View Full Version : First ever female Viper demonstration team commander, relieved of duty
After only 2 weeks. Considering the obvious backlash and accusations that will follow about sexism, etc in the mil, she must have really F-d up to lose her command in 2 weeks. Not that it's relevant, but she's darn cute too:
Capt. Zoe Kotnik, first ever female Viper demonstration team commander, relieved of duty after just 2 weeks
Just two weeks after making history as the first female pilot to head the Air Force’s F-16 Viper demonstration team, Capt. Zoe Kotnik was relieved of her command on Monday.
“Col. Derek O’Malley, 20th Fighter Wing commander, relieved Capt. Zoe Kotnik from command Feb. 11 due to a loss of confidence in her ability to lead and command the Air Combat Command F-16 Viper demonstration team,” reads a statement made by Col. Allen Herritage, director of public affairs at the Air Force’s Air Combat Command.
“The Viper demonstration team is working to minimize impacts on scheduled performances and looks forward to inspiring crowds around the country during the upcoming season as soon as a new commander is selected.”
https://fightersweep.com/11957/capt-zoe-kotnik-first-ever-female-viper-demonstration-team-commander-relieved-of-duty-after-just-2-weeks/?fbclid=IwAR3YRStl8-8xuJUl-849ZgPJGQ7ea7vvtt6uv75iEL5udAIJH1ldfKT3GQs
Yep, she's done something stupid. May not have been inside the jet. She has deleted her Instragram page. She might have posted something she shouldn't have.
sundance435
02-12-19, 14:19
Yep, she's done something stupid. May not have been inside the jet. She has deleted her Instragram page. She might have posted something she shouldn't have.
That was my first thought - something personal life-related. Regardless, there's no way the Air Force would be doing this if whatever "it" was wasn't pretty egregious, considering that there's probably already a House select committee convened to investigate.
She'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dogshit outta Hong Kong now.
Inkslinger
02-12-19, 14:23
Maybe this?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190212/efd75fafc42e73c09aea5d8cb43399eb.jpg
I kid I kid...
Nightvisionary
02-12-19, 14:23
Whats a Viper team? Blue Angels J.V.? Never heard of it.
Chappy would be disappoint. He watched BOYS blown to PIECES over Southeast Asia who thought they were ready....
Adrenaline_6
02-12-19, 14:57
Chappy would be disappoint. He watched BOYS blown to PIECES over Southeast Asia who thought they were ready....
She said "Damn it Chappy, I'm doing it my way!"
turnburglar
02-12-19, 15:05
Serisouly what is the AF viper demostration team?
I sat on the Nellis flightline for 3 years and watched over the
thunderbirds F-16's, but never heard of the viper team??
Are they like the thunderbirds east coast rivals??
I wondered that too. I think the Thunderbirds are the Air force Precision team that can also roll into combat. It looks like Viper Demo Team is more about the single plane ability, join other sometimes older aircraft at airshows, tour more. IOW, a car show of sorts vs an F1 race. not to suggest the pilots are lacking by any means,, just two totally different sort of demonstrations.
That's what I am picking up anyway. I could be wrong.
Def. not the JV for the Blue Angles. The Blue Angles are the Navy Precision Team. Blue Angles & Thunderbirds are similar. Viper Demo Team is a different animal.
Looks like the Viper Demo is a single ship show not a team, do a routine to show the maneuverability of the F-16.
I wondered that too. I think the Thunderbirds are the Air force Precision team that can also roll into combat. It looks like Viper Demo Team is more about the single plane ability, join other sometimes older aircraft at airshows, tour more. IOW, a car show of sorts vs an F1 race. not to suggest the pilots are lacking by any means,, just two totally different sort of demonstrations.
That's what I am picking up anyway. I could be wrong.
Def. not the JV for the Blue Angles. The Blue Angles are the Navy Precision Team. Blue Angles & Thunderbirds are similar. Viper Demo Team is a different animal.
Haven't read the rest of the thread, hope it isn't answered there, but, here you go: https://www.acc.af.mil/Home/Aerial-Events/F16-Viper/
It is a solo deal, only one pilot as far as I can tell.
Knowing military-speak like I do, I am guessing it was something of a personal nature; perhaps a failure in the area of morals.
At the risk of sounding like a "woman hater" I've noticed that no matter how intelligent, professional, and successful a woman is, she will still revert to displaying her sexuality/sexual power through her physical attractiveness (if they are physically attractive). It's just their nature and in 2019 with all the social media outlets making the display of yourself that much easier, it is a foregone conclusion. Now, I'm not saying they are posing in smutty situations, likely they are tasteful by modern standards but probably still display an emphasis on booty and tits but would be considered unprofessional if maybe you represent the government, a big company, or a technical field.
I'm not saying this is what happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just that.
Knowing military-speak like I do, I am guessing it was something of a personal nature; perhaps a failure in the area of morals.
She was "consorting" with her crew chief...:rolleyes:
At the risk of sounding like a "woman hater" I've noticed that no matter how intelligent, professional, and successful a woman is, she will still revert to displaying her sexuality/sexual power through her physical attractiveness (if they are physically attractive). It's just their nature and in 2019 with all the social media outlets making the display of yourself that much easier, it is a foregone conclusion. Now, I'm not saying they are posing in smutty situations, likely they are tasteful by modern standards but probably still display an emphasis on booty and tits but would be considered unprofessional if maybe you represent the government, a big company, or a technical field.
I'm not saying this is what happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just that.
You mean like Kamala Harris... sleep with married powerful guy 30+ years older than you to get gravy Gov jobs and have the Party in your pocket?
The first female chopper pilots I encountered in the Army looked nothing like that gal. The ones I met were tough little bitches who were suspected and later known to be Lesbians. You know the kind who could take a punch in the shoulder and deliver an equal punch in return. None were really nothing like the models and beauty contestants seen in recent aviation units. The more recent crop of females in military aviation are not bad looking.
The toughest lesbian I ever encountered in the Army was a "gal" with an artillery unit during Desert Storm. She was a fire support person (FISTER) and half Black and Mexican. That little bitch missed her calling because she would have been an asset during any firefight and tough as any 11b.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-19, 01:54
She was "consorting" with her crew chief...:rolleyes:
He was 'full service'...
The first female chopper pilots I encountered in the Army looked nothing like that gal. The ones I met were tough little bitches who were suspected and later known to be Lesbians. You know the kind who could take a punch in the shoulder and deliver an equal punch in return. None were really nothing like the models and beauty contestants seen in recent aviation units. The more recent crop of females in military aviation are not bad looking.
The toughest lesbian I ever encountered in the Army was a gal with an artillery unit during Desert Storm. She was a fire support person (FISTER) and half Black and Mexican. That little bitch missed her calling because she would have been an asset during any firefight and tough as any 11b.
A most unfortunate title for lesbian. Good to hear there are some tough gals doing good work in the mil.
A most unfortunate title for lesbian. Good to hear there are some tough gals doing good work in the mil.
Yeah, kind of ironic. But the ironic twist was that it was actually a guy in that artillery unit, who had all the features of a woman. Even the voice. The other crew members in that artillery unit had a nickname for him/her. First flamer I ever saw before in uniform.
My son at West Point has indicated some Lesbians he has encountered there, but he indicates they're good officers in training. Notice I am always referring to Gay females, not Gay Males. It seems to work better with the female and their sexual/gender makeup.
Yeah, kind of ironic. But the ironic twist was that it was actually a guy in that artillery unit, who had all the features of a woman. Even the voice. The other crew members in that artillery unit had a nickname for him/her. First flamer I ever saw before in uniform.
My son at West Point has indicated some Lesbians he has encountered there, but he indicates they're good officers in training. Notice I am always referring to Gay females, not Gay Males. It seems to work better with the female and their sexual/gender makeup.
The majority of females I’ve worked with are lesbian. I’m to the point that I’m surprised when they’re not. Those that are straight, are often dual military. There are good and bad in both groups.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The majority of females I’ve worked with are lesbian. I’m to the point that I’m surprised when they’re not. Those that are straight, are often dual military. There are good and bad in both groups.
I have related this story for years about the Artillery "Lesbian" FISTER in Desert Storm. At that time, there were no female Artillery crew members, but I thought I was actually looking at and listening to a woman. It was a couple of double takes for sure. Apparently he/she was doing a good job, but its a memory that sticks with you.
Grand58742
02-13-19, 13:22
I have related this story for years about the Artillery "Lesbian" FISTER in Desert Storm. At that time, there were no female Artillery crew members, but I thought I was actually looking at and listening to a woman. It was a couple of double takes for sure. Apparently he/she was doing a good job, but its a memory that sticks with you.
You know, I'm not going to point out the extreme giggle worthy moment in your post...
But everyone sees it.
You know, I'm not going to point out the extreme giggle worthy moment in your post...
But everyone sees it.
The He/She must have been doing well because it was a buck sergeant. Yeah the weird things you see - A Black-Mexican Mix "Fister" that seems tough like a dude, seemingly doing the job with strength and speed, but the voice and mannerisms of a woman. I wonder whatever happened to that person? If my memory serves me correctly, the artillery unit was with 7th Corps out of Germany, but I may be wrong.
I was wondering how a woman became a FIST-V soldier...
One of the first friends I made in the Army was/is extremely feminine in his speech, gestures, body posture, etc. Although I was pretty suspicious, he is as straight as a man can be. He was raised without a male figure in the family.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-19, 14:18
After only 2 weeks. Considering the obvious backlash and accusations that will follow about sexism, etc in the mil, she must have really F-d up to lose her command in 2 weeks. Not that it's relevant, but she's darn cute too:
Capt. Zoe Kotnik, first ever female Viper demonstration team commander, relieved of duty after just 2 weeks
Just two weeks after making history as the first female pilot to head the Air Force’s F-16 Viper demonstration team, Capt. Zoe Kotnik was relieved of her command on Monday.
https://youtu.be/9v-33jcEDk4
I was wondering how a woman became a FIST-V soldier...
One of the first friends I made in the Army was/is extremely feminine in his speech, gestures, body posture, etc. Although I was pretty suspicious, he is as straight as a man can be. He was raised without a male figure in the family.
This person was a Fire Support Specialist with an M109 crew, 7th Corps, probably 75th FA.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-19, 15:05
Is that pronounced "Fist-veee" or "Fist-5"
After only 2 weeks. Considering the obvious backlash and accusations that will follow about sexism, etc in the mil, she must have really F-d up to lose her command in 2 weeks. Not that it's relevant, but she's darn cute too:
Capt. Zoe Kotnik, first ever female Viper demonstration team commander, relieved of duty after just 2 weeks
Just two weeks after making history as the first female pilot to head the Air Force’s F-16 Viper demonstration team, Capt. Zoe Kotnik was relieved of her command on Monday.
“Col. Derek O’Malley, 20th Fighter Wing commander, relieved Capt. Zoe Kotnik from command Feb. 11 due to a loss of confidence in her ability to lead and command the Air Combat Command F-16 Viper demonstration team,” reads a statement made by Col. Allen Herritage, director of public affairs at the Air Force’s Air Combat Command.
“The Viper demonstration team is working to minimize impacts on scheduled performances and looks forward to inspiring crowds around the country during the upcoming season as soon as a new commander is selected.”
https://fightersweep.com/11957/capt-zoe-kotnik-first-ever-female-viper-demonstration-team-commander-relieved-of-duty-after-just-2-weeks/?fbclid=IwAR3YRStl8-8xuJUl-849ZgPJGQ7ea7vvtt6uv75iEL5udAIJH1ldfKT3GQsI'd be pretty nervous to be Col. Derek O’Malley right now. I hope he cleared this all the way up the chain before pulling the plug on this budding star fighter pilot. Doesn't seem like the kind of decision a colonel with promotion aspirations would make all on his own.
Averageman
02-13-19, 15:37
I'd be pretty nervous to be Col. Derek O’Malley right now. I hope he cleared this all the way up the chain before pulling the plug on this budding star fighter pilot. Doesn't seem like the kind of decision a colonel with promotion aspirations would make all on his own.
You're right no matter what she did to make that happen, he's going to be "That Guy" forever more.
I would guess he's sending out resume's as we type away here.
You're right no matter what she did to make that happen, he's going to be "That Guy" forever more.
I would guess he's sending out resume's as we type away here.
This video from 2000 is beginning to make the rounds, starring Col. O'Malley.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26479/commander-that-fired-zoe-kotnik-from-f-16-demo-team-made-this-crass-video-15-years-ago
Funny video, but in this day and age...the number of people who find it funny will likely be dwarfed by the explosion of righteous indignation if this gets wide play.
Is that pronounced "Fist-veee" or "Fist-5"
FISTV (vee)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M981_FISTV
Averageman
02-13-19, 17:17
This video from 2000 is beginning to make the rounds, starring Col. O'Malley.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26479/commander-that-fired-zoe-kotnik-from-f-16-demo-team-made-this-crass-video-15-years-ago
Funny video, but in this day and age...the number of people who find it funny will likely be dwarfed by the explosion of righteous indignation if this gets wide play.
Yeah he's done for.
Comfortable sack or not, that video put them in the wringer.
per lesbos in man jobs, I learned early not to judge. I knew this one girl cop in the day whom everyone swore was a hammerdyke. She was kinda burly(not fat), had short short hair and was kinda quiet. Turns out she liked men with a passion but everyone thought she was gay. She wasn't pretty but not at all unattractive. Trust me. Not gay at all. At All!
Meanwhile this one fish was always bringing boys to the yard but was a lipstick lez and a TOTAL blue falcon. Ugh.
Anyways...I learned at a delicate age that if you are gonna fight in the hood (and mean it) then yeah...you probably arent gonna be dressing like you are going to the prom.
Only God can judge.
Still....I sometimes wish they would segregate men and women like in WWII or something because this always happens.
Averageman
02-13-19, 17:29
Still....I sometimes wish they would segregate men and women like in WWII or something because this always happens.
In '09 I worked as a maintenance contractor in Iraq.
Indirectly I worked for the Division Maintenance Tech, an old school Warrant who took no crap. One day he comes to see me and asks if I would be willing to work at Division in an office setting because all of the E-7's and above in his office had been brought up on charges ranging from Sexual Assault to Fraternization.
I told him, I would help him in any way I could, but that I was also curious as to the legality of what he was asking me to do and the environment I was to be working in.
Yeah, your right, it was better when we had WAC's.
per lesbos in man jobs, I learned early not to judge. I knew this one girl cop in the day whom everyone swore was a hammerdyke. She was kinda burly(not fat), had short short hair and was kinda quiet. Turns out she liked men with a passion but everyone thought she was gay. She wasn't pretty but not at all unattractive. Trust me. Not gay at all. At All!
Meanwhile this one fish was always bringing boys to the yard but was a lipstick lez and a TOTAL blue falcon. Ugh.
Anyways...I learned at a delicate age that if you are gonna fight in the hood (and mean it) then yeah...you probably arent gonna be dressing like you are going to the prom.
Only God can judge.
Still....I sometimes wish they would segregate men and women like in WWII or something because this always happens.
When your smart enough to see the diamond in the ruff others can't see, some good times can be had. Many of the female athletes and bbers I knew, worked around, etc, people thought were gay. They were not...
Never dated a lady cop sadly.
just a scout
02-13-19, 19:22
Is that pronounced "Fist-veee" or "Fist-5"
Vee
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
SomeOtherGuy
02-13-19, 19:55
This video from 2000 is beginning to make the rounds, starring Col. O'Malley.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26479/commander-that-fired-zoe-kotnik-from-f-16-demo-team-made-this-crass-video-15-years-ago
Funny video, but in this day and age...the number of people who find it funny will likely be dwarfed by the explosion of righteous indignation if this gets wide play.
Other than being sophomoric to infantile there's nothing offensive in that video. I'm sure the "triggerEERED!!!!" crowd will claim to be offended, but they aren't, just trying to use the current hysteria for political purposes.
There won't be many people you actually want serving who don't have something like this in their past. What would Ike do?
Other than being sophomoric to infantile there's nothing offensive in that video. I'm sure the "triggerEERED!!!!" crowd will claim to be offended, but they aren't, just trying to use the current hysteria for political purposes.
There won't be many people you actually want serving who don't have something like this in their past. What would Ike do?
Preaching to the choir bud, but of course your opinion has nothing to do with the perceptions of a large portion of the population, and the portion with whom most of the media is aligned.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-19, 20:55
Yeah he's done for.
Comfortable sack or not, that video put them in the wringer.
Where is this guys career headed, I mean before this broke? Was he at a dead-end and decided to take a dookie in the pool?
Where is this guys career headed, I mean before this broke? Was he at a dead-end and decided to take a dookie in the pool?
Doesn't look like it: https://www.shaw.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/1544363/colonel-derek-j-omalley/
https://warontherocks.com/author/derek-omalley/
Despite the cutting up in the video, I'll bet he is pretty straight-laced, apparently graduated BYU, and is pretty connected with the LDS Church, this article is worth reading:
https://www.thechurchnews.com/archive/2009-04-21/lds-fighter-pilot-earns-u-s-air-force-award-33667
All that aside, this whole thing is pretty much overinflated. The only reason it made any news at all is because they made such a big deal out of her being the unit 'Commander' in the first place. I doubt that the Viper Demo Team is actually a command slot. I think more it may be more appropriate to call who ever is running that show the OIC.
JMO.
platoonDaddy
02-14-19, 11:13
They cut off comments to her video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zloIsBBjM0A
Also the Blue Angels suspended a pilot: https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/14/u-s-navy-blue-angel-suspended-after-disastrous-week-for-u-s-demo-teams/
SomeOtherGuy
02-14-19, 12:17
Also the Blue Angels suspended a pilot: https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/14/u-s-navy-blue-angel-suspended-after-disastrous-week-for-u-s-demo-teams/
So the demo teams are in the same rough shape as the broader AF/Navy (I don't know what kind of shape the Army is in at the moment).
So is this some indication of a larger issue going on in these units or something?
So is this some indication of a larger issue going on in these units or something?Everyone is high on social media?
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So the demo teams are in the same rough shape as the broader AF/Navy (I don't know what kind of shape the Army is in at the moment).
Feb. 12, 2019, three US Army Golden Knights were hurt in an overnight training exercise at the Homestead Air Reserve Base.
SomeOtherGuy
02-15-19, 13:09
Feb. 12, 2019, three US Army Golden Knights were hurt in an overnight training exercise at the Homestead Air Reserve Base.
Yeah I wasn't clear. I knew about that incident. I have read tons of reports on the sad state of affairs for US Navy surface ships, and fewer but enough reports on problems in general USAF units, so I view those two branches as having major and current command, morale and discipline issues. I haven't read similar reports about the Army or USMC (beyond the issues of PT standards and women in infantry-officer programs they can't hack) so I don't know if those branches are in similar trouble or operating OK.
Yeah I wasn't clear. I knew about that incident. I have read tons of reports on the sad state of affairs for US Navy surface ships, and fewer but enough reports on problems in general USAF units, so I view those two branches as having major and current command, morale and discipline issues. I haven't read similar reports about the Army or USMC (beyond the issues of PT standards and women in infantry-officer programs they can't hack) so I don't know if those branches are in similar trouble or operating OK.
ProPublica has a comprehensive report on the USS Fitzgerald.
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