View Full Version : Benchmade anti gun?
Recently there has been an Instagram post in which Benchmade in a effort to assist a leo agency in Oregon but cutting up guns slated for destruction. And of course many people are up in arms that the company is anti gun.
Now knowing what kind of guns go in for destruction it doesn’t bother me like some, but what do you guys think, or have you even heard about this?
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If firearms used in crimes are ordered destroyed by the courts, someone has to do it. Unless Benchmade donates money to politicians who are the enemy of the Second Amendment or makes anti-firearm political statements, I will continue to purchase their products.
They have been funding anti-gun politicians for several years now so not just the 1 thing.
https://gununiversity.com/is-benchmade-knife-company-anti-gun/
They just got exposed thanks to their PD friends.
If firearms used in crimes are ordered destroyed by the courts, someone has to do it. Unless Benchmade donates money to politicians who are the enemy of the Second Amendment or makes anti-firearm political statements, I will continue to purchase their products.
As jsbhike said, they have been giving money to democrats for some time. It took this eff up for people to start looking.
You can see their political spending habits here:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000047693&cycle=A
They F'ed themselves in the A a bit here. They were getting pounded on FB and disabled comments on their page. In time this will blow over. I bet most people already forgot that Team Wendy hosted a campaign stop for HRC and are back to buying their stuff.
Personally I hope Benchmade folds and I can get a knife or two on deep discount during their going out of business sale.
Whiskey_Bravo
02-21-19, 10:51
If firearms used in crimes are ordered destroyed by the courts, someone has to do it. Unless Benchmade donates money to politicians who are the enemy of the Second Amendment or makes anti-firearm political statements, I will continue to purchase their products.
They have been giving almost exclusively to dems for a while. Also, not all of these guns were used in a crime, many were owner turn ins(not sure if that means buy back or just surrender). According to Oregon law they didn't have to destroy them. No matter what. It is terrible optics for them and they should have known that. Allowing a department to use your facility to destroy guns, take pictures, and then post it on Facebook is the height of stupidity.
The political donations just lost them my business, but I'm going to make them continue to honor their "Life Sharp" guarantee on my existing knives.
Lots of other knife sellers that don't support the enemies of freedom.
I almost totally despise social media but it has been useful in allowing our burgeoning population of numb skulls to endlessly skyline themselves.
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Whiskey_Bravo
02-21-19, 11:08
I would imagine their social media guy is pulling his hair out right now. Their FB page is a mess. They have shut down reviews and every post they have has thousands of people deriding their decision.
They F'ed themselves in the A a bit here. They were getting pounded on FB and disabled comments on their page. In time this will blow over. I bet most people already forgot that Team Wendy hosted a campaign stop for HRC and are back to buying their stuff.
.
No different than that mag company making drums for G3s and FALs.
I have three BM knives and will continue to use and own them.
My next knife purchase will be an Al Mar, just because their chairman Gary Fadden is an awesome guy.
I have three BM knives and will continue to use and own them.
My next knife purchase will be an Al Mar, just because their chairman Gary Fadden is an awesome guy.
Well as a Benchmade customer this is disheartening to say the least. I daily carry a Benchmade automatic knife, and prior to hearing this I would have easily recommended their knives to others.
They have been funding anti-gun politicians for several years now so not just the 1 thing.
https://gununiversity.com/is-benchmade-knife-company-anti-gun/
They just got exposed thanks to their PD friends.
This I was not aware of.
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If firearms used in crimes are ordered destroyed by the courts, someone has to do it. Unless Benchmade donates money to politicians who are the enemy of the Second Amendment or makes anti-firearm political statements, I will continue to purchase their products.
The “someone has to do it” as justification needs some re-examining.
Eh, Tim Leatherman endorsed Kerry/Edwards, but I still buy his tools cause they're some of the best. With Benchmade, there's a lot more options in the knife realm and Emerson gets my business for folders in that ~$150-200 price range.
This I was not aware of.
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No idea on any of it till this morning either. Saw the cutting mentioned on another forum. Did a search and the article on their other activities came up which I almost started a thread on here, but didn't.
Lol social media is melting down over this
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This is disappointing, although not entirely unexpected. Shitting on the 2A and gun owners is the new hotness.
I've been carrying Benchmade for years and was thinking of getting a Mini Auto Stryker in the near future, but now I guess I'll just spend that money on hookers, blow, and 45Colt.
Imma go have a moment of silence and a shot of Vodka in remembrance of that poor SKS. Farewell Comrade!
The “someone has to do it” as justification needs some re-examining.
Very much so.
Posted here before that the .gov vs. private citizen firearms sales is 30%-40% vs. 70%-60% so it never had made sense to me why the former gets fawned over by most firearms businesses. I would guess an even higher percentage of Benchmade's business is the unwashed masses based on their attempt to keep their real allegiance concealed.
This is disappointing, although not entirely unexpected. Shitting on the 2A and gun owners is the new hotness.
Unfortunately it isn't new. Prior to fall 2001, firearms business was 80% private/20% .gov and I was under no illusion about who the preferred customers were in most of the industry back then either.
I have 8-Benchmades. Disappointing to say the least. I emailed them last night, but I don't expect any response back, as they are probably in full social media damage control right now.
They didn't mind selling butterfly knives at gun shows (meaning to gun owners) when they started out.
Andy
Yeah, the destruction of firearms by the PD that was going to destroy them in some manner... Really didn't bug me.
The political donations? Never buying another Benchmade. I've been digging Emerson knives recently, so that's an easy switch.
Adrenaline_6
02-21-19, 12:52
ZT is quick to jump on this opportunity!
https://i.imgur.com/hXqxIpy.jpg
titsonritz
02-21-19, 13:05
I'm in Oregon City, used to go BM all the time, just bought a second Presidio 5000 a couple months ago and was going to pick up a Balisong (not anymore). This is bringing to light all their political contributions to the enemy. F'em, they're dead to as Dicks to me. Locally it is a shit storm.
How Benchmade Knives Betrayed American Gun Owners (https://www.prepper.org/how-benchmade-knives-betrayed-gun-owners/)
If you think about it...
why would a knife company be pro-gun?
They want you to use knives
titsonritz
02-21-19, 13:18
If you think about it...
why would a knife company be pro-gun?
They want you to use knives
I don't know a single person that carries a gun and does not also carry a knife. They shot (or stabbed) themselves in the foot.
I have one Benchmade, the Mini Grip. I'll not buy another Benchmade.
How many of you have leathermans or Russian/Chinese AKs?
I have an Infidel that I carry sometimes. It is more handy than a Microtech.
You can spend your money as you see fit but If my infidel breaks I’m getting a new one
Yeah, the destruction of firearms by the PD that was going to destroy them in some manner... Really didn't bug me.
The political donations? Never buying another Benchmade. I've been digging Emerson knives recently, so that's an easy switch.That's where I'm at
I don't know a single person that carries a gun and does not also carry a knife. They shot (or stabbed) themselves in the foot.I don't always. Kinda indifferent to knives. I carried one for a little bit 10 years ago or so then stopped. Have been carrying one last few months. To be quite honest I almost never use it
MountainRaven
02-21-19, 13:54
Yeah, the destruction of firearms by the PD that was going to destroy them in some manner... Really didn't bug me.
The political donations? Never buying another Benchmade. I've been digging Emerson knives recently, so that's an easy switch.
Why would you buy an Emerson? Shoddy QC and ridiculous prices for the steels they're using. If you like Emerson's wave feature, get a ZT. If you like Emerson's knife designs, get a Kershaw or a ZT. Better QC, better steels, at better prices.
How many of you have leathermans or Russian/Chinese AKs?
I have an Infidel that I carry sometimes. It is more handy than a Microtech.
You can spend your money as you see fit but If my infidel breaks I’m getting a new one
This.
Don't forget to add Turkish guns, German guns, Austrian guns, Italian guns, Belgian guns, Bulgarian guns, Colt, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and nearly every other gun maker or importer located in New England, Illinois, California, &c. ZT and Kershaw are owned by Kai Group, which is based in Japan and if you thought it was hard being a gun owner in Europe, California, or New England...
If you stopped supporting everyone whose put a dime toward anti-gun politicos, you'd have to become a hermit in the woods, making everything you have (including tools) from what's available to you right there.
Hell, y'all voted for Trump, and he gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to Schumer and Hillary right up until Hillary lost to Obama.
Why would you buy an Emerson?
Because the ones I own are quality knives, at a price I was comfortable paying, and with my money going to a company that appears to have their interests aligned with my own. Thanks for your concern chief!
BM made their decision, now I have made mine.
I prefer Spyderco, but don't even want to guess Sal's political affiliations. I also don't buy $200+ dollar knives.
How many of you have leathermans or Russian/Chinese AKs?
I have an Infidel that I carry sometimes. It is more handy than a Microtech.
You can spend your money as you see fit but If my infidel breaks I’m getting a new one
Ask me how many new Leathermans I have bought since that story came out.
I prefer Spyderco, but don't even want to guess Sal's political affiliations. I also don't buy $200+ dollar knives.
Same here and if I did the site right he was donating to Ben Carson.
Adrenaline_6
02-21-19, 14:40
I prefer Spyderco, but don't even want to guess Sal's political affiliations. I also don't buy $200+ dollar knives.
I like Spyderco too. I did own a PM2 once but sold it. Not because I didn't like it, I was offered a lot more for it than I bought it for. A CTS-204P sprint run. I wouldn't mind getting one in M390 or 20CV, but I own enough ZT's to really justify getting one...and those steels usually run knives in the $200+ range.
Yeah, the destruction of firearms by the PD that was going to destroy them in some manner... Really didn't bug me.
The political donations? Never buying another Benchmade. I've been digging Emerson knives recently, so that's an easy switch.
Although Benchmade is local to that PD, it seems odd the PD would hit up a knife maker to destroy firearms instead of a local gunsmith. Probably some personal networking going on between BM, City and PD rather than a normal business service solicitation.
Leatherman hosted a big regional welcome fund raiser for Obama along with Columbia Sportswear and I think REI. Sadly many of the Oregon businesses are in full suck up mode to the ruling Dem party concentrated in Multnomah county and only look to the countryside for sales revenue.
I was planning to get a mini version of the assisted Barrage this year but now I guess I’ll be looking elsewhere. I really like the Axis lock design. Any recommendations for similar solid lock? I don’t like the liner lock on most Kershaw knives except for light duty though I like several of their blade designs.
BM hasn't made a design I covet in years. I'll keep EDC'ing my 805 TSEK from the 90's and any new blade needs will be fulfilled elsewhere. There are FAR more options now than there were back then, so BM is superfluous.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-21-19, 15:15
Meh, you guys get too worked up sometimes.
Anyways,
Owned 3-4 Emersons back in the day, but the blades were brittle and chipped. Owned one or two Benchmades, thought the scales always felt cheap. The only folder I have left is a Spyderco Military. It's just a damn good knife.
I try not to get wrapped up in what political affiliations people have. Reminds me a bit of the Mccarthyism thread, but now used against Dems. If I like a product, I buy the product. I know my money may be going somewhere I wouldn't personally send it, but such is the nature of the world. You are all entitled to sell off all of your knives in anger, and I do hope I may profit from that decision.
Hell, y'all voted for Trump, and he gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to Schumer and Hillary right up until Hillary lost to Obama.
QFT.
I think many don’t realize this isn’t about Benchmade as much about unifying the 2a community around proper lines in the sand. That line is that the pro-gun position is no more compromise. The pro-gun position is not supporting cops and judges and politicians that do not stand up to unconstitutional laws. That’s the brewing storm.
It’s one thing for the colonists to buy guns from the brits. It’s another to say Benedict Arnold is no big deal. We need to see the difference.
I think many don’t realize this isn’t about Benchmade as much about unifying the 2a community around proper lines in the sand. That line is that the pro-gun position is no more compromise. The pro-gun position is not supporting cops and judges and politicians that do not stand up to unconstitutional laws. That’s the brewing storm.
It’s one thing for the colonists to buy guns from the brits. It’s another to say Benedict Arnold is no big deal. We need to see the difference.
Well said.
FlyingHunter
02-21-19, 16:54
I'm pretty sure Dicks doesn't sell Benchmade right?
This is happening on my hunting forum & thought I would pass along...fwiw.
Said a lot of the $$$ donated was to this guy...appears to be one of your rare pro 2nd dems:
https://schrader.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=322962
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00030071&cycle=2018
Little more #'s on the $$$$:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000047693&cycle=2018
It will be interesting to see how they communicate their way out of this...I'm a fan but have to agree a next purchase will be difficult unless something changes.
Hell, y'all voted for Trump, and he gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to Schumer and Hillary right up until Hillary lost to Obama.
Yes, but in Seven Spectrum Chess he was playing the long game, undermining Obama while giving Hillary the confidence she could win in 2016 ensuring he would run against her and win.
Yes, but in Seven Spectrum Chess he was playing the long game, undermining Obama while giving Hillary the confidence she could win in 2016 ensuring he would run against her and win.
Do you and Fly drink at the same bar? Pretty sure he used the same “insight” about his bride-to-be (no not the G48, the other one AOC).
“I want what they’re having!”
Cue the benchmade knife destruction videos in 3...2...1...
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I have over 40 of thier knives. Got my first when I 11. Got my 970 ta to when I was 13 and carried it for all my teenage years.
I’m totally let down. I have lost serious respect for them now.
I can’t say I won’t buy thier knives again, but I’ll certainly be merciless with thier warrenty and life sharp going forward.
Do you and Fly drink at the same bar? Pretty sure he used the same “insight” about his bride-to-be (no not the G48, the other one AOC).
“I want what they’re having!”
Pretty sure Steyr was being sarcastic... ;)
This is happening on my hunting forum & thought I would pass along...fwiw.
Said a lot of the $$$ donated was to this guy...appears to be one of your rare pro 2nd dems:
https://schrader.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=322962
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00030071&cycle=2018
Little more #'s on the $$$$:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000047693&cycle=2018
It will be interesting to see how they communicate their way out of this...I'm a fan but have to agree a next purchase will be difficult unless something changes.
The Senate candidates they supported in 2012, 2014, and 2016 are all outspokenly anti-gun (pro-AWB, pro-magazine ban, pro-UBC, etc.). In 2014 and 2016 they gave quite a bit more to the anti-gun guys than they did to Schrader.
If anything it may be that they were unconcerned with where a politician stands on 2A issues, but that's probably best-case and I doubt saying so will do much to repair their rep with anyone who isn't already looking for a reason to forgive them.
I don't know a single person that carries a gun and does not also carry a knife. They shot (or stabbed) themselves in the foot.
And I don’t always carry a gun, but I always carry a knife. I think this can be said of many others who carry a gun as well.
ramairthree
02-22-19, 03:33
Plenty of companies are pro gun and knives, etc.
For .mil and LE.
That’s where the big sales are.
And those price points are typically higher than civ sales.
Not as many companies are for non mil non LE types.
Around here, confiscated weapons get chopped by a local machine shop once the court is done. State law allows the judge to give the weapon to the arresting officer, but the admin does not allow it. Technically, if the judge gives it to the officer, it's a court order but they play along with the bosses.
One would think that if old duty guns are sold to the dealer/dist winning the bid, what's wrong with selling them the confiscated ones? A gun going through a legal sale and check is a gun going through a legal sale and check, regardless. The polititions see it as one less though, but that's one more to be made so I don't see the harm myself.
I don't know BM's political leanings but my guess is they have more appropriate tools to destroy the guns, like a good machine shop would have an Xton hydraulic press to destroy things. There's also a legal precedent on how they are cut/chopped, etc.
Around here, confiscated weapons get chopped by a local machine shop once the court is done. State law allows the judge to give the weapon to the arresting officer, but the admin does not allow it. Technically, if the judge gives it to the officer, it's a court order but they play along with the bosses.
One would think that if old duty guns are sold to the dealer/dist winning the bid, what's wrong with selling them the confiscated ones? A gun going through a legal sale and check is a gun going through a legal sale and check, regardless. The polititions see it as one less though, but that's one more to be made so I don't see the harm myself.
I don't know BM's political leanings but my guess is they have more appropriate tools to destroy the guns, like a good machine shop would have an Xton hydraulic press to destroy things. There's also a legal precedent on how they are cut/chopped, etc.They just want less guns in circulation. A few years ago Hawaii PD (forget which) chopped up their SW 5906 instead of selling them. Maybe 5-6 years ago a local shop was selling HK PSP parts from NJSP. ALL the PSP NJSP had got cut up instead of sold [emoji25][emoji31] but they did allow the sale of parts
Around here, confiscated weapons get chopped by a local machine shop once the court is done. State law allows the judge to give the weapon to the arresting officer, but the admin does not allow it. Technically, if the judge gives it to the officer, it's a court order but they play along with the bosses.
One would think that if old duty guns are sold to the dealer/dist winning the bid, what's wrong with selling them the confiscated ones? A gun going through a legal sale and check is a gun going through a legal sale and check, regardless. The polititions see it as one less though, but that's one more to be made so I don't see the harm myself.
I don't know BM's political leanings but my guess is they have more appropriate tools to destroy the guns, like a good machine shop would have an Xton hydraulic press to destroy things. There's also a legal precedent on how they are cut/chopped, etc.
That might fly, but the PD outed that part. Apparently doing that wasn't a great idea considering their customer demographics. When they got outed, people looked and They have been funding candidates intent on adding more to the pile to be cut up.
We’ll see if it even matters. I think it’s funny that Benchmade is under fire for this yet Surefire has donated to antigun politicians and gets a free pass for some reason
This is happening on my hunting forum & thought I would pass along...fwiw.
Said a lot of the $$$ donated was to this guy...appears to be one of your rare pro 2nd dems:
https://schrader.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=322962
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00030071&cycle=2018
Little more #'s on the $$$$:
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000047693&cycle=2018
It will be interesting to see how they communicate their way out of this...I'm a fan but have to agree a next purchase will be difficult unless something changes.
We’ll see if it even matters. I think it’s funny that Benchmade is under fire for this yet Surefire has donated to antigun politicians and gets a free pass for some reason
I did not know that.
I did not know that.
There’s a thread on TOS that exposes them donating to anti gun politician Loretta Sanchez and supporting magazine capacity bans and closing the ‘gunshow loophole’
Benchmade donates money to anti-American politicians? I won't purchase their products and encourage everyone else to do the same.
There’s a thread on TOS that exposes them donating to anti gun politician Loretta Sanchez and supporting magazine capacity bans and closing the ‘gunshow loophole’
That is good to know.
Plenty of companies are pro gun and knives, etc.
For .mil and LE.
That’s where the big sales are.
And those price points are typically higher than civ sales.
Not as many companies are for non mil non LE types.
Well, unfortunately, yes on who companies like, but no on where there money comes from.
The private market is most of their sales and this seems to be a wide spread thing (the Larry Vickers at S&B ad mentioned 60% private/40% .gov sales for them as an example). US is something like 65% private vs. 35% .gov post 9/2001 after being 80% private/20% .gov for years.
Sig is selling the Army pistols at what is believed to be a loss. SOPMOD butt stock contract cost is pennies on the dollar compared what private pays. LE contracts are typically the same.
Take Larry Pratt (GOA...someone trying to get rid anti 2nd amendment laws) and the most rabidly anti gun LEO (some areas you can add anti gun prosecutors and judges to this) in to random firearms businesses and let me know who gets 10-20% off most purchases vs. which one gets to pay full price every time.
There’s a thread on TOS that exposes them donating to anti gun politician Loretta Sanchez and supporting magazine capacity bans and closing the ‘gunshow loophole’I didn't know that, either.
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crowkiller
02-22-19, 10:35
We’ll see if it even matters. I think it’s funny that Benchmade is under fire for this yet Surefire has donated to antigun politicians and gets a free pass for some reason
I didn't know this thanks for commenting on this.
We’ll see if it even matters. I think it’s funny that Benchmade is under fire for this yet Surefire has donated to antigun politicians and gets a free pass for some reason
Human nature. People will attack one person or entity for things they let others slide on.
Name a major Firearms company that hasn't come under fire for donating to one campaign or another. But people tend to ignore that for brands they like and only focus on the others. Ruger especially comes to mind here.
Or name a politician who hasn't done similar. Hell Bush Sr. and Reagan did some seriously Anti 2A things yet most gun owners still love them. Same with Trump. Then we blast Democrats for even talking about it while ignore our own for actually doing it. Or if we do call thm out on it we quickly forget.
"The line in the sand" is really more of a slightly visible mirage that moves around a lot.
This isn't just the case with gun owners really. You will see it with every group, political or otherwise.
As for Benchmade. I don't see the issue with the OP. The donations seem troublesome but with our political system sometimes you have to play the game.
Human nature. People will attack one person or entity for things they let others slide on.
Name a major Firearms company that hasn't come under fire for donating to one campaign or another. But people tend to ignore that for brands they like and only focus on the others. Ruger especially comes to mind here.
Or name a politician who hasn't done similar. Hell Bush Sr. and Reagan did some seriously Anti 2A things yet most gun owners still love them. Same with Trump. Then we blast Democrats for even talking about it while ignore our own for actually doing it. Or if we do call thm out on it we quickly forget.
"The line in the sand" is really more of a slightly visible mirage that moves around a lot.
This isn't just the case with gun owners really. You will see it with every group, political or otherwise.
As for Benchmade. I don't see the issue with the OP. The donations seem troublesome but with our political system sometimes you have to play the game.Some of that is due to age. Most shooters 30 and under don't know what Ruger or SW did. Others, like me, don't search a companies political leanings when buying something. I had no idea about Surefire because I had no reason to look it up
The problem with Ruger has literally been buried.
S&W went under, largely due to their shenanigans, so always worth trying.
https://i.imgur.com/Iv0Z3v7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GrB66Xl.jpg
ramairthree
02-22-19, 12:54
Well, unfortunately, yes on who companies like, but no on where there money comes from.
The private market is most of their sales and this seems to be a wide spread thing (the Larry Vickers at S&B ad mentioned 60% private/40% .gov sales for them as an example). US is something like 65% private vs. 35% .gov post 9/2001 after being 80% private/20% .gov for years.
Sig is selling the Army pistols at what is believed to be a loss. SOPMOD butt stock contract cost is pennies on the dollar compared what private pays. LE contracts are typically the same.
Take Larry Pratt (GOA...someone trying to get rid anti 2nd amendment laws) and the most rabidly anti gun LEO (some areas you can add anti gun prosecutors and judges to this) in to random firearms businesses and let me know who gets 10-20% off most purchases vs. which one gets to pay full price every time.
Interesting.
I may be out of date.
There was a time when the majority of surfire light, pelican case, knife, optic, etc. pricing points seemed like they were meant for a dept. or service to foot the bill but not so much most people buying for themselves.
There’s a thread on TOS that exposes them donating to anti gun politician Loretta Sanchez and supporting magazine capacity bans and closing the ‘gunshow loophole’
I had no idea...good to know.
It looks like they did donate to her campaign in 2010, 2012, and 2014. The "Surefire LLC PAC" hasn't donated to any campaign since 2014:
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00464768&cycle=2010
Loretta Sanchez
http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Loretta_Sanchez_Gun_Control.htm
https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2016/may/11/loretta-sanchez/loretta-sanchez-dodges-question-about-gun-liabilit/
Sanchez has a D rating from the NRA, but has also taken flak from the Anti-gun crowd for supporting protections for the firearms industry from frivolous law suits.
It would be interesting to know why the folks at Surefire thought it wise to support her, but I doubt they'll be talking much about it.
SilverBullet432
02-22-19, 13:28
I had no idea...good to know.
It looks like they did donate to her campaign in 2010, 2012, and 2014. The "Surefire LLC PAC" hasn't donated to any campaign since 2014:
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00464768&cycle=2010
Loretta Sanchez
http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Loretta_Sanchez_Gun_Control.htm
https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2016/may/11/loretta-sanchez/loretta-sanchez-dodges-question-about-gun-liabilit/
Sanchez has a D rating from the NRA, but has also taken flak from the Anti-gun crowd for supporting protections for the firearms industry from frivolous law suits.
It would be interesting to know why the folks at Surefire thought it wise to support her, but I doubt they'll be talking much about it.
The Surefire memes are rolling on FB now..
Send them a email to tell them how you feel. I did.
https://www.benchmade.com/contacts/
thopkins22
02-22-19, 14:15
You pay for access. These companies are in states where a politician you want to see them support will never win. If they want to have the ear of someone, this is how you do it.
It sucks. It does not mean that they are ideologically opposed to guns or that they support these restrictions. It could very well be that they want to sway them another direction on a related issue.
I love that the gun community forgave Donny Trump for giving Hilary money based on absolutely no proof of him being a gun guy, but are willing to throw companies under the bus that have no public anti-gun stance, are kept in business by people that are pro-gun, and who donated money.
Hell Surefire sells more suppressors that are purely for fun civilian use than they sell that are intended for military use. No extra hoopla like so many body armor companies make you go through. Just what the law requires.
The problem with Ruger has literally been buried.
S&W went under, largely due to their shenanigans, so always worth trying.
Yes and I think there was backlash at the time on both firms. S&W had hard times and was sold to a smaller US company so I see no reason to ostracize them for decisions made by different owner.
Ruger management made dramatic changes after Bill was 6ft under. 20-30 rd mags, AR pattern rifle, explosion of semiauto pistol models. Again I see no reason to hold Ruger of today at blame for words and policies of old Bill. Ruger at the time didn’t cater to the newer shooting crowd so sales were not impacted directly but they had massive missed opportunity as evidence by their sales since making changes.
Boycotts do seem effective but it may take many years for pig headed owners/mgmt to change.
You do know those guns were to be destroyed regardless who did it, yes?
You do know those guns were to be destroyed regardless who did it, yes?
They could have refused or even earned points by pointing out how they turned the PD down on that. Would have kept people wrongly assuming they were pro 2nd amendment too.
You do know those guns were to be destroyed regardless who did it, yes?
Although I did pour one out for that poor SKS, yeah, I think most people do understand that part.
My question: Why are you upset at destroying guns used in crimes? They aren’t rounding up guns from gun stores.
These guns have been used in homicides or robberies or dope game. IMO they are tainted.
Some agencies resell, some destroy. Depends on policy or state law.
I have seen guns scrapped and guns resold. I have even seen some Berettas repurposed.
I really don’t see how this is a 2A infringement any more than shitcanning a car or reselling it is.
My question: Why are you upset at destroying guns used in crimes? They aren’t rounding up guns from gun stores.
These guns have been used in homicides or robberies or dope game. IMO they are tainted.
Some agencies resell, some destroy. Depends on policy or state law.
I have seen guns scrapped and guns resold. I have even seen some Berettas repurposed.
I really don’t see how this is a 2A infringement any more than shitcanning a car or reselling it is.I don't see tainted guns. It's an object. It has no moral compass. As an Eastern European Jew Ive owned lots of WW2 German guns and have no problem with the gun. It does not represent the user. I enjoy owning them.
That being said I don't have a huge problem with them destroying guns in this situation. I know a guy who works in a gunstore, former cop, very pro 2A but at his part time job at a machine shop they were cutting up NJSP HK P7. Not hos fault and the company is indifferent to it. Not because OMG ITS A GUN but because they have a contact with NJSP and sometimes it's guns
My problem is with their donations.
Oh my goodness, you all realize these donations are usually bribes and that you will be hard pressed to find companies who don’t donate to people you do not like.
I have given up trying even trying to fret over the injustices of the world
So it is ok for a company to engage in behavior detrimental to a segment of their customers, but it is not ok for those customers to shop elsewhere?
I missed where anyone was threatening to harm them if they engaged in the behaviors they chose to engage in as well as missing where anyone threatened to harm them if they continued to do so.
If firearms used in crimes are ordered destroyed by the courts, someone has to do it. Unless Benchmade donates money to politicians who are the enemy of the Second Amendment or makes anti-firearm political statements, I will continue to purchase their products.Well it looks like they do. Along with Surefire and EOtech.
So the money you give them goes into anti gun politicians pockets.
And I am sure more companies will pop up here shortly.
Some of these companies might make good products, but we need to support companies that support us, not against us.
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Well it looks like they do. Along with Surefire and EOtech.
So the money you give them goes into anti gun politicians pockets.
And I am sure more companies will pop up here shortly.
Some of these companies might make good products, but we need to support companies that support us, not against us.
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Be ready to not buy anything.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-23-19, 03:59
Be ready to not buy anything.
Or watch anything, or eat anything, or listen to anything, or drive anything, or wear anything, etc...
thopkins22
02-23-19, 04:39
Or watch anything, or eat anything, or listen to anything, or drive anything, or wear anything, etc...
People always talk about the left eating itself. The way I see it, we’re just as likely to do it these days.
Be ready to not buy anything.
I doubt everyone does though and buying used doesn't help them either.
Everyone adores the so called lesser of 2 evils game so it can be applied here too. $1000 rifle versus $900 rifle that perform the same function. Both companies support people who want to ban their rifles from being sold to the unwashed masses. Why pay $100 more for something that will just be taken by the group that received the same $1000 rifle for $800 or less?
If all goes somewhat ok and their goal of banning you from buying their $1000 rifle hasn't come to pass, then maybe pick it up from (gag) CDNN in a couple of years for a price more in line with their preferred client pricing and/or maybe someone who does value the 2nd Amendment will be able to buy the company out and go from there.
People always talk about the left eating itself. The way I see it, we’re just as likely to do it these days.
I have to wonder if black citizens, who were ok with picking up their lunch out back, ever voiced similar concerns.
Or watch anything, or eat anything, or listen to anything, or drive anything, or wear anything, etc...What do those have to do with anything anti 2nd??
I can care less about what those companies do.
Companies that make 2nd amendment related stuff, should be supporting it, not trying to destroy it.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-23-19, 10:20
What do those have to do with anything anti 2nd??
I can care less about what those companies do.
Companies that make 2nd amendment related stuff, should be supporting it, not trying to destroy it.
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Does BM make 2A stuff?
Does BM make 2A stuff?Yes. 2nd says Arms, not guns.
Even nunchuks protected by the 2nd in NY.
I am assuming BM is BenchMade.
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Does BM make 2A stuff?
It just says arms, not what kind. So yes.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/2nd-amendment-protects-knives-long-theyre-not-made-cooking-180957718/
Tench Coxe commented on it, although rather obvious "sword" was not just the edged weapon, but a euphemism for all arms and using them.
https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tench_Coxe
But even a paring knife company donating to an anti gun cause should be passed over for another that doesn't. For that matter, open it up to any other amendment as well. They are all there for lots of well founded reasons and 2 of us in particular (and their family and friends) recently learned of the utter contempt certain members of our society have for not only the 2nd Amendment, but the 4th as well.
https://youtu.be/vMPf-bq0bdw
Watching this and our fellow member's comments about the PD lacking an angle grinder to DIY the project made me wonder about something else since the initial incident is alleged to have nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. Does Oregon City PD heap praise on every business that provides a service for them...auto service, building maintenance, etc.....or was this a special case due to what was being done?
where they are who they support and donate and what they do ? reckon that says it all in combo not each one on its own but over time pretty easy to see what a company is really about vs what they say
Nix any claims it had to be done and nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.
Post#260 here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/benchmade-discussion-without-politics-or-insults.1644728/page-13
"Oregon law allows the resale of LEO confiscated firearms, and the funds benefit the department.
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.279
The OCPD Chief of Police has a department policy of destroying every gun they confiscate regardless of condition.
He is openly anti 2A, hence the original post and pics of BM chopping up guns."
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.279
4) The court shall release a firearm or other deadly weapon forfeited under subsection (2) of this section to the law enforcement agency that seized the weapon. The law enforcement agency may destroy or sell the weapon, use the weapon as a service weapon or use the weapon for training, identification or demonstration purposes. When a weapon is sold pursuant to this subsection, the law enforcement agency shall pay the proceeds from the sale, less the costs of the sale, as provided in ORS 131.594 (Disposition and distribution of forfeited property when seizing agency not the state) and 131.597 (Disposition and distribution of forfeited property when seizing agency is the state).
Doesn't look good for Benchmade... I'm more concerned with their donations than I am helping the police department out. I currently carry a benchmade and have been looking to upgrade to an auto folder. I'll be look elsewhere now!
Doesn't look good for Benchmade... I'm more concerned with their donations than I am helping the police department out. I currently carry a benchmade and have been looking to upgrade to an auto folder. I'll be look elsewhere now!
I wonder if the demil party is bigger than it may seem. They sure tried to erase evidence of it happening fast and when that didn't work they lied about it being a necessity forced on the PD by court order while in fact was a choice by the PD.
Be interesting to see how it goes for them.
Surefire released a statement by John Matthews, the founder & president.
Dear Customers and Concerned Citizens:
It has been brought to our attention that past political donations from the SureFire Political Action Committee (PAC) have been called in to question along with SureFire’s stance on the Second Amendment. Before we get to the facts we’d like to thank you for your support and we sincerely appreciate your loyalty.
It’s a long read but the details should provide a fuller perspective:
Established in 2010 and disbanded in 2014, the purpose of the SureFire PAC was to gain the support and assistance of our state representatives (both Democrat and Republican) so that we had a chance at (1) obtaining congressional funding to develop sighting technology that would improve the warfighter’s ability to aim crew-served weapons, and (2) to be able to reach out to our representatives when we need assistance doing business in California.
During its existence from 2010 to 2014 the SureFire PAC made donations totaling approximately $10,356 to Democrat representatives and $16,610 to Republican representatives.
It should be noted that we were unsuccessful in obtaining congressional funding for the weapon-sight development project mentioned above, and that all of our product development has been self-funded. But if you are a defense business that hopes to get congressional budget earmarked funding and/or program support for defense-related projects, you typically need to get the attention and support of at least one of your state representatives—or all of them if possible—so they can “represent” your interests during the budget appropriations process.
This is how business is done in the defense industry, by most medium-sized defense manufacturers, and by all of the large ones. And, it’s what we needed to do to achieve our mission of ensuring the safety, success and survival of our customers—whether military, law enforcement, or patriot-citizen.
In 2018 one of our employees donated $500 to the DNC Services Corp, a pro-Democrat organization. This was a personal donation, had nothing to do with SureFire, and despite the fact that we, as a company, are not aligned with his political preferences, we recognize his right to think differently and to vote as he pleases.
SureFire (as an organization) is 2A to the core. I myself am an NRA Lifetime Endowment member; our VP of Suppressors and Weapons is a veteran and world-class competitive shooter; our VP of Sales and Marketing is a veteran and competitive shooter; our VP of Military Sales gave 21 years to his country, 18 of them as an Army Special Operations commando; our graphic designers practice dry-firing and handgun drills in the office; our team-building events usually involve shooting; many of our executives and employees are concealed carry permit holders and carry daily. Most of us worry about how to live our 2A lives without running afoul of so-called “assault rifle” laws, reduced-capacity magazine regulations, and all the other restrictions we deal with as firearms owners, and as a manufacturer of firearms and firearms accessories in California.
We also support organizations such as the National Rifle Association, American Suppressor Association, and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, among others, and are proud of our long history of sponsoring USPSA, IDPA, 3-Gun and other shooting sports. Come by our office and you’ll see we share the same values as you do when it comes to the freedom to bear arms.
Our focus is on providing the warfighter, first responder, and armed citizen with the tools they need to win the fight, and we promise to keep making products that support the Second Amendment, the American worker, our economy, our military, and freedom in general.
John Matthews
Founder & President
Surefire released a statement by John Matthews, the founder & president.
Dear Customers and Concerned Citizens:
It has been brought to our attention that past political donations from the SureFire Political Action Committee (PAC) have been called in to question along with SureFire’s stance on the Second Amendment. Before we get to the facts we’d like to thank you for your support and we sincerely appreciate your loyalty.
It’s a long read but the details should provide a fuller perspective:
Established in 2010 and disbanded in 2014, the purpose of the SureFire PAC was to gain the support and assistance of our state representatives (both Democrat and Republican) so that we had a chance at (1) obtaining congressional funding to develop sighting technology that would improve the warfighter’s ability to aim crew-served weapons, and (2) to be able to reach out to our representatives when we need assistance doing business in California.
During its existence from 2010 to 2014 the SureFire PAC made donations totaling approximately $10,356 to Democrat representatives and $16,610 to Republican representatives.
It should be noted that we were unsuccessful in obtaining congressional funding for the weapon-sight development project mentioned above, and that all of our product development has been self-funded. But if you are a defense business that hopes to get congressional budget earmarked funding and/or program support for defense-related projects, you typically need to get the attention and support of at least one of your state representatives—or all of them if possible—so they can “represent” your interests during the budget appropriations process.
This is how business is done in the defense industry, by most medium-sized defense manufacturers, and by all of the large ones. And, it’s what we needed to do to achieve our mission of ensuring the safety, success and survival of our customers—whether military, law enforcement, or patriot-citizen.
In 2018 one of our employees donated $500 to the DNC Services Corp, a pro-Democrat organization. This was a personal donation, had nothing to do with SureFire, and despite the fact that we, as a company, are not aligned with his political preferences, we recognize his right to think differently and to vote as he pleases.
SureFire (as an organization) is 2A to the core. I myself am an NRA Lifetime Endowment member; our VP of Suppressors and Weapons is a veteran and world-class competitive shooter; our VP of Sales and Marketing is a veteran and competitive shooter; our VP of Military Sales gave 21 years to his country, 18 of them as an Army Special Operations commando; our graphic designers practice dry-firing and handgun drills in the office; our team-building events usually involve shooting; many of our executives and employees are concealed carry permit holders and carry daily. Most of us worry about how to live our 2A lives without running afoul of so-called “assault rifle” laws, reduced-capacity magazine regulations, and all the other restrictions we deal with as firearms owners, and as a manufacturer of firearms and firearms accessories in California.
We also support organizations such as the National Rifle Association, American Suppressor Association, and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, among others, and are proud of our long history of sponsoring USPSA, IDPA, 3-Gun and other shooting sports. Come by our office and you’ll see we share the same values as you do when it comes to the freedom to bear arms.
Our focus is on providing the warfighter, first responder, and armed citizen with the tools they need to win the fight, and we promise to keep making products that support the Second Amendment, the American worker, our economy, our military, and freedom in general.
John Matthews
Founder & President
Do you have a link to where it was posted?
Do you have a link to where it was posted?
It's on their Facebook page.
EDIT-- Also on Soldier Systems now: http://soldiersystems.net/2019/02/24/surefire-founder-john-matthews-responds-to-anti-2a-allegations/
Surefire released a statement by John Matthews, the founder & president.
Dear Customers and Concerned Citizens:
It has been brought to our attention that past political donations from the SureFire Political Action Committee (PAC) have been called in to question along with SureFire’s stance on the Second Amendment. Before we get to the facts we’d like to thank you for your support and we sincerely appreciate your loyalty.
It’s a long read but the details should provide a fuller perspective:
Established in 2010 and disbanded in 2014, the purpose of the SureFire PAC was to gain the support and assistance of our state representatives (both Democrat and Republican) so that we had a chance at (1) obtaining congressional funding to develop sighting technology that would improve the warfighter’s ability to aim crew-served weapons, and (2) to be able to reach out to our representatives when we need assistance doing business in California.
During its existence from 2010 to 2014 the SureFire PAC made donations totaling approximately $10,356 to Democrat representatives and $16,610 to Republican representatives.
It should be noted that we were unsuccessful in obtaining congressional funding for the weapon-sight development project mentioned above, and that all of our product development has been self-funded. But if you are a defense business that hopes to get congressional budget earmarked funding and/or program support for defense-related projects, you typically need to get the attention and support of at least one of your state representatives—or all of them if possible—so they can “represent” your interests during the budget appropriations process.
This is how business is done in the defense industry, by most medium-sized defense manufacturers, and by all of the large ones. And, it’s what we needed to do to achieve our mission of ensuring the safety, success and survival of our customers—whether military, law enforcement, or patriot-citizen.
In 2018 one of our employees donated $500 to the DNC Services Corp, a pro-Democrat organization. This was a personal donation, had nothing to do with SureFire, and despite the fact that we, as a company, are not aligned with his political preferences, we recognize his right to think differently and to vote as he pleases.
SureFire (as an organization) is 2A to the core. I myself am an NRA Lifetime Endowment member; our VP of Suppressors and Weapons is a veteran and world-class competitive shooter; our VP of Sales and Marketing is a veteran and competitive shooter; our VP of Military Sales gave 21 years to his country, 18 of them as an Army Special Operations commando; our graphic designers practice dry-firing and handgun drills in the office; our team-building events usually involve shooting; many of our executives and employees are concealed carry permit holders and carry daily. Most of us worry about how to live our 2A lives without running afoul of so-called “assault rifle” laws, reduced-capacity magazine regulations, and all the other restrictions we deal with as firearms owners, and as a manufacturer of firearms and firearms accessories in California.
We also support organizations such as the National Rifle Association, American Suppressor Association, and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, among others, and are proud of our long history of sponsoring USPSA, IDPA, 3-Gun and other shooting sports. Come by our office and you’ll see we share the same values as you do when it comes to the freedom to bear arms.
Our focus is on providing the warfighter, first responder, and armed citizen with the tools they need to win the fight, and we promise to keep making products that support the Second Amendment, the American worker, our economy, our military, and freedom in general.
John Matthews
Founder & President
So in the name of pragmatism, we gave money to people that want to disarm us and do other bad things. I guess they had to play the game to help the "warfighters". I just hope that doing it for the warfighters wasn't the equivalent of "for the children".
That is a good response. It is bothersome that companies that are pro 2A still justify funding politicians hell bent against 2A in order to get defense contracts. As much as I want our troops to have the very best equipment, not at the cost of propping up those working hard to take away the very rights our DoD is supposed to be defending.
Hopefully Surefire found this to be futile and will not restart the PAC except for politicians that will support both our troops and 2A. Very good statement by the founder.
So in the name of pragmatism, we gave money to people that want to disarm us and do other bad things. I guess they had to play the game to help the "warfighters". I just hope that doing it for the warfighters wasn't the equivalent of "for the children".
I find the honestly refreshing and respect it. I will spend my money on Surefire instead of Benchmade.
Andy
Honesty in such matters is always good of course, but fidelity to good foundational principles seems better IMO. Pragmatism is great when I'm working on my car or building a bridge, but it can get you into trouble when it comes to abstractions like "rights".
Honesty in such matters is always good of course, but fidelity to good foundational principles seems better IMO. Pragmatism is great when I'm working on my car or building a bridge, but it can get you into trouble when it comes to abstractions like "rights".
Yeah reading The Federalist Papers and other founding documents on the 2nd Amendment versus their response and history indicates, at best and giving them the benefit of the doubt, they have no idea what the 2nd Anendment is about.
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