View Full Version : Glock Kabooms? Not what you think
I was on a different board where handgun reliability came up. Of course everyone jumped on the Glock 40sw Kabooms but one guy insists that the local department had 45 and 9mm Kabooms. Never heard of that one before. Tried googling and all I get is the 40sw results.
Guy says it was the next department over from his. Not saying it didn't happen but find it highly unlikely. Sounds like one of those things where you heard it from someone who heard it from his cousin's step father's in-law best friend!
Still though, I'm curious. Was there ever such a thing?
I've seen a few pistols of all makes go kaboom over the years.
By kabooms I'm talking primarily of case head separations which vent through the lower part of the pistol, primarily the mag well.
I'm sure that you know that the .40 Glocks have a lot of case head web area unsupported which combined with the pressure of the .40 cartridge led to most of the kabooms over the years - especially with brass on the 3rd trip through the reloader.
The 9mm's and .45's don't generally have the same problems. Most of the kabooms with those are more ammo related. The first thing I'd ask your buddy is whether the PD's in question are using reloads.
If they are, it is often hard telling how many times the case has cycled through the loader.
In the case of police agencies using Glocks, you can see how the problem gets transferred to the 'Glock.'
Another thing you might ask your buddy to find out - who paid to replace the pistols?
I'm sure that you know that the .40 Glocks have a lot of case head web area unsupported which combined with the pressure of the .40 cartridge led to most of the kabooms over the years - especially with brass on the 3rd trip through the reloader.
This, but I'll add that later production Glock 40's have better support. I've shot plenty of new ammo and my reloads through my G23 and have not once seen a case with the "Glock smile" on it. Most 40S&W pistols that were originally developed as 9mm's have some lack of case support. Also, 40S&W cases now have much better case web support than they did in the beginning. Basically, I don't view this as a problem unless you shoot reloads that contain compromised cases. If you reload and find a case that has a bulge at the web, simply toss it. Lee actually makes a die to remove these bulges. I'm pretty tight when it comes to money, but I can't figure out why some people think that getting rid of this clue that the case has been compromised is worth the risk.
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/attachments/upload_2017-10-23_16-4-46-jpeg.399934/
As you probably know, Glock tightened up 6'oclock support around 2009.
I've seen a couple KB case blowouts in 9mm Glocks. (Post '09 G26 gen 3's) Both times reloads of unknown origin.
Had a buddy have a KB case blowout in a pre-09 G35. Reloads of unknown origin. Lost the extractor and spring in that one, too.
In tens of thousands of rounds fired by co-workers/buddies and I, I have been fortunate enough to have never seen a 9mm Glock KB with military issued ammo (+P-ish) or commercially loaded ammo. My experience with 9mm Glocks only started around 2005.
Sounds like hearsay.
ETA: I know basically nothing about the .45 models, so I can’t speak to that.
I've seen 3 Glock Kabooms.
All of them were from issued Glock .40 S&W and all were 180 grain loads from different manufacturers. All 3 happened post election 2008.
Now i'm not a huge Glock fan, though I own a few as part of my cop gun collection, IMHO the problem wasn't the firearm as it was QC issues with ammo production at the time when sales were through the roof due to Obama's election and .mil orders getting priority over civilian and LE sales.
dwhitehorne
02-08-19, 18:18
The first thing I'd ask your buddy is whether the PD's in question are using reloads.
I would bet this is the bases of 99 percent of LE kabooms. Cheap bean counters ordering manufactured ammo to save. Who know how many times that brass has been reloaded. David
I had a relative just Kaboom! his Glock 22, .40 S&W.
Moncarch PPU headstamp FMJ 180 grain. He'd fired probably 2500 rounds of the same stuff with nary a problem. Then, Kaboom! I saw the case; classic Glock head blowout.
Glocks also Kaboom! in .45 ACP and 10mm.
I don't like Glocks, anyway. My M&P has the correct grip angle, and its chamber is fully supported.
I've experienced kbs, and seen the aftermaths of many more. Majority were .40 and within a range of time. There were less .45s, and even less 9mms. Majority were Glocks, but there were others too. Like "brass to face", it is something created by a combination of variables and conditions, not something inherent in a make or model of gun, nor a particular ammo sku.
The "kaboom" was frequent enough with some combinations of variables that a couple of places had highly refined processes to deal with it.
I've experienced kbs, and seen the aftermaths of many more. Majority were .40 and within a range of time. There were less .45s, and even less 9mms. Majority were Glocks, but there were others too. Like "brass to face", it is something created by a combination of variables and conditions, not something inherent in a make or model of gun, nor a particular ammo sku.
The "kaboom" was frequent enough with some combinations of variables that a couple of places had highly refined processes to deal with it.Ok, so at least it is a possibility. There's so much shit floating around about Glocks, mostly from people with a bias. I've heard Glock mags melting to the frame in hot weather, which is why BP doesn't carry them! [emoji849]. So this .... especially the 9mm.... sounded like more of that
I had a relative just Kaboom! his Glock 22, .40 S&W.
Moncarch PPU headstamp FMJ 180 grain. He'd fired probably 2500 rounds of the same stuff with nary a problem. Then, Kaboom! I saw the case; classic Glock head blowout.
Glocks also Kaboom! in .45 ACP and 10mm.
I don't like Glocks, anyway. My M&P has the correct grip angle, and its chamber is fully supported.How do you feel about the Luger or the HK P7 grip angle?
I had an m&p kaboom with tula .40.
The gun was undamaged. Case blew out the back, similar to the casing shown in post 3 by bret, but it split.
Business_Casual
02-09-19, 07:33
I've seen a few pistols of all makes go kaboom over the years.
My only kaboom was a 45 ACP in a Wilson Combat 1911.
I've seen 3 Glock Kabooms.
All of them were from issued Glock .40 S&W and all were 180 grain loads from different manufacturers. All 3 happened post election 2008.
Now i'm not a huge Glock fan, though I own a few as part of my cop gun collection, IMHO the problem wasn't the firearm as it was QC issues with ammo production at the time when sales were through the roof due to Obama's election and .mil orders getting priority over civilian and LE sales.
I was on an email list for Glock owners prior to 2000 and .40 kabooms were a thing then too. I recall 180gr being the alleged source of most, if not all, of the kabooms.
The assumption was 180gr was on the ragged edge of safety from a pressure level standpoint and the Glocks .40's back then had gaping chambers compared to other .40 pistols on the market.
Never owned one, but it was interesting to pull a 22/23 barrel out and watch a factory .40 roll around in it versus doing the same with a 17/19 from the same time frame considering both cartridges operated at roughly the same pressure.
Administrative reloads were brought up as a cause back then too. I assume other calibers exhibit similar characteristics, but one of the gun magazines published a chart on .40 seating depths vs. Pressure (can't recall if it was actually measured or if it was a program that calculated) and it didn't take much "set back" to get the pressure through the roof.
I took my 9mm Masterpiece Arms Defender shooting last weekend. FYI, it's actually one of the most accurate pistols that I've ever shot. Anyway, I had seen a video on YouTube of a guy bump firing one, so I decided to see if I could do the same with mine. It bumped fired pretty well. However, it cycled so fast that it sounded more like one loud continuous bang than a fast string of bangs. When we were done I picked up my brass and found a few that I fired out of battery.
https://i.postimg.cc/90sgxjbb/Defender-bump-fire.jpg
Fortunately, the cases contained the pressure. Needless to say, I won't press my luck by bump firing it again.
I would bet this is the bases of 99 percent of LE kabooms. Cheap bean counters ordering manufactured ammo to save. Who know how many times that brass has been reloaded. David
I recall my Police Academy we fired Atlanta Arms lead round nose 9mm in our S&W 5906's. Didn't have any KB's, though.
Most of the guns ran really well, too. Maybe one or two bad apples if I recall.
My opinion of the gun was far higher at the end than it was at the beginning.
The construction of 40 brass has also gradually been improved since inception of the cartridge.
Early Winchester cases had little to no radius joining the inner wall of the case to the head. I would commonly find indications of the wall tearing away from the head of the case. Headstamp is WINCHESTER 40 S&W. Newer brass marked WIN 40 S&W has better construction.
Other ammo makers had some issues too but the Winchesters were the ones I found most often.
Here is photo of the inside of an old-style Winchester case that has started tearing:
55959
The crack is large enough that a narrow strip of aluminum foil could fit into the gap.
halfmoonclip
02-13-19, 23:30
Not the vaguest notion of how many times my 9mm brass has been thru' the press, tho' I have quite a lot of it, so the joy is spread around.
How many reloadings were supposed to be involved in the .40 kabooms? I've avoided them for this and other reasons.
Moon
Not the vaguest notion of how many times my 9mm brass has been thru' the press, tho' I have quite a lot of it, so the joy is spread around.
How many reloadings were supposed to be involved in the .40 kabooms? I've avoided them for this and other reasons.
Moon
My one and only Kaboom came about 6 years ago with a G22. Reloaded 40 S&W. The case was making its third turn around the block including when new. No one to blame but myself.
I'm aware of one Glock 21 Kaboom that happened to a local police officer. He was shooting gunshow, garbage reloads. Unfortunate but that's what happened.
Not the vaguest notion of how many times my 9mm brass has been thru' the press, tho' I have quite a lot of it, so the joy is spread around.
How many reloadings were supposed to be involved in the .40 kabooms? I've avoided them for this and other reasons.
Moon
I never went through the exercise of trying to see how many loadings 40s will take.
I think it greatly depends on the casing design and how well the gun supports it. Some of the severely bulged cases seen in this thread would explain why I don't think 40s survive all that long.
I guess if they were shot in a S&W 610, most of them would last quite a while.
Meanwhile, the 9s I shoot rarely split so they last until they get lost.
45 go a long time.
In other peoples' guns, it might be different.
halfmoonclip
02-14-19, 23:03
Yeah, I've never experienced a problem with 9mm brass, other than flat wearing out and cracking. When WalFart had 100 rounds @ $13, a lot of it followed me home.
A shooting buddy was deeply dubious about the .40 for a lot of reasons, the kabooms and smileys among them, so I never messed with them.
.45s aren't any more expensive to reload, and I've stayed with them for a .40-something.
What does drive me nuts are gunshops selling rookies .40s because they're 'better' than a 9...and recoil more, and cost more to feed, but the shop wanted rid of the .40 because they're harder to sell. So it goes.
Moon
I have reloaded many thousands of rounds of .40 for Gen 2/3/4 Glocks and never have seen the widely touted case bulge. I size with a regular sizing die, no need for bulge buster dies. I also reload thousands of 9mm and .45 for Glocks and see no difference between the cartridges or ones fired in non-Glocks. I have had reloading buddies who competed with .40 Glocks who reloaded thousands per week and also never had a problem with cases.
Not saying it never happens to others but the case bulge and weakening is not a given, I think only under some circumstances.
I reload .40 cases like all my other handgun calibers: reload until case cracks at neck or shows sign of starting to split. These are normal case wear failures and not catastrophic by any means. I do not see a need to count times reloaded for any handgun case. I do tend to stay with mid-range loads like I do for all other calibers, and never over book maximum. Pushing max pressures all the time with any cartridge has to be harder on the gun and greatly reduces the margin of error from so many combined factors.
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