View Full Version : Aero precision lower issues
I'm having an issue with a bolt catch not consistently engaging with the magazine follower and depressing the follower allowing for the bolt to hold open on an empty magazine. The problem is intermittent. Sometimes the bolt catch engages the follower and sometimes it does not. The lower is aero precision. There are 3 possible culprits causing the issues.
1. Bolt catch is out of spec.
2. Magazine/follower is out of spec.
3. Aero precision lower is out of spec.
To eliminate the variables I isolated them.
First I tried different magazines, polymer and metal. Most magazines did depress the follower, but just barely engaged it. Others did not engage at all. The magazines were tried in a different lower and they worked correctly with no issues. Next I tried different bolt catches. I tried 3 different bolt catches. The results were the same, there was no improvement and the bolt catch still occasionally did not engage the follower. I tried two of the bolt catches in the other lower to see if they are the culprit, but all performed correctly with no issues.
So by swapping parts and magazines between two lowers I found that one lower, performed flawlessly with any combination of bolt catch/magazine. The other lower (aero precision), had failures with all combinations of bolt catch/magazine.
So I concluded the aero precision lower was slightly out of spec. After contacting aero precision they had me send the lower to them. They performed a quality control check, assembling the lower and said they found no issues. Currently the lower is in the mail back to me. I don't doubt they were able to assemble the lower and get the bolt catch to engage the follower. I was able to do the same thing. The problem is that it fails intermittently. It fails intermittently while other lowers, using the same magazines and bolt catches do not fail at all. I'm aware that it works most of the time. I didn't need to go through all this hassle for them to show me that it works most of the time. All machines have a certain amount of acceptable failure rate. If for example a handgun has one malfunction in 5000 rounds, that's a pretty acceptable failure rate. The failure rate of this lower is not acceptable to me. I'm disappointed it's acceptable to aero precision. Here are a couple pics of the issue.
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What magazines? The plastic one pictured looks kinda crusty. Can you post a picture using a newer mil spec magazine? MagPul doesn't count.
I can't post pics now because I haven't received the lower back yet. Aero stated they tried gen 2 and gen 3 magpul when they tested it. I have tried many different magazines from various manufacturers all with similar results. All the magazines I tested were also tested in another lower and functioned properly....bolt catch engaging the follower with plenty of "meat". The magazine in the first picture is a gen 2 magpul. It's new, I don't think I've ever used it. The only solution I can think of is a bolt catch that is slightly longer where it grabs the follower. I don't think that exists though. Just trying to figure a way to keep this lower out of the parts bin when it comes back.
You can go here http://biggerhammer.net/ar15/cad/ar15_receiver.pdf for a dimensional plan of the AR-15 lower. You can do the math and measure your lower to see if it's in spec. From first glance it appears that the "tit" on the bolt catch protrudes into the mag well even with the "step" in the mag well. That is the same position my BCM and DD lowers place the bolt catch. I have three Aero lowers of early production that are also the same way.
What brand of magazines? What brand of lower parts kit?
Sorry we posted at the same time earlier. Copy the brands of mags.
Here is a pic of one of my AP lowers using a DD LPK and DSG arms aluminum mag. Batteries are dead in my micrometer or I’d give you some measurements.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190214/dd3ab345b67525138d0ddb9f417398d3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190214/0615b5baa9dbacb6e2bc45fcb4204cd7.jpg
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The magazine in the second picture is a palmetto state aluminum magazine. I can't remember the lower parts kit I used. I used an ALG defense trigger, shouldn't matter though. The bolt catches I tried were POF, Spikes, and I think a palmetto state one. Same results with all of them. I think the problem may be with measurement "B" in the pic below. If this is off slightly it would move the bolt catch too far from the magazine well.
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Keep us posted on the results when your lower gets back.
Are those measurements calculated from the plans? The magwell dimensions on my D.D. lower jive with those, but the "B" distance on my lower is .1025" and the "c" measurement is .1640" This lower has the most bolt catch protrusion into the mag well of the lowers I have.
Keep us posted on the results when your lower gets back.
Are those measurements calculated from the plans? The magwell dimensions on my D.D. lower jive with those, but the "B" distance on my lower is .1025" and the "c" measurement is .1640" This lower has the most bolt catch protrusion into the mag well of the lowers I have.
Had a similar issue with an Anderson lower I was building a pieces parts gun on. The pocket for the bolt catch was too narrow and the catch-and I tried several, would bind slightly.
When gunsmithing, I was always taught to modify the cheapest part....So, I took the bolt catch out to my belt grinder and gave it a little kiss....a touch of aluma black and good as new...1500 rounds later and not an issue, runs like a top.
So, not ideal, ideal being a perfect lower, but, a reasonable fix.
Been contemplating a Aero lower for a clone build I’d like to do.
The more I see/hear/read these detailed accounts of out-of-spec lowers, the more my clone idea using Aero goes in the round file.
I have built 10 AR's, 9 of them using Aero Precision receivers. They're all made by CNC machines using the same computerized program with the same dimensions. Can't see how a few could be out of spec.
I have not had a single problem with any of mine.
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/manufacturing-and-oem
Freewilly5759
02-17-19, 14:40
I have an AR with an Aero lower as well, no issues. Maybe just a lemon?
I have built 10 AR's, 9 of them using Aero Precision receivers. They're all made by CNC machines using the same computerized program with the same dimensions. Can't see how a few could be out of spec.
I have not had a single problem with any of mine.
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/manufacturing-and-oem
This ^^^ Although I have only done 5 builds.
kwg
MorphCross
02-17-19, 20:06
It is because these components move from machine station to machine station and are set in their jigs by human hands that you will have dimensional variations. In the end it comes down to someone being on ball with the dimensional inspections with a +/- blueprint to check against.
Many years ago I was having a similar problem with an off brand lower. What I did was clipped a few coils off the bolt catch spring. Works flawlessly to this day.
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I'm not impressed with the customer service at aero precision. Their goal was clearly not to help a customer resolve a problem with their product. It seems their goal was to rule out their product being the problem and dump it back on the customer. There was obviously a lack of motivation for them to try to duplicate the problems I was having. That should have been the first step in diagnosing the problem...duplicating it, then you can isolate probable causes. That's what I did before I mailed it in. Instead they put a bolt catch in and tried 2 magazines and called it good. Would I have really went through the trouble of stripping the lower and mailing it to them if there was NO problem?....or if I knew they'd do such a poor, halfway, job in looking at it? They offer no explanation on why identical bolt catches and magazines installed on a different lower all function properly, but the same bolt catch and magazines produce different results in the aero lower. The customer is just an idiot...that's essentially their response??? It's really not difficult to reproduce the malfunction I am seeing. The slightest bit of curiosity and effort from aero precision would have produced the same problems I was seeing. I tested about 30 magazines. It's unlikely a magazine issue.
I'm sure most of aero's products are fine and have no issues. All companies produce a lemon from time to time. While aero may make quality products, the way aero deals with it's lemons shows the quality of the company.
The problem is you are talking about a $60 lower. They manufacture. They are not our personal gunsmiths. They can't be expected to replace every lower that comes across their desk although that would be the most cost effective method.
You were the guy that took the hit but in general Aero turns out tons of quality / price point gear.
Not to mention, trouble shooting random failures is a thankless job. Aero doesn't know who you are, they don't know if you are mistaken, they have a FFL item, they have a business to run. If someone gets on the Internet and says Aero replaced my lower that I never fully diagnosed then it's open season on Aero for everyone's issue.
Now if others begin to have a similar problem to yours then Aero will have a problem. You have had a problem, made it known, it's searchable, but as of now it's a one off. It sucks to be the guy that gets the one in a million, but it happens.
So what exactly happened? Do you have your lower back? "It seems their goal was to rule out their product being the problem and dump it back on the customer." That's what they are supposed to do. They are not our personal gunsmiths. Did you send them a combination of bolt catch, roll pin, magazines so they could re-create the problem with multiple varied components? Did you make a YouTube video showing them how you re-created the problem with multiple components? If you can build an AR and post on the Internet you could certainly provide them with that important information. In fact, when you get it back, I would suggest you do just that. Make a very clear video, use multiple components that fail, post it here. Maybe someone will see something and then you may have to go back to to Aero with that additional info. You are the gunsmith... not them.
I have seen this with many brands of lowers, mostly more budget minded ones, but from time to time it happens on more respected brands.
Since Aero won't help, my advice would be to buy a 9mm AR Bolt Catch and cut the engagement tab down to fit this out of spec lower.
FWIW, I don't like Aero products at all.
tb-av WOW...Really? Your post is so full of logical fallacies and strawmen I don't know where to start. The point of your post seems to be that I got a lemon but because aero is a manufacturer and it only cost $60 they aren't responsible for their products, and they make good stuff, just not mine, so I should eat it...and their justified in telling me that just cuz. Huh.
The problem is you are talking about a $60 lower.
That's irrelevant to whether the lower is in spec, and if they are responsible to fix their mistakes
They manufacture.
Irrelevant, see above
They are not our personal gunsmiths.
Strawman. I never asked them to be gunsmiths. In fact I did all the work for them. I tested all the relevant parts. I tested them against known in spec parts. I sent them photos and measurements of my findings
They can't be expected to replace every lower that comes across their desk although that would be the most cost effective method.
Strawman. No one expects them to replace every lower, just the defective ones, like mine. Also being cost effective is irrelevant to whether my lower is in spec and if they are responsible for their lemons
You were the guy that took the hit but in general Aero turns out tons of quality / price point gear.
I agree and said this in my post, but it's irrelevant to whether my lower is in spec and if they are responsible for their mistakes
Not to mention, trouble shooting random failures is a thankless job.
Makes sense...the job is hard so customers just have to pay for defective products....cuz the job is thankless...sound right to me
Aero doesn't know who you are, they don't know if you are mistaken, they have a FFL item, they have a business to run. If someone gets on the Internet and says Aero replaced my lower that I never fully diagnosed then it's open season on Aero for everyone's issue.
Strawman. No one expects aero to willy nilly send out new lowers to everyone who complains. I'm not arguing that or asking that. Also I did fully diagnose it.
Now if others begin to have a similar problem to yours then Aero will have a problem.
So a company only has to replace defective items if they sell a lot of items that are defective? So if you buy a washing machine and it doesn't work, whirlpool shouldn't replace it unless lots of people get washers that don't work...ok got it.
You have had a problem, made it known, it's searchable, but as of now it's a one off.
See above. Being a "one off" is irrelevant to whether aero is responsible for replacing defective products or the customer is expected to eat the cost.
It sucks to be the guy that gets the one in a million, but it happens.
I agree, it happens and it sucks. It sucks when companies act poorly and do not stand behind their products and tell customers to go pound sand...that's the point.
So what exactly happened? Do you have your lower back? "It seems their goal was to rule out their product being the problem and dump it back on the customer." That's what they are supposed to do.
Wow...I mean wow. You think a company's job is to dump faulty products back on the customer. I don't need to comment on that statement. It sums up your position pretty well.
They are not our personal gunsmiths.
Strawman. No one is asking them to be my personal gunsmith. I did all the "gunsmithing" for them. They did have to confirm my findings though. This is the issue though....they had no interest in confirming my findings and discovering the lower was the problem
Did you send them a combination of bolt catch, roll pin, magazines so they could re-create the problem with multiple varied components?
They asked me to send them the lower stripped, so I did. I sent pics, measurements, and emails detailing my procedure and findings.
Did you make a YouTube video showing them how you re-created the problem with multiple components? If you can build an AR and post on the Internet you could certainly provide them with that important information.
No I did not make a video. The pictures and detailed emails, and phone calls and measurements should be enough.
In fact, when you get it back, I would suggest you do just that. Make a very clear video, use multiple components that fail, post it here. Maybe someone will see something and then you may have to go back to to Aero with that additional info. You are the gunsmith... not them.
As stated before, they have all the information. I did all the work, and showed them the work.
I have seen this with many brands of lowers, mostly more budget minded ones, but from time to time it happens on more respected brands.
Since Aero won't help, my advice would be to buy a 9mm AR Bolt Catch and cut the engagement tab down to fit this out of spec lower.
FWIW, I don't like Aero products at all.
This is a GREAT idea. I don't have any experience with 9mm ARs so wasn't aware of the difference in bolt catches. I just looked up images of 9mm bolt catches and I'm pretty sure that's going to work perfect. Thanks, I appreciate it.
tb-av WOW...Really? Your post is so full of logical fallacies and strawmen I don't know where to start.
No problem. Let me know when you get your desired results doing it your way.
The $60 part you have misunderstood. None of which matters. Your mind is set. Good luck. Or should I say, sorry for the bad luck.
Yea if I had only made a youtube video it would have all worked out. lol. ok. Now I remember why I don't post on forums.
Yea if I had only made a youtube video it would have all worked out. lol. ok. Now I remember why I don't post on forums.
By all means do what you like. It's your money. Others have persisted and got the results they desired. I was simply trying to help you get what I thought you wanted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/4po5vp/aero_precision_received_out_of_spec_lowers_and/
I feel for you OP, that sucks and it’s infuriating when it feels like a company blows you off.
However, I’m a technician at a good auto repair shop and we often get cars brought to us that have intermittent problems.
Since we are paid by the job (flatrate), I cant spent too much time on one car or I don’t get a paycheck. It’s very frustrating for me and the customer when the car doesn’t play nice. Unfortunately it seems the lower did not play nice at the shop. I’m glad to see that recommendation about the 9mm catch. That’s a great idea.
I hope you get this sorted. I have loved all the Aero uppers, lowers and parts I’ve used.
Yea, intermittent car problems are frustrating. The scenario is more like taking my chevy to a chevy dealer when it's under warranty and them not fixing it. I spent money on a car, I want a working car. Besides, I've never taken my car to the shop with an intermittent problem and the mechanic, being unable to replicate it after an apathetic examination, return it to me and tell me that I'm wrong and the car is in perfect working order and I must be doing something wrong when I drive. Even if the guy does fantastic work 99% of the time I'd probably not go back to him any time soon.
One person at aero even suggested the gun was under-gassed and that could be the problem....lol. It's clear they don't know their head from their elbow.
Oh well, I do think the 9mm bolt catch is going to work though. I'll be ordering parts soon and give it a try.
By all means do what you like. It's your money. Others have persisted and got the results they desired. I was simply trying to help you get what I thought you wanted.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/4po5vp/aero_precision_received_out_of_spec_lowers_and/
Thanks, I checked out that link....sounds like we need to start up a GoFundMe for aero so we can buy them some calipers.
I have seen stranger things, but i have 3 Aero lowers and none have had problems.
No problem. Let me know when you get your desired results doing it your way.
The $60 part you have misunderstood. None of which matters. Your mind is set. Good luck. Or should I say, sorry for the bad luck.
:smile:
I have seen stranger things, but i have 3 Aero lowers and none have had problems.
That's good because if you ever get a lemon they won't help you.
bamashooter
02-24-19, 18:19
I have seen this with many brands of lowers, mostly more budget minded ones, but from time to time it happens on more respected brands.
Since Aero won't help, my advice would be to buy a 9mm AR Bolt Catch and cut the engagement tab down to fit this out of spec lower.
FWIW, I don't like Aero products at all.
That's pretty cool. 9mm repair tool. Reminds me of installing a 9mm / .38 super slide stop in a malfunctioning (lock back) 1911 when the .45acp slide stop doesn't quite reach the magazine follower. Hope you get the problem resolved OP.
Ymmv, but aero precision is one of the worst companies I have ever dealt with.
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