BCM Recce 16 vs Centurion Complete opinions wanted

[mattylight]

I was about to buy a BCM Recce 16 from Grant, then I saw the thread about the Centurion rifle and now I'm quite torn! Anyone have any insight on this topic? Centurion complete vs BCM Recce 16. Or is there another I'm missing? For a little backgroud, I'm looking for a good quality do it all type carbine (fully aware of the limits of that statement). The Price is flexible to a point, but I like simple and proven. It will likely get a vortex razor 1-6, backup irons, ect... Basically the "one" rifle, if you could only have one (not that I'm going to limit myself). Thanks for any help, long time lurker, almost never post anything.

[rockapede]

You can’t really make a wrong choice here. Obviously, BCM has a much more established track record as far as complete rifles go but Centurion has a long history of general quality with their products as well. If you’re evenly split between roll marks, I’d snag whichever is cheaper.

As far as others are concerned (since you asked), Sionics is worth a look. I just built an upper using their barrel and rail (would have bought a complete upper but prefer no forward assist receivers as a lefty). I’ve also used three of their LPKs. Very impressed so far.

[me2hootyhoo]

You can’t really make a wrong choice here. Obviously, BCM has a much more established track record as far as complete rifles go but Centurion has a long history of general quality with their products as well. If you’re evenly split between roll marks, I’d snag whichever is cheaper.

As far as others are concerned (since you asked), Sionics is worth a look. I just built an upper using their barrel and rail (would have bought a complete upper but prefer no forward assist receivers as a lefty). I’ve also used three of their LPKs. Very impressed so far.

I was about to say the same thing basically. I would give sionics a serious consideration. All three are good options.

[mattylight]

Thanks for the quick replies, I agree it looks like both would fit the bill pretty closely. I mostly wanted a second set of eyes on the specs. The main differences appear to be in the subjective areas: trigger, rail, stock, muzzle device, ect... I will look into sionics a look. I'm open to suggestions and first hand accounts.

[rockapede]

...main differences appear to be in the subjective areas: trigger, rail, stock, muzzle device, ect...

That’s exactly it and it’s exactly that: subjective. Those parts may change as your preferences change, so don’t get too hung up on them. As long as you start with a good barrel, BCG, and an in-spec receiver set (along with perhaps the most important feature: correct assembly) your rifle is likely to be solid. BCM, Centurion, and Sionics should all deliver on that front (as well as others; though the price points may be significantly different).

[Eurodriver]

I was just in the market and was found a used Recce 16 for less than a Centurion so I went with that.

Price would be my only factor making a choice between those two, as long as neither had any Geissele rails on them. (Yuck)

[BillB]

I was just in the market and was found a used Recce 16 for less than a Centurion so I went with that.

Price would be my only factor making a choice between those two, as long as neither had any Geissele rails on them. (Yuck)

Oh yeah? Where did you get it?

[Eurodriver]

Oh yeah? Where did you get it?

Haha, That was quick.

I was actually going to add “a perfectly maintained used Recce 16 in immaculate condition that shoots like a laser beam.” but figured you might not see it and didn’t want to make these fine people jealous.

[rockapede]

I was just in the market and was found a used Recce 16 for less than a Centurion so I went with that.

Price would be my only factor making a choice between those two, as long as neither had any Geissele rails on them. (Yuck)

Would you mind expanding on the Geissele rail thing? I own nothing Geissele but have considered their rails for future builds and had always been under the impression they were highly regarded.

[Eurodriver]

Would you mind expanding on the Geissele rail thing? I own nothing Geissele but have considered their rails for future builds and had always been under the impression they were highly regarded.

Objectively they are strong, but expensive.

Subjectively, I still have one, I’ve installed several, and compared to every other rail I’ve ever owned (KAC BCM, Centurion, DD, etc and even Larue) I think it is heavy, sharp, ugly and has a terrible feel.

I prefer literally any other known-quality brand (except ALG, lol) for rails than Geissele.

[rockapede]

Objectively they are strong, but expensive.

Subjectively, I still have one, I’ve installed several, and compared to every other rail I’ve ever owned (KAC BCM, Centurion, DD, etc and even Larue) I think it is heavy, sharp, ugly and has a terrible feel.

I prefer literally any other known-quality brand (except ALG, lol) for rails than Geissele.

Fair enough. I have no hands-on experience with them whatsoever. I have a KMR-A, MI Gen 3, and now the Sionics. I like the first two but the Sionics and its long barrel nut (lots of surface area) really impress me.

[SteveL]

I have a complete BCM 11.5" rifle plus a second BCM 11.5" upper. I also have a complete Sionics 16" rifle. I have no problem recommending either brand, however I prefer the NP3 coated BCG from Sionics no matter which brand of rifle we're talking about. I have no experience with Centurion, but given their reputation I would like to try one out.

For those talking about the Geissele rails, I originally put my Sionics together with a Geissele Mk8. I have no doubt it was very strong, but it was also very uncomfortable to hold IMO. When Sionics put out their own M-Lok rail I replaced the Geissele rail with it and I find that it's much more comfortable. I have no idea if it's as strong as the Geissele, but it's definitely strong enough for my use.

[BillB]

Haha, That was quick.

I was actually going to add “a perfectly maintained used Recce 16 in immaculate condition that shoots like a laser beam.” but figured you might not see it and didn’t want to make these fine people jealous.

Well you couldn't have gotten it from me. The one I had was a beat up old thing with a loose rail, rusted, no rifling and a bent barrel. Yours sounds real nice though. Congrats.

[mattylight]

One interesting thing which I am looking to clarify, is the status of cold hammer forged barrels on the Recce rifles from BCM. The Centurion is for sure hammer forged, Bravo doesn't seem to mention this spec on their site anymore, none of the complete rifles specify "BFH." On Grant's site their are both BFH designated Recce rifles (+$77) and there are non-BFH rifles. I have an email in to BCM in attempt to see whats up.

[nightchief]

If you go the BCM route, have you considered buying the lower and upper separately? Then you get the Hammer Forged barrel upper you desire, possible a little cheaper, saving the excise tax. I'm a fan of Sionics and have (wife does really) a patrol 3-E w/ LW barrel. Love it! I shoot it more than she does. Both BCM and Sionics have been trouble free rifles for me with several thousand rounds thru both. Never driven over one or dumped in the ocean like Euro, but they have run well thru a couple of classes. No experience Centurion.

[nightchief]

Objectively they are strong, but expensive.

Subjectively, I still have one, I’ve installed several, and compared to every other rail I’ve ever owned (KAC BCM, Centurion, DD, etc and even Larue) I think it is heavy, sharp, ugly and has a terrible feel.

I prefer literally any other known-quality brand (except ALG, lol) for rails than Geissele.

What do you have on your precision shooter? Is that the Geissele?

[ssc]

I have no experience with Centurion. I have experience with both BCM and Sionics. They are both good to go. However, in my interactions with both companies, the CS is 5 star plus with Sionics. Expeditious replies to emails and they answer the phone and are helpful, courteous and knowledgeable. BCM has good CS, but sometimes it can be a day or two for a response to an email and no phone contact.

Cheers, Steve

[SteveL]

I have no experience with Centurion. I have experience with both BCM and Sionics. They are both good to go. However, in my interactions with both companies, the CS is 5 star plus with Sionics. Expeditious replies to emails and they answer the phone and are helpful, courteous and knowledgeable. BCM has good CS, but sometimes it can be a day or two for a response to an email and no phone contact.

Cheers, Steve

I'm glad you mentioned this since I forgot to. This has been my exact experience as well. BCM CS isn't bad, but Sionics is among the best I've ever dealt with.

[Mr McSimon]

One thing with Centurion is that you can KNOW going in that if you need support after the sale, you'll get it, and directly from the top if you need it and didn't already start there. I can vouch for that from personal experience. I hear the same is true of SIONICS, though I don't have any personal experience with them. They have some official LEO contracts afaik, so they can claim to be properly vetted. BCM has also given me great customer care after the fact, but not quite as personalized as Centurion. I think that's just mostly a factor or each companies size though, and the stage of life cycle each is in. Can't really go wrong with any of the three imo.

[alx01]

My 2 cents:

customer service: Centurion over BCM every time. 100x better
reliability/service life: same
component quality/assembly: probably the same - much higher than the industry average
brand experience: BCM is much more widespread in firearms community, not necessarily better but more exposure
customizations: BCM - a lot more barrel lengths, types, muzzle devices, options and configurations. Centurion has a much wider rail selection.
rails: both are great, I personally prefer Centurion over BCM a little bit because of aesthetics and functionality. Both are very thin and convenient (in MLOK) for medium/large size hands. Centurion is slightly slimmer and has a QD built-in. For BCM you'll have to use one mlok section for a QD swivel. If you prefer a thicker handguard look somewhere else or go with the Quad rails of either brand.

Technical caveats:
- BCM does not pin their gas block, Centurion does - not an issue from the technical/reliability standpoint
- Centurion upper and rails do not have engraved/laser T-marks, BCM does - not an issue for me personally, but technically speaking not 100% mil-spec. I can see how some people might have a problem with it from the looks perspective.

Here is how I would _currently_ choose:
Centurion - if you want something unique/interesting and different from majority AND barrel and rail selection suits you. Their rails and barrels are excellent. Also if you want or value amazing customer service they have.
BCM - If you want a longer track record of reliability in the industry (not to say anything bad about Centurion reliability), possibly better resale value, specific barrel length/profile, muzzle device, or some other options which BCM offers.

I would personally lean towards Centurion as their current offering (price/features/value) is impossible to beat.

[Eurodriver]

This is neither meant to be a knock against, nor an insinuation that it is needed more often, but why do you guys have so much experience with CS at these companies for it to matter?

I have literally bought dozens of uppers from BCM over 9 years and emailed their CS once. I now usually buy my BCMs from Grant and have yet to need to contact him. I own Centurion and Sionics products and have never needed to contact either. CS matters of course but only to an extent. I don’t need a personalized email from Monty asking me how my weekend ha been, although a birthday card signed by IG would win me over for life.


What do you have on your precision shooter? Is that the Geissele?

Yes. I believe it’s a Mk4 although it’s been a few years and they are up to like Mk196 now so I’m not 100% sure. I like it for that role because weight doesn’t matter and it’s shot from the bench, bipod, or barricade 99% of the time. I had the same rail installed on a DD lightweight barrel and it felt clunky and “sharp”. I know the newer versions are better but personally if it isn’t getting a laser I like to run Magpul MOEs anyway. I’ve driven over a 6920 with the tires of a 4Runner going right over those things and they didn’t even wince.

I like the BCM KMR and think the A model while heavier is a step in the right direction from the original which would certainly not have held up to being driven over by a vehicle. Centurions rails are great, and their FSP cutouts are awesome for side mounting PEQs. I’m ranting now but I really don’t like threads like these because it turns into a brand fest.

Back on topic -

All the good companies (Sionics BCM Centurion) offer unique products far outside of “you can’t go wrong with any of them”. While that is certainly true, depending on what you’re using the rifle for you can go better with one over the other.

For example, if I were setting up a rifle for dedicated suppressed use at night I would, and did, get a Sionics RGP barrel with a Centurion rail and a BCM upper and complete lower.

The differences and value each of the aforementioned companies provide are present and tangible, but they are easily missed if your shooting day consists of lugging a pristine rifle case to your local 100yd static range before you go to the Chinese buffet.

At that point your brand “preference” comes down to things like who emails you more nicely, what roll mark looks better, and what brand will get you the most likes on Instagram.

[me2hootyhoo]

To guys that have experience with Centurion, how does it shoot compared to BCM and sionics? From what internet intel I can gather, it appears that Centurion is drilling larger gas ports than the competitors. Any truth to this? I would assume it would be noticeable shooting them back to back. That might be enough to sway me from one brand to another being all else seems to be equal.

[Firefly]

You know....I like my URX rails

[rockapede]

To guys that have experience with Centurion, how does it shoot compared to BCM and sionics? From what internet intel I can gather, it appears that Centurion is drilling larger gas ports than the competitors. Any truth to this? I would assume it would be noticeable shooting them back to back. That might be enough to sway me from one brand to another being all else seems to be equal.

Not sure if they still make it, but Centurion’s MK12 barrel was very, very highly regarded. They know how to spec a barrel.

[morpheus562]

My buddy was looking at both the BCM Recce 16 and Centurion rifle and ended up putting an order in last Thursday for the Centurion. With Geissele SSA-E trigger installed, the Centurion came in at $1,220. If memory serves, Centurion is using machine gun steel to make their chf barrels with twice the chrome lining similar to Noveske and Hodge.

I'm looking forward to getting pics once he gets it in and puts a razor 1-6 on it.

[mattylight]

So I decided to go with the Centurion, the main difference being the price and it having a CHF barrel. BCM replied back this morning saying that the only complete rifle they sell at this time with CHF barrel is the EAG spec, and that dealers are able to make "completes" by adding a CHF upper if they so choose. So for less than the BCM I got the CHF barrel and a Geissele SSA-E. Hope the wait isn't too long!! Thanks to everyone for the replies, and well considered opinions.

[sigmanx]

My personal opinion is BCM due to personal experience with them. No experience with centurion so I can’t comment on their QC standards.


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