View Full Version : Low Back Pressure Suppressors - Opinions and Recommendations
So I’m in the market for a suppressor that will primarily be used on an 5.56 SBR but would also be swapped around.
I have not selected or built the 11.5” upper yet and was contemplating all the components needed to tune it to run suppressed and unsuppressed. Then I started reading about the new OSS suppressors but it seems there isn’t much experience with the new models. I am also reading about the NG2 MAXFLO technology as well as some new more traditional baffle designs claiming reduced back pressure like the Q and SIG models.
I will admit, the idea of a suppressor that gives me good at ear dB reduction and doesn’t need adjustable GBs, bolt carriers, etc to tune it is very appealing. I would love to just run a properly ported barrel with a standard GB so the OSS and NG2 designs are very intriguing.
I’m interested to hear your opinions on this. Is it better to just build a tunable rifle and use a more proven design? Are baffleless suppressors the way of the future? What models do you recommend regardless of technology?
Furbyballer
01-08-19, 13:56
So I’m in the market for a suppressor that will primarily be used on an 5.56 SBR but would also be swapped around.
I have not selected or built the 11.5” upper yet and was contemplating all the components needed to tune it to run suppressed and unsuppressed. Then I started reading about the new OSS suppressors but it seems there isn’t much experience with the new models. I am also reading about the NG2 MAXFLO technology as well as some new more traditional baffle designs claiming reduced back pressure like the Q and SIG models.
I will admit, the idea of a suppressor that gives me good at ear dB reduction and doesn’t need adjustable GBs, bolt carriers, etc to tune it is very appealing. I would love to just run a properly ported barrel with a standard GB so the OSS and NG2 designs are very intriguing.
I’m interested to hear your opinions on this. Is it better to just build a tunable rifle and use a more proven design? Are baffleless suppressors the way of the future? What models do you recommend regardless of technology?
I still think its very hard to beat a surefire RC2 for an 11.5 556 gun. I own several and they all work great on properly ported barrels. I want to try a dead air nomad, Q trashpanda/lefty at some point as well and CSG hyperion cans also are intriguing. I have zero interest in trying the oss and other flow through designs as they are heavy and don't provide very useable muzzle devices for unsuppressed use.
I’m more than happy with my socom 556 mini2 on my 11.5”.
Its quiet at the ear
Dont notice gas unless doing 4-6 shots or more very rapidly, and its still minimal.
Its a cut down stag 16” with factory gasport (.075” by caliper, so its only ballpark).
Runs reliably with and without the can. Experience of 1 gun, but I would not consider an adjustable gas block for an 11.5”. Fwiw my 14.5” mid acts the same way, id never put an adjustable on that either.
I still think its very hard to beat a surefire RC2 for an 11.5 556 gun. I own several and they all work great on properly ported barrels. I want to try a dead air nomad, Q trashpanda/lefty at some point as well and CSG hyperion cans also are intriguing. I have zero interest in trying the oss and other flow through designs as they are heavy and don't provide very useable muzzle devices for unsuppressed use.
I had originally looked at the RC2 but the at ear dB numbers posted by Silencer Shop and others were higher than average. At ear dB reduction is very important as I already have tinnitus in both ears. What are you experiencing? How does it compare to others.
I’ll read more on the DeadAir tonight.
Silencer Shop was really pushing the Q suppressors hard the other day on the phone. My first concern is the Cherry Bomb comp which is reportedly very loud and concussive. Also, the “QD” attachment design is a righty righty lefty loose which would require you lock tight or rock setting the comp. Then there are no wrench flats. I like the light weight and the finish but not sure exactly how much lower pressure it is. I know their diameter is wider than most and the lack of a sleeve allows more volume on top of that. But still, the OSS attachment system seems far better and they offer a comp or flash suppressor option.
Granted, I have no real world experience with any of these. I’ve only watched countless YouTube videos and am reading everything I can on the different models. Suppressors seem to be very tribal and there is a lot of useless noise on other forums. Just check out the shit show thread on OSS at TOS. That’s why I’m asking here.
The nice thing about the new OSS cans is there isn’t the ejection port ‘pop’ you hear with a traditional baffle stack, and you don’t have to mess around with different buffers and springs and it’s not as dirty. Also their mounting system is pretty smart so you won’t worry about getting your can stuck on the mount and/or unscrewing your muzzle device if it does.
The RC2 is proven but I feel there’s much better options out there now days. I’d take a Dead Air, Rugged, Q, Griffin, and OSS over a surefire.
Don’t get wrapped up about at ear dB numbers or numbers in general. These are centerfire rifle cans. They are not hearing safe.
My personal priorities in a can are:
1. The mount design. Currently SF SOCOM RC, KAC QDC, and DA keymo rule the roost IMO. I also really like the B&T Rotex V mount design, but it’s not (yet) an option for US non-LE/mil/gov/SOT buyers.
2. Low back pressure. Again, SF, KAC, DA.
3. The manufacturer. i.e. what’s the probability they will they be around to service the can in 10 years should it need it
kaltesherz
01-09-19, 22:55
I've been extremely impressed with my SOCOM RC in regards to blowback / gas pressure. With a Gemtech Suppressed Bolt Carrier and RTV charging handle mod, it's a non issue.
Wondering if anyone has any updated info on the OSS suppressor?
Wondering if anyone has any updated info on the OSS suppressor?
I am interested as well. In particular, if anyone is running them on an LMT MWS platform.
Alternatively, I'd be interested in what low back pressure suppressors to look at or to avoid on what may be an over-gassed rifle.
Wondering if anyone has any updated info on the OSS suppressor?
At industry day I had the opportunity to shoot a lot of different cans on multiple hosts, and as far as low blowback the OSS is king. Even on short barrel full auto rifles I had zero gas to the face which says a lot as I’m a lefty. It’s not just a little better, it’s substantially better than a traditional baffle stack can. At the Triarc booth I shot an oss equipped 11.5 next to a dead air 11.5 and the difference was noticeable. Combined with a taper mounting system and LH thread I don’t know if there’s a more advanced suppressor design out there.
If I was in the market for a new can I would take a look at the new Sig cans they announced at Shot.
In general if you're going for less back pressure and quieter at the ear, consider 7.62 can over 5.56.
There's a lot of brand attachment, but I'd say pick the mounting system you want, pick the caliber can and go from there, read/watch reviews and shoot some if you can.
I went with a Q Thunder Chicken for my first can, will eventually be used on 300BLK but will sit on 5.56 until then. I'll end up getting Qs stainless version of the Trash Panda when they release supposedly this year for 5.56.
Haven't shot with the Cherry Bomb yet, but I had my barrel tapered for it and torqued it to 30ft/lbs.
https://i.imgur.com/pYtH5FW.jpg
At industry day I had the opportunity to shoot a lot of different cans on multiple hosts, and as far as low blowback the OSS is king. Even on short barrel full auto rifles I had zero gas to the face which says a lot as I’m a lefty. It’s not just a little better, it’s substantially better than a traditional baffle stack can. At the Triarc booth I shot an oss equipped 11.5 next to a dead air 11.5 and the difference was noticeable. Combined with a taper mounting system and LH thread I don’t know if there’s a more advanced suppressor design out there.
Thank you for this.
I too am a lefty on the long guns so I appreciate the input.
Sorry, not a fan of OSS. Sick of 5 generations of hype. Like I said the new Sig suppressors are designed specifically for low blowback.
https://youtu.be/8ZB_D61-H_Q
Well, I know I’m in the minority, but I built my 11.5 with the Sionics RGP barrel and Stag lefty receiver. Works good for me. I run the YHM Turbo.
Well, I know I’m in the minority, but I built my 11.5 with the Sionics RGP barrel and Stag lefty receiver. Works good for me. I run the YHM Turbo.
I'm with you. The deeper you get with suppressors the more you learn it has more to do with the gun vs the can.
Sorry, not a fan of OSS. Sick of 5 generations of hype. Like I said the new Sig suppressors are designed specifically for low blowback.
https://youtu.be/8ZB_D61-H_Q
I recently added an AUG to my collection. I'm very seriously thinking about picking up one of the new Sig cans for it. It should help with the terrible piston pop.
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MisterHelix
02-19-20, 10:53
.../In general if you're going for less back pressure and quieter at the ear, consider 7.62 can over 5.56...
This is what I chose to do.
12.5” Noveske with a Silencerco Chimera fitted with a 5.56 end cap as well as an VLTOR A5H4 buffer. It’s a somewhat fat, somewhat short 30cal can. No gas to face.
I also handload for this rifle. My loads are less gassy than say, M193, for reasons I don’t fully understand but appreciate.
Well, I know I’m in the minority, but I built my 11.5 with the Sionics RGP barrel and Stag lefty receiver. Works good for me. I run the YHM Turbo.
Sionics Reduced Gas Pressure (RGP) or if you will run suppressed 100% of the time, Extreme RGP barrel. I have both and they are great.
I like the Sig cans, not the new ones but the old ones are great too. They are a little fatter making less back pressure. You can buy the direct thread Sig 556 can if you are going to run suppressed all the time and its cheap. Its badd ass.
PB
paco ramirez
02-19-20, 23:17
A new model to consider: CGS Helios QD. The below videos are with the standard front cap though.
Here it is on a 5.5" 7.62x39 firing in full auto and semi: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5HAuDagxAU and https://www.instagram.com/p/B5F9P1mgxUe
And here it is on 10.5" MK18 doing a full auto mag dump: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4-2aCyAQ86
The standard front cap allows it to work like a traditional silencer and the vented front cap allows it to work as an "out the front" vented silencer similar to OSS/TDS/NG2/MM/etc but better, just by changing the front cap out. It comes as a kit with a 1/2x28 direct thread mount, a 5/8x24 direct thread mount, a QD adapter which will work with any 1.375x24 Omega pattern mount, a standard front cap, and a vented front cap. All the joints sit on shallow tapers and since it's DMLS 718 Inconel which is 3D printed, the silencer is perfectly concentric. And like all of our 5.56 silencers it has a 7.62 bore so it helps with backpressure and ear sound and also gives you some margin of error if your barrel's a bit nonconcentric.
It doesn’t have a minimum barrel length. The Helios QD silencer is pretty much impossible to kill by any conventional method. We’ve fired ~2300rds through one on a MK18, half with full auto 30rd mag dumps and the other half semi auto and then did ten 30rd mags in a row full auto and five 30rd mags in a row full auto as fast as the mags could be changed, all of those ~2300rds being fired over only maybe 3hrs. Then we took it to the NFA Review shoot. We’ve been doing 200rd belts through them with a SAW to the point the barrel droops. Then shot it more when it cooled.
I am interested as well. In particular, if anyone is running them on an LMT MWS platform.
I think there are some really solid choices for suppressors on the market now, and thats a good thing. Ive also noticed that "low back pressure" is a term that gets tossed around a lot more than it was even 2 years ago. Im not an engineer or designer, so Im certain there are a lot of very smart folks who work for suppressor companies - but for us, we kind of ran into the "low back pressure" scale by accident when moving our suppressors around on rifles that had factory adjustable gas systems.
Full Disclosure:
We are an LE dealer, so we demo and sell most major brands of equipment to agencies. This is important to Keep that in mind, because our only customers (agencies) want to leave equipment stock, want no drama, no mods, no "fixes", and they under NO circumstances want to go back and ask for more money to fix the shit the first pile of money broke. (our sbrs worked great...until we spent money and suppressed them). Private buyers have no issue making changes and adding charging handles, etc to their rifles to get their "perfect" solution...thats just not our focus, and its not our customers.
As to your specific MWS question: There are only 2 suppressors that I will now run on the LMT MWS - OSS and LMT. For 762s, we have 4 MWS rifles (16" and 13.5") in our eval lineup and one 16" Larue - we've used Gemtech, Dead Air, Surefire, and SilencerCo suppressors on all of them and for a time let departments shoot them that way too...now we just keep the OSS on them full time except the LMT on one 16" MWS. The Larue has a factory adjustable gas block - I think It shoots pretty well with the SF RC762, but still the guy who instructs with it will only mount an OSS. He says there's a difference and that he will run his Larue with and OSS on the Unsuppressed setting instead of a Surefire/Dead Air/etc on the rifle in the Suppressed setting - his rifle, and hes a group guy so I defer to him on that.
Our eval shooters really feel that lower recoil impulse and less shit in their face makes it much easier to keep their target in FOV on their HPV optic when running OSS. I do think the LMT is close, but its quite a bit heavier and only comes in an OTB model so you're more limited for options. last fall we had a metro swat team evaluate equipment for entry teams and patrol rifles, but they weren't in the market for 762 suppressors until they worked some drills with our MWSs with OSS. the MWS 13.5s with OSSs ran quieter and smoother than their current 16" AR10s wearing baffled suppressors. (they have quality rifles with adjustable gas blocks too).
We shoot a lot more 556/223 - probably 20x the number of 556/223 rounds through eval rifles compared to 762/308. Agencies also are running very heavy 556 vs 762 at evals so thats where the bulk of our observations are. the 762 guys are very deliberative in their evals and those take longer because the distances they shoot at demand it.
I like a lot of suppressors - there are solid suppressor manufacturers out there and customers have multiple reasons to choose one over the another (current mounts, redundancy of parts/brands, familiarity, etc). I will definitely watch how the newer KAC and SIG models tackle back pressure this year since that seems to be a major focus of their marketing.
IF youre talking about the MWS specifically and are open to any brand, I wouldn't run it with anything right now but the OSS. OSS seems to be rolling up mil contracts lately, and for LE that eval all our equipment, OSS has been the choice almost 100% since the new models came out 2 years ago.
our website sucks (this is a part time gig remember), but we store pics on IG (when we remember) where you can see LE evals and specifically some of the MWS rifles you asked about.
www.sentinelmn.com
www.instagram.com/sentinel.mn
And the post above is exactly why I come here to M4C. I have been a member here since 2008. I read a lot, post a little and transact quite a bit in the EE. But the membership, and the information that comes from this site is absolutley top notch.
Thank you zimmer. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I really appreciate the time you spent writing a well thought out response with background and real-world experience and information. The 13.5" MWS is what I will be running with to start, so the feedback on that setup is very helpful.
And the post above is exactly why I come here to M4C. I have been a member here since 2008. I read a lot, post a little and transact quite a bit in the EE. But the membership, and the information that comes from this site is absolutley top notch.
Thank you zimmer. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I really appreciate the time you spent writing a well thought out response with background and real-world experience and information. The 13.5" MWS is what I will be running with to start, so the feedback on that setup is very helpful.
What he said!
I've been extremely impressed with my SOCOM RC in regards to blowback / gas pressure. With a Gemtech Suppressed Bolt Carrier and RTV charging handle mod, it's a non issue.
With a gemtech adj bcg and silicone mod no can would have issues. Lol
With a properly ported bbl any known quality can will be fine. The YHM turbo 2 is hard to beat sub $400. At over twice the price you're not gaining anything with SF other than cool or clone points.
With a properly ported bbl any known quality can will be fine. The YHM turbo 2 is hard to beat sub $400. At over twice the price you're not gaining anything with SF other than cool or clone points.
Not really. Low back pressure makes a discernible difference even with properly ported barrels. YHM may be good, we shall see.
Not really. Low back pressure makes a discernible difference even with properly ported barrels. YHM may be good, we shall see.
How do you know the SF is lower back pressure, aside from SF marketing? As someone who has a 556 RC(And 7.62 Mini, and 300 SPS) and now a couple Turbo K's on order, SF is behind the game on cans.
Testing shows lower at ear numbers with the Turbos then the RCs. The new Turbo 2's are Inconel Blast baffles, with 17-4 baffles the rest of the way(same as SF). And have the integrated FH on the cap. I'd gladly trade my 556 RC for 2 or 3 Turbos.
They do very well at the ear even compared to the .30 cals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFkhg6TiTss
How do you know the SF is lower back pressure, aside from SF marketing? As someone who has a 556 RC(And 7.62 Mini, and 300 SPS) and now a couple Turbo K's on order, SF is behind the game on cans.
Testing shows lower at ear numbers with the Turbos then the RCs. The new Turbo 2's are Inconel Blast baffles, with 17-4 baffles the rest of the way(same as SF). And have the integrated FH on the cap. I'd gladly trade my 556 RC for 2 or 3 Turbos.
They do very well at the ear even compared to the .30 cals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFkhg6TiTss
My experience is subjective based on several SF SOCOM cans owned by me and friends. SF 762 SOCOM works great on OBR (even when set to unsuppressed), MWS, and KAC SR25 APC.
I’m not interested in watching that video, but the title of best metering can is telling. Chasing dB is typically what leads to high back pressure cans.
My experience is subjective based on several SF SOCOM cans owned by me and friends. SF 762 SOCOM works great on OBR (even when set to unsuppressed), MWS, and KAC SR25 APC.
I’m not interested in watching that video, but the title of best metering can is telling. Chasing dB is typically what leads to high back pressure cans.
And how do you know they are low BP? I own 3 SF SOCOM cans myself, whats your point there?
You want really low back pressure? Flash hiders work great at that. Sound decibels are part of the equation in signature reduction, that's why we run cans.
I’m not interested in watching that video, but the title of best metering can is telling. Chasing dB is typically what leads to high back pressure cans. On a related tangent, Suppressed Nation makes interesting videos. They did the ones I posted about that tested at ear and muzzle numbers for two Rex cans that were identical except for bore size on two different hosts.
On a related tangent, Suppressed Nation makes interesting videos. They did the ones I posted about that tested at ear and muzzle numbers for two Rex cans that were identical except for bore size on two different hosts.
Jumping in on that tangent, I just got my Rex can out of jail.
Man, it is shockingly quiet at the ear for a roughly FIVE inch can.
So far, I've only shot it on my 11.5" MCX SBR with the gas system set to suppressed.
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Which one?
Jumping in on that tangent, I just got my Rex can out of jail.
Man, it is shockingly quiet at the ear for a roughly FIVE inch can.
So far, I've only shot it on my 11.5" MCX SBR with the gas system set to suppressed.
Which one?
Honoris with 556 bore.
I bought it TWO Black Fridays ago. Got caught in the government shutdown. F4 trust.
I think they've discounted that specific model since then, but they have an updated equivalent counterpart.
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And how do you know they are low BP? I own 3 SF SOCOM cans myself, whats your point there?
You want really low back pressure? Flash hiders work great at that. Sound decibels are part of the equation in signature reduction, that's why we run cans.
I know they are low back pressure relative to the many other cans I’ve shot based on direct comparison to said other cans. The signs and symptoms of high back pressure are not a mystery. My personal criteria for center fire rifle cans are the mount design, back pressure, repeatability, FA capability (where applicable), then sound reduction. Chasing dB results in higher back pressure.
Yes, it seems like that model has been reborn as the MG7k 224.
https://www.rexsilentium.com/MG7-K-Rifle-Suppressor-224-p148947022
Got one on the way.
Good to hear that it does a nice job with the sound.
How is the Back Pressure?
Honoris with 556 bore.
I bought it TWO Black Fridays ago. Got caught in the government shutdown. F4 trust.
I think they've discounted that specific model since then, but they have an updated equivalent counterpart.
Thread 'jack if you guys would educate me. As a general rule, will you get more back pressure on a suppressed SBR than a 14.5 or longer? I'm new to cans and just got my Sandman-S out of jail last week, thanks.
The effect of a suppressor will vary depending on gas system configuration and barrel length.
In general you will get more increase in cyclic rate from the shorter barrels than longer ones because the muzzle pressure is higher and powder may still be burning.
Often times, you can get really nice mixed suppressed use from 14.5 or longer barrels.
The shorter barrels don't generally do it as nicely and can really benefit from dedicated suppressed configurations.
Thread 'jack if you guys would educate me. As a general rule, will you get more back pressure on a suppressed SBR than a 14.5 or longer? I'm new to cans and just got my Sandman-S out of jail last week, thanks.
You also get a lot of unburnt powder that can cause flash especially in 10.5" barrels. You generally get full powder burn out of a 12.5" and up barrel. That is one of the main benefits to Surefire cans is their lack of signature.
Muzzle flash isn't from unburned powder. It's from high pressure superheated flammable gas igniting when mixing suddenly with fresh oxygen. If the muzzle flash was caused by unburned powder, flash suppressors would not work.
Yes, it seems like that model has been reborn as the MG7k 224.
https://www.rexsilentium.com/MG7-K-Rifle-Suppressor-224-p148947022
Got one on the way.
Good to hear that it does a nice job with the sound.
How is the Back Pressure?
I have no way to measure bolt velocity, but gas face isn't as bad as my Griffin or old Ops cans.
I didn't really notice any, to be honest.
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Hey, check this out. Just posted today on SSD: http://soldiersystems.net/2020/03/02/bt-rbs-reduced-backpressure-suppressor/
Man, B&T really needs to license a U.S. based manufacturer to make their stuff here.
Hey, check this out. Just posted today on SSD: http://soldiersystems.net/2020/03/02/bt-rbs-reduced-backpressure-suppressor/
Man, B&T really needs to license a U.S. based manufacturer to make their stuff here.
That post and the pictures makes me wonder if it looks kinda like a Brevis inside.
Muzzle flash isn't from unburned powder. It's from high pressure superheated flammable gas igniting when mixing suddenly with fresh oxygen. If the muzzle flash was caused by unburned powder, flash suppressors would not work.
Yes, I understand. I am referring to when you put a mini can on the end of the gun. Anything under 12.5 for you going to see flash.
Yes, I understand. I am referring to when you put a mini can on the end of the gun. Anything under 12.5 for you going to see flash. I’ve noticed that even with 14.5 and 16” barrels, many cans exhibit more flash than an A2 on the first round only when viewed from the side in low light. Usually unseen by the shooter, and usually invisible in good light. Ammo, of course, is a big factor.
paco ramirez
03-04-20, 18:01
Better dB reduction (at the muzzle) does not always translate to higher back pressure (higher dB at the ear/more gas in the face/cyclic rate increase), but it does for most companies that make traditional silencers. Shorter barrel length does not always translate to more particle erosion, but it does for companies that make traditional silencers. That will also apply to most companies doing "flow bypass" type silencers. And it's true that in low light or darkness many silencers will show first round flash. Surefire/Ops Inc silencers have slightly less back pressure than some others because the baffles are ported to send gas to the front cap aperture faster than they otherwise would and they also don't sound great or meter well. The backpressure is still pretty bad on them which is why many left handed shooters don't use them either when they have a choice and/or the experience to know better. The Suppressed Nation videos are good because they show the muzzle and the ear numbers at the same time. They now have a BK Pulse meter which is even better and will capture every single shot at all three locations simultaneously.
Here's something I wrote up on TOS regarding this metering video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y87pu6wMYE&t=
"A person shouldn't just look at ear numbers to make decisions about what to buy, the muzzle number in combination with the ear number is what matters and only when those numbers are recorded on the same day, same host, same ammo, same proper meter, proper mic locations, etc. Take a look at the ear and muzzle numbers for the Dead Air Sandman K compared to the Dead Air Nomad.
Sandman K -
Muzzle: 148.34dB
Ear: 147.56dB
Nomad -
Muzzle: 135.78dB
Ear: 146.46dB
The ear numbers are only separated by only 1.1dB while the muzzle numbers have a variance of 12.56dB. Which one do you think is actually going to sound better in person, especially when shooting near reflective surfaces? Someone buying a Sandman K over a Nomad solely based on the ear numbers vs size is going to be really sad because in real life they aren't even close in sound, and it's only going to get worse the shorter the barrel gets."
I don't have any night videos I can show you guys, but here's our Helios QD on a 5.5" 7.62x39 firing in full auto and semi showing a lack of flash in daylight: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5HAuDagxAU/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/B5F9P1mgxUe/
And here it is on 10.5" MK18 doing a full auto mag dump showing a lack of flash in daylight: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4-2aCyAQ86/
Testing at night with our GPMG 762 silencer on an M240 it won't flash either unless it's pushed well beyond normal limits. Here it is dumping a 1000rd belt of M80 ball in one continuous string, look how long it takes for it to develop a flash near sunset: https://www.instagram.com/tv/B6bgJLZJRKD/
Josh,
Nearly all the cans in that video run 146-148 dB at the ear, which is often much louder than the muzzle.
Isn't the bulk of the at ear SPL just action noise, which is relatively constant except for any differences in back pressure?
paco ramirez
03-04-20, 23:27
Josh,
Nearly all the cans in that video run 146-148 dB at the ear, which is often much louder than the muzzle.
Isn't the bulk of the at ear SPL just action noise, which is relatively constant except for any differences in back pressure?
Yes, they do and they're all traditional silencers, though usually shooting 5.56 through a 7.62 bore can be expected to drop the ear numbers a bit depending on the silencer. Also some silencers just aren't optimized for supersonic use, like the Trash Panda. The testing was intentionally done with a fixed gas system as a worst case scenario. The ear SPL can be remedied with an adjustable gas block when using a traditional silencer. But like someone else said earlier, PDs won't want to do that.
An AR15 bolt closing on an empty chamber is 122.9dB, closing on an empty mag is 122.8dB, and closing on a live round is 116.6dB as measured by Thunderbeast with a proper meter and correct mic location.
Suppressed Nation will be doing more testing in the future with their Pulse meter, including some "flow bypass" type silencers I'd assume. They're limited by what Hansohn Bros stocks and what they currently own themselves.
Hey, check this out. Just posted today on SSD: http://soldiersystems.net/2020/03/02/bt-rbs-reduced-backpressure-suppressor/
Man, B&T really needs to license a U.S. based manufacturer to make their stuff here.
B&T USA is the US manufacturer for B&T Ag (Switzerland). That’s how the consumer market is able to buy B&T pistol caliber cans. They will eventually make the rifle line here too.
hotrodder636
03-05-20, 18:36
This is good news!
B&T USA is the US manufacturer for B&T Ag (Switzerland). That’s how the consumer market is able to buy B&T pistol caliber cans. They will eventually make the rifle line here too.
B&T USA is the US manufacturer for B&T Ag (Switzerland). That’s how the consumer market is able to buy B&T pistol caliber cans. They will eventually make the rifle line here too.
Hell, I didn't even know civilians could buy their pistol cans here.
That's freaking cool news!
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Great info Josh.
If un-modified gas systems run 146-148 dB at the ear suppressed and the mechanical noise floor is 116-123 dB,
what at ear dB numbers are possible using either optimized adjustable gas systems or advanced/flow through suppressors?
Yes, they do and they're all traditional silencers, though usually shooting 5.56 through a 7.62 bore can be expected to drop the ear numbers a bit depending on the silencer. Also some silencers just aren't optimized for supersonic use, like the Trash Panda. The testing was intentionally done with a fixed gas system as a worst case scenario. The ear SPL can be remedied with an adjustable gas block when using a traditional silencer. But like someone else said earlier, PDs won't want to do that.
An AR15 bolt closing on an empty chamber is 122.9dB, closing on an empty mag is 122.8dB, and closing on a live round is 116.6dB as measured by Thunderbeast with a proper meter and correct mic location.
Suppressed Nation will be doing more testing in the future with their Pulse meter, including some "flow bypass" type silencers I'd assume. They're limited by what Hansohn Bros stocks and what they currently own themselves.
Hot on the heals of the last post from SSD, there's this industry event to collab with government research on "Multi-Stage Bypass Technology".
http://soldiersystems.net/2020/03/06/sofwerx-suppressor-tech-transfer-event-29-april-2020/
hotrodder636
03-07-20, 08:40
I am interested to see what may come from this.
Hot on the heals of the last post from SSD, there's this industry event to collab with government research on "Multi-Stage Bypass Technology".
http://soldiersystems.net/2020/03/06/sofwerx-suppressor-tech-transfer-event-29-april-2020/
I'm particularly curious about the 5.56 versions of OSS suppressors. Does anyone have any recent experience with the latest generation of the suppressors? Also looking for detailed information on your setup. Barrel lengths, gas Port size, round count, bcg, buffer, etc
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paco ramirez
03-07-20, 15:42
Hot on the heals of the last post from SSD, there's this industry event to collab with government research on "Multi-Stage Bypass Technology".
http://soldiersystems.net/2020/03/06/sofwerx-suppressor-tech-transfer-event-29-april-2020/
Want to know what the super duper triple secret GLG-20 classified technology is that they're trying to peddle? Here ya go: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/67/7f/18/3d47c3c83e523b/US20150101882A1.pdf
It's a waste of time for anyone to pursue and if it was as good as they claim then it wouldn't have taken them almost a decade to do something with it. It's definitely not as impressive as they'd have people think, and CFD is completely useless for designing silencers as they're too complex for even national labs to accurately model.
Great info Josh.
If un-modified gas systems run 146-148 dB at the ear suppressed and the mechanical noise floor is 116-123 dB,
what at ear dB numbers are possible using either optimized adjustable gas systems or advanced/flow through suppressors?
Todd Magee at Dead Air did some testing with and adjustable block and a traditional silencer. With the other stuff it's hard to say without a side by side comparison with a known baseline host/silencer/ammo combination.
AGBs definitely can improve at-ear sound (Potss described this very well).
The bleed-off can be helpful for a couple reasons and can also work against you if you don't know what you're doing. There's a point where bleeding off too much on a short host can cause so much backwash sound that it's louder than the port. Like a piston dump on some systems. SA also makes a very good drop-in piston system. It gives you a huge spread--from very hearing safe to very NOT hearing safe (but with all the gas you need to run the system in adverse conditions).
I believe this is very host dependent, but this is what I measured on my 16" Ballistic Advantage barreled upper.
There are two sweet spots:
1. The first is where you've just limited gas (1 to 2 rotations out). If you take the suppressor off, the action gets too dirty, or you switch to under-powered ammo, then this might not work for you.
2. The second is where the bleed-off is balanced with the needs of the action. This typically won't get quite as good at-ear results as the option 1, but it really depends on how your weapon is set up (buffer, extension tube length and spring, etc.). Typically this is 7-8 revolutions out. The benefit is that the weapon will typically still run if the suppressor is removed. A short barrel might negate the at-ear goodness if you dial it up too much.
Note there are 4 clicks/rotation. For this study, I shot 1 bullet at each click point. Also note that there's a certain amount of conservation of energy. As the port gets quieter, the muzzle can get louder (the energy has to go somewhere, right?). The bleed-off helps with this effect. Note that this is a game some manufacturers have used to get stupid-low marketing numbers for at-muzzle measurements. A rifle with a huge gas port that unlocks early will give a few dB advantage in such a test. That's for all you dB chasers that get all hot and bothered over a .5 dB difference.
Enjoy....
SA DI GRAPH
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48568043121_bd0cc4815a_b.jpg
Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering
Excellent graph!
This seems to confirm ~146 dB at ear with no gas restriction, but ~136 dB at ear with lots of restriction or bleed off.
That's a 10 dB difference due to gas system adjustment, which is really significant.
Todd Magee at Dead Air did some testing with and adjustable block and a traditional silencer. With the other stuff it's hard to say without a side by side comparison with a known baseline host/silencer/ammo combination.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48568043121_bd0cc4815a_b.jpg
If un-modified gas systems run 146-148 dB at the ear suppressed and the mechanical noise floor is 116-123 dB,
what at ear dB numbers are possible using either optimized adjustable gas systems or advanced/flow through suppressors?
Love the info in this thread!
Thanks all!
I'm starting my journey into suppressor land land this helps a lot.
I don’t know how to pull videos from Instagram to m4c but here’s a video of me dumping a mag through a HX-QD 556 can on a Triarc 11.5 machine gun. Even as a lefty there’s no gas to the face.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7hd84vJ0sH/?igshid=tcj1iiuand9k
I'm particularly curious about the 5.56 versions of OSS suppressors. Does anyone have any recent experience with the latest generation of the suppressors? Also looking for detailed information on your setup. Barrel lengths, gas Port size, round count, bcg, buffer, etc
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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