View Full Version : President Trump Blinks, Yet Again.
Nightvisionary
01-25-19, 13:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wH7JohbHFs
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-to-make-announcement-on-partial-government-shutdown-from-rose-garden
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-to-make-announcement-on-partial-government-shutdown-from-rose-garden
thepatriot2705
01-25-19, 13:35
I’ll never vote again. If we can’t secure our borders, we don’t have a country.
**** it. I’m out. This country had a good run. It’s over
Nightvisionary
01-25-19, 13:48
Meanwhile.........................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q252TZakgGw
Nightvisionary
01-25-19, 13:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l594OKr5YX8
Either Trump is full of big talk and really doesn't have intensions on acting on his threats or the FBI or Deep State has something on him. He threatens to expose them so they threaten him with revealing info.
I've maintained that after about a year into his term when he began easing off his threats that someone was threatening to expose something about him or his family. Just like the bump stock ban. Around the time he met with Fienstein and had her smiling ear to ear, I thought something could be up. Then he backed off for a long time but just recently signed the EO on bump stocks. There have been similar cases like this I can't remember.
Usually the more simpler of explanations is the correct one, but I still wonder...
hotrodder636
01-25-19, 13:50
I am gettng tired of him backing down every time...he needs to hold his ground and show some resolve if he even thinks he is going to get re-elected in 2020.
Doc Safari
01-25-19, 14:01
Rush Limbaugh thinks there's some fundamental flaw in the emergency declaration or he would have done it already.
The only alternative I can think of is that he wants to appear to be the "good cop" to the Congress's "bad cop" so that when he lowers the boom he can say, "I'm so sorry they drove me to this. I have no choice now."
Nightvisionary
01-25-19, 14:11
Rush Limbaugh thinks there's some fundamental flaw in the emergency declaration or he would have done it already.
The only alternative I can think of is that he wants to appear to be the "good cop" to the Congress's "bad cop" so that when he lowers the boom he can say, "I'm so sorry they drove me to this. I have no choice now."
That could be said of DACA as well but he still hasn't picked that can back up after kicking it down the road last year.
SomeOtherGuy
01-25-19, 14:13
TRUST THE PLAN!!!
Ha, ha....
Just another stage in the USA's rapid fall towards totalitarianism. You can call it whatever other -ism you want, the differences are academic when you're living in it.
Not good guys... not good. We had two years to do it, with the House lost, the wall will never happen.
Well in 3 wks time we will see what happens here. Trump did say in his announcement... "Trump ended his White House Rose Garden remarks by noting that if the Congress does not reach a deal by Feb. 15, the government will shut down again or he will use the executive authority for a declaration of a national emergency to build the wall".
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/01/25/drudge-report-shutdown-deal-reached-government-reopen-temporarily/
__________________
SomeOtherGuy
01-25-19, 14:49
Well in 3 wks time we will see what happens here.
Because it's not like an extra 3 weeks just gives them more time to come up with lawsuits, friendly judges, and/or blackmail threats.
If there was an Olympic sport of can-kicking, the US politicians would be all-time gold medal winners, unchallenged, and Trump would be ready to assume the podium for his gold.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 14:49
Not good guys... not good. We had two years to do it, with the House lost, the wall will never happen.
Trump isn't blameless, bit this whole BS that it didn't get passed in the past two years is right.
The real lesson learned is that the Dems will do any thing to stop Trump, including- or maybe especially- tanking the economy. You can't play chicken with someone that is willing to die.
What did you expect? All the starving government employees losing their houses because the President just has to have a wall. He cannot compete against that or the deep state and their open ended, never ending up investigation. Good news is you can find 5.56 at $.24/round with rebates.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 14:56
If people don't know, the economy is about to hit a rough patch. This was a drag on the economy. The tax cuts were able to offset the drag of the Chinese trade war, but Trump needs to wrap that up if he doesn't want to face re-election with the taste of recession still in people's mouths.
How much influence do you think Trump can have when he has to battle the opposition party and the dems ;) and the FBI- not to mention the MSM.
This ain't loaves and fishes.
Doc Safari
01-25-19, 15:35
If people don't know, the economy is about to hit a rough patch. This was a drag on the economy. The tax cuts were able to offset the drag of the Chinese trade war, but Trump needs to wrap that up if he doesn't want to face re-election with the taste of recession still in people's mouths.
How much influence do you think Trump can have when he has to battle the opposition party and the dems ;) and the FBI- not to mention the MSM.
This ain't loaves and fishes.
Unfortunately, Trump may preside over an economic meltdown so severe that even Herbert Hoover will roll over in his grave:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-25/jim-kunstler-sometimes-nations-just-lose-their-shit
(T)he complex collapse of American life proceeds as the public and its leaders fail to comprehend the forces in play. What the Federal Reserve actually accomplished with its ten years of extend-and-pretend policy was not an economic “recovery,” but a degenerative disease of the social contract. If you look more closely, you can sense what will be unleashed when the ground thaws.
There will be a reckoning in the financial markets. Something ominous is rumbling over in bonds. No more high-yield for you! Among the victims of a credit freeze in “junk” (high-risk) lending: the shale oil industry. Watch it start to roll over this spring as money becomes unavailable for the exorbitant operations that comprise fracking. The swift collapse of the shale oil industry will shock the country, but it is really just the downside of its improbably rapid and acrobatic rise since 2005 on the false premise that profits don’t matter in a business venture. Only the fall will be even sharper than the rise: a few measly years. And, of course, the bond market represents the supreme untruth of the age: that debts can be racked up forever and never paid back.
Mr. Trump will be left holding a bag so large that observers may mistake him for a Bizarro Santa Claus. But the baggage within will not consist of sugarplums. It is actually stuffed with bankruptcy filings and pink slips. A year from now, there may be no such thing as a hedge fund left on the planet Earth. Or a job opening, unless you’re really good at weeding or picking fruit. Mr. Trump will attempt a rescue, but so did Herbert Hoover, who had a good three years to try this-and-that while the Depression stole over the land like a deadly fungus. The difference, of course, is that Mr. Hoover was acknowledged as a most brilliant mind of his era, and yet Reality had her wicked way with him, anyway.
My take: Within five years we may witness such a bad economy that the Dems may finally be able to usher in their so-called Socialist Utopia and the American people will be eagerly clamoring for it. BUY YOUR STUFF NOW.
My take: Within five years we may witness such a bad economy that the Dems may finally be able to usher in their so-called Socialist Utopia and the American people will be eagerly clamoring for it. BUY YOUR STUFF NOW.
Which would quickly be followed by a Venezuela type meltdown. That $.24/round 5.56 is looking better every day. :(
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-19, 16:48
The debt has been going to cause a meltdown in 18 months for the past decade, and for 30 years before that. Not saying that I don't believe it, just it never comes.
Trump was always dealt a bad hand on timing. We should have tipped over in 2016-17, but didn't. With rates higher, something has to give eventually.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-25-19, 17:47
What a loser
titsonritz
01-25-19, 17:50
May as well vote D next time. :jester:
Rush Limbaugh thinks there's some fundamental flaw in the emergency declaration or he would have done it already.
The only alternative I can think of is that he wants to appear to be the "good cop" to the Congress's "bad cop" so that when he lowers the boom he can say, "I'm so sorry they drove me to this. I have no choice now."
Haven't hear Limbaugh but the rest of that is my take.
He held out for teh longest shutdown. Schumer said over and over open the .gov and we will negotiate which we all know is a lie. So now Feb. 15th Trump can say the Dems lied. Can he bypass them and get away with it, I don't know. But let's say he tries. Next day Schulosi will have stop order in a court somewhere.
Trump can then say... you see, they lied and here is proof they never want a secure border unless they build it so they can get credit for it.
Trump needs to have a State of the Union now with multi-media presentations. Start the the delivery with thank you, now put the children to bed, we are going to show you reality. Then show the mukle trains, show the trash, show the bowling ball heads laying in the dust. Show the weapons. Just show everything. When it's over say Schulosi own that and want it to continue.
This temp shutdown would afford him that ability.
I can't see the 'dirt on him' angle. If they have dirt on him they will absolutely never let him bargain his way out. Never.
longest shut down in history and he fails in some folks eyes rather then he held out longer then anyone in history ?
he did not shut it down ! the dems did anyone with a rational mind goes OK time to move on tackle again sometimes you need to come back around to a situation etc..
he is just the president he can not do anything and everything he wants
I think to many think he would be like some dictator the left says he is !
May as well vote D next time.
If you had voted D last time you would be making plans to hide your guns right now. You probably would not even feel safe to be on a gun forum discussing anything.
We will never get 100%
Talk of quitting is for people like Harry "this war is lost" Reid.
Unfortunately, Trump may preside over an economic meltdown so severe that even Herbert Hoover will roll over in his grave:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-25/jim-kunstler-sometimes-nations-just-lose-their-shit
My take: Within five years we may witness such a bad economy that the Dems may finally be able to usher in their so-called Socialist Utopia and the American people will be eagerly clamoring for it. BUY YOUR STUFF NOW.
like a fire though most countries that have gone through this come out better on the end but low countries end up worse !
I do not want it to happen but I remember being a kid and waiting in gas lines with dad ! my dad had stories of great depression that he could remember and coming out of it what it was like
he is a great human and maybe sadly to say our current generation needs such a radical collapse to realize there are more things to worry about then calling someone the wrong freak name they demand !!!!
yeah it would be horrible but I guarantee the left is going to end up worse then the right if we have a radical collapse
yeah it would be horrible but I guarantee the left is going to end up worse then the right if we have a radical collapse
Yeah, i agree....
Seems the Dems have three weeks to come up with a reasonable counter offer to his compromise. They said end the shutdown and we will negotiate, if they don't negotiate now their position is weak.
I'm not waving a white flag yet. And anyway the wall is a skirmish far from the main battle. It's worth fighting and winning, but E-verify, Visa tracking, something like E-verify for money transfers going out are what really need to get done.
titsonritz
01-25-19, 18:55
If you had voted D last time you would be making plans to hide your guns right now. You probably would not even feel safe to be on a gun forum discussing anything.
We will never get 100%
Talk of quitting is for people like Harry "this war is lost" Reid.
Sorry, better?
May as well vote D next time. :jester:
Dr. Bullseye
01-25-19, 18:57
Trump better make this right.
Sorry, better?
Si Senor mucho mejor!
Rush Limbaugh thinks there's some fundamental flaw in the emergency declaration or he would have done it already.
The 9th Circuit put an injunction on it before he is finished signing it.
The problem is the “shut down” hurts many common folk but NOT the House of Reps. They are on freaking vacations in the tropics!! Trump needs to find a way to put the pain of stonewalling into the Dems in the House.
Business_Casual
01-25-19, 20:29
Stop and think about what the trading banks could do to the stock market if they wanted to start a rout. Couple that with a major air traffic disaster and think who would get the blame? Pelosi and Schumer? Nope.
While I understand the sentiment, this is the reason we have separation of powers. Think if Obama tried to wield imperialistic power over Ryan... ok, well he did try.
Stop and think about what the trading banks could do to the stock market if they wanted to start a rout. Couple that with a major air traffic disaster and think who would get the blame? Pelosi and Schumer? Nope.
Effin A
We elected an NYC liberal who is just moderate enough to win on a Republican ticket. Not sure why anyone would be surprised.
Guy has been building million dollar urban properties for 40 years. Loose borders = cheap labor for his company.
Based on his residenc(y)(ies) he's probably never personally owned a gun. Junior is a shooter but it seems that was a tertiary hobby until papa got elected.
He had congress for two years. What pro-gun legislation did he bother to pursue?
The 9th Circuit put an injunction on it before he is finished signing it.
At which point he needs to tell the 9th Circuit to EABOD and carry the eff on.
The problem is the “shut down” hurts many common folk but NOT the House of Reps. They are on freaking vacations in the tropics!! Trump needs to find a way to put the pain of stonewalling into the Dems in the House.
Right after telling the 9th to EABOD, he needs to have DHS unload busses full of criminal illegal aliens in front of Nancy & Chuck’s homes. No warning, just drop them and then say he fulfilled the wishes of their sanctuary cities.
Diamondback
01-25-19, 23:10
Also, don't discount the duplicitous f*ckery of the Kentucky Snapping Turtle and his pals in the Senate, who happily wallow in the swamp and resent anything that puts even the slightest damper on their Chamber of Cronyism gravytrain.
thopkins22
01-25-19, 23:32
I mean, the number of illegal Hispanic immigrants is lower than it has been in a decade. It’s hard to really pretend that it’s this big imminent threat that will end the country.
Where was this much distress in 2005? Back then we were righteously upset about bailouts to American companies and wanted bankruptcy court to do its thing so that free market capitalism could work.
Now, we’re wailing that a lower number of illegal immigrants is going to topple the nation, and that we need to inject huge amounts of our dollars into failed American industries so that we can be great again. But screw Maduro that commie right? Just hours ago someone here ranted that we should use the military to arrest all dissenters in politics and nationalize companies that have supported leftist ideology. ****ing shoot me.
The lack of ideological consistency and our desire to bite hook, line, and sinker into our leaders’ issue du jour is astounding.
The wall is never going to happen. Good. Trump has no shot of any lasting legacy of accomplishing anything...except perhaps pulling a Dick Nixon and hiding till he passes. I just hope that our bad behavior doesn’t backfire against us for the next forty years.
I mean, the number of illegal Hispanic immigrants is lower than it has been in a decade. It’s hard to really pretend that it’s this big imminent threat that will end the country.
Where was this much distress in 2005? Back then we were righteously upset about bailouts to American companies and wanted bankruptcy court to do its thing so that free market capitalism could work.
Now, we’re wailing that a lower number of illegal immigrants is going to topple the nation, and that we need to inject huge amounts of our dollars into failed American industries so that we can be great again. But screw Maduro that commie right? Just hours ago someone here ranted that we should use the military to arrest all dissenters in politics and nationalize companies that have supported leftist ideology. ****ing shoot me.
The lack of ideological consistency and our desire to bite hook, line, and sinker into our leaders’ issue du jour is astounding.
The wall is never going to happen. Good. Trump has no shot of any lasting legacy of accomplishing anything...except perhaps pulling a Dick Nixon and hiding till he passes. I just hope that our bad behavior doesn’t backfire against us for the next forty years.
Illegal immigration is a political crisis. It’s been used as a bone to gnaw on for both left and right for over three decades now. Yet of all our political crisies, this one is at once the most manufactured and the most easily fixed. I mean you don’t think we can correct a 22 TRILLION dollar debt as easily do you? Or perhaps you think we can ensure truly affordable health care for every citizen? How about peace in the Middle East? Or global anthropomorphic climate change? How about a really easy one like racism then?
Is illegal immigration a crisis on the level of 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina? No. But it’s eminently fixable and would remove one very contentious weapon the entrenched sides use against each other. Regardless of the catalyst, fixing that one thing would prove that we don’t have to resign ourselves to decades in the trenches hurling insults at each other. With one less thing to hate each other over, we could go tackle the next issue with a little less pessimism. God knows we could use a win for everyone right about now. :(
I don’t get the hubbub over $5.7 billion. That is chump change in the national “budget” (if you can call freewheeling spending a budget). Cancel govt construction projects given to MR. Pelosi and you probably have your wall funding. Cancel just one boondoggle DoD project (uh like find a new pistol, cartridge, a ship no one wants or doesn’t work, etc.). Or sell off all govt M14s!! There must be a hundred ways to scrape together $6 billion or more from existing expenditures that the Executive branch has control over.
Why do we even have a budget? We overspend by $500 billion - $1.5 trillion EVERY YEAR since 2008. Why be pikers? If you can spend $1.5 trillion you don’t have, why not $3 trillion. It is laughable how far over the precipice we have gone and everyone is still counting the loose change like it matters. No politician has even uttered the words balanced budget in over 20 years so why argue over $6B? Cancel Capital grounds landscape services and there you have it. Or just add 1/2% to the deficit. Or use the Corps of Engineers to build a huge freaking dike wall along the Rio Grande.
just a scout
01-26-19, 03:35
I don’t get the hubbub over $5.7 billion. That is chump change in the national “budget” (if you can call freewheeling spending a budget). Cancel govt construction projects given to MR. Pelosi and you probably have your wall funding. Cancel just one boondoggle DoD project (uh like find a new pistol, cartridge, a ship no one wants or doesn’t work, etc.). Or sell off all govt M14s!! There must be a hundred ways to scrape together $6 billion or more from existing expenditures that the Executive branch has control over.
Why do we even have a budget? We overspend by $500 billion - $1.5 trillion EVERY YEAR since 2008. Why be pikers? If you can spend $1.5 trillion you don’t have, why not $3 trillion. It is laughable how far over the precipice we have gone and everyone is still counting the loose change like it matters. No politician has even uttered the words balanced budget in over 20 years so why argue over $6B? Cancel Capital grounds landscape services and there you have it. Or just add 1/2% to the deficit. Or use the Corps of Engineers to build a huge freaking dike wall along the Rio Grande.
It’s not the money, it’s the cost of a political victory for Trump. That simple.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Based on his residenc(y)(ies) he's probably never personally owned a gun. Junior is a shooter but it seems that was a tertiary hobby until papa got elected.
Nope.
Though I doubt he is an avid shooter, Trump has had a NYC Carry permit for decades. Here is a link to a newspaper article from 2010 which lists both him and Donald Jr. as having NYC concealed carry permits:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/lifestyles-rich-packin-high-profile-celebrities-seeking-gun-permits-rise-article-1.441377
In a 2012 interview with the Washington Times, he said that he owned a .45 caliber Heckler & Koch and a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/nov/14/miller-donald-trumps-guns/
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-19, 03:57
longest shut down in history and he fails in some folks eyes rather then he held out longer then anyone in history ?
he did not shut it down ! the dems did anyone with a rational mind goes OK time to move on tackle again sometimes you need to come back around to a situation etc..
he is just the president he can not do anything and everything he wants
I think to many think he would be like some dictator the left says he is !
This. QFT.
yeah it would be horrible but I guarantee the left is going to end up worse then the right if we have a radical collapse
Let's not forget the moderates/centrists/apoliticals, who's puppet strings will be manipulated by the left and their propaganda juggernaut.
Part of me thinks he ended the shutdown so he can have the State of the Union proceed. Maybe it's because he wants to use it to hammer the Dems about border security, maybe because he likes seeing himself perform. We shall see.
Either way, some are right. They said open the government and we'll negotiate. He put the ball in their court. In the meantime I just hope Civil War 2 happens quickly enough for us to have some fun before we get too old.
I wish people would get off the CW2 bit....
You really dont want me to the point of blacking my face out, wearing tiger stripes, and having an ear necklace.
I just wanted to watch reruns of Sabrina the Teensge Witch.....
Lolol that was hilarious.
Averageman
01-26-19, 08:44
I mean, the number of illegal Hispanic immigrants is lower than it has been in a decade. It’s hard to really pretend that it’s this big imminent threat that will end the country.
I don't know if it's lower or not, I think we're taking someone's word about that percentage and to be honest they may be feeding us those numbers for a reason. The Democrats want new voters and the Republicans want cheap labor, so who do you trust anymore when it comes to numbers like this, some political appointee? So the entire American voting block is supposed to say, "Oh well, it's getting better."?
Depending on where you go and what you do, you might be easily persuaded someones blowing smoke up your third point of contact.
I've had a couple of really weird experiences with illegals and my property. It's pretty frustrating when someone drives a pick-up across your front lawn to retrieve something out of a neighbors back yard, sprinkler system be damned. Then there was the time when four guys began unloading a bunch of trenching gear in my front yard, Homeowner be damned, the only English they seemed to know was "Right of Way."
They've no respect for property and the people that hire them don't care if anyone in the crew speaks English.
Being illegal is still against the law, thus the term illegal alien or wet back is more applicable than undocumented immigrant.
The problem is the “shut down” hurts many common folk but NOT the House of Reps. They are on freaking vacations in the tropics!! Trump needs to find a way to put the pain of stonewalling into the Dems in the House.
I call bullshit on this one. Those "common folk" have cushy, well paying jobs with full pensions and vote 90+% Democrat to continue their gravy train. I fired a worthless POS who now works in OMB, the .GOV employees, largely, not completely, are the people who can't make it in the private sector.
I'm not talking about the service members........although some of this applies there too.
It’s not the money, it’s the cost of a political victory for Trump.
Nobody seriously opposes the wall on cost. It's as unserious as claiming illegals don't vote.
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-texas-secretary-states-office-discovers-nearly-95000-people-identified-dps-non-us-citizens
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-26-19, 10:10
With the native birth rate where it is, and the stagnation and rigidity in the US economy, you have to keep the boat moving forward with immigration. If we reduced the barriers to running small, innovative companies in the US, you could have an economy that is driven by innovation and value-added. Think Switzerland. THey are smart, they take in some people, but they definitely will take your money.
Trump wasn't going to fix that with a govt shutdown. Congress is the one that screwed this up, and has for the past 30 years. Blaming Trump for not solving the problem is really short sighted. Of course, the conservative way is to wish for a huge win that totally takes care of an issue and if that doesn't work- just give up. The left takes what they can get, calls defeats actually to be victories, and then comes back and hits the issue again.
Keep hitting the issue and save the circular firing squad for later.
I think our birthrate is stagnating because of immigration. Most people who want kids won’t get them until they are in their 30s because they have to work and don’t get help because they “don’t qualify”
This whole outsource culture is stupid.
There was a time when you could start a good job after high school be married by age 20 with a house, have a stay home mother, retire, and when kids were older she could take whatever job for play money or a new car.
Now.....UGH.
I feel like in a way a whole generation is cheated because a buncha crackers and private contractors get off on paying Julios under the table to cheat taxes and cut costs because of our socialist minimum wage laws
We have oodles of young people who can do some work. Pull up your pants, turn off the Cardi B, and do some damn work.
Nobody seriously opposes the wall on cost. It's as unserious as claiming illegals don't vote.
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-texas-secretary-states-office-discovers-nearly-95000-people-identified-dps-non-us-citizens
I know the Dems are all about anti Trump and not the cost. My perplexity is why Trump can’t find $6 B in whatever budget he gets and just repurpose that amount. Call it construction job training, levee building, immigration research, new Army obstacle course, whatever. Why is Trump letting the Dems hang him out over a relative pittance?
I think our birthrate is stagnating because of immigration. Most people who want kids won’t get them until they are in their 30s because they have to work and don’t get help because they “don’t qualify”
This whole outsource culture is stupid.
There was a time when you could start a good job after high school be married by age 20 with a house, have a stay home mother, retire, and when kids were older she could take whatever job for play money or a new car.
Now.....UGH.
I feel like in a way a whole generation is cheated because a buncha crackers and private contractors get off on paying Julios under the table to cheat taxes and cut costs because of our socialist minimum wage laws
We have oodles of young people who can do some work. Pull up your pants, turn off the Cardi B, and do some damn work.
You left out the fact that our government pays people, and pays them well, to stay home and do nothing.
I think our birthrate is stagnating because of immigration. Most people who want kids won’t get them until they are in their 30s because they have to work and don’t get help because they “don’t qualify”
I do not think that is the cause. I think it is simply a case of wanting good things now, and putting off family rearing till they are more established. College debt may also play a role.
Additionally, there has been a marked decrease in the number of married couples which make up households from 78% in 1950 to 48% in 2010. I'm pretty sure the numbers are not rising.
There was a time when you could start a good job after high school be married by age 20 with a house, have a stay home mother, retire, and when kids were older she could take whatever job for play money or a new car.
By age 20? When was that? I got married at 19, bought my first house at 23 (we had two kids). Only then because I got a VA loan with a low down payment.
Not bashing on you, just a different perspective.
Well you are older than me. Plus maybe personal experience has colored my perspective.
Part of me simply thinks Americans don’t know how to American anymore.
It just seems there is a different curve at play.
I dunno. Nothing I can do but cover my 45 degree lane of fire as they say.
I think we can both agree we over rely on China though.
You know I value your input
Well you are older than me. Plus maybe personal experience has colored my perspective.
Part of me simply thinks Americans don’t know how to American anymore.
It just seems there is a different curve at play.
I dunno. Nothing I can do but cover my 45 degree lane of fire as they say.
I think we can both agree we over rely on China though.
You know I value your input
I just realized that my wife also worked.
I do agree there is a different curve at play - I was relatively sure my kids would do better than me in terms of standard of living, etc. I'm not so sure now.
I believe one of the reasons that we over rely on China is that when the Chinese market opened up to us, and we opened up to them, manufacturers were quick to jump on cheap components and labor. To my simple mind, the profit surge from that could have been used to recapitalize American Industry and strengthen the work force by floating wages up. Instead those profits went right to the shareholders. Kind of been that way ever since. In that respect we have slowly strangled ourselves.
JMO
I think our birthrate is stagnating because of immigration. Most people who want kids won’t get them until they are in their 30s because they have to work and don’t get help because they “don’t qualify”
This whole outsource culture is stupid.
There was a time when you could start a good job after high school be married by age 20 with a house, have a stay home mother, retire, and when kids were older she could take whatever job for play money or a new car.
Now.....UGH.
I feel like in a way a whole generation is cheated because a buncha crackers and private contractors get off on paying Julios under the table to cheat taxes and cut costs because of our socialist minimum wage laws
We have oodles of young people who can do some work. Pull up your pants, turn off the Cardi B, and do some damn work.
I agree with this, completely ^
I am an oldster here but re: children, my wife and I would have loved to have had them.
Unfortunately, we both view the future of the U.S. as being very bleak (politely speaking). And, with taxes so high, money printing debasing the currency so badly, open borders, a broken court system, violent crime in every city increasing, et cetera ... we just didn’t want to bring any innocent little ones into such a place or situation. Our ability to properly care for them and protect them is rapidly going away ...
... sad times.
I just realized that my wife also worked.
I do agree there is a different curve at play - I was relatively sure my kids would do better than me in terms of standard of living, etc. I'm not so sure now.
I believe one of the reasons that we over rely on China is that when the Chinese market opened up to us, and we opened up to them, manufacturers were quick to jump on cheap components and labor. To my simple mind, the profit surge from that could have been used to recapitalize American Industry and strengthen the work force by floating wages up. Instead those profits went right to the shareholders. Kind of been that way ever since. In that respect we have slowly strangled ourselves.
JMO
They most likely won't unless they get into something that pays better than you. I don't feel like I made a mistake buying the family business 18 years ago, but the returns for my wife and I are far lower than what my parents got out of the business. Luckily I love what I do, because I'm not retiring early like they did.
I've made this point in another thread long ago. My son worked a high paying job for a 16 y.o. for a local aviation company in 2011. He was making $13 an hour. In 1987 I worked a very high paying job as a 17 y.o. making $13 an hour training as a land surveyor. My kid's car insurance was $50 a month for liability and gas cost him $3 a gallon, his 22 yr old Toyota pickup cost $2000. My car insurance was $10 a month on my 1978 Ford I gave $2000 for (but was only 9 years old), gas for me was less than a $1. My son worked four summers full time and barely covered a full year of college. I worked two summers, bought a dirt bike and snowmobile, and still have money left over after paying for a year of college. Wages have not kept up for the middle class. That is a fact.
We need to end any and all welfare type benefits to any and all immigrants legal or illegal,We do not need to import any more parasite class people we have enough of our own native born.
thopkins22
01-27-19, 22:15
violent crime in every city increasing....
I will only point out that at no point in your life has violent crime been lower than in the last decade.
Violent crime peaked in the eighties and has dropped precipitously ever since. There has never been a better time to be a human anywhere on the planet for that matter, never mind an American.
Moose-Knuckle
01-29-19, 05:25
I will only point out that at no point in your life has violent crime been lower than in the last decade.
Violent crime peaked in the eighties and has dropped precipitously ever since. There has never been a better time to be a human anywhere on the planet for that matter, never mind an American.
You do realize big cities manipulate how they classify and report particular crimes so they look better than they are. No body wants to be in the top ten and they all manipulate data to get their names a little further down the list.
Chicago violent crime is ignored by the mainstream media all together as it does not fit the agenda.
More people alive = more crime than previous times.
More people alive = more crime than previous times.
Stop, you are using logic and math. Two things no longer taught in the public schools.
thopkins22
01-29-19, 08:50
You do realize big cities manipulate how they classify and report particular crimes so they look better than they are. No body wants to be in the top ten and they all manipulate data to get their names a little further down the list.
Chicago violent crime is ignored by the mainstream media all together as it does not fit the agenda.
More people alive = more crime than previous times.
I’m using the FBI’s uniform crime report to make that statement, which uses the crime rate.
There are also peer reviewed studies demonstrating this globally.
By the sheer number of crimes? I don’t know, maybe though it can depend on the city. One murder per year in a city of one hundred thousand is not better than two murders per four hundred thousand. Technically that is 100% more murder, but any given citizen is 50% less likely to be the victim.
The FBI classifies the raw data on their own, and does not just compile and do a meta analysis.
Stop, you are using logic and math. Two things no longer taught in the public schools.
Here is how you use logic and math.
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr
I’m using the FBI’s uniform crime report to make that statement, which uses the crime rate.
There are also peer reviewed studies demonstrating this globally.
By the sheer number of crimes? I don’t know, maybe though it can depend on the city. One murder per year in a city of one hundred thousand is not better than two murders per four hundred thousand. Technically that is 100% more murder, but any given citizen is 50% less likely to be the victim.
The FBI classifies the raw data on their own, and does not just compile and do a meta analysis.
Here is how you use logic and math.
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr
What he's saying is "garbage in, garbage out". The FBI doesn't take the reports, local LE does. They can and do manipulate both the classification and the severity of the reports unless the reporting party knows the law and does a "will file", which is exceedingly rare. Officers on the street can literally talk RP's out of filing reports at all. If the PD is overwhelmed, they can specify that certain crimes require the RP to come to the station to file a report during business hours, which can itself take hours and further discourages reporting crimes.
The FBI's UCR system is voluntary, not mandatory. The local agency is solely responsible for submitting the data. You know, like they submit data to NICS on disqualifying crimes. So your idea of "logic and math" are really just voluntarily submitted statistics. It doesn't even take a skeptic to see the potential for errors, omissions and abuse in this system. :(
I’ll give you a good example of crime reporting and how it is easily manipulated. The PD I worked at had a large university within it’s jurisdiction. That university had it’s own police department with armed, certified police officers. If there was a crime that was anything more serious than a loud party they would call us. So we handled all the assaults, rapes, robberies, etc... So one day I asked an officer in their command staff why they call us and I was told that it kept the crime statistics for the university very low, i.e. it was reported as occurring in the city and not the actual campus.
Moose-Knuckle
01-29-19, 14:34
What he's saying is "garbage in, garbage out". The FBI doesn't take the reports, local LE does. They can and do manipulate both the classification and the severity of the reports unless the reporting party knows the law and does a "will file", which is exceedingly rare. Officers on the street can literally talk RP's out of filing reports at all. If the PD is overwhelmed, they can specify that certain crimes require the RP to come to the station to file a report during business hours, which can itself take hours and further discourages reporting crimes.
The FBI's UCR system is voluntary, not mandatory. The local agency is solely responsible for submitting the data. You know, like they submit data to NICS on disqualifying crimes. So your idea of "logic and math" are really just voluntarily submitted statistics. It doesn't even take a skeptic to see the potential for errors, omissions and abuse in this system. :(
Bingo.
thopkins22
01-29-19, 14:49
I’ll give you a good example of crime reporting and how it is easily manipulated. The PD I worked at had a large university within it’s jurisdiction. That university had it’s own police department with armed, certified police officers. If there was a crime that was anything more serious than a loud party they would call us. So we handled all the assaults, rapes, robberies, etc... So one day I asked an officer in their command staff why they call us and I was told that it kept the crime statistics for the university very low, i.e. it was reported as occurring in the city and not the actual campus.
That university is violating US law. The penalty is $55,000 per violation and a ban on receiving federal funds. The Clery Act requires every university that receives any federal assistance to disclose any crime on or near campus reported to them, or of which they are made aware.
Perhaps they misunderstood the law, but the law includes every single crime regardless of wrote the ticket or made the arrest.
thopkins22
01-29-19, 15:07
What he's saying is "garbage in, garbage out". The FBI doesn't take the reports, local LE does. They can and do manipulate both the classification and the severity of the reports unless the reporting party knows the law and does a "will file", which is exceedingly rare. Officers on the street can literally talk RP's out of filing reports at all. If the PD is overwhelmed, they can specify that certain crimes require the RP to come to the station to file a report during business hours, which can itself take hours and further discourages reporting crimes.
The FBI's UCR system is voluntary, not mandatory. The local agency is solely responsible for submitting the data. You know, like they submit data to NICS on disqualifying crimes. So your idea of "logic and math" are really just voluntarily submitted statistics. It doesn't even take a skeptic to see the potential for errors, omissions and abuse in this system. :(
So what data pool are we applying mathematics and logic to? I’m certainly aware of the ability to manipulate numbers. But the one metric we have to use which goes back nearly a century can’t just be discounted, especially since the overwhelming majority of departments do report their data and the categories are very broad. It’s not like lowering the number of victims to increase the number of mass shootings type criteria.
The NCJRS has maintained that the data are accurate to within 3-10% of actual crime, though recently released a paper that indicated the criminal homicides may be over reported by as much as 50%, since it includes all investigated criminal homicides, and not those that were found to be justified or were unable to attain a conviction.
These are data that help gun owners btw. Crime started dropping at the same time that gun laws were being liberalized across the nation. Perhaps the guns weren’t responsible, but they didn’t cause the Wild West either. Of course it also jives with about fifteen years after Roe v Wade too...and I do think that fewer impoverished and fatherless teenagers helped a bit. And I definitely know that there are manipulations all around, but what else can we judge by that is objective?
That university is violating US law. The penalty is $55,000 per violation and a ban on receiving federal funds. The Clery Act requires every university that receives any federal assistance to disclose any crime on or near campus reported to them, or of which they are made aware.
Perhaps they misunderstood the law, but the law includes every single crime regardless of wrote the ticket or made the arrest.
Be sure and let us know when that law is actually enforced and a university actually pays the penalty.
thopkins22
01-29-19, 15:15
Be sure and let us know when that law is actually enforced and a university actually pays the penalty.
Fair point.
So what data pool are we applying mathematics and logic to? I’m certainly aware of the ability to manipulate numbers. But the one metric we have to use which goes back nearly a century can’t just be discounted, especially since the overwhelming majority of departments do report their data and the categories are very broad. It’s not like lowering the number of victims to increase the number of mass shootings type criteria.
The NCJRS has maintained that the data are accurate to within 3-10% of actual crime, though recently released a paper that indicated the criminal homicides may be over reported by as much as 50%, since it includes all investigated criminal homicides, and not those that were found to be justified or were unable to attain a conviction.
These are data that help gun owners btw. Crime started dropping at the same time that gun laws were being liberalized across the nation. Perhaps the guns weren’t responsible, but they didn’t cause the Wild West either. Of course it also jives with about fifteen years after Roe v Wade too...and I do think that fewer impoverished and fatherless teenagers helped a bit. And I definitely know that there are manipulations all around, but what else can we judge by that is objective?
I didn't say the data was completely useless, just that we have to take it with a grain of salt. Whenever you have an institutionalized system that's been in use for nearly a century, you're going to have people and places that figure out how to game the system. That 3-10% may be entirely accurate for one jurisdiction and wildly inaccurate for another, all based on how they approach policing policy and how desperate they are to improve their "liveability" stats. For instance, you're not going to find a single jusisdiction that pads their crime stats to make them appear worse than they are. There's no upside. They might inadvertently categorize some incorrectly that negatively impact their stats, but they'll find that and correct it. They're not going to correct wrongly improved stats unless forced to.
The more violent and crime ridden a jurisdiction is, the more likely they are to fudge their numbers. It's not exactly rocket surgery.
That university is violating US law. The penalty is $55,000 per violation and a ban on receiving federal funds. The Clery Act requires every university that receives any federal assistance to disclose any crime on or near campus reported to them, or of which they are made aware.
Perhaps they misunderstood the law, but the law includes every single crime regardless of wrote the ticket or made the arrest.
You are wasting bandwidth, they obviously know more about than you.
The widely reported myth that violent crime dropped 49% and property crime dropped nearly the same amount between 1993 and 2017 is just that, a myth, based on the collusion of the entire population of law enforcement agencies throughout the nation. To say any different is crazy talk, crazy talk.
Seriously, though, the general public perception is that crime across the nation is much worse than it is in actuality.
Misconceptions abound. Chicago's 2017 murder rate of 24 per 100,000 is less than 1/2 that of St Louis and Baltimore. Yet which gets the internet and media attention?
Averageman
01-29-19, 15:21
I would guess the shooting of five Cops in Houston yesterday might have sealed the deal as it is reportedly Cartel related.
Yeah, a Presidential Order isn't my favorite way to deal with this stuff, but it is an emergency.
You are wasting bandwidth, they obviously know more about than you.
The widely reported myth that violent crime dropped 49% and property crime dropped nearly the same amount between 1993 and 2017 is just that, a myth, based on the collusion of the entire population of law enforcement agencies throughout the nation. To say any different is crazy talk, crazy talk.
Seriously, though, the general public perception is that crime across the nation is much worse than it is in actuality.
Misconceptions abound. Chicago's 2017 murder rate of 24 per 100,000 is less than 1/2 that of St Louis and Baltimore. Yet which gets the internet and media attention?
And you obviously didn't read the actual gist of the comments. Some jurisdictions are statistically much safer than others. Some jurisdictions report accurately and others don't. Some places (NYC for example) are more safe now than they were then, while others are more dangerous now (St. Louis for example) than they were in the 80's, 90's or early 2000's.
Sure overall crime nationwide might be "down", but that doesn't necessarily reflect what's happening at the local level. Even Chicago's murder rate is a statistical anomaly, because Chicago is literally on the bleeding edge of emergency room lifesaving. If their ER's were directly comparable to most other urban areas, their murder rate would be much higher.
If you don't understand this, then your view is exceedingly myopic. :(
And then on the other hand;https://theweek.com/articles/819128/why-trumps-immigration-compromise-shrewd-move?
Moose-Knuckle
01-30-19, 15:21
Repeat after me says the TV . . . . GUN CONTROL works! Just ask Chicago or moderate gun forum members . . .
Chicago vs. Iraq & Afghanistan
Total homicides in Chicago since 2001, when the U.S. first went to war in Afghanistan (and then later Iraq in 2003) total 8,384.
U.S. deaths in Chicago = 8,384 vs. the war-zones of Afghanistan & Iraq = 6,778
8,384 vs. 6778
https://apholt.com/2017/01/03/chicago-vs-iraq-afghanistan/
Homicides In Chicago Eclipse U.S. Death Toll In Afghanistan And Iraq
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/09/08/homicides-in-chicago-eclipse-u-s-death-toll-in-afghanistan-and-iraq-infographic/#3d5cab027d75
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.