Which steel cased Ammo for training/plinking??

[turnburglar]

Hey Guys,

I am considering placing an order through lucky gunner for around 2-3k rounds of 223. I wont be using this ammo for home defeense or any serious use, I just want the cheapest stuff to run through my guns for training or plinking. Because of a back injury I dont pick up my casings ever, so "pick up your brass and reload" is kinda out of the question.

The main brands being considered are:

Tula
Red Army standard
Wolf WPA

A guy on instgram said he has ran 25K of the 75gr tula doing ariel hog hunts and claims its great for the task.

Let me know if you have good or bad experiences with any of the mentioned brands.

[kerplode]

Honestly, I don't really find much difference between those three brands. They're equally unexceptional...Goes bang and such. Buy whatever is cheapest and keep your chamber clean.
And multiply whatever you see on Instagram by 10%...

[john armond]

I run Tula in my dedicated steel case plinking rifle. Wolf won’t lock the bolt back on an empty mag, and has issues with hshort stroking. Tula seems to be a little hotter and more consistent. This is 55gr.

[themonk]

IMO wolf gold is so cheap and is such great ammo that it has not made sense to me to go to steel.

[Wake27]

IMO wolf gold is so cheap and is such great ammo that it has not made sense to me to go to steel.

Agreed. I have some steel that I bought post sandy hook, but regardless of what anyone says, I won’t run it through my good rifles. Which means that it only works for the beaters, and having ammo that I won’t shoot through half of my guns doesn’t make sense when brass is only like $60 more per case. If it’s for a beater gun, I’d go with whatever is cheapest since that is the point.


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[Pi3]

I would try a little of each before buying a case to be sure it will run to your satisfaction. Wolf gold is hard to beat & the accuracy should be better.

[Kansaswoodguy]

I bought 2000 rounds of steel case wolf at $89 a 1000 probably around 15 years ago it is good for about 3moa or so out of most guns. I still have 1200 or so rounds of it laying around. I just don't find inaccuracy all that interesting so it doesn't get used. It would be fine for spray and pray or close range tactical uses, maybe three gun.

[thopkins22]

Does Wolf Gold use bullets with bimetal jackets?

[Delta-3]

I believe Wolf Gold is made in Taiwan & uses a lead core & copper jacket.

[markm]

I bought some Tula 55 gr from Bass Pro, pulled the bullets, chamfered the cases and put those 62 gr Hornady HPBT bullets in the cases. That made for a nice stout round for shooting off the mountain where I could not get my empties back. ("Mexican Match" sorta deal)

[Pi3]

What kind of accuracy did taht get you?

[Arik]

I believe Wolf Gold is made in Taiwan & uses a lead core & copper jacket.Correct. Wolf GOLD is just rebranded Taiwanese ammo. They used to use PPU for Wolf Gold and some of their calibers still may be but 223 is Taiwanese


Wolf steel case tends to be downloaded. I remember a friend of mine chrono'd their 5.45 and all came in at 7.62x39 fps.

[T2C]

I've used truck loads of Wolf steel case ammunition. The muzzle velocities are a little low and it shoots dirty. Wolf Gold 55g appears to be hotter ammunition, but I haven't chronographed it yet.

Chronograph Results Through 16" Carbine:

Wolf 55g FMJ Steel Case - 2713 fps

Wolf 62g FMJ Steel Case - 2811 fps

PMC 55g FMJ Brass Case - 2673 fps

Q3131A 55g FMJ Brass Case - 2964 fps

Sellier & Bellot 55g FMJ Brass Case - 3041 fps

Malaysian M193 55g FMJ Brass Case - 3065 fps

When I need to restock, I am going to purchase more Wolf Gold 55g. It shoots cleaner than the steel case ammunition and well enough to consistently ding 1/2 silhouette size steel at 300 yards. If I were on a tight budget, I would purchase Wolf WPA 55g.

[Ron3]

I sold my steel case .223. (Well, the vast majority of it)

It's just not worth the savings IMO. Stuck casings, popped-out primers, duds, weak loads, rusting casings, and possibly extra barrel wear.

I'll shoot Russian steel case in Russian guns and Glocks. That's about it.

Prices are bottomed out. The suggested Wolf Gold brass (Taiwanese as stated) is a good value. Better to have 750 rds good ammo than 1000 rds that is all junk. (Or 7500 vs 10000 etc)

[T2C]

I sold my steel case .223. (Well, the vast majority of it)

It's just not worth the savings IMO. Stuck casings, popped-out primers, duds, weak loads, rusting casings, and possibly extra barrel wear.

I'll shoot Russian steel case in Russian guns and Glocks. That's about it.

Prices are bottomed out. The suggested Wolf Gold brass (Taiwanese as stated) is a good value. Better to have 750 rds good ammo than 1000 rds that is all junk. (Or 7500 vs 10000 etc)

I've rarely experienced or seen those issues with Wolf steel case ammunition. I've heard about, but have rarely seen it. When I was going through a lot of Wolf 55g steel case, I was firing at least 6,000 to 8,000 rounds per year and other people I shoot with were going through more than that.

[markm]

What kind of accuracy did taht get you?

I was running an ACOG, and only chrono'd them. Didn't have a 223 with good glass. But historically, subbing good bullets in Tula/Herters has been successful. Everything about that ammo is good, except the bullets. I have 20 more. I might shoot them for accuracy if Pappabear brings out the 5R rem 700 this weekend.

[thopkins22]

I've rarely experienced or seen those issues with Wolf steel case ammunition. I've heard about, but have rarely seen it.

Ditto. I’ve “heard” all sorts of nightmares, but every gun I’ve seen that wasn’t specifically set up for something else ran it just fine. I will say that there are certain magazines that have may not perform well with steel that might be flawless with brass(Surefire is the one I’m talking about,) but that’s to be expected once you’re that far off the beaten path of USGI/NHMTG/Colt/PMAGs.

I have shot a lot of Hornady Steel Match in my day which proved to be pretty reliably 1 MOA-ish in my old competition rifle. Not handload good, and I’m sure there are boutique loads that outperform it, but I think it lends credence to the idea that perfectly forming cases and so forth is not the biggest factor in accuracy. Bullet quality, runout/concentricity, consistent ignition, and depending on the bullet style the seating depth are far more important than the case or even a perfectly consistent powder charge(coming from a guy who owns and likes a chargemaster.)

Maybe an adjustable gas block gun might not run it on suppressed or normal, but in my experience they do well with it.

I shoot it in AK’s, Glocks, and before I was reloading I shot many thousands of Hornady Steel Match ammo through it with matches on the line and in training with the same rifle...which had a Wylde chamber. No issues whatsoever except a couple of malfunctions with a Surefire 60 round magazine. I have never gone to a class with it, because I could always find Prvi at a price that was acceptable to me, but I would not hesitate to do so.

Any premature wear concerns have nothing to do with the steel case(even if they did the only thing to replace early is the extractor...and a BCM rebuild kit is $30.) What has been shown to wear barrels out earlier is the bimetal jackets...but every single time it’s shown you could have saved so much money in ammo that you could have bought a new barrel and still be ahead of the game.

I can’t say if that math works out with some of the cheaper brass cased stuff that’s available in the absence of a panic, but it certainly was true at one point.

[Ron3]

I've rarely experienced or seen those issues with Wolf steel case ammunition. I've heard about, but have rarely seen it. When I was going through a lot of Wolf 55g steel case, I was firing at least 6,000 to 8,000 rounds per year and other people I shoot with were going through more than that.


Dang. Ive had all of these problems. (Minus the wear)

I even had a round of Russian 9x18 get stuck in a hot Makarov after shooting a stage.
(IPSC match...for fun)

After three people tried to eject it, we fired it. Ejected fine. :)

Wolf also gets stuck in my S&W stainless steel magazines when nothing else does.

[Arik]

I've rarely experienced or seen those issues with Wolf steel case ammunition. I've heard about, but have rarely seen it. When I was going through a lot of Wolf 55g steel case, I was firing at least 6,000 to 8,000 rounds per year and other people I shoot with were going through more than that.Same experience as you but curious if it's such a problem why spend the money to shoot it in other guns such as Glocks and Russian guns?

[bigedp51]

There are many, many types and makes of barrels, many have chrome lined chambers and bores and others that are not plated.

Bottom line, a rough chamber can make any ammo hard to extract. So as stated in post #6 by Pi3 try the different brands before buying 2-3k rounds of "sticky" ammo.

P.S. Pi3 you must be almost as smart, good looking and modest as I am. :sarcastic:

[wanderson]

IMO wolf gold is so cheap and is such great ammo that it has not made sense to me to go to steel.
This. I stopped buying steel case since Wolf Gold came out for just a nickel more a round. No worries about ‘Will this run?’ and ‘Is a bi-metal bullet gonna ruin my barrel?’ Gold is WAY more accurate & consistent.

But if ya gotta have steel, get the stuff made in Barnaul. Not sure if all Wolf comes from Barnaul these days.

[Pi3]

Everyting but the good lookin part.:haha:

Last I bought was here, there may be a better deal somewhere. I don't reload anymore, but still pick up the cases for someone else. That partly offsets the savings of the steel. There's always someone happy to take the brass. Or you may start reloading in the future.

https://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/wolf-gold-223-ammo-1000rds.html

[T2C]

The cost difference between Wolf WPA and Wolf Gold at the suppliers I use is 7 cents per round. Depending on how much you shoot in one year, 7 cents per round may make a small difference or significant difference in your yearly cost. For me annual cost savings of $350 to $420 makes me take notice.

I am concerned about consistent A Zone hits or good hits on various paper targets used for training. For shooting inside 75 meters, I shoot a lot of steel case ammunition. For shooting 100 meters and beyond, I shoot Wolf Gold and other brass case ammunition. If all you're concerned about is dinging steel or getting 9 Ring hits on a B-27 at 100 yards, Wolf steel case ammunition works fine.

[Pappabear]

I was running an ACOG, and only chrono'd them. Didn't have a 223 with good glass. But historically, subbing good bullets in Tula/Herters has been successful. Everything about that ammo is good, except the bullets. I have 20 more. I might shoot them for accuracy if Pappabear brings out the 5R rem 700 this weekend.

Will do.

I have shoot a fair amount of craptastic ammo. It was 2-3 inch stuff and I show no respect to my nice rifles, they are force fed whatever. Ive dumped a full mag of Tula in 308 out of my MWS just to see if I could make it jam. no such luck:) Brown Bear trash was my goto years and years ago before Mark stockpiled 18 bazillion rounds in my garage. Our crap ammo these days is 62grain BTHP that shoots around MOA in everything and sub MOA from time to time.

I never had feeding issues with crap ammo. YMMV

PB

PB

[Pi3]

Off topic a bit. What steel case 9mm do you recommend for glocks?

[Arik]

Off topic a bit. What steel case 9mm do you recommend for glocks?It's all the same

[Ned Christiansen]

I thought all Russian ammo came out of the same huge plant, I pictured a factory the size of Manhattan, and at the the end right before it went out the door onto a never ending train, it got put into boxes with different brands, but.... not the case. I've had very good experiences with Wolf-- not Camp Perry trophies, no-- but it has worked very well for me for those times when the dif between 1/2MOA and 3 MOA means nothing, and let's face it-- for many of us, much of what we do is just that. Would I rather be shooting BHA, Federal, Hornady, et al, all the time, sure. But if Wolf was all I had, all I could find, or all I could afford, I would party on with no concerns. The 62 grain load has always seemed weak but works, the 55 grain has been good for me. I would not shoot a steady diet of anything but primo American ammo in a primo target gun.

The other Russian brands, I avoid as I have had issues with them in 9 and .223. I'm sure most here have seen Andy Tuohy's comparo on luckygunner.com, which really showed by way of barrel erosion and accuracy loss that the Russian ammo is harder on barrels, some much more than others.

[markm]

I shot the previously mentioned "Mexican Match" load yesterday out of the bolt gun. 62 gr horn hpbt over the pull down 55 gr Wolf components. 5 shot group was just over 2 inches. Not very impressive.

[Pi3]

That's a bit of labor for no better than 2" groups. It would be interesting to put the same bullest in some other cases for comparison.

[markm]

That's a bit of labor for no better than 2" groups. It would be interesting to put the same bullest in some other cases for comparison.

It shoots much better in regular hand loads. The reason for this batch of ammo was so I could shoot at the top of a rocky mountain where my casings could not be retrieved.

[Pi3]

I forgot, I believe you mentioned that earlier. A good trick for that.

[markm]

I had better luck with Herters. But that was subbing in 77 OTMs. No real apples to apples comparison, but yeah... Not worth the effort for that level of accuracy.

[Ned Christiansen]

Fact about markm, and I quote: "I shoot at the top of a rocky mountain".

Question: Can he hit it? I would like to suggest putting a barn on that mountain, with a broad sides. Aim small, miss small ;-)

markm, I have had quite a bit of fun using Mexican Match in 7.5X55. The Swiss GP11 ammo is supposed to be so great..... for me it is "better than any other surplus ammo" but.... not as good as real target ammo. I mean I've had it go sub MOA but very often there's a vexing flyer (this in a blueprinted 700 but with factory barrel). Yank the factory 174 bullet, drop in 175 SMK's and NOW the flyers are gone..... haven't actually tried it but I almost think I could put 20 in a row into 1.3 MOA.

The Swiss 174's are interesting and it's not surprising they shoot as well as they do. Practically a VLD, very pointy, ample boat tail, but-- full-diameter shank is very short, maybe 3/16".... then ahead of the cannelure the ogive has it down to .299 in a very short distance. THey are steel jacketed with a really fine looking nickel plating.

[markm]

I really only Mexi Match in .223 due to having a press mounted bullet puller in that caliber. The Swiss love those steel jackets huh?

[Ned Christiansen]

I think it's about making kinder, gentler bullets that adhere to and surpass by 200% any and all conventions regarding bullets causing unnecessary suffering, etc. I believe that's why the French 5.56 was made the way it was made and the Swiss version of SS109 is non-deforming in the extreme.

I use the Hornady collet puller and it seems a very good product.