View Full Version : Suggest a relatively inexpensive AR for a truck gun? ETA: PROBLEM SOLVED!
I need a cost-effective but reliable AR for self defense duty out on the road. I don't want to carry my good rifles. I need something to throw behind the seats just in case.
What do y'all suggest?
ETA: Thanks for the sugeestions.
Colt LE6920 purchased today.
M&P sport or PSA rifle. PSA pistol for smaller.
Look for a scuffed up police or agency trade in.
Are you looking to keep it loaded? I ask because in Virginia I can't have a loaded rife in the passenger area of my vehicle, but with a CCW I can have an AR pistol.
Your state might have similar laws.
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I think it's somewhat ironic that people want the cheapest gun they can have for a truck gun. When this is the gun you're probably most likely ro actually need in an emergency...
It's not that I don't get the the reasoning behind not wanting to leave a KAC sitting and banging around in your vehicle; I definitely get it. However, my rule of thumb is that if I won't use it for home defence, hand it over for self defense to the person I love most, or be okay with it being my only rifle or pistol in a SHTF situation, then it isn't any more than a range toy. And I sure as heck am not going to make it my truck gun and trust my, or my family's life to it
Where do you live?
Ditto the trade ins. Look at Recoil Gunworks.
Look for a scuffed up police or agency trade in.
This is good advice. An old PD Colt would be best bet. AIM has them occasionally I believe
Are you looking to keep it loaded? I ask because in Virginia I can't have a loaded rife in the passenger area of my vehicle, but with a CCW I can have an AR pistol.
Your state might have similar laws.
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In TX you can have an AR loaded with one up the spout and open carry, or vehicle carry. Not a problem.
I think it's somewhat ironic that people want the cheapest gun they can have for a truck gun. When this is the gun you're probably most likely ro actually need in an emergency...
It's not that I don't get the the reasoning behind not wanting to leave a KAC sitting and banging around in your vehicle; I definitely get it. However, my rule of thumb is that if I won't use it for home defence, hand it over for self defense to the person I love most, or be okay with it being my only rifle or pistol in a SHTF situation, then it isn't any more than a range toy. And I sure as heck am not going to make it my truck gun and trust my, or my family's life to it
Key words in post #1: "cost-effective" and "reliable."
The Custom Build sub-forum will also yield a good amount of "budget builds" using quality parts. An example would look like this:
$125 Blem Sionics barrel
$100 Centurion Arms BCG on sale
$10 GI charging handle
$60 BCM stripped upper receiver
$40 blem ALG handguard
$10 A2 muzzle device
$50 gas block and gas tube
=$395 for high quality upper
+
$175 blem Sionics lower and lpk
$50 for used grip, receiver extension, and stock from E&E
=$225
Upper plus lower=$620
A few WTB ads in the right places would probably even net you stuff cheaper, since people aren't opposed to helping a little, and some of these parts are just collecting dust on people's shelves.
What does your truck look like? ;)
I need an inexpensive rifle. :D :D :D
Key words in post #1: "cost-effective" and "reliable."For sure.
If I were you, I wouldn't go with anything lower than a basic Colt 6920, or maybe a higher quality "blem" build of some sort, as has been mentioned. But I'd go with a nicely broken in 6920 first.
A used (but not abused) LE6920 or a high quality budget build are my recommendations.
Upper plus lower=$620
Colt gold extractor spring $4
Upper + Lower + Reliability = $624
if cheap is the main point and smaller is better (for vehicle uses), consider a PSA pistol kit ($280), plus lower ($40) and rear sight ($30), all totaling around $350
its what i built for the same need. might not be the finest option, but so far its functioned well:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-classic-shockwave-pistol-kit-black-5165449130.html
GUNSLINGER67
02-07-19, 09:54
Yeah , put me down for another vote for an econo PSA build ....and shop for as many decent, used parts as you can find.
grizzlyblake
02-07-19, 10:15
If it's something that you're going to leave "behind the seat" of a truck and it's going to get beat around with your old Cheetos crumbs and spilled Mountain Dew, and then let go through large temperature swings daily, I'd say you want something that's not a cheap "may work" budget build.
If you legit think you'll need to shoot someone and need 100% reliability get a Colt 6720, a DD rear sight, and a couple Okay mags with high quality ammo.
As info - Guns Midwest has new 6720s for $784 as of this morning.
SouthwestAviator
02-07-19, 10:28
You can get a Colt 6920 OEM for not much more than a S&W M&P Sporter II and have an actual military grade rifle. Clyde Armory has the OEMs in stock last I checked. I’d stick with companies that have military contracts.
I would probably look for a PD trade in Colt, or look for a good price on a new Colt 6720/6920/OEM. Alternately, you could spread your cost out if you wanted to build.
That’s just my opinion.
thopkins22
02-07-19, 11:26
Honestly, for something like that you can push almost anything into service with a few tweaks.
Make sure the carrier key is properly torqued and staked.
Lots of vibration/crap getting tossed onto it, I would personally want to have fixed sights.
Run one of Ned’s reamer’s through the chamber if the discount price makes you question the in-specness of the chamber.
Make sure the receiver extension is 7000 series aluminum and that the castle nut is properly torqued and staked.
And magically, I almost guarantee you that you will have a reliable rifle. It may not last as long as wizbang barrel steel rifles, and it may beat itself to death slowly because its so overpassed etc...but it will almost assuredly work and be fine for the life of your truck and next truck as something to always have there and shoot occasionally.
It’s a testament to the design how wrong a lot of these things can be and still work.
With all that said, look at your pricing carefully. I’m an old school chart guy. It isn’t the end of the world, but when you deviate it should be for a reason. I think it’s likely that many of the rifles you see that tick most of the boxes are going to be competitively priced with the “bargain” rifles.
If that doesn’t fit your budget, there’s a lot to be said for an inexpensive bolt action in an intermediate caliber...especially with the right sighting system and a concealed handgun.
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/category.cfm/sportsman/used-firearms/of3/5.56-MM
A bunch of police trade-ins here. Something that may likely be used in a situation should be reliable but not expensive. It’s kind of pointless to spend $2000 on something only to have it taken as evidence for who knows how long.
Depends on the area of the country, proximity to state lines, your financial commitment, etc etc
For the purpose suggested, a handgun seems most practical.
If it’s going to stay in the vehicle, you must be close to or in the vehicle when you need it. Try moving around a 10.3 or 11.3” carbine in a confined space while seated. I have one and have tried it.
If you don’t really mean self-defense and instead mean “end of the world” or “running into the bank to save my wife from robbers” or “I’m as cool as that SAS guy,” then I’d probably go with the cheapest pistol lower I could find that still works 100% (PSA) and drop a used BCM upper on it. Or, a Colt 6720 if for some reason I’ll need to shoot a dude a football field away.
The Colt 6920 or Colt Trooper model is a great inexpensive option that can often be found for around $800. If you want to go cheaper than that, and short, you can get complete 10.5" AR pistol from PSA for around $500-550 shipped. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-9-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-sba3-pistol-5165449599.html . I've put around 1,200 rounds through one of the PSA 10.5" AR pistols never had an issue.
I understand wanting to go cheap on the truck gun. Not because it will 'get banged up', but more because your chances of having a gun stolen from a car break in/smash and grab are much higher. I keep my truck in my garage at night, locked and it has a car alarm, so I don't worry as much at night, but when I'm out and about or at work it could be easy for someone to smash a window and grab a few things.
Anyway, get a used or new Colt if you can afford it. If not, buy a PSA, inspect it, and shoot a bunch of rounds though it to make sure it's good to go, and you should be fine.
What does your truck look like? ;)
I need an inexpensive rifle. :D :D :D
Molon labe!!!!
Molon labe!!!!
$heeeeit, you wont be there to stop me, I'll get it when you be sleeping in yo crib or at your ladies house doin the nasty.
Truck guns / Car guns ====> FREE GUNZ!!!!
:D :D :D
I have no "truck" guns or "car" guns. I have guns that I carry for self defense. They go in the house each night and they become my "house" guns.. There is no collector value to 99% of AR's out there, so I have no undying need to keep them nice.
Looked up "Truck Gun" in the dictionary. It said, "Follow these links. This is all you need." Take your pick.
https://store.ratworxusa.com/products/rifles-colt-ar6720-098289023247-2545
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/78051/Firearms/Rifles/Colt/Colt+AR6720+AR15-A3+Tactical+Carbine+20+1+223REM/5.56NATO+16.1
https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/part-number-6-0135503-098289023247.do
https://www.impactguns.com/semi-automatic-rifles/colt-ar15-a4-lightweight-le-carbine-223-5-56-16-light-barrel-30rd-mag-098289023247-ar6720
vicious_cb
02-07-19, 22:32
1. Get the main rifle you use now
2. Put a LAW folder on it
3. ????
4. Trunk gun
Is this the same kind of truck gun "rifle" that has been discussed in countless other threads? A cheap rifle that is always left in there waiting to be stolen when your vehicle is broken into?
Also, if the said purpose of AR is a "truck gun" as in SHTF and you need a rifle, why would you want to risk it with the cheapest AR you can get?
vicious_cb
02-07-19, 23:53
Is this the same kind of truck gun "rifle" that has been discussed in countless other threads? A cheap rifle that is always left in there waiting to be stolen when your vehicle is broken into?
Also, if the said purpose of AR is a "truck gun" as in SHTF and you need a rifle, why would you want to risk it with the cheapest AR you can get?
How people think a trunk gun is going to be used:
https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/metro-news-s3-prod/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Header_2241912_16.9-1024x575.jpg
How its actually going to be used:
https://cdns.abclocal.go.com/content/ktrk/images/cms/automation/vod/2836175_1280x720.jpg
thopkins22
02-08-19, 00:20
I mean, there’s a whole lot of “depends” on that type of outlook. I have a “truck gun” and it lives in the Jeep when I’m bouncing around on hunting trips, fishing trips, or other outdoor adventures. It lives in the Jeep when I run up to my buddy’s ranch. It’s the rifle that gets dew on it and maybe a little bit of barf from a pointer that are too much grass. It gets banged around shooting pigs with spotlights, but needs to remain in good enough shape to put a shot on deer.
There is no desire for a rifle that will be grabbed during the revolution or apocalypse...just a reliable rifle that will be treated like crap.
That’s what I assume folks looking for a truck rifle are looking for. Not something to accompany them on every urban ride.
I would take my most reliable rifle, the one that I practice with the most and know the best.
Just my .02 cents.
thegreyman
02-08-19, 05:46
Seriously, one that as cost efective and reliable as your truck. A good one like you have in your home for self defense (that you don't leave in your truck to be stolen).
... rifle that is always left in there waiting to be stolen when your vehicle is broken into? .....
if one lives where that happens, i agree.
but one can live where it doesn't happen.
in my 50 years in rural texas and oregon, i've yet to hear of anyone stealing a firearm out of a vehicle (i live where people still never lock their doors)
The aero OEMs from brownells seem pretty good for 480ish imo
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friendlyfireisnt
02-08-19, 14:21
I was fortunate enough to do a 3-day course with Paul Howe last year that revolved around this topic. We used pistols while bailing out of vehicles, then transitioned to carbines stashed in low-profile cases we had in the vehicles. We got to see a lot of the advantages of the setups we had, figured out what worked and more importantly, what didn't.
We all found that recovering a carbine from a vehicle, even from a staged low-profile carry bag, under time duress takes longer than most would like to admit. Change that to a locked hard case, and it will take significant time to get a carbine into use. I had a very quick setup to use; 11.3" SBR with LAW folder in a Larue Discreet Case. I could have it out of the case, slung and round in the chamber very quickly, but even then I found it took longer than I would like.
One point that Paul brought up during the class was that while you can easily remain low-profile while carrying a pistol, once you employ the carbine, you are now very high profile. That's something to consider, once you bring out the carbine, you are no longer the gray man. You are the guy with the gun.
Here are two of my setups that sometimes travel with me:
.300blk 10.3" with Aimpoint PRO and 3 30-round mags, and a 20-round mag in the mag well. This is the lower profile setup, that is still easy to secure and lockup.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4772/40605314371_579c7f543c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24S9Ri6)
This is what just came with me on a 2 1/2 week trip, driving through 5 or 6 states, and a plane ride home. 14.5" BCM LWT upper (pinned to 16"), BCM Lower, Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x with Larue mount. I also keep my Glock 19 in there. The lower level in the case keeps 6 loaded mags, plus some spare 5.56 and 9mm ammo, spare pistol mags, a spare BCG, and a small vial of oil. I jokingly call it "Ye Olde Box of Hate and Discontent". It's of course not low profile, but it's secure and allows me to carry a lot. Weighs 40#.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4862/40064774713_d8d1f9ff9b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/243orFP)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7854/32088053107_a4344d69e8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/QTvEfX)
As mentioned already, once in my vehicle, I have a steel cable that is padlocked to the case to discourage theft.
I think it's somewhat ironic that people want the cheapest gun they can have for a truck gun. When this is the gun you're probably most likely ro actually need in an emergency...
I agree with the sentiment 100% in that a firearm being selected for defensive use should be the highest quality one can afford, versus the cheapest they can find at PSA.
I also agree that around a vehicle is one of the more likely locations to need a firearm as a tool, but I think it will more than likely be a pistol that is utilized rather than a carbine. At least in the civilian world. I see a pistol as being the likely choice due to availability and speed in employing that weapon. I would rather have a carbine in that environment, but as a civilian, I expect a pistol to be the more likely tool.
That said, I usually travel with a carbine and a pistol when I can. Rule of the thumb, I feel I should always have a pistol available wherever I go (where legal), and if I am in an area where I feel like I need a pistol, I should probably have a carbine available as well. Or just not be there.
Is this the same kind of truck gun "rifle" that has been discussed in countless other threads? A cheap rifle that is always left in there waiting to be stolen when your vehicle is broken into?
Also, if the said purpose of AR is a "truck gun" as in SHTF and you need a rifle, why would you want to risk it with the cheapest AR you can get?
I've unfortunately had a firearm stolen from a vehicle, when I was young and didn't know better. Ruger Blackhawk in .357. Stolen from my truck less than 30 yards from where I was working, in a well lit parking lot. Was in a backpack, locked up in a factory hard case. Was recovered some time later when the FBI raided a drug house.
Learned my lesson. Now, any firearm in the vehicle that isn't coming with me at all destinations, gets not only locked up in a suitable lockable case, but also is tethered to my vehicle via a metal cable.
grizzlyblake
02-08-19, 14:56
For non LE what kind of situation would have to happen where you are pulling a carbine out of the truck? I understand ranch rifles, coyotes, and such, but this is clearly a hypothetical gun fight.
For non LE what kind of situation would have to happen where you are pulling a carbine out of the truck? I understand ranch rifles, coyotes, and such, but this is clearly a hypothetical gun fight.
You're on a two lane road . . . somewhere. You have a flat tire. While you're changing it, a car pulls up about 90 feet ahead. They sit there a minute, looking you over. There are four men. Three get out, two carrying Glocks, one has a shotgun.
Now, you have to decide: do I take these guys on with only my EDC 9mm handgun, or do I submit and hope I live?
The rifle gives you a third choice: roll into the ditch and start firing .223, about one a second. When the gang figures out that you're not going to stop, they'll skedaddle, if you haven't already hit them.
For non LE what kind of situation would have to happen where you are pulling a carbine out of the truck? I understand ranch rifles, coyotes, and such, but this is clearly a hypothetical gun fight.For the record, I don't keep a rifle in my vehicle. At most I have a pistol and four mags (one mag in the pistol, one on my person, and the other two in a bag either on my person or in my vehicle). The pistol is always in my waistband though, so never left in my vehicle.
With that said..
I do think there are situations that could warrant keeping a rifle or AR "pistol" in a vehicle.
Example: If you commute in and out of a large city for work and said city doesn't have laws preventing it, I think it can make sense. Even living in an extremely red state like Oklahoma with a population of under 4 million, there have been situations pop up that have made me consider carrying a rifle. Two or three different times I've heard of someone in a vehicle or on the side of the road shooting at vehicles on the highway. These are roads I travel or have traveled daily as well. The city I currently work in has also had a few different officer involved shootings, one being only a couple blocks from my workplace and within an hour a group of a couple hundred pissed of people had gathered in protest. These don't usually get out of hand, but to think they can't is wishful thinking.
It may not be right for everyone and the situation always dictates what you carry, but I do think it has a place..
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Doc Safari
02-08-19, 16:02
I don't know if this fits your situation, but I would never go out and buy a new firearm specifically for the purpose of making it a truck gun.
I've always taken a proven, well-worn ugly duckling carbine that already has some character marks and make it my truck gun.
(This also gives you an excuse to buy another new one to put in the safe. After all, that space in the safe looks rather empty now).
:thank_you2:
Eurodriver
02-08-19, 16:24
KAC SR25 ACC makes the most sense.
KAC SR25 ACC makes the most sense.
I am forced to use a mere SR25 ECC as a truck gun like a homeless person....
I am forced to use a mere SR25 ECC as a truck gun like a homeless person....
So a "Cart Gun", then?
AT-4 would give you a 4th option, you know.
LOL, it happens all the time unless you live in a bubble.
if one lives where that happens, i agree.
but one can live where it doesn't happen.
in my 50 years in rural texas and oregon, i've yet to hear of anyone stealing a firearm out of a vehicle (i live where people still never lock their doors)
You're on a two lane road . . . somewhere. You have a flat tire. While you're changing it, a car pulls up about 90 feet ahead. They sit there a minute, looking you over. There are four men. Three get out, two carrying Glocks, one has a shotgun.
Now, you have to decide: do I take these guys on with only my EDC 9mm handgun, or do I submit and hope I live?
The rifle gives you a third choice: roll into the ditch and start firing .223, about one a second. When the gang figures out that you're not going to stop, they'll skedaddle, if you haven't already hit them.Sooooo.... they're not going to shoot you when your back is to them as you're digging around in the trunk?
You're on a two lane road . . . somewhere. You have a flat tire. While you're changing it, a car pulls up about 90 feet ahead. They sit there a minute, looking you over. There are four men. Three get out, two carrying Glocks, one has a shotgun.
Now, you have to decide: do I take these guys on with only my EDC 9mm handgun, or do I submit and hope I live?
The rifle gives you a third choice: roll into the ditch and start firing .223, about one a second. When the gang figures out that you're not going to stop, they'll skedaddle, if you haven't already hit them.
Sooooo.... they're not going to shoot you when your back is to them as you're digging around in the trunk?
I’m with Arik here. Your idea that you are gonna get a rifle out of the vehicle in that situation in time is unrealistic.
Not to mention the fact that in my area, Central TX, guns stolen out of vehicles are THE number one source of crime guns.
If you really want an AR for “just in case” the best option would be an AR pistol with a law folder in a “normal” looking back pack or bag you can take with you most places and take in the house at night.
You're not digging around for it when trouble shows up. Before changing the tire you put it in arm's reach. This stuff ain't rocket science.
I have carried a number of different truck guns for over 20 years now. Haven't lost one yet, though I know it happens. I dont care. Thieves steal things, it's what they do. I don't victim blame.
That out of the way my current truck gun is a 10.5 Palmetto FN CHF upper with a simple Magpul handguard sporting a tlr 1. The lower is a new Palmetto State assembled as a pistol with a Kak Shockwave on it. Used a Spikes LPK on it. Its topped with a super ugly Aimpoint comp M4 bought used and abused..Includes a Magpul buis and simple 2 point gi sling. Used a Palmetto/Toolcraft milspec bolt in it.
It's not cabled or otherwise locked up. It rides next to the drivers seat of my f150 with an old coat draped over it. It has for about 5 years now....I have probably 700 rounds through it, have to look at its book for sure...Never had an issue with it. Keep it loaded with Federal M193.
I have also attended CSATs Urban Defense. I can deploy my pistol VERY quickly as I have it set up. I simply throw off the coat and drag the gun out with me as I exit the vehicle. I've done it probably a couple hundred
times in practice at the ranch while training...
grizzlyblake
02-09-19, 08:02
I have carried a number of different truck guns for over 20 years now. Haven't lost one yet, though I know it happens. I dont care. Thieves steal things, it's what they do.
I don't care about it from a financial standpoint, but it makes me sick to think of my gun being used by some little thuglette to commit crimes against other innocent people.
I don't care about it from a financial standpoint, but it makes me sick to think of my gun being used by some little thuglette to commit crimes against other innocent people.
I understand what you're saying but for thugs, guns are literally a tool of their trade. Most of us can't really say that, sure we have guns, train with and carry them.... but we dont rely on them to make a living....they do. Point ? They are GOING TO GET A GUN IF THEY WANT ONE. Thats the hilarious reality of gun control in a nutshell, it doesnt really affect those most likely to be a problem!
Just putting this out there:
There are to this day still two HK G36 rifles and four MP5s still floating around the Metro ATL area that were taken from police cars parked up at the house.
And these were taken well over a decade ago.
So if you drive a whitefolksmobile with Magpul crap, Black Rifle Coffee crap, Kill em all crap, US Army crap, Marine crap, ANYTHING with a blue line or Punisher skull crap on it then that is just as juicy a plum.
So if you wouldn’t go up to Thuggybear and buy him an AR15 then you really don’t want a “truck gun”.
Like... I have unironically toted my SR25 in my truck to hunting land but it NEVER left my immediate control.
Anything not on you may as well be on Mars.
Like if you are at the mall and some emo kid starts shooting up the place, have fun making your way to your truck, coming back, getting in a gunfight and then explain to umpteen police with rifles that you are the good guy here.
For every hero story, there are a hundred tragic tales. How about oh I dunno...this is crazy but hear me out...just getting good with your CCW that you have constant and immediate control over than hedging it all on some cheap lameass AR that will get stolen or accrue humidity before it ever has a chance to be useful.
Huge facts
Firefly hit it all, but this is particularly poignant:
So if you drive a whitefolksmobile with Magpul crap, Black Rifle Coffee crap, Kill em all crap, US Army crap, Marine crap, ANYTHING with a blue line or Punisher skull crap on it then that is just as juicy a plum.
I’m not a big supporter of any “truck gun,” but to counter that point myself, I cannot carry my pistol in the state in which I work, while I can keep a loaded firearm within reach in my car. So, it could conceivably be reasponable to keep an AR pistol accessible BUT I do not personally do this. Not worth being hassled if it ever came up.
Just putting this out there:
There are to this day still two HK G36 rifles and four MP5s still floating around the Metro ATL area that were taken from police cars parked up at the house.
And these were taken well over a decade ago.
So if you drive a whitefolksmobile with Magpul crap, Black Rifle Coffee crap, Kill em all crap, US Army crap, Marine crap, ANYTHING with a blue line or Punisher skull crap on it then that is just as juicy a plum.
So if you wouldn’t go up to Thuggybear and buy him an AR15 then you really don’t want a “truck gun”.
Like... I have unironically toted my SR25 in my truck to hunting land but it NEVER left my immediate control.
Anything not on you may as well be on Mars.
Like if you are at the mall and some emo kid starts shooting up the place, have fun making your way to your truck, coming back, getting in a gunfight and then explain to umpteen police with rifles that you are the good guy here.
For every hero story, there are a hundred tragic tales. How about oh I dunno...this is crazy but hear me out...just getting good with your CCW that you have constant and immediate control over than hedging it all on some cheap lameass AR that will get stolen or accrue humidity before it ever has a chance to be useful.
Huge facts
Yup. Agree with you 100%. Cops shouldnt carry long guns if they are going to get them stolen or point them at the wrong people. Your post proves the point......
grizzlyblake
02-09-19, 13:10
How about oh I dunno...this is crazy but hear me out...just getting good with your CCW that you have constant and immediate control over than hedging it all on some cheap lameass AR that will get stolen or accrue humidity before it ever has a chance to be useful.
Ain't nobody wanna see that on Instagram.
ARFCOM Invade! The wannabe gunfighter is strong in this thread with their made up scenarios of gunfights on the side of the road. The same people who want the cheapest possible truck gun PSA AR that they are going to jump into action with are the same ones I'll be taking a stolen firearm report from and their excuse will be "I forgot to lock my truck doors but I didn't think anything of it because its never happened to me before and I don't know anyone around here who has had it happen." If you aren't taking it in with you wherever you go stick to your CCW. Also dont leave your "sometimes CCW" XD40 in you center console either.
friendlyfireisnt
02-09-19, 17:21
I’m with Arik here. Your idea that you are gonna get a rifle out of the vehicle in that situation in time is unrealistic.
Not to mention the fact that in my area, Central TX, guns stolen out of vehicles are THE number one source of crime guns.
If you really want an AR for “just in case” the best option would be an AR pistol with a law folder in a “normal” looking back pack or bag you can take with you most places and take in the house at night.
I'm with you on this. I have a hard time seeing the use of a carbine as a truck gun in normal day-to-day life.
That said, as I mentioned I often keep a carbine in a locked case attached to my car when I am traveling, but that is more due to my desire to have a carbine at my destination rather than a perceived need while driving.
Additionally, I can see the need during certain situations, such as post natural disaster. There I see it as a positive item to have on hand.
I'm with you on this. I have a hard time seeing the use of a carbine as a truck gun in normal day-to-day life.
That said, as I mentioned I often keep a carbine in a locked case attached to my car when I am traveling, but that is more due to my desire to have a carbine at my destination rather than a perceived need while driving.
Additionally, I can see the need during certain situations, such as post natural disaster. There I see it as a positive item to have on hand.
I am the same way, I bring a carbine when I travel to my family's area because I will probably shoot while I'm there. It is also a security blanket if certain extremely unlikely scenarios play out.
Yes, the carbine comes into the motel with me if I stop for the night, but to prevent arming a thief not to arm myself.
I do carry a pistol on my person like many here, of course.
Andy
ARFCOM Invade! The wannabe gunfighter is strong in this thread with their made up scenarios of gunfights on the side of the road. The same people who want the cheapest possible truck gun PSA AR that they are going to jump into action with are the same ones I'll be taking a stolen firearm report from and their excuse will be "I forgot to lock my truck doors but I didn't think anything of it because its never happened to me before and I don't know anyone around here who has had it happen." If you aren't taking it in with you wherever you go stick to your CCW. Also dont leave your "sometimes CCW" XD40 in you center console either.
Why would anyone bother reporting a stolen firearm anyway? National clearance rates on burglaries are a whopping 17%.....big woo. When you think about the huge strides in forensic science combined with huge numbers of video cameras in modern America, it's really kind of pathetic honestly......The value of the gun less deductible- even with a very nice rifle isn't going to be worth the increase in your rates. The only reason to report it is to clear it out of your name realistically. How about those FACTS?
Heres some more "knowledge", until the Incompetent Cowards of Broward are held personally responsible for their actions, some of us will take our personal security into our own hands-using the best tools we have at our disposal.
Just putting this out there:
There are to this day still two HK G36 rifles and four MP5s still floating around the Metro ATL area that were taken from police cars parked up at the house.
And these were taken well over a decade ago.
So if you drive a whitefolksmobile with Magpul crap, Black Rifle Coffee crap, Kill em all crap, US Army crap, Marine crap, ANYTHING with a blue line or Punisher skull crap on it then that is just as juicy a plum.
So if you wouldn’t go up to Thuggybear and buy him an AR15 then you really don’t want a “truck gun”.
Like... I have unironically toted my SR25 in my truck to hunting land but it NEVER left my immediate control.
Anything not on you may as well be on Mars.
Like if you are at the mall and some emo kid starts shooting up the place, have fun making your way to your truck, coming back, getting in a gunfight and then explain to umpteen police with rifles that you are the good guy here.
For every hero story, there are a hundred tragic tales. How about oh I dunno...this is crazy but hear me out...just getting good with your CCW that you have constant and immediate control over than hedging it all on some cheap lameass AR that will get stolen or accrue humidity before it ever has a chance to be useful.
Huge facts
QFT
The confrontation in your imagination is not the one confrontation you will have on the street.
The K-Var newsletter recently had an article you might find interesting... https://blog.k-var.com/tactics/truck-trunk-gun/#more-4830
Anyway, I don't currently employ a truck/trunk rifle but I'm not opposed to it either. To each his own. And as the old saying goes, better to have and not need than to need and not have. Stay safe.
I like the idea of keeping a 12 gauge shotgun as a truck gun, one with little monetary or sentimental value, but tried and reliable. Along with a variety of ammo, a magazine plug, and an orange vest. Mostly for any impromptu hunting opportunity that may arise, but knowing that in a pinch it could also be employed in other ways.
I know, the OP specified AR, but my two cents.
300Blackout
02-10-19, 06:01
You are betting on two things. Reliability of the gun and security.
The question you are probably asking is “How much can I afford to loose, considering the safety of the areas I live and frequent.”
Only you can balance out the risk:reward ratio.
Risk: Will it be stolen
Reward: Peace if mind that I have a rifle, which is preferable to a handgun in some circumstances.
For some people, a new KAC is the answer, for others, a used S&W MP15 is too much of a risk. Because of budget and relative security.
My truck gun is one I can, reluctantly, afford to replace. I’m intentionally putting it in a position that is less secure than my safe, so I am betting on the chances that it will/won’t be stolen.
I’m not trying to be difficult, just pointing out what I consider when choosing a truck gun. I apologize if this comes across as harsh.
You are betting on two things. Reliability of the gun and security.
The question you are probably asking is “How much can I afford to loose, considering the safety of the areas I live and frequent.”
Only you can balance out the risk:reward ratio.
Risk: Will it be stolen
Reward: Peace if mind that I have a rifle, which is preferable to a handgun in some circumstances.
For some people, a new KAC is the answer, for others, a used S&W MP15 is too much of a risk. Because of budget and relative security.
My truck gun is one I can, reluctantly, afford to replace. I’m intentionally putting it in a position that is less secure than my safe, so I am betting on the chances that it will/won’t be stolen.
I’m not trying to be difficult, just pointing out what I consider when choosing a truck gun. I apologize if this comes across as harsh.
I think you're very reasonable in looking at the situation honestly. There are some people who are simply opposed to the idea. They are entitled to their opinions-which are nothing more than that-their opinions. Arguments can be made either way and have been.
Thinking that they are going to change someones mind on the Internet by appeals to authority and belittling folks isn't going to have the effect they were hoping for. Facts when well presented tend to be more persuassive.
A used (but not abused) LE6920 or a high quality budget build are my recommendations.
Bingo. I bought one with Magpul furniture and a DD backup iron for $750. It had like 200 rounds through it.
SHEEP-DOG1
02-10-19, 07:37
I might be in the wrong thread but in my truck I have a Benelli M4, 4 rounds “00 Buck”, 4 1oz. slugs zero’d @100. I also have 3 rounds of 7 shot, 4 shot and BB in a pouch... covers just about anything worth shooting!
I recently attended the funeral of a young police officer from the department I used to be with that was shot and killed with a handgun stolen from an unlocked vehicle just a couple days before the shooting.
Regardless of what your truck / trunk / car gun is, please keep it as secure as possible when you are not in your vehicle.
I keep a tethered pistol safe in my vehicle for those times I can not carry into certain facilities and a lockable cable I can use to tether a long gun with if necessary.
Hammer_Man
02-10-19, 10:35
https://youtu.be/M2R6HPR6FJE
Hammer_Man
02-10-19, 10:36
https://youtu.be/22cBcHDUtw8
300Blackout
02-10-19, 10:56
https://youtu.be/M2R6HPR6FJE
Florida. Shocker!
oopConsultant
02-10-19, 13:06
You can buy the complete upper and the lower parts kit from palmetto state academy for $300. Add a $40 lower from a gun show and using youtube you can build the AR-15 yourself for $340 plus tax and shipping. or get an 80% lower and drill out the trigger well for off the books AR-15. Them 80% lower costs around $80 at gun shows.
I need a cost-effective but reliable AR for self defense duty out on the road. I don't want to carry my good rifles. I need something to throw behind the seats just in case.
What do y'all suggest?
Florida. Shocker!
Unpossible I tell you!
I think you're very reasonable in looking at the situation honestly. There are some people who are simply opposed to the idea. They are entitled to their opinions-which are nothing more than that-their opinions. Arguments can be made either way and have been.
Thinking that they are going to change someones mind on the Internet by appeals to authority and belittling folks isn't going to have the effect they were hoping for. Facts when well presented tend to be more persuassive.
+1 on all this. I echo the recommendation of a PSA build as a compromise between reliability and lost investment in the event of theft. I am sensitive to a previous posters concerns and I leave the "Molon Labe" stickers off my vehicle.
Let's try and keep this sinking ship on track.
OP here.
I didn't want to compromise on reliability. I figured if I needed a "truck gun," I'd need it very badly.
So today I bought a new Colt LE 6920. No compromise there, I trust.
300Blackout
02-10-19, 17:21
Ship, uprighted.
OP here.
I didn't want to compromise on reliability. I figured if I needed a "truck gun," I'd need it very badly.
So today I bought a new Colt LE 6920. No compromise there, I trust.
Maybe there is some way to store it or some device making it more difficult to steal it in the event of a car break in. Last thing I want is something of mine winding up on some crime scene
That's an even better solution than a used LE6920.
Maybe there is some way to store it or some device making it more difficult to steal it in the event of a car break in. Last thing I want is something of mine winding up on some crime scene
Absolutely, but if you lock your doors (which apparently many people do not) then it would have to be broken into and stolen. Same as if it was in your house. Therefore the onus lies with the CRIMINAL in that situation.
Example: I have a Glock 19 on my bedside stand. No kids, just my wife and I. If kids do come over it gets put up. If someone breaks into my locked home---i.e. they are committing a CRIMINAL act---and steal it then what they do with it isn't on me. Feel the same way about my vehicle, which I ALWAYS lock, without fail.
joedirt199
02-10-19, 20:33
We have lots of reports of stolen guns from vehicles where people claim to be religious about locking their vehicles but there are no signs of forced entry. Best way to keep you gun from being stolen is to bring it in over night. Less likely to get stolen in a parking lot during the day. No reason it has to stay in the vehicle permanently.
Stolen guns used in crimes only fuel the gun grabbers as that is one of the only means for criminals to get armed. Most get traded for drugs.
Our sheriff's truck was broken into and a shotgun was taken. Needless to say a memo went out that we were all to remove our guns after duty. Most are locked in trunks or stored in back compartments of suv's. Just a broken window or a screwdriver away from getting a very nice AR and other goodies. St louis county patrol cars were getting hit as well since they get to take them home like we do. Set good examples of firearm ownership.
ViniVidivici
02-10-19, 21:04
There is no reason to leave any gun, long gun or pistol, in a vehicle overnight. Locked or not, that weapon is NOT secure, unless you drive a Wells Fargo armored truck. Or have a solid garage.
Hell, even then, I'd bring it in.
Good choice OP.
Hammer_Man
02-10-19, 22:35
The technology to replicate and transmit the codes needed to disarm and unlock your vehicle exists, and it is very much in the hands of theives. All they need is a laptop, a transmitter, and a software program to gain access to your vehicle. A clone of your key fob can also be made if you leave your keys unattended.
+1 on all this. I echo the recommendation of a PSA build as a compromise between reliability and lost investment in the event of theft. I am sensitive to a previous posters concerns and I leave the "Molon Labe" stickers off my vehicle.
If “lost investment” is your primary concern about your gun getting stolen vs what a crook is going to do with and who they are going to do it to, if is time to seriously re-think your priorities.
While it never pays to advertise, the fact is a vehicles get burglarized regularly and are is not secure storage for a firearm (or anything else). In my area vehicle burglaries out pace residential burglaries by a factor of ten.
There is no reason to leave any gun, long gun or pistol, in a vehicle overnight. Locked or not, that weapon is NOT secure, unless you drive a Wells Fargo armored truck. Or have a solid garage.
Hell, even then, I'd bring it in.
Good choice OP.
So what about the handgun I have on my nightstand in the bedroom? Should I go unlock the gun room every morning before work and put it away? Same as a vehicle in my eyes: if it's locked (be it house or vehicle) and it's broken into then it's on the CRIMINAL, not me.
Lots of nanny-ish types in here. If someone wants to keep a rifle in their vehicle then so be it, sheesh.
grizzlyblake
02-11-19, 08:09
So what about the handgun I have on my nightstand in the bedroom? Should I go unlock the gun room every morning before work and put it away? Same as a vehicle in my eyes: if it's locked (be it house or vehicle) and it's broken into then it's on the CRIMINAL, not me.
Absolutely. Most likely it's some teenage wannabee thugs that are looking for Playstations and cash, but hit the jackpot when they snag your unsecured pistol. And everything done with that gun from that point forward is 100% on you for leaving it out and accessible.
If you truly think you will have someone break into your house at night knowing you're inside, or attack your car while you're out riding to Aldi, do you really not think it's that much more likely that those same people would break into your house and car once they see you're gone to steal your gun?
I have a hard time following the logic that says I might need to shoot my way out of a car jacking or break in but once I'm not around the threat just goes away. Logic says if an area is bad enough that you may get in a spontaneous gun fight it's bad enough that there are people around to steal your stuff.
Lots of nanny-ish types in here. If someone wants to keep a rifle in their vehicle then so be it, sheesh.
It's really disheartening, and one reason why we are losing quite honestly. We have met the enemy, and he is us.
grizzlyblake
02-11-19, 10:20
I wouldn't call it nannying, at least my opinion on it, just be responsible for your stuff if you're going to have dangerous stuff. Like don't leave your Rx weed lollipops out for the step kids to eat while you're at work.
Do what you can to keep your nice gat out of little Jamarious and his buddies hands so that I don't have to worry about having to shoot little Jamarious when I'm changing my flat tire on the side of the road in the middle of the night and they roll up in an old Caprice with a bunch of stolen RIS clone 6920s.
ETA: If I ever get gunned down it had better be with a totally illegal full auto AK that came over in a shipping container through the port of Miami. If some little thuglet gets the drop on me with a DDM4V5 with a Vortex Sparc with no battery that he stole from Mike the accountant's house I'm going to be a very restless soul in the afterlife.
This thread has changed my mind. I see the light.
I now actively encourage people to get rifle racks and pack em tight with QUALITY M4s. Furthermore, I think everyone should put the most oorah, hooah, hooyah motivational and Pro 2A stickers on your truck so people won't confuse you for Antifa.
This thread has changed my mind. I see the light.
I now actively encourage people to get rifle racks and pack em tight with QUALITY M4s. Furthermore, I think everyone should put the most oorah, hooah, hooyah motivational and Pro 2A stickers on your truck so people won't confuse you for Antifa.
Funnily enough back in 50s and 60s we were able to do just that, and few people locked their trucks or cars when parking in town. Rifle rack with a shotgun or lever gun and couple fishing poles was pretty common sight. It was inconceivable that someone would steal a gun from your truck or the truck itself. My how times have changed for the worse.
Funnily enough back in 50s and 60s we were able to do just that, and few people locked their trucks or cars when parking in town. Rifle rack with a shotgun or lever gun and couple fishing poles was pretty common sight. It was inconceivable that someone would steal a gun from your truck or the truck itself. My how times have changed for the worse.That was a common sight in my High School parking lot in the early 80s.
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
grizzlyblake
02-11-19, 11:17
It's all fun and games until those fancy red dot Glocks end up on tha streetz and the boyz are able to start making hits holding them thangs sideways.
ETA: If I ever get gunned down it had better be with a totally illegal full auto AK that came over in a shipping container through the port of Miami. If some little thuglet gets the drop on me with a DDM4V5 with a Vortex Sparc with no battery that he stole from Mike the accountant's house I'm going to be a very restless soul in the afterlife.
Ha! Ok that was funny.
ViniVidivici
02-11-19, 13:00
So what about the handgun I have on my nightstand in the bedroom? Should I go unlock the gun room every morning before work and put it away? Same as a vehicle in my eyes: if it's locked (be it house or vehicle) and it's broken into then it's on the CRIMINAL, not me.
If I were you, yes, I would do that every time.
Our rule around here is simple: weapons are either on you, in direct conrtol-in the same room with you, or in the safe.
Remember what they taught us, soldier. We're both free to do what we want now, of course.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-12-19, 11:11
Our laws in Tennessee help promote "truck guns". What I mean is... It's legal for Tennesseans without a carry permit to have a loaded handgun in the vehicle. While out and about the gun must remain in the vehicle when parked for the obvious reason that it's unlawful to carry without a permit.
When I was a young man I lived in a cheap apartment in a not so great part of town. I didn't have a big heavy steel safe bolted down to the apartment floor. At the time I figured that leaving my rifle in the trunk of the car was ultimately safer, particularly when considering being seen toting it in a case (or even wrapped in a blanket) back and forth from the apartment to the car.
It's an imperfect world. I'm now in my 60s and look back at a lot of things that were less than perfect, and many today.
Requires near zero effort to put the windows up, lock doors, keep valuables out of sight and no firearms related stickers on the vehicle. Highly recommend it.
ViniVidivici
02-12-19, 12:37
Before I owned a safe, we would tear weapons down into parts and spread them to the winds within the dwelling.
Guitar case = incognito rifle case.
MorphCross
02-12-19, 13:34
Guitar case = incognito rifle case. Guitar is as good as any other high dollar item for thieves and burglars and it has the advantage of being even less traceable than a firearm.
Best thing you can do if you have an apartment would be one of the many low key backpacks that are actually rifle packs. Duffel bags as well. Next up would be baseball equipment bags or racquet bags with cheap brand patches or stickers associated with the sport.
Igloo wheeled coolers make great range boxes and as long as you don't overfill them they are not cumbersome.
... low key backpacks that are actually rifle packs. Duffel bags as well. Next up would be baseball equipment bags or racquet bags with cheap brand patches or stickers associated with the sport.
Igloo wheeled coolers make great range boxes and as long as you don't overfill them they are not cumbersome.
well-used diaper bags with children's cartoon characters all over it
That was a common sight in my High School parking lot in the early 80s.
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Same here, very common sight at my high school.
Absolutely. Most likely it's some teenage wannabee thugs that are looking for Playstations and cash, but hit the jackpot when they snag your unsecured pistol. And everything done with that gun from that point forward is 100% on you for leaving it out and accessible.
If you truly think you will have someone break into your house at night knowing you're inside, or attack your car while you're out riding to Aldi, do you really not think it's that much more likely that those same people would break into your house and car once they see you're gone to steal your gun?
I have a hard time following the logic that says I might need to shoot my way out of a car jacking or break in but once I'm not around the threat just goes away. Logic says if an area is bad enough that you may get in a spontaneous gun fight it's bad enough that there are people around to steal your stuff.
BULLSHIT
Nice libtard talking points.
It's really disheartening, and one reason why we are losing quite honestly. We have met the enemy, and he is us.
You are correct.
I wouldn't call it nannying, at least my opinion on it, just be responsible for your stuff if you're going to have dangerous stuff. Like don't leave your Rx weed lollipops out for the step kids to eat while you're at work.
Do what you can to keep your nice gat out of little Jamarious and his buddies hands so that I don't have to worry about having to shoot little Jamarious when I'm changing my flat tire on the side of the road in the middle of the night and they roll up in an old Caprice with a bunch of stolen RIS clone 6920s.
ETA: If I ever get gunned down it had better be with a totally illegal full auto AK that came over in a shipping container through the port of Miami. If some little thuglet gets the drop on me with a DDM4V5 with a Vortex Sparc with no battery that he stole from Mike the accountant's house I'm going to be a very restless soul in the afterlife.
Tango Foxtrot Bravo.
It's all fun and games until those fancy red dot Glocks end up on tha streetz and the boyz are able to start making hits holding them thangs sideways.
You should check your gun-owner card. You put the blame on a legal gun-owner for having his LOCKED shit STOLEN by CRIMINALS.
You and David Hogg should do some videos.
If I were you, yes, I would do that every time.
Our rule around here is simple: weapons are either on you, in direct conrtol-in the same room with you, or in the safe.
Remember what they taught us, soldier. We're both free to do what we want now, of course.
Gotcha, but my high-dollar, uber-stuff is locked up in the gun room. I have a couple handguns throughout the house that I'll be damned if I'm going to collect up, lock up, and then redistribute every time I come and go. It ain't feasible. I ALWAYS lock my doors (vehicle or house) and therefore the blame, if broken into, is on the CRIMINAL and only the CRIMINAL.
If my property is locked, all blame lies on the criminal.
If my property is locked, all blame lies on the criminal.
That is exactly my point but apparently there are some here who disagree with that notion. Criminals aren't criminals because they're bad people, it's because YOU allowed them to be. :rolleyes:
thopkins22
02-14-19, 19:01
That is exactly my point but apparently there are some here who disagree with that notion. Criminals aren't criminals because they're bad people, it's because YOU allowed them to be. :rolleyes:
I’m always thrown off by that thought you’re alluding to(I realize it’s not your opinion.) I believe in responsible gun ownership in the sense that if children are going to be in my home I lock and secure everything. I use a safe for most of my collection because I don’t want to lose them to fire or thieves...but not everything.
I also don’t buy the concept that I bear any responsibility for crimes committed with something that was stolen from me. It’s the same thought process that says “yes you won’t do anything bad with it, but someone will so you need to give it up.”
I have lockbox in my vehicle, and if someone cuts through it with an angle grinder or has a breaker bar and the correct socket to unbolt it...they’ve earned it and frankly being in public made it harder than in my safe at home hidden from the street. But even if I didn’t?
It’s very much the equivalent of “your honor...look at what she’s was wearing. I mean, what was I supposed to do?”
grizzlyblake
02-14-19, 19:46
Damn dude, take a break, switch to decaf.
Why the bullheadedness on securing your stuff properly? If some 13 year old can skip class, and smash and grab the Glock you left out on your nightstand in 5 minutes it's not really locked up.
Maybe just keep your heater in your pants or the safe where only you can access it.
I don't really follow the overplayed bravado about leaving loose guns around.
Damn dude, take a break, switch to decaf.
Why the bullheadedness on securing your stuff properly? If some 13 year old can skip class, and smash and grab the Glock you left out on your nightstand in 5 minutes it's not really locked up.
Maybe just keep your heater in your pants or the safe where only you can access it.
I don't really follow the overplayed bravado about leaving loose guns around.
Perhaps he's a little annoyed at some of the reasoning seen here that you would expect to find at the Democratic Underground forum instead of this forum?
Just a guess.
thopkins22
02-14-19, 21:17
I mean, I do think there’s a moral and righteous argument for doing what you can do to prevent a criminal from easily stealing your firearm. But situations vary, and what’s right for me in some parts of the country may not apply to others.
Wanting a legal requirement or attributing blame for murders committed with that stolen firearm is different though.
grizzlyblake
02-14-19, 21:25
Yeah I never said anything about legal anything. I simply meant that I'd feel like a douchebag if I left a pistol loose that got swiped by a kid and used in a crime.
thopkins22
02-14-19, 22:22
Yeah I never said anything about legal anything. I simply meant that I'd feel like a douchebag if I left a pistol loose that got swiped by a kid and used in a crime.
Absolutely.
You should check your gun-owner card. You put the blame on a legal gun-owner for having his LOCKED shit STOLEN by CRIMINALS.
You and David Hogg should do some videos.
There are “real” locks and Locks which merely keep honest people honest. A car falls squarely in the latter category. Rights come with responsibilities.
On another note you would be surprised how many “locked” cars are actually not locked or were “believed to be” locked.
Morals aside the majority of the the crime guns recovered in my area are stolen out of vehicles. This matches my own professional experience.
A recent example: https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/man-caught-stealing-vehicle-fatally-shoots-good-samaritan
The suspect stole an unlocked car from a convience store then used the unsecured handgun left in the cars console to shoot and kill one of the good samaritans who followed him.
MorphCross
02-15-19, 00:49
Honest people are honest because they aspire to a personal moral code to be honest. Shitbags will be shitbags regardless of stumbling blocks put in the path of their shitbaggery. The example just highlights a shitbag that decided to escalate his crime from grand theft auto to second degree murder just so he can keep being a rotten shitbag free of prison. He could of just as easily used the car he had stolen to run the samaritan off the road.
Pretending the onus is ever on the law abiding to adjust our way of life to beat the lowest of the low in society is a crock of horse shit.
Perhaps he's a little annoyed at some of the reasoning seen here that you would expect to find at the Democratic Underground forum instead of this forum?
Just a guess.
Essentially, yes.
Damn dude, take a break, switch to decaf.
Why the bullheadedness on securing your stuff properly? If some 13 year old can skip class, and smash and grab the Glock you left out on your nightstand in 5 minutes it's not really locked up.
Maybe just keep your heater in your pants or the safe where only you can access it.
I don't really follow the overplayed bravado about leaving loose guns around.
I quote from your previous post: And everything done with that gun from that point forward is 100% on you for leaving it out and accessible.
If you don't see the problem with that statement then I can't help you.
joedirt199
02-15-19, 06:30
I was in one of our gun stores looking for some powder, while in uniform, when I heard a guy bitching about our department not finding his stolen gun out of his car yet. I heard where he lived and it is a nose in the air lake subdivision where people think their gates and paid unarmed security guys keep them safe from criminals. He couldn't figure out how we hadn't found his gun yet. I wanted to set him straight but in today's society, cops are on the defense about their behavior, be it good or bad. So I just gave him time to vent then walked behind him so he could see me. He believes his gun is sitting in a pawn shop just waiting for us to walk in and spot it. The public has very little clue how criminals work. That gun is traded to a drug dealer for heroin or sold to a fellow kid for god knows what. Even if it is sitting in a pawn shop they know who the pawn guys are that know how to deal in back door goods and he is not going to put it on the shelf or add it to the pawn brokers database that we use to search for stolen items. Dopers are dumb but nut dumb enough to use their state id to sell a gun to a pawn broker. I learned this when meth heads were stealing tools from work sights and taking them to pawn shops. Most people don't keep serial numbers written down or mark their tools with identifiers so it becomes really hard to prove this is your dewalt sitting on a shelf full of dewalts.
grizzlyblake
02-15-19, 06:31
Pretending the onus is ever on the law abiding to adjust our way of life to beat the lowest of the low in society is a crock of horse shit.
That's literally word for word is why we carry guns every day. Shitbags gonna shitbag so we adjust accordingly to minimize the amount of shit that blows back on ourselves and our families.
I quote from your previous post: And everything done with that gun from that point forward is 100% on you for leaving it out and accessible.
If you don't see the problem with that statement then I can't help you.
Take the all the emotion out of it for a second. If a kid shoots someone with your gun because it was easy to get to, that's literally because you didn't lock it in a safe where he couldn't get to it to begin with. It's just a simple logistical fact, not some ethical stance.
Like multiple cops have said throughout this thread most of their recovered crime guns are stolen like that so I just cannot understand why someone would knowingly not take steps to minimize more of that activity.
It doesn't matter. Nobody is going to agree in this thread, and thugs are going to keep stealing guns from houses and cars until the end of time so everybody just rock on.
grizzlyblake
02-15-19, 06:43
You know, maybe where I live has a lot to do with how I think about this. I live way out in the sticks, like where they don't deliver pizza, so when my house is unmanned it's unmanned. I have an alarm system but that's really only to wake me up in the middle of the night so that doesn't matter.
In NW GA in my area there are plenty of hillbilly white trash meth heads around. I had to deal with a situation at the one gas station out here the other night where a young cute girl was getting gas and some shoeless meth head came up and tried to get up on her and pissed on himself while he made her watch. Weird shit. Dude got away but the girl was pretty messed up about it.
Anyway, when I roll out of my place I know it's going to be free range (except for my builder grade big glass window entry doors yay) for any bored methbilly to knock over. They could take their time and microwave popcorn while they peruse my wares. If I left a spare G19 out on my nightstand and one of those idiots took it to go rob the gas station or whatever I'd be pissed because I was the reason that chain of events would be set in motion. Like literally I gave that shitbag the power to go do bad things just because I was lazy.
Maybe if I lived downtown ATL and knew my Glock would just end up over in Vine City I wouldn't care, but that's not the case.
We have to determine what is appropriate in our own circumstances.
I left my truck (too big for the garage) unlocked once and found it had been rifled through over night in a decent neighborhood a few years ago. They went through the glove box and console - what do you think they were after?
I have friends with home security camera footage showing a car rolling slowly up the street while a kid on each side checks every car to see if it is locked. They live in developments with $300k + houses in Alabama.
Someone here said lock your doors, don't have gun signs on the car, and keep valuables out of sight. That's the best advice while you are out and about during the day. I personally will not leave guns in a car/truck overnight unless its in a garage.
I may be naive, I don't feel the need to carry a rifle (or AR "pistol") for defense. I don't mind a bit if someone else does, but I hope they secure it when they are away from the vehicle.
Andy
"Take the all the emotion out of it for a second. If a kid shoots someone with your gun because it was easy to get to, that's literally because you didn't lock it in a safe where he couldn't get to it to begin with. It's just a simple logistical fact, not some ethical stance."
Didn't stop Adam Lanza.....
"Take the all the emotion out of it for a second. If a kid shoots someone with your gun because it was easy to get to, that's literally because you didn't lock it in a safe where he couldn't get to it to begin with. It's just a simple logistical fact, not some ethical stance."
Didn't stop Adam Lanza.....
If you have a mentally disturbed individual in your home, giving them the keys/combination to access the guns you have locked up is terminally stupid.
Andy
grizzlyblake
02-15-19, 07:25
No, I think the line of logic that some of these guys are using is that Lanza was a criminal, and since criminals gon' criminal, it's not up to his parent or whoever to secure those guns anyway. The "onus" isn't on them, it's on Lanza for doing the bad stuff, so just leave the guns out and let Jesus take the wheel.
If you have a mentally disturbed individual in your home, giving them the keys/combination to access the guns you have locked up is terminally stupid.
Andy
The kid killed his mother. So, you're saying if someone is willing to kill their own mother etc....that they wouldn't torture you/her- and here's some news- everyone breaks- it ain't like the movies- to get that information? So now your rule is- "If you know anyone who is mentally disturbed you can't own guns because they might get them"?
Again, it begins and ends with the individual. It's very simple without leading to absurd situations like the one I just described.
Take the all the emotion out of it for a second. If a kid shoots someone with your gun because it was easy to get to, that's literally because you didn't lock it in a safe where he couldn't get to it to begin with. It's just a simple logistical fact, not some ethical stance.
Oh, I thought it was because he had bad intentions inside. Thanks for letting me know its my fault.
Like multiple cops have said throughout this thread most of their recovered crime guns are stolen like that so I just cannot understand why someone would knowingly not take steps to minimize more of that activity.
Until cops themselves stop getting their guns stolen out of their personal vehicles, then maybe they can lecture us.
It doesn't matter. Nobody is going to agree in this thread, and thugs are going to keep stealing guns from houses and cars until the end of time so everybody just rock on.
Agreed.
The kid killed his mother. So, you're saying if someone is willing to kill their own mother etc....that they wouldn't torture you/her- and here's some news- everyone breaks- it ain't like the movies- to get that information? So now your rule is- "If you know anyone who is mentally disturbed you can't own guns because they might get them"?
Again, it begins and ends with the individual. It's very simple without leading to absurd situations like the one I just described.
I'm saying that in his case, his mom was an idiot.
That's literally word for word is why we carry guns every day. Shitbags gonna shitbag so we adjust accordingly to minimize the amount of shit that blows back on ourselves and our families.
Take the all the emotion out of it for a second. If a kid shoots someone with your gun because it was easy to get to, that's literally because you didn't lock it in a safe where he couldn't get to it to begin with. It's just a simple logistical fact, not some ethical stance.
Like multiple cops have said throughout this thread most of their recovered crime guns are stolen like that so I just cannot understand why someone would knowingly not take steps to minimize more of that activity.
It doesn't matter. Nobody is going to agree in this thread, and thugs are going to keep stealing guns from houses and cars until the end of time so everybody just rock on. You are correct on that point.
Okay, let's say you had surgery and have some Percocet in your medicine cabinet in your bathroom. Some jackass breaks in and steals them. He OD's or sells them to someone else who OD's. Is that your fault?
"Secured" as you mentioned in a previous post is, to me, making sure the minimum of precautions is taken to ensure that there would be no relative ease of being attained by someone not authorized to do so. Locking your doors (be it vehicle or home) is the most obvious.
I have a couple handguns here and there around the house for easy access if my home is invaded and I or my wife are not near the bedroom, like in the basement or such. What you suggest is that every time I leave, like to run up to get gas or go to the quickie-mart for beer, I need to go round them all up, unlock my gunroom, and put them all inside. Then when I get home I can go and do the reverse. Every time I leave my house. This is the real world man, not "Ideal World". Let's say some scumbag breaks into my LOCKED house when I'm gone and takes a sledgehammer to the cinderblock wall my gun room resides in. Is that my fault too? Where do you draw the line?
As far as a vehicle is concerned.....you drive to the local courthouse to file some papers or such. You can't legally carry into any courthouse I know of. So do you just leave your gun at home, since if your LOCKED vehicle is broken into it's your fault it got stolen? Or do you illegally carry into the courthouse (good luck with the metal detectors)?
Nope, we're going to have to agree to vehemently disagree I guess. LOCKED doors are, to me (and the law apparently), sufficient to make some miscreant breaching them guilty of a CRIME.
Okay, let's say you had surgery and have some Percocet in your medicine cabinet in your bathroom. Some jackass breaks in and steals them. He OD's or sells them to someone else who OD's. Is that your fault?
"Secured" as you mentioned in a previous post is, to me, making sure the minimum of precautions is taken to ensure that there would be no relative ease of being attained by someone not authorized to do so. Locking your doors (be it vehicle or home) is the most obvious.
I have a couple handguns here and there around the house for easy access if my home is invaded and I or my wife are not near the bedroom, like in the basement or such. What you suggest is that every time I leave, like to run up to get gas or go to the quickie-mart for beer, I need to go round them all up, unlock my gunroom, and put them all inside. Then when I get home I can go and do the reverse. Every time I leave my house. This is the real world man, not "Ideal World". Let's say some scumbag breaks into my LOCKED house when I'm gone and takes a sledgehammer to the cinderblock wall my gun room resides in. Is that my fault too? Where do you draw the line?
As far as a vehicle is concerned.....you drive to the local courthouse to file some papers or such. You can't legally carry into any courthouse I know of. So do you just leave your gun at home, since if your LOCKED vehicle is broken into it's your fault it got stolen? Or do you illegally carry into the courthouse (good luck with the metal detectors)?
Nope, we're going to have to agree to vehemently disagree I guess. LOCKED doors are, to me (and the law apparently), sufficient to make some miscreant breaching them guilty of a CRIME.
Why people insist on making this so hard I don't understand.
Do NOT start on knives at my house!! OK?let’s just not go there. ;)
I always use the best possible weapon i can afford.
IMO,.....this aint a place for a cheap weapon.
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