't go wrong with a KAC lower. As a civilian shooter myself, I was lured by the name brand and bought a KAC. I sold the upper, SBR'd the lower and eight years later couldn't be happier! It's bad ass, rock solid and erased any need to search for something better. Buy once, cry once. I will add, if this is your first AR, it won't be your last!

As for the 11.5" vs 14.5" or 16" question... As everyone has advised, if you want an SBR, register your new lower as a pistol and then consider if you want to proceed with the NFA process. Which length is ideal? If you've shot AR's, then you know the 14.5 and longer run on a mid-length gas system. The benefits of a longer platform are increased long range accuracy, slightly reduced felt recoil and more rail space to mount "stuff". Benefits of the shorter barrel are weight and maneuverability. A shorter barrel means you have a carbine length gas system and as a result, have a bit more felt recoil, less space for accessories and may feel cramped for hand space. YMMV. I don't find the noise to be a factor until you mount a muzzle break instead of a flash hider. The port design of the breaks make for a loud bark and your shooting neighbors eat the blowout! I don't like pinning because that limits future decisions on changes you may want to make. Consider carefully. Definitely add a can!

Personally, I'd consider what type optic I want to run as a major consideration to barrel length. If you prefer a red dot, then shorter makes more sense to me. Red dots are quick and SBR's swing side to side more smoothly, in my opinion. The combo can't be beat! If you prefer an optic like a 1-6, then the longer barrel makes sense. There are lots of great magnified optics that give you true 1 power for CQB application and can zoom out to give you 300 yard accuracy. A 14.5" barrel with a 1-6 scope is a great all around rifle.

Another consideration is a 12.5" barrel. I have a 12.5 on my KAC lower with a 1-4 optic on top and feel this does everything an AR needs to do. I've done everything with the setup from CQB training to 3-gun competition and easily reached 300+ yard targets. My research showed this to be the shortest barrel length to maintain effective ballistic performance. Other, more experienced shooters may differ, but it has done everything I need it to do. Just another length to consider if you plan to go short.

You inquired about swapping uppers on lowers. Yes, uppers can be dropped on lowers, but in my experience, reliability may be an issue. My 10.5" upper will not run reliably on my 12.5" setups lower. The reverse is also true. You may find the need to tune your lower to handle the gas pressure created by your upper. For me, this has created dedicated lower/upper combo's. YMMV.

Good luck on your quest. Read up before you buy and be sure to check the EE for the rest of your build. Everyone here started where you are and through trial and error have decided to sell an upper, lower, trigger, optic, hand rail, etc... You can find like new AR parts and accessories for a fraction of the cost of new. I buy and sell all my AR stuff on the EE here for that very reason.

amac

[DocMaynard]

Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it!


I sold the upper, SBR'd the lower and eight years later couldn't be happier! It's bad ass, rock solid and erased any need to search for something better. Buy once, cry once. I will add, if this is your first AR, it won't be your last!

What motivated you to sell the upper? Or I should ask, what did you end up selling and replacing it with? :)


As for the 11.5" vs 14.5" or 16" question... As everyone has advised, if you want an SBR, register your new lower as a pistol and then consider if you want to proceed with the NFA process. Which length is ideal? If you've shot AR's, then you know the 14.5 and longer run on a mid-length gas system. The benefits of a longer platform are increased long range accuracy, slightly reduced felt recoil and more rail space to mount "stuff". Benefits of the shorter barrel are weight and maneuverability. A shorter barrel means you have a carbine length gas system and as a result, have a bit more felt recoil, less space for accessories and may feel cramped for hand space. YMMV. I don't find the noise to be a factor until you mount a muzzle break instead of a flash hider. The port design of the breaks make for a loud bark and your shooting neighbors eat the blowout! I don't like pinning because that limits future decisions on changes you may want to make. Consider carefully. Definitely add a can!

Thanks, I certainly plan on registering it as a pistol lower and then considering carefully of going through with the NFA process. It'll be in a gun trust anyways since it makes passing guns on down to the next generation much easier as my state requires some stringent requirements for transfer


Personally, I'd consider what type optic I want to run as a major consideration to barrel length. If you prefer a red dot, then shorter makes more sense to me. Red dots are quick and SBR's swing side to side more smoothly, in my opinion. The combo can't be beat! If you prefer an optic like a 1-6, then the longer barrel makes sense. There are lots of great magnified optics that give you true 1 power for CQB application and can zoom out to give you 300 yard accuracy. A 14.5" barrel with a 1-6 scope is a great all around rifle.

I'm debating this myself. I like the quick sight acquisition that the red dot gives. I'm still researching and debating the red dot vs LPVO. I've been realizing that there's so much you can do with ARs it's hardly fair to have one gun to do it all. But for a SHTF gun, I do wonder the distance where most engagements occur. Shooting at a 400yd target seems extremely unlikely since it's hard to get a target id at that distance.




You inquired about swapping uppers on lowers. Yes, uppers can be dropped on lowers, but in my experience, reliability may be an issue. My 10.5" upper will not run reliably on my 12.5" setups lower. The reverse is also true. You may find the need to tune your lower to handle the gas pressure created by your upper. For me, this has created dedicated lower/upper combo's. YMMV.


This is a very newbie question but what exactly needs to be tuned on the lower? I know the buffer weights need to be replaced depending on the gas length of the system but does anything else need to be tuned? Which if it's a pain in the ass to tune, it begs the question of what's a good ambi lower I can get other than another SR-15 lower...?

[oldbrowndog]

I'm new here, but I've read this entire thread with some interest because it sounds like me 6 or 7 years ago.

I started with the standard advice. Bought a BCM lower, slapped a 16" FSB upper on it. I was a poor student at the time and even the BCM was a stretch. KAC prices were otherworldly. Eventually hated the FSB and got a BCM 14.5" ELW upper with a pinned A2X. It was fine, but scoped it and wanted better accuracy, and went down the rabbit hole of building/buying ARs.
Long story short, I ended up with an assortment of 5.56 guns in 10.3 - 16" and 2 SBR lowers.

For any serious use, everything but my 300 BO has now been replaced by a SBR'd KAC lower and a pair of KAC uppers - a 14.5" with a 1-8 LPVO and an 11.5" with an Aimpoint RDS. By my math, if I had saved up money and bought KAC from the start instead of churning through a pile of guns/parts, I'd have $8000 extra in my pocket for ammo/optics/training, etc. If you know that you want a serious-use AR and you're willing to wait, save and get what you really want - it'll be cheaper in the long run.

PS. I bought the KAC lower separately and it started as a pistol, so I revert back to a pistol with an SBA3 as necessary for travel/etc.

[OldState]

If you are already down the KAC path I would say continue if you can afford it.

It’s important to keep in mind though that the concept of “working your way up” to KAC isn’t really the best way to think about it in my opinion. There are MANY serious shooters who can afford the best of the best and still run Colts, BCM, etc. It’s not like people are telling you to buy a cheap pair of skis and if you like skiing get something better. Functionally speaking BCM, Colt, etc are universality considered top tier products in the SME community.

There is “nice to have” and “need to have” and then “very very nice but certainly not need to have” stuff.

By all accounts KAC is extremely nice and durable stuff.

I guess what I’m hoping you understand is that you can quickly reach the point of diminishing returns. The difference between a $500 consumer grade AR and a $900-1000 BCM, Colt, etc set up is pretty big. After that it’s more about the accessories.

[RobertTheTexan]

I'm debating this myself. I like the quick sight acquisition that the red dot gives. I'm still researching and debating the red dot vs LPVO. I've been realizing that there's so much you can do with ARs it's hardly fair to have one gun to do it all. But for a SHTF gun, I do wonder the distance where most engagements occur. Shooting at a 400yd target seems extremely unlikely since it's hard to get a target id at that distance.


Somehow I have a missing post. The number one thing that drives EVERYTHING.
- barrel length
- optic
- buis
- trigger
- stock
- weapon light
- rail
- and more....

All of the above can be driven by purpose

In other words “mission drives the gear.” This is the truest of true statements.

I suppose if someone is building or buying a range toy or a “Hey buddy, look and see what I have!!”

I’m not saying this is you, I’m outlining a couple of examples where I can see all Tactical/purpose-driven sense being discarded.

I believe before a part for a build gets purchased the ol’ mission statement needs to be defined and adhered to. Whenever I’ve bought things without paying attention to that, I ended up with parts I had no use for and ended up selling it giving away. Purpose drives everything!

Of course it’s ok for you to buy whatever, I’m just sharing what I’ve learned building many AR’s. Mistakes and all. Do I see a really good buy and buy a part even though I may not have a project going on? Sure, but it’s usually something. I know I will use or have already used. So the lost I can’t find said.basically: let the purpose drive your build. Especially barrel length and optic since those are two of your questions.


This is a very newbie question but what exactly needs to be tuned on the lower? I know the buffer weights need to be replaced depending on the gas length of the system but does anything else need to be tuned? Which if it's a pain in the ass to tune, it begs the question of what's a good ambi lower I can get other than another SR-15 lower...?
Tuning only happens with your buffer weights and buffer spring and an adjustable gas. Lock if you have.

Some comp triggers are tunable but that’s it.



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[prepare]

For civilian self defense, purpose/mission is pretty clear. Its not like civilians have that many differing rolls. Civilians aren't involved in conducting raids or any type of offensive op or overwatch. You hear a bump in the night and you grab your AR. Or you detect a threat at distance via your security system. Pretty simple. Covers 99.9% of your mission.

[oldbrowndog]

...
It’s important to keep in mind though that the concept of “working your way up” to KAC isn’t really the best way to think about it in my opinion. There are MANY serious shooters who can afford the best of the best and still run Colts, BCM, etc. It’s not like people are telling you to buy a cheap pair of skis and if you like skiing get something better. Functionally speaking BCM, Colt, etc are universality considered top tier products in the SME community.
...

I guess what I’m hoping you understand is that you can quickly reach the point of diminishing returns. The difference between a $500 consumer grade AR and a $900-1000 BCM, Colt, etc set up is pretty big. After that it’s more about the accessories.

I would 100% agree with this. The bigger point of my post was get what you want the first time, even if you have to wait and save. I drooled over KACs when shopping for my first AR, but they were over my immediately-available price range. Being patient and saving up would've saved me a ton of money over time.

[OldState]

I would 100% agree with this. The bigger point of my post was get what you want the first time, even if you have to wait and save. I drooled over KACs when shopping for my first AR, but they were over my immediately-available price range. Being patient and saving up would've saved me a ton of money over time.

I agree and have always followed that rule myself. You also seem to have understood needs vs wants. The OP seems new to serious ARs so I’m hoping he understands that too.

Not sure he had the KAC Lower when the thread started so now that he does might as well continue.

[amac]

Op, I bought a complete SR-15, shot it while I was waiting on the tax stamp for the lower. Once that came in six months or so later, I sold the upper and purchased my 12.5” upper through the EE. It’s a Vltor MUR with a KAC URX quad rail and stainless Noveske barrel. It’s a tank, but runs reliable and shoots super smooth. I would have swapped the rail years ago, but Knights uses a proprietary barrel nut AND wrench. The wrench cost over $100, so I decided it was “stuck” to the upper receiver! ;). I’m glad I kept it because I’ve determined I prefer the quad rail feel over the slimmer, flat tubular rails. I recently sold a BCM KMR off my 10.5” and replaced that with a Centurion quad rail. Noticeably heavier than the KMR, but shoots so much better with the little bit of added weight.

I’d suggest a Vltor MUR upper for your KAC lower. The fit is tight. The lines of the MUR look really good (to me) and it’s a quality, “thick-walled” forged piece to compliment your KAC lower. I believe there’s one for sale on the EE. You should buy it before I do!

Tuning was explained by another poster. SBR’s can be unreliable at first. I swapped the buffer spring and bought several different buffer weights to find the combo that cycled reliably and gave me the feedback I was looking for. I assume it’s mostly driven by the amount of gas coming from your gas block. Adjustable gas blocks are one way to address that issue. They cost more and reviews are pretty mixed. Neither of my SBR’s use adjustable blocks and both run fine suppressed or unsuppressed.

Again, congrats on your purchase and good luck with your build!

[Failure2Stop]

The only thing you will need to "tune" with a KAC upper on a KAC lower is to install the included buffer.
All others are suspect.

[ARGuy87]

My first was a 14.5" ar. Still have it, great all around rifle

[ajyaros]

14.5. I’ve done a few and keep going back to 14.5.


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