View Full Version : Roger Stone Arrested
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 07:44
What kind of country do we live in that a political pundit, who has said for months that he will be arrested, gets arrested in a midnight raid with full assault gear.
Not only was it a late night Full Elian Gonzoles assault, from the CNN video I saw, the 'assaulters' were pretty lackadaisical. Not that I want ill on any LEO, but if you are going to put on that kind of show, you had better be ready to actually play the part. If Stone was that much of a threat (HAAAAA!!!!), he could have lit the fudge out of those guys.
Can someone show me the last time the FBI went to arrest a white collar criminal in full SWAT team get up? I know the FDA has a SWAt team now and jack-boot thuggury has been du jour for a couple of decades, but really? Hell, Stalin or the SS would blush at this.
For 5 counts of lying to Congress??? Didn't Christine Blasey Ford tell the Senate she had a fear of flying, and that was her reason for not coming to DC for investigators to interview her? Yet it was proven she flies all the time. Situational Ethics it seems. Republicans go to jail, Democrats do not.
What kind of country do we live in that a political pundit, who has said for months that he will be arrested, gets arrested in a midnight raid with full assault gear.
Not only was it a late night Full Elian Gonzoles assault, from the CNN video I saw, the 'assaulters' were pretty lackadaisical. Not that I want ill on any LEO, but if you are going to put on that kind of show, you had better be ready to actually play the part. If Stone was that much of a threat (HAAAAA!!!!), he could have lit the fudge out of those guys.
Can someone show me the last time the FBI went to arrest a white collar criminal in full SWAT team get up? I know the FDA has a SWAt team now and jack-boot thuggury has been du jour for a couple of decades, but really? Hell, Stalin or the SS would blush at this.
And how dd CNN know when and wear to be for the raid? Sounds like a well orchestrated smear campaign.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-25-19, 08:42
And how dd CNN know when and wear to be for the raid? Sounds like a well orchestrated smear campaign.
Bingo. All done for maximum affect. Pre dawn full kit raid on an old man with CNN just happening to be there. Seems legit to me.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 08:47
How else to kick off a show trial....
For 5 counts of lying to Congress??? Didn't Christine Blasey Ford tell the Senate she had a fear of flying, and that was her reason for not coming to DC for investigators to interview her? Yet it was proven she flies all the time. Situational Ethics it seems. Republicans go to jail, Democrats do not.
And how dd CNN know when and wear to be for the raid? Sounds like a well orchestrated smear campaign.
This and this. Same shit different day. I'm sick of the games our federal government plays. Good to see the FBI is still living up to the "Fearless Band of Idiots" name.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-25-19, 08:53
The FBI has now become the political enforcement wing of our government. Answering to no one. You can only hope they are on your side.
It has become all too easy for them. Force countless hours of testimony and then catch someone in a lie or mistake and send them to prison if they don't sing about whatever they want you to sing about. Everyone looks the other way when these tactics are used on actual criminals and those around them but it gets real interesting when employed on those surrounding a politician they don't like.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 08:59
Stone later told an unidentified person — believed to be Credico — in Dec. 2017 that Corsi should do a "Frank Pentangeli" before the House committee to prevent contradicting Stone's earlier testimony, according to the indictment. That's a reference to a character in "The Godfather: Part II," where a Congressional witness claims to not know information that he does in fact know.
Too bad he didn't call it a "Clinton" when it came to not remembering things....
Doc Safari
01-25-19, 09:10
I agree with the sentiment that there was no need to send a SWAT team to get this guy. They could have showed up at his door with two agents who politely knocked and informed him he was under arrest.
I agree with the sentiment that there was no need to send a SWAT team to get this guy. They could have showed up at his door with two agents who politely knocked and informed him he was under arrest.
They could have called his lawyer, told him to come in Monday, saved the gas the agents would have used, and they would not have had to feed and house him over the weekend.
The intimidation factor is much higher if you have stormtroopers kick in his door in the middle of the night, throw him in the Black Maria, and then stick him in a cell for at least 3 days before there is any chance for his lawyer to speak to anyone.
Maybe he will get lucky and his friends or family can push some food and money through the bars of his cell window so he can bribe the vors and put off rape for a little while.
They could have called his lawyer, told him to come in Monday, saved the gas the agents would have used, and they would not have had to feed and house him over the weekend.
But then CNN would not have had their tape.
When do we see the Clinton Mafia arrested on television for their multitude of known crimes? Oh wait, I forgot. Laws do not apply to the criminal Left in this country. This is getting more Stalinesque every single day. Arrest and eliminate any opposition using a complicit and compromised federal law enforcement agency.
He's going to speak live in about 45 minutes. He has to pay a $250K bond first. They are still searching his home.
No tie ins to Russians in the docs.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 10:30
The are big on the word obstruction, but it isn't obstruction of justice, it is some other kind of charge. Surprised that they didn't use some 'collusion' word somewhere.
All I know is, in the the last days of Trump's presidency, he needs to launch about 4-5 special prosecutors.
Dem Party advocate Chuck Todd is convinced this will lead to Don Jr.
What kind of country do we live in that a political pundit, who has said for months that he will be arrested, gets arrested in a midnight raid with full assault gear.
Not only was it a late night Full Elian Gonzoles assault, from the CNN video I saw, the 'assaulters' were pretty lackadaisical. Not that I want ill on any LEO, but if you are going to put on that kind of show, you had better be ready to actually play the part. If Stone was that much of a threat (HAAAAA!!!!), he could have lit the fudge out of those guys.
Can someone show me the last time the FBI went to arrest a white collar criminal in full SWAT team get up? I know the FDA has a SWAt team now and jack-boot thuggury has been du jour for a couple of decades, but really? Hell, Stalin or the SS would blush at this.
Every time a "witness" doesn't do everything they say, including lie to shore up their nonexistent case. I see this as further proof that Mueller will never have anything incriminating on Trump. He keeps indicting all his "cooperating" witnesses! LOL
Outlander Systems
01-25-19, 11:28
Banana. Republic.
titsonritz
01-25-19, 11:43
The FBI has now become the political enforcement wing of our government. Answering to no one. You can only hope they are on your side.
Sort of like like the Geheime Staatspolizei.
Wow. I feel like I’m living in a surrealist painting. The fact that people believe this stuff is bewildering. CNN has a whole headline article on ‘how’ they were there for the ‘raid’.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/politics/roger-stone-raid/index.html
There’s the link but I wouldn’t give them the clicks. Here is some of their article:
The rare, dramatic video from CNN Friday capturing the early morning FBI raid of longtime Donald Trump confidante Roger Stone's Florida home was the product of good instincts, some key clues, more than a year of observing comings at the DC federal courthouse and the special counsel's office -- and a little luck on the timing.
CNN producer David Shortell and photojournalist Gilbert De La Rosa were outside Stone's home Friday morning to witness the FBI approaching Stone's door to arrest him on a seven-count indictment that special counsel Robert Mueller's grand jury approved a day earlier.
They were there staking out Stone because there was just enough evidence lurking in the special counsel's activity over the past week that CNN's team covering the Mueller investigation placed a bet that Stone could be arrested as early as Friday.
Stone's possible indictment has been looming for months now, as Mueller has interviewed many of his associates and others connected to the longtime Trump confidante, whose political career dates back to President Richard Nixon.
The first clue that the indictment was imminent came last week from CNN's Sara Murray, who was reporting on the upcoming grand jury appearance of Jerome Corsi's stepson. As the stepson's legal team negotiated a date for testimony, they were told to pick any day but Friday -- an indication Mueller's team expected to be busy Friday, according to a source familiar with the discussions...
Wow. I feel like I’m living in a surrealist painting. The fact that people believe this stuff is bewildering. CNN has a whole headline article on ‘how’ they were there for the ‘raid’.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/politics/roger-stone-raid/index.html
There’s the link but I wouldn’t give them the clicks. Here is some of their article:
The rare, dramatic video from CNN Friday capturing the early morning FBI raid of longtime Donald Trump confidante Roger Stone's Florida home was the product of good instincts, some key clues, more than a year of observing comings at the DC federal courthouse and the special counsel's office -- and a little luck on the timing.
CNN producer David Shortell and photojournalist Gilbert De La Rosa were outside Stone's home Friday morning to witness the FBI approaching Stone's door to arrest him on a seven-count indictment that special counsel Robert Mueller's grand jury approved a day earlier.
They were there staking out Stone because there was just enough evidence lurking in the special counsel's activity over the past week that CNN's team covering the Mueller investigation placed a bet that Stone could be arrested as early as Friday.
Stone's possible indictment has been looming for months now, as Mueller has interviewed many of his associates and others connected to the longtime Trump confidante, whose political career dates back to President Richard Nixon.
The first clue that the indictment was imminent came last week from CNN's Sara Murray, who was reporting on the upcoming grand jury appearance of Jerome Corsi's stepson. As the stepson's legal team negotiated a date for testimony, they were told to pick any day but Friday -- an indication Mueller's team expected to be busy Friday, according to a source familiar with the discussions...
They could've saved a lot of typing by just saying unnamed sources in the investigation tipped them off... :rolleyes:
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 13:36
Remember, when it comes to Trump and headlines and cases, it is always the worst the moment it breaks. As the story matures or the details come out, the problems and the BS start to filter to the top.
ETA: A lot is being made that some senior campaign person was directed (supposedly by TRUMP) to get Stone to contact Wikileaks about getting more Clinton dirt. Which Stone then did.
So Wikileaks isn't Russians. So there is that problem.
The other issue is that supposedly Stone reported back about 'potential' other info. Considering the indictment uses the word 'potential' that seems like a pretty important weasel word. As Dershowtiz says, you have to separate the crimes from the story. Mueller is always long on story and short on crimes - and the crimes are all after the fact process issues.
Not saying that this is good news for Trump. That no lefty seems to ever be charged for clear lies to Congress is simply infuriating. It also doesn't bode well for Trumpians as they face more House investigations. They really need to learn to not remember stuff, since there is no quarter given.
It also doesn't bode well for Trumpians as they face more House investigations. They really need to learn to not remember stuff, since there is no quarter given.
I'll never understand how such "smart" individuals fall for the oldest trick in the book, the perjury trap. You want to come take my stuff? SURE! Come get whatever you want! But I'll never speak to you and every time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you, because you have all the answers. As a matter of fact, I'm not talking to Congress, the media, my mother or my priest. IF I talk to MY attorney, it will be in a soundproof booth, swept for bugs and all electronic devices left outside. Oh, and I'm not signing anything except a blanket immunity agreement that absolves me of everything, which includes "lying" to you or misleading you after the fact (which guarantees I'm not signing anything).
The list of things I'd trust before trusting a federal investigator or prosecutor would include such things as venomous snakes, water buffalo, hippos, polar bears, Africanized bees and scantily clad "ladies" from Thailand. Oh, and strippers. Can't forget those! ;)
I'll never understand how such "smart" individuals fall for the oldest trick in the book, the perjury trap. You want to come take my stuff? SURE! Come get whatever you want! But I'll never speak to you and every time someone asks me a question, I'll refer them to you, because you have all the answers. As a matter of fact, I'm not talking to Congress, the media, my mother or my priest. IF I talk to MY attorney, it will be in a soundproof booth, swept for bugs and all electronic devices left outside. Oh, and I'm not signing anything except a blanket immunity agreement that absolves me of everything, which includes "lying" to you or misleading you after the fact (which guarantees I'm not signing anything).
The list of things I'd trust before trusting a federal investigator or prosecutor would include such things as venomous snakes, water buffalo, hippos, polar bears, Africanized bees and scantily clad "ladies" from Thailand. Oh, and strippers. Can't forget those! ;)
Because honest people make the mistake thinking others are honest. Make no mistake, this is a coup that will go down as one of the most infamous times in our history. That is if we survive as a country.
Because honest people make the mistake thinking others are honest. Make no mistake, this is a coup that will go down as one of the most infamous times in our history. That is if we survive as a country.
Oh I don't think ANY of them are honest. I think their hubris doesn't allow them to see that they're the least dishonest people in the room. :(
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 16:55
Trump should just pardon everyone and fire Mueller. It really doesn't matter. Let them impeach him. Let them bring that weak-ass obstruction charge to the Senate. Put all the cards on the table.
One thing Trump should have done when all this started was to put a deadline on it. Maybe the same amount of time BHO put on ending Iraq. Not a rush. Hell 12-18 months and tell Mueller he had to be done.
ThirdWatcher
01-25-19, 16:58
They could have called his lawyer, told him to come in Monday, saved the gas the agents would have used, and they would not have had to feed and house him over the weekend...
+1. That would make too much sense.
Trump is going to have to get heavy handed to put an end to this Stalinist B.S.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 17:18
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/in-new-mueller-indictment-what-is-roger-stone-charged-with-doing
All the counts stem from Stone's Sept. 26, 2017, interview with the House Intelligence Committee investigating Russia's attempt to influence the 2016 election and the response by U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Stone is not charged with lying to or attempting to obstruct the Mueller investigation.
So Stone is charged with being a whore in a whore house, big whopdy.
That article is about the best summary I have read yet about the actual charges. One one hand, it sounds like Stone is screwed. He said things and there are in emails that contradict what he said. Now, how nuanced that would be is interesting. Stone in his comments today seems to be making the defense that he inaccuracies were immaterial. Have fun with that.
On the other hand, this still doesn't have anything to do with Russia. People can try to whip up some Wikileaks and Russia conspiracy, but the Trump part of that would be in reaction to what Wikileaks was doing- and was really no different than any other reporter or campaign would be doing. The reality that the dossier and that line of attack by Russia was far more interactional and deep than anything the Trump campaign was doing.
So Stone, the ultimate operative, testifies to Congress with actual answers and doesn't destroy his email? Did he learn nothing from the Clintons?
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 17:21
Trump is going to have to get heavy handed to put an end to this Stalinist B.S.
By constantly lying and hounding Trump, the left is going to release the monster that THEY MADE, that they said they feared so much.
platoonDaddy
01-25-19, 20:18
Stone's reply:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtEci_YHTfD/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=fqiot9uq5qb
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 21:24
Uhm,
So does anybody else realize that Mueller just proved that there was no Trump-Russia Collusion?
All of these charges revolve around Stone and the Trump campaign trying to figure out what was going to happen AFTER the Podesta emails were released.
Why would Trump need Stone to find that out if he was 'colluding' with the Russians? He'd have a channel to just directly get that info- or it wasn't very good collusion if the Russians didn't give a heads up to Trump about the material.
It's over. No collusion. Mueller has acknowledged it in court.
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-19, 03:41
How else to kick off a show trial....
In the CCCP they were referred to as Moscow Trials.
And the mainstream media networks that were informed of the "pre-dawn raid" are the modern day equivalent to the CCCP's Department for Agitation and Propaganda.
I don't know what the FBI's criteria is for mobilizing a SWAT team, but after 30 years of LE and SWAT, this would be accomplished with a couple suits, maybe one uniformed presence and the post warrant service forensics team.
I don't know what the FBI's criteria is for mobilizing a SWAT team, but after 30 years of LE and SWAT, this would be accomplished with a couple suits, maybe one uniformed presence and the post warrant service forensics team.(sarcasm)At least no one got horiuchi'ed this time. (/sarcasm)
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
I don't know what the FBI's criteria is for mobilizing a SWAT team, but after 30 years of LE and SWAT, this would be accomplished with a couple suits, maybe one uniformed presence and the post warrant service forensics team.
1. Because Pelosi and Schumer say so.
2. If it will look great on CNN and support the Leftist agenda.
platoonDaddy
01-26-19, 11:20
Good point, if he was so dangerous, cnn camera man would be in danger, he went on to say, he doesn't own a firearm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAOcLZrQT4&feature=youtu.be
EDIT: rcvd the following from a friend who is a retired FBI agent. My retired work associates think the arrest was over the top, unnecessary, and increased the risk of danger to Stone, the FBI Agents, and the people in his neighborhood. All those “assault weapons” loaded and being handled substantially increased the risk of someone getting shot. The FBI had thousands, if not tens of thousands of rounds on scene. Why necessary? Stone had a history of responding to Mueller for interviews and GJ testimony. There was no evidence in Stone’s house that might be destroyed. It was unnecessary and I wonder who in their right mind approved that arrest plan. Since it was a SWAT deployment, the SAC or ASAC was required to be on-scene. Who is running the FBI?
I don't know what the FBI's criteria is for mobilizing a SWAT team, but after 30 years of LE and SWAT, this would be accomplished with a couple suits, maybe one uniformed presence and the post warrant service forensics team.
Between the CNN crew being there and the way over the top tac team, that will come back to bite them in the ass I suspect. I don't know anything about the guy, but we all know he was neither a flight risk or a violence risk.
Good point, if he was so dangerous, cnn camera man would be in danger, he went on to say, he doesn't own a firearm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAOcLZrQT4&feature=youtu.be
EDIT: rcvd the following from a friend who is a retired FBI agent. My retired work associates think the arrest was over the top, unnecessary, and increased the risk of danger to Stone, the FBI Agents, and the people in his neighborhood. All those “assault weapons” loaded and being handled substantially increased the risk of someone getting shot. The FBI had thousands, if not tens of thousands of rounds on scene. Why necessary? Stone had a history of responding to Mueller for interviews and GJ testimony. There was no evidence in Stone’s house that might be destroyed. It was unnecessary and I wonder who in their right mind approved that arrest plan. Since it was a SWAT deployment, the SAC or ASAC was required to be on-scene. Who is running the FBI?
Good interview. I don't know much about this guy but he mentioned Jones as a supporter and pal, and that drops his creds in my view by many points. That's irrelevant to that ridiculous raid of course, but I wanted to like the guy, but Jones is walking dog doo of a human.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-26-19, 14:30
Good interview. I don't know much about this guy but he mentioned Jones as a supporter and pal, and that drops his creds in my view by many points. That's irrelevant to that ridiculous raid of course, but I wanted to like the guy, but Jones is walking dog doo of a human.
I guess you need to stay loyal to the people that have supported you. Jones is such a crap shoot.
The attack on his house is especially discredited by the fact that the judge had him sign a bond to get out. I don't think it would matter, but it would be nice to get some kind of admonishment from some judge about that tactic. Stone kind of drove a wedge between the FBI field guys and architects of his arrest.
Does anyone really get their knickers in a bunch over someone lying to congress? Kind of like pouring bottled water into the ocean.
Based on the video, didn't appear to be any pre planning which showed in the cluster of execution. If true that there was no evidence to secure and recover, then with his history of cooperation, etc. a call and report time to the local field office would have solved this.
Averageman
01-26-19, 20:00
There are claims that the CNN Reporter on the scene at one time worked for the FBI. It's been reported that he worked directly for none other than Jim Comey.
Banana. Republic.
^^This Exactly^^
This is exactly the shit Putin pulls on his political adversaries, or worse.
Nearly time to take this country back.
There are claims that the CNN Reporter on the scene at one time worked for the FBI. It's been reported that he worked directly for none other than Jim Comey.
I'm sue SNL will do a skit about it tonight.... oh wait..... no that's right they will do a skit about how Schulosi owned Trump.
I've said it a hundred times... the Dems know how to fight. No cage, no rules, no tap outs, no quarter. You have to respect their willingness and ability to defeat their enemy.
I know in America honor is expected but this battle is not completely American and to expect a fair fight is foolish, life changing, and quite possibly irreversible. This isn't Hollywood. The good guy is not going to win at five minutes before the top of the hour.
Moose-Knuckle
01-27-19, 06:30
There are claims that the CNN Reporter on the scene at one time worked for the FBI. It's been reported that he worked directly for none other than Jim Comey.
CNN's Anderson Cooper has a very interesting history and family stock, he is "former" CIA.
Outlander Systems
01-27-19, 07:07
If they’d play these patty cake perjury trap baby games with guys like Manafort, Stone, Flynn, etc. just ****ing imagine what they’d do to you.
^^This Exactly^^
This is exactly the shit Putin pulls on his political adversaries, or worse.
Nearly time to take this country back.
TacticalFun
01-27-19, 08:17
..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/f1b74ed130d8e74de293609b74769018.jpg
Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
If they’d play these patty cake perjury trap baby games with guys like Manafort, Stone, Flynn, etc. just ****ing imagine what they’d do to you.
Ruby Ridge comes to mind.
We are officially a banana [emoji529]Republic. These deep staters are sending a message to trump by using these tactics against his acquaintances.
Meanwhile the DOJ lawyers are silent and let these tactics stand.
Looks like Mueller’s team did their judge shopping very well. The same Obama appointed judge who ruled favorably to the Obama administration on Fast & Furious and Benghazi legal cases, who revoked Paul Manafort’s bail, will now be the judge in Mueller’s case against Stone.
https://www.inquisitr.com/5267266/roger-stone-draws-the-judge-who-threw-paul-manafort-in-jail/
FlyingHunter
01-27-19, 10:38
These deep staters are sending a message to trump by using these tactics against his acquaintances.
Not just sending a message to Trump...to all of us as well.
Not just sending a message to Trump...to all of us as well.
Yep and they can bite me.
Averageman
01-27-19, 11:27
These deep staters are sending a message to trump by using these tactics against his acquaintances.
Not just sending a message to Trump...to all of us as well.
Yep and they can bite me.
I think the more clear message, at least as I interpret it, is that regardless of the power you currently have, we will get you. We will get every member of your Family that participated in your run for the Presidency, any of them that worked on your Staff and everyone even remotely associated with you.
I would guess this will be a slow burn and drag on as long as Trump IS POTUS. As soon t he leaves office, he and his are screwed.
Why would anyone talk to the Mueller team or the FBI? Why would anyone not plead the 5th and lawyer up. I learned a long time ago that Tom never talks about Tom to actively working police, FBI, ADA or whoever. I don't get it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-27-19, 13:56
Why would anyone talk to the Mueller team or the FBI? Why would anyone not plead the 5th and lawyer up. I learned a long time ago that Tom never talks about Tom to actively working police, FBI, ADA or whoever. I don't get it.
I agree, but that is for criminal actions, this is political. I agree all the Trump people plead should have plead the 5th. That is a legal strategy that politicians, especially conservatives, can’t actually use because of the political implications. You also can be compelled to testify if it has nothing to do with you or you have immunity. The problem is that ALL of the Trump people could have been given immunity for the ‘crimes’ being investigated, but could have ended up exactly where they are because these are all process crimes- ex post lactose - being milked for a crime afterwards.
At the very least, you have to set it up that people being investigated by SC and SP get some kind of legal defense fund. These end up being not legal affairs, but political and economic warfare on select targets.
I agree, but that is for criminal actions, this is political. I agree all the Trump people plead should have plead the 5th. That is a legal strategy that politicians, especially conservatives, can’t actually use because of the political implications. You also can be compelled to testify if it has nothing to do with you or you have immunity. The problem is that ALL of the Trump people could have been given immunity for the ‘crimes’ being investigated, but could have ended up exactly where they are because these are all process crimes- ex post lactose - being milked for a crime afterwards.
At the very least, you have to set it up that people being investigated by SC and SP get some kind of legal defense fund. These end up being not legal affairs, but political and economic warfare on select targets.
I understand the immunity angle, but I don't really get the idea that as the investigation progresses that it might and probably will be about you. It seems that anyone new involved would see that they are in the crosshairs every bit as much as Trump and his family. Knowing this would put that person at risk of incrimination by what they say...thus plead the 5th. Just the fact that people are always at risk of a process crime would indicate a 5th plea right from the get go.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-27-19, 15:54
I understand the immunity angle, but I don't really get the idea that as the investigation progresses that it might and probably will be about you. It seems that anyone new involved would see that they are in the crosshairs every bit as much as Trump and his family. Knowing this would put that person at risk of incrimination by what they say...thus plead the 5th. Just the fact that people are always at risk of a process crime would indicate a 5th plea right from the get go.
Once again, we are using a legal process for a political purpose. Politically, you can’t have people claiming the 5th if you want to actually get to the bottom of something. The legal realm is about assigning guilt, not innocence- or even more importantly- getting to the truth.
We are using a screwdriver to try to hammer the truth out of something.
The SC/SP have made this mess as much as anyone by charging people with process crimes. At the very least the DOJ needs to make it clear that perjury and other process crimes are a low priority and are only relevant in relation to other charges/crimes or in extreme circumstances. Leave it in the report that people were not forthwith with the prosecutor- and let them reap the political repercussions.
It is truly sickening to look at the Plame affair to the Clinton email to the ‘Collusion’ to see why the SC/SP is so warping to our legal and political system-and how with out a SC/SP you ‘get away’ with so much more. Who cares if Clinton wasn’t guilty of any email badness- it is pretty clear that Trump isn’t guilty of collusion- Huma was guilty of obstruction and perjury by the Mueller standard.
I really hope the dems and the DOJ understand how closely people are watching this, and how close they have to delegitimization of their authority.
I really hope the dems and the DOJ understand how closely people are watching this, and how close they have to delegitimization of their authority.
Really? The DOJ and Dems do not care one bit about how "deligitimate" their authority is or appears to be. This is about hammering the non-conformers into submission. This is about taking the power from the people. This is a coup and there is nothing we can do about it.
ThirdWatcher
01-27-19, 18:56
Why would anyone talk to the Mueller team or the FBI? Why would anyone not plead the 5th and lawyer up. I learned a long time ago that Tom never talks about Tom to actively working police, FBI, ADA or whoever. I don't get it.
I have wondered the same thing. On the very few times I’ve been mirandized I lawyered up.
I agree, but that is for criminal actions, this is political. I agree all the Trump people plead should have plead the 5th. That is a legal strategy that politicians, especially conservatives, can’t actually use because of the political implications. You also can be compelled to testify if it has nothing to do with you or you have immunity. The problem is that ALL of the Trump people could have been given immunity for the ‘crimes’ being investigated, but could have ended up exactly where they are because these are all process crimes- ex post lactose - being milked for a crime afterwards.
At the very least, you have to set it up that people being investigated by SC and SP get some kind of legal defense fund. These end up being not legal affairs, but political and economic warfare on select targets.
Observing the politics of this investigation, if I were any of these people, I wouldn’t sign an immunity agreement and I’d rather be jailed for having the worst memory in the world and saying “I don’t remember”, than allowing them to entrap me for a ridiculous process crime.
Observing the politics of this investigation, if I were any of these people, I wouldn’t sign an immunity agreement and I’d rather be jailed for having the worst memory in the world and saying “I don’t remember”, than allowing them to entrap me for a ridiculous process crime.
Anyone with have a brain has got to figure that if they talk to any of these people they have a good chance of being nailed with a process crime. Is it hubris or are they scared into it...I don't know.
The FBI is another part of the politicianand unionized government employee crime gang that is destroying this nation from with in.
Averageman
01-28-19, 09:58
Joe McCarthy tried to warn us.
https://media.giphy.com/media/mR9dWo88e5jFe/giphy.gif
Outlander Systems
01-28-19, 13:09
Why is this so hard?
https://media.giphy.com/media/mR9dWo88e5jFe/giphy.gif
Why is this so hard?
I don't know, but guys around Trump think it's hard evidently...and I don't get it.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtFlukGAjh1/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=j7t17ykvoemw
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Thats great. “COLUSION!!! Hard evidence- Trump is FINISHED”
:lazy2:
Moose-Knuckle
01-29-19, 05:40
Not just sending a message to Trump...to all of us as well.
Make no mistake about it, EVERY singe attack on Trump by the mainstream media, late night comedians, Hollywood, the left, the DNC, the Deep State, et al. is directed at those of us who voted him into office.
Outlander Systems
01-29-19, 07:18
List of positive outcomes for you from cooperating with LE:
1)
I don't know, but guys around Trump think it's hard evidently...and I don't get it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-29-19, 08:27
Why is this so hard?
I don't know, but guys around Trump think it's hard evidently...and I don't get it.
You guys know that this isn’t a criminal prosecution? This is an intelligence action. What crime is being investigated? Collusion? Uhm, where does that appear in federal law?
Special Cousuls are POLITICAL, you can’t use legal tools to fight them. Why do you think that Trump tries to delegitimization it - and the Dems/MSM push back so hard?
You can’t plead da fif to a political inverstigation especially when you are a conservative. Imagine if all these people had clammed up and plead the fifth. The press would be going nuts, the Dems would be calling it proof that there was lawbreaking and Trumps would probably be out of office. Louis Lerner could plead the fifth because there was no SP/SC, the DOJ had her back and the POTUS wanted it to go away.
Trump knows this- that is why he was so pissed that a SC was appointed and has attacked it the way that he has.
And when this all ends and their is no Collusion? Never mind, it’s onto the DEm House investigations. Emoluments and taxes for the next 18 months...
Whiskey_Bravo
01-29-19, 09:01
And when this all ends and their is no Collusion? Never mind, it’s onto the DEm House investigations. Emoluments and taxes for the next 18 months...
Pretty sure this is exactly how it is going to play out. Mueller will release his report, it will say a bunch of stuff but not collusion with muh Russians. Then we get house investigations until 2020. This is the new norm I am thinking.
You guys know that this isn’t a criminal prosecution? This is an intelligence action. What crime is being investigated? Collusion? Uhm, where does that appear in federal law?
Special Cousuls are POLITICAL, you can’t use legal tools to fight them. Why do you think that Trump tries to delegitimization it - and the Dems/MSM push back so hard?
You can’t plead da fif to a political inverstigation especially when you are a conservative. Imagine if all these people had clammed up and plead the fifth. The press would be going nuts, the Dems would be calling it proof that there was lawbreaking and Trumps would probably be out of office. Louis Lerner could plead the fifth because there was no SP/SC, the DOJ had her back and the POTUS wanted it to go away.
Trump knows this- that is why he was so pissed that a SC was appointed and has attacked it the way that he has.
And when this all ends and their is no Collusion? Never mind, it’s onto the DEm House investigations. Emoluments and taxes for the next 18 months...
I see your point about it being political and not criminal concerning Trump and collusion. But when it comes to people around Trump they should know by now that Mueller and the FBI are going after them for non-political crimes like lying to feds. I of course don't know what motivates Trump's people, loyalty maybe, but at some point it seems that they would be looking out for themselves and their families. If they know, and should know that there is no crime of "collusion" then they would know that the President is in only potential political jeopardy not criminal. They are in real criminal jeopardy from process crimes (dubious crimes). IMO they should have taken the 5th and let the President weather the political storm, he seems to have the strength for that. I, like many, only care what the MSM and DEMs s say to keep abreast of what the enemy is up to.
I see your point about it being political and not criminal concerning Trump and collusion. But when it comes to people around Trump they should know by now that Mueller and the FBI are going after them for non-political crimes like lying to feds. I of course don't know what motivates Trump's people, loyalty maybe, but at some point it seems that they would be looking out for themselves and their families. If they know, and should know that there is no crime of "collusion" then they would know that the President is in only potential political jeopardy not criminal. They are in real criminal jeopardy from process crimes (dubious crimes). IMO they should have taken the 5th and let the President weather the political storm, he seems to have the strength for that. I, like many, only care what the MSM and DEMs s say to keep abreast of what the enemy is up to.
That's why this is all so insane. You MUST know going in that the SC/SP are there to trap you into a process crime, right? It's what they ALWAYS do! If what you did wasn't illegal but potentially damaging politically, it's going to come out regardless of whether you cooperate with them or not. So what's the downside of simply saying "The SC/SP's mission is to create a crime which hasn't yet been committed. Therefore I will not cooperate with them because they have failed to establish trust or good faith."
So it looks bad. You know what looks worse? Getting indicted after a televised pre-dawn raid by a literal platoon of heavily armed and armored troops. :(
That's why this is all so insane. You MUST know going in that the SC/SP are there to trap you into a process crime, right? It's what they ALWAYS do! If what you did wasn't illegal but potentially damaging politically, it's going to come out regardless of whether you cooperate with them or not. So what's the downside of simply saying "The SC/SP's mission is to create a crime which hasn't yet been committed. Therefore I will not cooperate with them because they have failed to establish trust or good faith."
So it looks bad. You know what looks worse? Getting indicted after a televised pre-dawn raid by a literal platoon of heavily armed and armored troops. :(
Yep, since the Pres was pretty much saying it's a bogus investigation from day one, why would anyone cooperate with a bogus investigation? Since there's no real crimes, they have to make up crimes, and that they did. How come common folk like us see this and these rocket scientist big cheese movers and shakers don't get it? Baffling, truly baffling.
platoonDaddy
01-30-19, 04:25
Regardless of opinion of Stone, hoping he’s the guy who can flick of the investigation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhEWxrjNhQ&feature=youtu.be
Regardless of opinion of Stone, hoping he’s the guy who can flick of the investigation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhEWxrjNhQ&feature=youtu.be
It will come down to how deep his pockets are. That is how the feds win- they have unlimited taxpayer money to prosecute, drag it out, dig things up, etc... They just wait out us poor citizens until our money runs out and we cry uncle.
I'm home sick as a dog.. so I'm watching the Netflix documentary "Get me Roger Stone"... worth watching. I haven't been paying attention very well about Stone, but he has DECADES of experience in dealing with inside D.C. and the media. Hell, I'm thinking he might have tipped off CNN to his potential arrest to come film the whole thing...
There's a bunch of history in that documentary that I have totally forgotten, even if it was presented with a left viewpoint.
Good point, if he was so dangerous, cnn camera man would be in danger, he went on to say, he doesn't own a firearm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAOcLZrQT4&feature=youtu.be
EDIT: rcvd the following from a friend who is a retired FBI agent. My retired work associates think the arrest was over the top, unnecessary, and increased the risk of danger to Stone, the FBI Agents, and the people in his neighborhood. All those “assault weapons” loaded and being handled substantially increased the risk of someone getting shot. The FBI had thousands, if not tens of thousands of rounds on scene. Why necessary? Stone had a history of responding to Mueller for interviews and GJ testimony. There was no evidence in Stone’s house that might be destroyed. It was unnecessary and I wonder who in their right mind approved that arrest plan. Since it was a SWAT deployment, the SAC or ASAC was required to be on-scene. Who is running the FBI?
How long has your friend been retired ? And “all those assault weapons?” Get out of here with that ignorant crap. 90% of cop cars in America have AR-15s and they are the standard issue long gun for FBI Agents.
The issue of arresting stone vs calling him in aside - it should be obvious to anyone who has worked in LE, much less worked with the FBI that was NOT a “SWAT deployment.”
Based in the CNN footage. it is obvious both in the equipment and in the “gaggle of Agents” execution that was no SWAT team. It’s not 1986 anymore. Like most cops in America, most FBI Agents are issued a long gun and all Agents get a 2 part body armor system with a soft vest and an OD green Molle plate carrier. The shirt and tie / windbreaker thing for warrant service is a thing of the past.
Tne decision to arrest Stone vs calling him in was likely a political decision made by the Mueller team and /or the main Justice Dept.
The CNN camera crew being there is the real issue here.
platoonDaddy
01-31-19, 05:26
1st time I heard about the amphibious watercrafts, what a friggin mess!
In the canal were two amphibious watercrafts, out of which more heavily armed government agents came. Circling above all this was a helicopter equipped with long-range precision weaponry and high-powered spotlights.
Four agents approached the front door to the house. Two held a battering ram, and two pointed their rifles at the door. One of the agents shouted and banged on the front door until the terrified owner of the house emerged, barefoot and wearing shorts and a T-shirt. He was greeted in the dark at his open front door by two rifle barrels aimed at his head.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-an-american-nightmare
Moose-Knuckle
01-31-19, 05:56
1st time I heard about the amphibious watercrafts, what a friggin mess!
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-an-american-nightmare
No doubt they deployed HRT and had a drone on station.
. . . just kidding (no not really)
Way back in the 1970's Senator Frank Church, said if the intelligence agencies ever turned inward, the American people would have ZERO chance of over throwing a tyrannical government.
We have reached that point.
The FBI is the enforcers for the established political powers. If you think the Republicans aren't protected then your blind.
The FBI is going after Trump and his people, not established Republican party hacks.
I hate to break everyone's internet wet dream, about gun owners rising up and hunting down FBI, ATF or whoever.
I don't see it happening, most gun owners have too much to lose to go hunting.(job, house,family, etc)
You can own guns and still live as slaves to the government.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-31-19, 08:17
What someone has to ask DOJ/FBI is about other for similar charges and suspects. Perjury charges on an old man, now where they delivered?
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-09-19, 16:49
https://youtu.be/Yhttps://youtu.be/YHto0duokwkHto0duokwk
Here's the video.
The CNN part makes me even more confident that they got tipped off. CNN has made it sound like it was a hunch and they staked the place out. The problem is that they arrived just an hour before the raid. A day before the raid, maybe- an hour, they were going on intel, that was no hunch.
Once again, show me another case of perjury charges where they used these tactics and assets. The FBI says it was by the book, and I'm sure they can twist some manual wording - but the fact is how other people have been treated with the same charges in similar circumstances.
By the book? They probably meant "KGB/Stasi Tactics" by Vladimir Putin.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KNwLBRr/0/cb849660/O/i-KNwLBRr.jpg
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