View Full Version : Which full length rifle?
I want a full length AR with A4 upper. Between a Colt and Spikes Tactical, which one would you recommend? I know FN makes one but it's a little out of my price range.
Between those two, I'd choose a Colt every time, even for a couple hundred dollars more.
The Windham Weaponry R20GVTA4S-7 seems to be regarded rather highly.
My Colt AR15 A4 has been dead nuts reliable. Wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. I don't have any personal experience with Spikes.
I want a full length AR with A4 upper. Between a Colt and Spikes Tactical, which one would you recommend? I know FN makes one but it's a little out of my price range.
I didn't think FN was much more than the Colt, or was right around the same price, but I haven't been keeping up evidently. Given what you list, it isn't a contest really, Colt wins.
BCM may also be worth a look, though I'm not sure what sort of pricing you are looking for.
Colt and FN are the only two I would consider for such a rifle.
556BlackRifle
02-19-19, 02:31
Between those two, Colt for sure. FN would be a great choice if you can swing the $$$.
Renegade04
02-19-19, 06:22
Between those two, I'd choose a Colt every time, even for a couple hundred dollars more.
The Windham Weaponry R20GVTA4S-7 seems to be regarded rather highly.
The Windham indeed!
https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/20-govt-rifle/
I have two builds using the same upper assembly and two other builds using the same barrel assembly. Very accurate and this rifle will rival the Colt in every aspect.
bamashooter
02-19-19, 06:44
Between those two, I'd choose a Colt every time, even for a couple hundred dollars more.
The Windham Weaponry R20GVTA4S-7 seems to be regarded rather highly.
I have this particular WW. Deadly accurate and flawless reliability. Like my Colts, the trigger sucked and got changed out. Otherwise, an excellent rifle.
Aero when they are in stock
Hammer_Man
02-19-19, 10:09
Personally I would pick the Colt, but I would have no issues purchasing a Windham or BCM as a second choice.
Colt would have the best resale value.
very very happy with my windham weaponry
Renegade04
02-22-19, 08:13
Colt would have the best resale value.
This is always the lamest reason to buy a Colt or any other brand for that matter. If you are in the AR market to buy and sell, then you are not in it for the right reasons. You buy and build what gives you the best value for your money while fulfilling your needs/wants. If you are a fanboy of one brand or another, that is fine. Not everyone is. In the civilian A4 market, there are several good options available. Some are less expensive than others and some are a little bit better in quality, fit, finish, and accuracy. Most of these DO NOT have the Colt logo on them. When it comes to a really good quality A4, three names come into mind. They are BCM, Colt, and Windham Weaponry. Personally, I am not a fan of the big white BCM on the upper receiver. Not a fan of Colt products made in the past few years. That leaves the Windham Weaponry and that is what I, and some others, have recommended. They are a great value and a fantastic product with the accuracy and construction to back them up, not to mention the support you get from Windham Weaponry. They are in tune to the market and the customers. My decisions on buying or building never hinge on resale value. I suggest the same for anyone. Now, if you are a licensed dealer, that is different.
I have both the Colt & FN A4 and both have performed equally well. The FN did come with cheapo handguards though, whereas the Colt came with actual mil spec A2 handguards. I would also look at the Aero A4. It seems to have pretty good reviews and can be had for pretty cheap. I think Brownells even sells one from Aero with KAC M5 RAS installed for like $1000 which is a pretty good deal.
This is always the lamest reason to buy a Colt or any other brand for that matter. If you are in the AR market to buy and sell, then you are not in it for the right reasons. You buy and build what gives you the best value for your money while fulfilling your needs/wants. If you are a fanboy of one brand or another, that is fine. Not everyone is. In the civilian A4 market, there are several good options available. Some are less expensive than others and some are a little bit better in quality, fit, finish, and accuracy. Most of these DO NOT have the Colt logo on them. When it comes to a really good quality A4, three names come into mind. They are BCM, Colt, and Windham Weaponry. Personally, I am not a fan of the big white BCM on the upper receiver. Not a fan of Colt products made in the past few years. That leaves the Windham Weaponry and that is what I, and some others, have recommended. They are a great value and a fantastic product with the accuracy and construction to back them up, not to mention the support you get from Windham Weaponry. They are in tune to the market and the customers. My decisions on buying or building never hinge on resale value. I suggest the same for anyone. Now, if you are a licensed dealer, that is different.Not about buying and selling. But minds change, financial situations change, what you like today you may not want tomorrow.
Should you decide to sell or trade for something else later you'd want to get the most you can out of it.
vicious_cb
02-22-19, 09:56
Spikes is considered hobby grade around here. Handled alot, shot very little. Its not a bad thing if you're on a budget, I just wouldnt be grabbing it for something that went bump in the night.
Ergo they cant even get their specs right:
20" Rifle Length Barrel
MIL-B-11595E CMV
Chrome Lined
1/7 Twist Rate
1/2 X 28 Thread Pitch for Muzzle
5.56 Nato Chamber
.750 Gas Block Seat
M4 Feed Ramped Barrel Extension
Mil-Spec Phosphate Coating
HBAR/ A2 Profile
BCM makes a complete A4?
They used to. Although I haven’t seen a complete rifle available for a long time. Uppers occasionally show up in the wild.
I've noticed that among several folks (and some manufacturers) a Plain-Jane A4 and a basic A2 are often both referred to as "A2 configuration". Presumably because they look so similar?
Renegade04
02-22-19, 12:18
FYI, DS Arms now offers their new DSArms AR15 20" Service Series 5.56x45 NATO A4 Rifle - Knight's Armament Upgrades. It comes complete with KAC M5 RAS, rail panels, VFG, and MaTech rear BUIS.
https://www.dsarms.com/p-17082-dsarms-ar15-20-service-series-556x45-nato-a4-rifle-knights-armament-upgrades.aspx
Hammer_Man
02-22-19, 12:40
FYI, DS Arms now offers their new DSArms AR15 20" Service Series 5.56x45 NATO A4 Rifle - Knight's Armament Upgrades. It comes complete with KAC M5 RAS, rail panels, VFG, and MaTech rear BUIS.
https://www.dsarms.com/p-17082-dsarms-ar15-20-service-series-556x45-nato-a4-rifle-knights-armament-upgrades.aspx
That looks like a steal, but I'm not a fan of the HBAR profile barrel. I guess I all depends on individual wants and needs, though so I'm sure it would be a great rifle for somebody.
Not too familiar with the M5 RAS, but is it a snug fit over an HBAR?
I've noticed that among several folks (and some manufacturers) a Plain-Jane A4 and a basic A2 are often both referred to as "A2 configuration". Presumably because they look so similar?
No sir, it’s because people are IGNORANT in regards to the subject matter. I’m looking to buy a 20” A2 upper, it will complete my 20” collection and be set up like one I was issued a long time ago. If a company doesn’t know the difference between a flat top and a carry handle upper receiver, I have zero faith they know anything else.
Renegade04
02-22-19, 15:10
Not too familiar with the M5 RAS, but is it a snug fit over an HBAR?
The HBAR profile does not impact the fit of the M5 RAS.
Hammer_Man
02-22-19, 18:26
No sir, it’s because people are IGNORANT in regards to the subject matter. I’m looking to buy a 20” A2 upper, it will complete my 20” collection and be set up like one I was issued a long time ago. If a company doesn’t know the difference between a flat top and a carry handle upper receiver, I have zero faith they know anything else.
I had to build my own, but that's before I knew of Shark Arms. I believe I saw A2 uppers for sale last time I checked their website, you may want to check them out.
I looked at SA, no A2 uppers - did they sell out?
OTOH the Aero Precision A4 with KAS RAS on Brownell’s looks mighty tempting!
Hammer_Man
02-23-19, 12:55
I looked at SA, no A2 uppers - did they sell out?
OTOH the Aero Precision A4 with KAS RAS on Brownell’s looks mighty tempting!
I contacted them yesterday, and they are indeed sold out, however they should have barrels in stock in a couple weeks. If there is something you need, just email them.
BoyScout4Life
02-23-19, 13:24
Colt A4 for the win...!
any more out there?
any uppers with free float to reccomend?
Renegade04
02-23-19, 18:56
any more out there?
any uppers with free float to reccomend?
Here are several.
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/shop/complete-uppers/spr-sdm-uppers.html
uncleducky
02-23-19, 23:09
I personally have the Spikes Tactical ST 15 with mid length gas tube. I have been very happy with this rifle, and the only failures I've had with it were when I was new to the AR platform and tried loading a 30 round magazine, the bullet fed into the chamber but the bolt didn't go fully home. This has been the only failure of the weapon to date, (purchased in 2014 now has ~1000 rnds through it).
I have to ask: Will this be your first and only AR? Or do you plan on buying/building more in the future?
The only reason I ask is because depending on what your situation is either rifle will work for you. I have friends who have Colt 6920's because its the closest to what they were issued in the Army, and they are very happy with them. But they sit at home in a safe more than anything else.
The spikes sits next to my bed (we have no kids) and is my go to rifle should anything go bump in the night. I have no problem trusting my life, my wife's life, or anyone else's life to the spikes tactical.
With all that being said I am not a professional shooter. I am a hobbyist and an individual who believes in being prepared.
Something else I would throw out there is the S&W M&P 15... I know I know, my opinion is no longer valid. Everything I hear and read about the rifle is good to go from a performance perspective.
Considering the costs:
Colt 6920--- $1050
Spikes -------$875
M&P 15------$650
If this won't be your last rifle it may be better to go with the M&P, and spend the difference in ammo, mags, optic or training if you don't already have it.
But that is my two cents..
How come the Aero Precision A4 does not have a front sling swivel?
Well, took the plunge and ordered one of these from Brownell's ($973 shipped with promo). I like the A4 and I also like HBAR's (I know - sorry).
https://www.dsarms.com/p-17082-dsarms-ar15-20-service-series-556x45-nato-a4-rifle-knights-armament-upgrades.aspx
indianalex01
03-08-19, 23:49
I personally have the Spikes Tactical ST 15 with mid length gas tube. I have been very happy with this rifle, and the only failures I've had with it were when I was new to the AR platform and tried loading a 30 round magazine, the bullet fed into the chamber but the bolt didn't go fully home. This has been the only failure of the weapon to date, (purchased in 2014 now has ~1000 rnds through it).
I have to ask: Will this be your first and only AR? Or do you plan on buying/building more in the future?
The only reason I ask is because depending on what your situation is either rifle will work for you. I have friends who have Colt 6920's because its the closest to what they were issued in the Army, and they are very happy with them. But they sit at home in a safe more than anything else.
The spikes sits next to my bed (we have no kids) and is my go to rifle should anything go bump in the night. I have no problem trusting my life, my wife's life, or anyone else's life to the spikes tactical.
With all that being said I am not a professional shooter. I am a hobbyist and an individual who believes in being prepared.
Something else I would throw out there is the S&W M&P 15... I know I know, my opinion is no longer valid. Everything I hear and read about the rifle is good to go from a performance perspective.
Considering the costs:
Colt 6920--- $1050
Spikes -------$875
M&P 15------$650
If this won't be your last rifle it may be better to go with the M&P, and spend the difference in ammo, mags, optic or training if you don't already have it.
But that is my two cents..
And your 2 cents aren’t worth 1 cent. The thread isn’t about carbine or mid length. It’s about full size 20’. Do people even read the post?? Geez.
Go with the colt AR15A4
I know that fit and finish are usually secondary to other considerations, but the Windhams I've seen have been impeccable.
20". Yes indeed.
20 years ago I bought my first AR--Bushmaster's M16A2 clone. This was back when Bushy was a spec-grade rifle, more or less, and has been rocking ever since. It's still my main AR although I have others now.
When I whip it out at the range, everybody wants to shoot a few loads through it. Glad to see the A4 type coming back. There's something groovy about the big "infantry rifle."
Unless you're only bench-resting, you'll get tired of that HBAR pretty fast. Govt profile is preferred here.
That made my morning.
And your 2 cents aren’t worth 1 cent. The thread isn’t about carbine or mid length. It’s about full size 20’. Do people even read the post?? Geez.
Go with the colt AR15A4
I have a 20" BCM complete upper paired with a Sionics stripped lower with BCM LPK and recoil system, furnished with Magpul. It is the smoothest shooting 5.56 in my stable.
If I wanted to buy a factory 20" AR, I'd get the Colt AR15A4. The current state of Colt might give me slight pause, but overall it's still my first choice.
If FN offered an A4 without the rail handguard that would probably be a top contender as well.
Windham still comes across as cutting too many corners on their complete guns for me to buy one.... although I do have a Windham barrel in one of my guns and I've been quite pleased with it despite my purchase of it being rather grudging at the time. So perhaps my opinion on Windham overall will improve over time.
If I wanted to build one, I'd probably just get the 20" BCM upper receiver group and stick it on any decent lower with a rifle RE/stock on it... although in that case I'd use an A1 length stock.
FN had a Plain-Jane A4 with standard handguards (the "FN-15") but they discontinued it a couple years ago. It can probably still be found on Gunbroker and other sites.
uncleducky
10-03-19, 21:43
Thanks for calling out my ignorance on the subject. I should have spent more time reading and understanding the op’s question.
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