View Full Version : Colt mk12???
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-MK12-HBAR-Semi-Auto-18-Special-Purpose-Rifle-p/mk12-hbar.htm
I'm not sure about this thing.
1 in 9??? How can they say its great for 77 grain? I haven't shot an 18" barrel with 1 in 9, but 16" 1 in 9 didn't work very well with 77gr.
Mrgunsngear
02-02-19, 11:15
Seems to be another outsourced "colt" offering like the Expanses. I'm sure someone will buy them but I won't be one of them.
MK262?? MMMMMMM. Doesn't look so "ultimate" to me. Hyperbole.
Inkslinger
02-02-19, 11:21
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-MK12-HBAR-Semi-Auto-18-Special-Purpose-Rifle-p/mk12-hbar.htm
I'm not sure about this thing.
1 in 9??? How can they say its great for 77 grain? I haven't shot an 18" barrel with 1 in 9, but 16" 1 in 9 didn't work very well with 77gr.
Longer barrel offsets the slower twist rate. The twist would be almost identical to a 16” 1 in 8 or BCM’s 1 in 7.7 which is supposed to be optimized for the MK262.
Longer barrel offsets the slower twist rate.
I've found this to be, at least in some part, due to velocity... and thus increased bullet RPMs. I shot some really long bullets from my bolt gun at low velocities where they'd keyhole. But at full power loads, they flew correctly and started to even hint at accuracy.
Also... Pappabear's 1/9 20 inch bolt gun shoots 80 grain smks... and they're long ass bullets.
Renegade04
02-02-19, 12:16
Not even close to a Mk12 configuration. The main thing is that the barrel is all wrong. Definitely looks like a farmed-out build to me and they are trying to market it by using the Mk12 designation.
Seems to be another outsourced "colt" offering like the Expanses. I'm sure someone will buy them but I won't be one of them.
That was my first thought. Either that or one of those colt competition rifles that someone modified.
Why Colt, why?
I trusted you...
MorphCross
02-02-19, 14:19
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-MK12-HBAR-Semi-Auto-18-Special-Purpose-Rifle-p/mk12-hbar.htm
Yeah, I'm going to go with no. If I had the 900m range close enough to make regular use of a clone I would buy one of Monte's fully loaded clones.
Is Colt’s new business model to outsource everything and charge for the pony? I am confused...
Why Colt, why?
I trusted you...
They probably kill younglings too
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They probably kill younglings too
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I’m okay with this.
But still....just stick to making regular guns and stop outsourcing mediocrity.
Meh...just get an LMT.
I was finna drop coin on their XM177E2 but then I sobered up
I wish they would take the time to understand where their product fits in the market. Colt is known for quality, but damn--they could have made 1 in 7 and spec'd the chamber for mk262 so easily. Or marked the lower the way the mil rifles were when they were just sticking the uppers on the existing lowers. Allen engineering is making the muzzle device/suppressor now for SPR clones, could have also easily procured the correct muzzle device/stepped the barrel for the collar. I also don't know what they mean by the custom carbine receiver extension. Is this a Mil-spec carbine extension with some sort of adapter under an A2 stock? It says it has rifle gas system, so I wonder what they did with the gas port and buffer weight.
For the price they are asking, seems like a missed opportunity. Maybe it shoots like a dream, is sub MOA with mk262 and I'm just being a dick.
AU caught some flak for this on their subform on TOS, and it seems like they had Colt make these for them? If so, I wonder if it's AU's fault for not properly spec'ing it. I'm sure if someone had the money, and the ability to buy in volume, Colt would cater to them within reason (and the barrel twist doesn't seem too outrageous).
I'll have to check it out, I never go there anymore due to content toxicity.
AU caught some flak for this on their subform on TOS, and it seems like they had Colt make these for them? If so, I wonder if it's AU's fault for not properly spec'ing it. I'm sure if someone had the money, and the ability to buy in volume, Colt would cater to them within reason (and the barrel twist doesn't seem too outrageous).
AU hasn’t been forthcoming with more picture detailing the markings on these guns.
I still don’t know if they are Hartford guns or some type of 3rd party build like the expanse.
pointblank4445
02-02-19, 18:34
Looks like a 6724 with a chopped and threaded barrel and a KAC rail...
Why does everyone assume Colt farmed out the production of the rifles in question? A lot of bashing going on without any real evidence.
Is Colt’s new business model to outsource everything and charge for the pony? I am confused...
No, it isn't. I don't look at this as much different than when Daniel Defense launched their MK12, which was absolutely nothing more than an attempt to capitalize on the MK12 name. At least this one is closer in that it is using the correct rail. However, the loss of the front end is not excusable in my opinion. Colt has taken the easy way out with this one, yet even with this, I appreciate their willingness to deviate from just their standard offerings.
No, it isn't. I don't look at this as much different than when Daniel Defense launched their MK12, which was absolutely nothing more than an attempt to capitalize on the MK12 name. At least this one is closer in that it is using the correct rail. However, the loss of the front end is not excusable in my opinion. Colt has taken the easy way out with this one, yet even with this, I appreciate their willingness to deviate from just their standard offerings.
I feel the same way in being glad they are trying to innovate. Maybe there are just a lot more 1 in 9 guys out there than I realize who only want to burn through XM193 and 885. This bastardized mk12 might be better for those who like to shoot dirt clods with the cheapest bullets possible vs those who want the highest quality and bug hole groups. I’m in the latter group. I already have my SPR fix from Monty, just would have been cool to have a mk12 buddy for that rifle made by Colt.
KAC can you resurrect a “real mk12 mod1”??? :)
Renegade04
02-03-19, 17:31
For those looking for a more correct version, High Caliber Sales does offer a M12 Mod 1 upper assembly.
OPTION 1 @ $1565.00
Premium air-gauged Douglas stainless barrel 1/7 twist
Crane style low profile gas block
M4 extended feed ramps
Rifle length gas tube
AR15 bolt carrier and MPI inspected bolt
PRI gas buster charging handle
Ops Inc/AE muzzle brake and collar
KAC free float long RAS hand guard
http://highcalibersales.com/mk12-mod1-upper.html
All you have to do is build the lower assembly.
minuteman1636
09-27-19, 22:11
Well, I picked up one of the AU 'Colt MK12 HBAR' rifles just before the Colt panic market hit...21 Sep 2019 to be exact. I am gathering some historical/developmental information on these rifles which I will publish here at a later date. I know many people are curious about rifle details.
58964
Renegade04
09-28-19, 07:55
Well, I picked up one of the AU 'Colt MK12 HBAR' rifles just before the Colt panic market hit...21 Sep 2019 to be exact. I am gathering some historical/developmental information on these rifles which I will publish here at a later date. I know many people are curious about rifle details.
58964
Here is some reading for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_12_Special_Purpose_Rifle
http://www.snipercentral.com/mk12-spr/
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Official-Mk12-Mod0-Mod1-ModH-Photo-and-Discussion-Thread/118-520524/
minuteman1636
09-28-19, 08:16
James I'm not here to give people a history lesson on legitimate MK. 12's. We all know the name was a poor choice. I have a Mod. 0 clone and am aware the rifle is not near the specs of a Mod.0 or Mod.1. My only goal is to give interested people more details on what the rifle actually is.
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Looks like a 6724 with a chopped and threaded barrel and a KAC rail...
This. Looks like they had leftovers and at least knew 24” was a bit passé. Chop, thread, slap rails on, and profit.
minuteman1636
09-28-19, 13:29
Fair assumption Jeff but surprisingly there is a bit more of a backstory to it.
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Fair assumption Jeff but surprisingly there is a bit more of a backstory to it.
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When you publish the info you have, I’ll definitely read up on it... guess #2 would be an attempt to score a large LE contract. Which would seem like the “easy button” if said agency already has contracts with Colt. But that’s pure conjecture.
Regardless, let us know how she shoots.
minuteman1636
09-28-19, 14:55
In short, the rifle concept was born out of a PD capability request right after the Las Vegas shooting. I will have some additional details.
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Why are you being coy? I don’t get it.
minuteman1636
09-28-19, 17:27
CPM, not meaning to be coy. I just want to get the write up done and posted. Otherwise, bits and pieces of information posted individually lead to multiple question and answer sessions. I'm just trying to be efficient with the use of my time and keep everyone from getting multiple post updates.
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People actually care about this stuff?
Like .mil contract weapons cool. But bastardized cloneish offerings? Nah
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minuteman1636
09-28-19, 17:33
Yeah, some people actually do want to know. You may not, and that is fine. I appreciate your sarcasm.
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You’re obviously doing the lords work so rock on with your bad self.
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minuteman1636
09-28-19, 17:45
The lords work...lol. I'm pretty sure there is a welcoming committee waiting for me at the gates of hell. My list of sins and guilty pleasures is probably a bit too long to get me access above.
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minuteman1636
09-28-19, 18:09
You’re obviously doing the lords work so rock on with your bad self.
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jpmuscle, to give you some insight into my sickness, I have a website that I have been adding information and history to about Colt AR's sold on the civilian market. It is www.thecoltar15resource.com. When I started collecting Colt AR's while deployed in 2017, I saw that there was not a reliable source for information on specific Colt AR rifles sold to civilians. You had to do a lot of hunting on the internet to find information and then you were usually stuck piecing stuff together from different sources. The intent with my website is that one day, Colt AR collectors in the future will have one place that they can go to in order to learn about different Colt AR models. Right now, accurate information on Colt AR's is scattered across the www and you don't know what is accurate and what is bs. I just started on the site earlier this year. It will take a couple of years of adding data to it to make it respectable.
So, this rifle and the story behind it is of natural interest to me and a handful of others. Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Dude I’m not knocking ya. Just some gentle ribbing. We all have our interests.
I’m pretty sure I follow your page on IG too if it’s the one I’m thinking of.
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minuteman1636
09-28-19, 19:45
Oh I wasn't taking any of your comments in a negative way at all. A little bit of bantering keeps us all a couple of years younger.
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everready73
09-28-19, 21:14
No, it isn't. I don't look at this as much different than when Daniel Defense launched their MK12, which was absolutely nothing more than an attempt to capitalize on the MK12 name. At least this one is closer in that it is using the correct rail. However, the loss of the front end is not excusable in my opinion. Colt has taken the easy way out with this one, yet even with this, I appreciate their willingness to deviate from just their standard offerings.
Is BCM's version closer to spec than DD?
Renegade04
09-29-19, 19:53
Is BCM's version closer to spec than DD?
About the only company making Mk12 Mod 1 uppers close to the original is High Caliber Sales.
http://highcalibersales.com/mk12-mod1-upper.html
The BCM is somewhat close, but a few things are still not correct. Too many companies are advertising Mk12s, but they are only Mk12-inspired, including the Colt. A correctly built upper assembly is very expensive to build.
minuteman1636
09-29-19, 19:58
The Colt MK 12 name just kind of stuck after a police department asked for a 'MK 12' type rifle. I imagine more thought will go into a designation if similar circumstances ever repeat themselves.
On a sidenote, I will be back in Pensacola in June with the family. My daughter has another dance competition. We are going to stay on the island again I think at the Portofino.
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About the only company making Mk12 Mod 1 uppers close to the original is High Caliber Sales.
http://highcalibersales.com/mk12-mod1-upper.html
The BCM is somewhat close, but a few things are still not correct. Too many companies are advertising Mk12s, but they are only Mk12-inspired, including the Colt. A correctly built upper assembly is very expensive to build.
Centurion has one too that can be configured nearly identical iirc. Sans Douglas barrel.
https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/mk12upper.htm
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minuteman1636
10-02-19, 22:08
A quick look at the operating system of the Colt / Arms Unlimited LE 'MK 12'. I will have my write-up posted in the next day or two.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191003/d16fa617b7a2b4f473653d9ebe4e53bc.jpg
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Why on earth would they use a carbine length buffer with spacer instead of a rifle buffer?
minuteman1636
10-02-19, 23:01
Complete details will be in my article that I will post on Thursday (Friday at the latest). I will post a link here when it is up. The PD specification request drove the design.
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A quick look at the unique operating system of the Colt / Arms Unlimited LE 'MK 12'. I will have my write-up posted in the next day or two.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191003/d16fa617b7a2b4f473653d9ebe4e53bc.jpg
I'm curious as to where you learned your knowledge of the AR15/ M16/ M4 platform. In particular, which armorer courses or schools.
hotrodder636
10-03-19, 02:59
I am very interested to see what you detail about this particular gun. Thanks!
A quick look at the unique operating system of the Colt / Arms Unlimited LE 'MK 12'. I will have my write-up posted in the next day or two.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191003/d16fa617b7a2b4f473653d9ebe4e53bc.jpg
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minuteman1636
10-03-19, 06:41
I'm curious as to where you learned your knowledge of the AR15/ M16/ M4 platform. In particular, which armorer courses or schools.
Zero. No formal schooling at all. I am always reading and trying to learn from others as I can. I have 32 years (retire in May finally) in the Army but there is so much crap information that floats around the military community that it is almost a handicap. My military experience is mostly user level with the A1, A2, A4, M4 and M4A1. I have done some intermediate level (back when the Army had -10, -20, -30 level) maintenance but nothing to consider myself professionally qualified. Often, when I think I have learned something correctly, I find myself with new information. It is a never ending cycle it seems. Something I need to find more time and information on is things like gas port sizes/barrel lengths and how they impact weapon function. There again, you have to wade through a lot of internet info to find valid commentary.
I'm actually hoping to travel to some courses after retirement.
So, if you have any course recommendations or corrections for something I have posted, please let me know.
minuteman1636,
Sounds good, I wasn't sure if you were tied to Colt or the armorer courses at all. Thanks.
minuteman1636
10-03-19, 15:32
I'm just an old Joe who loves history, the AR-15 and firearms in general. I started collecting Colt AR's in 2017 while deployed. Colt AR's feed all of the addictions. Its been downhill ever since.
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In that config they could put on a PRS, but I find the buffer choice odd given the rifle extension...
minuteman1636
10-03-19, 23:10
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
Instead of coming here posting about your website, why not post at least a part of your review here, so it doesn't look like you are just pimping yourself. I'm not saying that you are big daddy pimpalot, but it can look that way, and most of us won't go to a different website when we came here to read about AR15s. Don't feel bad, I don't watch videos that people post here to drive traffic to their sites.
minuteman1636
10-04-19, 00:10
I appreciate the comment Stickman. It wasn't my intent to 'drive' anyone to me site. Just didn't think posting that here would be acceptable. I will heed your advice. Thank you.
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Steve Shannon
10-04-19, 02:47
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
Very nice article. I enjoyed reading it.
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I thought this was cool. One thing that perhaps you could clarify is how you came about the details, ie someone at AU responded to your inquiry, etc
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
A week of repetitive spammy "review coming soon!" teaser posts, and the culmination is a click-bait link to your website?
No thanks.
If you want to use the forum to advertise your site, buy some Ad space.
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
A week of repetitive spammy "review coming soon!" teaser posts, and the culmination is a click-bait link to your website?
No thanks.
If you want to contribute, contribute on the forum. If you just want to use the forum to drive traffic to your personal webpage, buy some ad space.
minuteman1636
10-04-19, 07:27
Tx Aggie, 'spamming' was never my intent. I won't post in that manner again. As you can tell I'm fairly new here. I was simply trying to share information as I progressed. It won't happen again.
Overall, I could care less if anyone visits the site. I get zero benefit from it. It isn't set-up for advertising, Im not selling anything...I don't make any money. I'm just using it as data storage point that others can see. You guys are a tough crowd.
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Tx Aggie, 'spamming' was never my intent. I won't post in that manner again. As you can tell I'm fairly new here. I was simply trying to share information as I progressed. It won't happen again.
Overall, I could care less if anyone visits the site. I get zero benefit from it. It isn't set-up for advertising, I'm not selling anything...I don't make any money. I'm just using it as data storage point that others can see. You guys are a tough crowd.
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Apologies if I was a little harsh, but a week long build-up just to end up with a link elsewhere doesn't appeal to me at all.
If you were post your write-up in it's entirety here on the forum, perhaps in it's own thread so that it doesn't get lost in this one, and then include a link to your site at the end of the post I'd be surprised if you didn't receive a very positive response from the forum. Other members have done and continue to do that with good results.
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
Interesting. Thanks for doing the work.
For anyone interested in taking a look, I finally posted my write-up on the Colt /Arms Unlimited MK 12 HBAR rifle.
https://thecoltar15resource.com/colt-arms-unlimited-mk-12-le-rifle-history/
This is the first time that I have finally posted something complete. If you look at it, I am wide open to feedback...both positive and negative. Nothing will upset me.
If you have a comment, please just email it to me if possible at minuteman1636@hotmail.com. I don't want to spam people here with updated posts they probably don't have an interest in seeing.
Next up is a small article on the SCW stock.
Can you look in your AU MK12 upper and post what the feedramp configuration is on the upper and chamber extension?
minuteman1636
10-08-19, 14:15
Sent you an email Mr. Ryan.
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Good write-up. Thanks for the effort.
I’ve look over your site and look forward to you populating it. If you’re as thorough with other write-ups and information it will be an extremely useful Colt resource.
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