View Full Version : Shot Show 2019 General Thoughts
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-26-19, 14:26
I haven't seen many threads about the Shot Show? I'm not seeing very much this year? There is always the stuff that won't be available till late this year at best, but what are you guys seeing that would actually be available for this summer shooting?
Glock 43X
Glock 48
Taurus TX22
Colt 1911 Classic, CCO, King Cobra
Les Baer Gunsite pistol
Springfield Pro 9mm
Just to name a few.
Go here and watch all the videos, I guarantee you won't be able to keep up with the new stuff:
https://shotshow.org/
It’s a good time for 80s kids to collect the guns of our fathers.
CAR15s, retro optics, futurized AR-180s, and Bren 2s that let you live out your Strike Back fantasy without debasing yourself by owning an AK.
Once they de-pimp the 48, you will have a Glock Model 439.
Plus the Aimpoint ACRO
titsonritz
01-26-19, 21:26
Plus the Aimpoint ACRO
This is what I'm most excited about, but then there is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFHT4svtQI
This is what I'm most excited about, but then there is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFHT4svtQI
Does everyone that goes to SHOT dress up like a tactical douchebag? Folks can’t wear normal clothes?
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Does everyone that goes to SHOT dress up like a tactical douchebag? Folks can’t wear normal clothes?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not sure I'd call what he was wearing "tactical", more like retro reenactor with hippie beads.
Glock 43X
Glock 48
Taurus TX22
Colt 1911 Classic, CCO, King Cobra
Les Baer Gunsite pistol
Springfield Pro 9mm
Just to name a few.
Go here and watch all the videos, I guarantee you won't be able to keep up with the new stuff:
https://shotshow.org/
I don't get the SA 9mm Pro, hasn't that been out for at least a year?
Does everyone that goes to SHOT dress up like a tactical douchebag? Folks can’t wear normal clothes?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, not even close. There might have been 10% that wore "tactical" clothing. Most of us wore regular clothing.
I don't get the SA 9mm Pro, hasn't that been out for at least a year?
I knew about the 9mm Pro, but have never seen one locally or actually know a real person with one.
Does everyone that goes to SHOT dress up like a tactical douchebag? Folks can’t wear normal clothes?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gun Jesus and his business partner have a pretty well established branding which includes older style clothing. It is hardly Tactical. It does help differentiate them however.
The best part are the Japanese airsoft girls who bring just a smidge of Hello Kitty. Lots of pictures and video if you know where to look.
https://www.instagram.com/misamisaupiupi/
They are coming out with new old school Galils.......
They are heavy, pointless, moderately homosexual, overhyped, and the weapon of choice for a lot of despotic nations mostly Latin American
however as an 80s kid.....
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/574/takemymoney.jpg
They are coming out with new old school Galils...
Yes. Yes, they are!
The Galil is my favorite AK.
They are coming out with new old school Galils.......
They are heavy, pointless, moderately homosexual, overhyped, and the weapon of choice for a lot of despotic nations mostly Latin American
however as an 80s kid.....
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/574/takemymoney.jpg
Unfortunately NOT from IWI. They are parts kits built by ATI on a US receiver and barrel. I dig the retro wood but not going to drop that kind of coin on what might be another CAI Golani rifle.
Really, really wish IWI would wake up and import classic Uzi's and Galils. The retro market is strong. While we are on the subject looks like DSA is finally making Izzy rifles.
https://www.dsarms.com/p-17100-dsa-sa58-fal-21-israeli-light-barrel-rifle-officer-grade-hebrew-war-hammer.aspx
Kel-tec .22 pistol seems cool. Aimpoint ACRO. And the Brownells stuff is all I’ve seen that has interested me.
Maybe the DD bolt gun. If I decide to get into that stuff.
Oh did anyone see the bullpup Rem 700 chassis. That looks cool but is too expensive for me.
Unfortunately NOT from IWI. They are parts kits built by ATI on a US receiver and barrel. I dig the retro wood but not going to drop that kind of coin on what might be another CAI Golani rifle.
Really, really wish IWI would wake up and import classic Uzi's and Galils. The retro market is strong. While we are on the subject looks like DSA is finally making Izzy rifles.
https://www.dsarms.com/p-17100-dsa-sa58-fal-21-israeli-light-barrel-rifle-officer-grade-hebrew-war-hammer.aspx
In your opinion, is the quality/value of the Izzy FAL there? A FAL has been on my bucket list for a long time.
I would have loved to finally see an optics ready VP9, nope.
In your opinion, is the quality/value of the Izzy FAL there? A FAL has been on my bucket list for a long time.
Combination of original Izzy and DSA parts. I have a few DSAs and some original FN LARs and as much as I hate to admit it, I don't see a lot of difference in performance.
I would have loved to finally see an optics ready VP9, nope.
Damn near every major defensive handgun should have optics ready models by this point.
Doc Safari
01-28-19, 14:05
They are coming out with new old school Galils.......
They are heavy, pointless, moderately homosexual, overhyped, and the weapon of choice for a lot of despotic nations mostly Latin American
I don't get how Galils are homosexual. They are, however, AK's for people who refuse to shop at Wal-Mart.
I don't get how Galils are homosexual. They are, however, AK's for people who refuse to shop at Wal-Mart.
Simple...
Heavier than an AK
fires same round as M16 but again, heavier
lots of unnecessary crap(a bottle opener? really? REALLY?)
pointless bipod
magazine too long or too short. 12rds or 45rds
still shooting same M16 round just not as accurate
Awkward charging handle
Like all Israeli weapons it seems tactical practical and awesome then you realize how pointless a lot of the tactical practical truly is.
Its broad appeal is that to its credit it will fire corrosive, poorly primed, and improperly powdered rounds manufactured locally in The Banana Republic.
That said it looks evil and like something from an Able Team book cover.
Otherwise, yeah pretty gay gun. A Valmet cover that doesn't even do what a Valmet does.
I only want one because aesthetics but deep down it is the exact weapon I want my enemy to have, especially on long foot marches uphill.
Same with UZI...looks cool, fun toy...
but pointless (a grip safety....on an SMG? Really?)
I'm not saying guys at IMI arent on crack but I'm not saying they aren't either.
Still want one just because 80s kid.
Doc Safari
01-28-19, 15:01
Simple...
Heavier than an AK
fires same round as M16 but again, heavier
lots of unnecessary crap(a bottle opener? really? REALLY?)
pointless bipod
magazine too long or too short. 12rds or 45rds
still shooting same M16 round just not as accurate
Awkward charging handle
Like all Israeli weapons it seems tactical practical and awesome then you realize how pointless a lot of the tactical practical truly is.
Its broad appeal is that to its credit it will fire corrosive, poorly primed, and improperly powdered rounds manufactured locally in The Banana Republic.
That said it looks evil and like something from an Able Team book cover.
Otherwise, yeah pretty gay gun. A Valmet cover that doesn't even do what a Valmet does.
I only want one because aesthetics but deep down it is the exact weapon I want my enemy to have, especially on long foot marches uphill.
Same with UZI...looks cool, fun toy...
but pointless (a grip safety....on an SMG? Really?)
I'm not saying guys at IMI arent on crack but I'm not saying they aren't either.
Still want one just because 80s kid.
Agree with all your points, but I wouldn't call that "gay". Gay would be like....comes with a nail file instead of a bottle opener.
Damn near every major defensive handgun should have optics ready models by this point.
Agreed. The ACRO and related items are pretty much all that I cared about being released at Shot. The first ACRO that I get is going ATOM Gen3 Glock slide, so I need their Unity Tac’s ACRO Mount as well. If all is well, a VP9 will be next. I will have a slide milled if I have to, but I’d rather have one from the factory.
Also concerning the Galil, having fired a short barreled M16 and a selective fire Galil side by side, I can tell you the M16 was WAY more controllable. You could really feel that heavier BCG slamming around in the action throwing itself around in your hand...big difference.
I would have loved to finally see an optics ready VP9, nope.I'd be lying if I said I wasn't salty about HK not releasing an optics ready VP9/VP9T.
They even released a VP9L for competition use... and it's not optics ready either.
Talk about dropping the ball.
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I'm interested in:
The clear Glock Magazines (I don't really know why).
Galil
Aimpoint pistol sight.
G43x
Magpul 35 round EVO mags
MountainRaven
01-28-19, 23:25
They are coming out with new old school Galils.......
They are heavy, pointless, moderately homosexual, overhyped, and the weapon of choice for a lot of despotic nations mostly Latin American
however as an 80s kid.....
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/574/takemymoney.jpg
Link? So I can post:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/574/takemymoney.jpg
Simple...
Heavier than an AK
fires same round as M16 but again, heavier
lots of unnecessary crap(a bottle opener? really? REALLY?)
pointless bipod
magazine too long or too short. 12rds or 45rds
still shooting same M16 round just not as accurate
Awkward charging handle
The bottle opener added essentially no weight.
They made 30 round magazines.
The bipod is light and really doesn't add any meaningful weight and exists mostly as a handle for the wire cutter.
Charging handle is meant for "over the top" non firing hand IDF super hero operative method.
Intended as a replacement for the FAL, which didn't handle the blowing sand as well as they hoped and was largely a hijack of the Valmet design, which is one of the best executions of the AK concept ever offered, but what works great in the snow and ice doesn't really do the same thing in the blowing sand.
So instead of having the combined best features of the FAL and AK they ended up with a really heavy AK that wasn't particularly accurate. Had they gone with something closer to the Vz58 in 5.56 I think they'd have been better off. Of course copying the Czechs is usually a safe bet.
The important thing is, for all it's faults, the side folding Galil was still a huge step up from an underfolder AK or a 21" barrel FAL for the typical applications of the IDF especially in urban areas where they are in and out of vehicles, checking out suspect bus riders and things like that.
Israel and the Middle East can be a strange environment where things that work perfectly in Europe, and the Scandinavian countries simply come up short. But at the same time things like the Uzi are king of the jungle for much longer than you'd expect.
On paper the Galil probably looked like a "can't miss", but it's quirks and the fact that it was competing against FREE M16s meant it was doomed almost from the start. I still need a Valmet, that is the one I wish they were importing. A Gustav M45 / Swedish K would be nice too.
MountainRaven
01-29-19, 00:45
Also:
Galil magazines came in 12- (crimped blank only, for rifle grenades), 35-, 50-, and (according to wikipedia) 65-round capacity magazines (I've never seen a 65-round Galil magazine, nor heard of them anywhere but on wikipedia). No 30s and no 45s, not from IWI/IMI, anyway.
The 35-round Galil magazines are comparable in length to a 30-round AK/AKM magazine and still in use in South Africa.
Also:
Galil magazines came in 12- (crimped blank only, for rifle grenades), 35-, 50-, and (according to wikipedia) 65-round capacity magazines (I've never seen a 65-round Galil magazine, nor heard of them anywhere but on wikipedia). No 30s and no 45s, not from IWI/IMI, anyway.
The 35-round Galil magazines are comparable in length to a 30-round AK/AKM magazine and still in use in South Africa.
I bet mine are 35s, always thought they were 30s and loaded them accordingly. They never seemed longer than say a 30 round AK mag.
I always thought the "bottle opener" was actually the wire cutter that became more popular as a bottle opener
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't salty about HK not releasing an optics ready VP9/VP9T.
They even released a VP9L for competition use... and it's not optics ready either.
Talk about dropping the ball.
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Meanwhile, in Europe...
https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/pistols/sfp9-2/sfp9-or/product-overview.html
Is so dumb. Just sell the damn thing here. I bet they sell more VP9s in the US than SFP9s in Europe...
Simple...
but pointless (a grip safety....on an SMG? Really?)
Yeah, who would want a drop-safe open bolt SMG?
Meanwhile, in Europe...
https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/pistols/sfp9-2/sfp9-or/product-overview.html
Is so dumb. Just sell the damn thing here. I bet they sell more VP9s in the US than SFP9s in Europe...
HK's incompetence is non-denominational. Nobody has been able to buy a VP9OR even in Europe.
MountainRaven
01-30-19, 01:03
Yeah, who would want a drop-safe open bolt SMG?
I don't believe the grip safety functioned as a drop safe on the Uzi.
However, between the LAV and Gun Jesus, I recall hearing that some guys would tie down the grip safety (like guys have done since 1912 with the 1911), while others would rely primarily on the grip safety (leaving the gun in semi or auto, with the bolt down) due to the difficulty some folks had with operating the safety/selector.
I don't believe the grip safety functioned as a drop safe on the Uzi.
However, between the LAV and Gun Jesus, I recall hearing that some guys would tie down the grip safety (like guys have done since 1912 with the 1911), while others would rely primarily on the grip safety (leaving the gun in semi or auto, with the bolt down) due to the difficulty some folks had with operating the safety/selector.
I've seen pics of Uzi's with the grip safety taped down, but you can't run them "bolt closed" because the firing pin is milled into the bolt face. You could drop the bolt on an empty gun and then insert the magazine, but that would require cocking the bolt before you could use it.
And given the rachet safety feature it would be sorta easy to not cock the bolt all the way under stress and have a gun that is completely locked up. Seen a few people do this running factory Uzi's in subgun competitions. Uzi's that are semi conversions didn't have that feature so it's easy to short cock one and slam fire off a round.
Seems to usually also be related to the screw in the cocking knob having backed out a little bit in most cases. Either way, taping down the grip safety is generally not very smart as it takes almost no effort at all to engage it.
Trying to do rapid magazine changes I've probably short cocked an Uzi a handful of times and if not for the rachet catch in the top cover I would have slam fired a round in the process. It's always something of a wake up call to pull the trigger and get nothing and then you realize the bolt didn't go all the way back.
So while I think the Uzi is a brilliant design, even if it is basically WWII tech that was mostly stolen from the Czechs, it really makes me appreciate the MP5.
MountainRaven
01-30-19, 13:51
I've seen pics of Uzi's with the grip safety taped down, but you can't run them "bolt closed" because the firing pin is milled into the bolt face. You could drop the bolt on an empty gun and then insert the magazine, but that would require cocking the bolt before you could use it.
My understanding is that it was done with an empty chamber (cuz open bolt gun) and a loaded magazine and the bolt would be cocked before firing (which probably wasn't that unusual for open-bolt subguns in a time when there weren't very many options that offered dust covers to keep crud out of the open action - with it's bolt face, breach, and magazine exposed to the elements).
ETA: Pre-MP5 subguns make me appreciate the MP5. Post-MP5 subguns IMO aren't generally better enough to justify replacing an MP5 with one.
I like the UMP. Again, people think I am on acid but I liked the .45 one.
MP5s are nice but I always felt the colt SMG was comfier. If we was raiding Hanoi...I’m toting a MP5
That said it is [CURRENT YEAR] and would rather have a shorty carbine with 53gr soft points for all your dope den demolition needs
HK's incompetence is non-denominational. Nobody has been able to buy a VP9OR even in Europe.
O RLY? Vaporware?
Outlander Systems
01-30-19, 16:28
Haters can hate all they want. The UMP45 is a glorious gat, especially in that retro grey finish.
I like the UMP. Again, people think I am on acid but I liked the .45 one.
MP5s are nice but I always felt the colt SMG was comfier. If we was raiding Hanoi...I’m toting a MP5
That said it is [CURRENT YEAR] and would rather have a shorty carbine with 53gr soft points for all your dope den demolition needs
I like the UMP. Again, people think I am on acid but I liked the .45 one.
MP5s are nice but I always felt the colt SMG was comfier. If we was raiding Hanoi...I’m toting a MP5
That said it is [CURRENT YEAR] and would rather have a shorty carbine with 53gr soft points for all your dope den demolition needs
I like the UMP because it is a .45, that said it's kinda large, kinda clunky and likes to jump and dive. If HK went into development and production with the MP5/45 it would have been the greatest thing ever.
But "Hans and Franz" were working on their new plastic SMG I and SMG IIs and had become bored with the MP5. They have also tried to discontinue production of the MP5 several times in the last 20 years but nobody will let them.
The problem is the UMP didn't revolutionize the SMG market in the same way the USP did with the handgun market. In many ways the UMP wasn't a dramatic improvement over the MP5 design except in terms of caliber, this is why almost nobody is interested in the UMP 9.
I dunno. I’ve used an UMP for work and had full confidence in it. It would feed Winchester Ranger +P and was best as a semi auto. Full auto took a little getting used to but was kinda impractical except like pretty close in.
It was optics and light ready and looks heavier than it is. The real weight of it is the 50 rounds of .45 if you mag cinched it. Never got to fire one suppressed though so I cannot speak to that but if I couldn’t have an AR, I would take it over an MP5. Stupid simple to maintain. And once you get used to it, the gun really does check a lot of police boxes. At least vis a vis for a time when pistol calibers were somewhat relevant.
I mean you plunk a EOtech on and you really can’t miss. Pretty compact for what it is and esp on steel and reactive targets that .45 THUMP is sooooo satisfying.
Trigger is what it is but I loved it. I want to get a USC and make my own.
I would take it over an MP5. All day. It has its critics but I never had a problem with it.
Plus it has a bolt release.
My dream PCC is an MP5/10. I got to play with one super briefly and am aware of its quirks and issues but man oh man they are neat.
I dunno. I’ve used an UMP for work and had full confidence in it. It would feed Winchester Ranger +P and was best as a semi auto. Full auto took a little getting used to but was kinda impractical except like pretty close in.
It was optics and light ready and looks heavier than it is. The real weight of it is the 50 rounds of .45 if you mag cinched it. Never got to fire one suppressed though so I cannot speak to that but if I couldn’t have an AR, I would take it over an MP5. Stupid simple to maintain. And once you get used to it, the gun really does check a lot of police boxes. At least vis a vis for a time when pistol calibers were somewhat relevant.
I mean you plunk a EOtech on and you really can’t miss. Pretty compact for what it is and esp on steel and reactive targets that .45 THUMP is sooooo satisfying.
Trigger is what it is but I loved it. I want to get a USC and make my own.
I would take it over an MP5. All day. It has its critics but I never had a problem with it.
Plus it has a bolt release.
My dream PCC is an MP5/10. I got to play with one super briefly and am aware of its quirks and issues but man oh man they are neat.
The MP5/40 was the answer. Bolt lock back, good caliber (for the time), and roller-delayed.
As far as the UMP .45 - it is an SMG not a semi-auto rifle - you can't tell me the UMP fired bursts better than an MP5.
Since they (HK) aren't likely to make a .45 cal MP5, my first would be the Mp5/40 (with parts support) and next the MP5.
I believe HK saw the patrol rifles coming down the pike and realized that the demand for SMG's, in particular expensive 9mm SMG's, was going to drop, so they brought out the UMP's. I do not understand why they were so dead set on killing the MP5/40, either.
I'm a strapping lad and the 45 UMP on full auto took me for a ride so...admittedly it isnt the best SMG ever. But for a squat .45 gun that COULD be full auto....it rules.
I liked it. Never messed with a 40 MP5 but I want a 10mm because if you are going to be a bear be a grizzly.
I'll never have auto sear money but I can work dat finger. Load it up with Silvertips or Buffalo Bore, put on the military collapsible stock and a red dot and whomever deigns to enter my pillow fort will be answering to a Centimeter of Justice.
gunnerblue
01-30-19, 20:46
We have UMP 40’s at work and they really are a different gun with an optic (also an Eotech). Easily controllable with short bursts and popular with ATVs and like due to the folding stock.
I dunno. I’ve used an UMP for work and had full confidence in it. It would feed Winchester Ranger +P and was best as a semi auto. Full auto took a little getting used to but was kinda impractical except like pretty close in.
It was optics and light ready and looks heavier than it is. The real weight of it is the 50 rounds of .45 if you mag cinched it. Never got to fire one suppressed though so I cannot speak to that but if I couldn’t have an AR, I would take it over an MP5. Stupid simple to maintain. And once you get used to it, the gun really does check a lot of police boxes. At least vis a vis for a time when pistol calibers were somewhat relevant.
I mean you plunk a EOtech on and you really can’t miss. Pretty compact for what it is and esp on steel and reactive targets that .45 THUMP is sooooo satisfying.
Trigger is what it is but I loved it. I want to get a USC and make my own.
I would take it over an MP5. All day. It has its critics but I never had a problem with it.
Plus it has a bolt release.
My dream PCC is an MP5/10. I got to play with one super briefly and am aware of its quirks and issues but man oh man they are neat.
UMPs w/ suppressor are the only real high point. Otherwise, MP5 all day long. Shoot a UMP 9 and you will understand why the design is inferior to the MP5.
For .45 SMGs, it's probably best in class, so I understand that appeal.
MountainRaven
01-31-19, 01:39
I have yet to find a better subgun light setup than the old Surefire integrated light fore-end for the MP5 - with an upgraded LED, of course. Which is largely why I think I'd still take an MP5 over any other subgun currently available.
And in 45, I'd probably give serious thought to some of the B&T subguns over the UMP, but I don't have any experience with any of them (except some handling of the semi-auto, 922(r)-compliant USC-thing).
I have yet to find a better subgun light setup than the old Surefire integrated light fore-end for the MP5 - with an upgraded LED, of course. Which is largely why I think I'd still take an MP5 over any other subgun currently available.
Actually I hated them. Squishy guard with a tape switch. Fortunately Streamlight made a simple rail mount that attached to the side of the front sight and the retaining screw replaced the handguard push pin.
It is perfect, I can run a SureFire 300 on or off in seconds, and with a little dremel tool wizardry you can modify the mount so a 3 lug suppressor can still be installed.
https://i.imgur.com/nnQDl4P.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RzplaMb.jpg
Diamondback
01-31-19, 02:01
It’s a good time for 80s kids to collect the guns of our fathers.
CAR15s, retro optics, futurized AR-180s, and Bren 2s that let you live out your Strike Back fantasy without debasing yourself by owning an AK.
Who all other than Brownells? I'm debating between several options looking for an N1-type fiberlite stock to go onto a C8 build... Tempted to just Easy Button and get both stock and slimline handguards from TNTE since the latter are limited-edition.
HK's incompetence is non-denominational. Nobody has been able to buy a VP9OR even in Europe.
"Ve do not SELL ze gut veapons to ze mere pissant proles und osser Untermenschen... HK, because you suck and we hate you."
https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/HKbulletsBackwards.jpg
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