View Full Version : Using the Magazine as a Monopod----Is It Harmful???
Dr. Bullseye
02-27-19, 18:14
Some people say it is fine to do this while others say it should never be done. Where do you stand on this? It would also be great to hear your reasoning.
Eurodriver
02-27-19, 18:21
No it isn’t harmful.
My reasoning is because it isn’t harmful.
I've seen a few malfunctions from weapons that otherwise worked fine. I suspect it's from overzealous handling when putting the weapon on the ground or table resulting in bent magazine lips. IMHO I would use it if needed to make a shot when it mattered but have never used it a standard practice.
bamashooter
02-27-19, 18:32
Contrary to some, it goes very well the vast majority of the time. I never saw a malfunction other than hitting the dirt / rocks, etc, hard with it. But I still remain paranoid with grasping it when firing as some do.
sierra 223
02-27-19, 18:38
Nothing wrong with it.
I wouldn't worry about it, especially with M3 PMAGS.
Doesn’t the military teach it? Not that the military never does anything wrong—just I wouldn’t expect they would teach something that could get someone killed due to a malfunction. This dude even did an article:
https://www.recoilweb.com/the-rifle-mag-as-a-monopod-53211.html
Sorry—I don’t know how to hotlink:
Kyle Lamb said it’s ok:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/shooting-with-your-magazine-on-the-ground/248036
Lastly, a link from M4Cabine.net archives:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-52827.html
If you need to drop down and make a shot real quick, it's fine. If you're zeroing or shooting for groups, I'd use other methods.
Coal Dragger
02-27-19, 18:42
Not an issue with a weapon that is well made and in spec where magazine well dimensions are concerned when using good magazines.
Get some tolerance stacking involved where the mag can bear up against the bolt carrier and you might have issues with sluggish operating. Probably an indication that your mag is out of spec.
If your gun chokes when mono podding it....You have a gun problem...
Got to wonder about the folks that said its harmful. I thought this was a well established fact that it was ok. And the don't cares...you might care ...someday.
Dr. Bullseye
02-27-19, 19:31
If you need to drop down and make a shot real quick, it's fine. If you're zeroing or shooting for groups, I'd use other methods.
That is exactly what I am doing, zeroing. I have a bad back and prone is the hardest position for me but it is the best to zero.
You gotta think some goofball forward "loaded" the mag with all 200 pounds and caused a failure-"unsafe". I have done so many a times with no issue. Its like dropping a Sig from over your head in perfect angulation then making it fire "unsafe". Not to start a resurgence of the 320 debacle, please no.
Use the mag and rock on.
PB
Doesn’t the military teach it?
I certainly do. On the Army rifle qual, part of the course of fire requires the firer to engage targets from the prone unsupported. The definition of “unsupported” in the manual allows for monopoding.
Also, its harmless.
Edit: I have seen ancient, worn out M16’s with highly suspect and equally ancient magazines have stoppages, that this practice may or may not have contributed to. That said, even with a below average hand-me down beater rifle, using mass loaded, doesn’t even belong to the firer magazine, its not a problem.
noonesshowmonkey
02-27-19, 20:58
An acquaintance was telling me that the institutional resistance to monopoding comes from the use of the M-14, which, due to the magazine and magazine lockup design, would jam if the magazine was allowed to rest on the ground. That training continued forward--good habits adapted to the wrong gear often do in big organizations--into the era of the M16 series of weapons.
In my agency, I got yelled at for having my rifle magazine resting on the deck during qualification. The lead instructor is a salty old marine, and he claimed that the weapon would jam that way.
That is exactly what I am doing, zeroing. I have a bad back and prone is the hardest position for me but it is the best to zero.
Get a 10 or 20 round magazine, use bags, you'll get a better zero.
As several have skirted around, the AR's mag-well is long/deep enough that if the mag-well and magazine are in spec, except in rare cases of tolerence stacking you shouldn't have a problem.
In any event you won't hurt anything, except maybe ding up a mag if you range surface is hard.
Doesn’t the military teach it? Not that the military never does anything wrong—just I wouldn’t expect they would teach something that could get someone killed due to a malfunction. This dude even did an article:
https://www.recoilweb.com/the-rifle-mag-as-a-monopod-53211.html
Sorry—I don’t know how to hotlink:
Kyle Lamb said it’s ok:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/shooting-with-your-magazine-on-the-ground/248036
Lastly, a link from M4Cabine.net archives:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-52827.html
Depends on who. The only guys who I’ve heard teach it have been around for a loooong time, and usually some of their other methods have too. Like downloading mags to 28 rounds.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Never had a problem using mag as monopod.
monty_d_33
02-28-19, 05:54
No it isn’t harmful.
My reasoning is because it isn’t harmful.
If your gun chokes when mono podding it....You have a gun problem...
^
These
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Never had an issue either, have also seen countless folks using it. Like someone mentioned, if you are still trying to squeeze that last .01 out of a magazine from 1970 and using a suspect lower, maybe. It took about 8 years but I finally wore out a Pmag, the mag catch tab is deformed and allowed it to apply more pressure on the BC. It took a while and plenty of abuse using free ammo. Mag #1 is done.
2000 and something called in on the helpline and wants it's topic back.
2000 and something called in on the helpline and wants it's topic back.
That's funny right there! Amazing how this issue persist and how it's repeated by folks who never even tried it. Some circles confuse not being allowed to use it as it constitutes "artificial support" in their minds with whether or not it causes an issue. Heck, I even hear some saying a 1n7 twist will cause a 55 grain bullet to blow up.
Heck, I even hear some saying a 1n7 twist will cause a 55 grain bullet to blow up.
Wait, you mean it won’t??
Renegade04
02-28-19, 14:45
Personally, I never made it a practice. I was never taught to use the magazine as a monopod when I went into the Marine Corps almost 41 years ago. We were taught to support our weapon in other ways and that has been good enough for me all of these years. I also never grip the magazine when shooting unsupported. That is what the handguard or forward grip is for.
A joke in Presbyterianism might apply here.
Everything has already been said...it's just that everybody hasn't said it yet.
If your gun chokes when mono podding it....You have a gun problem...
Absolutely. Tell that to Frank at POF. Particularly regarding the Revolution DI.
This is a competitor at the Army Championships at Benning. With the magazine monopod (or "Canadian Prone") position the upper and barrel are practically free-floating.
https://d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/090/193/large_v3/ac6273bc.jpg?1463779726
I disagree.
The initial zero should be done on the magazine with no sling in order to avoid shooter input and barrel flex. This method is being taught across the Marine Corps from the Rifle Team down to the basic Rifleman.
Travis Haley digs little divots in the ground for his mag and elbows so he can get as flat and stable as possible when he's zeroing and/or shooting for group.
I'm running a terrain based carbine program for my agency. Nothing fancy. Mostly sort of a marksmanship fundamentals using what's available for support. Many of the shooters get into a monopod prone since that's what they are used to now on the flat range. But that doesn't work too well for my class given the tall grass and uneven ground. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190301/6567e57179d844f893981718b833af8c.jpg
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
No it isn’t harmful.
My reasoning is because it isn’t harmful.
This is the answer. The thread should have been locked after this post.
mgennardo83
03-01-19, 18:38
An acquaintance was telling me that the institutional resistance to monopoding comes from the use of the M-14, which, due to the magazine and magazine lockup design, would jam if the magazine was allowed to rest on the ground. That training continued forward--good habits adapted to the wrong gear often do in big organizations--into the era of the M16 series of weapons.
In my agency, I got yelled at for having my rifle magazine resting on the deck during qualification. The lead instructor is a salty old marine, and he claimed that the weapon would jam that way.
Gotta love salty old dudes and they’re wisdom.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Doesn't work as well with a 20rd mag!
As long as the weapon is resting on the mag it isn't an issue. I wouldn't lean on it though, just let it be a monopod.
When I zero I use a sandbag and keep it as close to the mag well as possible without contacting the mag itself. That way the "pressure" (basically just the weight of the weapon itself) is as close to the midline as possible, i.e. not way out on the barrel so flex is kept to a minimum.
Back around 2010, I went through the Army's Designated Marksman course in preparation for a deployment to Afghanistan. It was two weeks long (ten actual days on the range), being out there from about 0800 to 1630 everyday. We were specifically taught to either press the magazine into the dirt or into a sandbag/shooters bag. Between your shoulder, your two elbows and the magazine, you now had four points (five if you count your face along the stock) to help stabilize the weapon. In all the shooting we did (and there were about 30 of us), no malfunctions occurred due to the magazine resting on the ground or bag. As a matter of fact, I can't remember any weapon malfunctions at all during the course.
ginzomatic
03-15-19, 06:41
+1 for "never caused me any problems"
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.