View Full Version : Anyone made an AR pistol out of an LMT Defender 2000 lower?
I know the lowers come with stocks on them, but it's my understanding that this alone does not disqualify them from being used in a pistol. Anyone know if these particular lowers can be utilized in a pistol build? Thanks.
I don't know the answer. I do know, as an FFL, when a lower with a stock comes in, it get's logged in as "other" and the NICS check is "other" when they leave my store. I assume that the manufacturer ships them to me as "other" as well. If all of those things are true, I don't see why you couldn't a complete lower and use it in a pistol build.
It's legal to use a lower for a pistol, even if that lower was sold with a rifle stock. Just be sure to remove the stock before installing the pistol upper so that you do not assemble your AR in a prohibited configuration.
9mm_shooter
01-22-19, 07:24
https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download
"Nonetheless, if a handgun or other weapon... is assembled or otherwise produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle, such a weapon is a "weapon made from a rifle" as defined by 26 USC 5845(a)(4). Such a weapon would not be a "pistol" because the weapon was not originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile by one hand."https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/3111070479e8a14d9173454d4405c4f7.jpg
A lower sold with a rifle stock is not a rifle. It's an "Other" and can legally be used to make a pistol.
I don't know the answer. I do know, as an FFL, when a lower with a stock comes in, it get's logged in as "other" and the NICS check is "other" when they leave my store. I assume that the manufacturer ships them to me as "other" as well. If all of those things are true, I don't see why you couldn't a complete lower and use it in a pistol build.
When I started my pistol build, the lower came with a stock, but as AKDoug said, all paperwork was marked "other" and according to my FFL was never assembled as a complete rifle from the manufacturer. I had the same concerns as you, but even if your pistol ended up being used in a home defense situation and was looked at more closely by some agency, your paperwork would show that you purchased it as a lower that was not marked "rifle".
I’m about to do just this. Ordered a stripped LMT Defender Lower from Tombstone Tactical for $99. A few weeks ago and just accumulated the parts.
https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download
"Nonetheless, if a handgun or other weapon... is assembled or otherwise produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle, such a weapon is a "weapon made from a rifle" as defined by 26 USC 5845(a)(4). Such a weapon would not be a "pistol" because the weapon was not originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile by one hand."
Correct, but stocked lower with no upper is not "a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle", thus if made as pistol, it cannot be a "weapon made from a rifle."
9mm_shooter
01-22-19, 13:32
Correct, but stocked lower with no upper is not "a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle", thus if made as pistol, it cannot be a "weapon made from a rifle."
You are absolutely correct. As long as an upper has never been attached to the stocked lower, it is still not a rifle.
https://www.typicalshooter.com/atf-putting-a-stock-on-an-ar-15-lower-does-not-make-it-a-rifle/
Tombstone at one point was selling stripped lowers that came from LMT stripped as in brand new and had never been touched with any other part.
To avoid legal complications, you should send me the carbine receiver extension and stock. Just trying to help, you know...
Based on what I've read, what matters is how the manufacturer lists the lower upon creation, and not how it's marked on the 4473 by the FFL. Is that accurate? If LMT is listing the complete Defender 2000 lowers are rifles, they would then not be able to be used for a pistol
Just get the stripped lower from Tombstone.
Here is a question; Colt is sending me a new lower for my 6920 because it came gouged and marred. They are pulling one from the line with a new serial number and sending it to me which means I will have to transfer it. Colt says it will come off the line before it’s a completed rifle and will not be in their records as such.
When I need to transfer it, will this now be an “other” and suitable for a pistol build? Theoretically it would be no different than this LMT Lower in question.
Just a heads up on these lowers....LMT specs are tight. 2/3rds of my Gen 2 Pmags will not drop free. I remember a guy at my club having this issue with an LMT rifle many years ago but figured it was a one off.
GI mags are fine.
Once again. A subject that would have been easily resolved by using the search feature. I can all but guarantee this same question has come up at least twice in the last 6 months.
3ACR_Scout
01-23-19, 06:46
You are absolutely correct. As long as an upper has never been attached to the stocked lower, it is still not a rifle.
I’m certainly no expert on this, so I would love if someone could clarify it, but I recall this coming up in reference to LMT in a previous discussion (maybe on another forum). Someone said that LMT test fires their complete lowers by putting a rifle upper on them before shipping out the lowers, so that could constitute assembling them as a rifle. They recommended contacting LMT with the specific serial number to see how they had classified it when it left the factory. Obviously that wouldn’t be an issue with a stripped lower, so that might be a legally safer starting point.
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