View Full Version : Bump Stock Final Rule
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5635249/Bump-Stock-Final-Rule.pdf
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12-18-18, 12:59
I see long lines of bump stock owners turning them in to ATF.
NOT.
So much for Trump's hope of re-election.
Doc Safari
12-18-18, 13:16
So much for Trump's hope of re-election.
I think his caving on shutting down the government over the border wall did that all by itself.
The bump stock ban effects a tiny minority of the electorate, sort of like when the Stryker Streetsweeper shotgun was ruled a destructive device.
What is interesting is they changed the legal definition of a machinegun which is in statute!?!?
I think his caving on shutting down the government over the border wall did that all by itself.
The bump stock ban effects a tiny minority of the electorate, sort of like when the Stryker Streetsweeper shotgun was ruled a destructive device.
There are a LOT more BS's in circulation than Streetsweepers, which weren't banned and expected to be destroyed or turned over without remuneration. This goes beyond the 2nd Amendment and constitutionalists are going to have a field day with it.
I'm not saying I absolutely won't vote for him regardless of who the Dems put up, but I damned sure won't vote for him in the primary (as I didn't in 2016).
I do agree that if he caves on the wall, he's also toast on that. If we don't have a substantial set of physical barriers to at least create choke points more easily controlled by CBP in 2019, Trump is done.
What is interesting is they changed the legal definition of a machinegun which is in statute!?!?
They didn't change it, they just reinvented it. :rolleyes:
The bump stock ban effects a tiny minority of the electorate, sort of like when the Stryker Streetsweeper shotgun was ruled a destructive device.
Except -
1) They really were DDs by definition.
2) They were allowed to be registered, not destroyed.
Trump's margins of victory are so tight, he cannot lose a single vote. I too do not see how he gets re-elected given the totality of ****-ups on his part. He seems to be pissing off all voters, one small group at a time.
While I'm mad about the whole thing, I'm actually slightly madder about the "coerced surrender of private property without compensation" than I am from a 2A perspective. Hell even if they were compensating owners.... the owners surrendering their property are only doing so under the threat of action by the State if they don't comply, so that's not legitimate consent to the transaction in my book.
Pretty disgusting and honestly exactly what I've come to expect from this country nowadays.
I dont see this holding up in court. It says right in the first paragraph
shooterof a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull ofthe trigger.
allows the trigger to reset
Blatant, easily quantified co tradiction.
1.its a semi
2. Define continuous firing cycle
3. If it resets, its not a single pull of the trigger.
Also binary triggers are not affected.
SomeOtherGuy
12-18-18, 13:41
The announcement is 157 pages. I skimmed it, and was not surprised to find it 100% BS. It could have been written by Chuck Schumer or his lackeys. A number of meaningful legal questions raised in comments are dismissed out of hand, the obvious meaning being that Trump (or Sessions, but I assume Trump) said "do this" without interest in debate.
FWIW the most legally sound challenges, in my view, are the ex-post-facto law and the regulatory taking without compensation. There is a 2A angle but I think that's weaker than the other objections.
It's signed by acting AG Whittaker, the supposed awesome guy who's going to save the "Q" faithful. You could argue he's merely doing his ministerial duty, but it certainly doesn't look like he's going to stand up to legally problematic, if not downright unconstitutional, orders.
I fearlessly predict litigation on behalf of bump-stock owners and manufacturers, ultimately resulting in no change whatsoever to the rule and its requirements. Various courts have issued injunctions against Trump doing things that he had a 100% constitutional right to do, so I don't see any court likely to go against an agency action that tramples individual rights. But if I were trying, I'd try in the 5th Circuit.
FWIW the most legally sound challenges, in my view, are the ex-post-facto law and the regulatory taking without compensation.
1) There is no ex-post facto issue. Nobody will be prosecuted for having the stock prior to it being illegal to have.
2) The compensation issue is a little tricker, COTUS is silent, but there are Case Law issues.
Is it important to note that the first sentence reads:
The Department of Justice is amending the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)
Maybe a subtle sign this didn't really please the folks at BATFE?
I fearlessly predict litigation on behalf of bump-stock owners and manufacturers, ultimately resulting in no change whatsoever to the rule and its requirements. Various courts have issued injunctions against Trump doing things that he had a 100% constitutional right to do, so I don't see any court likely to go against an agency action that tramples individual rights. But if I were trying, I'd try in the 5th Circuit.
Agreed, and the biggest impediment will be some publicity seeking internet blog lawyer filing in a poorly chosen district.
Slidefire should file in the 5th with legal guidance from SAF.
I hope not a single one is turned in. Peaceful non compliance should be the status quo from here on out.
I see long lines of bump stock owners turning them in to ATF.
NOT.
If any of you are inclined to surrender your legally purchased private property (Bump Stocks), I have located the official address. You must use the US Government Postal Service Priority Mail large flat box. Send it to:
Donald John Trump, Temporary Custodian
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington, DC 20006
Not to mention now the WH is calling for gun confiscation laws.
Oh yeah, vote for trump they say, he will protect us they say.
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MountainRaven
12-18-18, 14:34
So much for Trump's hope of re-election.
We're a disposable voting block.
Doc Safari
12-18-18, 14:36
Not to mention now the WH is calling for gun confiscation laws.
Link?
Not to mention now the WH is calling for gun confiscation laws.
Oh yeah, vote they say, he will protect us they say.
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Do you have a link to the above statement?
I think he is talking about the White House School Safety Commission’s report - https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/18/white-house-school-safety-report-recommends-gun-confiscation-orders/
Do you have a link to the above statement?https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/18/white-house-school-safety-report-recommends-gun-confiscation-orders/
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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/18/white-house-school-safety-report-recommends-gun-confiscation-orders/
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The president is not pro second amendment. Period. Obama allowed concealed carry in national parks and refused to ban bump stocks. The president said "I want the guns and we'll worry about due process later" and now has implemented gun control that the Obama administration wouldn't. Can you imagine what the GOP would be doing if a democrat at said that and done this? At some point, people need to wake up about this president. Wasn't fooled in 2016. Won't be fooled in 2020.
Oh, and they controlled three branches of government and did nothing on suppressors, nfa, or anything else.
The president is not pro second amendment. Period. Obama allowed concealed carry in national parks and refused to ban bump stocks. The president said "I want the guns and we'll worry about due process later" and now has implemented gun control that the Obama administration wouldn't. Can you imagine what the GOP would be doing if a democrat at said that and done this? At some point, people need to wake up about this president. Wasn't fooled in 2016. Won't be fooled in 2020.
Oh, and they controlled three branches of government and did nothing on suppressors, nfa, or anything else.
I remember when everyone was hyped up because Eric & Donald Trump Jr. were such big proponents of the 2nd Amendment and we'd get Title 1 SBR's & suppressors. I'm ashamed to say I fell for it (or at least the hopes of it). Of course we all know better now. :(
I remember when everyone was hyped up because Eric & Donald Trump Jr. were such big proponents of the 2nd Amendment and we'd get Title 1 SBR's & suppressors. I'm ashamed to say I fell for it (or at least the hopes of it). Of course we all know better now. :(
It does seem like we are being severely disappointed...
Oh yes, anyone sending their bump stocks to the White House via Priority Mail needs to include an invoice for the value of your personal property being surrendered to the government under threat of law. You could also ask for reimbursement of your shipping costs.
Why bother with the local PD or Sheriff's office; send it to whom has issued the proclamation. It's doesn't have to be personal; it's just business and what is due the citizen being deprived of legally purchased private property.
Are we winning yet?
Yes, Hillary is still NOT President.
Yes, Hillary is still NOT President.
Technically that's losing less, which at this point is becoming more and more debatable. :(
Technically that's losing less, which at this point is becoming more and more debatable. :(
We will always loose ground. The only thing we can hope for is to slow down how fast we loose it.
We will always loose ground. The only thing we can hope for is to slow down how fast we loose it.
You are in nj, so of course you think that. But those of us in the free states have seen a lot of wins, especially in the carry department.
Yes, Hillary is still NOT President.
The Republicans in the House and Senate would have (rightfully) fought he tooth and nail and blocked anything she would have done. Instead since it is Trump doing it they bend over and ask for more.
So it takes 157 pages to designate a bump stock as a machine gun??
So what are they hiding in this new ruling??
Havent had a chance to go through it.
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You are in nj, so of course you think that. But those of us in the free states have seen a lot of wins, especially in the carry department.
I mean overall. In the long run, we will loose because we refuse to do anything about the continuous erosion of our liberties. Harken back to the civil war thread, The founders revolted over a 3% [or similar] tax, meanwhile we are paying at least 10 times that, having our rights crapped on and we just keep moving the line in the sand. Unless we make politicians pay for crossing the line in the sand, instead of erasing it and drawing a new one, we will continue to lose. It is why, I believe, we will lose in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfVmzvyYI4
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12-18-18, 16:05
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/lawsuit-challenging-trump-bump-stock-ban
WASHINGTON, D.C. (December 18, 2018) — Today, attorneys for an owner of a “bump-stock” device and three constitutional rights advocacy organizations filed a federal lawsuit against the Trump Administration’s new confiscatory ban on firearm parts, additionally challenging Matthew Whitaker’s legal authority to serve as Acting Attorney General and issue rules without being nominated to the role and confirmed by the Senate or by operation of law. A copy of the court filings can be viewed at www.bumpstockcase.com.
The plaintiffs also filed a motion seeking a temporary injunction to prevent the Trump Administration from implementing and enforcing the new regulation. The lawsuit, captioned as Guedes, et al. v. BATFE, et al., is backed by Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC), Firearms Policy Foundation (FPF), and Madison Society Foundation (MSF), also institutional plaintiffs in the case.
My take: If nothing else this could turn out like the proposed ban on M855 ammunition (best case scenario but unlikely), or at least the lawsuit could make it to the SCOTUS. I don't think the deciding issue will be the legality or not of the bump stocks, but the fact that they are subject to confiscation or destruction without due process or compensation.
jerrysimons
12-18-18, 16:14
So is full auto now a continuous string of fire or more than one shot per trigger pull? :|
So is full auto now a continuous string of fire or more than one shot per trigger pull? :|
It's a continuous string of pulls. Or a continuous pull of strings, I'm not sure which. :confused:
So triggers are ok for now....
Not this doom and gloom like MAC channel said.
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First lawsuit - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/lawsuit-challenging-trump-bump-stock-ban
This is not going to be overturned in court.
This is not going to be overturned in court.
Yep.
There will be early victories, but at full Appeals it will fail, and at SCOTUS it will be 5-4 or 6-3 against.
ramairthree
12-18-18, 19:43
All Trump had to do was be chill on weed, keep stirring up the economy, and hold the line on gun control.
WTF could he not get that a huge percentage of his vote were 2A people not necessarily for him, but against Hillary?
I destroyed my bump stock already. I put a "I'm with her" sticker on it.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-18-18, 20:10
I never liked this guy, so I can't say I'm disappointed. I will only be disappointed if the trump knee-padders continue to support him in the next primary. Hopefully he is impeached and we can get Pence as President before this moron gets Kamala elected.
BoringGuy45
12-18-18, 20:12
Yep.
There will be early victories, but at full Appeals it will fail, and at SCOTUS it will be 5-4 or 6-3 against.
That's what we said about DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago.
That's why the gun rights movement always loses. We give up before we even fight.
lol we all thought a NYC business democrat was going to bw this,messiah of freedom
I never liked this guy, so I can't say I'm disappointed. I will only be disappointed if the trump knee-padders continue to support him in the next primary. Hopefully he is impeached and we can get Pence as President before this moron gets Kamala elected.
Yep. While I have my issues with Pence, at least he has a backbone and is a real Republican.
Yep. While I have my issues with Pence, at least he has a backbone and is a real Republican.
Meh, he’s a tool imo.
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Meh, he’s a tool imo.
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Can't you leave a guy with at least a modicum of hope! Come on man. :suicide:
That's what we said about DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago.
That's why the gun rights movement always loses. We give up before we even fight.
I have not given up, I was making a prediction. As Iwrote in #16, " the biggest impediment will be some publicity seeking internet blog lawyer filing in a poorly chosen district.". Sadly it looks like those attention seeking morons are already filing suit.
I know a LOT of crackheads and none of them really thot that we were entering this new age of liberty and freedom. I was a victim of rose tinted glasses too. I at one point believed Trump was going to send me a free bougie DTF black girl and a CMP XM16E1. oh how foolish I was!
I know a LOT of crackheads and none of them really thot that we were entering this new age of liberty and freedom. I was a victim of rose tinted glasses too. I at one point believed Trump was going to send me a free bougie DTF black girl and a CMP XM16E1. oh how foolish I was!
I didn't expect miracles, I never thought National Receprosity or the Hearing Protection Act would pass. I was just hoping it would stay as is and not get worse [Federally]. I am man enough to admit I was wrong.
Having said that, we did get some good things, we did get Gorsuch and Kavanaugh which may help in this fight. Had Hillary won, the fight would have been over.
As I said earlier, we WILL lose at the end, the best we can do is prolong the enevitable.
I didn't expect miracles, I never thought National Receprosity or the Hearing Protection Act would pass. I was just hoping it would stay as is and not get worse [Federally]. I am man enough to admit I was wrong.
Having said that, we did get some good things, we did get Gorsuch and Kavanaugh which may help in this fight. Had Hillary won, the fight would have been over.
As I said earlier, we WILL loose at the end, the best we can do is prolong the enevitable.
The only losers will be the ones who surrender their firearms and their rights. I for one have no intention of surrendering property or my rights. For my family, my gun rights aren't given by man, and therefore cannot be taken by man, unless you allow it.
LMT Shooter
12-18-18, 21:44
For my family, my gun rights aren't given by man, and therefore cannot be taken by man, unless you allow it.
That is how it is clearly stated in the Declaration of Independence. Sad that everyone doesn't see this truth. I've long believed that the Declaration of Independence is the document that founded our Nation, and that the Constitution merely founded our government.
The Republicans in the House and Senate would have (rightfully) fought he tooth and nail and blocked anything she would have done. Instead since it is Trump doing it they bend over and ask for more.
Senate and House Republicans couldn't even get behind their version of the ACA once Trump opened the door for them and you really think they were going to take on and defeat Hillary? The GOP basically gave Obama two terms by running losers against him and the only promise they made during the Obama Presidency was that they were going to repeal and replace Obamacare.
I think given the fact that we are dealing with a reality TV star, real estate investor and former DNC supporter we are actually doing pretty good all things considered. I don't have any delusions, but we are looking at the loss of BUMP STOCKS...under Obama they went after EVERYTHING, twice. We almost lost EVERYTHING, especially during Harry Reids last minute hail mary attempt when we thought the whole Sandy Hook nonsense had been decided once and for all.
Wish we were solidly on the offensive, going after national reciprocity, deregulated suppressors and striking the sporter clause from the 1968 GCA but sadly that isn't where we are. We are kinda losing and have been on a losing streak ever since a Republican MAJORITY congress successfully amended a permanent reimplementation of the Clinton AW ban in 2004, thankfully the author of that bill killed his own bill rather than see it pass with a poison pill.
The only thing we have really won since that time is the Heller decision and really the NRA and Senate and House Republicans had almost nothing to do with it. Those useless clowns have been mostly continuing to lose through the Bush (43) and Obama administrations. This is nothing new, but it we have to lose something, thankfully it's bump stocks and not EVERY FIREARM with a detachable magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds.
Cry about Bump Stocks all you like, I remember when P Mags were selling for $80 because we thought the party was over.
Alex, if nothing else, I have always appreciated your ideas and insight
Having said that, we did get some good things, we did get Gorsuch and Kavanaugh which may help in this fight. Had Hillary won, the fight would have been over.
In some respects yes, but not in this case. SCOTUS Justices are in essence, unelected bureaucrats. They’re not going to remove the power to make law from other unelected bureaucrats.
I would however like to point out one peculiar factoid in all of this. Another unelected and even unconfirmed bureaucrat (Acting Attorney General Whitaker), just decreed by executive fiat, that it’s no fault acceptable for the next 90 days, to possess what they consider to be an unregistered machinegun.
Now let that sink in...
I think banning bump stocks had so much support across the isle for Trump not to accept it. I don't think he caved or gave in or even wiped his ass with the 2nd amendment. It could have been a lot worse. They didn't ban assault rifles which is manna from Heaven considering the number of mass shootings/school shootings in the last 10 years. They didn't even ban hi cap mags which is an issue by it self. I thought for sure they would ban the surefire60/100, Xproducts, Magpul drum mags, but they didn't. They didn't even ban binary triggers(maybe they did, I don't know).
Bump stocks, just like binary triggers are a "gray area" much like arm braces. I know a lot of us including me have a "not 1 inch" policy when it comes to legislation concerning our gun rights, but I would rather they feds strip us one item at a time rather than to outright ban guns they describe as "too unsafe".
And don't blame Trump, this bill had overwhelming support by both Republicans and liberals alike. It was bound to happen after a mass shooting like Vegas. For years after a mass shooting, the government did nothing, this time they did something, and it may lead to more people taking Trump seriously as a president at least in regards to public safety.
On the bright side, if your looking for the silver lining, we get to keep our nunchucks!!:cool:
I think banning bump stocks had so much support across the isle for Trump not to accept it. I don't think he caved or gave in or even wiped his ass with the 2nd amendment. It could have been a lot worse. They didn't ban assault rifles which is manna from Heaven considering the number of mass shootings/school shootings in the last 10 years. They didn't even ban hi cap mags which is an issue by it self. I thought for sure they would ban the surefire60/100, Xproducts, Magpul drum mags, but they didn't. They didn't even ban binary triggers(maybe they did, I don't know).
Bump stocks, just like binary triggers are a "gray area" much like arm braces. I know a lot of us including me have a "not 1 inch" policy when it comes to legislation concerning our gun rights, but I would rather they feds strip us one item at a time rather than to outright ban guns they describe as "too unsafe".
And don't blame Trump, this bill had overwhelming support by both Republicans and liberals alike. It was bound to happen after a mass shooting like Vegas. For years after a mass shooting, the government did nothing, this time they did something, and it may lead to more people taking Trump seriously as a president at least in regards to public safety.
On the bright side, if your looking for the silver lining, we get to keep our nunchucks!!:cool:
Are you trying to get yourself to believe this? Because it’s absurd. He didn’t just wipe his ass with the 2nd Amendment. He wiped his ass with the whole damned Bill of Rights! By executive fiat, he made a new law. He decreed something already determined to be legal, illegal. He provides for no remuneration. Not even a tax write off!
Worse yet, he provided political cover during the election cycle for every vulnerable congressman and senator who would’ve otherwise had to vot to ban them, legally.
He pissed in everyone’s face except the very establishment politicians who won’t pass a budget, which is a constitutional requirement of their jobs! If that ain’t establishment behavior, I don’t know what is.
Trump is DONE! :mad:
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-18-18, 23:15
Glocktogo,
100 percent agreed. Art of the deal my ass.
Glocktogo,
100 percent agreed. Art of the deal my ass.
I just got done visiting Gunbroker and there seems to be an abundance of bump stocks at reasonable prices. Business there is like nothing has happened. For most people I have spoken with, the Trump Executive Order is being treated like a Fart in a Windstorm. The non-compliance will be massive, and will go the way of 922r violations. People are buying these things up right now to sell after March, when they will become genuine contraband. Gotta love that American Spirit! The go-to-hell attitude to government is what makes America special in the World, and makes me proud to call myself an American.
Right now Trump is Satan to the gun owning, and Constitutional followers...but he's our Satan. Despite all of this he has value, I'm just not sure how to quantify it. If RBG takes a dirt nap, we get another Supreme Court Justice, of what quality we won't know. I just know I'm glad he's in the White House instead of Hillary. I hear Obama's hermaphrodite wife may be a top democrat candidate for 2020. Wouldn't that be lovely?
I hear Obama's hermaphrodite wife may be a top democrat candidate for 2020. Wouldn't that be lovely?
55092
Regardless of what is penned, I firmly believe that it will be challenged and it will be ruled as unlawful by the courts.
I hear Obama's hermaphrodite wife may be a top democrat candidate for 2020. Wouldn't that be lovely?
Alex Jones is that you?
Regardless of what is penned, I firmly believe that it will be challenged and it will be ruled as unlawful by the courts.
I know of two already that have been filed. But we need a good solid case, not just every idiot with a law degree going after it.
PatrioticDisorder
12-19-18, 04:16
Regardless of what is penned, I firmly believe that it will be challenged and it will be ruled as unlawful by the courts.
Agreed! I believe this ban went something like this, Don Sr. who isn’t a gun guy called Jr. who is a gun guy to find out what a bump stock is, I’d imagine Jr. told him only a few backwards dirt shooters own them, Sr. thought he could wave a magic wand and ban them, making himself seem reasonable doing so.
What I’d love to believe happened is the 4D chess theory. 4D chess theory version is Trump knowing this will get shot down by the courts as a clear over reach of the administrative state, permanently damaging the power of the administrative state.
As many others have pointed out, if Trump successfully bans bumpstocks, the future implications of such an administrative state ruling are chilling and should scare every American. Imagine if you will a country where a supreme leader rules by executives fiat usurping not only the legislative branch but blatantly disregarding any and all constitutionally protected rights.
PatrioticDisorder
12-19-18, 04:28
I didn't expect miracles, I never thought National Receprosity or the Hearing Protection Act would pass. I was just hoping it would stay as is and not get worse [Federally]. I am man enough to admit I was wrong.
Having said that, we did get some good things, we did get Gorsuch and Kavanaugh which may help in this fight. Had Hillary won, the fight would have been over.
As I said earlier, we WILL lose at the end, the best we can do is prolong the enevitable.
I admit to wearing the rose colored glasses thinking national reciprocity & HPA would get passed, how wrong I was. I’d blame it all on Paul Ryan, but I cannot forget how Trump slapped down Steve Scalise’s suggestion on national reciprocity.... Of course let’s put this into context, we are now discussing a bump stock ban, which has serious implications if it stands, but I believe will likely be shot down by the courts. If Hillary had won in 2016 and won the house and senate (maybe she wouldn’t need both houses, perhaps republicans would fold, they do a great job of that), we’d be discussing the assault weapons ban 2.0 (possibly with no grandfather clause, certainly no sunset clause), background checks for all private sales and who knows what else... Then the next mass killing event will likely be with a handgun, like Virginia Tech and we’d be back to the 1970s with a push to ban handguns.
No longer am I seeing things through rose colored glasses, but Trump is/was still the better alternative than any far left democrat candidate, especially since he has kept his word about appointing conservative/originalist judges to SCOTUS as well as to circuit courts. I believe the courts will have no choice but to take on some landmark RKBA courses in the coming years and it is either where RKBA rights will be upheld (at least until the left has enough support for a constitutional amendment removing RKBA) or shot down. Even with so called “originalist” justices there is likely to be some sort of “compromise” rulings on some issues.
Outlander Systems
12-19-18, 07:21
Daily reminder that private property rights are the foundation of western civilization.
Without that, you’ve just entered the Endarkenment.
Alex Jones is that you?
No, but I slept in a Hampton Inn recently. :D That should give me some added IQ points.
You know I have only visited InfoWars very infrequently, just to see what the scandal of the day is. Kind of like standing in the checkout line at the grocery store thumbing thru the Inquirer, Globe or Midnight Tattler. I really do miss the Bat Boy saga. It was priceless.
The rumors of Mrs. Obama have ranged from the bulge in the front of her dress to the discussions of how she conceived her two daughters. If I am correct, she has admitted some kind of medical/mechanical intervention.
Outlander Systems
12-19-18, 08:11
If she doesn’t have an actual dick, she’s got some ‘splainin’ to do bruh.
No, but I slept in a Hampton Inn recently. :D That should give me some added IQ points.
You know I have only visited InfoWars very infrequently, just to see what the scandal of the day is. Kind of like standing in the checkout line at the grocery store thumbing thru the Inquirer, Globe or Midnight Tattler. I really do miss the Bat Boy saga. It was priceless.
The rumors of Mrs. Obama have ranged from the bulge in the front of her dress to the discussions of how she conceived her two daughters. If I am correct, she has admitted some kind of medical/mechanical intervention.
Doc Safari
12-19-18, 08:50
I think given the fact that we are dealing with a reality TV star, real estate investor and former DNC supporter we are actually doing pretty good all things considered. I don't have any delusions, but we are looking at the loss of BUMP STOCKS...under Obama they went after EVERYTHING, twice. We almost lost EVERYTHING, especially during Harry Reids last minute hail mary attempt when we thought the whole Sandy Hook nonsense had been decided once and for all.
Totally agree. We had a choice between eating shit or eating poison and we wisely chose feces.
But... Where was the NRA through all of this?
/sarcasm
More money going to GOA in the future.
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-19-18, 10:05
Agreed! I believe this ban went something like this, Don Sr. who isn’t a gun guy called Jr. who is a gun guy to find out what a bump stock is, I’d imagine Jr. told him only a few backwards dirt shooters own them, Sr. thought he could wave a magic wand and ban them, making himself seem reasonable doing so.
What I’d love to believe happened is the 4D chess theory. 4D chess theory version is Trump knowing this will get shot down by the courts as a clear over reach of the administrative state, permanently damaging the power of the administrative state.
I've got some ocean front property I'll sell you for a good price.
I personally have outgrown the 4D chess master BS.
At this point, Trump’s only saving grace is that he isn’t Clinton or Obama.
I took the chump bait. The bottom-feeders thought they were getting free gibs and Obamaphones and I thought we were getting guns and 5’10” Charmaine Sinclair looking black chicks in the mail.
The last two years have been a hard lesson in political reality.
I figured I’d not be so naive as a Middle aged man but here I sit.
Doc Safari
12-19-18, 10:17
I personally have outgrown the 4D chess master BS.
At this point, Trump’s only saving grace is that he isn’t Clinton or Obama.
I took the chump bait. The bottom-feeders thought they were getting free gibs and Obamaphones and I thought we were getting guns and 5’10” Charmaine Sinclair looking black chicks in the mail.
The last two years have been a hard lesson in political reality.
I figured I’d not be so naive as a Middle aged man but here I sit.
I thought we were getting an outsider with the guts to stand up to the establishment. Up until he caved on shutting down the government I was convinced I was right. I think the bump stock ban is a token bone thrown to the "reasonable gun control measure" Fudds and nerds. It's like banning Punisher skulls or something. The only people who give a rat's ass are the people who own one (or so it looks to a mostly non-gun person like Trump).
IF, however, this is the tip of the iceberg and he starts siding with the gun grabbers on other things, then I will become the most anti-Trump person you can imagine. We HAD to have him to dodge Hillary. Hillary would already be trying to ban, tax, restrict, or otherwise inhibit gun ownership in this country. At least Trump "mostly" doesn't give a shit about the issue.
Time will tell if he becomes a 2A turncoat or if I'm right and the bump stock ban is just an easy way for him to think he's being a moderate on the gun issue.
SomeOtherGuy
12-19-18, 10:28
I thought we were getting an outsider with the guts to stand up to the establishment. Up until he caved on shutting down the government I was convinced I was right.
This. I had no trust in Trump, but against the devil incarnate I would have voted for ANYONE. I would not have hesitated to vote for Bernie if it was Bernie vs. HRC in the election. I can't think of any nominal Republican, even a RINO, I wouldn't have chosen over HRC.
But like Doc said, the limp-wrested pansy move this week on the budget and immigration is disgusting, and to me even more important than the bump-stock BS. Like so many other American politicians, Trump is merely not quite as offensive as the leading opponent, he's not anything to admire on his own merits.
This. I had no trust in Trump, but against the devil incarnate I would have voted for ANYONE. I would not have hesitated to vote for Bernie if it was Bernie vs. HRC in the election. I can't think of any nominal Republican, even a RINO, I wouldn't have chosen over HRC.
But like Doc said, the limp-wrested pansy move this week on the budget and immigration is disgusting, and to me even more important than the bump-stock BS. Like so many other American politicians, Trump is merely not quite as offensive as the leading opponent, he's not anything to admire on his own merits.
This is why no politician is perfect. I supported and volunteered for Reagan in the 1976 campaign (I was too young to vote). I voted for him twice when I was legal. He wasn't perfect and many people have issues on his gun sell-outs. Reagan was the best option at that time in history. Trump in 2016 was what we had and the alternative was horrible.
I vote strategically and look at the big picture. Voting one single issue or a couple of issues and you'll get disappointed. We may get sold-out by Trump on other gun related issues, or maybe not. As an American, I don't put the politician on a pedestal. They're the hired help and treat them as such. I am in charge - I am the government. If the hired help starts performing bad or tries to act as the boss, we either fire them or make adjustments in how we interact with that person. For me, draconian gun control will be an inconvenience, but NOT a means to which I lose my firearms or my ability to use them. You just have to constantly pivot and adjust. I flew so many aviation missions that many times the original plan required adjustments or complete changes based on opposition, weather and other factors.
Don't quit, don't surrender - just adjust your strategy for the long term. And NEVER surrender your guns, ammo or accessories.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-19-18, 11:32
I hope they impeach the turd. At least if we convict him and (hopefully ) carry him of to prison now we have some shot of a constitutional conservative running in 2020. I have zero faith that the courts will fix this. They should, of course, but these courts are all staffed by weak, weak men.
Actually I am okay with banning Punisher skulls. Especially the blue line Punisher skulls.
It actually makes me hate the Punisher now
ETA instead of a wall just mine the hell out of the border DMZ style. A buncha bouncing betties is a lot cheaper than a wall. More effective too.
It works for Chile so there is precedent
Actually I am okay with banning Punisher skulls. Especially the blue line Punisher skulls.
It actually makes me hate the Punisher now
ETA instead of a wall just mine the hell out of the border DMZ style. A buncha bouncing betties is a lot cheaper than a wall. More effective too.
It works for Chile so there is precedent
After the election, I ate some crow for saying that there is no chance that Trump could win. I also got crucified for suggesting that he wouldn't deliver on gun stuff. I take no joy in watching the Trumpeteers eat their own serving, but perhaps a valuable lesson was learned. As to his scotus pics, they are establishment republican choices that any one of his opponents in the primary could have chosen. Doesn't get credit for that from me.
It is a sad truth about American Politics that the best president for the second amendment has been Obama. Not only were millions of ARs sold because of the concern about legislation, but he actually expanded gun rights (CC in national parks) and refused to ban bump stocks by fiat, citing a lack of legal authority.
Bush 2: barrel ban in parts kits
Clinton: AWB, SW deal...
Bush 1: import ban, brady bill...
Reagan: Machine guns...
I am not saying that Obama was pro gun, but he actually didnt' get anything done. In my opinion it is time to stop voting republican because they might be better on guns. Vote for people who commit to being better. The GOP takes gun owners for granted and does nothing. The democrats need non college educated white votes in the interior of the country. There is an obvious opportunity here.
Actually I am okay with banning Punisher skulls. Especially the blue line Punisher skulls.
It actually makes me hate the Punisher now
ETA instead of a wall just mine the hell out of the border DMZ style. A buncha bouncing betties is a lot cheaper than a wall. More effective too.
It works for Chile so there is precedent
Been saying this for a while. Plus, if you make it through, chances are you would be a good addition to the US.
Anyone have the final wording on the reversal?
jerrysimons
12-19-18, 13:51
I think banning bump stocks had so much support across the isle for Trump not to accept it. I don't think he caved or gave in or even wiped his ass with the 2nd amendment. It could have been a lot worse. They didn't ban assault rifles which is manna from Heaven considering the number of mass shootings/school shootings in the last 10 years. They didn't even ban hi cap mags which is an issue by it self. I thought for sure they would ban the surefire60/100, Xproducts, Magpul drum mags, but they didn't. They didn't even ban binary triggers(maybe they did, I don't know).
Bump stocks, just like binary triggers are a "gray area" much like arm braces. I know a lot of us including me have a "not 1 inch" policy when it comes to legislation concerning our gun rights, but I would rather they feds strip us one item at a time rather than to outright ban guns they describe as "too unsafe".
And don't blame Trump, this bill had overwhelming support by both Republicans and liberals alike. It was bound to happen after a mass shooting like Vegas. For years after a mass shooting, the government did nothing, this time they did something, and it may lead to more people taking Trump seriously as a president at least in regards to public safety.
On the bright side, if your looking for the silver lining, we get to keep our nunchucks!!:cool:
This has nothing to do with legislation, this was an executive action. The “well it could be worse” argument is self defeating. I think we are all, some further along than others here, grappling with witnessing the beginning of the end of our pro gun influence in politics. This was the bark that offended us but the bit is coming. If not after 2018 it will be after 2020.
Outlander Systems
12-19-18, 14:32
>at least they only banned bump stocks
>at least we still have 30 round mags
>at least we still have 20 round mags
>at least we still have 10 round mags
>at least we still have detachable mags
>at least we can still own center fire rifles
Daily reminder that nobody NEEDS a scope with more magnification than 3X; you start getting into that 10X shit and it’s obvious you’re trying to be a sniper. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assert that only a person intent on assassination would even shoot beyond 100m. Assault optics have already been used in many crimes, and have no business on our streets. No humane hunter would pull the trigger on an animal at long range where the animal can’t even see him.
Grit. Disobedience. Authoritative dissidence. All things A lot of Americans have in spades.
Screw the ban. I would never have bought a bump stick, but now I will just because this ludicrous ban is being implemented. Hell, I’ll buy a case of them and hand them out as Christmas presents next year.
Fvck anyone and everyone that bans shit, is complacent with shit being banned, throws someone else under the bus by supporting a ban as long as they get to keep “their shit” and fvck all politicians in their evil, lying, elitist, scumbag statist asses!
That’s what the American spirit is about. Don’t let it die folks.
I take no joy in watching the Trumpeteers eat their own serving, but perhaps a valuable lesson was learned. As to his scotus pics, they are establishment republican choices that any one of his opponents in the primary could have chosen. Doesn't get credit for that from me.
It is a little more complicated.
The bump stock ban is a direct result of the Vegas shooting. It was the NRA that asked Trump for more regulations on bump stocks. I know more than a few Trump and NRA members that think banning bump stocks is a move to protect F/A and S/A from further bans.
Doc Safari
12-19-18, 15:54
It is a little more complicated.
The bump stock ban is a direct result of the Vegas shooting. It was the NRA that asked Trump for more regulations on bump stocks. I know more than a few Trump and NRA members that think banning bump stocks is a move to protect F/A and S/A from further bans.
And that, I'm finding, is a very Fudd attitude. "As long as I get to keep my Winchester Model 70 they can shit-can them-there black rifles 'n shit." The gun grabbers are NEVER satisfied and NRA STILL can't learn a lesson. During the 1990's the NRA countered calls for a waiting period by saying, "Let's have a background check instead." So, of course the gun grabbers suddenly wanted both. No wonder NRA's financials are in the toilet. People are beginning to see that they are out of touch with the tactical reality of the war on guns.
The Dems are planning to push for a whole bunch of gun control measures when they take the House in 2019. AT BEST caving to the bump stock ban is a way of temporarily taking gun bans off the table. At worst it will be used as "a good start" by the looney left gun grabbers to enact "sensible" gun legislation like a full-blown semi-auto or standard cap mag ban.
It's difficult to advocate for something that appears to make a gun fire on full auto: to be defended in front of the great unwashed who know little about guns. They already think AR's are machine guns anyway. How long will it be until they looney left starts saying that even though bump stocks are gone those dang black rifles fire too fast even without one?
The "rock and a hard place" position should have been to make banning bump stocks difficult enough that it stalls any further legislation. I think protests, lawsuits, non-compliance, and even taking the offensive by proposing other regulations be annulled is the only winning strategy.
Want to ban bump stocks? Fine, we'll campaign for suppressors to be legal with just a 4473 in the name of hearing safety. That should make them pull their hair out.
And that, I'm finding, is a very Fudd attitude. "As long as I get to keep my Winchester Model 70 they can shit-can them-there black rifles 'n shit."
Yep.
My point was the bump stock ban is NOT universally seen as "Gun Control" among Trump Supporters and NRA members. There are a lot of [otherwise] pro-gun people saying "Good Riddance" and from my experience, are also against many of the "gimmicks", bump stocks, SB braces, etc.
Doc Safari
12-19-18, 16:08
Yep.
My point was the bump stock ban is NOT universally seen as "Gun Control" among Trump Supporters and NRA members. There are a lot of [otherwise] pro-gun people saying "Good Riddance" and from my experience, are also against many of the "gimmicks", bump stocks, SB braces, etc.
Personally I think bump stocks are a needless accessory. Pistol braces on the other hand are very useful. Those will be next, I think. "Lets a pistol be illegally converted to a rifle." I can hear it now.
The problem is that this issue is ruled by emotion. Dead bodies crush reasoned thought every time. YOU know, and I know, and thousands of gun owners know--that a bump stock is just a gimmick. But explain why you should still own one after nearly 100 people are killed by someone using the damn thing and people are saying they should already be illegal under current law and who needs one to hunt squirrels, and all that happy horseshit. It's an impossible hurdle.
The fact is the NRA knows it's a loser. It's like defending the legitimate uses of fentanyl. I understand people legitimately suffering agonizing pain may not qualify for fentanyl if some proposed rules go through.
My worry is that pistol braces, suppressors, hi-cap mags, and black rifles will be the "bump stocks" of tomorrow.
Even if bump stocks have such a bad reputation now that no sane person would defend them publicly, we've got to decide where we draw the line.
"You don't need an AR that holds more than five rounds."
"You don't need a pistol grip or a bayonet lug to hunt deer."
"What are suppressors except the choice of criminals?"
ETC.
Yep.
My point was the bump stock ban is NOT universally seen as "Gun Control" among Trump Supporters and NRA members. There are a lot of [otherwise] pro-gun people saying "Good Riddance" and from my experience, are also against many of the "gimmicks", bump stocks, SB braces, etc.
They aren't really pro gun much less pro 2nd Amendment. Let a Democrat commit the same act and they will accurately call it anti-gun/anti 2nd Amendment.
At most, they hate the sinner, but really don't have a problem with the sin.
Personally I think bump stocks are a needless accessory. Pistol braces on the other hand are very useful. Those will be next, I think. "Lets a pistol be illegally converted to a rifle." I can hear it now.
The problem is that this issue is ruled by emotion. Dead bodies crush reasoned thought every time. YOU know, and I know, and thousands of gun owners know--that a bump stock is just a gimmick. But explain why you should still own one after nearly 100 people are killed by someone using the damn thing and people are saying they should already be illegal under current law and who needs one to hunt squirrels, and all that happy horseshit. It's an impossible hurdle.
The fact is the NRA knows it's a loser. It's like defending the legitimate uses of fentanyl. I understand people legitimately suffering agonizing pain may not qualify for fentanyl if some proposed rules go through.
My worry is that pistol braces, suppressors, hi-cap mags, and black rifles will be the "bump stocks" of tomorrow.
Even if bump stocks have such a bad reputation now that no sane person would defend them publicly, we've got to decide where we draw the line.
"You don't need an AR that holds more than five rounds."
"You don't need a pistol grip or a bayonet lug to hunt deer."
"What are suppressors except the choice of criminals?"
ETC.
Yep, that's pretty much where we are at. It's so easy when the issue is "nobody needs a machine gun" because so few people care about machine guns. Well honestly nobody needs legal weed but we have it.
Wish the NRA would sack up and hold the line because sadly they are our "tip of the spear" when it comes to fighting this shit, and just as often we are fighting them to step up and hold the damn line.
Bump stocks and hellstorm devices are goober shit from hell, but they are no worse than someone who wants to own a bong and smoke weed. So if we can't have bump stocks, they can't have bongs. Drug paraphernalia should be illegal to own unless you have a prescription from a doctor and getting a prescription for medical weed should be as complex and expensive as getting a Form 4 approved.
There is a rumour going around town that it is so poorly written that it was intended to be challenged and lost in court. Helping any confiscation talk in the future.
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-19-18, 18:37
There is a rumour going around town that it is so poorly written that it was intended to be challenged and lost in court. Helping any confiscation talk in the future.
Oh good grief I wish people would stop with the "4D chess you just wait and see this was intentional". You just need to come to grips with the fact that he not only supported, but brought about gun control in his first term. The only thing worse is the people that still think Q is anything but a 4Chan troll.
Trump didn’t win in 2016. WE won. I believe we can win again, maybe with someone real this time.
Even if we gotta get another Dem POTUS and a hardcore house majority.
Just giving you Intel of what people I respect are saying around DC. It's worth what you paid for it!
Well honestly nobody needs legal weed but we have it.
The weed that is legal is low grade dog shit! "Black Russian", "White Rhino", "Church OG", "Red headed stranger" , "Royal Gorilla", "Alabama Pine", "Blackbeard Kush" and "Sweet Island Voodoo"? For Gods Sake! Are we marketing this to kids? If you want an out of body experience, try some AK47 or some Alpine.
Wish the NRA would sack up and hold the line because sadly they are our "tip of the spear" when it comes to fighting this shit, and just as often we are fighting them to step up and hold the damn line.
The NRA is not what I thought it was. The NRA is a SuperPAC that gets all the money, and gets to endorse politicians. Its the suit and tie job everyone wants, raise billions, spend it how you want. I have gotten at least 3 emails in the last month asking for $25-$39 to help combat new gun legislation. The NRA endorsed the Bump stock ban, that's why I mentioned that this ban had too much support across the isle. It seems everyone who has a voice was for banning these stocks. The NRA is not about gun rights, they are about money! And rights now, the money is good! The NRA tells some guy in congress to make some noise about banning guns, then the NRA goes out on a fundraising campaign. Its the best of both worlds.
So if we can't have bump stocks, they can't have bongs. Drug paraphernalia should be illegal to own unless you have a prescription from a doctor and getting a prescription for medical weed should be as complex and expensive as getting a Form 4 approved.
Who smokes out of a bong? That is soooo 1996! Im sure those who still smoke using a bong, listen to Dave Mathews Band and wear Abercrombie and Fitch!
The only thing worse is the people that still think Q is anything but a 4Chan troll.
Seriously? Q is NOT a troll! I started a thread on M4C about Q and it got shut down real quick, what does that tell you?
Oh good grief I wish people would stop with the "4D chess you just wait and see this was intentional". You just need to come to grips with the fact that he not only supported, but brought about gun control in his first term. The only thing worse is the people that still think Q is anything but a 4Chan troll.
Even if it was 4D chess, still a bad idea. Sometimes things that should get overturned don't get overturned.
Voting for Trump over Clinton was a no brainer, but Trump needed to avoid this issue completely until Congress sent him a bill to veto.
Who smokes out of a bong? That is soooo 1996! Im sure those who still smoke using a bong, listen to Dave Mathews Band and wear Abercrombie and Fitch!
I wouldn't know, I'm not an aficionado. I was just using an apples to apples comparison, accessory to accessory.
...As I said earlier, we WILL lose at the end, the best we can do is prolong the inevitable.
No. The best THEY can do is prolong the inevitable.
... I know a lot of us including me have a "not 1 inch" policy when it comes to legislation concerning our gun rights, but I would rather they feds strip us one item at a time rather than to outright ban guns they describe as "too unsafe"....
Frankly, as much as it sucks to think about, I'd rather have all or none.
Liberty or death.
Sometimes people need to get some dirt kicked in their face before they cowboy up.
See sigline.
Or not- it would be a great litmus test to see how much all this "III%" and "Patriot" shit people been talking really means. Let em take it all now, and if nothing happens, well, then nothing ever will on this or any other issue and I can just drop out of society and be done with it all.
Daily reminder that private property rights are the foundation of western civilization.
Without that, you’ve just entered the Endarkenment.
And all of that needs to be done away with in the upcoming age of equality, since civilization and property rights are but mere social construct of old white men.
Endarkenment is justice. :)
....ETA instead of a wall just mine the hell out of the border DMZ style. A buncha bouncing betties is a lot cheaper than a wall. More effective too.
It works for Chile so there is precedent
Now you're starting to think like a white man, Espera.
No Charmaine Sinclair for you! :laugh:
I thought we were getting an outsider with the guts to stand up to the establishment. Up until he caved on shutting down the government I was convinced I was right....
IF, however, this is the tip of the iceberg and he starts siding with the gun grabbers on other things, then I will become the most anti-Trump person you can imagine. We HAD to have him to dodge Hillary. Hillary would already be trying to ban, tax, restrict, or otherwise inhibit gun ownership in this country. At least Trump "mostly" doesn't give a shit about the issue.
Time will tell if he becomes a 2A turncoat or if I'm right and the bump stock ban is just an easy way for him to think he's being a moderate on the gun issue.
Pretty much the long and short of it there.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-20-18, 01:04
Most casual gun owners I know fall into one of three categories:
1: There's a bumpstock ban? Hmmm, didn't realize that.
2: Bumpstocks are stupid/dangerous/needless. Ban away!
3. Trump is playing 4D chess/Trump is giving them something small to prevent something worse/Trump did this to trigger lawsuits because he is an ardent 2A supporter!
Most gun owners are casual gun owners. We are the minority.
It would be a great litmus test to see how much all this "III%" and "Patriot" shit people been talking really means.
You think like me. A lot of people like to act all forefather-ish and patriotic and talk about plans to defend themselves and to protect there freedoms. They aint about SHIT! What does that mean anyway? III%er? A lot of people think that way, they prep, they buy guns, they stock up on ammo and then what? Is there some text notification that we will receive, perhaps a coded message that is played over our emergency AM radio? Is there going to be a guy on horseback riding down Main St. yelling: "the feds are here to take your shit". Maybe a lantern in a church steeple signaling our movement? No! Because we all talk but there is no movement! The shot heard around the world followed by a stand off will end just like the Branch Davidians! Up in flames! Unless you can convince thousands and thousands of individuals to take action at the same time, and thousands upon thousands more in other key areas, there isn't going to be a movement! We act like we are the French resistance in 1944.
Its awesome to think back on our founding fathers and read about how awesome and patriotic they were. But that was then and this is now!
Most casual gun owners I know fall into one of three categories:
Most gun owners are casual gun owners. We are the minority.
im in a special category!
Nightvisionary
12-20-18, 05:01
But... Where was the NRA through all of this?
/sarcasm
More money going to GOA in the future.
GOA has already filed a lawsuit so I just donated to do my part.
https://www.gunowners.com/contribute?src=bumpstocklink
Doc Safari
12-20-18, 06:16
There is a rumour going around town that it is so poorly written that it was intended to be challenged and lost in court. Helping any confiscation talk in the future.
Just so I understand your post, when you say "Helping any confiscation talk in the future" are you saying "helping" our cause or the gun grabbers' cause?
Doc Safari
12-20-18, 06:21
You think like me. A lot of people like to act all forefather-ish and patriotic and talk about plans to defend themselves and to protect there freedoms. They aint about SHIT! What does that mean anyway? III%er? A lot of people think that way, they prep, they buy guns, they stock up on ammo and then what? Is there some text notification that we will receive, perhaps a coded message that is played over our emergency AM radio? Is there going to be a guy on horseback riding down Main St. yelling: "the feds are here to take your shit". Maybe a lantern in a church steeple signaling our movement? No! Because we all talk but there is no movement! The shot heard around the world followed by a stand off will end just like the Branch Davidians! Up in flames! Unless you can convince thousands and thousands of individuals to take action at the same time, and thousands upon thousands more in other key areas, there isn't going to be a movement! We act like we are the French resistance in 1944.
I have always thought it would begin with rumors that they are confiscating guns in East Windshield Wiper, Idaho, or some other middle-of-nowhere place. Then the media will not be able to contain the giddy gun grabbers gabbing about grabbing people's gats. The rumors and viral videos of people starting to resist will catch like wildfire. Pretty soon we will be living the Jim Shults article (see the "And this is How Civil Wars Begin thread for the Jim Shults article.).
Just so I understand your post, when you say "Helping any confiscation talk in the future" are you saying "helping" our cause or the gun grabbers' cause?
If it was taken to court and lost, it would impede the idea of confiscation through the ATF by laying down precedent. Helping our cause.
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-20-18, 07:31
Seriously? Q is NOT a troll! I started a thread on M4C about Q and it got shut down real quick, what does that tell you?
It tells me you are easily manipulated and suffer from poor reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. Just a guess.
Even if it was 4D chess, still a bad idea. Sometimes things that should get overturned don't get overturned.
Voting for Trump over Clinton was a no brainer, but Trump needed to avoid this issue completely until Congress sent him a bill to veto.
The NYC Democrat in him came out to play earlier than expected.
No. The best THEY can do is prolong the inevitable.
Do you really believe that? Do you really think we will ever see a repeat of 1776? As much as it pains me to say, based on my observations recently and what I can ascertain had happened prior to my interest in firearms [2008], nothing of the sort will ever happen. The firearm owning, freedom loving community has been shat on repeatedly without so much as a whimper. Sure, we file some lawsuits, we win some, we loose some, but in the end, there will never be a hill we can collectively agree on making a stand for and die for.
Or not- it would be a great litmus test to see how much all this "III%" and "Patriot" shit people been talking really means. Let em take it all now, and if nothing happens, well, then nothing ever will on this or any other issue and I can just drop out of society and be done with it all.
The III%s are nothing more than CosPlay/LARPers. They talk a big game, meanwhile you have cheese eating surrender monkeys doing more III% shit then them.
I didn't expect miracles, I never thought National Receprosity or the Hearing Protection Act would pass. I was just hoping it would stay as is and not get worse [Federally]. .
Exactly how I hoped/imagined it would go
If it was taken to court and lost, it would impede the idea of confiscation through the ATF by laying down precedent. Helping our cause.
Or show them how they worded it wrong and how better to do it next time. “Probing the defenses” so to speak... I hope your theory is right instead. I’m a little more cynical after living through the entire lifespan of the AWB.
I think this is why they picked a impractical widget like the BS. It won’t really appear on the radar but will still make a good test case. Time will tell. Edited: Remember, BOTH sides can play the 4D chess analogy.
It’s more telling where we are at Currently than anything. Our President just forced a plastic object to be made illegal and you must destroy or turn in or risk confiscation and jail time once caught without compensation for this once legal personal property.
No act of Congress. Just pure bullshit executive fiat.
This is far more serious than really anyone is admitting or realizing.
How this goes down and how citizens with these items act, how citizens without these items are complicit or not and how LEO’s act will be telling for our future.
Tyranny begets tyranny.
This is a major step in the wrong direction. It goes against all of the principles this country was founded upon and that’s i hold so dear.
I’m curious as to what the LEO’s on this board are going to do when they come upon these devices in the wild?
It’s more telling where we are at Currently than anything. Our President just forced a plastic object to be made illegal and you must destroy or turn in or risk confiscation and jail time once caught without compensation for this once legal personal property.
No act of Congress. Just pure bullshit executive fiat.
This is far more serious than really anyone is admitting or realizing.
How this goes down and how citizens with these items act, how citizens without these items are complicit or not and how LEO’s act will be telling for our future.
Tyranny begets tyranny.
This is a major step in the wrong direction. It goes against all of the principles this country was founded upon and that’s i hold so dear.
I’m curious as to what the LEO’s on this board are going to do when they come upon these devices in the wild?
IMO it is also telling that something Trump related happened and the MSM/Democrats/judges are silent instead of the usual cries of "He can't do that!"
I’m curious as to what the LEO’s on this board are going to do when they come upon these devices in the wild?
Hopefully they treat everyone equally and enforce the law. We don’t need selective enforcement. They should do their jobs, or quit. JMO
Hopefully they treat everyone equally and enforce the law. We don’t need selective enforcement. They should do their jobs, or quit. JMO
Hmmm...
Spirit of Law vs Letter of Law.
Spirit of Law is to keep some emo dude from mowing down a buncha people in the crowd.
Letter of Law is to hem up some guy who bought his bump stock at a gun show umpteen years ago for his .22 AR and doesn’t keep up with Breitbart every five minutes and stick him with a felony beef.
What to do, what to do......
BoringGuy45
12-20-18, 12:23
Hopefully they treat everyone equally and enforce the law. We don’t need selective enforcement. They should do their jobs, or quit. JMO
Yep, let's just overcrowd our already overcrowded and understaffed jails with previously law abiding citizens guilty of breaking a knee jerk political law. It's not like those of us in law enforcement took an oath to uphold the Constitution or anything.
Now that they are banned, I kinda want one. Ain't that a bitch. lol
IMO it is also telling that something Trump related happened and the MSM/Democrats/judges are silent instead of the usual cries of "He can't do that!"
Actually, Diane Feinstein of all people bitched that "He can't do that!" lol
Now that they are banned, I kinda want one. Ain't that a bitch. lol
Actually, Diane Feinstein of all people bitched that "He can't do that!" lol
Darnit, I missed getting to see that!
It’s more telling where we are at Currently than anything. Our President just forced a plastic object to be made illegal and you must destroy or turn in or risk confiscation and jail time once caught without compensation for this once legal personal property.
No act of Congress. Just pure bullshit executive fiat.
This is far more serious than really anyone is admitting or realizing.
How this goes down and how citizens with these items act, how citizens without these items are complicit or not and how LEO’s act will be telling for our future.
Tyranny begets tyranny.
This is a major step in the wrong direction. It goes against all of the principles this country was founded upon and that’s i hold so dear.
I’m curious as to what the LEO’s on this board are going to do when they come upon these devices in the wild?
In 1989 Bush (41) at the request of then Drug Czar, William Bennett, EO the 1989 import ban which ended the importation of most foreign semi auto firearms such as HK91s, FALs, AK pattern rifles and others because "only drug dealers use these things."
No act of Congress. Just pure bullshit executive fiat.
The ban is still in effect. Bush (41) later resigned his NRA membership because the NRA criticized ATF at WACO as "jack booted thugs."
So if you want your anti gun "conservative" President there he is.
What to do, what to do......
I'll take "Letter of the Law" for 5-20, Alex!
I'll take "Letter of the Law" for 5-20, Alex!
lol do you know how many laws you broke today just going to the gas station?
I challenge you to sit down and read through your state's lawbook, front to back, in one sitting. You won't know whether to laugh or cry.
Not even the BIBLE is that long. In my state it's still technically illegal to get laid outside of marriage
OCGA 16-6-18
My twenties alone should have me on a chain gang living on bread and water sing swing low sweet chariot
This seems to be the reaction to Trump's Bump Stock ban. Notice Bill Paxton has already smashed his Bump Stock and tosses it on the ground. This clip also makes the point that BATFE will be making nocturnal raids to make arrests and confiscate Bump Stock contraband:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=dsx2vdn7gpY
Tough but fair, OH58D.
Letter of the Law, you see
lol do you know how many laws you broke today just going to the gas station?
I challenge you to sit down and read through your state's lawbook, front to back, in one sitting. You won't know whether to laugh or cry.
Not even the BIBLE is that long. In my state it's still technically illegal to get laid outside of marriage
OCGA 16-6-18
My twenties alone should have me on a chain gang living on bread and water sing swing low sweet chariot
Oh, trust me, I know. The system is set up to provide as many opportunities as possible to hem people up. People end up in jail every day for stupid shit. This bump stock deal is just another one of those hammers, and people WILL go to jail for it. And the cops and prosecutors and judges will all slap each other on the ass because they took a baby killer off the streets.
I don't like, I don't believe in it, I don't think it's fair. But it's how it is.
Tough but fair, OH58D.
Letter of the Law, you see
Please understand that if I owned such a device, I would not destroy it, nor would I turn it in, despite it being a piece of plastic crap. The issue is well beyond that. It's about legally purchased and legally owned personal property that is instantly turned into contraband, and the owner an instant criminal. It's against everything this Country has been about. Defiance in the face of illegal acts by an overreaching government is no vice.
Darnit, I missed getting to see that!
It's only because she wanted to ban it with legislation and score the anti-gun victory her ego needs.
Doc Safari
12-20-18, 15:15
As this will probably go into effect, I wax nostalgic for all the thumbhole-stocked MAK-90's that were illegally converted to the pistol grip and regular stock. I wonder how many--if any--people ever got prosecuted for that? I still run into these in gun shops and gun shows. I realize 922(r) versus declaring a stock a machine gun is apples and oranges, but are helicopters going to be landing on people's lawns to take their bump stocks?
SomeOtherGuy
12-20-18, 15:59
lol do you know how many laws you broke today just going to the gas station?
I challenge you to sit down and read through your state's lawbook, front to back, in one sitting. You won't know whether to laugh or cry.
Not even the BIBLE is that long. In my state it's still technically illegal to get laid outside of marriage
OCGA 16-6-18
My twenties alone should have me on a chain gang living on bread and water sing swing low sweet chariot
No joke. I guarantee that everyone reading this has committed a "crime" in the last month. And I'll bet most of you have committed a jail-time offense just today. Probably don't even know it either.
As for officers, I would hope that anyone who isn't an ATF employee would simply not see a "bump stock", and I'm going to tell you that those who go looking for them deserve a Blue Falcon award. Not because the bump stock itself is necessarily a BF issue, but because that type of person will be a BF.
Agree with others that this is symbolic crap that will be randomly and haphazardly enforced, mostly against harmless people who had the misfortune to visit New Jersey or someplace like that.
“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”
― Ayn Rand
Yep, let's just overcrowd our already overcrowded and understaffed jails with previously law abiding citizens guilty of breaking a knee jerk political law. It's not like those of us in law enforcement took an oath to uphold the Constitution or anything.
But they're holding plastic. You can't just let an animal like that roam the streets... :rolleyes:
Hmmm...
Spirit of Law vs Letter of Law.
Spirit of Law is to keep some emo dude from mowing down a buncha people in the crowd.
Letter of Law is to hem up some guy who bought his bump stock at a gun show umpteen years ago for his .22 AR and doesn’t keep up with Breitbart every five minutes and stick him with a felony beef.
What to do, what to do......
If only there weren’t so many damn laws.....
Your version says bust the emo kid but leave your brother in law alone. See the problem? Constitution as written or spirit?
If only there weren’t so many damn laws.....
Your version says bust the emo kid but leave your brother in law alone. See the problem? Constitution as written or spirit?
Well the Constitution says Shall Not Be Infringed.
If I snatched up Cooter Brown for his bumpstock on his private land am I Infringing or following some Bureaucrat Borne Bullshit?
Which is it?
It can't be both.
Not being snarky. I used to be all Black and White too but really the world is in color
I agree. It shouldn’t be infringed. Selective enforcement sucks though. It leads to Hillary walking free while they want to impeach Trump on a technacallity. (I can’t stand Trump btw).
Didn’t take you as snarky. No worries.
First lawsuit - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/lawsuit-challenging-trump-bump-stock-ban
Argh. Prince does not have the horsepower to argue this. We need Alan Gura.
I have not given up, I was making a prediction. As Iwrote in #16, " the biggest impediment will be some publicity seeking internet blog lawyer filing in a poorly chosen district.". Sadly it looks like those attention seeking morons are already filing suit.
Yep.
I think banning bump stocks had so much support across the isle for Trump not to accept it. I don't think he caved or gave in or even wiped his ass with the 2nd amendment. It could have been a lot worse. They didn't ban assault rifles which is manna from Heaven considering the number of mass shootings/school shootings in the last 10 years. They didn't even ban hi cap mags which is an issue by it self. I thought for sure they would ban the surefire60/100, Xproducts, Magpul drum mags, but they didn't. They didn't even ban binary triggers(maybe they did, I don't know).
Bump stocks, just like binary triggers are a "gray area" much like arm braces. I know a lot of us including me have a "not 1 inch" policy when it comes to legislation concerning our gun rights, but I would rather they feds strip us one item at a time rather than to outright ban guns they describe as "too unsafe".
And don't blame Trump, this bill had overwhelming support by both Republicans and liberals alike. It was bound to happen after a mass shooting like Vegas. For years after a mass shooting, the government did nothing, this time they did something, and it may lead to more people taking Trump seriously as a president at least in regards to public safety.
On the bright side, if your looking for the silver lining, we get to keep our nunchucks!!:cool:
No. You’re approaching this all wrong. They completely reclassified what constitutes a machinegun and ordered thecsurrender of privatevpropery without due process. The reclassification has very ominous downstream ramifications for future bans through administrative rulings by unelected government officials.
I personally have outgrown the 4D chess master BS.
At this point, Trump’s only saving grace is that he isn’t Clinton or Obama.
I took the chump bait. The bottom-feeders thought they were getting free gibs and Obamaphones and I thought we were getting guns and 5’10” Charmaine Sinclair looking black chicks in the mail.
The last two years have been a hard lesson in political reality.
I figured I’d not be so naive as a Middle aged man but here I sit.
There is no 4D chess. People who claim as much are just completely delusional.
I am thankful that we don’t have Hillary and applaud his SCOTUS picks so far (time will tell). But I’m generally not a fan of Trump.
No. You’re approaching this all wrong. They completely reclassified what constitutes a machinegun and ordered thecsurrender of privatevpropery without due process.
A arm brace really does make a paperless SBR, just like a bump stock really does turn a gun into a machine gun. Though not by definition, but obviously by function. You cant deny that. It is what it is. I saw this coming years ago. Thank god the Vegas shooter wasn't using a bump arm brace or we would loose those too.
Does it suck? Yes!! But it is what it is. We can continue to push the boundaries and see how much shit we can get away with but when we think we found some loop hole because it doesn't meet the definition, you can almost guarantee a government opinion and possible regulation.
A arm brace really does make a paperless SBR, just like a bump stock really does turn a gun into a machine gun. Though not by definition, but obviously by function. You cant deny that. It is what it is. I saw this coming years ago. Thank god the Vegas shooter wasn't using a bump arm brace or we would loose those too.
Does it suck? Yes!! But it is what it is. We can continue to push the boundaries and see how much shit we can get away with but when we think we found some loop hole because it doesn't meet the definition, you can almost guarantee a government opinion and possible regulation.
You can’t turn a stone into a chicken, no matter how much wordsmithing you do. A bump stock DOES NOT meet the legal definition of a machinegun.
PatrioticDisorder
12-21-18, 06:33
You can’t turn a stone into a chicken, no matter how much wordsmithing you do. A bump stock DOES NOT meet the legal definition of a machinegun.
Exactly, if the beaucracy is allowed to do this and it stands with the courts, the administrative state is here to stay and you may as well not even have a constitution, in fact the legislative branch means little. We’ll have beaucrats deciding for us in every facet of our lives, not just on guns, whatever they say will be the “rules” of the land.
I find it funny (in a not so humorous way) that some of our own are willing to betray us as long as it means they can support Trump.
A arm brace really does make a paperless SBR, just like a bump stock really does turn a gun into a machine gun. Though not by definition, but obviously by function. You cant deny that. It is what it is. I saw this coming years ago. Thank god the Vegas shooter wasn't using a bump arm brace or we would loose those too.
Does it suck? Yes!! But it is what it is. We can continue to push the boundaries and see how much shit we can get away with but when we think we found some loop hole because it doesn't meet the definition, you can almost guarantee a government opinion and possible regulation.
Turncoat
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Outlander Systems
12-21-18, 18:15
This. An arm brace isn’t a stock, even if I fire it from my groin while doing a handstand. Shit still ain’t a stock.
You can’t turn a stone into a chicken, no matter how much wordsmithing you do. A bump stock DOES NOT meet the legal definition of a machinegun.
You can’t turn a stone into a chicken, no matter how much wordsmithing you do. A bump stock DOES NOT meet the legal definition of a machinegun.
I figured someone would go all 9/11 and bust out the fact book! If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
This. An Arm brave isn’t a stock, even if I fire it from my groom while doing a handstand. Shit still ain’t a stock.
It really is a stock! Plain and simple! I know its marketed as an "arm brace" but we all put it up to our shoulder, that makes it a stock! It is what it is! Its a loophole! That's all it is.
Turncoat
Turncoat? No! The Turncoats are the ones who will actually conform and comply with the rules. The Turncoats are the ones who actually pay $200 so they can own a SBR with some paperwork, the Turncoats are the ones who cant sleep at night because there flash hider isn't pinned and welded properly to there 14.5" barrel, the Turncoats are the ones who modify there guns to government approval then talk as if they are patriots.
Outlander Systems
12-21-18, 19:01
Wrong.
I figured someone would go all 9/11 and bust out the fact book! If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
It really is a stock! Plain and simple! I know its marketed as an "arm brace" but we all put it up to our shoulder, that makes it a stock! It is what it is! Its a loophole! That's all it is.
Turncoat? No! The Turncoats are the ones who will actually conform and comply with the rules. The Turncoats are the ones who actually pay $200 so they can own a SBR with some paperwork, the Turncoats are the ones who cant sleep at night because there flash hider isn't pinned and welded properly to there 14.5" barrel, the Turncoats are the ones who modify there guns to government approval then talk as if they are patriots.
Turncoat? No! The Turncoats are the ones who will actually conform and comply with the rules. The Turncoats are the ones who actually pay $200 so they can own a SBR with some paperwork, the Turncoats are the ones who cant sleep at night because there flash hider isn't pinned and welded properly to there 14.5" barrel, the Turncoats are the ones who modify there guns to government approval then talk as if they are patriots.
Well, ouch.
So if I decide to violate the NFA like a true Patriot and somehow end up behind bars for it, can I get a guarantee that an elite "Expendables" style squad of M4Carbine's hardest-core, Red, White and Blue-bleeding pipe-hitters is going to fast rope into the prison yard and bust me out of there?
Because as long as it's just me on my own vs a hostile legal system I'm going to conduct myself with appropriate levels of pragmatism, because I'm far too pretty for prison.
You can’t turn a stone into a chicken, no matter how much wordsmithing you do. A bump stock DOES NOT meet the legal definition of a machinegun.
That is the main problem here, ATF isn't even abiding by their own stated definitions. And when ATF ceases to follow their own stated rules, all bets are off.
Doc Safari
12-21-18, 20:35
You guys need to remember the law is whatever THE MAN says it is.
I recently purchased a Galil Ace Pistol and the arm brace was no bueno for me, so I e-filed a Form 1 to add a folding stock to the thing and make it an SBR. Should hear back from ATF in a couple weeks or so. They just got my fingerprints earlier this week. This is my first e-form, although I have done several form 1 paper apps in the past.
I suppose someday all of these AR and AK pistols with braces will be considered contraband. If so, couldn't you just remove the brace and install a sling loop? Problem solved. For my Galil Ace, I am installing a KNS Precision rear block to utilize a Double Star side folder.
Because as long as it's just me on my own vs a hostile legal system I'm going to conduct myself with appropriate levels of pragmatism.
Patriot, III%er, what does that even mean? A lot people are fast to say they are willing to die for this country, yet aren't willing to kill for it! All this talk about patriotism and defending this country is all talk I guess. Our constitutional rights are being challenged everyday and more and more legislation is passed to regulate our "freedoms" and I guess we will sit here and just be pragmatic. It is what it is. I bet people will most likely remove there bump stocks out of fear, but I doubt more than a handful will turn them in or destroy them.
But, just like most of you, I follow the rules. The law is the law and we must always abide by the law!
When I first enlisted in 1977 as part of my ROTC contract, I took an oath to defend the US against enemies, including domestic ones. I did the same thing in 1980 when I commissioned. Even when I retired, I never rescinded that oath - never took it back, so I guess I am still obliged to live up to those words.
Over the years I have come to understand with greater detail what a domestic enemy is. That definition fits anyone who is operating in violation of the Constitution, seeks to deprive others of their Constitutional Rights, or seeks to destroy the fabric of traditional America. Now the only question is how do I defend against these evil people? I can do it with violent actions, or I can do it with quiet defiance. The latter can be refusing to comply with any law or edict which is a violation of Constitutional and God Given Rights. This non-compliance, sans a military force or militia, will most likely be done in the shadows, in quiet, by individuals, not calling attention to yourself, but still refusing to accept what is patently a rights violation.
MountainRaven
12-21-18, 21:04
Turncoat? No! The Turncoats are the ones who will actually conform and comply with the rules. The Turncoats are the ones who actually pay $200 so they can own a SBR with some paperwork, the Turncoats are the ones who cant sleep at night because there flash hider isn't pinned and welded properly to there 14.5" barrel, the Turncoats are the ones who modify there guns to government approval then talk as if they are patriots.
You got any pictures of your unregistered SBRs?
Doc Safari
12-21-18, 21:05
Type type type...
That's all that ever happens.
Type type type...
That's all that ever happens.
Break the norm. Be a trend setter.
Never mind, gif doesn’t work......
Type type type...
That's all that ever happens.
Not directed to you or anyone else specifically, but let me know when the shooting actually starts. Until then, send emails, bitch on the internet, voice dissent, etc.
And if anyone comes up with something more productive to do until the shooting starts, by all means share.
Patriot, III%er, what does that even mean? A lot people are fast to say they are willing to die for this country, yet aren't willing to kill for it! All this talk about patriotism and defending this country is all talk I guess. Our constitutional rights are being challenged everyday and more and more legislation is passed to regulate our "freedoms" and I guess we will sit here and just be pragmatic. It is what it is. I bet people will most likely remove there bump stocks out of fear, but I doubt more than a handful will turn them in or destroy them.
But, just like most of you, I follow the rules. The law is the law and we must always abide by the law!
Well just from a self-preservation standpoint I'm inclined to consider killing for my country way less daunting of a prospect than dying for it. Because in one of those scenarios I end up dead, while in the other, someone else does.
Non-compliance with unconstitutional laws - including the NFA - only works if large numbers of citizens are doing it. One guy violating the NFA is a criminal (legally speaking, not morally), 100,000 violating the NFA is a movement, or forms the basis for one anyway. "Safety in numbers" is a real thing. The oft-referenced "III%" is a small minority but still represents a number of people, who to one degree or another, had each other's backs while they all collectively violated the laws at the time.
If I build an illegal machine gun, and get caught, I'm currently not confident 99,999 other "Patriots" are going to have my back. Are you? I would assume that the initiators of the Boston Tea Party at least checked with each other beforehand to make sure that they were all on the same page. If your revolution is still at the point where if you die, it's probably going to die with you, than discretion is probably the better part of valor. Regardless of how willing to die for your cause that you are, taking measures to not die might be the better move at least until support for your insurrection actually starts to gain some real traction.
Tacitly build a network of people who are with you first, openly violate the NFA, or whatever other unjust law needs to be challenged, second.
BoringGuy45
12-22-18, 07:49
If we ever want some kind of movement, we need to stop this constant self-pitying: Woe is us, this country is screwed, it's not even worth saving, they've won, no matter what we do the deck is too stacked against us, we'll lose in court, we'll lose in congress, we'll lose on the battlefield, it's over, we lost. It's know it's part of the conservative ethos that the past was always better, so the future can only be worse, but we need to stop that bullshit if we actually want to rally people to our cause. Yes, maybe things are going the wrong way. Maybe it appears hopeless quite often. But we won't know until we try.
We also need to get out the mentality that we don't give a damn about anyone except me and mine. I think too many people read the Good Samaritan story and think that Jesus was wrong about Samaritan. The first two guys had it right: Walk by the beaten man and mind your own business; ain't your problem and anyway that's what he gets for not being careful. We can't be like. The "doesn't affect me so I don't care" mentality is killing us. We need to rally together, help each other out, put aside minor differences and disagreements, and actually be a team.
Again, things may look bad, but it ain't over till it's over.
Well just from a self-preservation standpoint I'm inclined to consider killing for my country way less daunting of a prospect than dying for it. Because in one of those scenarios I end up dead, while in the other, someone else does.
Non-compliance with unconstitutional laws - including the NFA - only works if large numbers of citizens are doing it. One guy violating the NFA is a criminal (legally speaking, not morally), 100,000 violating the NFA is a movement, or forms the basis for one anyway. "Safety in numbers" is a real thing. The oft-referenced "III%" is a small minority but still represents a number of people, who to one degree or another, had each other's backs while they all collectively violated the laws at the time.
If I build an illegal machine gun, and get caught, I'm currently not confident 99,999 other "Patriots" are going to have my back. Are you? I would assume that the initiators of the Boston Tea Party at least checked with each other beforehand to make sure that they were all on the same page. If your revolution is still at the point where if you die, it's probably going to die with you, than discretion is probably the better part of valor. Regardless of how willing to die for your cause that you are, taking measures to not die might be the better move at least until support for your insurrection actually starts to gain some real traction.
Tacitly build a network of people who are with you first, openly violate the NFA, or whatever other unjust law needs to be challenged, second.
The problem with that tactic is how vulnerable each individual is. Sure we may “overwhelm” the system with mass non-compliance, but some of us would still go to prison.
There have been a couple of overall successful standoffs (Bundy ranch, Mahler refuge), but in both cases the protagonists were flawed, the movements corrupted with malcontents and some people were still killed or jailed.
Is there still a peaceful path to success where truly honest, otherwise law abiding Americans don’t wind up in prison or dead? :confused:
Is there still a peaceful path to success where truly honest, otherwise law abiding Americans don’t wind up in prison or dead? :confused:
NO
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Anyone know where GOA is filing their law suit? The news release says they and two or three others are filing suits but not where. Only immediately after it takes effect.
In reading a lot of comments on numerous gun forums, I am expecting massive non-compliance on the Bump Stock edict. Even Nugent on GunTalk radio this afternoon said the whole thing on bump stocks was stupid.
Doc Safari
12-28-18, 13:35
In a surprise move, Di Fi expresses doubts about the legality and longevity of the ban:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/12/luis-valdes/even-sen-feinstein-knows-the-trump-bump-stock-ban-is-on-thin-legal-ice/
You would think that California’s doyenne of civilian disarmament, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, would be as happy as a pig in slop about President Trump unconstitutionally and arbitrarily re-classifying bump stocks at machine guns. But in a lengthy op-ed piece she wrote for the Washington Post, Feinstein stated the following;
(L)et’s not celebrate too quickly. Presidents can rescind regulations just as easily as they create them, and in this case, the bump stock ban will likely be tied up in court for years. Only hours after the Trump administration released its final regulation, Gun Owners of America announced it would file a lawsuit.
What did DiFi mean by that? Displaying rare intellectual honesty where gun laws are concerned, even she recognizes that Trump’s actions were wrong.
ATF initially concluded that it could not ban these devices through regulation in 2008. And after the 2012 shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., ATF further explained in a 2013 letter to Congress that it could not take unilateral action because “stocks of this type are not subject to the provisions of federal firearms statutes.” In addition, internal ATF documents made public through Freedom of Information Act requests by Giffords Law Center and Democracy Forward show that the agency had reiterated its lack of authority to ban bump stocks unilaterally and that it had approved similar devices as recently as April 2017.
In a surprise move, Di Fi expresses doubts about the legality and longevity of the ban:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/12/luis-valdes/even-sen-feinstein-knows-the-trump-bump-stock-ban-is-on-thin-legal-ice/
That’s only because she won’t agree with anything President Trump does whether it’s right or wrong.
That and the fact she has a bill that basically outlaws everything dealing with ARs and similar nature firearms.
Anyone know where GOA is filing their law suit? The news release says they and two or three others are filing suits but not where. Only immediately after it takes effect.
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN SOUTHERN DIVISION
complaint filed 12/26/18.
Interesting good read.
Another suit filed in DC District Court
https://www.scribd.com/document/396418931/Filed-Bumpstock-Complaint-Redacted#
BoringGuy45
12-28-18, 16:31
That’s only because she won’t agree with anything President Trump does whether it’s right or wrong.
Maybe Trump should demand an assault weapons ban and a ban on concealed carry. The Democrats would immediately draft a law making it illegal to ban semi-auto rifles at any level of government, as well as universal carry. ;)
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