Background Checks: EPIC FAIL with mass shooters

[Doc Safari]

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/22/former-military-leaders-push-gun-control-that-failed-in-illinois-california/


.... nearly every mass shooter of the 21st century acquired his guns via a background check rather than a parking lot.

In fact, the only mass shooters who did not acquire their guns via background checks were those who stole them.

The following is a partial list of mass shooters and high profile attackers who acquired their guns via background checks:

Borderline Bar & Grill attacker (November 7, 2018)
Synagogue attacker (October 27, 2018)
Parkland high school attacker (February 14, 2018)
Texas church attacker (November 5, 2017)
Las Vegas attacker (October 1, 2017)
the Alexandria attacker (June 14, 2017))
Orlando attacker (June 12, 2016)
the UCLA gunman (June 1, 2016))
the San Bernardino attackers (December 2, 2015)
the Colorado Springs attacker (October 31, 2015)
the Umpqua Community College attacker (October 1, 2015)
Alison Parker’s attacker (August 26, 2015)
the Lafayette movie theater attacker (July 23, 2015)
the Chattanooga attacker (July 16, 2015)
the alleged Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal attacker (Jun 17, 2015)
the Muhammad Carton Contest attackers (May 3, 2014)
the Las Vegas cop killers (June 9, 2015)
the Santa Barbara attacker (May 23, 2014)
the Fort Hood attacker (April 2, 2014)
the Arapahoe High School attacker (December 13, 2013)
the D.C. Navy Yard attacker (September 16, 2013)
the Aurora movie theater attacker (July 20, 2012)
Gabby Giffords’ attacker (January 8, 2011)
the Fort Hood attacker (November 5, 2009)
the Virginia Tech attacker (April 16, 2007), and many others.
The list of attackers who acquired their guns via background checks demonstrates the futility of looking at such checks as a way to stop violent attackers.

It must also be noted that California and Illinois have universal background checks, yet such checks did not prevent the February 15, 2019, Aurora, Illinois, factory shooting or the November 7, 2018, Borderline Bar & Grill attack.

As a part of this story:

Former military leaders are backing more gun control. This may be an indication where the military will side in the event of a nationwide gun confiscation order:


Former military leaders in a coalition with Gabby Giffords are urging Congress to pass the same gun controls that failed in Illinois and California within past few months.
Roll Call reports that the former leaders include former Coast Guard Commandant Thad Allen, former Aghanistan Commander Stanley McChrystal, and “former NSA and CIA director Michael Hayden.”

The group sent a letter to “to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer,” urging broad support for universal background checks.

Quoting their letter:


A prohibited person with dangerous intent can easily buy a gun over the internet or in a parking lot with no questions asked. For those of us with extensive firearms training, who have seen the damage inflicted by a powerful weapon in the wrong hands, this is simply unfathomable.

The former leaders did not mention universal background checks would do nothing to prevent “a prohibited person” from purchasing a gun in a parking lot or dark alley.

My take: The only weapon that is effective against lies is to repeat the truth over and over and over and over ............

[Wake27]

Just like politicians (because they are) - their qualifications that allowed them to rise through the ranks doesn’t mean they know shit.


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[MWAG19919]

IL does not have UBCs. We all must have FOID cards, to legally own/purchase firearms or ammo, but there is no legal requirement for private sellers to verify a FOID prior to a sale.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

IL does not have UBCs. We all must have FOID cards, to legally own/purchase firearms or ammo, but there is no legal requirement for private sellers to verify a FOID prior to a sale.

You can't legally have a gun in IL with out having had a background check done at some time because you have to check the FOID card.

https://www.gunrights4illinois.com/blog/how-to-sell-a-gun-in-illinois/

[jsbhike]

A couple more showing how background checks and any other infringement on private citizens owning arms won't prevent murders committed with firearms.

http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lutes-edward.htm

http://murderpedia.org/male.P/p/peterson-tyler.htm

[MWAG19919]

You can't legally have a gun in IL with out having had a background check done at some time because you have to check the FOID card.

https://www.gunrights4illinois.com/blog/how-to-sell-a-gun-in-illinois/

I’m aware of that, but that’s not the same as a UBC. UBCs mean I can’t sell a gun to my best friend without going through an FFL and filling out a 4473, which is not the case here.

[MWAG19919]

I agree that background checks don’t stop maniacs from wreaking havoc in gun free zones, but Breitbart is wrong about IL. Most people are, actually. Yes, we have what is essentially a gun permit, we wait 3 days for handguns (soon to be all firearms), and “assault weapons” are banned in Chicago, but we still have standard capacity magazines throughout the rest of the state. People compare us to CA and NY all the time but for now we’re nowhere near that bad.

But JB is gonna tread all over us :mad:

[docsherm]

I agree that background checks don’t stop maniacs from wreaking havoc in gun free zones, but Breitbart is wrong about IL. Most people are, actually. Yes, we have what is essentially a gun permit, we wait 3 days for handguns (soon to be all firearms), and “assault weapons” are banned in Chicago, but we still have standard capacity magazines throughout the rest of the state. People compare us to CA and NY all the time but for now we’re nowhere near that bad.

But JB is gonna tread all over us :mad:

How are all of those Suppressors and SBRs in IL? :cray:



But you are correct, Background checks do nothing to prevent crime. Every criminal had a clean background at some point in their life........ even if you have to go all the way back to their birth.........

[MWAG19919]

How are all of those Suppressors and SBRs in IL? :cray:



But you are correct, Background checks do nothing to prevent crime. Every criminal had a clean background at some point in their life........ even if you have to go all the way back to their birth.........

Forgot about that one... Yeah my SBA3 keeps me happy but I wish I could own a suppressor.

[sgtrock82]

I may have to go back and read the article later, I cant stop laughing at the "those of us with extensive training..." line. As if 50rds of 9mm per year actually counts as training. A few safety bulletins and powerpoints probably counts as the "has seen" portion.

In my day, officers pretty much phoned in the range days other than the junior Lt stuck as OIC. Badged experts too, all of them lol.



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[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Democrats see this and think: if we can't stop crazies from getting guns through UBC, then we need to outlaw guns altogether.

[Doc Safari]

Democrats see this and think: if we can't stop crazies from getting guns through UBC, then we need to outlaw guns altogether.

You win the internet for the day.

Just like Obamacare was deliberately crafted to fail so that people would clamor for "single payer" healthcare, all gun legislation is purposely intended to be ineffective so that the general public is eventually forced to conclude that the only solution is outright prohibition and confiscation.

[glocktogo]

I may have to go back and read the article later, I cant stop laughing at the "those of us with extensive training..." line. As if 50rds of 9mm per year actually counts as training. A few safety bulletins and powerpoints probably counts as the "has seen" portion.

In my day, officers pretty much phoned in the range days other than the junior Lt stuck as OIC. Badged experts too, all of them lol.

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Is there anything RO's dread more than O-5's showing up for annual quals? :suicide2:

[BrigandTwoFour]

Democrats see this and think: if we can't stop crazies from getting guns through UBC, then we need to outlaw guns altogether.

Was going to say the same.

Dangerous territory.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

If there is one thing we are all in agreement with, Democrat and republican alike: gun laws simply do not work.

[jsbhike]

If there is one thing we are all in agreement with, Democrat and republican alike: gun laws simply do not work.

I think they do what they are intended to do, but not at all what they claim.

[kerplode]

I think they do what they are intended to do, but not at all what they claim.

Exactly...

[BoringGuy45]

Democrats see this and think: if we can't stop crazies from getting guns through UBC, then we need to outlaw guns altogether.

That's the thing. We're better off letting the public think that background checks do work.

[Bulletdog]

That's the thing. We're better off letting the public think that background checks do work.

No. We are better off following the Constitution and BoR, and stopping all this infringement upon our rights, and invasions of our privacy for law abiding citizens.

[BoringGuy45]

No. We are better off following the Constitution and BoR, and stopping all this infringement upon our rights, and invasions of our privacy for law abiding citizens.

All in good time. We can't make an assault on the enemy capital until we push past the beach. That's why we keep losing. We want everything and we want it now. It took us 50+ years of leftist infringement to get where we are, and we're not going to get it back overnight.

We need to start with the major infringements, get them thrown out, then we can work our way to things like background checks.

[Bulletdog]

All in good time. We can't make an assault on the enemy capital until we push past the beach. That's why we keep losing. We want everything and we want it now. It took us 50+ years of leftist infringement to get where we are, and we're not going to get it back overnight.

We need to start with the major infringements, get them thrown out, then we can work our way to things like background checks.

I'm with you! Where's the beach? How do we get started? I keep voting, but no positive results from that so far... I keep talking and I've changed a few minds and planted some good seeds in others. I'm ready to take that beach and get moving toward the capital.

[BoringGuy45]

I'm with you! Where's the beach? How do we get started? I keep voting, but no positive results from that so far... I keep talking and I've changed a few minds and planted some good seeds in others. I'm ready to take that beach and get moving toward the capital.

I am too. First, a few things have to happen:

1) We need to believe that we can make a better future. Things look bleak, but the longer we do the whole "It's over, we're ****ed," thing, the less people are going to want to fight for what we need to fight for.

2) We need to realize that we can't turn back the clock. There never was a true "golden age" of America where things were nearly a conservative utopia. We've had severe problems and conflicts throughout our entire history. Don't try to revert to old ways; come up with new ways using traditional values. "Retro-classic".

3) Stop protesting laws on the grounds that they simply don't work. The whole "criminals don't care about laws" thing is true, but it's always countered with "Well if it saves even one life, it's worth it." We need to counter with how the laws are harmful to the public. We're not going to convince the far left and anti-gunners. But that's not our target audience. Our audience is the people in the middle who normally don't give guns a thought, and whose anti-gun opinions are simply recitations of what the mainstream media says. Push hard to educate people instead of declaring everyone a lost cause. Just like the left said, if a person hears something long enough, they'll believe it's true. We have the advantage of saying stuff that actually IS true!

4) Play the slow game. The anti-gun left has made huge strides over a longer period of time by constantly putting forward laws that are "common sense while respecting the right to bear arms." Let's counter with "common sense gun rights while respecting the need for public safety." Both are bullshit slogans, but play the game.

5) Biggest thing: Make it abundantly clear that social views are more important to us than fiscal views. I am ****ing sick and tired of the right constantly pushing RINOs on the ground that they're "socially moderate and fiscally conservative." Translation: They will either side against conservatives, or do nothing for them. Their main goal is the continuation of trickle down economics and policies that only help Fortune 500 companies, while occasionally throwing a small tax break to the middle and lower class just so it can look like they're doing something. Meanwhile, they push for things like bump fire stock bans and a willingness to at least "discuss" assault weapons bans and stuff. No more. I'll take a staunchly pro-gun politician with center to center-left economic views over a RINO any day. We need to stop trying to get guys who they think are going to steal seats or votes in CA or NY; that's not going to happen for awhile if ever.

[AlphaKoncepts]

IL does not have UBCs. We all must have FOID cards, to legally own/purchase firearms or ammo, but there is no legal requirement for private sellers to verify a FOID prior to a sale.

You're wrong on that one. When selling a gun you DO have a requirement to not only SEE the FOID card of the buyer and you do have the requirement to verify the FOID card using the ISP phone or website.

Currently, if you fail to verify by phone or website, there is no criminal penalty. However you open yourself up to civil prosecution. In other words you have civil immunity if you verify the FOID card with the phone/website. It is also important to note, that I said "currently" as there have been multiple attempts to make it criminal to not use the phone/website to verify.

Due to the requirement of possessing a FOID and because the FOID is 355 background checks a year for each person who has one, and the fact that you are required to at least see if not verify electronically; I'd say yes, Illinois does have UBC.