Noveske Light Recce Basic?

[CajunCourier]

I'm going to be purchasing my second AR15 and a friend of mine who's an FFL has a new Noveske Light Recce Basic that he'd sell to me at dealer price. It's got the fixed FSB, midlength gas, and 16" barrel. I prefer a basic look. How do Noveskes stack up these days? From the threads I've been reading Noveske seems widely considered to be "overgassed". Is this true, and what functional problems could this cause? Are there any other caveats with the Noveske that I should be aware of? I'm trying to get a top-tier AR. Thanks.

ETA: Another rifle he has that has caught my eye is an LMT SPM16. It's a more basic carbine but like I said, I prefer basic with top-tier quality. From the threads I've read on here, their FSBs are pinned with straight pins, they use a semi-auto BCG, and a carbine buffer. Some here have said it's corner cutting. How do the straight pins stack up to the taper pins for drilled/pinned FSBs?

[3 AE]

I have the upper receiver group of what you described and mated it to a Noveske Gen II lower receiver with parts that I spec'd out to help me manipulate the rifle from either side, along with a Geissele SSA trigger. I also shaved off the FSB so I could add a free float hand guard. I finally got around to getting a Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6 x 24 scope with a Bobro Extended QD mount to help me see what I want to hit! It's my version of a RECCE rifle. Personally I don't feel it's overpassed at all. It's noticeably smoother than my carbine gassed rifles. If you can get it a dealers cost, jump on it. It's a very fine basic Noveske. We from Oregon appreciate your business! :cool:

[vicious_cb]

I would not consider the Noveske a good value for price you are paying. The only thing that separates the Noveske from a something like a Colt is the FN CHF barrel which can be found all over the place for alot less, it isnt the 2000's anymore where only 2-3 mfg had them.

[Eurodriver]

I would not consider the Noveske a good value for price you are paying. The only thing that separates the Noveske from a something like a Colt is the FN CHF barrel which can be found all over the place for alot less, it isnt the 2000's anymore where only 2-3 mfg had them.

You seem to be implying that anyone who has an FN manufactured CHF barrel has the same product, and that one should merely find one at the lowest price.

Is that correct?

[CajunCourier]

I would not consider the Noveske a good value for price you are paying. The only thing that separates the Noveske from a something like a Colt is the FN CHF barrel which can be found all over the place for alot less, it isnt the 2000's anymore where only 2-3 mfg had them.


What would you recommend instead?

[vicious_cb]

You seem to be implying that anyone who has an FN manufactured CHF barrel has the same product, and that one should merely find one at the lowest price.

Is that correct?

I dont know what the Noveske specs are or QC requirements for their FN barrels other than gas port size and profile but they are charging quite a bit($450+) per barrel. To put in perspective thats Hodge barrel pricing range without stating using steels or processes, extra QC unique to their barrels, so no I can't really determine if their barrels are better or worse than the ones you see at places like Brownells. For me, it would be a stretch to pay that much more for a barrel without a pedigree of what they are doing differently than the rest of the vendors FN made barrels.


What would you recommend instead?

For "better than mil-spec" barrels you are better off getting a BCM or a DD in terms of a basic rifle. Both offer CHF and properly ported barrels(atleast DD's midlengths are).

[MorphCross]

Let's say Noveske works up a contract order from FN that has certain requirements. For example the barrel has to be made on a mandrel with a only a certain number of hammer passes, it has to have a double thickness of chrome-lining using a precise application process, it has to be made on the same steel used in their 249 SAW barrels, FN must send the steel mill certificates on to Noveske, it has to meet a certain chamber to muzzle alignment and concentricity, it has to pass a bore scope inspection of the rifling for smoothness, it has to me contoured to a chamber heavy non-government profile, it has to be high pressure tested, and finally it has to be magnet particle inspected. FN fulfills the contract order. Noveske does some end run work like installing the extension and drilling the gas port. Noveske advertises certain portions of what has gone in to the barrel.

Later PSA sees the amount of praise heaped on the Noveske barrels. They send in a contract order for the 249 steel barrels, with a double thickness of chrome-lining, high pressure tested, magnetic particle inspected, and finished in the government profile. As PSA is not in the business of manufacturing barrels on any level the have FN do both the extension and gas port drilling.

Are these barrels the same?

Just to be clear I am not stating this is how Noveske or PSA orders their barrels but I am pointing out things that can make a drastic difference from one contract order to another.

[vicious_cb]

Let's say Noveske works up a contract order from FN that has certain requirements. For example the barrel has to be made on a mandrel with a only a certain number of hammer passes, it has to have a double thickness of chrome-lining using a precise application process, it has to be made on the same steel used in their 249 SAW barrels, FN must send the steel mill certificates on to Noveske, it has to meet a certain chamber to muzzle alignment and concentricity, it has to pass a bore scope inspection of the rifling for smoothness, it has to me contoured to a chamber heavy non-government profile, it has to be high pressure tested, and finally it has to be magnet particle inspected. FN fulfills the contract order. Noveske does some end run work like installing the extension and drilling the gas port. Noveske advertises certain portions of what has gone in to the barrel.

Later PSA sees the amount of praise heaped on the Noveske barrels. They send in a contract order for the 249 steel barrels, with a double thickness of chrome-lining, high pressure tested, magnetic particle inspected, and finished in the government profile. As PSA is not in the business of manufacturing barrels on any level the have FN do both the extension and gas port drilling.

Are these barrels the same?

Just to be clear I am not stating this is how Noveske or PSA orders their barrels but I am pointing out things that can make a drastic difference from one contract order to another.

If it was during John's era at Noveske, I would say absolutely they are requiring top of the line specs from FN. The current Noveske, I would not be surprised if they lowered the requirements for their FN barrels and kept the same pricing. This is my just my opinion in terms of what Ive been seeing from them over the past few years so think about them what you will, YMMV.

[CajunCourier]

If it was during John's era at Noveske, I would say absolutely they are requiring top of the line specs from FN. The current Noveske, I would not be surprised if they lowered the requirements for their FN barrels and kept the same pricing. This is my just my opinion in terms of what Ive been seeing from them over the past few years so think about them what you will, YMMV.

What have you been seeing from them in the past few years that indicates a lowering in quality compared to when John Noveske was around? When Noveske first came on my radar, it was during the John era. I haven't kept up with any changes that may have happened since his passing.

[CajunCourier]

The LMT SPM16 is another available to me, but some aspects of it come off as cutting corners to me. The semi auto BCG, carbine buffer, straight pins in the gas block, and no parkerizing under the gas block. Each of these factors by themselves aren’t a big deal, but all of them put together just looks like cutting corners when a $800 Colt has all of these to mil spec.

Do taper pins make for a more durable setup than straight pins?

[Aetius]

What have you been seeing from them in the past few years that indicates a lowering in quality compared to when John Noveske was around? When Noveske first came on my radar, it was during the John era. I haven't kept up with any changes that may have happened since his passing.

I have been wondering this same thing. Many people refer to NRW after Mr. Noveske’s passing as if they lowered their standards. Is that true?

[TMS951]

Let's say Noveske works up a contract order from FN that has certain requirements. For example the barrel has to be made on a mandrel with a only a certain number of hammer passes, it has to have a double thickness of chrome-lining using a precise application process, it has to be made on the same steel used in their 249 SAW barrels, FN must send the steel mill certificates on to Noveske, it has to meet a certain chamber to muzzle alignment and concentricity, it has to pass a bore scope inspection of the rifling for smoothness, it has to me contoured to a chamber heavy non-government profile, it has to be high pressure tested, and finally it has to be magnet particle inspected. FN fulfills the contract order. Noveske does some end run work like installing the extension and drilling the gas port. Noveske advertises certain portions of what has gone in to the barrel.

Later PSA sees the amount of praise heaped on the Noveske barrels. They send in a contract order for the 249 steel barrels, with a double thickness of chrome-lining, high pressure tested, magnetic particle inspected, and finished in the government profile. As PSA is not in the business of manufacturing barrels on any level the have FN do both the extension and gas port drilling.

Are these barrels the same?

Just to be clear I am not stating this is how Noveske or PSA orders their barrels but I am pointing out things that can make a drastic difference from one contract order to another.

However Noveske may hypothetically spec thier barrels one part of thier spec is certain and it’s gas ports that are too big.

Spikes has the ‘same’ barrel with a better size gas port.

Which is better? Well less passes on the mandrel certainly sounds like a nice thing, but mil certificates on the steel?, diminishing returns.

I do know a shooter will certainly notice an overpassed gun vs a properly gassed one.


I do have to say I was considering a 270$ spikes barrel vs 425$ hodge barrel. Both FN 14.5” mid .0755 hodge .076 spikes gas port barrels. I was leaning spikes but your theoretical spec differences have me thinking hodge. Things like mandrel passes and muzzle bore concentricity have me.

[vicious_cb]

What have you been seeing from them in the past few years that indicates a lowering in quality compared to when John Noveske was around? When Noveske first came on my radar, it was during the John era. I haven't kept up with any changes that may have happened since his passing.

Poor machining all around which includes both cosmetic and dimensional issues on their receivers, loose and or crooked rails, opening up gas ports, lowering quality control in general, the loss of alot of their skilled employees. Basically simple things that would never have gone out the door under John. Im saying this full well that there are people on the board that personally knew John.

[CajunCourier]

Poor machining all around which includes both cosmetic and dimensional issues on their receivers, loose and or crooked rails, opening up gas ports, lowering quality control in general, the loss of alot of their skilled employees. Basically simple things that would never have gone out the door under John. Im saying this full well that there are people on the board that personally knew John.

So the gas ports are definitely larger now than they were under John? Are they still reliable rifles?

[sig1473]

So the gas ports are definitely larger now than they were under John? Are they still reliable rifles?

Yes, they are still reliable. I have 2 Noveske barrels made prior to John's passing and 4 after his passing. All are reliable and accurate.

[CajunCourier]

Yes, they are still reliable. I have 2 Noveske barrels made prior to John's passing and 4 after his passing. All are reliable and accurate.

If they are still very reliable guns, I may take the deal that's been offered to me. I've wanted a Noveske for a very long time, and some of the reasons are intangible. A friend of mine let me shoot his Noveske in 2010 and I've drooled for one ever since. Though I'm curious what vicious_cb has to say on the reliability of their rifles.

[vicious_cb]

So the gas ports are definitely larger now than they were under John? Are they still reliable rifles?

Yes they are still reliable guns, granted you dont get a bad one of the box which is the main issue people have been having. I know their current midlengths bbls are running gas ports over .080" which for me is overgassed. I have an older Recon barrel that isnt overgassed, but Im not about to spend 30 mins hammering on the dowel pin to measure it. The main issue isnt that they arent reliable but that you arent gaining anymore value from a current Noveske over a BCM or DD.

[CajunCourier]

Yes they are still reliable guns, granted you dont get a bad one of the box which is the main issue people have been having. I know their current midlengths bbls are running gas ports over .080" which for me is overgassed. I have an older Recon barrel that isnt overgassed, but Im not about to spend 30 mins hammering on the dowel pin to measure it. The main issue isnt that they arent reliable but that you arent gaining anymore value from a current Noveske over a BCM or DD.

Are Daniel Defense complete rifles good to go? I've heard of some QC issues with them lately. One such instance was the same friend with the Noveske that bought a DDM4V5 that the safety lever got stuck. He sent it back to Daniel Defense. Weirdest thing, at first I thought the hammer was just lowered but that wasn't the case. Probably just a detent spring issue, but still. Either way, the Noveske available to me is in the same price range as a Daniel Defense. BCM would certainly be less expensive, though I already have one.

[vicious_cb]

Are Daniel Defense complete rifles good to go? I've heard of some QC issues with them lately. One such instance was the same friend with the Noveske that bought a DDM4V5 that the safety lever got stuck. He sent it back to Daniel Defense. Weirdest thing, at first I thought the hammer was just lowered but that wasn't the case. Probably just a detent spring issue, but still. Either way, the Noveske available to me is in the same price range as a Daniel Defense. BCM would certainly be less expensive, though I already have one.

I dont know what pricing you are getting but if you really want one then get one, honestly they probably fixed the issue they had with whatever new company is cutting their receivers. Im just trying to put out a warning that current Noveske is a very different company than the John era Noveske so dont base your expectations on the older models out there.

[phixion]

On their website they're charging $950 for the complete upper/$1730 for the rifle? Can ANYONE justify that?

Yes, they're free to charge whatever they want, but... :confused:

[CajunCourier]

I dont know what pricing you are getting but if you really want one then get one, honestly they probably fixed the issue they had with whatever new company is cutting their receivers. Im just trying to put out a warning that current Noveske is a very different company than the John era Noveske so dont base your expectations on the older models out there.

The pricing I'm looking at for the Noveske is $1300. The DDM4V5 is priced similarly. On their websites they're both insanely priced at $1730-$1960. Thanks for the warning.

[WEK207]

I'll add my recent experience with Noveske. Less than a year ago I was in the market for a 13.7" barrel, and Noveske's CHF model fit the bill. I'm running an A5H2 buffer and I'm left-handed; it doesn't seem over-gassed to me but I'm not running a suppressor either. I wish I had measured the port before installing the gas block; I have no desire to unpin to measure it now.

I got a great deal on the barrel so the price wasn't an issue for me. Whether or not the value is there for a full-priced upper or rifle from Noveske is a personal thing. I can say that when funds allow, I will be picking up a 14.5" Afghan barrel to build another upper.

I should also note that my 13.7" is a hell of a shooter, far more accurate than I am capable of taking advantage of.

[CajunCourier]

I'll add my recent experience with Noveske. Less than a year ago I was in the market for a 13.7" barrel, and Noveske's CHF model fit the bill. I'm running an A5H2 buffer and I'm left-handed; it doesn't seem over-gassed to me but I'm not running a suppressor either. I wish I had measured the port before installing the gas block; I have no desire to unpin to measure it now.

I got a great deal on the barrel so the price wasn't an issue for me. Whether or not the value is there for a full-priced upper or rifle from Noveske is a personal thing. I can say that when funds allow, I will be picking up a 14.5" Afghan barrel to build another upper.

I should also note that my 13.7" is a hell of a shooter, far more accurate than I am capable of taking advantage of.

Thanks for telling.

I'm interested in anyone else who's bought a Noveske rifle/barrel lately too. I don't have my mind made up on the Noveske yet. It's between that, an LMT, or a Daniel Defense. I already have a BCM Mid 16, a Midwest Industries GI Carbine, and 1 home build consisting mostly of Radian, BCM, and VLTOR parts. They all have served me well over thousands of rounds, especially the BCM... but I'm lusting for something more high end.

[Stickman]

Noveske now is not the Noveske of old, but if for some odd reason you had any problems, they will still take care of you.

If you have wanted a Noveske, it seems like its the right time for you to get one.