General purpose 20 inch 308

[Xbox and ARs]

A little back story, I have been wanting to get into the bolt action game after seeing some scout rifles. Any hunting I would do would probably be within 300 yards. I don't have a can, but would maybe put one on eventually. After looking around at several rifles, I've become interested in a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD. I've heard that the stock needs to be upgraded. Are there any better options than that particular model 700? Or should I get it and see how it functions then upgrade the stock later? Btw I have seen this particular rifle online for less than $600.

[Lost River]

Remington used to be the gold standard in manufacturing. Sadly those days are long gone. The story is quite similar to the one at Sig with Cohen at the helm, and personally I would be very hesitant to purchase a new Remington or Marlin (now owned by the same parent company) product these days. I have owned literally dozens of Remingtons over the years and am am M24 armorer, and with the in mind, would recommend you look at Tikka rifles.

The Tikka T3 can be had in .308, and their compact models come in 20" barrels. Before the youth models were available, I had a T3 chopped to 20"s. Actually I have had 3 Tikka .308s chopped to 20"s, one was a varmint barrel model (no longer imported) and two were for my daughter and I. The sporter weight ones have proven to be awesome little all purpose, all around hunting rifles.



https://i.imgur.com/oU5Ho4h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PVb9DTq.jpg

Daughter and her 20" 308 Tikka:


http://i.imgur.com/1P5OBSr.jpg (https://imgur.com/1P5OBSr)


https://i.imgur.com/yHJVfCu.jpg


2018 elk
https://i.imgur.com/C4wmqRU.jpg


You stated you have been reading up on scout rifles, if so I would suggest going over to the Pistol-Forum and reading this thread:


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?21568-Scout-rifle-circa-2016

http://i.imgur.com/TH12NvO.jpg (https://imgur.com/TH12NvO)


It is a rather informative thread.

[Tx_Aggie]

Those are some great hunting pics, especially the one with your kiddo! It's always nice to see kids really enjoying hunting and the back country in general.

As for the recommendation of a Tikka, I'd say you're right on the money. They are a solid rifle and a great value. The aftermarket is even slowly starting to expand, with easy availability of triggers, stocks, bolt handles, and even pre-fit barrels, if you're someone who like to customize a rifle or are just concerned about the ability to make changes down the road.

[Xbox and ARs]

Thank you Lost River and Tx Aggie for the replies. Very cool pics. The Tikka looks nice. I will look into these. I would like the ability to use a removable box mag and a bull barrel. The Tikkas seem to have a light profile barrel. Maybe the light barrel would work for me though.

[1859sharps]

A little back story, I have been wanting to get into the bolt action game after seeing some scout rifles.

getting into bolt action rifles and getting into scout rifles are not two ways of saying the same thing. Rifles built on a bolt action span a VERY WIDE range of uses and thus built to a WIDE range features and configurations.

The Scout Rifle is Col. Coopers idea of what would make a good general purpose rifle and the characteristics are very specific and broad at the same time. with respect, the above link would be a wast of time if you truly want to get your head around what a Cooper Scout Rifle is and the thoughts behind it, till recently you had two options to learn.... LOTS of random inaccurate information scattered across the internet by people who don't get/are ignorant of what he was going for/have incomplete information. Or digging into Coopers writings as if you were preparing a history paper. which isn't as simple as it sounds because he NEVER wrote a definitive document. His thoughts are scattered across several magazine articles, books he wrote and his commentaries. I have tried this and came up short because not all his past writings are publicly available on the internet.

Fortunately we have a third option. Richard Mann, who spent the better part of 5 years researching and testing the concept wrote a book called the "scout rifle study". he had access to Coopers personal papers in addition to many of the published sources the rest of us would have to dig around for. The book is well worth the cost if you truly want to understand Coopers concept. Mann analyses the idea, tests it, and doesn't just take Coopers word. Now that Cooper is gone, it is THE SOURCE for understanding the concept. https://www.amazon.com/Scout-Rifle-Study-History-Century/dp/1983512540/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546287143&sr=8-1&keywords=scout+rifle+study

If you don't like Cooper's specific concept, but like the idea of a general purpose rifle, then by all means experiment and come up with your own set of criteria and build your own dream rifle and see if you are able to build a better mouse trap. that is essenitally what Cooper did. wanted a better mouse trap, and so set out to achieve that. The Scout Rifle is he idea of a better mouse trap and the debate on his success or failure will rage on for decades.



.... I've become interested in a Remington 700 SPS Tactical .....

I have just a plain 700 sps tactical, replaced the stock, enjoy the heck out of it. good rifle. but other than having a 20 inch barrel like a Cooper Scout Rifle calls for and being a bolt action, the two rifles are about as different as apples and oranges.

IF you are interested in a Scout Rifle, my suggestion get Mann's book, read it. if you have questions, go here http://www.scoutrifle.org/ if you still want one after that, do your best to get a Steyr. They are the only mass produced, production rifle that will let you experience the concept as close to Coopers idea as possible. There is a lot more to it than a forward mounted scope on a bolt action rifle.

If you are just interested in something Scout like, that brings you to the Ruger GSR. people who buy it love it from what i can tell. you would not be giving up much if anything going this route.

if you want a simple general purpose(ish) rifle, the 700 tactical is a bit on the heavy side, but if you aren't going to be lugging it around the field, in the mountains etc. it will sort of do as a general purpose rifle. But as fun of a range toy as it is, it is no scout rifle. If you plan to hunt, hike with a rifle, spend time out in the field, I would steer clear of the 700 tactical. it is honestly more of a range toy, or a very entry level rifle for some mid range target shooting with an eye to competition.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Thank you Lost River and Tx Aggie for the replies. Very cool pics. The Tikka looks nice. I will look into these. I would like the ability to use a removable box mag and a bull barrel. The Tikkas seem to have a light profile barrel. Maybe the light barrel would work for me though.

The Tikka T3x CTR should satisfy those requirements

[Coal Dragger]

Yep. That T3x CTR is a great value.

[utahjeepr]

Just in case you are not noticing the trend here. I love everything about my Tikka T3. Smooth action, accurate, stiff 20 inch threaded barrel, practically no point shift with my can. The mags aren't the most durable looking, and they are a little more expensive than I would like, but they have not ever given me an issue.

[Tx_Aggie]

100% agree with the above suggestions to grab a Tikka CRT and be done.

But, since it's nice to have choices, another option might be to pick up a Howa barreled action from Brownell's and drop it into the stock or chassis of your choice:

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/barreled-receivers/1500-308-win-20-threaded-heavy-barreled-action-prod94615.aspx

(the 20" threaded heavy barreled 308 is currently out of stock, but they are available for back order. There are also other options currently in stock:

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/barreled-receivers/index.htm?avs%7CMake_3=Howa

A KRG Bravo stock/chassis would allow the use of AICS pattern mags and would run you about $450, which puts you within $1-200 of a Tikka CTR (assuming you got the CTR somewhere like Bud's), but there are other more affordable options for stocks.

https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/bravo-chassis/

A Hogue stock like the one that Remington comes in (not great, and really flexible, but good enough to start with) runs about $200 at Brownell's (for a Heavy Barreled Howa Short Action), so you would be under $700 for the barreled action + Hogue stock. No detachable mag, but the Remington AAC doesn't have one either. And the Howa is much nicer than a factory Remmu, and nearly as nice of a rifle as the Tikka (though not quite).

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-parts/rifle-stocks/howa-1500-stock-full-bed-block-prod84921.aspx

[Pappabear]

Tikka and Bergara are safe bets. There is a similar thread you could read on as well in Precision Rifle sub forum.

PB

[Tx_Aggie]

Tikka and Bergara are safe bets. There is a similar thread you could read on as well in Precision Rifle sub forum.

PB

RIght on. I hadn't thought of it, but a Bergara HMR (or Ridge except for the DBM) would fit the OPs needs as well as a Tikka CTR.

[Xbox and ARs]

Thank you for all the replies. Just to be clear, I am interested in a general purpose rifle, not a "by the book" scout rifle. It seems the Tikka t3 CTR could be a great option. It weighs the same as the Remy, but has DBMs. I will keep researching and thinking about it before I make a purchase. If I bought it today, I'd probably get a 700, swap out the stock, and add a Magpul box mag well kit, and throw on a scope. Maybe that's just because I grew up on Remington and want them to be good.

[Watrdawg]

Another option is the Remington 5R in .308. I've had mine for about a year or so now and love it. I replaced the trigger with a Timney trigger but other than that it is stock. Very accurate! The Tikka and Bergara would fit the bill also.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I purchased a Rem .308 700 AAC SD about 5 years ago.
Hunter stock, Timney trigger and APA brake. Very pleased.

https://i.imgur.com/B4uVH6u.jpg?1

[Pappabear]

I purchased a Rem .308 700 AAC SD about 5 years ago.
Hunter stock, Timney trigger and APA brake. Very pleased.

https://i.imgur.com/B4uVH6u.jpg?1

I did a similar drill with Rem 700 drill with their 5R’. Timney trigger , Pillar bed stock, cheek riser , AAC can in 223, 308, 300 WM. It was 7 years ago and still have the 223 and it’s a laser beam. It was the thing to do back then.

It’s still a viable alternative but it ends up pretty pricy. I never regretted any of those builds , but that was a long time ago before new entries in the market.

[markm]

I read a lot of negative comments about Remington, but not too many actual accounts of actual issues. Remington did have a poor run of rifles at one point according to some examples I heard about. But we ran into a guy at the range that pointed out that the current models with the digital code under the bolt knob are good as they are run on a single CNC as opposed to older guns machined on several stations. (our reference samples are production from the last 8+/- years for what it's worth)

We've run into one bad barrel, but that's it. Our Riflesmith works on these things all the time, and I've not heard of any sort of "avoid remington" comments. In fact, I think he'll still tell us to go get this one or that one from time to time.

[LDM]

I hunt in northwestern NC on land with slopes up to 30%. Mixture of woods and and pastures. I wanted a light and compact rifle and purchased a Weatherby Vanguard Youth in 308. It has a very good trigger. This rifle has a cut down stock but includes a 1" spacer; I added a Sims slip on recoil pad that added an inch and gives me a good pull length. It has a 20" barrel. I mounted a low power Nikon variable scope. Total weight is right at 7.5 pounds.
The Vanguard is a Howa action, which is not cutting edge technology but tried & true. Weatherby has put a good stock on this model that I much prefer over the Howa offerings.
It was relatively affordable. It is handy. And it is accurate.

[sidewaysil80]

The Howa 1500's are amazingly accurate (Japanese) and most manufacturers make stocks/chassis for them. If you want a 700 the Magpul combo is a pretty good deal, if you search around they sell new for $800ish. Not a bad deal at all for 5R rifling, threaded barrel, factory tac bolt knob (helps if wearing gloves), magpul stock/bottom metal, etc. I would scoop one up in a heart beat:

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-magpul

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-magpul-enhanced

[1859sharps]

I read a lot of negative comments about Remington, but not too many actual accounts of actual issues. Remington did have a poor run of rifles at one point according to some examples I heard about.

I tend to agree the negative comments are way over blown. Remington like any company has had it's moments when they have stumbled. Often around management or ownership changes. But they ultimately turn things around.

Except for their trigger issue (which is easily solved...after all who uses the factory trigger??) I personally haven't read of an issue that would ever give me pause in buying a Remington. but if you know about the high quality replacements out there, that pause should be a short one.

[Lost River]

I have worked on a bunch of 700s and have seen a good number of problems that cannot be discounted to "negative comments overblown".

Just google "Remington 700 bolt handles broken"..

I have also seen factory stocks so flimsy and cheap that they had multiple contact points all up and down the barrel, short chambers, totally screwed up rifling, absolutely horrible crowns that should have never left the factory etc. Plus when using the actions as a base for a custom gun that always have to be trued/squared, which is simply NOT the case with the Tikka T3s.

This is coming from a guy who was a die hard Remington guy for a very long time. Remington today is not the same company it was 25 years ago. That is a fact.

When I attended the M24 armorer school for Dept of State, the older gentleman who had been with Remington for many years said the exact same thing off line (not in front of the class).

[MontanaMarine]

Here's some more inspiration. This is a Rem 700 LH. I built it up along the way to harden it, and enhance shootability.

Mcmillan HTG stock
Badger Ordnance floorplate, brake, bolt knob.
Timney flat trigger
SWFA 10X Milquad scope in Badger Ord rings
Nightforce 40 MOA rail
Bolt handle reinforced to bolt body via three welded in hex screws.

https://i.imgur.com/TiXwpoL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wQv7eBG.jpg




Older pic with 10X Bushnell, out on the hill.

https://i.imgur.com/q9eu6nS.jpg

[sierra 223]

Looks like a very nice setup.

[sierra 223]

Lost River old posts about his Tikka is what got me interested in getting a T3. It has been left stock, Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40 with Talley Lightweights and VTAC sling. Havent got to shoot it as much as I would like. Need to learn how to reload for it and have Lost River give me his reload recipe to get started. Thanks Lost River

[1859sharps]

Nice looking rifle. too bad whoever put it together put the bolt on the wrong side. hopefully you can get a refund. :lol:

[MontanaMarine]

Well, when I was in the phase of building a bolt action rifle battery, Remington and Savage were about all there was for LH shooters.

Lot's of great choices nowadays, that are already 'hardened'.

I'm too far along to have any interest in retooling now, so I'm sticking with what I've got.

[Mjolnir]

Scout Rifle???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RUTGERS95]

Compass

[Life's a Hillary]

I’m a Tikka shill after buying two of them (and looking at a third). They are just fantastic rifles for the cost and hard to beat IMO. Europeans don’t fool around with sloppy tolerances on their rifles and the Fins definitely know how to build one right. Drop that sucker in a KRG Bravo and you basically have a Sako TRG.

[everready73]

Ruger American Hunter might be worth a look as well. These come in 16'', 20'', and 22'' barrel lenghts in 308 it looks like

I bought my boy a standard american for his first hunting rifle and it is a nice gun for the price. These will prob be around $600 street price

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleHunter/models.html

[everready73]

$620.99 at Grab A Gun

I think i just convinced myself to buy one in 6.c creed

[RUTGERS95]

$620.99 at Grab A Gun

I think i just convinced myself to buy one in 6.c creed

buy the compass and don't look back. You find a better rifle, more accurate, or consistently better reviews than the compass.