View Full Version : 1911
Ok .. I want to get a 1911 for my birthday .. im leaning towards the http://www.impactguns.com/store/669278331485.html and this gun has been my first choice for a 1911 .. ive been off and on with other brands such as the GSR, Springfield Loaded, and Kimber Custom II. What do you guys think about these guns. I am going to be carrying it concealed.. i already thought about glocks and that crap... i want a 1911.
Take a look at what Hilton Yam has to say about the series II Kimbers.
Holster choices for the GSR are limited, and they have had problems getting them right over the past few years.
If you can afford it, get a Baer TR, used/good condition if need be.
Barring that, I would get a SA Loaded and ditch the ILS.
Yeah .. ive read his stuff before.. he thinks the Kimber is an awesome pistol.
He has opinions based on seeing lots of 1911s work, or not work, what it takes to make them work, and he explains why this is so.
If one chooses to disregard his (very good) advice, then at least do so knowingly.
He's not the only top level/highly sought after 1911 smith who points out the shortcomings of the Swartz safety.
Have the quality of the Sig GSR's inproved? I had a 2nd Gen I traded off after a week.
VooDoo6Actual
11-05-08, 06:50
Please specify: FBI Pro CRG w/ rail.
If your talking to me id be getting the TLE II
"Other" would require too much explaining,so of the three listed I voted for the SA loaded. I never had a problem with a SA pistol in the past.
I currently am short on 1911's with just an older Colt Combar Gov't that I used for duty for a number of years,a S&W 108285 that I bought in Feb. of '07, and a DW Valor that's due to arrive in 5 to 6 weeks.
Too many negative complaints to risk a Kimber ,although I know there are some good ones out there.
My vote for other would be for Wilson Combat
I have had very good luck with Les Baer and Wilson. I would lean a little toward Les Baer - personal choice on selection of features.
TUNNEL RAT 33
11-05-08, 12:41
I HAVE A KIMBER TACTICAL CUSTOM II AND I JUST PICKED UP A WILSON COMBAT CQB . WHILE THE KIMBER IS A GREAT GUN THE WILSON IS A NEXT LEVEL . IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY , BUY A WILSON !!
Nah .. its my first one .. i dont want to go low grade but i dont want to spend 2 grand either.. Im really thinking about the GSR .. because my hometown shop sells them and springfields ... But for some reason i havent really thought about getting a springfield ... its funny because on another forum the majority was not Springfield.
St.Michael
11-05-08, 13:45
I have a Smith 1911. It's a brand I trust, it's simple. It works. Never fails me. Love it. It ran me about 600 I think. It's a brand name and a great pistol. You can't go wrong.
does anyone have anything to say good or bad about the GSR? or do you guys just not know much about it?
Colt XSE. It has a pony on it. The current guns are well fitted and shoot great.
Why not a colt 70 series. Otherwise I would go with springfield. I have a kimber warrior that I am doing a complete rebuild on- I'm done with all things Kimber.
Depending on how much you can spend, either a Wilson Combat, then a LB TRS, and then no lower than a SA "loaded" and swap out the ILS.
I think that pretty much "tier's" them price vs quality.
I would not own any 1911 with a shwartz safety and/or an external extrctor.
Just my opinion.
Terry.
St.Michael
11-06-08, 10:08
Sig is good for certain pistols and what not, but I would just stick with a good brand for a 1911. Only a few I would own. I would have NEVER got a SW 1911 but it was free as it was a gift from my father. Turned out to be just amazing.
Sorry don't have any info on that GSR brother.
I would go Kimber Warrior or SIS, series 1 1911's.
Springfield or Colt if you're looking at major, off-the-shelf makers.
A good friend has a SIG GSR 1911 C3 that is accurate and feeds factory ammo fine. However it does not like handloads that feed reliably from my Colt Series 70 Govt.Model with a Kart NM barrel & bushing and from my Glock G-21SF & G-30SF. It does conceal and handle well.
i love my kimber TLE. i put about 800 rnds of dirty wolf and reloads thru her before she got her first cleaning, zero problems, which honestly surprised me. i think its a great gun for the money. i stay away from any 1911 with external extractors, after the luck i had with my first kimber. but i sent it away, and three weeks later i had a brand new slide with the traditional extractor. their customer service and speed surprised me. i think abou getting a wilson or a nighthawk, maybe a mars custom somedays. but then i ask, what will one of those 1911's do that my kimber wont? aside from shooting slightly smaller groups and acting as a status symbol on the range?
does anyone have anything to say good or bad about the GSR? or do you guys just not know much about it?
They got tons of bad press initially, although fit and finish is quite good in most examples that I've seen-even the early guns. I have a plain "new"-ish Revo XO (with the nicer finish and the manhole cover replaced by the deal that looks like a faux extractor at the rear of the slide) and has been fine. No malfs in about 1000k. Some will say that's not enough to be sure. YMMV. They are quite accurate, even by 1911 standards.
No malfs in about 1000k. Some will say that's not enough to be sure. YMMV.
I'm sorry, did you mean 1,000 rounds? 1000k = 1,000,000 rounds.
From your list the Springfield has a better out of the box track record. Some don't like SA because some of their parts are made outside of the US.
The early model Sig's had issues and it really gave them a negative image. I love Sig Sauer, but would not personally purchase their GSR.
Kimber is opposite from Sig. Their earlier days, they produced a better product. Now the Kimber IMO is a toss up. Either you get a really good one, or you get a piss poor one. And heaven help you if you get a piss poor one, because their customer service sux.
In your price range, I would seriously take a close look at the STI Trojan. Damn fine pistol.
nicholst55
11-09-08, 04:11
Springfield Loaded - best bang for the buck. My experience with Kimber is pretty limited, but I was not favorably impressed.
I voted "other", and would have no problem also voting for the Springfield loaded (I own one). However, I think you get a slightly nicer 1911, which is worth the extra money IMO, by stepping up to one of the Operator full-size models (the MC Operator, or the LW Operator), or to the TRP models. Best price on a LW Operator would be around $1050 new, best I've seen recently on a TRP is around $1300. I just bought a LW Operator myself and am really pleased with it. They have a much nicer match barrel than the loaded models, so are usually more accurate out of the box. Plus the Operator models are fully coated with Armory Kote, and have light rails.
Yeah .. ive read his stuff before.. he thinks the Kimber is an awesome pistol.
I am puzzled over where you've gotten the impression that Yam thinks that "the Kimber is an awesome pistol". Could you point me to such?
I just finished re-reading an article by him on the 10-8 performance dot com website re choosing a 1911 for duty use. His only specific references to the Kimber pistols in that article address the problems with their Swarz -type firing pin safety.
In that article he addresses and recommends specific Springfield models and IIRC some Colt models, but no Kimbers, SIGs, or S&Ws, IIRC.
I am puzzled over where you've gotten the impression that Yam thinks that "the Kimber is an awesome pistol". Could you point me to such?
+1. I'm curious as well, because I've never seen Yam write anything where he recommended Kimbers in general.
Nah .. its my first one .. i dont want to go low grade but i dont want to spend 2 grand either.
I was in the same spot you are about a year ago. I'd love to have been able to justify a Springfield Pro or Wilson, but I couldn't do $2-3k for my first 1911. The MC Operator appeared on several respected Industry Professionals "best buys" in the "at or near" the $1000 price. I wanted something that would be as near 100% out of the box as possible and have VERY good customer service if it didn't run right. I've got some time behind the trigger now and I'm very glad I trusted the recommendations I read and went with the SA MC OP.
Gutshot John
11-09-08, 16:55
If you're starting to talk about 1-2K anyways for a 1911, why not just got one custom made by a reputable gunsmith?
If you're going to get an over-the-counter model, I'd disagree with all the above, get an inexpensive Springfield Mil-Spec and then have it smith'd/altered for reliability.
I've yet to see a whole model-line of 1911s that isn't a little temperamental. I know a lot of Kimber owners who've been disappointed.
Get a straightforward 1911, I'm not a big fan of the external extractor models.
If you're starting to talk about 1-2K anyways for a 1911, why not just got one custom made by a reputable gunsmith?
If you're going to get an over-the-counter model, I'd disagree with all the above, get an inexpensive Springfield Mil-Spec and then have it smith'd/altered for reliability.
I've yet to see a whole model-line of 1911s that isn't a little temperamental.
For me, $1000 is not $2000 and to go north of $1100 after FFL and shipping charges, was not acceptable. If I was to go with a lower priced model, with the intent of sending it off to a "reputable" gunsmith, then I'd be left with another job. I'd have to spend the time researching and evaluating gunsmiths. Finding a "reputable" gunsmith locally might be tough and if I didn't, I'd be looking at the cost of overnight shipping two ways. That was not acceptable for my purposes.
FWIW, my MC OP is not temperamental, finicky or cold-starting. I have shot all kinds of ammo and it's been 100%. Have you read about cases or heard differently?
Wait til next birthday, and get something slicker.
I've owned a Springfield Loaded and a Kimber TLE II. Of the two, the Kimber looked and felt better out of the box. Its just too bad that it wouldn't work. Based on my interaction with Kimber over that pistol, I wouldn't recommend Kimber to anyone and I'll never give that company another dime. The Springfield worked well and would have made a niced base pistol upon which to work up later. Its a pretty good pistol for someone who doesn't know much about the 1911 who doesn't want to spend more than a grand.
The Kimbers cost more and frankly, come close enough (in price - NOT quality) to the semi-custom 1911s that if I wanted to spend that kind of money again, I'd skip right past Kimber and go that route. (And no, Hilton Yam doesn't recommend Kimbers).
If I were you, I'd either get a well built basic 1911 and learn to shoot it and then either sell it or build it up. Or I'd save up a little bit more and go the semi-custom route. Those 1911s that cost right around $1,000 are production guns with little in the way of gunsmithing or fitting. They cost more than the basic production guns because they've got some extra features that are mostly cosmetic. Some are good, some aren't. I'd rather deal with Springfield than Kimber if I had a problem.
I bought a used Colt, sent it to Novaks for some upgrades that I wanted and for the price of a Kimber, got a much, much better 1911 than the Kimber I bought.
HAMMERDROP
11-09-08, 18:40
I would go Kimber Warrior or SIS, series 1 1911's.
Kimbers Performance Center will make one spin outta the box ... but your are closing in Wilsons and Browns prices ... let us know what you get and Happys Birthday.
Michael
Gutshot John
11-09-08, 18:55
For me, $1000 is not $2000 and to go north of $1100 after FFL and shipping charges, was not acceptable. If I was to go with a lower priced model, with the intent of sending it off to a "reputable" gunsmith, then I'd be left with another job. I'd have to spend the time researching and evaluating gunsmiths. Finding a "reputable" gunsmith locally might be tough and if I didn't, I'd be looking at the cost of overnight shipping two ways. That was not acceptable for my purposes.
FWIW, my MC OP is not temperamental, finicky or cold-starting. I have shot all kinds of ammo and it's been 100%. Have you read about cases or heard differently?
Individual guns may work well, and I concede I've had good luck with Springfield, but I've seen a lot of 1911s from disparate manufacturers, Kimbers and the like, that have had problems. Usually problems that are relatively easily fixed/tweaked by a competent gunsmith, but if you're going to send it to one anyway...well you get back to my original point.
Highway 55
11-09-08, 19:49
Colt XSE. It has a pony on it. The current guns are well fitted and shoot great.
+1
around the same price range as the others you listed too.
Save your money until you can afford a custom build from a reputable gunsmith or buy a semi-custom from Wilson, Nighthawk, or Springfield. The work and care they put in to these guns is worth the extra money. I would not trust my life to a out of the box production 1911. If it is for range work only, choose any one of the above and enjoy. I like Springers for production models.
Production/Semi-Custom - Colt
Custom - Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Ed Brown
Voted Other: My first 1911 was a S&W, can't be there CS if you need it. I need it because I broke my slide stop, I recieved on two days later no questions asked.
OTHER
This type of question seems to keep regurgitating itself every few weeks...the SEARCH function can be very helpful.
As I wrote the last time this was asked:
"Both the new Series 70 Colt or a SA milspec are fine base guns for further customization--the Colt might be a bit better. Be sure to read Hilton Yam's material at 10-8 regarding base guns and modifications: http://www.10-8performance.com/id2.html.
On the other hand, if you are not ready to drop $3500 or so and wait a year or two for a properly customized 1911, then you might want to look at something else. Right now, about the only relatively easily obtainable "stock" 1911 that I would feel comfortable purchasing for duty/carry use would be the SA Professional 5" barrel, single stack, steel frame (either PC9111 or PC9111LR if you want a light rail) and even those are sometimes in need of a little tweaking and aren't to be trusted until after shooting at least 1000 trouble free rounds. None of the other standard and semi-custom 1911's I have observed have proven to consistently offer acceptable hard-use reliability and durability out of the box. FWIW, both SA Loaded's I purchased exhibited significant functional and QA problems.
Any person in the market for a new .45 ACP handgun intended for duty/self-defense use, who was not already wedded to the 1911 platform, would be very well served by the .45 ACP M&P (especially with the Performance Center sear); the HK45 is probably the next most viable option, although I personally don't shoot them quite as well as 1911's or M&P's..."
crusader377
11-12-08, 23:24
Although out of the three listed I would go with the Springfield Loaded because I have been very impressed with the one the I own. I would however, take a look at the colt line particularly the XSE or the series 70 repro. Also, for $100 to $200 more, I would look at the Dan Wesson and STI M1911s as well. These two manufacturers sort of bridge the gap between the production guns and the very high end and expensive custom makers like Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom, etc...
"...very high end and expensive custom makers like Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom, etc..."
The 1911's listed above are more accurately described as "semi-custom" pistols, rather than true custom guns--a title more accurately reserved for 1911's done by master pistolsmiths like Chuck Rogers, Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam, Richard Heinie, et al.
BigJim #1-8
11-13-08, 15:57
Dan Wesson CBOB.
I guess i didnt read as far into as i thought ... where exactly should i read?
does anyone have anything to say good or bad about the GSR? or do you guys just not know much about it?
I owned one for a day and a half, if that gives you any clue.
I'd look for a pre-Series II Kimber. I picked mine up for $550 this past summer on auctionarms.com
I know i dont want a kimber from a story from a guy who is an authorized dealer... weird i know. But ill really look into the springer tomorrow im going to buy more 30 round mags for my ar before "he" bans them.
Bachelorjack
11-14-08, 23:29
I would avoid Sig.
My advice. Buy a used Baer TRS for $1350 ish. Shoot as many rounds through it as it takes you to realize what you like and don't like about it. Sell it for $1300, as used baer TRS guns hold their value.
I would avoid Wilson guns.
While playing with the Baer, find a new friend with a Kimber or Springfield. Fire 300 rounds through your Baer then play with their gun. The differences should be obvious.
Now sell that Baer and try a Brown or Nighthawk.
I've gone through a pile of 1911's. I've settled on a M&P. It's not because I had a problem sinking $5k into a 1911 and related gear. I prefer less of a maintenance schedule.
Im spending around 1000 bucks.. and id want a new gun. Yes ofcourse if i want a high end 1911 id def. look at expensive names.. but i want something in the middle.
I'm sorry, did you mean 1,000 rounds? 1000k = 1,000,000 rounds.
[Dr. Evil voice] One MILLION Rounds!!! [/Dr. Evil]:D
No, typing fast'll do that to you. I meant 1000 rds. Actually, about 1150 if my count is right.
I firmly believe that a 1911 is a gun that ws originally designed to be hand fit by gunsmiths and not a weapon that takes well to modern manufacturing techniques. If I bought an off the shelf gun I'd go Kimber or Springfield then send it to an notable 1911 smith to have it gone completely through as well as having a trigger job, removing many of the MIM parts etc.. It would in theory be as expensive as just buying a Nighthawk or a Wilson combat. THose two guys and possibly les baer make semi custom production guns I would bet my life on. I believe it was James Yaeger of Tactical Response who asked if anyone would drive a car designed in 1911. I think that is abit harsh though I have owned and loved scores of 1911's. Though in the end sold them all. I now shoot sub $500 Glock 19's exclusively. Having shot 10,000's of thousands of rounds through both my 1911's and Glocks. My glocks were generally if not absolutely more reliable. Thats not knocking 1911's. Old school guys that can shoot the best with 1911's I say all the power to them. For anyone else who has not bothered to master the 1911 and written the big check I'd never suggest one. Though I am contemplating buying a Nighthawk.;)
Bachelorjack
11-15-08, 01:27
Im spending around 1000 bucks.. and id want a new gun. Yes ofcourse if i want a high end 1911 id def. look at expensive names.. but i want something in the middle.
If you are firm on these requirements, I would suggest you don't buy a 1911.
Baer's have a lifetime warranty from Les Baer himself. A used one is no gamble.
Look at this differently. You don't buy a "high end" 1911 for more than $1k. You buy a standard 1911 for that price. Anything you buy for less than that will be substandard. Like a used LEO trade in glock from a generation ago.
For $1000.00 you can get a quality basic 1911 (new Colt series 70 or a SA milspec) that you can get customized down the road; better yet, for $1000 you can get a S&W .45 M&P that has a Performance Center tuning job, extra magazines, and break-in ammo...
For $1000.00 you can get a quality basic 1911 (new Colt series 70 or a SA milspec) that you can get customized down the road; better yet, for $1000 you can get a S&W .45 M&P that has a Performance Center tuning job, extra magazines, and break-in ammo...
I hear ya Doc!!! I have a couple 1911s and I plan on getting the M&P 45 and some more mags. For the money, it is a great deal!!!
I love my brothers 70 series Colt Gold Cup that he purchased back in the early 70s, and my Kimber Ultra CDP (series I), but for that go to gun that goes bang and works every time, I will be looking to purchase the M&P. Of course, I will run the requisite 500 rounds through it to make sure of reliability is there and the parts are married to each other!!!
Well i did consider a 226 ...
Alaskapopo
11-19-08, 22:26
WILSON CQB.
Pat
why are you not considering a Dan Wesson?
I voted for the Sig GSR which apparently puts me in the minority here. I spent three years looking for a gun to use in IDPA and IPSC competition and now I have a SIG GSR Revolution STX. It has been the only gun that I have tried that had been gtg straight out of the box. I tried a SA Operator and it lasted about 200 rounds before it locked up tight, had to send it back to Springfield to get it fixed. Then I tried a Kimber and to be honest it was a joke. The rear sight came off and the extractor came out of it. The S&W that I tried was a good gun but it didn't have the kind of accuracy that I was looking for. I ran these guns hard, other than the Springfield which locked up after ony 200 rounds, I put between 4,000 to 5,000 rounds through these guns before I had any problems with them. But the SIG has stood up amazingly well. I purchased it back in January and since then I have fired between 10,000 and 10,500 rounds through it and the only time it has ever jammed was when I loaded a round that was a little to long for it. All of these rounds were handloads loaded with bullseye which is incredibly dirty and I have shot the gun nearly 2,000 times since I cleaned it last just to see if it would choke and I dont think it is going to happen. The only thing I have done to this pistol is to change the recoil spring and that is just part of maintenance. I know that the Baer and Wilson guns are nice, I have a Wilson that I carry for self defense, but if you are looking for a good gun for around $1,00o I would look at the Revolution STX.
Jack_Stroker
11-26-08, 19:47
I've got three Springfield 1911's. All chambered in .45ACP. I've got a Springfield Loaded Champion in stainless finish, a Springfield TRP in satin stainless finish and the Springfield TRP Operator which has their Armory Kote finish.
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