View Full Version : Daniel Defense Manufacturing 99% of Everything In-house
Per email correspondence:
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense. Daniel Defense makes 99% of all items in house, with the exception of certain pins and screws that most firearms manufacturers get from OEM companies. But as for the bolts, bolt carrier groups, gas block, grips and other components, those are all made in house.
The owner was also in favor of fixNICS until customers turned up the heat
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/daniel-defenses-marty-daniel-changed-mind-fixnics/amp/
The owner was also in favor of fixNICS until customers turned up the heat
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/daniel-defenses-marty-daniel-changed-mind-fixnics/amp/
Marty made a mistake, and owned up to it immediately. He didn't pay people to run around online and cover up for him like another company did when they made more outlandish suggestions.
Prepare- I wonder if they actually do casting, I wouldn't think so, but that statement kind of alludes to it.
After posting this I've been told the email reply is not accurate. The lack of honesty around manufacturing is pretty childish IMO.
After posting this I've been told the email reply is not accurate. The lack of honesty around manufacturing is pretty childish IMO.
Elaborate please...
I still want a mk18 pistol before 2020.
Prepare- I wonder if they actually do casting, I wouldn't think so, but that statement kind of alludes to it.
Assuming the OP's quoted email is accurate. I cannot imagine doing the volume to support casting/forging/injection moulding in house. On the other hand he does HF his own barrels but I wonder if he chromes them in house. Maybe he does contract work for other industries in addition to building rifles.
ViniVidivici
02-19-19, 07:38
After posting this I've been told the email reply is not accurate. The lack of honesty around manufacturing is pretty childish IMO.
I agree, the smoke and mirrors involved with manufacturers is a joke.
Assuming the OP's quoted email is accurate. I cannot imagine doing the volume to support casting/forging/injection moulding in house. On the other hand he does HF his own barrels but I wonder if he chromes them in house. Maybe he does contract work for other industries in addition to building rifles.
There are only a handful of companies in the U.S. that can do industrial hard chrome, and I doubt Daniel Defense is one of them. The cost of entry into the industry, the tolerances involved, and the knowledge needed are too high for someone to decide to just start up their own hard chrome operation.
They also are not doing the casting of their receivers - the casting mark on my upper is proof of this. They do however do their own machining of their receivers. I say this as a Daniel Defense fan boy. My favorite AR is my Daniel Defense M4v7LW.
CajunCourier
02-19-19, 07:59
After posting this I've been told the email reply is not accurate. The lack of honesty around manufacturing is pretty childish IMO.
Do you have any more info on this? I was excited when I clicked this thread because I may be getting a DDM4V5 soon. It's fine if they don't manufacture 99% in house, but I would like to know specifics if they are being dishonest.
If it’s not true, could easily just be a clueless CSR. Definitely something to be fixed but not necessarily an indictment on the company.
I received a PM stating the info in the email was not factual. Since it was a private message that’s all I can say.
Mrgunsngear
02-19-19, 09:39
FWIW after I did my DDM5V2 review a former DD employee who's a viewer of mine contacted me about this topic. He said the goal for the AR-10s was to make everything besides polymer stuff in house. He also stated that initially they had some issues with materials treatment with the BCGs which caused the DDm5 project to be delayed for about a year before they finally felt they got it right. But, he said they do pretty much everything besides trigger components and plastic parts on the M5s in house.
Now, the M5s have been out for a couple years. So who knows what's happened since but I'm just passing along what I was told by someone that was apparently actually there.
The obsession with with who makes every single part in a gun is childish to me.
The obsession with with who makes every single part in a gun is childish to me.If DD did their own receiver casting / forgings in the house I would be suspicious, not encouraged.
Same for barrel chroming.
There's a big difference between having someone forge a receiver for you vs buying a premade receiver.
I also think you can take the "we make it all" too far. I don't like their polymer stuff, would rather see Magpul.
...They also are not doing the casting of their receivers - the casting mark on my upper is proof of this...
You mean forging marks. AR receivers are forged, not cast.
The obsession with with who makes every single part in a gun is childish to me.
Maybe it is childish. I digress. But it helps when comparing products to know as much about them as you can.
Who made all the parts in your phone?
Who made all the parts in your car?
Who made all the stuff in your clothes?
I understand its helpful knowing if a company is more of an 'assembler' of parts or also a manufacturer, but we are approaching ludicrous speed IMO.
If your interested I don’t see anything wrong with knowing what distinguishes a quality receiver or BCG from a PSA or a Anderson beyond QC. Awhile back I ordered some proprietary parts from Sig for a SIG516 and they arived in SIG packaging but said made in Taiwan. Had I known that beforehand I would have passed on the SIG. So it matters to some and others it doesn’t.
This is like the "Swiss Made" wristwatch conspiracy all over again, lol.
You mean forging marks. AR receivers are forged, not cast.
The aluminum billet you forge was first cast. I knew what he ment.
Doc Safari
02-19-19, 15:44
The obsession with with who makes every single part in a gun is childish to me.
I agree. Didn't some DD LPK's come with takedown pins that were out of spec a while back--like a few years back?
So much for in-house manufacturing.
The aluminum billet you forge was first cast. I knew what he ment.
I thought it was rolled.
Hammer_Man
02-19-19, 15:58
They don't product their own forgings, if you look at their rifles on the shelf you'll see Cerro Forge, Alcoa, and Brass Aluminum Forging marks on their receivers. My guess is that they buy raw forgings in bulk from whoever happens to have what they need in stock, and then perform final machining once they get them.
This is rediculous.
Barrels:
Mine iron ore and other raw materials
Manufacture steel
Roll/cast (not sure of process) into raw material for barrel blanks
Create blanks
Finish machining
Chrome line and phosphate
Assemble with extension and drill gp
Proof/mp test
How many of these need to be done in-house to claim “made in-house?”
I dont make barrels, so just educated guessing at the steps involved
ViniVidivici
02-19-19, 16:38
This is rediculous.
Barrels:
Mine iron ore and other raw materials
Manufacture steel
Roll/cast (not sure of process) into raw material for barrel blanks
Create blanks
Finish machining
Chrome line and phosphate
Assemble with extension and drill gp
Proof/mp test
How many of these need to be done in-house to claim “made in-house?”
I dont make barrels, so just educated guessing at the steps involved
You forgot heat treating, that barrel's gonna be garbage.😁
Yeah, from what I've read here and elswhere, everybody gets their raw forgings at a few places, then machines them. It's this final machining that makes a certain quality difference.
Ultimately, everybody outsources something, at some point in the process.
titsonritz
02-19-19, 16:55
You forgot heat treating, that barrel's gonna be garbage.��
Melonite will fix that.
While it may be stating the obvious, I don't think chroming anything takes place at DD. A little over a year ago they had a sale on their chromed BCG's. I ordered one but when it didn't come in short order and I called to check on the status (I took the ad as meaning they were in stock) I was told they were waiting for a batch to come back from being chromed.
WOW so what some of you guys appear to be saying is that you cant be a stock maker without owning a forest and planting trees?
I have yet to see GM or Ford make a tire but I do give them credit for making a car. Is there a point to this?
If you design, test, machine, inspect, assemble, warehouse and distribute in house then I believe you can say fully integrated. Beyond that its going to take something like Beretta Italy who at one time probably did it all down to the raw material.
I still want a mk18 pistol before 2020.
Is there a reason before 2020. New law or something?
Ok, so if you are 'manufacturing stuff 100% in house', does that mean you now have to make the machines and tools that help make them for your?
CAD machines, computer programs, etc, etc?
Otherwise you are just making stuff using other people stuff. Seems kind of shady to me.
:p
And then again you are making all that stuff in a building that someone else made for you.... :cool:
The gun industry is like gov alphabet agencies with all their secrets and lies.
MorphCross
02-19-19, 20:17
The gun industry is like gov alphabet agencies with all their secrets and lies.
But at least the gun industry makes something of value.
But at least the gun industry makes something of value.
Yeah, I just prefer to know for sure that what I buy is actually valuable beyond a name brand.
The gun industry is like gov alphabet agencies with all their secrets and lies.
Except the gun industry people are better at keeping secrets.
The aluminum billet you forge was first cast. I knew what he ment.
Don't assume the material used in the forging is a cast ingot. The primary reason to use a forging is to control the flow of the grain go maximize the strength of the part. Aluminum castings are porous with little control of the grain flow. It's more likely an extruded billet our flat forged billet is used so the grain will flow where they want it to.
Don't assume the material used in the forging is a cast ingot. The primary reason to use a forging is to control the flow of the grain go maximize the strength of the part. Aluminum castings are porous with little control of the grain flow. It's more likely an extruded billet our flat forged billet is used so the grain will flow where they want it to.
Maybe "cast" is the wrong word. Say you are making aluminum... You have this big pot of molten metal... You have to pour it into something... What would you call the process of pouring it into something?
Walker_Texasranger
02-21-19, 09:44
My dealer always has a lot of DDs in stock. Lots of the new pistols as well. They just got an M4A1 that I’m really tempted by. Something about quad rails.
SouthwestAviator
02-21-19, 11:17
My dealer always has a lot of DDs in stock. Lots of the new pistols as well. They just got an M4A1 that I’m really tempted by. Something about quad rails.
Just curious, what’s it going for?
And there’s nothing more proven than DD’s RIS II. I’ll take one of those over the in-vogue ultralight thin freefloat tubes with attachment slots any day.
Walker_Texasranger
02-21-19, 11:40
Just curious, what’s it going for?
And there’s nothing more proven than DD’s RIS II. I’ll take one of those over the in-vogue ultralight thin freefloat tubes with attachment slots any day.
I want to say it was 1650 but I could be wrong. Seems to cheap as I type that. Maybe it was 1850. They had an MCX and a couple DD pistols with LAW folding braces I was also distracted by.
Maybe "cast" is the wrong word. Say you are making aluminum... You have this big pot of molten metal... You have to pour it into something... What would you call the process of pouring it into something?
Cast aluminum doesn't have the grain structure aluminum gets its strength from. So, aluminum is rolled, flat forged, extruded etc. to get the grain running straight before being cut into billets to forge receivers from.
Cast aluminum doesn't have the grain structure aluminum gets its strength from. So, aluminum is rolled, flat forged, extruded etc. to get the grain running straight before being cut into billets to forge receivers from.
https://i.imgur.com/YzQPTJT.jpg
How much of a rifle does the trigger group make up? Because the DD5 uses a Giessele trigger.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://i.imgur.com/YzQPTJT.jpg
Isn't it wonderful?
Hammer_Man
02-21-19, 16:23
Just curious, what’s it going for?
And there’s nothing more proven than DD’s RIS II. I’ll take one of those over the in-vogue ultralight thin freefloat tubes with attachment slots any day.
Go to Brownell's, they're selling a version that doesn't have the lame DD furniture, or poop bronze Cerakote. Very close clone right out of the box.
Cast aluminum doesn't have the grain structure aluminum gets its strength from. So, aluminum is rolled, flat forged, extruded etc. to get the grain running straight before being cut into billets to forge receivers from.
You didn't answer my question. How do you describe the process that happens before it is as you say rolled, flat forged or extruded?? No way a receiver is forged from an S4S chunk of billet. Your "Nerd" status doesn't impress me. Please describe the process from start with finish with pictures. It's not worth arguing about whether or not DD has a foundry or not. They don't. It is about you blowing smoke with nothing to back it up.
Outlander Systems
02-21-19, 19:42
If a company isn’t hand-smelting, and mining the ore for their parts, than they’re not actually making anything. They’re just cutting metal. Doesn’t count.
Go to Brownell's, they're selling a version that doesn't have the lame DD furniture, or poop bronze Cerakote. Very close clone right out of the box.
Can you pm me a link to that, please?
Just curious, what’s it going for?
And there’s nothing more proven than DD’s RIS II. I’ll take one of those over the in-vogue ultralight thin freefloat tubes with attachment slots any day.
You say that, but I have a 14.5” Noveske barreled rifle with a RISII that weighs 10.8lb with a LPVO, WML, and sling, loaded with a 30. It can add up fast, and going forward most of my “build”s will feature a URX4 Mlok.
Sometimes some parts do matter. I bought a Dodge diesel truck not because it had Dodge badge on it. But because the engine had a Cummins label. Well maybe also because Dodge has a history (mostly) of not screwing up the Cummins too bad in assembly.
Most rifle companies are probably selling by reputation a “known level of quality” of parts selection and assembly and customer service rather than specific parts. Often though key parts like barrels and bolts can become signature components such as are
Remington’s 5R barrels, or Savage’s.
As long as a company stands behind their products and the products continue to perform as expected then who cares where the parts come from (aside from political concerns)? That is why it is devastating when a trusted manufacturer changes design, materials, or QC and customers discover by poor results.
I would rather see a company state it’s commitment to quality parts, assembly and service and submit their products to rigorous third party testing. I would like to see key parts marked with a “manufacturer” ID. Not the forge but who is standing behind the finished part? Barrel, receivers, bolt, carrier, trigger group, sights, etc.
We should remember that manufacturing is not the same as processing. Anodize is a process. Chrome lining is a process. Mag particle is a process. Heat treat is a process. Manufacturing is turning a bolt, or milling a receiver.
These days, especially if dealing with government contracts, many processors require a NADCAP certification to be able to perform their work. It's often not very cost effective for a manufacturer to do processing unless they are dealing with very large contracts with huge volumes of parts or if they are bringing in outside work from other vendors.
Daniel Defense is pretty big, but it wouldn't surprise me if they used outside processors just like pretty much every other manufacturer out there.
shadowrider
02-21-19, 21:22
We should remember that manufacturing is not the same as processing. Anodize is a process. Chrome lining is a process. Mag particle is a process. Heat treat is a process. Manufacturing is turning a bolt, or milling a receiver.
These days, especially if dealing with government contracts, many processors require a NADCAP certification to be able to perform their work. It's often not very cost effective for a manufacturer to do processing unless they are dealing with very large contracts with huge volumes of parts or if they are bringing in outside work from other vendors.
Daniel Defense is pretty big, but it wouldn't surprise me if they used outside processors just like pretty much every other manufacturer out there.
This post is spot on ^^^. Having worked in the aerospace industry and manufacturing for over 25 years I can about guarantee DD uses outside processing. And I'd lay money down that EVERYONE else does too for the very reasons stated here. When we source inspected parts we had to show certifications on all the processes done, inside and outside. WE were responsible for any discrepancies. We were the manufacturer. I'd say the same goes for DD, LMT, BCM and everybody else too.
Having a gun built by someone else with your own name on it like the old Sears and Montgomery Wards back in the day is a completely different animal. That's not what is going on today, not even close.
You didn't answer my question. How do you describe the process that happens before it is as you say rolled, flat forged or extruded?? No way a receiver is forged from an S4S chunk of billet. Your "Nerd" status doesn't impress me. Please describe the process from start with finish with pictures. It's not worth arguing about whether or not DD has a foundry or not. They don't. It is about you blowing smoke with nothing to back it up.
I'm not sure what you're driving at. When aluminum is processed it's smelted, then cast into ingots. All I'm saying is, don't assume that they simply cut a chunk from the cast ingot and send it straight to the forge. The aluminum may be extruded, flat forged etc. before going to the forge. The flashing is from the forging process. Not the casting process.
We should remember that manufacturing is not the same as processing. Anodize is a process. Chrome lining is a process. Mag particle is a process. Heat treat is a process. Manufacturing is turning a bolt, or milling a receiver.
These days, especially if dealing with government contracts, many processors require a NADCAP certification to be able to perform their work. It's often not very cost effective for a manufacturer to do processing unless they are dealing with very large contracts with huge volumes of parts or if they are bringing in outside work from other vendors.
Daniel Defense is pretty big, but it wouldn't surprise me if they used outside processors just like pretty much every other manufacturer out there.
Milling is a process.
Manufacturing is creating the fininshed product from raw materials. Who controls the processes is the manufacturer, even if one or more pricesses are outsourced.
MountainRaven
02-22-19, 23:02
Is there a reason before 2020. New law or something?
We have a presidential election coming in 2020.
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