View Full Version : Colt 733 Commando question
I have a question on this Colt I encountered. It seems to be an earlier Colt M-16A2 Commando 733. The selector is a safe, semi, and burst, and the gun has the select fire internals.
It has an 11.5" barreled A1 upper with A1 rear sights. The lower does not feature the name Commando, but is marked as a M16 A2 and comes with an M-16A2 style pistol grip, which was later replaced by a Tango Down pistol grip. Also the name Colt and the stamping of the rampant pony seem to be very shallow when compared to every other Colt AR-15/M-16 that I have encountered. The light stampings for the Colt name and symbol make me wonder is this gun legit, or some unusual sample done on a day when they were not paying a lot of attention to the stampings?
Attached are some pictures.
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Can you take some photos of the castle nut and receiver endplate staking on both sides? Never say never with Colt, BUT I gave it on good authority that no Commandos left the factory with burst marked lowers. There were a good number of transferable stripped m16a2 lowers that were sold off to a handful of dealers in the 1990s, those trickled our and were built up by owners. Before paying big money for an A2 commando, I would do some due diligence re: the provenance of the configuration. Or just price it like a regular A2, not a rare transferable 733.
Many factory Colt m16s and AR15s have light rollmarks on the magwell. My 614 is similarly light in the magwell rollmark. I’ve seen many A1 and A2 posted for sale over the years like this as well.
The vast majority of A2 commandos are not marked “commando”.
Personally, if I was in the market for a A2 Commmando, I would only buy an auto marked lower unless the price was just amazing.
I'm no expert at all, but my vote would also be that this is an M16A2 rifle lower that someone built a 733 clone on.
It also looks like it has a crush washer behind the flash hider, and I believe a factory 733, particularly an earlier one with an A1 style upper (vs the latter C7 style they had later on) and vinyl coated stock, would use a peel washer instead.
Looks like a mid-80s thru early-90s commercial A2 carbine prior to SOCOM adopting the M4A1. It should have an A1-profile barrel with 1-7 twist and A2 flash hider.
The proper buttstock would have been the plastic carbine stock vice the vinyl-acetate covered "CAR-15" stock -- but those were "iffy" as well, depending on contract dates.
Maybe I misnamed it a commando. I am not sure what it is. It does not have the name Commando written anywhere on it. I am not sure what model it is.
Here are some photo of the staking:
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Your A1-series nut is not staked and the upper has no brass deflector hump.
Looks like somebody built it from a rifle. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you'll need to write Colt for a letter of provenance to know how it left the factory.
The US Government A2 carbines I had were stamped M16A2 but the selector stops were "Safe-Semi-Auto" like the M16A1 carbines.
I'm no expert at all, but my vote would also be that this is an M16A2 rifle lower that someone built a 733 clone on.
It also looks like it has a crush washer behind the flash hider, and I believe a factory 733, particularly an earlier one with an A1 style upper (vs the latter C7 style they had later on) and vinyl coated stock, would use a peel washer instead.
The Upper appears to be an A1--it has an A1 flashhider
Here is a closer picture of the flash hider.
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Ah, seeing it up close that's the old style lock/split washer. That's what the A1s and presumably also the pre-A2 carbines like the 653 used.
IIRC A2 flash hiders, along with Delta rings, A2 grips, and 1/7 barrels were one of the few "constants" in the otherwise pretty variable Colt 723 and 733s.
I think the only pre-733 11.5" guns Colt made were the 629(XM177E2) and 630/649(GAU-5/A and GAU-5/A/A) which usually had the long "moderator" muzzle devices. Later when these devices were reclassified as "silencers" I believe many of the guns were often refitted with conventional A1 birdcage flash hiders.
Is your barrel stamped 1/7? Or can you determine that the twist is definitely not 1/12? I'm curious if maybe that's actually a 1/12 upper.
Definitely looks like you got a lower from an A2 and someone wanted a shorter rifle so they put a different upper and receiver extension and stock on it. Luckily for you, A2 rifles are about $5K more than A1s right now.
Lower looks legit, I have a similar one. Gun most likely left factory as an A2 variant- full stock and 20 BBL.
Maybe I misnamed it a commando. I am not sure what it is. It does not have the name Commando written anywhere on it. I am not sure what model it is.
Here are some photo of the staking:
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If a carbine, it did not leave Hartford without being staked. So someone either swapped stocks for a modern 4-POS RE or it’s a parts gun. I suspect the latter. Not undesirable, as it’s a transferable Colt A2 lower. But from a collectability standpoint it has a few black eyes. I would not pay any premium for that. I personally would not pay much more than FMV for a garden variety Colt m16a rifle for that particular Colt. If it did start life as a m16a2 rifle, some of it’s collectibility has been lost as a result of it no longer being in the configuration from which it left Colt.
Bottom line, don’t pay top dollar.
According to Black Rifle II the 733 is an M16A2 Commando with an 11.5" A1 chrome lined barrel in 5.56 with 1/7 twist. No bayonet lug.
Fire control: AUTO.
Upper receiver: A1M.
Front Sight: A2.
Rear: A1.
Muzzle Device: Flash suppressor.
Handguards: Carbine.
Stock: Sliding.
The 734A and 735 M16A2 Commandos are identical to the 733 with the exception of having the "BURST" fire control.
It's possible the AR in question is a 734A or 735. It could be a 735B, but what are the chances?
Is your barrel stamped 1/7? Or can you determine that the twist is definitely not 1/12? I'm curious if maybe that's actually a 1/12 upper.
The barrel isn't stamped anywhere--even below the handguards.
You might be able to get info by plugging in the serial number here- https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup
The barrel isn't stamped anywhere--even below the handguards.
I'm not enough of a Colt expert to say this definitively but I'm pretty sure Colt stamps all their barrels.
Although I suppose it could be a 14.5" or 16" Colt barrel that was cut down behind where the markings were.
Either way the odds of this gun being a factory 733 seem pretty low at this point.
I've never tried this because I don't own a 1/12 AR, but if you have access to a 1/12 twist AR barrel I've heard if you look up the bore you can visually distinguish 1/7 rifling from 1/12 rifling.
According to information on TOS, ARs with serial # in the 8,000,000 range are 8,000,000 were made in the 1980s. They are generally 700 series commercial/export marked models of the M16A2.
If a carbine, it did not leave Hartford without being staked. So someone either swapped stocks for a modern 4-POS RE or it’s a parts gun. I suspect the latter. Not undesirable, as it’s a transferable Colt A2 lower. But from a collectability standpoint it has a few black eyes. I would not pay any premium for that. I personally would not pay much more than FMV for a garden variety Colt m16a rifle for that particular Colt. If it did start life as a m16a2 rifle, some of it’s collectibility has been lost as a result of it no longer being in the configuration from which it left Colt.
Bottom line, don’t pay top dollar.
It has a two position collapsible buffer tube--like an A1.
At this point I have no idea what this is.
Interestingly on p, 354 of the book The Black Rifle Volume 1, there is a picture of the 700 Series A2 weapon family that shows a Colt 733 Commando with an A1 style rear sight and no forward assist.
However, on page 355 of the book there is a picture of a Colt Commando that shows an A2 style rear sight.
However the markings on the lower of the gun in question are identical to the markings of the lower in the book.
Below is a picture from the book:
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You might be able to get info by plugging in the serial number here- https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup
Thanks. I looked it up. I got the response of Serial number not found.
I tried several Colt AR Ser# and got the same result. Ed, the photos you posted of the Commando from Black Rifle match the description of the 753B listed in Black Rifle II pg 273.
With the exception of the bayonet lug, your rifle matches the description of the 734A & 735 listed on the same page.
Thanks, Mistwolf.
To make things more interesting, I managed to find a picture of a Colt Commando receiver on my hard drive. No telling where I got it from. It is actually marked Colt Commando.
I also found a picture of an advertisement for the Colt 733 and the Colt 723, which seems to be the predecessor of the M-4.
I am attaching the pictures:
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There were a good number of transferable stripped m16a2 lowers that were sold off to a handful of dealers in the 1990s, those trickled our and were built up by owners.
Upon re-reading this thread I just noticed the line above.
They actually sold stripped M16A2 lowers???
thanks
It has a two position collapsible buffer tube--like an A1.
At this point I have no idea what this is.
Interestingly on p, 354 of the book The Black Rifle Volume 1, there is a picture of the 700 Series A2 weapon family that shows a Colt 733 Commando with an A1 style rear sight and no forward assist.
However, on page 355 of the book there is a picture of a Colt Commando that shows an A2 style rear sight.
However the markings on the lower of the gun in question are identical to the markings of the lower in the book.
Below is a picture from the book:
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The 11.5 on page 354 has a teardrop style FA, the photo quality is just poor and it doesn't stand out well.
The gun on page 355 actually has an A1 profile lower, despite saying "M16A2" on it, which was a common thing for 733s, but usually the *earlier* production ones with A1 or C7 style uppers. 733s with A2 uppers are later production guns generally.
Also back on page 354, it's interesting to note that the 14.5" carbine, labled a 723, has an A2 upper. I thought 723s pretty consistently had A1 or C7 style uppers. It could also be a mislabeled very early production 727 though, which allegedly briefly could be had with pencil barrels before going to the stepped "M4" style.
So basically this is all just more evidence that consistency in Colt's 700-series carbines was a real shitshow.
There isn't any mystery here.
That gun appears to be all factory. It should have a 2 position buffer tube.
The stock appears to be still staked. Look at the left side stake. The black ink edge goes across the lockring, and backplate, and lower edge of the black ink is not interrupted.
Near all Colt 700 series 14.5" and 11.5" guns are marked M16A2.
Several early 733/723 were built without a brass deflector and built with the black vinyl coated metal stock.
Some were built with bayonet lugs, but not many.
Thanks, Mistwolf.
To make things more interesting, I managed to find a picture of a Colt Commando receiver on my hard drive. No telling where I got it from. It is actually marked Colt Commando.
I also found a picture of an advertisement for the Colt 733 and the Colt 723, which seems to be the predecessor of the M-4.
I am attaching the pictures:
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That picture of that lower looks like fake engraving.
The barrel isn't stamped anywhere--even below the handguards.
Are you sure it is not stamped past the FSB?
Please take a picture of the barrel ahead of the FSB? Can you also take a picture of the taper pins (both ends) and measure the diameter of the barrel between the FSB and FH.
Thanks, Scott, you nailed it and cleared a lot of things up . Someone else pointed to the markings, but I could not see it because it is so slight and indistinct. I had to look very hard and use my Iphone to take a picture and enlarge it. It looks like a Colt marking. Below is a picture:
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On a different note, if I were to buy a select fire gun that is listed on the form as having a 11.5" barrel, what NFA paperwork would I have to do to be able to legally use a shorter barreled upper with it?
On a similar note, I have an SBR lower that is registered as having a 10.3" upper. What changes and paperwork do I need to do to enable me to use a shorter barreled upper?
thanks
None. The BATF only needs to be notified if you permanently change barrel lengths. If you do make a permanent change, I believe all that's needed is a letter of notification. It's legal to swap uppers of any length to your lowers without any kind of notification.
None. The BATF only needs to be notified if you permanently change barrel lengths. If you do make a permanent change, I believe all that's needed is a letter of notification. It's legal to swap uppers of any length to your lowers without any kind of notification.
Thanks. I was under the impression that when you put in the paperwork to SBR an AR that you should specify the shortest barreled upper that you envisioned yourself using. And that it was okay to use a longer barreled upper, but not s shorter one.
Thanks, Scott, you nailed it and cleared a lot of things up . Someone else pointed to the markings, but I could not see it because it is so slight and indistinct. I had to look very hard and use my Iphone to take a picture and enlarge it. It looks like a Colt marking. Below is a picture:
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After seeing that picture of the barrel markings, what you have is either a very early 733 or very late production 639.
Most likely that barrel is 1/12 twist, not 1/7.
A 1/7 barrel would be marked C MP CB.
It would be worth getting a factory letter from Colt on it.
On a different note, if I were to buy a select fire gun that is listed on the form as having a 11.5" barrel, what NFA paperwork would I have to do to be able to legally use a shorter barreled upper with it?
On a similar note, I have an SBR lower that is registered as having a 10.3" upper. What changes and paperwork do I need to do to enable me to use a shorter barreled upper?
thanks
Nothing needs to be done. The BATFE "requests" to be notified so they can keep the registry accurate, but informing them of changes is not required by law.
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