View Full Version : Lightweight AR build questions
I'm planning on building a lightweight but still somewhat durable and reasonably priced ar. I don't really want to get into the skeletonized bolts and receivers. It will be mainly be used for the range but could be used in self defense if need be. I plan to put a Trijicon MRO on this and maybe a variable 1-6 scope sometime in the distant future. Here are the parts
-Aero Precision upper (No F/A)
-Aero precision complete lower
-Brigand arms Black edge carbon fiber handguard - 12 inch
-BCM Gunfighter mod 0 stock and grip
-Faxon 16 inch pencil barrel
-Nitride gas block and gas tube - Rainier Arms
-Nitride A2 birdcage flash hider
-Rainier arms nitride BCG
-Strike Industries Arch EL extended charging handle
1. Would the gunner profile be a better choice in barrel profile for target shooting and potential competition use? Are these pencil barrels the bees knees? Are over gassed? Or should I get a better barrel like the BRT optimum which is a bit heavier.
2. Is the PWS buffer assembly or Vltor a5 buffer assembly worth the extra cost? The PWS looks cool and shaves an ounce off.
3. Is there a cheaper but just as good option with the BCG? I really like nitride and NP3. I love the how nice the Sionics BCG I have in another upper I built cleans and I read that it has an extractor upgrade. I was looking at Toolcraft and Brownells and I haven't seen any bad reviews on them.
4. Do iron sights mounted on MLOK slots hold zero?
5. are there any other better or lighter options for parts around the same price point?
hotrodder636
01-14-19, 00:20
That handguard seems gimmicky to me...why not look at a BCM or for a better price, the ALGs. I have been very pleased with the ALG unit and it is pretty lightweight yet feels very very sturdy.
I put a Faxon pencil barrel on my wife’s AR. In my experience they start to open up groups into the third magazine.
VLTOR A5.
BCG-Sionics, BCM, Colt, LMT, any of these will do you fine.
Lastly, before you buy parts and put together, I think you need to figure out what you really want this gun for. You mention range, defense, target and competition. Pick a use and build to that. A jack-of-all trades but master of none rifle is just that...not great for a y one thing but can do all things, well, ok...
The Main use would be range use. Im not so great of a shot yet so most rifles I pick up with be much more accurate than I'll be. I really don't see myself in being in any defensive situations in the near future but we all have those what if thoughts. competition would be fun though but I might be getting ahead of myself.
hotrodder636
01-14-19, 00:32
With that in mind, if you do plan on this being a range only gun, I would say the pencil barrel under a BCM rail-I use the KMR and MLOK versions and am pleased. I think these are a bit more universal than the ALG which the wife uses as a “fun gun”.
The Main use would be range use. Im not so great of a shot yet so most rifles I pick up with be much more accurate than I'll be. I really don't see myself in being in any defensive situations in the near future but we all have those what if thoughts. competition would be fun though but I might be getting ahead of myself.
Why is the handguard gimmicky? do you think its not durable or will loosen over time? I was thinking alg but then I saw this and its not too pricey and only weighs 6.6 ounces with the hardware. Alg is having a nice sale right now though.
I just put a light weight together using a Faxon pencil barrel.
I used a Fostech magnesium upper, Mag Tactical Magnesium lower, UTG Pro M-Lok hand guard, with minimalist stock.
I opted for the Faxon gas block and slim muzzle break, as I was using their barrel. With a PSA premium BCG.
I only have about $550.00 in this rifle, and it shoots very well, with accuracy. Right now it has a cheap red dot on it, as I have not yet decided on an optic yet.
But it eats every type of ammo I have put through it.
everready73
01-14-19, 08:48
Midwest has an ultralight that is 7.9oz installed and i would think more durable than the one listed
https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/MI-ULW12-625-p/mi-ulw12.625.htm
Right to Bear has a decent price on a lightweight BCG if you want to go that route
https://www.righttobear.com/RTB-Complete-Lightweight-Bolt-Carrier-Group-Blac-p/sbn16-lw.htm Currently out of stock but they replenish frequently
I would say the Gunner profile would be better for choice for shooting groups and competition. Papabear had a thread with some not so good ffeback on their pencil barrel recently. Might want to look into BA Hanson profile .625 barrels as well
The Edge is Brigand's conventional carbon fiber tube.
TexasAggie2005
01-14-19, 09:36
A buddy of mine has Brigand Arms' Edge 9" (https://brigandarms.com/product/edge/) handguard on a ultra lightweight SBR. We abused the absolute hell outta that rifle. What we did would give most of y'all a heart attack. It'd say it's good to go. As long as you don't put irons or lasers on it, as we did not do any RTZ testing, just destructive.
I built a lightweight Run-n-Gun pistol and used an Aero upper and lower.
I went with a 11.5" fluted BCM barrel. It's on the gassy side for sure and would not lock back at 1st. It runs great now with a heavier Spikes st-3 buffer.
I used a BC 1.0 and a BAD Ti low profile gas block to shave weight off the muzzle end of the gun.
Carbon fiber handguard is a Lyman Tacstar.
The MRO is using a BAD skeleton mount and is holding up well. I might have to use a LPVO scope at the next event though.
It's hard to not throw some v7 Ti parts onto the thing & lighten it up some more. :)
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The Main use would be range use. Im not so great of a shot yet so most rifles I pick up with be much more accurate than I'll be. I really don't see myself in being in any defensive situations in the near future but we all have those what if thoughts. competition would be fun though but I might be getting ahead of myself.
I would focus on a good, solid, RELIABLE build that I could put some rounds through before I'd focus on a lightweight build. It sounds as if you don't have a lot of rounds downrange through an AR. If this is your first AR, you'll figure out what you need as you get more competent through use.
1) The Main use would be range use. Not going to be moving much, dependent on the range you go to, lightweight isn't generally a need unless their are issues with strength, and even then if you are going to be shooting from a bench or static position most of the time, a 'normal weight' rifle isn't an issue. Dependent on how many rounds you put through the rifle, and how quickly you do so, a lightweight may hamper your development - as someone mentioned groups can open up more quickly with a lightweight.
2) I really don't see myself in being in any defensive situations in the near future. Neither do I, but you never know. Reliability is paramount for an HD firearm. Again, unless there is a physical reason, a 'normal weight' rifle isn't an issue.
3) competition would be fun I started NRA PPC back in the day with my 4 in duty weapon, out shot a lot of guys with custom PPC guns every match (would have done much better if I'd learned to sandbag the first couple matches). As they say, it's the Indian, not the arrow. You can have fun, get started, and get better with a medium weight rifle.
The trigger is one area in which you don't want to hamper yourself starting out. Get a good one.
The optic is another area where you don't want to short yourself, but at the same time you don't want to go crazy in the wrong direction. I am middle-aged so presbyopia is a reality, red dots blossom. My HD rifle wears a red dot, a PRO in my case. I shoot that rifle a couple times a year and clean it after each use. Otherwise I go with etched reticle optics or LPV scopes.
My beginner Jack-Of-All-Trades rifle (Jack Rifle) would have:
GM-M37 16" Stainless Steel M4 for Mid Length gas system 5.56 mm (weight 1.9 lbs) http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m37-16-stainless-steel-m4-for-mid-length-gas-system-5-56-mm/
or
GM-M8 16" Mid Length gas system 5.56 mm (weight 1.9) http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m8-16-mid-length-gas-system-5-56-mm/
or
16" .223 Wylde SPR Stainless Steel Midlength AR 15 Barrel, Premium Series (weight 25oz) https://ballisticadvantage.com/16-inch-223-wylde-spr-mid-length-ss-premium-barrel.html
Geissele Automatics - Carbon Steel Gas Block https://algdefense.com/carbon-steel-gas-block.html
ALG Ergonomic Modular Rail (EMR) V2 M-LOK https://algdefense.com/ergonomic-modular-rail-v2-m-lok.html(15" is my preference - I don't like a lot of exposed barrel under free floats as resting the barrel on a barricade, etc. can caus POI shift)
or
ALG Ergonomic Modular Rail (EMR) V3 M-LOK https://algdefense.com/ergonomic-modular-rail-emr-v3-m-lok.html (I prefer the Version 2 because I general don't use the top rail for anything but BUIS and the V2 offers a slimmer profile and more comfy thumb-over grip than the V3)
LaRue MBT trigger https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/ (IMO the best bang for your buck premium trigger out there)
BCM Intermediate Buffer System (A5) Mounting Kit https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Intermediate-Buffer-System-A5-Kit-p/bcm-intermediate-shk.htm (this comes with the A5HO buffer which weighs 3.8oz the same as the H buffer - works well in most rifles)
Magpul ]MOE SLŪ Carbine Stock – Mil-Spec https://www.magpul.com/products/moe-sl-carbine-stock-mil-spec (I prefer the SOPMOD style stocks but this does everything I need a stock to do at the best price point)
B5 Systems Type 23 Grip https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/grip-parts/pistol-grips/ar-15-p-grip-23-composite-prod87078.aspx
Selector/safety - I generally put standard 90 degree ambi safeties on builds unless it is for personal use.
Charging Handle - unless you are a lefty, a standard will work.
Optic - Vortex Spitfire 1X - this is a prism/etched reticle optic - works well for all eyes, old or new - reticle is simple - remember I'm building a Jack rifle
so the lightweight AR's really aren't that useful. I thought it was neat. But right now alg has a sale on the 12 inch v2 handguards for 99$. I might go with that over the carbon fiber handguard. And I see what you're saying. What is your opinion on the Black river tactical optimum barrels? 24 oz with 5r rifling and an intermediate gas system.
If you were asking me, I haven't used any BRT barrels. I've used Sionics, Ballistic Advantage, and Green Mountain (my go to's) in builds, never a BRT.
I think that light weight ARs are very useful - for folks that need to carry an AR for extended periods or extended distances, hunters who actually stalk would find an lightweight AR very useful. Some competitive disciplines such as 3 gun might find a light weight useful.
To be honest, most shooters could get by with a lightweight, dependent on accuracy demands, and volume of shooting, I just don't think, based on cost to benefit, spending a lot of money to build a light weight 'general' rifle makes sense.
My advice is based on my thought process, and may be very well worth what you paid for it. :)
everready73
01-14-19, 18:15
so the lightweight AR's really aren't that useful. I thought it was neat. But right now alg has a sale on the 12 inch v2 handguards for 99$. I might go with that over the carbon fiber handguard. And I see what you're saying. What is your opinion on the Black river tactical optimum barrels? 24 oz with 5r rifling and an intermediate gas system.
The ALG handguards are a great value and would make a very good choice.
I have heard nothing but good on the BRT barrels. They are gassed right and from what I have seen posted here high quality and accurate.
The green mountain barrels 26 inf posted are good quality and my preferred lining-chrome. I have a GM-M8 and it is very accurate.
Sionics barrels are about the same price and a slightly better option than GM these days imo. Rumor is they are green mountain blanks but they are gassed right .076-.078 and radiographed. They are a little more refined than the gm barrels imo
do slim handguards like the alg emr v2 have heat issues or is it more or less the same with all aluminum handguards? I shot a rifle with a med weight barrel and a geissele mk14 handguard and it didn't get too hot but I wasn't rapid firing.
everready73
01-15-19, 09:14
I have never noticed mine getting too hot with my rate of fire. I am not doing mag dumps or anything though.. I also use mechanics gloves usually and have some rail covers on mine.
The geissele may hold off heat slightly better though. I believe the diameter is a little larger.
That being said, I have never considered it an issue with the ALG handguards i have. Seems about the same as the BCM MCMR i use on another rifle
I have a couple of Run-n-Gun events planned for this year so just threw a bunch of V7 Ti parts into the cart. Every ounce helps when running 3-5 miles & carrying all the gear. I'm hoping to shave at least a half pound off the gun.
If you aren't doing these type of events, and you really should try one, you probably don't need a lightweight build.
I have never noticed mine getting too hot with my rate of fire. I am not doing mag dumps or anything though.. I also use mechanics gloves usually and have some rail covers on mine.
The geissele may hold off heat slightly better though. I believe the diameter is a little larger.
That being said, I have never considered it an issue with the ALG handguards i have. Seems about the same as the BCM MCMR i use on another rifle
I would say any gloves would counter rail heat from shooting, but on a hot sunny day bare skin and black metal don't play well together and even more so with heat from shooting.
I like the ALG rails a lot. Do watch on the non top rail models where the gas tube ramps up at the barrel nut. It is a good way to brand a finger tip without many rounds fired and that isn't just a theory lol
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