View Full Version : new 870 Vs. Old 870
Would it be smarter to buy an old style 870 with the tougher internals or just get a new one?
Where is a good spot on the net to get 870's, specifically the Police Model?
Thanks.
Either way you will be fine. Even the Express models, in my opinion, are a better option than anything else.
If I had me preference, I would look for a well used Police or Wingmaster, comb through it for any issues, and run it.
I just picked up 4 NC SBI Remington 870 Police Magnums that are in great shape, obviously the SBI doesn't use their shotguns much. I am raffling 2 of them off for the FOP fund , and selling one and keeping one. Let me know if your interested.
It's not so much new vs. old 870, but Express vs. Wingmaster and Police models.
The Express models have cheaper internals, but still pretty durable. They also have a plastic trigger guard (not bad in of itself), dimples in the mag tube (you need to modify these to mount an extended mag tube, unless you buy the Express HD model that has the extended mag tube already), and a matte blue finish that kinda sucks.
The Wingmaster models have the better internals and fancy polishing, but are similar to the police models in the realm of quality. Polished blue finish, nice wood stocks
The Police models are made in a special section of the Remington factory, and are made to a stricter standard than the Express models. QC is better. Internals better, proper mag tube (no dimples), and has a parkerized finished. Wood stocks or synthetic stocks available.
I think that the Police models are the best buy of the bunch for defense purposes. You can probably find one for not that much more than an Express model (particuarly when you are talking about the Express Home Defense models vs. the Police models
The "Tactical" series (discontinued, were finished in dark green) and Marine Magnums are gussied up Express models.
Can't help you on where to buy. Can tell you that I'm pretty satisfied with my Express model, but if you can snag a lightly used or new Police model for a good price...get it instead)
There are some differences between the older guns and the newer ones, even within the Wingmaster/Police lines. For example, I have an older Wingmaster and the trigger guard is made of what appears to be machined aluminum. I also have a newer Police model and the trigger guard is made of powdered metal. It's still "metal" but I'd much rather have the older aluminum piece if I had the choice.
There are some differences between the older guns and the newer ones, even within the Wingmaster/Police lines. For example, I have an older Wingmaster and the trigger guard is made of what appears to be machined aluminum. I also have a newer Police model and the trigger guard is made of powdered metal. It's still "metal" but I'd much rather have the older aluminum piece if I had the choice.
Gawd I hate MIM parts...didn't know about that change...
Gawd I hate MIM parts...didn't know about that change...
I don't believe the newer metal trigger guards are MIM. I recall reading that they are made from "compressed metal," which I take to mean some sort of powdered metal process.
It "smells" like a cheaper method, but I don't have enough knowledge of the process they use to say for sure whether the part is less durable than the old ones. Some powdered metal parts processes actually yield parts with some advantages for their application and can be quite strong.
I've heard that all newer Police models are coming with the plastic trigger guards. Don't know if that's accurate or not but it would make sense if Remington was trying to cut costs/standardize.
Huh....
Well...we've seen that plastic ain't all bad. The trigger guard on my 870 Express seems to be pretty darn tough...
In theory, the older units are built better. No doubt. But in practice, how many plastic trigger guarded, mim'd internal 870's are sold, vs issues you've read about. I've never owned either, but I've always kept my eye out for an 870police.
I need an education on this police model thing,I thought first of all that if remington they all are wingmaster.and second some have a P before or after the ser#. I have three that are police models(I thought) one has Ill state police burnt in the stock.I guess any one could do that.one has a stamp on the receiver with a badge and lettering LVL dept of police. and one I think the ser# in blue book said police model.so I'm kinda confused
anybody out there an authority on this stuff I would like to know what I have .they are all older and one showsthe marks from the old style holders in patrol cars on the pump.
just wondering how ya really tell.other than if a cop had it it was a POLICE MODEL
thanks for any info
citizensoldier16
11-26-08, 19:16
There were many different models of the 870 design offered during it's 58 year run thus far. The most common of the current models are listed below. Keep in mind, there are variants in each category:
Express: base model, less expensive. Parkerized finish with wood or synthetic stocks. Single bead sight at muzzle. Accepts 2 3/4" shells only. A true "sport-utility shotgun".
Express Magnum: same as above, but accepts 2 3/4" as well as 3" magnum and high-brass shells. Same Parkerized finish.
Express SuperMag: same as above, but also accepts 3 1/2" high-brass magnum shells. (ouch)
Wingmaster: Smooth blued finish, usually with some sort of inlay and finer quality wood. Wood was stained as well as heavily varnished and polished for a mirror finish. Sights are two beads (one large on the muzzle, one smaller near the receiver). Accepts 2 3/4" and 3" shells.
Police: Same as Express Magnum, but with high-luster blued finish instead of Parkerized. Innards are the same, but the receiver is made from slightly harder steel to accommodate constant magnum loads and the increased pressures created by LEO and LTL (bean-bag) rounds. Synthetic stock is standard. Factory-installed wood stocks are rare in the 870P. Magazine tube is threaded to accept the addition of magazine extension tubes. Accepts 2 3/4" and 3" shells.
Sources: Remington's website, and The Remington Society of America (http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/870)
Police: Same as Express Magnum, but with high-luster blued finish instead of Parkerized. Innards are the same, but the receiver is made from slightly harder steel to accommodate constant magnum loads and the increased pressures created by LEO and LTL (bean-bag) rounds. Synthetic stock is standard. Factory-installed wood stocks are rare in the 870P. Magazine tube is threaded to accept the addition of magazine extension tubes. Accepts 2 3/4" and 3" shells.
Sources: Remington's website, and The Remington Society of America (http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/870)
This info is not really correct... Some 870Ps come with walnut stocks and fore ends and some do not... there are close to 12 different 870P models to chose from that all have different barrel lengths, sights, stocks, etc... One of the most common 870Ps is a parkerzied finish, 18 inch barrel with a mod choke, rifle sights, and walnut stocks...
Check out the sticky on the top of this forum and this LINK (http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870standard.htm)...
B
This info is not really correct... Some 870Ps come with walnut stocks and fore ends and some do not... there are close to 12 different 870P models to chose from that all have different barrel lengths, sights, stocks, etc... One of the most common 870Ps is a parkerzied finish, 18 inch barrel with a mod choke, rifle sights, and walnut stocks...
Check out the sticky on the top of this forum and this LINK (http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870standard.htm)...
B
mine all have wood stocks,one is parked,now I,m looking for the P after 870 none have it. does that mean they arent POLICE MODELS.officially,cuz I know some were invintoried by and used by police.so do police all have 870p marked on them.
An 870P will be marked Model 870 POLICE MAGNUM...
1600
varoadking
11-27-08, 05:16
I don't believe the newer metal trigger guards are MIM. I recall reading that they are made from "compressed metal," which I take to mean some sort of powdered metal process.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the process you describe is MIM...
I have a pair of 870P's with wood stocks...one is an older blued former CHP piece, and the other a newer parked version fit with a Wilson Combat magazine extension...
I added a Limbsaver pad to the blued version, but fitting them to wood stocks proved to be a real PITA, for me anyway. I understand all the new 870P's may come with the Limbsaver pad...
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the process you describe is MIM...
I'll defer to those with greater knowledge, but my understanding is that there are any number of processes that start with powdered metal, MIM being merely one of them. "Compressed metal" is a fuzzy term but doesn't necessarily mean MIM.
Either way, I like the old ones better.
Dan Goodwin
11-27-08, 09:49
Go to pawn shop get older Wingmaster. Buy barrel you want (though RS models are quite common and suitable). Make sure it has the new and improved shell lifter, get one if it doesn't.
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