View Full Version : Supreme Court is 5 liberals, 4 conservatives
thepatriot2705
02-07-19, 23:26
Roberts is a liberal. He can not be trusted. Why do I say this? Look at the 5-4 ruling blocking Louisiana’s abortion restriction. How tf are we so close to losing our God given right to have firearms?
And God help us for tolerating abortion. 60+ million murdered since roe v wade.
Dr. Bullseye
02-07-19, 23:34
He is a Bush appointee. What did you expect from anything Bush? Roberts is a zero. Move on to new blood, RBG is just about dead.
MountainRaven
02-07-19, 23:58
It's a temporary block before the Supreme Court hears the full case in the fall.
He could wind up being another Souter. DC jacks people up,
Coal Dragger
02-08-19, 00:43
The Justices try to follow precedent. Roe is the law of the land by ruling, and that ruling is precedence.
I find abortion to be abhorrent outside of protecting the life of the mother, rape, incest, and severe deformities or defects. Even in those cases it’s a tragedy that it happens.
On the other hand most women who would kill their own offspring are probably unsuitable mothers, and mostly totalitarian leftists. So they’re self limiting their own political faction by killing the next generation before they’re born. If people I dislike want to not breed and contaminate my area with their idiot children who they’d raise poorly to be leftists, I can think of worse things.
They should still consider adoption, but silly selfish bitches are silly and selfish.
The Justices try to follow precedent. Roe is the law of the land by ruling, and that ruling is precedence.
I find abortion to be abhorrent outside of protecting the life of the mother, rape, incest, and severe deformities or defects. Even in those cases it’s a tragedy that it happens.
On the other hand most women who would kill their own offspring are probably unsuitable mothers, and mostly totalitarian leftists. So they’re self limiting their own political faction by killing the next generation before they’re born. If people I dislike want to not breed and contaminate my area with their idiot children who they’d raise poorly to be leftists, I can think of worse things.
They should still consider adoption, but silly selfish bitches are silly and selfish.
Along those lines, I look at the position of "anyone who supports abortion, should have been an abortion" and I agree. If my choices are to be born to drug addicted parents who live in trailer park hell, who will exploit me in every way imaginable, who will make their lifestyle my "normal" then all the same I think I'd prefer not to exist at all and never be born.
Being born, life, suffering, death...if given the choice that is a journey I'm only interested in taking if I'm surrounded by normal folks. Even if you have a great life, it's hard enough when your loved ones eventually die, the random tragedies that occur and the effort of trying to get what you need and take care of the things you need to take care of while trying not to do any of it at the expense of others. That is basically the middle class lottery and it's full of hardship.
If I have to start out being born to a crack addicted mother, I think I'd rather just be exempt from that experience altogether.
Moose-Knuckle
02-08-19, 05:41
Supreme Court is 5 activist judges, 4 constitutional scholars
There, I FIFY.
Business_Casual
02-08-19, 05:47
If my choices are to be born to drug addicted parents who live in trailer park hell, who will exploit me in every way imaginable, who will make their lifestyle my "normal" then all the same I think I'd prefer not to exist at all and never be born.
If I have to start out being born to a crack addicted mother, I think I'd rather just be exempt from that experience altogether.
What you leave out, with all due respect, is that a huge segment of the population believes that temporal existence is a brief flash compared to the eternity of the soul. Robbing God of fellowship with his creation in the hereafter is what some consider “taking the Lord’s name in vain.”
I’m just pointing out that there are two perspectives and that your nihilistic approach is not the only way to look at the situation, as well as the serious nature of the objections to abortion.
There, I FIFY. Re: 5 Activists and 4 Scholars.
Roberts is actually more of a Diva. 1 Diva, 4 Activists, 4 Scholars
Now if you were a SCOTUS Diva what two things in Americana would you want your legacy tied to such that it would live on for hundreds of years. Abortion and the 2A. I don't think Roberts cares what his decisions are as long as they place him on a pedestal.
Outlander Systems
02-08-19, 07:42
Daily reminder that if scientists find an amoeba on Mars it’s “life,” but a full-term baby is, “just some cells.”
Ive said before that I feel Roberts is obsessed with optics. He absolutely does not want leftist scholars to paint him as an “right wing activist” for posterity. If the balance of the court was opposite, he would have voted differently with Obamacare.
That is the case that I always go back too when I think of him. It should have been clear cut, but he invented a way to Constitutionally justify it despite the courts almost unanimous dismissal of commerce clause argument. He said it was a tax and therefore legal even though the Obama administration vehemently denied this. This was shocking to me.
That said, I still believe he will vote correctly on gun cases. I’m starting to think the Constitutionalist judges are concerned with the precedence being set by law makers in CA, NY, etc. The obvious goal is to make gun ownership so cumbersome and onerous as to gradually limit those wishing to exercise their right to self defense. Once they get overall ownership down below 20% they can try to amend the constitution and erase the 2nd Amendment. I think many on the court see this.
Averageman
02-08-19, 08:44
Ive said before that I feel Roberts is obsessed with optics. He absolutely does not want leftist scholars to paint him as an “right wing activist” for posterity. If the balance of the court was opposite, he would have voted differently with Obamacare.
http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/08/new-book-john-roberts-let-politics-sway-obamacare-ruling/
She writes that he initially voted with the four other conservatives to strike down the ACA, on the grounds that it went beyond Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. Likewise, he initially voted to uphold the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid. But Roberts, who kept the opinion for himself to write, soon developed second thoughts.
Biskupic, who interviewed many of the justices for this book, including her subject, writes that Roberts said he felt ‘torn between his heart and his head.’ He harbored strong views on the limitations of congressional power, but hesitated to interject the Court into the ongoing health-insurance crisis. After trying unsuccessfully to find a middle way with Kennedy, who was ‘unusually firm’ and even ‘put off’ by the courtship, Roberts turned to the Court’s two moderate liberals, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan. The threesome negotiated a compromise decision that upheld the ACA’s individual mandate under Congress’s taxing power, while striking down the Medicaid expansion.
The_War_Wagon
02-08-19, 08:49
Roberts is a liberal. He can not be trusted. Why do I say this? Look at the 5-4 ruling blocking Louisiana’s abortion restriction. How tf are we so close to losing our God given right to have firearms?
And God help us for tolerating abortion. 60+ million murdered since roe v wade.
His waffling gave us ShitbamaKare, too. :mad:
http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/08/new-book-john-roberts-let-politics-sway-obamacare-ruling/
She writes that he initially voted with the four other conservatives to strike down the ACA, on the grounds that it went beyond Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. Likewise, he initially voted to uphold the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid. But Roberts, who kept the opinion for himself to write, soon developed second thoughts.
Biskupic, who interviewed many of the justices for this book, including her subject, writes that Roberts said he felt ‘torn between his heart and his head.’ He harbored strong views on the limitations of congressional power, but hesitated to interject the Court into the ongoing health-insurance crisis. After trying unsuccessfully to find a middle way with Kennedy, who was ‘unusually firm’ and even ‘put off’ by the courtship, Roberts turned to the Court’s two moderate liberals, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan. The threesome negotiated a compromise decision that upheld the ACA’s individual mandate under Congress’s taxing power, while striking down the Medicaid expansion.
If true, how can that be construed as upholding the law?
Averageman
02-08-19, 09:28
If true, how can that be construed as upholding the law?
It simply cannot be upholding the Law, it's upholding a potential legal "Legacy" for people to read about in the future and go, "Damn, that Roberts was not only a man of the people, he was really unoffensive when it came down to his rulings."
WTF?
If in the middle of doing what is right and making the hard decisions, you suddenly feel the need to lick a finger to figure out which way the wind is blowing, well, you're likely not going to be able to make those hard decisions.
After the Obamacare debacle I assumed someone had some serious dirt on Roberts, now I see it was likely Roberts throwing us under the bus because what is right means far less than what is right for Roberts potential "legacy."
If people stopped fornicating and women started open carrying there would be no rape.
Actually... a LOT of abortions are buyers remorse.
I think in a way...like...pregnancy should be a consequence on a philosophical level.
There was a time when like lifelong marriages were predicated on “doing right by the first piece I ever got”
Now I support super late term abortions. Like, if your kid is 18 and just not humaning the right way; the parents should legally be able to shoot his ass. Like...Lamondre is out boosting cars or robbing. Well....prison is full so...just..deal with it.
Conception to 17=safe
18+= Folks get to shoot him at home
It worked in olden times...
The Justices try to follow precedent. Roe is the law of the land by ruling, and that ruling is precedence.
I find abortion to be abhorrent outside of protecting the life of the mother, rape, incest, and severe deformities or defects. Even in those cases it’s a tragedy that it happens.
On the other hand most women who would kill their own offspring are probably unsuitable mothers, and mostly totalitarian leftists. So they’re self limiting their own political faction by killing the next generation before they’re born. If people I dislike want to not breed and contaminate my area with their idiot children who they’d raise poorly to be leftists, I can think of worse things.
They should still consider adoption, but silly selfish bitches are silly and selfish.
The problem is many of these women use abortion as an excuse for poor self discipline. Specifically, educated, privileged liberal women. They see the doctor when they are young, wild and irresponsible but after they settle, these same women tout their maternal wisdom with mommy blogs, social activism for leftist ideology (Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense) and perpetuate the idea of abortion as the ultimate expression of feminist power. They may slaughter their own in their 20’s but they do spawn later on down the road. It’s a form of virtue signaling- they think they can atone for “the toughest decision ever” by being super moms.
I bet you guys all loved Roberts during Heller and McDonald.
Point is, he is unreliable. He has ruled to help us with 2A issues, I consider this a trade off. Plus, if SCOTUS decides to take the case we don't know how it will be ruled. Further, it won't be ruled on until early 2020 which means that we have all of 2019 for RBG to die.
Abortions aren’t a sign of female power. It is a weakness. A weakness of men. A weakness of women. A weakness of society.
Yes, exactly. As I see it, leftist thinking really is an expression of fear, self doubt and weakness. It is a cry for big government to provide the bubble, the comfy blanket, the assurance of protection for a society that doesn’t want to grow up and shoulder the burden of adulthood, ie, self reliance.
That said, I still believe he will vote correctly on gun cases.
I don't trust his judgement for a second.
Averageman
02-08-19, 10:45
I bet you guys all loved Roberts during Heller and McDonald.
Point is, he is unreliable. He has ruled to help us with 2A issues, I consider this a trade off. Plus, if SCOTUS decides to take the case we don't know how it will be ruled. Further, it won't be ruled on until early 2020 which means that we have all of 2019 for RBG to die.
I don't trust his judgement for a second.
If my earlier linked article is correct, I don't believe we can expect his judgement or thought process to be stable or in tune with the Constitution on anything.
If his "Legacy" means more than the Constitution, we're screwed.
http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/08/new-book-john-roberts-let-politics-sway-obamacare-ruling/
In this article Roberts is to have said;
"I took that position not because I agree with Obamacare, but because Congress in 2017 decided to set the mandate penalty to zero while maintaining the rest of the law. Of course, Congress had taken no such action clarifying its intent on the law at the time of the ruling in NFIB v. Sebelius."
If the current lawsuit represents judicial activism, asking judges to take an action that Congress explicitly declined to embrace, then Roberts’ 2012 decision to uphold the individual mandate represents an act of judicial cowardice, running for cover and hiding rather than taking the decision that the law requires.
What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports is he thinking? The problem with Obamacare was multi faceted. It's not only a .gov mandated purchase, there was a tax penalty if you refused to purchase it.
I bet you guys all loved Roberts during Heller and McDonald.
Point is, he is unreliable. He has ruled to help us with 2A issues, I consider this a trade off. Plus, if SCOTUS decides to take the case we don't know how it will be ruled. Further, it won't be ruled on until early 2020 which means that we have all of 2019 for RBG to die.
Being unreliable is not good. That's not to say he need be a shill for one party. Also not to say he should make 'trade offs' based on party. Unreliable means to me he is sort of like a stopped clock that starts to run occasionally. You just never know what it will do and if it's right.
How much would you like to bet Grizberg has no DNR. I would almost bet there are orders to "keep her comfortable" until Trump is gone. I'm beginning to think 2020 is even more important now for SCOTUS than 2016 was. Basically Roberts has captured the court. .... and I'm pretty sure he has no love for Trump.
Granted this case needs to go to the lower court first but the rest of the Roberts situation still exists.
sundance435
02-08-19, 10:57
Temporarily enjoining a state from enforcing a law is nothing new and Courts throughout history, regardless of their "political" bent have done it often, and then still rule that the law is constitutional. Also, Roberts didn't give us Obamacare, the Executive and Legislative branches did and a true "constitutionalist" will give great deference to decisions made by the Legislature, whether we like them or not. True strict-constructionists believe that courts don't make law (as the Founders intended) - sometimes that cuts both ways. That said, I don't take it for granted at all that Roberts will hold one way or the other.
To me, a court that is unpopular to some degree in both camps is doing it right.
RE: Abortion. Honestly, I don't care from a political perspective. You either value life or you don't. Ain't gonna legislate that belief system into or out of existence for most people. Just like I don't need the government to tell me that unjustified homicide is bad or not.
Dr. Bullseye
02-08-19, 11:19
Now, the Court has shifted and moved the the Right with its majority. This means Roberts at the courts head, has no real power anymore. All his moves to the Left are just a balancing act designed to make him more important. One more appointment on the Right after RBG dies and Roberts fades into obscurity.
sundance435
02-08-19, 13:24
Now, the Court has shifted and moved the the Right with its majority. This means Roberts at the courts head, has no real power anymore.
I could write a lengthy reply, but, basically, you're completely wrong - historically, and about Roberts. First, math - 4/4 and Roberts is the new swing vote AND gets to choose who writes the opinion if it's 5-4. Second, why do you think Earl Warren was considered one of the most powerful people in America, if the chief justice lacks "real" power.
Three factors make me hopeful he will vote correctly on gun issues...
1) he did before ...twice
2) the 2nd Amendment protects a core human right ...not a new entitlement
3) he knows how his Obamacare decision has been discussed in posterity. He is aware those stories posted in this thread are widely known. He looked like a sellout.
Being unreliable is not good. That's not to say he need be a shill for one party. Also not to say he should make 'trade offs' based on party. Unreliable means to me he is sort of like a stopped clock that starts to run occasionally. You just never know what it will do and if it's right.
How much would you like to bet Grizberg has no DNR. I would almost bet there are orders to "keep her comfortable" until Trump is gone. I'm beginning to think 2020 is even more important now for SCOTUS than 2016 was. Basically Roberts has captured the court. .... and I'm pretty sure he has no love for Trump.
Granted this case needs to go to the lower court first but the rest of the Roberts situation still exists.
To me it looks like when it comes to cases of freedoms he will err on the side of freedom. That's why we got Heller and McDonald. He may consider access to abortion a freedom issue as well. You can argue that the child doesn't have his or her freedom protected by the may feel that the law in question restricts the woman's freedom. Just a wild guess. I know.
To me it looks like when it comes to cases of freedoms he will err on the side of freedom. That's why we got Heller and McDonald. He may consider access to abortion a freedom issue as well. You can argue that the child doesn't have his or her freedom protected by the may feel that the law in question restricts the woman's freedom. Just a wild guess. I know.
That actually sounds reasonable and if he could be counted on to err on the side of freedom I could live with that. It seems though that his Obamacare ruling was anti-freedom in nature. But... granted the 2A and Abortion are not in the same 'freedom realm' as health care / insurance. They are really two different type animals in that regard.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-08-19, 20:41
While Roberts gives me the willies, isn't this a potential win? If the pass on it, it becomes law. If they take and rule on it, they can actually move the goal posts.
I try to steer clear of abortion-related subjects. People become too emotional.
But I will say this:
Rape pregnancy, incest pregnancy, deformity to brain/spinal cord I do not object to abortion.
But the 9-month and then abort? NO. That is not an abortion, and should not be permitted under the law.
I am done with this subject, and will not reply to agitators.
Peace/out.
It's sad indeed that the sins of the parents are taken out on the little ones. Aborting a "rape" or an "incest" or "deformed" baby is still murdering an independent human being made in the image of God. The propensity for people to play God never seems to subside...its one of our greatest sins. Our hearts are hard,very hard.
It's sad indeed that the sins of the parents are taken out on the little ones. Aborting a "rape" or an "incest" or "deformed" baby is still murdering an independent human being made in the image of God. The propensity for people to play God never seems to subside...its one of our greatest sins. Our hearts are hard,very hard.
And that view is always why abortion will be legal. We advocate that women get guns to defend themselves from attackers, but if they fail you want to condemn them to carry their attackers child? Do you know how completely life altering that would be?
It sickens me that irresponsible people use abortion as birth control, especially late term. But NOBODY should be forced to endure a pregnancy they did not participate in and rape isn't consent. If you want to save those babies, make sure they never happen and go kill a rapist.
And if your god really felt strongly about this, maybe instead of participating in the daily miracles of his followers, he could make sure rapists can't find victims. I'd rather see that than a little divine intervention to help Timmy make the baseball team.
It's an odd plan where your god permits millions of babies to starve to death every day in famine plagued areas, to allow abusive parents to beat them to death, to allow all manner of illness, including cancer to strike them when they are completely defenseless and it's simply "your gods will", but when a predatory piece of human shit rapes a woman, it's completely immoral for her to get rid of the baby or prevent the fertilized egg from becoming a viable embryo?
And what if I shot the rapist and prevented the rape? Is that me "playing god"? When the state executes a death row inmate, is that the state "playing god"? If we define property and engage in property ownership, isn't that "playing god."
But please do me a favor, continue to advocate complete opposition to abortion, even in cases of rape, incest or serious deformity. State plainly that a 13 year old girl who was raped by her own father should have to carry that baby to term. It is probably the single greatest insurance that in those sad events, the victim isn't victimized a second time.
This will come as a shock to some of you, but what God wants or approves doesn't come in to play in court.
Literally every pro-life person starts off with "God...."
Separation of church and stste ring a bell to anyone??
This will come as a shock to some of you, but what God wants or approves doesn't come in to play in court.
Literally every pro-life person starts off with "God...."
Separation of church and stste ring a bell to anyone??
I think most argue abortion from a moral standpoint.
As for the “separation of church and state” ...this is one of the most misunderstood concepts in American Constitutional discussions. I’d bet, if polled, 80%+ of people would think that is in the text of the constitution. It’s not. It’s from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote. At the time of ratification there were still states with official religions and religion was mentioned very frequently in political discourse of the day.
The second amendment was deamed necessary to protect the individual from government interference in their “god” given right of self preservation.
https://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/primary-source-documents/danburybaptists/
Adrenaline_6
02-09-19, 06:54
And that view is always why abortion will be legal. We advocate that women get guns to defend themselves from attackers, but if they fail you want to condemn them to carry their attackers child? Do you know how completely life altering that would be?
It sickens me that irresponsible people use abortion as birth control, especially late term. But NOBODY should be forced to endure a pregnancy they did not participate in and rape isn't consent. If you want to save those babies, make sure they never happen and go kill a rapist.
And if your god really felt strongly about this, maybe instead of participating in the daily miracles of his followers, he could make sure rapists can't find victims. I'd rather see that than a little divine intervention to help Timmy make the baseball team.
It's an odd plan where your god permits millions of babies to starve to death every day in famine plagued areas, to allow abusive parents to beat them to death, to allow all manner of illness, including cancer to strike them when they are completely defenseless and it's simply "your gods will", but when a predatory piece of human shit rapes a woman, it's completely immoral for her to get rid of the baby or prevent the fertilized egg from becoming a viable embryo?
And what if I shot the rapist and prevented the rape? Is that me "playing god"? When the state executes a death row inmate, is that the state "playing god"? If we define property and engage in property ownership, isn't that "playing god."
But please do me a favor, continue to advocate complete opposition to abortion, even in cases of rape, incest or serious deformity. State plainly that a 13 year old girl who was raped by her own father should have to carry that baby to term. It is probably the single greatest insurance that in those sad events, the victim isn't victimized a second time.
I get your frustration with the world and its cruelties, but that is not God's fault, it is ours. We had it perfect, we messed it up. After that...chaos. We are just reaping what was sowed. Leave God out of it. What you are seeking or asking for to happen is after this life. Until then, we all pay for it with sufferages. Without them though, there would be no "growth" or learning.
I dunno.
I have worked with special needs kids and am glad they exist. It isn’t easy for the parents and their lives will always be different.
Per rape, if I were a girl.... I don’t know how I would react. If I weren’t able to shoot him before getting overpowered and he had his way it would be unforgivable but at the same time the child isn’t responsible and would be part of me. I don’t know because I cannot get pregnant.
We can prevent rape by protecting our women and keeping them armed. In fact, I watched Extremities just last night.
I can say all these “ifs” but I will never be in that position. I am however at an age where I don’t care if it is accidental or not, the kid will live. And be welcomed.
But that’s just me.
[QUOTE=SteyrAUG;2705329]And that view is always why abortion will be legal. We advocate that women get guns to defend themselves from attackers, but if they fail you want to condemn them to carry their attackers child? Do you know how completely life altering that would be?
I'll go ahead and answer you even though I consider it a general waste of time. Your heart is one of the hardest on the board. Maybe more threads about the joys of 80's porn would make you happier. There may be others that are interested though. Whether abortion is legal in the future or not is not for me to know, I merely advocate for what is right according to my presuppositions. As hard as it is for you to understand, murdering a rape or incest baby, and that is what your advocating...MURDER...doesn't make it better for the woman, it just leaves a dead baby. I look at the situation as an extremely trying time for the woman to rise above her own self interest to the interest of a tiny defenseless person, an opportunity is given to her to show compassion, grace and mercy, to rise above the easy way out, not to do evil that good should come. The state's interest is to not sanction murder even in the most horrible of times.
It sickens me that irresponsible people use abortion as birth control, especially late term. But NOBODY should be forced to endure a pregnancy they did not participate in and rape isn't consent. If you want to save those babies, make sure they never happen and go kill a rapist.
On what basis why would it up set you? Your own subjective preferences? As long as they don't encroach on your life why would you care? You've already de-humanized rape, incest, and deformed babies as being OK to murder. Why not be consistent and allow others to de-humanize any and all unborn babies, making them fit for death, simply because the prefer that way. Again, the call I make is that the ENDS don't justify the MEANS. As terrible as rape or incest is it doesn't EVER justify MURDER.
And if your god really felt strongly about this, maybe instead of participating in the daily miracles of his followers, he could make sure rapists can't find victims. I'd rather see that than a little divine intervention to help Timmy make the baseball team.
Putting aside that Christians are to bring all our needs to God, even though they seem mundane and worthless to you, you assume that God should be busy running the world the way you wish it should be run. The pride of men shows almost no bounds. God has a purpose for evil in all it's manifestations, but your basic instinct is accuse Him and shake your fist at Him. Do it my way or screw you God. If there really was a God and He actually restrains evil so that it isn't as bad as it could be (because things could be FAR, FAR worse...RIGHT?)as Christian theology teaches, then the fact that there aren't millions of rapists but relatively few is indicative to me that there is a God and He is in fact restraining the evil of men. What you want is for God to do away with unrighteousness NOW, well God doesn't work according to your time table...He's still teaching His people about good, evil, grace, mercy, wrath, and judgement. But it is one of the great hopes of the elect that God will soon end it all.
It's an odd plan where your god permits millions of babies to starve to death every day in famine plagued areas, to allow abusive parents to beat them to death, to allow all manner of illness, including cancer to strike them when they are completely defenseless and it's simply "your gods will", but when a predatory piece of human shit rapes a woman, it's completely immoral for her to get rid of the baby or prevent the fertilized egg from becoming a viable embryo?
Simply put, we ALL deserve it, no one deserves anything good. God will have mercy on whom He will, but to say that God owes us something good is just the fruit of not taking stock of how really traitorous and wicked we really are. On top of that you lust after His power to have your own way with others...you lust after the ability to murder another (again you de-humanize) and sooth your conscience and tell yourself what a moral person I am...I want to help the raped, help them off the baby, it's just cell, it's really not a human being, it's for the best. You and others rationalize your wickedness to sooth that conscience until that conscience dies and is hard as granite.
And what if I shot the rapist and prevented the rape? Is that me "playing god"? When the state executes a death row inmate, is that the state "playing god"? If we define property and engage in property ownership, isn't that "playing god."
You can't be this dense? Life is a gift and God has made provision in His law that there is a huge distinction between JUST and UNJUST taking of life. In fact, according to God's law, rape is a death penalty crime, but we ignored that. It's playing God when we IGNORE His law and institute our own laws, as if we possess some innate wisdom in our almightyness.
But please do me a favor, continue to advocate complete opposition to abortion, even in cases of rape, incest or serious deformity. State plainly that a 13 year old girl who was raped by her own father should have to carry that baby to term. It is probably the single greatest insurance that in those sad events, the victim isn't victimized a second time.[/Q
And why would it be a favor to you? Is it not so you can point and say look at horrible Tom, what a POS he is? I have stated plainly what I believe ought to be the case. And It is my great hope that humanity will one day say that though a bad thing has happen to me that I will endeavor to not solve the problem with murder, but with love, mercy and grace. A woman doesn't have to look at a rape or incest baby as a second victimhood, but as a God ordained opportunity to show love to a tiny defenseless baby in the hardest of circumstances
This will come as a shock to some of you, but what God wants or approves doesn't come in to play in court.
Literally every pro-life person starts off with "God...."
Separation of church and stste ring a bell to anyone??
And you act as if man is God. What goes on in court is ALL about what is right and what is wrong, and those subjects are about what is moral, and morality or ethics is religion by other means. We just have different gods. When the "court" signed off on all the infringements on the 2nd, did you bow to your god, the court, or did you gnash your teeth, murmur that you would not submit.
And what is wrong with appealing to God, what should I appeal to, your made up, personal preferences?
I know why Jesus wept, Tom.
But you wouldn't like the answer
I dunno.
I have worked with special needs kids and am glad they exist. It isn’t easy for the parents and their lives will always be different.
Per rape, if I were a girl.... I don’t know how I would react. If I weren’t able to shoot him before getting overpowered and he had his way it would be unforgivable but at the same time the child isn’t responsible and would be part of me. I don’t know because I cannot get pregnant.
We can prevent rape by protecting our women and keeping them armed. In fact, I watched Extremities just last night.
I can say all these “ifs” but I will never be in that position. I am however at an age where I don’t care if it is accidental or not, the kid will live. And be welcomed.
But that’s just me.
Well I said serious deformity, not special needs.
As reality teaches us, we can "try" to prevent all rapes, but we aren't terribly successful, especially when it's the parents doing the raping. And if you were a girl and decided the child isn't to blame, then that would be your decision and everyone would have to respect it.
Suffice to say there are times when abortion is the is the least awful decision that has to be made in terrible times.
I'll go ahead and answer you even though I consider it a general waste of time. Your heart is one of the hardest on the board. Maybe more threads about the joys of 80's porn would make you happier. There may be others that are interested though. Whether abortion is legal in the future or not is not for me to know, I merely advocate for what is right according to my presuppositions. As hard as it is for you to understand, murdering a rape or incest baby, and that is what your advocating...MURDER...doesn't make it better for the woman, it just leaves a dead baby. I look at the situation as an extremely trying time for the woman to rise above her own self interest to the interest of a tiny defenseless person, an opportunity is given to her to show compassion, grace and mercy, to rise above the easy way out, not to do evil that good should come. The state's interest is to not sanction murder even in the most horrible of times.
First problem is I don't consider a fertilized egg a "baby" and neither do many other people. I understand you don't agree.
On what basis why would it up set you? Your own subjective preferences? As long as they don't encroach on your life why would you care? You've already de-humanized rape, incest, and deformed babies as being OK to murder. Why not be consistent and allow others to de-humanize any and all unborn babies, making them fit for death, simply because the prefer that way. Again, the call I make is that the ENDS don't justify the MEANS. As terrible as rape or incest is it doesn't EVER justify MURDER.
So if I see a father attempting to rape his 13 year old daughter and I shoot and kill him, do you also consider that murder? If so probably not much to discuss here.
Putting aside that Christians are to bring all our needs to God, even though they seem mundane and worthless to you, you assume that God should be busy running the world the way you wish it should be run. The pride of men shows almost no bounds. God has a purpose for evil in all it's manifestations, but your basic instinct is accuse Him and shake your fist at Him. Do it my way or screw you God. If there really was a God and He actually restrains evil so that it isn't as bad as it could be (because things could be FAR, FAR worse...RIGHT?)as Christian theology teaches, then the fact that there aren't millions of rapists but relatively few is indicative to me that there is a God and He is in fact restraining the evil of men. What you want is for God to do away with unrighteousness NOW, well God doesn't work according to your time table...He's still teaching His people about good, evil, grace, mercy, wrath, and judgement. But it is one of the great hopes of the elect that God will soon end it all.
Seems to me, you believe your god is capable of anything. So "I didn't allow most of them" sort of comes up short with me. Doesn't really matter, I don't really believe your god exists so I'm actually talking about the actions and consequences of men.
[B]Simply put, we ALL deserve it, no one deserves anything good.
If there really is a god, and that's what it's really like, I'd hate to spend eternity in his presence. I'd rather not exist at all.
You can't be this dense? Life is a gift and God has made provision in His law that there is a huge distinction between JUST and UNJUST taking of life. In fact, according to God's law, rape is a death penalty crime, but we ignored that. It's playing God when we IGNORE His law and institute our own laws, as if we possess some innate wisdom in our almightyness.
I don't think humans are anyone's special creation. I don't think all life has inherent value. If I could have killed Stalin or Hitler in the womb, the only thing that would make me hesitate is the possible unintended consequences of them having never existed and the possibility that somebody even worse would step into the void. I sorta wish Hitler had been accepted the the Vienna School of Art and that the Germans kept Lenin in jail.
And why would it be a favor to you?
Already answered, because the views held by you and others with similar views are so polarizing that abortion will always be there for things like risk to mother, rape, incest and severe birth defects. It's like people who advocate banning all guns, they really do demonstrate what is "at risk" should some people get their way.
I know why Jesus wept, Tom.
But you wouldn't like the answer
So now we are to speak to one another again? OK, Firefly, why did Jesus weep? Whether I like it or not, please make sure it's the truth.
First problem is I don't consider a fertilized egg a "baby" and neither do many other people. I understand you don't agree.
So if I see a father attempting to rape his 13 year old daughter and I shoot and kill him, do you also consider that murder? If so probably not much to discuss here.
Seems to me, you believe your god is capable of anything. So "I didn't allow most of them" sort of comes up short with me. Doesn't really matter, I don't really believe your god exists so I'm actually talking about the actions and consequences of men.
If there really is a god, and that's what it's really like, I'd hate to spend eternity in his presence. I'd rather not exist at all.
I don't think humans are anyone's special creation. I don't think all life has inherent value. If I could have killed Stalin or Hitler in the womb, the only thing that would make me hesitate is the possible unintended consequences of them having never existed and the possibility that somebody even worse would step into the void. I sorta wish Hitler had been accepted the the Vienna School of Art and that the Germans kept Lenin in jail.
Already answered, because the views held by you and others with similar views are so polarizing that abortion will always be there for things like risk to mother, rape, incest and severe birth defects. It's like people who advocate banning all guns, they really do demonstrate what is "at risk" should some people get their way.
And at the the end of all this unbelief....is the simple fact that a 8th month gestation rape, incest, and/or deformed baby can be murdered. I never expected you bow to anything I ever have or will say. But, your solution to hard situations is to kill, I'm looking for something else.
Well I said serious deformity, not special needs.
As reality teaches us, we can "try" to prevent all rapes, but we aren't terribly successful, especially when it's the parents doing the raping. And if you were a girl and decided the child isn't to blame, then that would be your decision and everyone would have to respect it.
Suffice to say there are times when abortion is the is the least awful decision that has to be made in terrible times.
I know what you meant. I'm just saying.
We actually agree.
All I know is that I cannot get pregnant and having seen....a lot. It isn't always an easy decision. I personally have known people who had an abortion for different reasons (too young, no support, serious complications) and absolutely all regretted it. But they regretted getting pregnant even more. And by serious complication one was essentially going to be stillborn and they needed it out. It was never going to term.
I look at it like....okay...a nuclear bomb. We don't want it every day. We don't want it as the first go to. But to totally remove it is silly.
Like suicide. If you are depressed, phone a friend. If you are a friend, pick up the phone.
But if you are seriously suffering from a terminal illness then it is unfair to make you stay or end yourself in a destructive manner just because it hurts an uninvolved busybody's feelings.
There is a LOT I wouldn't do, but wouldn't ban.
Like even if totally eradicating Islamic terror could be achieved by destroying every Koran....
I wouldn't do it. Because somebody took the time to write. And some people want to read it.
I loathe Communism but yet...wouldn't ban the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital. In fact, people SHOULD read it to know what the problem is.
I am for limiting abortion. I am for exhausting all options. I am for medical research for alternatives. But...I couldn't ban it despite how terrible it is.
I think mature sex education at an appropriate age is important. No cartoons. No low key egging on. Basically....
Sex is a HELL of a responsibility and if you are not properly equipped with knowledge then you could get sick, pregnant, or emotionally scarred. Males and Females alike are goaded by instinct but in this modern world....if you do something so fast, it does sort of cheapen it. There is emotionality at play. And we shouldn't judge.
It's wrong. Two or more trained professionals making love on a film are like to me stunt men in a war movie.
They allow us to see something we are curious about but in a detached safety.
Like...okay...a war movie. I like to see a visual interpretation of history or maybe just some one liners. We know that no matter how gory....they are actors. They got paid and had fun pretending for us.
But raising my hand in violence or holding people at gunpoint or deploying a weapon in anger has always left me physically ill afterwards regardless that it was my job.
I'm rambling a bit but the point is...
I actually understand.
Murder isn't a solution to anything ever.
And as for the court...again...to whom much is given, much is required.
I know what you meant. I'm just saying.
We actually agree.
All I know is that I cannot get pregnant and having seen....a lot. It isn't always an easy decision. I personally have known people who had an abortion for different reasons (too young, no support, serious complications) and absolutely all regretted it. But they regretted getting pregnant even more. And by serious complication one was essentially going to be stillborn and they needed it out. It was never going to term.
I look at it like....okay...a nuclear bomb. We don't want it every day. We don't want it as the first go to. But to totally remove it is silly.
Like suicide. If you are depressed, phone a friend. If you are a friend, pick up the phone.
But if you are seriously suffering from a terminal illness then it is unfair to make you stay or end yourself in a destructive manner just because it hurts an uninvolved busybody's feelings.
There is a LOT I wouldn't do, but wouldn't ban.
Like even if totally eradicating Islamic terror could be achieved by destroying every Koran....
I wouldn't do it. Because somebody took the time to write. And some people want to read it.
I loathe Communism but yet...wouldn't ban the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital. In fact, people SHOULD read it to know what the problem is.
I am for limiting abortion. I am for exhausting all options. I am for medical research for alternatives. But...I couldn't ban it despite how terrible it is.
I think mature sex education at an appropriate age is important. No cartoons. No low key egging on. Basically....
Sex is a HELL of a responsibility and if you are not properly equipped with knowledge then you could get sick, pregnant, or emotionally scarred. Males and Females alike are goaded by instinct but in this modern world....if you do something so fast, it does sort of cheapen it. There is emotionality at play. And we shouldn't judge.
It's wrong. Two or more trained professionals making love on a film are like to me stunt men in a war movie.
They allow us to see something we are curious about but in a detached safety.
Like...okay...a war movie. I like to see a visual interpretation of history or maybe just some one liners. We know that no matter how gory....they are actors. They got paid and had fun pretending for us.
But raising my hand in violence or holding people at gunpoint or deploying a weapon in anger has always left me physically ill afterwards regardless that it was my job.
I'm rambling a bit but the point is...
I actually understand.
Problem is, if people were capable of responsibility this wouldn't even be a discussion.
Worst case scenario, I knew a female who has had 5 abortions because she wouldn't practice the most basic birth control. And I don't mean the morning after pill, I mean a procedure because by the time she figured out she was pregnant the morning after pill thing wasn't an option. Her life was stir fried shit because she was completely irresponsible, amazingly uneducated and simply didn't care.
Bad as that is, I don't think I'd want to be one of her 5 kids and I'm sorta surprised she didn't have 5 kids because with little effort they could have translated into income for her, but she wasn't even responsible enough to become a welfare parasite.
And she comes from the same parents and background as her brother who is a cop and I think even he has personally arrested her a couple times. She's that much of a disaster.
Murder isn't a solution to anything ever.
And as for the court...again...to whom much is given, much is required.
Your god murdered millions of innocent babies that were already born, in an act of collective punishment because he was unhappy with the actions of his own creation. Start there with your "murder isn't a solution to anything ever" discussion.
Your god murdered millions of innocent babies that were already born, in an act of collective punishment because he was unhappy with the actions of his own creation. Start there with your "murder isn't a solution to anything ever" discussion.
So now we get to the heart of it...God's a murder. You evidently assume that God is unjust in what He does, that His reasons for taking life, and taking life on a grand scale sometimes are unjust in and of Themselves. That seems to be your a priori assumption. God couldn't possibly have a good reason for what He does. If it doesn't make sense to you, it must be nonsense. The Bible states it plainly....the wages of sin is death. It's a miracle that He just does kill, justly, the whole of humanity for it's treachery. Even little babies are tainted and guilty.
Also, in Christian theology there isn't some body of mysterious ethics that has existed apart from God co-eternal to Him. In Christian theology God's will itself is the standard. Whatever God does is by definition good, simply because He did it, it IS the definition of good since there is nothing higher than God and nothing existed before God. We Christians assert and believe that God is the creator and He can do with His creation as He pleases. I know this offends you, but unbelievers are always offended by such things. How dare God set the rules.
I dont want to get theological.
I never got to have a "liberal" phase.
I used to be pretty black and white, but I learned the world isn't grey. It is in full color and there aren't as many definitive answers as we like to think there are.
All I know is that I refuse to be like the people I despise: Loud, stubborn, and hateful.
I dont want to get theological.
I never got to have a "liberal" phase.
I used to be pretty black and white, but I learned the world isn't grey. It is in full color and there aren't as many definitive answers as we like to think there are.
All I know is that I refuse to be like the people I despise: Loud, stubborn, and hateful.
Is this your answer as to why Jesus wept? That it was all grey to Him? Or is there something else coming. And is this how you see me Fly? Is this your description of me? Of course you're not Loud, stubborn, or hateful are you? It's the publican over there. When I've told the gospel to people is that an act of hate or of love?
So now we get to the heart of it...God's a murder. You evidently assume that God is unjust in what He does, that His reasons for taking life, and taking life on a grand scale sometimes are unjust in and of Themselves. That seems to be your a priori assumption. God couldn't possibly have a good reason for what He does. If it doesn't make sense to you, it must be nonsense. The Bible states it plainly....the wages of sin is death. It's a miracle that He just does kill, justly, the whole of humanity for it's treachery. Even little babies are tainted and guilty.
Also, in Christian theology there isn't some body of mysterious ethics that has existed apart from God co-eternal to Him. In Christian theology God's will itself is the standard. Whatever God does is by definition good, simply because He did it, it IS the definition of good since there is nothing higher than God and nothing existed before God. We Christians assert and believe that God is the creator and He can do with His creation as He pleases. I know this offends you, but unbelievers are always offended by such things. How dare God set the rules.
I don't want to get sucked into your rabbit hole but reread some of what you wrote.
Is. 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these*things.
Before you preach, know who you are attempting to speak for. He explicitly says He creates evil.
He mellows out later in the New Testament.
Also, you are speaking for yourself. And kind of embarrassing yourself too with these tirades. I mean...have you actually sat down and read the Bible?
Or do you just use it as a club?
Digital_Damage
02-09-19, 19:05
Well this went exactly how I thought it would...
Not sure why this shit thread was even started.
yeah....I actually feek skeevy for even posting in it
I don't want to get sucked into your rabbit hole but reread some of what you wrote.
Is. 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these*things.
Before you preach, know who you are attempting to speak for. He explicitly says He creates evil.
He mellows out later in the New Testament.
Also, you are speaking for yourself. And kind of embarrassing yourself too with these tirades. I mean...have you actually sat down and read the Bible?
Or do you just use it as a club?
I'm well aware of the concept of Theodicy. Whether you believe or not I have and still do study about it and think about much. I know what the Reformed churches teach about Is. 45:7 and how they deal primarily with the relationship of God to evil and what my Confession of Faith, the Westminster says about this. So, yeah, Fly, I believe that the Bible teaches that God decreed evil, yet is not the doer of evil. So no, God doesn't murder when He judges and kills...like Noah's flood.
I speak to what I know, and to deny that I know many things from the Bible is to deny God's help and grace. The things I have spoken here to SA and to you are spoken by other Christians. I'm not speaking things that I just started believing 2 week ago but have studied and prayed about for 30 years. And, to put it back on you, the way you speak about God says what about you...that you take the Bible seriously? That you think God is holy and perfect in His ways? Have you actually read the Bible or the history of the church or the history of doctrine, or have you spent your time getting your talk down about 80's porn and how astute you are in it's finer points.
As for embarrassing myself...do you really think I take what you say about me seriously? Really?
P.S. It a war out there and sometimes a metaphorical club is needed. As for you and Steyr Aug I really do hope you both wind up in heaven. This isn't just sophistry for me.
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2019/02/killing-newborns.html
Maybe 5 of the justices on the SCOTUS are just sociopaths.
So now we get to the heart of it...God's a murder. You evidently assume that God is unjust in what He does, that His reasons for taking life, and taking life on a grand scale sometimes are unjust in and of Themselves. That seems to be your a priori assumption. God couldn't possibly have a good reason for what He does. If it doesn't make sense to you, it must be nonsense. The Bible states it plainly....the wages of sin is death. It's a miracle that He just does kill, justly, the whole of humanity for it's treachery. Even little babies are tainted and guilty.
Also, in Christian theology there isn't some body of mysterious ethics that has existed apart from God co-eternal to Him. In Christian theology God's will itself is the standard. Whatever God does is by definition good, simply because He did it, it IS the definition of good since there is nothing higher than God and nothing existed before God. We Christians assert and believe that God is the creator and He can do with His creation as He pleases. I know this offends you, but unbelievers are always offended by such things. How dare God set the rules.
You evidently assume all these abortions aren't part of that plan.
P.S. It a war out there and sometimes a metaphorical club is needed. As for you and Steyr Aug I really do hope you both wind up in heaven. This isn't just sophistry for me.
Thank you, but if there is an afterlife and the creator actually is the one you describe, I'd prefer to not exist at all anymore than spend eternity with your god.
You evidently assume all these abortions aren't part of that plan.
Evidently you're wrong. Of course I understand that everything falls out according to God's eternal decree and plan. Including the evil of abortion. I don't know the ultimate fate of these aborted person's, many may be in heaven, many in hell, God is the giver and taker of life and determines the means by which that life is taken or preserved. What I do know is what God has commanded men....don't murder.
Thank you, but if there is an afterlife and the creator actually is the one you describe, I'd prefer to not exist at all anymore than spend eternity with your god.
And I hope to be with Him for eternity...oh well.
MountainRaven
02-09-19, 20:51
It's sad indeed that the sins of the parents are taken out on the little ones. Aborting a "rape" or an "incest" or "deformed" baby is still murdering an independent human being made in the image of God. The propensity for people to play God never seems to subside...its one of our greatest sins. Our hearts are hard,very hard.
Per this...
I get your frustration with the world and its cruelties, but that is not God's fault, it is ours. We had it perfect, we messed it up. After that...chaos. We are just reaping what was sowed. Leave God out of it. What you are seeking or asking for to happen is after this life. Until then, we all pay for it with sufferages. Without them though, there would be no "growth" or learning.
God is still punishing His children for the sins of great-great-grandparents dead long before His Word was ever put to paper.
...is He punishing us for His sin?
Per this...
God is still punishing His children for the sins of great-great-grandparents dead long before His Word was ever put to paper.
...is He punishing us for His sin?
What would be "His" sin?
Tom no offense but I find this discussion amusing since I’m the past you have basically said it’s the woman’s marriageable duty to submit to her husband in the bedroom so trying to take the high road on abortion falls a bit flat.
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Tom no offense but I find this discussion amusing since I’m the past you have basically said it’s the woman’s marriageable duty to submit to her husband in the bedroom so trying to take the high road on abortion falls a bit flat.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Actually it's the duty of both the husband and the wife to summit to each other in this regard, and the husband can't just do as he pleases with his wife in the bedroom. I've never said that husbands are some sort of defacto tyrant of his wife.
And even though you think I'm falling flat, that doesn't mean that my arguments about abortion are wrong. There's millions of Christians making these arguments. And I know I'm not liked here.
I dont go to my AME church and blab about mt F-awesome gun stash so why do you preach on a gun board where people are either really Right Wing or Libertarian and either already oppose abortion or don't necessarily oppose it but feel it is abused and should be reserved for special cases.
You're just turning people off. And then call them "God-Haters" No. People just don't like having a Bible shoved up their ass over everything. Some people here are atheists and while I am not an atheist; I do try to be respectful of their belief or lack thereof.
Switch to decaf, dude
Adrenaline_6
02-09-19, 22:18
God is still punishing His children for the sins of great-great-grandparents dead long before His Word was ever put to paper.
...is He punishing us for His sin?
No, just ours. Think of it like this...God creates a perfect pool for us, it meets all needs and is perfect... his only rule is "no one takes a crap in the pool". Eventually we crap in it anyway. It is no longer perfect and can never be perfect again. We crapped in it...all done. It doesn't matter that 4, 10, 1000 generations pass, that crap is still there and there is nothing as humans that we can do to make it perfect again. Worse, we continually keep crapping in the pool. We are dirty as soon as we enter the pool.
Heaven is perfect and clean, no one dirty enters. God, through his grace and mercy offers One way to be clean and one way only. Take it or leave it. The other option is not just non-existence, it is eternal damnation. Take your pick.
I dont go to my AME church and blab about mt F-awesome gun stash so why do you preach on a gun board where people are either really Right Wing or Libertarian and either already oppose abortion or don't necessarily oppose it but feel it is abused and should be reserved for special cases.
You're just turning people off. And then call them "God-Haters" No. People just don't like having a Bible shoved up their ass over everything. Some people here are atheists and while I am not an atheist; I do try to be respectful of their belief or lack thereof.
Switch to decaf, dude
You go to an AME church? OOOKKKAAAYYY. And me and some of the guys at my church do talk about guns among many other things, so what? I talk to guys here about other things and don't always bring up God, but it is my life and you're not the boss of things are you? I would have been just fine if you hadn't started talking to me Fly, you could have continued to regale all the bros with your lust of AOC and trannies, and when you felt like it you could shoot out there some goofy, probably, blasphemous tidbit about God, that the nature of GD. Just so you know I don't consider myself Right-wing or especially libertarian, oh we may have this or that in common, but I have HUGE differences with both and I've talked once in while about that. And murder is murder even in those special cases. So far I'm the only one that thinks those things here, that's my unique perspective I suppose.
As for turning people off, maybe, Jesus and His Apostles turned a lot of people off too, got them all murdered or banished. I'm really not trying to turn people off, but just simply tell the truth, but lots of people reject the Bible and it's truth, and I wasn't the one that said that people were God hater's, that would be God/Christ that said that first. I didn't bring up the Bible Fly, I merely spoke some principles out of it, that's because I'm a Christian and I no more shoved the Bible up their ass than they shoved their atheism up mine, grow up man, I merely disagreed. Did you not shove up my ass your puerile and evil "discussion" on porn? And how am I being disrespectful of the atheist? Did I call them names? And why on earth should I respect atheism anyway...does God? What I do respect is that even they or the worst criminal for that matter are made in the image of God and on that alone are due respect as God's image bearers. That means I tell them the truth, I uphold their name and person, I don't slander them, I don't steal from them, or murder them. The simple fact is you seem to be uncomfortable with all this God talk, I'm not, I love it.
thopkins22
02-10-19, 00:59
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/famine
My post wasn’t nice. Believers and the rest of us alike can do better. It is a remarkable luxury that we can be as upset as we are, while images like these are still being made.
Fly, got to admit, he's right.
As far as the porn goes, it is a big problem for Christians of all Denominations. Every Promise Keepers conference I've gone to at some point zeroes in on it's hold on many Christians.
Omnipotence is ignoring this because someone however many thousands years ago broke a rule? It should pain your heart to think such a thing. https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/famine
I’m not convinced that a just God would give one little shit about a collection of cells some woman can’t afford to care for in a decent fashion...and instead would condemn to hell every single person on the planet who has the means to have a computer and who isn’t actively helping these kids.
thopkins - that such things exist is man's fault, not God's. The bounty the Earth produces is enough to sustain each one of those starving children, that the resources aren't shared is man's problem, not God's.
In terms of condemnation, sin has condemned us all, belief in the Risen Savior and acceptance of God's Grace is what saves us. We all have free will - if more of us used that free will to share God's bounty with others, we could virtually end world hunger.
I believe the poor and the afflicted will always be among us, simply because they are an opportunity for us to show our Faith. When more of us begin to get that right, the world will be a better place.
Fly, got to admit, he's right.
As far as the porn goes, it is a big problem for Christians of all Denominations. Every Promise Keepers conference I've gone to at some point zeroes in on it's hold on many Christians.
I dunno. Why is it okay to watch people getting blown up or shot but not people making out?
That always baffles me.
Some dude cut down with an assault rifle is just dandy but two adults in the throes of passion is not?
Meh...
Like I cannot remember the movie but there was this old 50s picture where some dudes wife finds out he has a kid in Krautland and she calls him on it and he sits her down and says “I went over there as a boy to kill other boys and that’s fine but having a child is wrong?”
We just disagree. And that is fine
And this guy chastises me for not knowing the scriptures. This is me holding my head in despair. I'll get back to this one a bit later if the whole thing is still here.
And this guy chastises me for not knowing the scriptures. This is me holding my head in despair. I'll get back to this one a bit later if the whole thing is still here.
We got a saying. Don’t drag people into court if you don’t know the law. You always always always want to bring up religion, or your interpretation thereof, into a common forum of discussion and then play victim when someone throws it back at you.
It’s silly volunteer martyrdom that nobody asked for and nobody cares about. It’s what turns threads sour and ugh.
Please don’t be in such a rush to beat me over the head with your King James there, Kirk Cameron
We got a saying. Don’t drag people into court if you don’t know the law. You always always always want to bring up religion, or your interpretation thereof, into a common forum of discussion and then play victim when someone throws it back at you.
It’s silly volunteer martyrdom that nobody asked for and nobody cares about. It’s what turns threads sour and ugh.
Please don’t be in such a rush to beat me over the head with your King James there, Kirk Cameron
Your the one who wanted to scripture whip me, with pointing out I didn't know the meaning of Is 45:7...right Fly???? Look at my thread on the mountain lion attack, or my posting in the Civil war thread or my posting in the CZ thread, no mention of the bible or God....right Fly??? And now your defending the use of porn as moral, all the while your blathering on about your religiosity. You have got to be one of the most self unware people I've come across. I doubt seriously there is a Christian on the website that would uphold the use of porn as moral and AOK with Almighty.
Outlander Systems
02-10-19, 14:43
Porn is absolutely degenerate af.
Porn is absolutely degenerate af.
Et Tu?
I will just recant on my deathbed.
It will suck when St Peter says “whoa there, sport. All them terabytes of Bailey Jay did you in”
“But but Bible study....I-I believed...”
“Mmmhmmm yeah. I hear it all the time. Boo hoo.”
“But I found that little girl’s puppy and helped that old lady cross the street.”
“Oh yeah? So did Hitler.”
“I WANNA SPEAK TO YOUR SUPERVISOR!”
“So does every starving orphan in Africa. Oh look. Here they come now”
“Hey! Hey! That kid was just gunning down fellow Congolese in a civil war! He shot like fifty dudes with an AK!”
“Yeah, but he knew not of Bailey Jay. He was ignorant to your degeneracy. Those late Friday nights of Sabrina the Teenage Witch and Skinemax didn’t do you any favors either.”
“This is bullshit!”
“No. This is Heaven”
*Sparta kicked into Hell. Burns.*
Happy now?
Digital_Damage
02-10-19, 16:18
Anyone that claims they are absolutely right about what is written in fictional text is a fool...
I will state this....
Christianity is the only major religion that has so many different secs... you should all think about that for a little bit
Anyone that claims they are absolutely right about what is written in fictional text is a fool...
I will state this....
Christianity is the only major religion that has so many different secs... you should all think about that for a little bit
Always good to know that the fool who claims the Bible is fiction wasn't actually there when it was written. But hey, press on in your nihilistic wasteland to the promised land of a good and meaningless death and obscurity.
Always good to know that the fool who claims the Bible is fiction wasn't actually there when it was written. But hey, press on in your nihilistic wasteland to the promised land of a good and meaningless death and obscurity.
AMEN!
Always good to know that the fool who claims the Bible is fiction wasn't actually there when it was written. But hey, press on in your nihilistic wasteland to the promised land of a good and meaningless death and obscurity.
In all fairness, sir, you weren't there either.
You do know Jesus was black though, right?
Digital_Damage
02-10-19, 16:36
Always good to know that the fool who claims the Bible is fiction wasn't actually there when it was written. But hey, press on in your nihilistic wasteland to the promised land of a good and meaningless death and obscurity.
Do be careful with those rocks... it is hard to get glass out of the eyes.
In all fairness, sir, you weren't there either.
You do know Jesus was black though, right?
Definitely not Aryan. I figure kind of a swarthy complexion. I'd be okay with Black, hopefully someday we will all be the same color. Less problems. There, I said it, out loud, on the internet.
In all fairness, sir, you weren't there either.
You do know Jesus was black though, right?
But then I believe the eye witness accounts of the men who were there and wrote about Him. Not to mention the non-believers who actually wrote about this fellow names Jesus who started this religious movement in Palestine. Maybe you can tell me about the other 12 guys in ancient history who wrote about some other guy who claimed to be God knowing it was all a lie, but nevertheless decided that they should all just die horrible deaths or be banished to islands for life for the known lie. I'll wait.
Jesus was black eh. No actual description of Him is given in the Bible other than he was a Jew in the line of David. Jews are Semitic if I'm not mistaken, so I would think He isn't black like MLK was black and he isn't white like english ancestry Tom is, but is of a more olive complexion of todays Semitic, middle eastern folk. Even if He was black, so what? I try not to make mental images of Him anyway, and don't believe in Him because I think He's white.
Definitely not Aryan. I figure kind of a swarthy complexion. I'd be okay with Black, hopefully someday we will all be the same color. Less problems. There, I said it, out loud, on the internet.
Maybe we finally won't care about race at all.
Do be careful with those rocks... it is hard to get glass out of the eyes.
From the guy throwing rocks.
Hair like lambs wool, skin like burnt copper... Just saying. And no, he wasn't of David's lineage at all. His mother came from Galilee...a place of slavery and poverty for all but elites.
And if we accept that Mary may have been partially Arab, if not Kurdish, then technically Jesus was Aryan per the historical demography. Just not the blond caucasian malapropriation of the term.
Digital_Damage
02-10-19, 17:33
on this day TomMcC ate poo.....
Now just to wait 1000 years and it will be accepted by a large population as fact.
Voodoochild
02-10-19, 17:34
Knock off the bickering and religious slamming. Only warning.
Hair like lambs wool, skin like burnt copper... Just saying. And no, he wasn't of David's lineage at all. His mother came from Galilee...a place of slavery and poverty for all but elites.
And if we accept that Mary may have been partially Arab, if not Kurdish, then technically Jesus was Aryan per the historical demography. Just not the blond caucasian malapropriation of the term.
Read Matthew's and Luke's genealogies. Joseph was His legal, earthly father. More than likely per the tradition of that day Joseph would have taken his bride Mary from his own tribe making her a descendant of David also.
The rest is highly speculative, so I won't comment. The Latino brethren used to joke about all the Norwegian hippy pictures of Jesus floating around. I agreed with their complaint on 2 accounts. 1. There was a high probability they were inaccurate and 2. It's a violation of the 2nd commandment.
Hair like lambs wool, skin like burnt copper... Just saying. And no, he wasn't of David's lineage at all. His mother came from Galilee...a place of slavery and poverty for all but elites.
And if we accept that Mary may have been partially Arab, if not Kurdish, then technically Jesus was Aryan per the historical demography. Just not the blond caucasian malapropriation of the term.
Before Blavastky reinvented what an Aryan was in the late 19th century, they were Hindu and hardly had blond hair and blue eyes.
Maybe we finally won't care about race at all.
One could hope.
Hair like lambs wool, skin like burnt copper... Just saying. And no, he wasn't of David's lineage at all. His mother came from Galilee...a place of slavery and poverty for all but elites.
Fly, the very first seventeen verses in Matthew go through the genealogy. Then there is 2 Samuel 7 verse 11ish -
“‘The Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me[b]; your throne will be established forever.’”
Adrenaline_6
02-11-19, 08:32
Now just to wait 1000 years and it will be accepted by a large population as fact.
Maybe...or this...
The Day of the Lord
1 Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2 I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
<<<The ugly reality is this>>>
The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
*I hope you and others like you, come around, because no one deserves this, not even our enemies.
Sounds like a sober straight forward assessment of the situation by a man who actually witnessed the resurrection of the promised messiah. But men love death and darkness.
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