View Full Version : Recommendations for a DMR/SPR 5.56 rifle
hello everyone. I have been a lurker for awhile. I am a former Special Agent, FBI, state prosecutor, and retired trial court judge. I am a firearms enthusiast (primarily a Glock shooter) but do own a couple of Sig 516's, which I like very much. Now I am interested in acquiring a DMR/SPR 5.56 rifle. I have looked at several obvious choices (FN, DD, Centurion Arms, etc.) and am wondering what some of you who have more experience in the rifle arena might suggest. I have a reasonable, but not unlimited, budget. I have an Accupower 1x8 scope on a Geissele mount on one of my 516's which I plan to use on this new rifle if I get one. So, wondering what you would suggest/recommend?
hello everyone. I have been a lurker for awhile. I am a former Special Agent, FBI, state prosecutor, and retired trial court judge. I am a firearms enthusiast (primarily a Glock shooter) but do own a couple of Sig 516's, which I like very much. Now I am interested in acquiring a DMR/SPR 5.56 rifle. I have looked at several obvious choices (FN, DD, Centurion Arms, etc.) and am wondering what some of you who have more experience in the rifle arena might suggest. I have a reasonable, but not unlimited, budget. I have an Accupower 1x8 scope on a Geissele mount on one of my 516's which I plan to use on this new rifle if I get one. So, wondering what you would suggest/recommend?
KAC makes a nice 18" DMR'ish SR15. Full disclosure - I'm double-fisting the KAC cool-aid, so take that for what it's worth...
https://www.knightarmco.com/4696/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-15-lpr-mod-2
https://www.knightarmco.com/12013/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-15-e3-lpr-mod-2-m-lok
Precision rifle to me is where "off the shelf" starts to be much less attractive. In this SPR etc...realm there is no equivalent to a Colt 6920. Precision rifles are a niche weapon and most precision shooters are a lot more particular about the specifics of their guns-barrel, twist rate/profile, type of steel, chamber, grip, trigger, butt, rail, muzzle device etc....
MorphCross
02-11-19, 19:20
Need a little more info to make recommendations. For example do you want a rifle to take from your car to a shooting lane for long range or do you want something that you can carry around for long periods in a day to make long distance shots on remote targets?
Do you want an SPR (clone) to use so you can get a feel for how the U.S. Military employed them or do you want something that leverages the best of modern updates for personal achievement?
Without knowing what you consider a "reasonable" budget it's a little hard to guess. There's the original (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/upper-receivers/ar-15-mk12-mod-0-gen-ii-upper-receiver-prod109118.aspx). If that's a little high, BCM offers several variations (https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SPR-Mk-12-Upper-Receiver-Half-Groups-s/131.htm). Any of these can simply be mated to the lower of your choice.
Or assemble your own...
diving dave
02-11-19, 19:31
I'd say grab a BCM 18 inch upper, handguard of your choice. Add a nice trigger...And run 69-77 Grn pills to see what it likes. Mine loves 75 Grn HPBT.
If I was trying to build the best SPR upper I could, I'd buy a LMT MLR MRP with either the 16" or 18" 5R SS barrel options.
Lot of good options I have a stainless 16 inch mid BCM that after some teething issues has worked out well. Also have a 20 inch white oak armament barrel built on a sons of liberty gunworks upper and lower. Both guns shoot wonderful and didn’t break the bank. Once you build one there a blast to shoot
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If I were starting from scratch I’d do this: Centurion MK12.
https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/mk12-rfl.htm
If I were starting from scratch I’d do this: Centurion MK12.
https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/mk12-rfl.htm
I dream about one of those from time to time
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Lot of good options I have a stainless 16 inch mid BCM that after some teething issues has worked out well. Also have a 20 inch white oak armament barrel built on a sons of liberty gunworks upper and lower. Both guns shoot wonderful and didn’t break the bank. Once you build one there a blast to shoot
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I have similar experience except my White Oak is 18". I have around 1500 rounds on my BCM SS410 upper. I found a load pretty quickly with 75gr Hornady match. 69gr SMK was decent too. With the White Oak, accuracy has been more than acceptable with plenty of groups in the .7 - .9 MOA range but so far I haven't quite found the combo to match the accuracy of the BCM.
The upside of building is you to pick every component exactly has you want it.
I have similar experience except my White Oak is 18". I have around 1500 rounds on my BCM SS410 upper. I found a load pretty quickly with 75gr Hornady match. 69gr SMK was decent too. With the White Oak, accuracy has been more than acceptable with plenty of groups in the .7 - .9 MOA range but so far I haven't quite found the combo to match the accuracy of the BCM.
The upside of building is you to pick every component exactly has you want it.
The bcm confounded me for a bit. Twice I was ready to sell it. It was grouping around 2 moa no matter what I was shooting. Then after about 400 rounds it’ started improving now it just flat out shoots. Running a 1-4 optic now and glad I didn’t sell it. The white oaks been a beast from the beginning. Also have a bcm with a hammer forged 16 inch upper, not even free floated. Actually shot that rifle in local dmr and precision matches before I got the other two. That ones a fantastic shooter. But I’m getting off topic sorry.
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hello everyone. I have been a lurker for awhile. I am a former Special Agent, FBI, state prosecutor, and retired trial court judge. I am a firearms enthusiast (primarily a Glock shooter) but do own a couple of Sig 516's, which I like very much. Now I am interested in acquiring a DMR/SPR 5.56 rifle. I have looked at several obvious choices (FN, DD, Centurion Arms, etc.) and am wondering what some of you who have more experience in the rifle arena might suggest. I have a reasonable, but not unlimited, budget. I have an Accupower 1x8 scope on a Geissele mount on one of my 516's which I plan to use on this new rifle if I get one. So, wondering what you would suggest/recommend?
Your Honor,
First and foremost, thank you for finally posting, and welcome to the board. Secondly, A little more information might get you a slightly more suitable answer. If you plan on shooting more expensive ammunition, or loading your own, you will find a large difference in the outcome of your targets. Or perhaps I should say, the opportunity to shoot better is increased.
I'll throw this info out there in a generic manner, which will no doubt have a few people argue or get upset that I'm not being scientific, but my real world activities (civ/ LE/ MIL), as well as that of an instructor bear this out.
Ammunition that is good enough to shoot a 3" group at 100 yards isn't going to shoot much better than a 3" group at 100 yards. Regardless of what some people like to post, their bottom of the barrel ammo doesn't magically get better just because of a decent barrel. What a decent barrel does is keep the group around 3" at 100 yards IF the shooter does their part. Using that same ammunition, a low quality barrel with that low quality ammo might lend itself to more of a 4 or 5" group IF the shooter does their part. Quite often that may be the result of fliers that appear from out of no where.
Taking the above, we can look at the ammunition and barrel as objects which work in harmony, and not independently. Good ammunition, along with a good barrel work much in the same way. Good ammo that is capable of 3/4" groups can only achieve those groups if the barrel is equally good. Again, this is assuming the shooter is capable of stacking rounds on target to that degree of accuracy.
With the above out of the way, we need to figure out what sort of shooting you plan on doing, as well as an honest assessment of what sort of ammo you will be purchasing.
cistercian
02-11-19, 23:17
Hello your Honor! I purchased a DDM4V7 Pro upper and I am very pleased with it. It is an 18" heavy barrel that is chrome lined and has a 1/7 twist. It also has a rifle length gas system and a muzzle brake to reduce recoil and muzzle climb.
I wanted a rifle that was reliable so the rifle length gas system will help extend bolt life. The strength to weight barrel profile is very stable in use and it shoots very softly too. Fast follow ups are easy. It does not get hot as fast as a regular govt profile barrel either.
The weight and brake make for a smooth shooter but it comes at the price of tremendous muzzle blast. It is loud.
Many reviews state with good ammo it is capable of sub MOA performance too. I have used no premium loads, just XM193 and MK262
so I cannot speak to ultimate accuracy...but it is consistent.
It is mounted on a DDM4V7 lower with a Giessele SSA-E trigger and I have a VCOG for the optic. It all comes together to make a rugged, reliable rifle that is great for many tasks. The whole ensemble meets my use criteria perfectly.
You could just as easily make one. Good barrel, G rail, G trigger, and good ammo.
Unless you want storebrought. Me I like Lilja barrels and my URX II rail.
ETA I stick to 16”
wetidlerjr
02-12-19, 05:20
This is as "DMR/SPR" as I get.
55916
BCM Lower/SSA-E/LMT SOPMOD stock/2.5-10X44 Vortex Viper
This is the URG: BCM SS410™ 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group with PRI Gen III 12"
55915
Shoots great, very accurate @100yds
ViniVidivici
02-12-19, 07:14
Welcome to the board, good sir!
Are you intetested in assembling your own, or buying off the shelf? The former can be extremely rewarding, and not terribly expensive.
I look at a SDM/SPR as something that's a tack driver, but light enough to hump around all day.
Boba Fett v2
02-12-19, 09:46
If I were starting from scratch I’d do this: Centurion MK12.
https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/mk12-rfl.htm
Concur.
Hammer_Man
02-12-19, 14:30
How far do you want to shoot? What are your expectations regarding accuracy? What type of ammo/projectiles do you plan on using? Do you want to build your weapon, or do you prefer to buy an off the shelf unit? I think more information is needed here.
Welcome to M4C. If the cash allows and you want an 18” rifle, get a KAC LPR. If you want a 16” recce, the LMT MRP would be my pick. I own an LMT and have shot the KAC. They are equal in the accuracy department. The KAC shoots smoother.
noonesshowmonkey
02-12-19, 18:37
Larue Tactical makes complete uppers. Their predat barrels have a great showing on the ARFCOM "MOA all day" thread.
You can also take a look at some Noveske barrels / uppers.
Otherwise, i'd stick with Centurion/Criterion etc. Rainier Arms offers complete uppers and rifles with barrels from various manufacturers.
everready73
02-12-19, 18:49
Lots of good recommendations. Like said some more info on how using works be helpful.
Do you want a clone correct rifle? If so the Centurion Arms is a great option for the mk12 spr. High power sales and Precision Reflex both make excellent mk 12 clones as well
If you don't care about the clone thing I would recommend
Larue ultimate upper- Really good value under 1k for everything but stripped lower. you can pick barrel length and the kit comes with everything (including lower parts) you need except lower. You can order a Larue lower after you order or purchase your choice. The Aero M4E1 are nice IMO
White Oak SPR upper- this had their very accurate spr barrel with a quality ALG rail. They have other options with 20 barrels and sure they would build to your spec well. Would have to buy it build complete lower
Compass lake engineering- they sale complete upper with Douglas barrels and also have bartlien and Krieger barrels they can build uppers on. Would have to supply lower
Wow, the responses to my post have been many, quick and informative. As some of you suggested, more info as to what I want to accomplish/how I would use a dmr/spr rifle: It would be used almost entirely as a range gun or occasional distance shooting at a friend's farm. No competition rifle shooting for me--afraid I'm getting too old and eyes not good enough anymore. I would hate to spend over $2500 for the rifle but at same time want a quality weapon. Otherwise, I'd just go buy a Ruger MPR for $599. Really, just want a nice rifle to compliment my Sigs. I am a Geissele fan (have their triggers in my 516's as well as their mount for my Trijicon1X8 Accupower) and may wait to price out an 18" barrel model on their website once it is up and running. What would you guys think of an entirely G rifle? Anyway, thanks so much for the advice and discussion. I'll return with photos once I decide what to do and make a purchase.
MorphCross
02-13-19, 09:21
The Geissele probably will be a suitable firearm.
You could get a Centurion upper built on an 18" Douglas SS 1 in 7" twist barrel using the 13"/15" CMR rail and pair it with a Centurion lower built out with a Geissele SSA-E trigger for roundabouts 1800.00. Mount your 1×8 in its G mount and you would have a great rifle.
The Knights 18" would be a pinnacle of complete rifles and you can be assured it will be joy to shoot.
Stick with any of the recommendations made by any of the members in this thread and you won't go wrong.
I'd buy one of those Geissele rifles in a heartbeat. Especially the OD green models.
I built a Geissele SPR upper using a Geissele in house 18" SPR barrel, a Geissele Mk1 15" rail, and Geissele SGB some years ago. While I built it myself, the main components like trigger, rail, and barrel were Geissele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJPAQSjaBLg
ginzomatic
02-13-19, 13:54
KAC makes a nice 18" DMR'ish SR15. Full disclosure - I'm double-fisting the KAC cool-aid, so take that for what it's worth...
https://www.knightarmco.com/4696/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-15-lpr-mod-2
https://www.knightarmco.com/12013/shop/commercial-firearms/sr-15-e3-lpr-mod-2-m-lok
+1 for the LPR
Also take a look at the Kyle Defoor uppers from BCM. Pair it with a lower and optic of your choice and you would have an outstanding rifle capable of great accuracy with good ammunition.
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Kyle-Defoor-KD4-Upper-Receiver-Groups-s/229.htm
I miss the Kyle Defoor forum. His SPR thread was epic
I miss the Kyle Defoor forum. His SPR thread was epic
I wonder if there's a way those older SME threads could be archived and still be accessible? There was a wealth of knowledge from all of them.
I miss the Kyle Defoor forum. His SPR thread was epic
Yeah it was a great thread. Wasn't his conclusion that the Recce was better than the SPR?
Yeah it was a great thread. Wasn't his conclusion that the Recce was better than the SPR?
Pretty much. And really a recce is an SPR and you can get by at 500 yds super easy with a 16 if not 14.5 barrel.
I had a screenshot a while back saved where he said pretty much it was known just as a "sniper M4" and that 500 yds is your sweet spot with anything 5.56.
He even did a video on it....lemme see...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQG4_yOef-E
Cool video thanks. I do remember the Sniper-M4 comment as well. Around the same period as that I was heavily into the SPR concept...(both the recce and SPR rifles), and tested them head to head on a few occasions keeping variables as constant as possible.
The Recce won out for me after these experiences, and ultimately the .308 Recce concept was crowned supreme when I took it to it's ultimate conclusion personally speaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_99TxLnwI
Really recce vs spr is tomayto tomahto to me.
My big idea is a middy RAS FF with a 16” stainless and a SOPMOD stock and a 3-9x scope. Maybe a 1-8x.
It would do pretty much everything I would want in 556
A 14.5” does hit at 500 pretty easily with a little bit of magnification. Longer barrels offer a little more forgiveness of range estimation errors. Its all a trade-off. I feel that 16” is the sweet spot for a DMR-type rifle. But 14.5 isn’t bad, and my current “recce” rifle in my safe is a 14.5” stainless with LPVO. 500m is as far as I shoot with any regularity, and if I’m dropping E-Types, I’m happy.
16 inch is a great sweet spot. Even just running a 1-4 it’s a versatile rifle. My 20 inch was built for the gas gun series and local matches. A range I belong to hoes out to 1250 yards. I’m gonna see how far out I can stretch it consistently in a couple weeks
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I like 16” because you don’t need to pin or weld. Really, the difference is negligible as they both give you two solid revolutions with a 1/7 barrel.
A 1/8 would dictate a 16” for same.
I even have a spicier opinion; I don’t even think that a carbine gas would hamper you. I like mid and rifle (omg a rifle length is the pepsi challenge winner) but really a carbine gas isn’t like a 308 or anything and I mess with my SR25 carbines.
I just think they “hide” better under a mid or rifle length tube.
Wouldn’t say it is my total first choice but nothing I would dismiss.
Also load up on 20rders. I almost exclusively get those now. Especially if all you really wanna do is bench or prone shoot.
I wonder if there's a way those older SME threads could be archived and still be accessible? There was a wealth of knowledge from all of them.
As I recall this was discussed in the past and the final answer was that those threads are gone for good.
I like 16” because you don’t need to pin or weld. Really, the difference is negligible as they both give you two solid revolutions with a 1/7 barrel.
A 1/8 would dictate a 16” for same.
I even have a spicier opinion; I don’t even think that a carbine gas would hamper you. I like mid and rifle (omg a rifle length is the pepsi challenge winner) but really a carbine gas isn’t like a 308 or anything and I mess with my SR25 carbines.
I just think they “hide” better under a mid or rifle length tube.
Wouldn’t say it is my total first choice but nothing I would dismiss.
Also load up on 20rders. I almost exclusively get those now. Especially if all you really wanna do is bench or prone shoot.
I agree with the 16" barrel. I don't want a pinned/welded muzzle device because it limits how I can change the rifle. I don't feel like the little bit of length you save is worth the trade. I also agree with your comment about a carbine gas system. With proper gas port sizing it doesn't matter as much what your gas system length is.
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