PAP M92 - Decisions

[robstercraw]

I just finished up an Arsenal 107 SBR. Looking at picking up a budget SBR project wirh a PaP M92. I found one locally in great shape for $525 OTD wih 3 mags. I haven’t had my pulse on the pap m92 market as of late. Should I jump on this deal or keep searching ? Thx y’all

[RetroRevolver77]

Word was that the receivers weren't properly heat treated at some point on the newer Yugo/Zastava imports. I believe Henderson Defense posted something about it in their big AK durability thread but maybe do some research. However for all I know they may have fixed those issues.

[Bret]

You can buy them new online in the low $600's, so that's about $100 more. Are you wanting to do an underfolder or sidefolder? The location of the serial number matters if you're wanting to do an underfolder because some of the serial numbers are at the rear of the receiver.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

The improper heat treatment of the receivers is a real thing. Most common issue is the FCG holes being egged out. Best case scenario you get one that is properly heat treated. Worse case scenario you get one that isn't and eventually you have it rebuilt on another receiver.

I opted for a Draco instead of an M92 and don't regret the decision one bit.

[ramairthree]

I built two SBR AKs.
One a PAP, one a Draco.

Just three VZ58 folding stocks on them. Nothing fancy.

The Draco has a way thicker rear to drill and tap. I prefer it to the PAP. Plus CL barrel, standard parts, etc.

I did snag a M85 one with the AR mag well in 5.56 and put a folding brace on it.

[SteyrAUG]

I opted for a Draco instead of an M92 and don't regret the decision one bit.

That's what I did. Also wasn't crazy about Yugo barrels.

[SteyrAUG]

Just three VZ58 folding stocks on them. Nothing fancy.


How does that work? Got pics? I'd love to have a AK with a Vz folder but sounds like a lot of custom fitting.

[Bret]

I built two SBR AKs.
One a PAP, one a Draco.

Just three VZ58 folding stocks on them. Nothing fancy.

The Draco has a way thicker rear to drill and tap. I prefer it to the PAP. Plus CL barrel, standard parts, etc.

I did snag a M85 one with the AR mag well in 5.56 and put a folding brace on it.
I have a hard time choosing, so I just decided to make an SBR out of each; Draco underfolder, M85 side folder and vz.58 SBR.

[ramairthree]

Drill and tap one hole. VZ58 stocks with bolt were like 50 bucks on eBay at the time. File or Dremel one little anti rotation notch

https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/photo45_zpsa1454d1f.jpg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/photo45_zpsa1454d1f.jpg.html)

https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/photo44_zpsbb31f603.jpg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/photo44_zpsbb31f603.jpg.html)

[SteyrAUG]

Drill and tap one hole. VZ58 stocks with bolt were like 50 bucks on eBay at the time. File or Dremel one little anti rotation notch

https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/photo45_zpsa1454d1f.jpg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/photo45_zpsa1454d1f.jpg.html)

https://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/photo44_zpsbb31f603.jpg (https://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/photo44_zpsbb31f603.jpg.html)

OK, first...that might be the coolest thing I've ever seen.

Second, when I did my Draco SBR I had a standard buttstock rear trunion installed so I could use a East German wire folder.

Did you simply attach the Vz58 stock to the flat back plate on a Draco? If so I need a few more details of exactly how.

How do they shoot? Is recoil worse on the Vz stock than a wire folder stock?

[ramairthree]

It is super simple. Place stock plate on rear. Mark where the little antirotarion nub goes. File. Place back. Mark center of one hole. Punch. Drill pilot hole. Drill final hole. Thread. Attach stock.

The Draco has a very thick rear. On the Pap it is much thinner, and I ground down a nut to fit in there for the bolt.

At the time, a VZ 58 stock was about a third the cost of other options, and the simplest to attach.

A folding triangle is better in my opinion. As obviously is the fancy actual folding stock. It’s underfolder l level of comfort, which basically means it beats no stock.

[ramairthree]

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/60131BC9-155C-4A37-8586-044EA14C7528_zpsteezafk4.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/60131BC9-155C-4A37-8586-044EA14C7528_zpsteezafk4.jpeg.html)t

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/AB8070D2-30BA-45A6-AF55-F477642168FD_zps8z2y7mqe.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/AB8070D2-30BA-45A6-AF55-F477642168FD_zps8z2y7mqe.jpeg.html)

PAP

See bolt on inside rear of trunion ground down on the outside so it fits in there.

[ramairthree]

Draco with thick rear, better thickness to thread for bolt

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/DB17D4A2-AFBF-406F-9848-81B39DE54514_zpsfcl5hkev.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/DB17D4A2-AFBF-406F-9848-81B39DE54514_zpsfcl5hkev.jpeg.html)

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/99411B04-81EF-42F8-98CA-F525C3BED659_zpsxqcppmxb.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/99411B04-81EF-42F8-98CA-F525C3BED659_zpsxqcppmxb.jpeg.html)

[SteyrAUG]

Exactly what I needed to see. Thanks.

[ramairthree]

No prob.

You gave me an excuse to go to the range today and take some pictures.

Then stop at the gun store on the way home.

Your fault I snagged my latest abortion.

AKA known as a PAK9.

I know have this, a CX4, and a Kel Tec that take Beretta 92 mags.

If I was smart I would just get a damn Wilson AR 9.

But I keep being a sucker for 92 mag carbines.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/77CE6C31-A0B5-49E2-AABB-D9EE2C0BA40A_zps6albitwz.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/77CE6C31-A0B5-49E2-AABB-D9EE2C0BA40A_zps6albitwz.jpeg.html)

[SteyrAUG]

No prob.

You gave me an excuse to go to the range today and take some pictures.

Then stop at the gun store on the way home.

Your fault I snagged my latest abortion.

AKA known as a PAK9.

I know have this, a CX4, and a Kel Tec that take Beretta 92 mags.

If I was smart I would just get a damn Wilson AR 9.

But I keep being a sucker for 92 mag carbines.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/77CE6C31-A0B5-49E2-AABB-D9EE2C0BA40A_zps6albitwz.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/77CE6C31-A0B5-49E2-AABB-D9EE2C0BA40A_zps6albitwz.jpeg.html)

Looking at grabbing a Mini Draco for the Vz stock project.

[Bret]

ramairthree, I have a PAK9 as well. I threaded the barrel and it runs suppressed just fine. I want to SBR it, but have not figured out what buttstock and attackment method to use. If you figure it out, let me know.

[ramairthree]

Stoemwerks makes a plate you just bolt into where the sling swivel goes.

Basically any folding or non folding stock adapter / brace bolts into that. I do wish it cam threaded. Sights are, even for an AK, rudimentary.

[Bret]

Is this the one you're talking about?
http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/ak-pistol-adapter-type-2/

[ramairthree]

Yeah, that’s the one if you are going to put a SIG or RRA folding stock or brace on.

They also make this one,
http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/chiappa-pak-9-stock-adapter-type-1/

For all the various ACE or tube based fixed or folding stocks and braces.

Edit-
I don’t like any of the braces I have right now for AKs.
I am really holding out for the PSA one that looks like a triangle folder.

I am also holding out for and hoping that SB comes out with one for the pistol HK91 types, like they have for the MP5 clones.

[Bret]

Thanks for the second link. I'll probably go with it.

[ramairthree]

Cool. I am going to install mine and hope the PSA triangle folder brace comes out soon.

If it does not,
I may switch to the version you posted and go with the SIG folding brace.

[Vegas]

Interesting thread. A short AK is something I’d like to do this year. Would love a converted SAM7 pistol but a mini Draco might do it too. Any others to consider? I saw a Polish Hellpup somewhere but know nothing about them. How do they stack up compared to the PAP and Draco?

[RetroRevolver77]

Cool. I am going to install mine and hope the PSA triangle folder brace comes out soon.

If it does not,
I may switch to the version you posted and go with the SIG folding brace.

I think we'll see SIG braces re-classified as buttstocks.

[ramairthree]

I think we'll see SIG braces re-classified as buttstocks.

Possible. I have stamped two AR SBR, one shotgun SBS, two AK SBR, and since that time have braced a couple of AR pistols, bought a shockwave, and braced one AK pistol. (An odd 5.56 version that takes AR mags. As noted, I am a sucker for picking up guns for being odd or atypical to play with)

And also two or three AR pistols. Again, for me an hour spent shopping for stuff on the net, then an hour building it is fun. I would say the majority of my ARs were built for recreation, certainly not need.

Bumpstocks are now machine guns. I assume binary triggers will follow.
It is not impossible braces will become stocks, and shockwaves will become SBS. At least with these, unlike no new machine guns requiring destroying bumpsrocks, I guess the option to remove the brace or stamp them will be there.

Either way,
I have firmly decided I do not like AR tube braces on AKs.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/BA144D31-64B6-4DDC-886C-F6D21E36735E_zpszesuxf1c.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/BA144D31-64B6-4DDC-886C-F6D21E36735E_zpszesuxf1c.jpeg.html)

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/E94CD552-DA8B-4CD9-B48A-2847C8746881_zpst1ulreve.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/E94CD552-DA8B-4CD9-B48A-2847C8746881_zpst1ulreve.jpeg.html)u

[Chris Bonesteel]

Either way,
I have firmly decided I do not like AR tube braces on AKs.



Maybe youll like our new bonesteel arms galil style arm braces, they should be available and shipping in less than 3 weeks

[ramairthree]

Maybe youll like our new bonesteel arms galil style arm braces, they should be available and shipping in less than 3 weeks

Pics?

If it looks like I am expecting I suspect a STFU and take my money event in and the near future.

[Chris Bonesteel]

http://i63.tinypic.com/s64soo.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/1580ava.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/53a25g.jpg

[ramairthree]

Sweet. If that folding brace attaches to the stormwerkz/ace/etc. adapters I’m going for it.

Ace makes stocks but not braces, the SB stuff for AKs is all basically AR, tube stuff.

[Chris Bonesteel]

Sweet. If that folding brace attaches to the stormwerkz/ace/etc. adapters I’m going for it.

Ace makes stocks but not braces, the SB stuff for AKs is all basically AR, tube stuff.
It will not attach to any "ace" style adapters, we dont sell "adapters" we sell folding stocks (and soon to be arm braces) that fit your rifle. Our hinges are superior to the "ace" or "modular" style hinges in terms of weight, strength, lockup, compactness of weapon, and even price. We also do not find the use of 2 pairs of 10-32 machine screws to be sufficient for stock attachment, and prefer to use the factory attachment method wherever possible, or in the case of pistols, that have no built in attachment provisions, we utilize a much larger through bolt for attachment.

[ramairthree]

Sweet.
That is very dedicated to make braces for several different attachments vs one common.

[ramairthree]

Has anyone heard anything about the PSA triangle brace or the bonesteel galil like folding brace?

Since I have a WC AR9 Beretta mag version coming,
I have converted my CX4 to PX4 magazines,
Was looking at a Glock mag carbine instead of just having my decade old Sub2000 G19,
But think I will put the Glock insert into my PAK9.

I definitely have a problem with carbine/pistol companions.

If they made a DE 44mag magazine carbine and an M1 Carbine magazine pistol (besides the enforcer types) I would probably have those as well.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

Has anyone heard anything about the PSA triangle brace .......................................?

I don't think it's received the ATF stamp of approval yet, but I'm not 100% on that.

[ramairthree]

Ok.

I see CNCWarrior just launched theirs,
But it is very unclear if it’s a full on trunnions replacement or what.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

Ok.

I see CNCWarrior just launched theirs,
But it is very unclear if it’s a full on trunnions replacement or what.

Yeah they didn't give much info on that, although it says no adapter or modifications to the firearm. Not sure how it'll mount without modifying something.

[ufcritter]

Yeah they didn't give much info on that, although it says no adapter or modifications to the firearm. Not sure how it'll mount without modifying something.

I just ordered one for the M92PAP from Bonesteel. CNCWarrior makes them for Bonesteel I believe. Has anyone ordered from Bonesteel recently? I've read a lot of negative reviews from the 2014-2016 era but nothing recent.