Vertical Grip Placement

[Paladin_139]

What are your guys' thoughts vertical grip placement, closer to the mag well or closer to the muzzle? I've seen many rifles set up both ways. I've always been taught to keep you elbows in and keep the weapon in your 'power zone' as much as possible which is why right now I have mine set as close to the mag well as possible without the magazine getting in the way of my arm. Seems you would have more fine control if the grip was out further but would be able to bring it up and down faster if it was in more. I suppose also it would depend on what your doing with the weapon, I use mine for work and only get it out once or twice a week to clear a small building or two, I'm not walking on any long patrols or anything like that. Any preferences? I'm just wondering if there is a good reason to mount or not mount it a certain way. Thanks! :cool:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n284/masamune93/DSC01112.jpg

[cathellsk]

I used to like it as far back as possible, since I used to grip the magwell. Now I like it about in the middle on a carbine rail.
Here's some good thoughts on the subject...
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=70458&an=0&page=4#70458

[N4LtRecce]

Generally closer to the muzzle.

[cronus5116]

Mine is closer to the mag. it also for me feels alot more comfortable.

[tumbleweed1002]

I like mine a little closer to the muzzel it seems to balance better for me.

[USMC03]

Origionally wrote the following on another site in June of 2007:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Coyote%20Colt/DPP_0159.jpg

Running the vertical foregrip all the way forward on a carbine length rail is not anything new and it's not anything I thought up myself.

Guys much higher speed than me have been suggesting that I move my vertical foregrip all the way forward since 2003 or 2004.


I had tried moving the vertical foregrip all the way forward several times in the past and it just never "felt right" or was causing me some pain and discomfort due to an injured left shoulder.

In late May after Pat Rogers' class, I tried moving the vertical foregrip all the way forward on the LaRue 7.0 rail, and everything finally "clicked". After several years and several attempts I finally figured out why there were so many advantages to having the vertical foregrip all the way forward.


Think of how things balance and piviot points and maybe the following will make some sense


I have found that the magwell hold or having the vertical foregrip toward the delta ring places the center of gravity too far to the rear. Not a big issue when shooting in a CQB enviornment, but when engaging targets at further distances I have found this technique doesn't work well for me, and it's hard to keep the gun steady.


Kind of hard to explain this via a written message but here goes:

Think of your carbine like as if it were an old 1800's musket. The stock is in your shoulder, and thus is supported at one end.

If you wanted the best control over the musket when moving it up and down and left to right where would you want to put your support hand? Would you want your support hand in close (near your firing hand), in the middle (dead center) of the musket, or as close as you could get it to the muzzle?

Obviously you would want to get the second point of support as close to the muzzle as possible.


Here is an exercise to try to illistrate the point I'm trying to make. Pick several targets in your field of view (ie. trees, rocks, etc), and stagger the distance both from left to right and front to back (ie. target #1 - 50 yards, target #2 - 350 yards, target number #3 175 yards, target #4 25 yards, etc).

Exercise #1:

Now take the longest rifle you have avalible to you (it can be a hunting rifle, AR15A2, M1 Garand, etc....the longer the rifle the better) and put your support hand as close as you can to the firing hand and transition from targets #1 thru #4 as fast as you can. Do this a couple times.

Exercise #2:

Now move the support hand the middle of the gun (ie. as close to center as possible) and transition from targets #1 thru #4 as fast as you can. Do this a couple times.

Exercise #3:

Now, move the support hand as far out on the forend as possible and transition from targets #1 thru #4 as fast as you can. Do this a couple times.


I'm sure you will find that the further you get the hand out on the fore end the easier it is to control the gun, the quicker your transitions from one target to another, and when the support hand is in close you tend to "over shoot" or go past your target but when it's further out, you can stop on a dime.

Moving the hand or vertical foregrip as close as you can get it to the unsupported end of the gun (ie. the muzzle) provides the best level of support and also helps you drive and control the gun much better.

With the vertical foregrip I'm constantly pushing rearward on the vertical foregrip, thus providing constant rearward pressure into my shoulder.

While at first having the vertical foregrip all the way forward feels ackward, I find that my support shoulder and arm doesn't fatigue as quickly and I can hold the gun up on target for longer periods of time.



S/F,
Jeff

[NoBody]

Deleted.

[cronus5116]

If you want to drive that carbine then place the grip as far forward as comfortable.

Yea, I agree, mine is placed 2 in from the delta ring, but what USMC03 said makes sense, and next time I shoot long distance I will try it, but I think I wont like it :D

[RogerinTPA]

Agreed. I used to have my VFG at the mid section, but found it easier to engage targets fast and more accurate when I moved it to the front end of the rail.


If you want to drive that carbine then place the grip as far forward as comfortable.

[Paladin_139]

Thanks guys. I hear what your saying USMC03 and it does make sense. I'm headed to the range tomorrow and I'll try it out closer to the muzzle. Gotta move everything around on my fore end again.... :D

[cronus5116]

Let us know how it went

[SingleStacker45]

Most of the better shooters I listen to say ditch the verticle grip. I've struggled with it on and off. I am currently running without. If you read Kyle Lamb he says either with or without, amd all of the photos show it way out towards the muzzle. So far it seems to help with target transitions to have a grip closer to the muzzle. When you swing the gun there is less mass in front of your hand that would cause you to overswing the next target.

Mule