Competing ideas about recoil

[parishioner]

Since there are now so many variations of pistol models in terms of size, it seems there are two schools of thought.

For example:

G19
Shorter slide, lower slide mass, faster reciprocating slide translates to faster tracking = less recoil/easier to shoot

G17
Longer slide, more slide mass, more weight overall and up front to keep muzzle down = less recoil/easier to shoot



So which one is it?

Is it all just purely objective or does physics dictate a winner?

[Bret]

My experience shooting pistols of all shapes, sizes and weights has taught me that, all else being equal, bigger and heavier guns have less felt recoil than smaller and lighter guns.

[wanderson]

I’ve owned a gen 3 g34 long slide and a gen 4 g19

The g34 felt like it was faster on follow up shots (less muzzle rise) although the difference was small.

Now I’ve heard some claim short slides rise less but think of POI. When the tip of a g34 barrel rises an inch, POI won’t rise as much as when a g19 rises an inch.

[MegademiC]

Since there are now so many variations of pistol models in terms of size, it seems there are two schools of thought.

For example:

G19
Shorter slide, lower slide mass, faster reciprocating slide translates to faster tracking = less recoil/easier to shoot

G17
Longer slide, more slide mass, more weight overall and up front to keep muzzle down = less recoil/easier to shoot



So which one is it?

Is it all just purely objective or does physics dictate a winner?

Same recoil different feel. G17 vs g19 feel about the same but the difference for me is sight tracking.
The 19 cycles faster and is “snappier” which means sights settle back target quicker if you manage recoil well.
The 17 the sights move up less, but the cycle is longer so it changes timing/how you manage the recoil. I prefer the 19, but havent shot the 17 on a timer- doubt it would change scores, especially with a little practice first.

Edit: heavy springs reduce felt recoil as well, but cause excess muzzle dip. I cant stand guns with heavy slides. HK and sigs both feel like a brick flopping around, i can feel the slide hit back and forth. The 19 feels like there is no slide, one impulse into the hand sight jumps up and back, waiting for the next shot.

Its all preference though. At the end if the day, learning hiw to run what you have is where its at- the gun is t going to make much of a difference. IME if you love the gun, youll shoot it often.

[17K]

When I get away from Glock I shoot the longer slower slides better/faster.

I can't shoot a full-size Glock frame near as well as a Compact.

On a timer a 5" 1911 will outrun a 4" for me, even though I feel like I'm going faster with the 4".

[YVK]

Shorter slide, lower slide mass, faster reciprocating slide translates to faster tracking = less recoil/easier to shoot




Faster tracking is faster tracking, less recoil is less recoil, no equal sign between them.

[Uni-Vibe]

Weight out front makes a big difference. My full size 1911s don't kick nearly as much as my three inch compact 1911 former carry pistol.

My 686 and 629 are six and 6.5 inch with full underlug.

[halfmoonclip]

With a 1911 vs a Commander, I can almost watch the slide run in the 5", with my same softball load. The full sized gun is more pleasant to shoot; I like the feel of the Commander better.
Maybe we're overthinking this? But I only shoot for my own entertainment, not to compete.
Moon

[shadowrider]

When I get away from Glock I shoot the longer slower slides better/faster.

I can't shoot a full-size Glock frame near as well as a Compact.

On a timer a 5" 1911 will outrun a 4" for me, even though I feel like I'm going faster with the 4".

Yep. In USPSA it seems that all the M and GM shooters in Production don't like a 147 grain load which is what almost everyone below A class runs because the perception is less recoil with the heavier bullet. The guys who really go-fast say they feel like they are waiting on the slide. I'm not that go-fast but my perception is that my old loads (147 grain) are "sluggish" compared to 124s or especially 115s. I seriously doubt that anyone regardless of skill level is in reality waiting on the slide, but that feeling is very real.

[YVK]

Yup, the slide cycle has been measured at 0.06. I get a kick out of people saying they are waiting on the slide. Same thing when people say they reset trigger in recoil. Perceptions are really strange things.


Weight out front makes a big difference. My full size 1911s don't kick nearly as much as my three inch compact 1911 former carry pistol.

Your full size also has much larger grip that allows for a better control and more pleasant recoil perception.

[MegademiC]

[/U][/B]
Yep. In USPSA it seems that all the M and GM shooters in Production don't like a 147 grain load which is what almost everyone below A class runs because the perception is less recoil with the heavier bullet. The guys who really go-fast say they feel like they are waiting on the slide. I'm not that go-fast but my perception is that my old loads (147 grain) are "sluggish" compared to 124s or especially 115s. I seriously doubt that anyone regardless of skill level is in reality waiting on the slide, but that feeling is very real.

This goes with what I was describing above. Again, the impuls feels slower. 147gr are a longer push, and keeping the gun flat causes muzzle dip. Faster rounds kick up a little more but come back at poa better- for me.

Again, not a huge difference. Talking top of recoil bringing sights a couple inches higher at 10 yds. Muzzle dip is a couple inches low at 10yds. I can track a dot better with 115 grain due to the dot being still longer between shots(split second vs constant movement).

As yvk said, no one is waiting for the slide, but it feels like it because the recoil impulse is drawn out.

Edit- i think its important to add this discussion is applicable to competition, but Id imagine it ends there. A gun with light springs, lightened slide is going to recoil better, but Id never carry one. (Dont even own one). It comes down to skill. I outshoot people with much better guns than I use, and I get outshot by people with “worse” guns then I have. Hardware might make a .5sec difference (likely less) for a course of fire.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Shoot a 19 and then a 34. That 34 will produce markedly less recoil. I own or have owned a few of both, and they both have their merits.

[halfmoonclip]

When we do our handgun class, newbies often aren't aware that the slide runs at all, even tho' they've been shown how it works.
Weight is a big part of the puzzle; I had a .45 Defender that was nice to carry but not much fun to shoot a lot. An all steel Officers is far more pleasant.
Not saying it is an issue in shooting speeds, but some slides move much more slowly; the Gummint model and even a Sig P320.
Moon

[17K]

Shoot a 19 and then a 34. That 34 will produce markedly less recoil. I own or have owned a few of both, and they both have their merits.

The 19X/45 threads are entertaining. You can tell who shoots with their war face on and their eyes closed!

[YVK]

Shoot a 19 and then a 34. That 34 will produce markedly less recoil. I own or have owned a few of both, and they both have their merits.

Again, like in other post about full sized and compact 1911s, there is a grip size difference between 19 and 34. Shoot 19x/G45 and then 34 and see if recoil feels markedly different. I put 8000 rounds through a 19x in six months or so and recoil doesn't come into consideration when shooting this gun - much like the 34.

[ViniVidivici]

My experience shooting pistols of all shapes, sizes and weights has taught me that, all else being equal, bigger and heavier guns have less felt recoil than smaller and lighter guns.

This.

Felt recoil is very subjective though.

Variables like grip size and shape, and height of bore axis come into play.

[Pappabear]

There are so many variables its crazy. Like, spring, ammo and grip and model of guns ...perception. I find myself liking the 229 vs 226 Sigs slightly more. But I shot my best match with my 226 Legion a couple matches ago, so go figure. The timer doesn't lie. Confidence is huge too.

Interesting thread.

PB

[ruchik]

I've always felt the opposite to tbe true. At least for the P320. I shot a Compact and a full size, both with the compact frame, back to back.

To me, it felt like the shorter Compact slide had less felt recoil and more muzzle rise. The full size felt like it had more recoil, but less muzzle rise. I figured that made sense, given that more mass meant less overall movement upwards, but more mass also meant more mass moving back and forth, hence the sensation of more felt recoil.

[Pappabear]

I've always felt the opposite to tbe true. At least for the P320. I shot a Compact and a full size, both with the compact frame, back to back.

To me, it felt like the shorter Compact slide had less felt recoil and more muzzle rise. The full size felt like it had more recoil, but less muzzle rise. I figured that made sense, given that more mass meant less overall movement upwards, but more mass also meant more mass moving back and forth, hence the sensation of more felt recoil.

And thats how it goes, everybody has an opinion. The longer slides feel like they have more bounce to me but my preference is slight at most.

PB

[1986s4]

I have a compact Beretta 92 and a full size. I really like the way the compact handles recoil but I like the full size grip. Guess I need a Centurion huh? I prefer 124/5 grain 9mm bullets and 147 gr. for .38 special. I have two nearly identical AR 15's. One with a 14.5 skinny barrel the other with a 14.5 Colt SOCOM heavy barrel. If I had to carry one all day I know which one I'd want. But for shooting? Give me the Colt barrel.