View Full Version : 5 LEOs shot in TX
Breaking story, but sounds like bad mojo all around:
Houston station KHOU reports from police that one suspect is dead, but it is still an active scene in the southeast part of the city where five Houston police officers were shot.
Two more suspects remain inside the house where officers were serving a warrant when they were ambushed, the station reports.
The shooting happened a little before 4 p.m. in a residential area a few blocks from a high school.
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HPD and HCSO SWAT teams are at the scene.
Update, 5:50 p.m.
Houston police confirm a suspect is dead in a Monday afternoon shooting in which five officers were injured and rushed to local hospitals. It happened just before 4 p.m. in a residential neighborhood in the southeast part of the city.
Houston station KHOU reports from sources that there may be at least one other suspect in the shooting.
It's not clear what led to the shooting. KHOU says four injured officers were transported by ambulance with the fifth airlifted from the scene.
https://www.kwch.com/content/news/At-least-5-police-officers-shot-in-Houston-504991641.html
The officers were reportedly serving a narcotics warrant.
Life Flight was called to the scene. All the officers have been taken to Memorial Hermann Hospital.
Details are coming in to Eyewitness News, but we are learning two suspects are dead at the scene. Sources say a third suspect is believed to be barricaded inside the house.
Holy shit. Blow him up like the asshole a few years ago. Hopefully the officers all pull through.
Holy shit. Blow him up like the asshole a few years ago. Hopefully the officers all pull through.
Although the latter was my first thought, the former is OK by me.
A little inside information...
Two bad guys dead
One cop treated and released
Two cops treated and admitted for observation.
Two cops critical and both shot in the neck.
thopkins22
01-28-19, 22:13
I was there today. Narcotics raid. Asked for additional patrol officers before they went in, not for the raid but for perimeter.
Only one life flight but I’m not sure if both critical officers were on board. Three ambulances. I know the last guy to report that he was hit was not serious at all. The radios were getting hot for a long time before he spoke up that it was actually five officers shot. Definitely shut down the highways to get them to Memorial Hermann(which is strange because Ben Taub has a level 1 trauma center and was closer.)
Cartel related...not sure why 4:30 was the right time for kicking doors...but I’m sure there was a reason because it wasn’t exactly planned in advance.
Cartel related...
I wish I could be shocked about that.
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thepatriot2705
01-29-19, 01:11
I’m sure there was a reason because it wasn’t exactly planned in advance.
Build the wall and secure the border already. Hope those officers pull through.
On a side note, my tinfoil hat was tingling. There have been 9 mass shootings where 3 or more have died so far this year. Amazing how we get an uptick of violence when dems take any power (in this case, the house).
The fact it wasn’t exactly planned has my tinfoil hat in over drive. I apologize if the ladder part of my post is insensitive.
I remember when Carter imported what would become the Cuban mafia back in 1980 and a three way "drug war" between them, Columbian suppliers and established Italians like Trafficante broke out over control of the drug trade and Miami became the murder capital of the world several years running.
The Cubans were unorganized and making it up as they went along.
The Columbians were more organized but still trying to understand how things are done and get established.
The Italians had been established since the 60s, some say the 50s, and for a long time in the 70s didn't even understand there was a new product on the market and some competition.
What they all had in common is they didn't have a plan except for violence and a "own your corner" mentality. The shit coming up from Mexico, by contrast, is very organized and has a definite game plan and lots of force in place. And this is why it means nothing to them to light up a crew of cops in the middle of the day.
For all the scarface wannabes in South Florida during the 80s, most knew "you can't kill cops", "you can't kill civies" and do your best to keep internal conflicts under the radar and off the news. Mexicans by contrast simply DGAF and it's going to be a different drug war.
I was there today.
Joe Gamaldi straight crushed it with his statement, I wish every association president would speak like that to the media. Sounds like all of the good guys will eventually pull through.
SilverBullet432
01-29-19, 13:22
We had 3 LEO’s shot a week ago while serving a warrant here. One got grazed on the mouth. All 3 made it okay. 1 perp dead.
Houston police identify 2 suspects killed in gun battle that injured 5 officers
https://www.ksat.com/news/watch-live-houston-police-provide-update-on-shootout-that-hospitalized-5-officers?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=ksat12&fbclid=IwAR3DKOBlyGYW5yyv1Z27rkXHNXkWy_CDm1yOoeoxMX2O4yyz6hhI2EPHeiU
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-29-19, 14:17
Yikes. Been involved in many raids that started with the same setup, luckily ended much differently.
glockshooter
01-29-19, 18:11
This situation is why we will not do dope rescues anymore. The dope they got out of the house isn’t worth the injuries to the officers. Many departments have gotten away from that practice. Something as simple as waiting for them to leave and doing a vehicle takedown or simple traffic stop could have eliminated some if not all of the injuries.
Sounding a bit like they got "swatted": https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/neighbors-shocked-easygoing-couple-accused-of-shooting-hpd-officers/285-d804657a-0333-4e54-9f13-a946ad39b0d7
I wish I could be shocked about that.
Agreed.
Those members of Congress that have obstructed US border security should be charged as accomplices to all of the crimes the cartels commit.
I am too angry for words.
Hope these officers make a full recovery, God bless them and heal them.
Those members of Congress that have obstructed US border security should be charged as accomplices to all of the crimes the cartels commit.
This is how we make America great again.
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ThirdWatcher
01-29-19, 22:13
This situation is why we will not do dope rescues anymore. The dope they got out of the house isn’t worth the injuries to the officers. Many departments have gotten away from that practice. Something as simple as waiting for them to leave and doing a vehicle takedown or simple traffic stop could have eliminated some if not all of the injuries.
+1. Makes good sense to me.
This situation is why we will not do dope rescues anymore. The dope they got out of the house isn’t worth the injuries to the officers. Many departments have gotten away from that practice. Something as simple as waiting for them to leave and doing a vehicle takedown or simple traffic stop could have eliminated some if not all of the injuries.
I was surprised to see that they only got a few weapons, weed, and maybe coke.
Coal Dragger
01-29-19, 22:45
Hope the officers make a full recovery.
The war on drugs doesn’t work, just like Prohibition didn’t work. We don’t learn from history in this country. What a waste.
thopkins22
01-29-19, 22:58
I was surprised to see that they only got a few weapons, weed, and maybe coke.
UC’s successfully purchased heroine at the house. Bad timing/interesting point made earlier about rescuing drugs.
Hope the officers make a full recovery.
The war on drugs doesn’t work, just like Prohibition didn’t work. We don’t learn from history in this country. What a waste.
There was also a time heroin and hard drugs were legal. Making them legal again would be failing to learn from that part of history.
Coal Dragger
01-29-19, 23:55
Making drugs illegal hasn’t prevented trade in drugs or use of them. Just increased incarceration rates, and wasting money and lives.
thopkins22
01-30-19, 00:03
There was also a time heroin and hard drugs were legal. Making them legal again would be failing to learn from that part of history.
The lesson is that there was no epidemic as we know it today, black market drug economies didn’t exist so the disputes could be handled in the courts, and personal responsibility is important.
Were there opium dens? Sure. There are opium dens today. There are also pain management centers where plenty of people who actually do need medication are lined up for opiates. Never mind the people that don’t need it.
Look at countries where addiction to opiates and other hard drugs is treated as a medical condition vs a criminal act, and look at their usage/addiction rates vs ours. We’re not learning lessons that are all around us.
But...given that it is illegal, only the biggest pieces of shit deal heroine. It’s not like a pot dealer or even a coke dealer where you might say “totally unproductive member of society, but may have some redeeming qualities and might not be a dog shit human being.”
The lesson is that there was no epidemic as we know it today, black market drug economies didn’t exist so the disputes could be handled in the courts, and personal responsibility is important.
Were there opium dens? Sure. There are opium dens today. There are also pain management centers where plenty of people who actually do need medication are lined up for opiates. Never mind the people that don’t need it.
Look at countries where addiction to opiates and other hard drugs is treated as a medical condition vs a criminal act, and look at their usage/addiction rates vs ours. We’re not learning lessons that are all around us.
But...given that it is illegal, only the biggest pieces of shit deal heroine. It’s not like a pot dealer or even a coke dealer where you might say “totally unproductive member of society, but may have some redeeming qualities and might not be a dog shit human being.”
I understand that argument. But when your kids get killed by somebody driving high on heroin it changes the debate. I understand people still get heroin, I understand people still drive while high on heroin, but having it legal makes additional people assume it's somehow ok.
Personally I propose supervised clinic where any drug is legal, affordable and taxes BUT you cannot leave under the influence. And if that creates a situation where users are basically self incarcerated I'm fine with that outcome.
What would Duterte do?
I’m not opposed to crucifixions and clean sweep orders on cartels
I likewise don’t have a problem with decriminalizing drugs.
Still...somebody gotta pay for these shot police....
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-30-19, 13:05
I was surprised to see that they only got a few weapons, weed, and maybe coke.
That is, unfortunately, how the game goes sometimes. There can be days where there are kilos in the house, and days where there is residue left on a scale. Good timing, good CI's, and a little bit of luck are required.
I wonder if the bus (ambulance) was staged, or if they had Tac Med? The helo was overkill.
thopkins22
01-30-19, 13:30
I wonder if the bus (ambulance) was staged, or if they had Tac Med? The helo was overkill.
No and I’m not sure. If you get shot in the neck as rush hour is beginning, I don’t think you’d feel like it was overkill.
Patient outcome is the metric by which one measures effectiveness of the resources, and doubt there's anything that the helo could have done differently than EMS. Interestingly, Philadelphia Police department has taken to throwing gunshot victims in the back of their squad cars and taking them to the hospital, and they have a better outcome than gunshot victims transported by EMS.
But at the very least they should have had a bus on standby.
No and I’m not sure. If you get shot in the neck as rush hour is beginning, I don’t think you’d feel like it was overkill.
THIS. Huge facts
I understand that argument. But when your kids get killed by somebody driving high on heroin it changes the debate. I understand people still get heroin, I understand people still drive while high on heroin, but having it legal makes additional people assume it's somehow ok.
I'd argue that alcohol is a greater danger to the driving public, simply because it generally increases the persons likelihood of exhibiting aggressive and uninhibited behavior, which translates to increased risk taking behind the wheel.
Heroin users generally aren't out running around when under the influence, are they? (Honest question, I know signs ans symptoms, but haven't had much contact)
I am familiar with Houston, very familiar with their fire department, and familiar with Hermann Life Flight. I wonder what the transport times were? What was the injury, specifically? The only thing that crew could have done any differently was give blood, maybe, maybe not.
I look at these things dispassionately based on patient outcome. I'm glad he got into the hospital fast, just not sure it was the right resource. I don't know.
I am familiar with Houston, very familiar with their fire department, and familiar with Hermann Life Flight. I wonder what the transport times were? What was the injury, specifically? The only thing that crew could have done any differently was give blood, maybe, maybe not. I look at these things dispassionately based on patient outcome. I'm glad he got into the hospital fast, just not sure it was the right resource. I don't know.
I've been out of the loop for 8 years. That's close to my old A/O. There were TWO places to go in Houston if you needed level one trauma. Memorial Herman and Ben Taub. Both are WORLD CLASS. HFD Paramedics were 1st class then, probably still are. Life Flight Houston wrote the book and is the standard by which all other parts of the country try to match.
With that said, the SECOND the "officers down" call went out, Life Flight was probably alerted and went into go mode. The bird was probably in flight AS the officers were cleared from the hot zone. In a case like this, seconds are minutes, and minutes are hours. If you are in the trauma center within one hour, your chances of survival increase exponentially. It's why they call it the golden hour. The Houston ares does NOT screw around with downed officers of fire fighters. Period.
I'd argue that alcohol is a greater danger to the driving public, simply because it generally increases the persons likelihood of exhibiting aggressive and uninhibited behavior, which translates to increased risk taking behind the wheel.
Heroin users generally aren't out running around when under the influence, are they? (Honest question, I know signs ans symptoms, but haven't had much contact)
But there are people who can drink alcohol without ending up with a substance dependency. Heroin, not so much.
And I completely disagree that heroin users don't cause problems, how many pictures do you need to see of addicts passed out in the drivers seat?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=heroin+users+passed+out+in+cars&FORM=HDRSC2
One of the reasons I left Florida last years was that shit was everywhere including an incident where somebody passed out on my street and the car literally ended up in my front yard. I had 5 addicts on my street (that I knew of) and I saw all of them drive every day (usually to go buy heroin).
Probably once a week I'd see a car in the middle of the street that was running, every time the driver was passed out from something.
No and I’m not sure. If you get shot in the neck as rush hour is beginning, I don’t think you’d feel like it was overkill.
No shit. In FL my property taxes were incredible because every ambulance had to maintain a huge supply of Narcan to save addicts. If we can fund that BS, we can fly a cop. In fact, I'd be ok with LifeFlights for any regular citizen who was shot in the neck through no fault of their own.
I've been out of the loop for 8 years. That's close to my old A/O. There were TWO places to go in Houston if you needed level one trauma. Memorial Herman and Ben Taub. Both are WORLD CLASS. HFD Paramedics were 1st class then, probably still are. Life Flight Houston wrote the book and is the standard by which all other parts of the country try to match.
With that said, the SECOND the "officers down" call went out, Life Flight was probably alerted and went into go mode. The bird was probably in flight AS the officers were cleared from the hot zone. In a case like this, seconds are minutes, and minutes are hours. If you are in the trauma center within one hour, your chances of survival increase exponentially. It's why they call it the golden hour. The Houston ares does NOT screw around with downed officers of fire fighters. Period.
I had family that lived right outside of Houston, still do. I actually turned down a job with Hermann Life Flight to work with Carolina AirCare with UNC Chapel Hill, here. So I am intimately familiar with that program. Hermann is good, but it ain't Maryland State Police good, and the protocols of a few other agencies are actually probably a little better for trauma scene runs. But that is neither here nor there.
I doubt there's much I can know about how trauma centers run, the chain of survival, or any of that stuff. But I am very interested in how the helo is used in the urban environment because there is a growing body of literature that suggests the patient outcomes are not any better for trauma between a helo, and EMS, but actual better outcomes with patient survival with cops just tossing victims into their squad cars and hauling ass to the ER.
Certainly not making assumptions about your experience, or anyone else's, but I definitely know where my lane is. My experience there is dated (beyond your 8 years), so I am definitely out of the loop re: HFD and Hermann LF.
MountainRaven
01-30-19, 18:07
I'd argue that alcohol is a greater danger to the driving public, simply because it generally increases the persons likelihood of exhibiting aggressive and uninhibited behavior, which translates to increased risk taking behind the wheel.
Heroin users generally aren't out running around when under the influence, are they? (Honest question, I know signs ans symptoms, but haven't had much contact)
Along these lines...
I understand that argument. But when your kids get killed by somebody driving high on heroin it changes the debate. I understand people still get heroin, I understand people still drive while high on heroin, but having it legal makes additional people assume it's somehow ok.
Is it better or worse when your kid gets killed by one of the estimated 8.1 million Americans who are alcoholics (of the 13.8 million Americans estimated to have a problem with alcohol) rather than one of the estimated 948,000 Americans who use heroin?
I don't think that making something legal makes something seem OK. How many kids drink because it's something they're not supposed to do? How many people think owning a gun is immoral despite it being legal? Smoking is still legal, but the number of people who do it is dropping (although some of that population is going to e-cigarettes and vaping machines - and some of the people who would have started smoking are using e-cigs instead).
I'm not saying, necessarily, that legalizing heroin would result in a reduction in the number of people using/abusing it because it's no longer forbidden (like kids smoking cigarettes, drinking booze, and/or having unsafe sex), but that I think saying more people will start doing it because it's legal is somewhat specious.
Personally I propose supervised clinic where any drug is legal, affordable and taxes BUT you cannot leave under the influence. And if that creates a situation where users are basically self incarcerated I'm fine with that outcome.
I think that's a good solution that has worked well for Switzerland, at the very least.
thopkins22
01-30-19, 20:29
Please keep in mind when comparing the two, that Houston has more than six times the population than Philadelphia.
Keep in mind that 288 is under construction and is an absolute cluster****.
Keep in mind that Rush hour was beginning, on roads that simply can’t open up for ambulances because there is nowhere to pull over to.
I can tell you with complete certainty that the help arrived before the ambulances, because I heard it stated on the radio while the first two ambulances were just getting going.
Putting people in cars and hauling ass may be faster, I don’t know. But I can promise you that in this case, the helo was faster than an ambulance.
And the helo’s have physicians on board...it’s a baby ER that arrives on scene.
Along these lines...
Is it better or worse when your kid gets killed by one of the estimated 8.1 million Americans who are alcoholics (of the 13.8 million Americans estimated to have a problem with alcohol) rather than one of the estimated 948,000 Americans who use heroin?
I don't think that making something legal makes something seem OK.
I think you know the answer to that question. But heroin impairs a person more quickly and with greater severity than alcohol. But my main point was there are millions of people who can drink alcohol without abusing it, can't say the same for heroin.
As for legality, absolutely makes a difference. If a kid see's adults smoking and drinking, kids want to emulate that behavior. But most kids (normal kids) usually don't see their parents scoring heroin and shooting up.
I think that's a good solution that has worked well for Switzerland, at the very least.
Not surprised Switzerland has their shit together. Making premium chocolate, watches and firearms. War? They are pretty much sidelines but will be happy to hold your wallet while you fight.
sundance435
01-31-19, 11:46
I think that's a good solution that has worked well for Switzerland, at the very least.
Not surprised Switzerland has their shit together. Making premium chocolate, watches and firearms. War? They are pretty much sidelines but will be happy to hold your wallet while you fight.
A country of 8.5 million the size of South Carolina with a 100% service economy that can afford to subsidize the relatively few "have nots". Comparisons to other countries are nearly worthless.
Getting back to the shooting if I am not missing anything it says that one guy with a revolver ambushed and shot all those officers. Is that correct? That was from the initial reports.
A country of 8.5 million the size of South Carolina with a 100% service economy that can afford to subsidize the relatively few "have nots". Comparisons to other countries are nearly worthless.
True. But we could do the same with some level of success. The program would likely pay for itself given the cost of taking care of addicts at the current level.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-31-19, 14:43
Getting back to the shooting if I am not missing anything it says that one guy with a revolver ambushed and shot all those officers. Is that correct? That was from the initial reports.
Thats what I got from it. Speed and surprise combined with violence and determination can make one very dangerous. Thats very good shooting with a DA revolver, thank god he didnt have a reputable semi-auto.
A no knock in plain clothes, officers fired first to kill the dog, no heroin found, event still under investigation, 1 officer relieved of duty so far, and now this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/07/police-chief-demands-congress-act-guns-doing-nothing-is-not-acceptable/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b0281bc74e53
thopkins22
02-08-19, 19:18
A no knock in plain clothes, officers fired first to kill the dog, no heroin found, event still under investigation, 1 officer terminated so far, and now this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/07/police-chief-demands-congress-act-guns-doing-nothing-is-not-acceptable/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b0281bc74e53
Yep. Beginning to sound like the affidavit had some lies in it. Maybe heroine wasn’t purchased there after all?
Houston is the fourth largest city in the nation. We haven’t had a pro-gun Chief of HPD in forever. Not one individual NFA transfer has happened here in ages, until Obama’s ATF made it easier.
Yep. Beginning to sound like the affidavit had some lies in it. Maybe heroine wasn’t purchased there after all?
Houston is the fourth largest city in the nation. We haven’t had a pro-gun Chief of HPD in forever. Not one individual NFA transfer has happened here in ages, until Obama’s ATF made it easier.
We do appreciate, however, you guys taking our previous one.
Averageman
02-08-19, 21:46
Interesting take on this case here
https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/01/did-the-couple-killed-by-houston-narcs-ke;
The trail leading to the bungled drug raid that killed a middle-aged couple at their home in Houston on Monday began with a January 8 phone call from an anonymous woman who claimed to be standing outside the house and looking through a window. The woman told police "her daughter was in the house, and there were guns and heroin," Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo said at a press conference yesterday.
Two patrol officers dispatched to the house could not find the caller, but they reported that they heard another woman who was walking down the street say "the police are at the dope house" while talking on a cellphone. The officers called the woman who made the complaint. "She stated she did not want to give any information because they were drug dealers and they would kill her," Acevedo said. "She wanted the officers to go into the house and get her daughter."
The officers explained that they had no authority to do that, but they shared the information with the Houston Police Department's Narcotics Division, which began an investigation on January 11. The investigation included a "controlled buy" by a confidential informant who reported seeing a 9mm semi-automatic pistol and "a large quantity of plastic baggies" containing black-tar heroin at the house on Sunday.
Police found neither of those things when they searched the house the next day after breaking down the door and setting off a shootout in which Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas were killed and five officers were injured. Acevedo said there was no heroin, just "small amounts" of cocaine and marijuana. And contrary to the anonymous complainant's description of Tuttle and Nicholas as scary, bloodthirsty drug dealers, neither had any criminal record to speak of, and both were described by neighbors as "wonderful people" who "never bothered anybody.
Despite his repeated promises of "transparency" and "accountability," Acevedo was also hazy on the crucial point of whether Tuttle knew that the armed men breaking into his house, whose first action after entering was to kill his dog with a shotgun, were police officers. Narcotics officers executing search warrants "don't show up in uniform," Acevedo said, "but they do show up with plenty of gear that identifies them as police officers, including patrol officers that are out in front of the house."
Body camera video of the raid might have helped clarify this issue, but there is none. "Body-worn cameras are still a pretty new technology," Acevedo said. "Over the last two or three years, we've been deploying them. Our priority was to get body-worn cameras into the hands of the people that are most prone and most likely to be involved in a use-of-force or a response-to-resistance incident or a complaint....The majority of the incidents involve patrol, so that's been our priority."
Body camera video of the raid might have helped clarify this issue, but there is none. "Body-worn cameras are still a pretty new technology," Acevedo said. "Over the last two or three years, we've been deploying them. Our priority was to get body-worn cameras into the hands of the people that are most prone and most likely to be involved in a use-of-force or a response-to-resistance incident or a complaint....The majority of the incidents involve patrol, so that's been our priority."
I dunno a thing about Police work, but I do know one thing, apparently these folks took a tip from an anonymous caller and then used a confidential informant to verify what was going on in that apartment and apparently neither of those sources got it right.
I also think the issue of conducting "No Knock Raids" without body cameras, at least in Texas where everyone is packing is stupid and negligent.
If they want to do no-knocks then they should suffer full consequences when they get it wrong. Especially when executing on anonymous tips. “Confirmed” by a drug using criminal CI. Outfitted in street clothes likely intended to blend in with drug users. And shooting their dog. And intentionally not wearing body cams.
Raids like this set back any “community policing” efforts four decades. How are police not aware of disgruntled neighbors and other enemies using SWATting to attack others? How about backing up tips and CIs with actual police work?
Averageman
02-08-19, 22:36
Well, it all like it or not comes back to Chief Art Acevedo.
You can delegate everything but responsibility at the end of this the Chief needs to come out and make some decisions about how things will be done in the future.
No Knock Raids perhaps should be a last resort.
No knocks raids will never be based upon anonymous or CI sources.
If you have to do a no knock raid, you have to be wearing a body cam.
Every possible attempt will be used to make these arrests in cars during a traffic stop.
I mean, like I said, I don't know a damn thing about Police work, but I don't think the Chief is right.
Ugh No knocks....
If you reasonably believe that a kidnap victim is in there and need to stage a daring Zero Dark Thirty raid after some EXHAUSTIVE training with ALL the evidence and warrants to support your actions then game on.
Over dope? Naaaaash....
Narcotics officers executing search warrants "don't show up in uniform," Acevedo said, "but they do show up with plenty of gear that identifies them as police officers, including patrol officers that are out in front of the house."
]
People who's doors are kicked in suddenly don't typically go looking out the windows first. And most aren't going to focus in on a badge on the belt or hanging over the neck or see some shoulder patch. I mean.....your door is kicked in....do you notice the color of the belt buckle the Mofo was wearing? How about the style or color of his shirt?
I dunno a thing about Police work, but I do know one thing, apparently these folks took a tip from an anonymous caller and then used a confidential informant to verify what was going on in that apartment and apparently neither of those sources got it right.
Sounding more and more like a swatting to me. Or that the lady calling in about her daughter gave them the wrong address.
Ugh No knocks....
If you reasonably believe that a kidnap victim is in there and need to stage a daring Zero Dark Thirty raid after some EXHAUSTIVE training with ALL the evidence and warrants to support your actions then game on.
Over dope? Naaaaash....
No knocks are over used and downright abused, and put both LE and citizens at unnecessary risk in my view. In very specific cases, such as you outline, can't be justified in my non professional opinion.
Ugh No knocks....
If you reasonably believe that a kidnap victim is in there and need to stage a daring Zero Dark Thirty raid after some EXHAUSTIVE training with ALL the evidence and warrants to support your actions then game on.
Over dope? Naaaaash....
Completely agree.
Averageman
02-09-19, 11:20
No knocks are over used and downright abused, and put both LE and citizens at unnecessary risk in my view. In very specific cases, such as you outline, can't be justified in my non professional opinion.
Just my own bias shining through here, but..
Acevedo was Chief in Austin, our State Capital for a number of years. In my observation, he came here from California and brought a lot of California attitude with him. There has never been a camera or a microphone made that Acevedo didn't love, or play to.
He's much more of a Politician than a LEO. I know, at that level, Political Chiefs are most likely in the majority rather than the minority, but he was definitely playing hard to move up the ladder.
So if you're a Chief in one of our five or so largest Cities in the United States, why are you still allowing "No Knocks", why don't all of your Officers have cameras and why don't you quit allowing Anonymous Sources and Confidential Informants to be the basis for a drug related warrant for a no knock raid?
Perhaps his star has been to bright for too lang and he's reached the upper limits of his capabilities as a Chief?
In my observation, he came here from California and brought a lot of California attitude with him.
Biography prior to HPD:
Art Acevedo has served as Chief of the Austin (TX) Police Department since 2007. He leads a department of 2,400 sworn law enforcement and support personnel who carry out police operations within the City of Austin, as well as the Austin-Bergstrom International Airport, city parks and lakes, and municipal courts. Born in Cuba, Acevedo migrated to the United States with his family in 1968. He grew up in California and earned his Bachelor of Science degree, with honors, in Public Administration from the University of La Verne in California. Acevedo began his career in law enforcement as field patrol officer in East Los Angeles with the California Highway Patrol in 1986. He was subsequently promoted through various positions of increasing responsibility to Chief, California Highway Patrol, in 2005. He holds various leadership positions with the Major Cities Chiefs Association and the International Association of Chiefs of Police. He is married to Tanya Born Acevedo and is the father of Melissa, Matthew, and Jake.
Meehhh we’ll just say I feel your pain
Ugh No knocks....
If you reasonably believe that a kidnap victim is in there and need to stage a daring Zero Dark Thirty raid after some EXHAUSTIVE training with ALL the evidence and warrants to support your actions then game on.
Over dope? Naaaaash....
Pretty much, but if they have the right house, I'm still not going to blame "no knocks", I'm going to blame the criminals who shot the cops. Now if they have the wrong house, then it's 100% on them and that is why I don't think they should be used except in the most extreme cases.
I understand that argument. But when your kids get killed by somebody driving high on heroin it changes the debate. I understand people still get heroin, I understand people still drive while high on heroin, but having it legal makes additional people assume it's somehow ok.
Personally I propose supervised clinic where any drug is legal, affordable and taxes BUT you cannot leave under the influence. And if that creates a situation where users are basically self incarcerated I'm fine with that outcome.
Curious...how many kids are killed by drunk drivers vs. drivers on heroine?
The war on drugs was created to generate revenue. All else be damned.
Oh, now Houston police chief is mad that a .357 revolver was used to defend the home (where many packages of drugs and tons of weapons...allegedly...were...but somehow weren't recovered...). So guns need to be banned.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/politics/hpd-chief-acevedo-testifies-about-gun-control-to-congress/5125228/
Oh, now Houston police chief is mad that a .357 revolver was used to defend the home (where many packages of drugs and tons of weapons...allegedly...were...but somehow weren't recovered...). So guns need to be banned.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/politics/hpd-chief-acevedo-testifies-about-gun-control-to-congress/5125228/
Not an AR nor evil Glock pistol. Hmmmm
Oh, now Houston police chief is mad that a .357 revolver was used to defend the home (where many packages of drugs and tons of weapons...allegedly...were...but somehow weren't recovered...). So guns need to be banned.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/politics/hpd-chief-acevedo-testifies-about-gun-control-to-congress/5125228/
Whenever I hear “if it saves just one life” I shutdown and turn off. Because if they really wanted to “save just one life” they could ban lots of other things less useful than guns. Like swimming pools, alcohol, texting, etc..... You know, for the children.
New info, at least to me, turns out the lady that made the phone call that started this whole CF was the mother of the female shot and killed during the raid.
Also, "The weapons included a Beretta shotgun, a Winchester rifle and a Remington shotgun and rifle, according to the report."
https://abc13.com/what-was-found-in-home-after-deadly-drug-raid-hpd-warrant/5127653/
2 shotguns and 2 rifles? I wonder where that mystery 357 went to?
Well, it all like it or not comes back to Chief Art Acevedo.
You can delegate everything but responsibility at the end of this the Chief needs to come out and make some decisions about how things will be done in the future.
No Knock Raids perhaps should be a last resort.
No knocks raids will never be based upon anonymous or CI sources.
If you have to do a no knock raid, you have to be wearing a body cam.
Every possible attempt will be used to make these arrests in cars during a traffic stop.
I mean, like I said, I don't know a damn thing about Police work, but I don't think the Chief is right.
Assuming this incident is what it is beginning to look like, why should anyone involved continue to have authority over anyone?
Someone be lying. If the CI made a heroin buy then the police chief should have a little bag of heroin marked Exhibit A, right? And video of the CI making the buy marked Exhibit B, right? And audio recording (you know like every cell phone can do nowadays) of the CI reporting to the detective, right?
How does “My 53 yr old daughter is in her home doing drugs, can you go help her get straight?” turn into “We got us a cartel distribution center we need to raid ASAP!”
Who it that neighborhood will ever call the police to help someone they don’t want dead? Across the country there have been other calls for help that ended up in no knock raids or gun blazing assaults killing the very relative who the caller wanted to help. Seems soon as “gun” or”drugs” are mentioned regardless of context it is game ion and mofos must die, in some depts.
titsonritz
02-10-19, 18:55
Pretty much, but if they have the right house, I'm still not going to blame "no knocks", I'm going to blame the criminals who shot the cops. Now if they have the wrong house, then it's 100% on them and that is why I don't think they should be used except in the most extreme cases.
I'm starting to wonder if the couple knew it was a raid by cops or thought it was a home invasion.
There's more to this story.
Averageman
02-14-19, 08:49
I'm starting to wonder if the couple knew it was a raid by cops or thought it was a home invasion.
There's more to this story.
Here's more to the story:
https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/08/houston-cop-involved-in-deadly-drug-raid
An undercover narcotics officer who was involved in the bungled drug raid that killed a middle-aged couple in their Houston home last week "has been relieved of duty due to ongoing questions that cannot be answered until the case agent is interviewed," the local police union revealed in a statement yesterday.
KHOU says detectives plan to interview the C.I. to see if his account matches the information in the warrant affidavit. The author of the affidavit, whose name is blacked out in the publicly released copy, swore that he searched the C.I. before sending him to make a "controlled buy," that the C.I. emerged from the house with "a quantity of brown powder" later identified as black-tar heroin, that he was watching the C.I. the whole time, and that afterward "surveillance was placed on the above location in question by the narcotics officers." Since the alleged heroin and 9mm pistol had disappeared by the time police broke into the house the following evening, it seems likely that one or more of those details was not accurate.
The police union's statement decried "rumors" that the narcotics officers had raided the wrong house by mistake. "To be clear," it said, "officers were not on the wrong street and entry at that location was not made at random. We would refer you to the call slip from that location on January 8, over two weeks prior to the shooting." That record relates to a call from an anonymous woman who complained that her daughter was using drugs inside the house at 7815 Harding Street. Police Chief Art Acevedo likewise has criticized "conspiracy theorists" who speculated that the target was supposed to be 7815 Hardy Street, which is 12 miles from the house where Tuttle and Nicholas lived.
The police union's statement decried "rumors" that the narcotics officers had raided the wrong house by mistake. "To be clear," it said, "officers were not on the wrong street and entry at that location was not made at random. We would refer you to the call slip from that location on January 8, over two weeks prior to the shooting." That record relates to a call from an anonymous woman who complained that her daughter was using drugs inside the house at 7815 Harding Street. Police Chief Art Acevedo likewise has criticized "conspiracy theorists" who speculated that the target was supposed to be 7815 Hardy Street, which is 12 miles from the house where Tuttle and Nicholas lived.
The idea that the cops had gotten confused seemed plausible in light of the disappearing heroin and the testimony of neighbors who said they had never observed any suspicious activity at the house and described Tuttle and Nicholas, who had no criminal convictions and had lived on the block for more than two decades, as perfectly nice people who never caused trouble. Those comments seemed inconsistent with Acevedo's claim that the house was so notorious as a drug den that "the neighborhood thanked our officers" for raiding it.
Somebody is lying
Averageman
02-14-19, 09:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLsXPZgvbBM
Go to 2:11 where Chief Acevedo say's "When someone starts shooting at you, you get to shoot back."
Ummm, no wonder Art wants to take away your guns, you'll shoot back when people bust your door down and start shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLsXPZgvbBM
Go to 2:11 where Chief Acevedo say's "When someone starts shooting at you, you get to shoot back."
Ummm, no wonder Art wants to take away your guns, you'll shoot back when people bust your door down and start shooting.
Except Chief Avocado's officers shot first, according to what we've been told. Which said story to be blunt, doesn't even remotely add up. If we're to believe the official story so far, 1+1=17.
I don't care if they had the right house or not, an anonymous complainant and a C.I. claim that lacks supporting evidence isn't even RAS, much less PC to search a home. Not to mention getting a no-knock warrant that doesn't even turn up any evidence to support the unverified claims. For damned sure the "haul" they came up with isn't worth a single life, much less the lives of two people with no prior convictions and 5 injured officers.
This is just another in a long line of cases that prove no-knock warrants should be outlawed, and knock and announce warrants should be limited to minimum standards, to include "reasonable time" to open the door voluntarily. I've seen too many "knock and announce" warrants that the "police search warrant" was almost immediately followed by the breacher smashing the door off the hinges.
To be fair, I blame the judges just as much as the police. They have no business signing these warrants at will.
Oh and look: Here's another one where an officer is dead and the rest of another man's life is forfeit. :(
https://www.cbs58.com/news/milwaukee-police-officer-shot-near-12th-and-dakota
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/02/update-police-death-during-no-knock-raid-suspect-fired-as-door-was-broken/
So for a grand total of $60 worth of pot, a no-knock raid that resulted in 0.0 ounces of illicit drugs being seized, lives are forever ruined. Anyone who thinks the juice is worth the squeeze is quite literally, insane. :(
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-14-19, 17:27
Risk vs reward.
When the plan involves the risk being bigger than the reward, create a better plan or give it up.
"No knocks" are necessary for exigent circumstances where the reward (saving life, etc) is much greater than the risk.
I've been seriously injured on a warrant service once that seemed very simple in the beginning. I don't play the game of fast and loose anymore.
This is a touchy subject for me so suffice it to say, the Chief Avocado is wrong.
Huge facts
This is a touchy subject for me so suffice it to say, the Chief Avocado is wrong.
Huge factsGiggidy giggidyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190215/60721a10637f55e2fff8d4c919e5568f.gif
titsonritz
02-14-19, 18:07
So what happened to:
Acevedo said Monday night that officers obtained a warrant for the home based on a tip from a neighbor who said that the individuals in the home were selling narcotics. When authorities arrived to serve the warrant around 4:30 p.m., they immediately came under fire, Acevedo said.
So what happened to:
Acevedo said Monday night that officers obtained a warrant for the home based on a tip from a neighbor who said that the individuals in the home were selling narcotics. When authorities arrived to serve the warrant around 4:30 p.m., they immediately came under fire, Acevedo said.
Investigation 101: When the suspect continues changing and revising their story, they are not telling the truth. Ergo, Chief Avocado is a liar and the truth will be somewhat akin to former sheriff Scott Israel’s truth. This raid was a complete and unmitigated disaster from the very beginning.
Averageman
02-15-19, 08:15
Investigation 101: When the suspect continues changing and revising their story, they are not telling the truth. Ergo, Chief Avocado is a liar and the truth will be somewhat akin to former sheriff Scott Israel’s truth. This raid was a complete and unmitigated disaster from the very beginning.
I'm pretty sure that Chief Acevedo is hoping this will fade away and he wont have to answer anymore pointed questions about this incident anymore.
When he was in Austin he was all about shining his public relations star on TV or the Radio at every opportunity, it was rather sickening to me.
I don't want to come off as anti LEO, because I'm not, I actually often stop and thank the Officers who patrol through our neighborhood.
This guy irks me because he's much more the politician than the Cop. He's anti gun and says some of the most virulent anti gun stuff quite often and he's a Californian through and through and to be honest, he needs to go back there.
If he stepped up and advocated against these no knock warrants, or actively pursued body cams for all of his Officers or just said, "Hey, this went sideways on us and it's not going to happen again." Instead we get this kind of crap and it's sad because unless it changes, it's going to happen again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUARV21bvo
According to the union rep, people taking offense at the LE behavior they exhibited is the problem. According to the chief, being armed and attempting to deal with the behavior of their LE is the problem.
https://nypost.com/2019/02/05/scapegoats-for-a-drug-war-outrage/
According to the union rep, people taking offense at the LE behavior they exhibited is the problem. According to the chief, being armed and attempting to deal with the behavior of their LE is the problem.
https://nypost.com/2019/02/05/scapegoats-for-a-drug-war-outrage/
They can both EABOD.
HPD undercover cop's story about deadly raid, drug buy not adding up, affidavit alleges
https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/hpd-undercover-cops-story-about-deadly-raid-drug-buy-not-adding-up-affidavit-alleges/285-54ca0bb4-ba03-4e9d-ab6e-7d40bab2b356
Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo is holding a 1:30 (central) p.m. news conference about the new developments. We will stream it live on KHOU.com, our mobile app and Facebook.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-15-19, 13:28
HPD undercover cop's story about deadly raid, drug buy not adding up, affidavit alleges
https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/hpd-undercover-cops-story-about-deadly-raid-drug-buy-not-adding-up-affidavit-alleges/285-54ca0bb4-ba03-4e9d-ab6e-7d40bab2b356
Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo is holding a 1:30 (central) p.m. news conference about the new developments. We will stream it live on KHOU.com, our mobile app and Facebook.
W...T...F...
Don’t the officers have to present some evidence such as the drugs, video or audio of the buy, affidavit or something to the judge to get a no-knock warrant?
This is amazing a single officer can initiate a no-knock invasion with zero evidence or oversight. His supervisor should be subject to the scrutiny as this d-bag who fabricated this assault.
Three well know case in GA where exactly this occurred and innocent people died, and a 1yo baby was critically burned.
I support the use of no-knock when serious Intel is done, risk assessment justifies it, blah blah.
But increasingly it seems a very low bar is used. Maybe it's the judges fault, but a common thread in many seems to be CIs, nuisance level drug bust, and little to no real Intel.
Adrenaline_6
02-15-19, 13:57
If this turns out to be accurate, there is some shady sh*t going on to say the least. Heads will need to roll for this one. Starting from the top. Maybe Art Acevedo can hang out with Scott Israel and they can swap stories.
Three well know case in GA where exactly this occurred and innocent people died, and a 1yo baby was critically burned.
I support the use of no-knock when serious Intel is done, risk assessment justifies it, blah blah.
But increasingly it seems a very low bar is used. Maybe it's the judges fault, but a common thread in many seems to be CIs, nuisance level drug bust, and little to no real Intel.
The judges rubber stamping these warrant requests don't give a damn. They just don't take it seriously so long as it isn't their address on the warrant. :(
From news conference: entry team not wearing body cams, but others that stayed outside were. WTF? Is that a common SOP?
From news conference: entry team not wearing body cams, but others that stayed outside were. WTF? Is that a common SOP?
It is when you don't want anyone to see what you did. :(
Averageman
02-15-19, 14:40
From news conference: entry team not wearing body cams, but others that stayed outside were. WTF? Is that a common SOP?
It is when you don't want anyone to see what you did. :(
This is right out of "Training Day.
"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9EVR7j9_fw
Pay back, she's a Bitch.
thopkins22
02-15-19, 15:39
From news conference: entry team not wearing body cams, but others that stayed outside were. WTF? Is that a common SOP?
The overwhelming majority of patrol officers wear body cameras...hence the officers outside having them. Some parts of the department don’t have them yet, and at least this particular entry team does not. They have claimed budgetary issues for this...which if true, means the priorities are all jacked up on who actually needs them.
I believe that it’s conscious negligence. They are amongst the last to get them...probably by design. It’s certainly not a defined policy to take your camera off as you’re getting jocked up.
I think they’re still stuck in the mindset of protecting police work that may be less than family friendly(I don’t mean corruption or anything like that.). But like dash cams, body cameras exonerate far more officers than they damn...particularly when there are good policies on what situations the footage can be reviewed from.
If I was an officer today without a body camera, I’d consider buying my own for those reasons.
Update:
https://www.12newsnow.com/article/news/crime/you-lie-you-die-hpd-undercover-cop-lied-about-drug-buy-that-led-to-deadly-raid-chief-acevedo-says/285-54ca0bb4-ba03-4e9d-ab6e-7d40bab2b356
Whiskey_Bravo
02-16-19, 08:05
https://abc13.com/5140341/
Seriously shady stuff. Lied on the warrant, all confidential informants say they never bought drugs from that couple or house.
Heads should roll and the one responsible for the false warrant should go to jail. Procedures for these types of raids have to change.
https://abc13.com/5140341/
Seriously shady stuff. Lied on the warrant, all confidential informants say they never bought drugs from that couple or house.
Heads should roll and the one responsible for the false warrant should go to jail. Procedures for these types of raids have to change.
From the looks of it, someone, or several someones. need to be in jail right now. That is where the home owners would be right now, amid cries for their executions, had they been successful in defending their home.
The citizen with a revolver shooting 5 officers still sounds fishy to me. Makes me wonder, if among the other lies, the officers shot each other in the bungled raid.
Whiskey_Bravo
02-16-19, 09:28
The citizen with a revolver shooting 5 officers still sounds fishy to me. Makes me wonder, if among the other lies, the officers shot each other in the bungled raid.
Agreed, just doesn’t seem to really add up.
The citizen with a revolver shooting 5 officers still sounds fishy to me. Makes me wonder, if among the other lies, the officers shot each other in the bungled raid.
I'm placing my bet now. The final report on this goat rope will have no resemblance whatsoever to the sob story they were telling on national TV for a week after the raid. I won't be even 1% surprised if it turns out evidence was planted and these yayhoos shot each other.
Chief Avocado and that flighty little union rep have some mea culpas to issue. Meanwhile two American citizens have been murdered in sanctum of their own home. Raids like this destroy the public confidence in law enforcement and make it that much harder on the good cops.
These raids for small scale one time UC drug buys need to be banned by law. If you don't have wired evidence and/or multiple documented buys by more than a single CI, then you shouldn't get a warrant, period. With everything else going on in our country these days, stuff like this just makes the water circle the drain even faster. :(
Averageman
02-16-19, 10:59
The citizen with a revolver shooting 5 officers still sounds fishy to me. Makes me wonder, if among the other lies, the officers shot each other in the bungled raid.
You know when you're shooting a .357 in to a stack of bodies piled in a door, I can see that happening.
Chief Avocado and that flighty little union rep have some mea culpas to issue. Meanwhile two American citizens have been murdered in sanctum of their own home. Raids like this destroy the public confidence in law enforcement and make it that much harder on the good cops.
I feel for the Officers who have to deal with this every day
You know when you're shooting a .357 in to a stack of bodies piled in a door, I can see that happening.
I feel for the Officers who have to deal with this every day
Exactly. The perp responsible for this crime is Officer Gerald Goines. He prepared the search warrant and has been with the police department for more than 30 years, according to investigators.
That means how knows how many times he's done this before and his luck just now ran out? I can hear the Houston area defense attorneys typing up appeal motions for every case he's been involved in as we type. This is a biblical shitstorm. At least he sucked one up in the process.
Chief Avocado and the DA need to file felony murder charges against him IMO. Of course Avocado is still slandering the victims as criminals in order to minimize the blowback. What a POS. :mad:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/chief-officer-lied-in-affidavit-before-deadly-houston-raid.amp
Acevedo is also very well documented as being staunchly anti-gun, don't hitch anything to his wagon because he will spin this as another reason citizens don't need guns. I hate Art Acevedo with a passion. They were criminals, but not the kind of criminals that needed a no-knock warrant.
If what is coming to light is accurate, there are cops who need to go to jail. If the CIs used in the warrant are not real, if only one questionable buy was made, if the drugs referenced in the warrant were pulled out of the center console of an officer's car, then it's time to build a case and call the prosecutor. That Training Day type of shit has no place in my career field.
I'm not a big fan of no-knock warrants. I think they should be reserved for extremely high risk situations determined by the threat matrix and the tactical teams, not a handful of plainclothes narcs... On it's face, these guys really dicked the goat. They do have their place, but I think they are used too much.
Acevedo is also very well documented as being staunchly anti-gun, don't hitch anything to his wagon because he will spin this as another reason citizens don't need guns. I hate Art Acevedo with a passion. They were criminals, but not the kind of criminals that needed a no-knock warrant.
If what is coming to light is accurate, there are cops who need to go to jail. If the CIs used in the warrant are not real, if only one questionable buy was made, if the drugs referenced in the warrant were pulled out of the center console of an officer's car, then it's time to build a case and call the prosecutor. That Training Day type of shit has no place in my career field.
I'm not a big fan of no-knock warrants. I think they should be reserved for extremely high risk situations determined by the threat matrix and the tactical teams, not a handful of plainclothes narcs... On it's face, these guys really dicked the goat. They do have their place, but I think they are used too much.
And we know the 2 dead were criminals why? Because the side that has engaged in numerous lies said so?
SeriousStudent
02-16-19, 17:45
I am not an Acevedo fan at all, based on the feedback from numerous Austin PD officers I have known who worked there during his tenure. I do not personally know any current Houston PD officers.
But I doubt he suddenly changed his beliefs when he drove that U-Haul east on 290.
BoringGuy45
02-16-19, 19:35
I am not an Acevedo fan at all, based on the feedback from numerous Austin PD officers I have known who worked there during his tenure. I do not personally know any current Houston PD officers.
But I doubt he suddenly changed his beliefs when he drove that U-Haul east on 290.
If I've learned anything from my short time in law enforcement, it's that most shitty police chiefs are shitty because they are narcissistic pricks who never listen to anyone, and who blame all their failures on their subordinates. As a result, they never learn from past failures, but because they know people, they keep getting chief jobs at different departments, and bring the same misery everywhere they go.
The number of big city chiefs who have a scrap of humanity can probably be counted on one hand.
Exactly. The perp responsible for this crime is Officer Gerald Goines. He prepared the search warrant and has been with the police department for more than 30 years, according to investigators.
That means how knows how many times he's done this before and his luck just now ran out? I can hear the Houston area defense attorneys typing up appeal motions for every case he's been involved in as we type. This is a biblical shitstorm. At least he sucked one up in the process.
Chief Avocado and the DA need to file felony murder charges against him IMO. Of course Avocado is still slandering the victims as criminals in order to minimize the blowback. What a POS. :mad:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/chief-officer-lied-in-affidavit-before-deadly-houston-raid.amp
Maybe his luck won't run out this time either.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-police-officer-in-drug-raid-had-previous-13621276.php?utm_source=article&utm_campaign=chron&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chron.com%2Fnews%2Fhouston-texas%2Farticle%2FHouston-police-shooting-affidavit-confidential-13620120.php
Whiskey_Bravo
02-17-19, 07:53
Maybe his luck won't run out this time either.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-police-officer-in-drug-raid-had-previous-13621276.php?utm_source=article&utm_campaign=chron&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chron.com%2Fnews%2Fhouston-texas%2Farticle%2FHouston-police-shooting-affidavit-confidential-13620120.php
Hot damn . Dude was involved in multiple shootings jver the years and somehow some of them are not in his personal file, interesting. Shady AF guy.
Hot damn . Dude was involved in multiple shootings jver the years and somehow some of them are not in his personal file, interesting. Shady AF guy.
Not just a guy, singular, is shady there.
Averageman
02-17-19, 08:19
Not just a guy, singular, is shady there.
You can't have a run like that and not get busted without some help from some friends.
I think this guy and this whole Department need some serious oversight and it needs to come from out of State.
Sure makes one wonder if the drugs were planted.
BoringGuy45
02-17-19, 12:12
I'm getting a Rampart vibe from this whole situation.
thopkins22
02-17-19, 12:53
Sure makes one wonder if the drugs were planted.
I believe that’s part of where the investigation is going now. But even then, it was a misdemeanor amount of pot. Which in Harris County does not send you to jail or result in a conviction.
Union rep early on: Gamaldi said. "We are sick and tired of having dirtbags trying to take our lives when all we're trying to do is protect this community and protect our families."
Also, apparently the officer in question was shot in the 90s by a homeowner while the officer was peeing on a tree after a drug buy. Citizen was not charged, imagine that.
Union rep early on: Gamaldi said. "We are sick and tired of having dirtbags trying to take our lives when all we're trying to do is protect this community and protect our families."
I have always despised this kind of whining. You are NOT entitled to go home at the end of your shift. If you cannot accept that, be a plumber.
I have always hated the breeder types who care soooo much about their lives and families. You are either all in or all out.
I've been grievously injured in line of duty before and I lived through it You'll be fine. ..
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-17-19, 13:21
I'll admit, as a Police Officer, when I first heard five officers were shot I was saddened and angered. I was happy to hear that the dirtbag who shot them was dead. I assumed that the officers were doing what I and my coworkers do every day, honest work, for okay pay, while trying to make a difference.
The more evidence that comes out, the more angry I am. Not at the system, not at people who hate cops, but at cops who make my job infinitely harder by being what we swore to defend against. I am angry that people lost their lives who likely should not have. I am angered by the thought that someone could lie on a warrant and put me in the same position as some of those cops were on that call, who had no idea of the details and lies. I am angered that myself or my loved ones could just have easily been on the receiving end of that lie in our own homes.
I assure you that 99% of all police officers do not view themselves above the law. I do not get a bonus for more arrests or tickets, but I do lose my job the moment I lie to make an extra arrest. It isn't worth it to most of us, for a million reasons.
The media does not always report accurately on things, trust me, I've been involved in plenty of news stories that had me infuriated by the lies and inaccuracies they report. BUT, if the truth of the matter is that this was a reenactment of Training Day, heads need to roll, cops need to be charged with murder, conspiracy, burglary, and leadership AT ALL levels needs to be removed and held responsible.
No matter the outcome, changes need to be made. Risk vs Reward. The risk in these types of operations is far greater than the reward. Warrants need to stop being requested and they need to stop being approved for situations like this, period. Raids like this need to stop. ALL cops need to be outfitted with BWC.
You might want to take a more discerning look at the system as a whole because (assuming the article I shared was correct) there was a series of events leading up to the events of that afternoon spread out over decades and involving lots of people through out the system. And it isn't some stretch to believe the article is factual, because the series of lower level crimes getting blown off and leading up to events like this is, unfortunately, not uncommon.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-17-19, 14:16
You might want to take a more discerning look at the system as a whole because (assuming the article I shared was correct) there was a series of events leading up to the events of that afternoon spread out over decades and involving lots of people through out the system. And it isn't some stretch to believe the article is factual, because the series of lower level crimes getting blown off and leading up to events like this is, unfortunately, not uncommon.
Like I said, I'll believe the facts when they are laid out with all the evidence. Until then, it's a very tragic and disturbing situation that warrants serious/unbiased investigation by an outside agency.
Averageman
02-17-19, 15:18
I have two close friends both former military, who have a lot more experience in and with Law Enforcement than I will ever have. They tell me this is just the system in Houston and it has been for a long time and it's more likely to continue than to be fixed.
I'm pretty sure the Texas Rangers will end up being called in to investigate, but I'm also sure Acevedo can't fix this stuff.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-17-19, 15:32
I have two close friends both former military, who have a lot more experience in and with Law Enforcement than I will ever have. They tell me this is just the system in Houston and it has been for a long time and it's more likely to continue than to be fixed.
I'm pretty sure the Texas Rangers will end up being called in to investigate, but I'm also sure Acevedo can't fix this stuff.
Acevedo has long been the root of many issues, and he stains agencies wherever he goes. Department culture comes directly from its leadership.
The Texas Rangers I'm sure will do a fantastic job on this one if they are selected to investigate it.
SeriousStudent
02-17-19, 15:48
I do hope the Rangers investigate as well. If asked, I'm sure they will do a very thorough and impartial job.
I'll admit, as a Police Officer, when I first heard five officers were shot I was saddened and angered. I was happy to hear that the dirtbag who shot them was dead. I assumed that the officers were doing what I and my coworkers do every day, honest work, for okay pay, while trying to make a difference.
The more evidence that comes out, the more angry I am. Not at the system, not at people who hate cops, but at cops who make my job infinitely harder by being what we swore to defend against. I am angry that people lost their lives who likely should not have. I am angered by the thought that someone could lie on a warrant and put me in the same position as some of those cops were on that call, who had no idea of the details and lies. I am angered that myself or my loved ones could just have easily been on the receiving end of that lie in our own homes.
I assure you that 99% of all police officers do not view themselves above the law. I do not get a bonus for more arrests or tickets, but I do lose my job the moment I lie to make an extra arrest. It isn't worth it to most of us, for a million reasons.
The media does not always report accurately on things, trust me, I've been involved in plenty of news stories that had me infuriated by the lies and inaccuracies they report. BUT, if the truth of the matter is that this was a reenactment of Training Day, heads need to roll, cops need to be charged with murder, conspiracy, burglary, and leadership AT ALL levels needs to be removed and held responsible.
No matter the outcome, changes need to be made. Risk vs Reward. The risk in these types of operations is far greater than the reward. Warrants need to stop being requested and they need to stop being approved for situations like this, period. Raids like this need to stop. ALL cops need to be outfitted with BWC.
I assumed/felt same when I posed the OP. Now, it's just bad mojo all around.
I assumed/felt same when I posed the OP.I think we all did. Taking a bunch of scumbags off the street, even feet first, is always a good thing.
titsonritz
02-17-19, 19:12
In some states when someone is killed in the commission of a felony the perpetrator(s) can be changed with homicide, does Texas have such laws? And are dirty cops immune to them if they do?
titsonritz
02-17-19, 19:13
I think we all did. Taking a bunch of scumbags off the street, even feet first, is always a good thing.
I know I did, but that didn't last long past the phishy smell.
I'm glad he's alive to face the music instead of dying a "hero".
SeriousStudent
02-17-19, 23:21
In some states when someone is killed in the commission of a felony the perpetrator(s) can be changed with homicide, does Texas have such laws? And are dirty cops immune to them if they do?
Texas has such a law, and has executed people for the same.
I have two close friends both former military, who have a lot more experience in and with Law Enforcement than I will ever have. They tell me this is just the system in Houston and it has been for a long time and it's more likely to continue than to be fixed.
I'm pretty sure the Texas Rangers will end up being called in to investigate, but I'm also sure Acevedo can't fix this stuff.
I’d go so far as to say the FBI’s OCR division should come in and take over the investigation, simply because they have more power. Sadly, I’m not even sure the FBI has the integrity to do it justice. That fish is rotting from the head right now too. :(
Perhaps the Ranger’s legendary reputation is still intact and they’re the only ones who can do it justice. Whatever the case, I hope true justice is served in the end.
Averageman
02-18-19, 14:10
Perhaps the Ranger’s legendary reputation is still intact and they’re the only ones who can do it justice. Whatever the case, I hope true justice is served in the end.
I have much more confidence in the Texas Rangers that the FBI at this point.
I have much more confidence in the Texas Rangers that the FBI at this point.
QFT. By the time the FBI was finished with the investigation the determination would have been that President Trump and the Russians did it.
SeriousStudent
02-18-19, 17:15
I have much more confidence in the Texas Rangers that the FBI at this point.
I am very sad to say this is the case for me as well. I am absolutely certain that there are thousands and thousands of dedicated Special Agents in the FBI that I would trust completely. Men and women who have dedicated their lives to our country and Constitution. But very sadly, there are a very few folks at the top who truly give me pause.
The Rangers have a long history of providing assistance and supervision with local and state investigations here in Texas. Twice during their history, they had a crooked Governor who polluted their ranks with corrupt flunkies - see the Ferguson administrations for proof. As a result, we had Rangers who either resigned en masse, or launched cases against their own leadership. Frankly, it was a dark chapter in our state's history.
Our nation is fortunate to have the FBI, and we are fortunate here in Texas to have the Rangers. I just wish inquiries such as this were never necessary. :(
HPD to end no knocks, and Chief resists outside investigation
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-police-to-end-use-of-no-knock-warrants-13626158.php
https://www.click2houston.com/news/-we-do-want-murder-charges-community-outrage-in-wake-of-deadly-hpd-raid-turned-shootout
https://www.click2houston.com/news/hes-innocent-of-any-crime-attorney-for-officer-at-center-of-investigation-speaks-out
HPD to end no knocks, and Chief resists outside investigation
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-police-to-end-use-of-no-knock-warrants-13626158.php
https://www.click2houston.com/news/-we-do-want-murder-charges-community-outrage-in-wake-of-deadly-hpd-raid-turned-shootout
https://www.click2houston.com/news/hes-innocent-of-any-crime-attorney-for-officer-at-center-of-investigation-speaks-out
Chief Avocado shouldn't have any say in the matter. :mad:
Averageman
02-19-19, 10:29
Chief Avocado shouldn't have any say in the matter. :mad:
Still, Acevedo said he wouldn't agree to let the Texas Ranger or the FBI take over the investigation.
"I feel very strongly that a police department that is not capable of investigating itself and finding malfeasance and criminal misconduct," he said, "we should just shut down -- and that's just not the case here."
Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg also tried to assure the crowd that her office would investigate and that bad actors would not be allowed off the hook, but pushed back against "mob justice."
After those words of wisdom from the Chief and District Attorney, why would anyone even think they can investigate themselves. Honestly it's time for the State Attorney General to step up on this.
Still, Acevedo said he wouldn't agree to let the Texas Ranger or the FBI take over the investigation.
"I feel very strongly that a police department that is not capable of investigating itself and finding malfeasance and criminal misconduct," he said, "we should just shut down -- and that's just not the case here."
Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg also tried to assure the crowd that her office would investigate and that bad actors would not be allowed off the hook, but pushed back against "mob justice."
After those words of wisdom from the Chief and District Attorney, why would anyone even think they can investigate themselves. Honestly it's time for the State Attorney General to step up on this.
As a senior federal investigator in my AOR sometimes says when confronting recalcitrant subjects: "Your concurrence is not required, but your compliance is."
You can delegate everything but responsibility
You can delegate everything but responsibility
The Democrat party exists, therefore your point is invalid. :(
Still, Acevedo said he wouldn't agree to let the Texas Ranger or the FBI take over the investigation.
"I feel very strongly that a police department that is not capable of investigating itself and finding malfeasance and criminal misconduct," he said, "we should just shut down -- and that's just not the case here."
Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg also tried to assure the crowd that her office would investigate and that bad actors would not be allowed off the hook, but pushed back against "mob justice."
After those words of wisdom from the Chief and District Attorney, why would anyone even think they can investigate themselves. Honestly it's time for the State Attorney General to step up on this.
Sounds like if that was true, Goines would have been gone long ago.
Has anyone seen a photo of Goines or the other officers? That seems kind of odd anyway and with the mentions about Goines being such a great power lifter seems even more suspicious.
thopkins22
02-19-19, 12:46
Sounds like if that was true, Goines would have been gone long ago.
Has anyone seen a photo of Goines or the other officers? That seems kind of odd anyway and with the mentions about Goines being such a great power lifter seems even more suspicious.
He works(worked) undercover and or in plain clothes for much of his career. If by whatever stroke of crazy twists and turns he turn out to be in the right on all of this, it would impact his ability to do that.
I don’t think it’s right of the city to keep it private, if it was a private citizen who wasn’t found guilty yet we’d be plastering his face everywhere as being evil.
But you can see him here(sort of.) He’s the black man being out in the ambulance. This is from a prior gunfight that turned out to be road rage.
https://abc13.com/hpd-officer-at-center-of-deadly-drug-raid-shot-twice-before/5141523/
Averageman
02-19-19, 12:48
Sounds like if that was true, Goines would have been gone long ago.
Has anyone seen a photo of Goines or the other officers? That seems kind of odd anyway and with the mentions about Goines being such a great power lifter seems even more suspicious.
The guys been undercover narcotics for some years, so I doubt if they are going to allow the release a picture. Plus a picture on top of the current charges may fling more poo at the HPD as witnesses might really begin to step up with more charges.
This guy's worst nightmare is doing a life sentence in a Texas Prison, General Population isn't going to be a cakewalk, Power Lifter or not.
It will be ironic if this is what is the Lynch Pin that puts Acevedo in his place. He has no ability to not get in front of the camera or not speak out when it really might be his benefit to do so.
Still, Acevedo said he wouldn't agree to let the Texas Ranger or the FBI take over the investigation.
"I feel very strongly that a police department that is not capable of investigating itself and finding malfeasance and criminal misconduct," he said, "we should just shut down -- and that's just not the case here."
Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg also tried to assure the crowd that her office would investigate and that bad actors would not be allowed off the hook, but pushed back against "mob justice."
After those words of wisdom from the Chief and District Attorney, why would anyone even think they can investigate themselves. Honestly it's time for the State Attorney General to step up on this.
Apparently he isn't smart enough to consider public perception. It isn't about whether they are capable of investigation themselves, it's about eliminating any appearance of impropriety. In this case, I think he is going to try to control the narrative.
This guy's worst nightmare is doing a life sentence in a Texas Prison, General Population isn't going to be a cakewalk, Power Lifter or not.
In my experience, Kansas DOC moves police officers to out of state prisons. I know two former officers for whom this is the case.
In my experience, Kansas DOC moves police officers to out of state prisons. I know two former officers for whom this is the case.
Yeah the whole eaten alive in gen pop is a fantasy.
Coal Dragger
02-19-19, 13:45
These officers should never go to prison for this if they are found guilty of murder. They should be immediately hung from the neck until dead, in public.
I would hope that the criminal and civil liability Houston will face teaches other departments a lesson but it probably won’t. LEO agencies will continue doing dumb shit that costs lives fighting a “war” of prohibition that doesn’t work and never will.
sundance435
02-20-19, 15:37
Yeah the whole eaten alive in gen pop is a fantasy.
Very subjective, but it's more likely than with your average prisoner. Plus, other inmates will know it before many of the corrections officers.
Averageman
02-21-19, 17:51
https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/21/fraudulent-houston-drug-warrant-prompts
The fraudulent search warrant that authorized last month's deadly Houston drug raid has prompted an FBI investigation and a review of more than 1,400 cases involving the narcotics officer who obtained the warrant.
"The FBI Houston Field Office has opened an independent civil rights investigation into allegations that a search warrant obtained by Houston police officers was based on false, fabricated information," the FBI announced in a press release yesterday. "The execution of that search warrant at 7815 Harding Street, Houston, TX, on January 28, 2019, resulted in the deaths of Rhogena Nicholas and Dennis Tuttle as well as serious injuries to several Houston police officers."
Goines "lied in an affidavit," Police Chief Art Acevedo said last Friday, and "more than likely...will be charged with a serious crime." Under Texas law, lying in a search warrant affidavit is aggravated perjury, a third-degree felony punishable by two to 20 years in prison. Under federal law, willfully depriving someone of his constitutional rights "under color of any law" is punishable by a prison term up to life or by execution "if death results."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRavokXZ054
Averageman
02-21-19, 18:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcahgKXNmQg
Looks like HPD will be severely limiting no-knocks...even more interesting how Chief still doesn't believe the Rangers and FBI should be involved in the investigation. One would think, optics wise, that since public opinion is NOT on their side, getting an impartial 3rd-party to handle the investigation would be a better strategy.
https://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/482986006-Chief-Houston-PD-to-end-use-of-no-knock-warrants/?fbclid=IwAR0p_oeqEXHMyWR_E8enrR5ohYd2BObMizsPn8G28LDFzQtNC7eayQFZT-Y
Averageman
02-21-19, 18:16
Looks like HPD will be severely limiting no-knocks...even more interesting how Chief still doesn't believe the Rangers and FBI should be involved in the investigation. One would think, optics wise, that since public opinion is NOT on their side, getting an impartial 3rd-party to handle the investigation would be a better strategy.
https://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/482986006-Chief-Houston-PD-to-end-use-of-no-knock-warrants/?fbclid=IwAR0p_oeqEXHMyWR_E8enrR5ohYd2BObMizsPn8G28LDFzQtNC7eayQFZT-Y
Acevedo has put himself out there and said some really odd things concerning this case.
Acevedo has put himself out there and said some really odd things concerning this case.
I think he is worried about being implicated in mass corruption if an outside agency does an impartial and thorough investigation.
FBI reviewing 1,400+ cases of his. Going to be a field day for some lucky attorney to appeal any case the he requested a warrant and/or he relied on a CI.
Acevedo resisting outside inquiry so strongly makes it look like he was involved in some manner. Why were those people targeted? Purely bad luck of the phone book draw? Or any relationship or interaction with Acevedo or Goines?
Averageman
02-21-19, 19:10
The more Acevedo says the more he appears to have some sort of Agenda.
I'm curious how this guy kept his job for thirty years, he's been involved in a lot of rather shady stuff.
Looks like HPD will be severely limiting no-knocks...even more interesting how Chief still doesn't believe the Rangers and FBI should be involved in the investigation. One would think, optics wise, that since public opinion is NOT on their side, getting an impartial 3rd-party to handle the investigation would be a better strategy.
https://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/482986006-Chief-Houston-PD-to-end-use-of-no-knock-warrants/?fbclid=IwAR0p_oeqEXHMyWR_E8enrR5ohYd2BObMizsPn8G28LDFzQtNC7eayQFZT-Y
The no knocks came up here:
https://forum.officer.com/forum/public-forums/general-law-enforcement-topics/6746539-houston-pd-scraps-“no-knock-warrants”
The no knocks came up here:
https://forum.officer.com/forum/public-forums/general-law-enforcement-topics/6746539-houston-pd-scraps-“no-knock-warrants”
I believe Chief A backtracked that and said they would only be done with his approval.
I believe Chief A backtracked that and said they would only be done with his approval.
That was in the article in the first post in that thread and what they did not like.
FBI reviewing 1,400+ cases of his. Going to be a field day for some lucky attorney to appeal any case the he requested a warrant and/or he relied on a CI.
Acevedo resisting outside inquiry so strongly makes it look like he was involved in some manner. Why were those people targeted? Purely bad luck of the phone book draw? Or any relationship or interaction with Acevedo or Goines?
It’s the bureacrat’s version of what they don’t know not hurting them. Literally, “What the don’t know can’t hurt me.” :(
thopkins22
02-22-19, 00:26
The no knocks came up here:
https://forum.officer.com/forum/public-forums/general-law-enforcement-topics/6746539-houston-pd-scraps-“no-knock-warrants”
I disregard almost everything those officers had to say on the subject.
Who gives even a little bit of a shit if some evidence gets flushed? If you had enough for an arrest warrant, you had enough to go to trial with.
No knock warrants are incredibly dangerous for police officers, and more dangerous for innocent civilians. Paul Howe who is a guy that very definitely backs the badge has written about this.
Bad guys don’t really fight back effectively, they just shit themselves. So you get teams of narcotics officers who get to wear blue jeans and cargo shorts with a plate carrier who carry themselves with the mentality that they are gun slingers but when it goes down five get hospitalized by one revolver and a surprised senior citizen.
These warrants seem to serve the purpose of stoking the egos of narcotics officers who think they’re on the pointy edge(busting houses with maybe six figures worth of dope max) and for creating photo ops with bags of powder.
The officers I know that are grounded in reality don’t buy the idea that changing how this stuff is done would really effect the conviction rate meaningfully, but might do a lot to keep officers AND innocent/misdemeanor level citizens alive.
thopkins22
02-22-19, 00:32
FBI reviewing 1,400+ cases of his. Going to be a field day for some lucky attorney to appeal any case the he requested a warrant and/or he relied on a CI.
It won’t just be CI cases. The throw down heroine in his vehicle is going to be a get out of jail free card for a lot of dudes.
There’s nothing directly proving that he has done that...but I think we can all agree that it’s exactly what it was there for.
It’s not the majority of the force, but it really is no wonder that there is no trust for law enforcement in the communities that are actively policed as opposed to just getting reactionary policing like most of the neighborhoods we live in.
I disregard almost everything those officers had to say on the subject.
Who gives even a little bit of a shit if some evidence gets flushed? If you had enough for an arrest warrant, you had enough to go to trial with.
No knock warrants are incredibly dangerous for police officers, and more dangerous for innocent civilians. Paul Howe who is a guy that very definitely backs the badge has written about this.
Bad guys don’t really fight back effectively, they just shit themselves. So you get teams of narcotics officers who get to wear blue jeans and cargo shorts with a plate carrier who carry themselves with the mentality that they are gun slingers but when it goes down five get hospitalized by one revolver and a surprised senior citizen.
These warrants seem to serve the purpose of stoking the egos of narcotics officers who think they’re on the pointy edge(busting houses with maybe six figures worth of dope max) and for creating photo ops with bags of powder.
The officers I know that are grounded in reality don’t buy the idea that changing how this stuff is done would really effect the conviction rate meaningfully, but might do a lot to keep officers AND innocent/misdemeanor level citizens alive.
It could be disregarded if incidents like Houston didn't keep popping up. As is, it is rather insightful.
Averageman
02-22-19, 10:29
All this controversy for a guy who had thirty years in and was in multiple shoot outs and many shady cases?
Sometimes the people that work for you, no matter how long they have worked there, need to be weighed on the scales of "Is this guy worth it?"
Considering his track record, was it a possibility or an eventuality that something like this was going to happen? I would guess at some point regardless of how high speed you are, it only takes one subordinate like this to bring the whole house down around you.
You simply cannot defend "No Knock" warrants if you've got guys like this working for you, but no one wants to call them out.
thopkins22
02-22-19, 11:22
It could be disregarded if incidents like Houston didn't keep popping up. As is, it is rather insightful.
I don’t mean the article but the comments surrounding it defending no knocks on the premise that they’ll lose a few ounces of drugs to a toilet.
But wait, there's more....
https://abc13.com/72-year-old-with-cancer-was-unaware-hpd-raided-his-home/5152114/
Averageman
02-22-19, 20:15
Perhaps Goines needs to have a drug test.
I hear hair samples are hard to beat
100+ bogus warrant request, stealing evidence, or a mixture?
https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/investigations/khou-11-investigates-issues-with-embattled-houston-police-officers-past-no-knock-warrants/285-13b94210-449c-4406-b843-f24a45c814ce
None of this is suprising to me. Houston is full of Democrats and they have a California Democrat as their chief of police. This is the environment they created.
Averageman
02-23-19, 12:40
https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/khou-11-investigates-issues-with-embattled-houston-police-officers-past-no-knock-warrants/285-13b94210-449c-4406-b843-f24a45c814ce
Former HPD officer and DEA agent Jim Dozier also questioned the search warrants filed by Officer Gerald Goines. He is a Sam Houston State University professor, former criminal prosecutor, and Executive Director of the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement.
“I find it highly suspect,” Dr. Dozier said. “No firearms were ever listed in the subsequent inventories returned to the court.”
Acevedo relieved Goines of duty while an internal and criminal investigation continues. Harris County District Attorney pledged to review all of the officer’s past cases throughout his 34-year HPD career.
Criminal defense attorney Nicole Deborde represents Gerald Goines, and downplayed the discrepancies in his past cases.
“None of this appears unusual, concerning or out of the ordinary,” she said.
Yeah Houston deserves Defense Attorney Nicole Deborde and Chief Acevedo alright.
I wonder if they have served a warrant on Goines house yet, or if they were waiting for someone to go over and destroy/move the evidence?
https://www.khou.com/article/news/investigations/khou-11-investigates-issues-with-embattled-houston-police-officers-past-no-knock-warrants/285-13b94210-449c-4406-b843-f24a45c814ce
Former HPD officer and DEA agent Jim Dozier also questioned the search warrants filed by Officer Gerald Goines. He is a Sam Houston State University professor, former criminal prosecutor, and Executive Director of the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement.
“I find it highly suspect,” Dr. Dozier said. “No firearms were ever listed in the subsequent inventories returned to the court.”
I'll try to find the story, pretty sure it was in relationship to a Denver PD incident a couple years ago, but IIRC, nationwide less than 3% of no knock warrants had opposition against officers or firearms in the return.
MountainRaven
02-26-19, 18:53
NPR reported this evening that Goines's CI in this case has disappeared.
Coal Dragger
02-26-19, 19:19
What a surprise.
Averageman
02-27-19, 04:40
Did someone deliver a fish wrapped in newspaper to the Corleone's yet?
titsonritz
02-27-19, 11:04
Leave the gun take the cannoli.
Police 101: Nobody is more guilty or full of shit than a paid snitch
titsonritz
08-26-19, 16:03
I thought this dude sounded dirty, it's looking like his foul deeds have finally caught up with him, too bad two people had to die before it happened...
Today Harris County, Texas, District Attorney Kim Ogg announced that Gerald Goines, the narcotics officer who instigated the disastrous January 28 drug raid that killed a middle-aged couple, has been charged with two counts of felony murder. The raid, which discovered no evidence of drug dealing, was based on an affidavit by Goines that cited a "controlled buy" of heroin that apparently never happened.
After initially defending the no-knock raid at 7815 Harding Street and describing Goines as a hero, Police Chief Art Acevedo revealed that investigators had been unable to identify the confidential informant who supposedly had bought heroin from Dennis Tuttle, a 59-year-old disabled Navy veteran who was killed by police along with his 58-year-old wife, Rhogena Nicholas. The investigators concluded that Goines, who retired in March after 34 years with the Houston Police Department (HPD), had lied in his search warrant affidavit.
https://reason.com/2019/08/23/houston-narcotics-cop-who-instigated-a-deadly-drug-raid-is-charged-with-murder/
Coal Dragger
08-26-19, 16:07
Hopefully they charge the other officers too. Just like any other accomplices would be.
The article states two other officers are being charged for the evidence “tampering” and one of them for murder. And many more charges and subjects being investigated for that event, what lead up to it and allegations of Goines stealing property.
Perhaps some long over due justice for other hapless victims of this rogue cop:
“Ogg's office also is reviewing "more than 14,000 previously filed criminal cases" involving Squad 15, including some 2,200 cases that were handled by Goines and Bryant. Dozens of pending cases already have been dismissed.”
Coal Dragger
08-26-19, 20:20
Unfortunately even though it sounds like this guy is a real bad actor, chances are high that a lot of dirt bags are going to go free because this guy and his colleagues couldn’t follow the law. So not only did they kill some innocent people (who valiantly fought back and would have been well within their rights to kill all of those supposed cops), but will let a lot of potentially dangerous people who are criminals free to go do what they do.
So not only did they kill some innocent people (who valiantly fought back and would have been well within their rights to kill all of those supposed cops), but will let a lot of potentially dangerous people who are criminals free to go do what they do.
That is what guys who go off the reservation don't often think about - the risk they expose other officers to. There were probably some officers who thought the raid was legit making the entry. They were put at risk from the homeowners whom, it appears, were legitimately defending their home. Additionally, several may be saddled with the burden of playing a part in killing those homeowners.
Guess what? There is a lot going on right now about NSW units going somewhat rogue because of 1) believing their press releases; 2) inadequate/ineffective supervision. Not surprising to me the same issues surface in some narcotics, vice, and SWAT units.
That is what guys who go off the reservation don't often think about - the risk they expose other officers to. There were probably some officers who thought the raid was legit making the entry. They were put at risk from the homeowners whom, it appears, were legitimately defending their home. Additionally, several may be saddled with the burden of playing a part in killing those homeowners.
Guess what? There is a lot going on right now about NSW units going somewhat rogue because of 1) believing their press releases; 2) inadequate/ineffective supervision. Not surprising to me the same issues surface in some narcotics, vice, and SWAT units.
Was this guy ever on that reservation though?
Was this guy ever on that reservation though?
Hard to tell. I think many agencies leave guys in those positions too long.
Hard to tell. I think many agencies leave guys in those positions too long.
Well, you see Willard, in this war, things get confused out there: power, ideals, the old morality, practical military necessity. But out there with these natives, it must be a temptation to be god, because there's a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil, and good does not always triumph.*
Hard to tell. I think many agencies leave guys in those positions too long.
Sounds like a couple of decades too long. One has to wonder about the validity of the 1997 shooting and rather interesting a Texas grand jury in 1992 wouldn't indict a guy for shooting Goines in the face.
He wasn't operating in a vacuum so it seems likely other officers knew exactly what they were playing with.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-police-officer-in-drug-raid-had-previous-13621276.php?utm_source=article&utm_campaign=chron&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chron.com%2Fnews%2Fhouston-texas%2Farticle%2FHouston-police-shooting-affidavit-confidential-13620120.php
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-27-19, 06:51
So why go breach-boom-bang on a house you know is dry? Absolutely not defending in anyway, just trying to understand what is the motivation for a false raid. Rats giving bad info I understand. Bad cop just trying to keep his numbers up?
Sounds like a movie.
So why go breach-boom-bang on a house you know is dry? Absolutely not defending in anyway, just trying to understand what is the motivation for a false raid. Rats giving bad info I understand. Bad cop just trying to keep his numbers up?
Sounds like a movie.
Based on the details of some of his other incidents it could be possible they bruised his ego driving or in some other way.
Also, I wonder if there was a real deal good apple in all this that didn't play along (as seemed to be the norm in his other incidents) or if it was one of the other raiders that got shot and finally decided it wasn't fun any more.
Well, you see Willard, in this war, things get confused out there: power, ideals, the old morality, practical military necessity. But out there with these natives, it must be a temptation to be god, because there's a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil, and good does not always triumph.*
...Sometimes, the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one. Walter Kurtz has reached his, and very obviously, he has gone insane.
QFT. The fact it is dialogue from a movie doesn't lessen it's truthfulness.
IMO, Nietzsche said it more succintly:
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
Irons left in the fire too long lose their temper.
SomeOtherGuy
11-26-19, 09:08
This tragedy just got more interesting:
https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2019/11/fbi-arrests-houston-officers-in-fall.html
The Federal investigation into the no-knock raid on 7815 Harding Street in Houston Texas, on January 28th, 2019, where the married couple, Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas were killed in their home, has resulted in indictments and arrests for three people. Those three are former officers Gerald M. Goines, 55, Seven M. Bryant, 46, and neighbor Patricia Ann Garcia, 53.
It sounds like the neighbor called in blatantly false reports to 911. It's unclear if she was in a conspiracy with the charged officers or if her crimes are unrelated to what the officers are charged with. Far more detail at the link, not copying it all here in accordance with m4c policy.
This tragedy just got more interesting:
https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2019/11/fbi-arrests-houston-officers-in-fall.html
It sounds like the neighbor called in blatantly false reports to 911. It's unclear if she was in a conspiracy with the charged officers or if her crimes are unrelated to what the officers are charged with. Far more detail at the link, not copying it all here in accordance with m4c policy.
Good to see this moving in the right direction.
This tragedy just got more interesting:
https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2019/11/fbi-arrests-houston-officers-in-fall.html
It sounds like the neighbor called in blatantly false reports to 911. It's unclear if she was in a conspiracy with the charged officers or if her crimes are unrelated to what the officers are charged with. Far more detail at the link, not copying it all here in accordance with m4c policy.
How many years back did Goines using armed druggies for raid justification with 0 firearms recovered after raids go?
titsonritz
03-06-21, 22:43
https://www.whas11.com/article/news/crime/6-more-hpd-officers-charged-in-connection-with-harding-street-raid/285-d44400f5-fd78-4393-8180-8a2136a1ad47
SomeOtherGuy
03-07-21, 16:24
https://www.whas11.com/article/news/crime/6-more-hpd-officers-charged-in-connection-with-harding-street-raid/285-d44400f5-fd78-4393-8180-8a2136a1ad47
Glad to see this wasn't simply swept under the rug and forgotten. It sure would be nice if I could assume that all 50 states and the Feds would actually continue this sort of investigation and prosecute those who appear guilty.
Oh yeah, holy necro-thread Batman. But totally on topic.
Glad to see this wasn't simply swept under the rug and forgotten. It sure would be nice if I could assume that all 50 states and the Feds would actually continue this sort of investigation and prosecute those who appear guilty.
Oh yeah, holy necro-thread Batman. But totally on topic.
It’s almost like it is intentional that t(see actions happen to undermine local authority for LEOs. Keep hearing the drumbeat for defunding the police, to be replaced with what? National PD? Will they wear brown shirts, live up t9 the quality and excellence to the atf or fbi? Will the local sheriffs Stanford up t9 them? Or for them, for that sweet retirement plan?
If the plan was ever to divide and conquer,especially along racial fracture lines, it was a masterful stroke.
Update on the criminal gang.
https://youtu.be/kOBMf3-t4kw
Gallegos murder charge dropped. Supposed to go before another grand jury.
https://www.kltv.com/2021/08/18/cops-murder-charge-dropped-over-concern-about-ex-prosecutor/
And magically, Goines is free and clear.
https://www.fox26houston.com/news/harding-street-raid-gerald-goines-felony-murder-indictment.amp
And magically, Goines is free and clear.
https://www.fox26houston.com/news/harding-street-raid-gerald-goines-felony-murder-indictment.ampThere's a reason it's been five years and still no trial.
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Averageman
03-27-24, 21:25
The further East you go of I-35 the sketchier stuff starts to get from Tyler to Houston, that whole East side of Texas is No Joke.
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