View Full Version : G30SF Trouble
I won a gun at a GSSF match last year. Considering i own a G22, 27 & 21sf the logical choice was the 30sf.
From the beginning i experienced several FTF and a couple failures to fire from off center light strikes. Tried various types of ammo (over 1000 rounds). Limp wristing ruled out.
I sent it back to Smyrna (at my expense) and got it back within 10 days. I was told the gun received a new recoil spring and the magazines received new springs. Went to range problem persisted.
I noticed some wear on the shoulder of the trigger bar near the dimple (similar wear on my G21sf but not on 22 & 27) and noticed that when empty if i tightened my grip and squeezed the trigger aggressively i could actually prevent the slide from going into battery. Strange. I changed the trigger bar which Glock tech services reluctantly sent me. Problem persists.
The easy way to avoid this occurrence would seem to be to squeeze the trigger less aggressively but i can't imagine being so thoughtful in a gun fight.
Anyone ever experience this? What can be done besides getting rid of gun?
This is a new problem-I haven't heard of it before. I'd suggest several things: First, if you're military/law enforcement/first responder, I'd contact the Glock Law Enforcement rep, and discuss the issue with him. Second, go to a gunshop that has another G30SF and see if you can replicate the problem with another pistol. If yours is unique, then you'll need to re-contact Glock, describe the problem and your comparison results. If you aren't satisfied with the answer, I'd politely, but firmly ask to speak with the department supervisor, escalating things up the chain of command. Glock's Customer Support department is usually superlative in their assistance-if there's a problem, they're usually excellent in expeditiously resolving it. Again, the polite but firm approach (as opposed to being aggressively irate and confrontational) will probably be effective.
Best, Jon
Good idea. Going to gun store tonight.
Sure enouth the problem could not be replicated with the new gun.
This is a known problem with the G21s. Some agencies, to include Mesa PD had this occur.
The trigger bar is too thick and it's dragging.
To quote from a post on the 10-8 forums:
I have been aware of the trigger bar issue with glock 21 for some time. There is an issue with certain 21s and glock now offers three trigger bars for various serial number ranges. Off the top of my head, there is the standard 4256, a 4256 +1, and a 4256 +1+. And this is something that is covered in the glock armorer’s course.
Try the 4256+1
I have a somewhat related problem. I always swap glock serrated triggers for G17 smooth triggers.
I did that swap in my recent G26 now if the trigger is held after each shot the slide will not close completely about 1/16 of an inch. When I release the trigger slightly in order to reset it, the slide goes into battery.
If I cycle the slide without holding the trigger it goes into battery.
I compared the new G17 trigger bar and the stock G26 trigger bar the 17 goes not have a tab so its a little different. I will try to modify the G17 trigger bar with a file to match the stock G26 trigger bar.
I have done this swap on G19 and G23 both worked flawlessly.
Paul
The G30SF comes from the factory with the 4256-1 triggerbar; Glock standardized on it for all G21/G30 production subsequent to(in the 2006 timeframe) the LAPD problems (not all, or even most of the problems had to do with original 4256 triggerbar-the major problem was accumulated oil and oil-attracted debris in the firing pin channel; despite Glock factory specification in users manuals and armorers courses that oil NOT be introduced into the firing pin channel, concurrently issued LAPD Beretta 92's conversely specify that the firing pin/firing pin channels SHOULD receive lubrication, both at the breechface firing pin hole and at the rear of the firing pin...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened next to the newly-authorized Glocks).
That said, there obviously WERE some triggerbar issues on some G21s; the 4256-1 triggerbar featured a revised angle(s) and vertical extension (the part that impinges on the firing pin safety) to allow for more striker "oomph" and firing pin safety activation/deactivation during the firing sequence. Although I'd experienced zero problems with my personal 3rd Generation G21, I did have Glock swap out my 4256 with the revised 4256-1 triggerbar as preventive maintenance/peace of mind, if nothing else. Glock's position as laid out in the current Armorers Course is that if there isn't a problem with G21 light strikes, the triggerbar doesn't need to be replaced.
Based on the original poster's description of the problem, I'm now suspecting that the problem has less to do with the triggerbar per se, and may have to do with the molding/molding detail in/of the receiver shell itself, on the side where the trigerbar travels, or perhaps with the trigger mechanism housing piece, especially since his problem has occurred with both the original and a replacement triggerbar (along with a replacement recoil spring assembly and magazine springs).
The Mesa PD issues are old news; part of the controversy was that Mesa personnel decided to broadcast the problem without getting with their Glock LE Rep for problem identification/resolution first. I have no idea if or how the Mesa issues (if there were in fact substantive issues) were resolved.
While no handgun is perfect, I'm more impressed with Glocks than most others-both in terms of the inherent quality of the guns themselves, and in the aftermarket support structure for both LE and general consumers.
Best, Jon
It looks like my particular sample had extra metal on the inside of the slide or the trigger bars are too thick. Enougth that the trigger bar and slide are making contact. One bad apple does not affect the rest of the basket. I will say that once it went back to the factory this should have been dealt with with more than just the firing of two full magazines and change of springs. The shiny marking on the trigger bar should have been evidence (to someone who does solely that for a living) that rubbing was taking place.
My G21sf has similar markings at the trigger bar (though i have not experienced any problems in 700 rounds).
I can not use this gun again for anything other than fun or sub-compact category at GSSF matches. Funny part is that i won the gun at a GSSF match and spent almost the cost of it in ammo and Fed Ex trying to figure out the problem.
PL, you have a PM headed to you.
Best, Jon
4256 trigger bar wasn't a problem except for some users. The -1 adds a little extra oomph for additional insurance.
Quick examination of newer and older frames incorporating each shows little difference in pertinent areas.
These are some photos I took for comparison, for those that aren't aware of the differences.
Tough to diagnose without seeing. Find a competent and experienced armorer to help locally. Or send it home again.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/4256%20Trigger%20Bar/IMG_4998.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/4256%20Trigger%20Bar/IMG_4990.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/4256%20Trigger%20Bar/IMG_4983.jpg
FirearmsFan
02-26-09, 19:33
Know this is an old thread. Any new developments on this subject. I've got a 30 SF exhibiting the same problem. Slide is rubbing excessively causing malfunctions exactly as described. Have ruled out magazines, ammo, recoil spring assembly and I'm reluctant to send it back. PLCedeno, you said you sent yours in and they didn't address the problem. This is what bothers me.
Call Glock CS and explain the problem. Ask for a call tag so's you don't have to pay shipping. They're CS is quite possibly the best in the industry and they will make it right
The Mesa PD issues are old news; part of the controversy was that Mesa personnel decided to broadcast the problem without getting with their Glock LE Rep for problem identification/resolution first. I have no idea if or how the Mesa issues (if there were in fact substantive issues) were resolved.
The Mesa PD information was actually released via teletype by an officer from another agency. I got information from him, only by getting his Chief involved. I suspect he is sorry he released something he had no direct knowledge of. Mesa was tired of the press and declined to talk to me, but I learned through other means that the problem was quickly resolved, and communications with other agencies was a bit more circumspect.
FirearmsFan
03-15-09, 16:39
Call Glock CS and explain the problem. Ask for a call tag so's you don't have to pay shipping. They're CS is quite possibly the best in the industry and they will make it right
They received it on a Thursday, called me on the following Tuesday. Told me nothing was wrong with it, but changed the trigger bar and recoil spring. Had the pistol that following Friday, so 6 business days and 3 of it was fedex. Fired 150 rounds on Saturday with the same crappy range ammo with no problems. The slide did drag a few times, because I could feel it after recoil settled. Is still dragging and this is "normal" they say. Still cannot feel confident putting it in the carry rotation, dammit. As the original poster stated, it will remain a range gun, unfortunately. It will also most likely become a beater that gets abused like the dirty slut that it is.:o
Know this is an old thread. Any new developments on this subject. I've got a 30 SF exhibiting the same problem. Slide is rubbing excessively causing malfunctions exactly as described. Have ruled out magazines, ammo, recoil spring assembly and I'm reluctant to send it back. PLCedeno, you said you sent yours in and they didn't address the problem. This is what bothers me.
I was told an entire magazine was shot and they could not replicate the problem. I was also told i would be sent an extra magazine as an apology for not getting the pistol on the day i was told it would arrive (confirmed twice) because i took a day off from work to receive it. Well i never got the magazine that i didnt want anyway. The gun belongs to someone else now.
FirearmsFan
03-15-09, 23:11
I was told an entire magazine was shot and they could not replicate the problem. I was also told i would be sent an extra magazine as an apology for not getting the pistol on the day i was told it would arrive (confirmed twice) because i took a day off from work to receive it. Well i never got the magazine that i didnt want anyway. The gun belongs to someone else now.
I'm disappointed to say the least, because my expectations of this "new" model were high, from previous experience with glocks. If I wanted a range gun, would have gotten something else for sure.
Steelblitz
03-16-09, 02:05
My wife bought a new G30SF about 3-4 weeks ago that has been nothing but dissapointing to say the least. Unfortunately she won't carry it and I don't want her to also, it is horribly unreliable. From the first box of 50 rounds she put through it, in 2 out of 5 rounds she would get a stoppage. It would be out of battery by maybe 1/8 inch. A light nudge on the rear of the upper and it would lock up and fire fine. She was running 185gr jhp at first. I had my G21 (which I've owned for 15 years and has been 100% reliable) with me and ran some of her ammo through mine flawlessly. She tried her other mag with no improvement. I also tried shooting her G30 and had similar results as her.
Next time at the range we had 230 gr fmj on hand along with more 185 jhp. She rarely had that problem thsi time of not going into battery fully, maybe 1 in 30 rounds, but the bigger problem now was repeated FTF, exclusively with the 230 fmj. The round was getting pushed into the chamber about half way and it would get stuck with the nose angled upwards most of the time. I tried both ammo types in my 21 again and they both ran flawless. I even saved a few rounds of each and miced them out at home and they were good.
When I was at home that night, I reloaded some empty shells with just bullets that night to hand cycle and watch the 30 compared to the 21. The 30 really jumps the entire round up and out of the mag. The action is no where as smooth as my second generation 21 (made in 94). The 21 has the round entering the chamber fairly straight from what I remember and the 30 had the tail end up high, low, wherever it wanted to go it seems. I know the dynamics isnt the same cycling by hand versus actually firing the round, but the overall action of the round feeding from the mag into the chamber looked rough on the G30.
I'm putting a call into Glock Monday to see what they say. It's getting expensive and outright annoying with the stoppages just plinking with this as the G30 of hers has established no reliability for a carry gun at this point. I'll report back what Glock say, but if anybody has any tips or knows a competent Glock armorer near Gettysburg, shoot me a message or post up.
FirearmsFan
03-16-09, 07:46
Hope you make some headway on this. Keep me posted please, I'm still interested in a resolution. Good luck.
My wife bought a new G30SF about 3-4 weeks ago that has been nothing but dissapointing to say the least. Unfortunately she won't carry it and I don't want her to also, it is horribly unreliable. From the first box of 50 rounds she put through it, in 2 out of 5 rounds she would get a stoppage. It would be out of battery by maybe 1/8 inch. A light nudge on the rear of the upper and it would lock up and fire fine. She was running 185gr jhp at first. I had my G21 (which I've owned for 15 years and has been 100% reliable) with me and ran some of her ammo through mine flawlessly. She tried her other mag with no improvement. I also tried shooting her G30 and had similar results as her.
Next time at the range we had 230 gr fmj on hand along with more 185 jhp. She rarely had that problem thsi time of not going into battery fully, maybe 1 in 30 rounds, but the bigger problem now was repeated FTF, exclusively with the 230 fmj. The round was getting pushed into the chamber about half way and it would get stuck with the nose angled upwards most of the time. I tried both ammo types in my 21 again and they both ran flawless. I even saved a few rounds of each and miced them out at home and they were good.
When I was at home that night, I reloaded some empty shells with just bullets that night to hand cycle and watch the 30 compared to the 21. The 30 really jumps the entire round up and out of the mag. The action is no where as smooth as my second generation 21 (made in 94). The 21 has the round entering the chamber fairly straight from what I remember and the 30 had the tail end up high, low, wherever it wanted to go it seems. I know the dynamics isnt the same cycling by hand versus actually firing the round, but the overall action of the round feeding from the mag into the chamber looked rough on the G30.
I'm putting a call into Glock Monday to see what they say. It's getting expensive and outright annoying with the stoppages just plinking with this as the G30 of hers has established no reliability for a carry gun at this point. I'll report back what Glock say, but if anybody has any tips or knows a competent Glock armorer near Gettysburg, shoot me a message or post up.
The result will most likely be the same as that of FirearmaFan and i. Good luck though as i am very interested to see if there is a reaction in Smyrna.
Unfortunately, the company won't be able to examine anything the shooter brings to the table.
I'mGatMan!
03-18-09, 08:35
Unfortunately, the company won't be able to examine anything the shooter brings to the table.
Can you clarify this for us? Not quite sure what it means.
Can you clarify this for us? Not quite sure what it means.
I believe he is trying to say that perhaps all three shooters could be influencing the malfunctions. He seems to forget the beginning of the tread. I could prevent the gun from going into battery simply by squeezing it tightly unloaded. Tried this with another G30 at the gun store and could not replicate. Clearly something was not right with the gun between the trigger bar and the inside of the frame.
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