View Full Version : Law Enforcement Losing the Ability to Protect the Citizens?
Doc Safari
03-06-19, 16:53
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-06/rural-sheriffs-ominous-warning-citizens-lock-your-doors-load-your-guns-get-barking
Rural Sheriff's Ominous Warning To Citizens: "Lock Your Doors, Load Your Guns, & Get A Barking, Biting Dog"
In Martin County, Kentucky times are very tough right now. Thanks to severe budget cutbacks, there are only two paid law enforcement officers covering a deeply impoverished 231-square-mile area that sits right in the heart of America’s raging opioid crisis. Needless to say, Martin County Sheriff John Kirk feels greatly outnumbered by the thieves, sexual predators and drug dealers that he has to contend with on a daily basis, and he recently issued a very ominous warning to the citizens of his county…
Before making a wave of cutbacks across his department, Martin County Sheriff John Kirk delivered a grim warning to residents of this hardscrabble Appalachian community.
“Law enforcement as we have known for the last four years will not exist,” he posted on Facebook last month.
“WE ARE BROKE… LOCK YOUR DOORS, LOAD YOUR GUNS AND GET YOU A BARKING, BITING DOG. If the Sheriff’s office can’t protect you, WHO WILL?”
So why can’t Martin County afford more law enforcement officers?
Well, like so many other local communities all across America right now, they are deep in debt and flat broke
As economic conditions continue to deteriorate, we are going to hear a lot more stories like this all over the country.
And the truth is that things will ultimately be far worse in our major cities than in our rural areas.
Just take a look at Chicago. Today it is a war zone, and the growing poverty in the city has fueled the rapid growth of criminal gangs.
According to a study conducted at the University of Illinois at Chicago, approximately half of the city was considered to be “middle income” in 1970, but now that number has dropped to just 16 percent…
UIC’s maps show that fully half of the city was middle income in 1970, including large swaths on every side of town. Today, just 16 percent of the city’s 797 census tracts are considered middle income. Those middle income areas are confined mostly to the corners of the city, and to thin strips between areas of wealth and poverty.
Those numbers are absolutely staggering.
Right now, there are about 12,000 law enforcement officers and more than 100,000 gang members in the city of Chicago.
That means that the gang members outnumber the police by an almost 10 to 1 margin.
Things are not quite as bad in other major cities, but trouble is definitely brewing.
My take: This is one big reason we have a Second Amendment. Personal defense should always be thought of as just that: personal. It's well known in rural areas that the police generally show up to do the paperwork. Even though I think law enforcement is adequate in this area, this article reminds me that ultimately you cannot depend on anyone but yourself to protect you and your family.
BoringGuy45
03-06-19, 17:27
It's not that they're broke; it's that most funds that are supposed to go towards law enforcement tend to get redirected to other stuff. Or they misuse grants. There was a large city in my state that got something like 5 million from the federal government to hire new officers. They opened their hiring process, got well over a thousand applicants who paid $40 a piece for the (non-refundable) application fee (which should be illegal). Then, they took the 5 million they got from the feds, plus the $40,000+ in application fees in the general fund, then informed all of us (yes I was one of the applicants) that, due to budget, the process had been cancelled.
Right now, every department in my state is short. The State Police are supposed to have a minimum of 1,200 troopers. They're 400 troopers short and counting. They're expected to lose another 400 in the next three years to retirement. They're only running one academy a year and only getting about 30 to 40 new troopers from these academies. Again, it's not due to lack of money as much as misuse of money. It also shows how shortsighted the state is; they're paying WAY more in OT to troopers covering the huge shortages. Also, we have no county government in our states, and thus no sheriffs or county police. Over half of the towns are covered by the staties. This has led to increased response times, and areas of towns that are completely unpoliced.
My understanding is that most local governments are feeling increasing burden or retirement funding. Schools clamor for more funds because a bigger percentage keeps going to pay for retired teachers. Too grand if promises made to get/stay elected, people living much longer, COLAs, etc.
We should already know the police are not there to proactively protect anyone, that is decided law. On a small percentage of cases an officer may be able to be on the scene and intervene. But usually it is by the nature of crime they arrive after the fact and are there to investigate and sometimes apprehend. Of those times only a small fraction result in convections and a fraction of those result in actual incarceration. So there may be a small factor of deterrence from a visible police force. It must be a stressful job to always be trying to play catch up, and even then the DA or jury can let your hard work evaporate.
But smart folks should already know they are responsible for their own protection.
thebarracuda
03-06-19, 19:02
This is nothing new. I live in a rural area. Miles from anything important, therefore rarely see our county deputies. Cell phones and firearms. Keep em handy. And I prefer it this way.
Outlander Systems
03-06-19, 19:30
Literally the definition of Country Livin’.
10/10 Jealous af.
This is nothing new. I live in a rural area. Miles from anything important, therefore rarely see our county deputies. Cell phones and firearms. Keep em handy. And I prefer it this way.
Even in cities, if you are depending upon police response to keep you alive, you are asking a lot. Not a shot at cops, but if it's happening RIGHT NOW, you are probably going to be on your own for at least 10 minutes and a lot can happen in 10 minutes.
And even when emergency services get there, they have to spend a little time trying to figure out who is the good guy / bad guy and what exactly is wrong because most of what is told to the 911 operator is one sided, less than accurate version of events.
https://www.kentucky.com/news/special-reports/fifty-years-of-night/article44453802.html
Also, a really good book that mentions the area around 1900 is "Our Southern Highlanders".
North west of Martin County.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/metro-government/2017/12/21/louisville-policing-problem-gov-bevin/972833001/
Personal safety is your personal responsibility.
SomeOtherGuy
03-06-19, 20:07
This is nothing new. I live in a rural area. Miles from anything important, therefore rarely see our county deputies. Cell phones and firearms. Keep em handy. And I prefer it this way.
Exactly the same here. But I've also lived in big cities and medium sized towns. Wherever you are, if you don't have some kind of defenses - whether a secured house, a dog, a gun and training, or whatever - you are literally helpless if a home invader targets you. The police won't respond if you don't get time to call 911, and even if you do, the incident may be over before they arrive.
Anyway. Shrinking LE departments and budgets is going to show up in declining ability to investigate and prosecute crimes.
Personal safety is your personal responsibility.
Not 100% because there are LAWS that govern our ability to protect ourselves. But there is the reality that we are on our own until officially designated enforcers of the law arrive. I'd hate to have to assume 100% responsibility, I plan on being older and less capable one day. I'm gonna do my part to sort out my own stuff, but honestly if I'm walking around wondering where I left my pants then I assume my El Presidente skills will have also suffered.
I'm gonna do my part to sort out my own stuff, but honestly if I'm walking around wondering where I left my pants then I assume my El Presidente skills will have also suffered.
That is why I'm nice to my kids.
Wondered about the court house there.
https://www.officer.com/command-hq/news/21070781/kentucky-sheriff-struggles-to-provide-law-and-order-as-county-struggles-with-money
"Still, the sheriff has some help. A small band of volunteer deputies — many retirees — acts as back-up in the evenings *******and offers court security.********"
Averageman
03-07-19, 07:51
If you want to keep a normal level of Law Enforcement available, quit abusing the system and don't commit crimes.
I told my Son that the smartest policy is to avoid interactions with Law Enforcement Officers at "most" costs. Wave "Hi" at Cops, Thank them for their work, but unless you've had to shoot someone or someone is breaking in to your home while you are there, you really don't need Cops.
You either need to be a good witness, or to defend yourself, 90% of everything else is some drama that might likely cause you to spend a night in jail.
It's pretty simple and this used to be common knowledge.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-07-19, 08:19
If you want to keep a normal level of Law Enforcement available, quit abusing the system and don't commit crimes.
I told my Son that the smartest policy is to avoid interactions with Law Enforcement Officers at "most" costs. Wave "Hi" at Cops, Thank them for their work, but unless you've had to shoot someone or someone is breaking in to your home while you are there, you really don't need Cops.
You either need to be a good witness, or to defend yourself, 90% of everything else is some drama that might likely cause you to spend a night in jail.
It's pretty simple and this used to be common knowledge.
That is sound advice.
sundance435
03-07-19, 09:23
First, as much as I despise Chicago politics and what it does to the rest of the state, it is not a "war zone". The chance of a crime of force being perpetrated on you in any part of Chicago you'd ever actually visit is really no greater than in any major city - which is one reason why I choose not to live in a major city. Second, I'm rural by birth but I've lived all over - small, medium, metro cities. Maybe it's because it's what I'm used to, but you could not pay me enough to live in a big city or suburban area again. Around here, the police write tickets, get an occasional K9 drug bust, etc. They're friends, neighbors, etc. I've never viewed them as my first and last line of protection. There is a thin blue line in the traditional sense, that their presence keeps a certain amount of disorder from happening, but, ultimately, you're responsible for your own safety. The majority of people today don't seem to view it that way, which gives us gun control and other various symptomatic overreach by the government.
When you've worked in LE, you have an acute appreciation for "help is only 15-30 minutes away", no matter where you live. I try to get that message across to friends, but it's such a foreign concept to many of them.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-07-19, 15:49
We had a series of burglaries in a large apartment complex once that we kept getting called out to. This complex is so large that you could post half of my department there and not deter any crime. I made a suggestion to a young female that claimed she had seen the burglar in her home (no sign of forced entry or even entry) that she needed to take measures to protect herself because even on our best day, we are still minutes away. Her family complained to my supervisors about my suggestion.
We want to protect you. We will drive at breakneck speeds in dangerous weather and risk being shot or killed to protect you. But the reality is, when you are in danger, seconds count. When seconds count, the police are still minutes away. A lot of bad things can happen in the span of a few minutes. Can you protect you and your family while you wait for the cavalry?
*Cue the rapid anti-cop posse on M4C that will tell me I have no duty to protect citizens, I would shoot their dog, jack boot thug, etc*
We had a series of burglaries in a large apartment complex once that we kept getting called out to. This complex is so large that you could post half of my department there and not deter any crime. I made a suggestion to a young female that claimed she had seen the burglar in her home (no sign of forced entry or even entry) that she needed to take measures to protect herself because even on our best day, we are still minutes away. Her family complained to my supervisors about my suggestion.
We want to protect you. We will drive at breakneck speeds in dangerous weather and risk being shot or killed to protect you. But the reality is, when you are in danger, seconds count. When seconds count, the police are still minutes away. A lot of bad things can happen in the span of a few minutes. Can you protect you and your family while you wait for the cavalry?
*Cue the rapid anti-cop posse on M4C that will tell me I have no duty to protect citizens, I would shoot their dog, jack boot thug, etc*
Well you aren't legally obligated to protect anyone and there are dog shooting jack booted thugs, figuratively speaking and literally in some cases. ;)
That being said, that group wouldn't give the advice you gave the young woman and would only point out Not making it on time after the fact in a worse case outcome scenario and even then wouldn't give the good advice to the next young woman. You aren't lumped in.
The_War_Wagon
03-07-19, 17:11
Suburban Pittsburgh departments are getting shuttered (https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/11/30/east-pittsburgh-residents-concerned-police-department-disbanding/), leaving coverage to state police (https://www.publicsource.org/no-money-no-police-force/)!
It ain't just rural areas anymore - MORE examples here (https://www.policemag.com/tags?tag=Disbanding+Agencies).
We had a series of burglaries in a large apartment complex once that we kept getting called out to. This complex is so large that you could post half of my department there and not deter any crime. I made a suggestion to a young female that claimed she had seen the burglar in her home (no sign of forced entry or even entry) that she needed to take measures to protect herself because even on our best day, we are still minutes away. Her family complained to my supervisors about my suggestion.
We want to protect you. We will drive at breakneck speeds in dangerous weather and risk being shot or killed to protect you. But the reality is, when you are in danger, seconds count. When seconds count, the police are still minutes away. A lot of bad things can happen in the span of a few minutes. Can you protect you and your family while you wait for the cavalry?
*Cue the rapid anti-cop posse on M4C that will tell me I have no duty to protect citizens, I would shoot their dog, jack boot thug, etc*
sadly I think the majority are put in positions by the political ones the chiefs and so on who then are either acting on peer pressure or by political pressure and the rapid anti cop crap is happening I would not want to be a LEO these days
but its not just LEO its our sad society today narcissism and socialism and other influences hit everyone in all lines of work
911 what is your emergency ? the McDonalds burger was cold !!!! and the idiot behind the counter would not give me a new one ?
should be OK we will be there soon then arrest that twit and make them pay a HUGE fine :)
I try to make sure not to lump the good in with the bad but with the top being influenced and the idiots being hired that should not be their
watering down the good guys numbers I do think is small but like the radical left they ruin it for all ?
I know my days in the FD there was a bit of self policing that could make the cut or not ! today that hazing would not stand sadly its what made the FD brotherhood so freaking strong and my LEO friend back in the day had the same thing somewhat I do wish there could be more of this today ?
my buddy said it best when I was in the FD you guys can chainsaw open their home flood it with water and get cookies the next day at the station ! I knock on the door to return property and get WHAT DO YOU WANT ! then well it sure took you long enough !!!
so public perception is huge and of course our last pres did nothing to help that
reckon everyone should be forced to do 40+ hours ride along to see what its about !!! but then again I would hate hate hate to be that LEO doing them with the idiocy input I am sure you would get :) hahahahaahha
I do think LE in general is falling apart
prosecutor says LEO mess up so many arrests these days by over stepping
but at the same time judges now putting personal feelings into things are messing it up and of course even prosecutors to being to one side or just wanting to do less work ? but if everyone in the system stayed in their own lane it would work but nobody is anymore ! just like roadways everyone wants to be in the left lane and this is what we get ! so its not just LEO its the whole system to be clear
so to this and the OP topic yeah I agree but its our society as a whole sadly
stay frosty my friend !!!!
sadly I think the majority are put in positions by the political ones the chiefs and so on who then are either acting on peer pressure or by political pressure and the rapid anti cop crap is happening I would not want to be a LEO these days
but its not just LEO its our sad society today narcissism and socialism and other influences hit everyone in all lines of work
911 what is your emergency ? the McDonalds burger was cold !!!! and the idiot behind the counter would not give me a new one ?
should be OK we will be there soon then arrest that twit and make them pay a HUGE fine :)
I try to make sure not to lump the good in with the bad but with the top being influenced and the idiots being hired that should not be their
watering down the good guys numbers I do think is small but like the radical left they ruin it for all ?
I know my days in the FD there was a bit of self policing that could make the cut or not ! today that hazing would not stand sadly its what made the FD brotherhood so freaking strong and my LEO friend back in the day had the same thing somewhat I do wish there could be more of this today ?
my buddy said it best when I was in the FD you guys can chainsaw open their home flood it with water and get cookies the next day at the station ! I knock on the door to return property and get WHAT DO YOU WANT ! then well it sure took you long enough !!!
so public perception is huge and of course our last pres did nothing to help that
reckon everyone should be forced to do 40+ hours ride along to see what its about !!! but then again I would hate hate hate to be that LEO doing them with the idiocy input I am sure you would get :) hahahahaahha
I do think LE in general is falling apart
prosecutor says LEO mess up so many arrests these days by over stepping
but at the same time judges now putting personal feelings into things are messing it up and of course even prosecutors to being to one side or just wanting to do less work ? but if everyone in the system stayed in their own lane it would work but nobody is anymore ! just like roadways everyone wants to be in the left lane and this is what we get ! so its not just LEO its the whole system to be clear
so to this and the OP topic yeah I agree but its our society as a whole sadly
stay frosty my friend !!!!
Conversely, I think police, judges, and prosecutors should have to work a few years in some job where they have no authority and, more importantly, no immunity before they can take on those positions. Nothing is 100% perfect, of course, but that could thin the herd of some duds.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-07-19, 19:09
Conversely, I think police, judges, and prosecutors should have to work a few years in some job where they have no authority and, more importantly, no immunity before they can take on those positions. Nothing is 100% perfect, of course, but that could thin the herd of some duds.
Must be 21 to be a Police Officer. Bachelors and JD to be a lawyer or judge.
Do you think the years between 18 and 21-26 were spent either on the couch, or working in positions of authority?
I thought the shtick was that cops are people that had NO authority in life and then suddenly got it and are lashing out for all those years of bullying they received?
Tongue in cheek aside, I don't think people should have to ride along with me to understand policing. I don't understand their job, I don't ask that they understand mine. I empathize with the stressors of their lives and job, and only ask they try to do the same with me.
Must be 21 to be a Police Officer. Bachelors and JD to be a lawyer or judge.
Do you think the years between 18 and 21-26 were spent either on the couch, or working in positions of authority?
I thought the shtick was that cops are people that had NO authority in life and then suddenly got it and are lashing out for all those years of bullying they received?
Tongue in cheek aside, I don't think people should have to ride along with me to understand policing. I don't understand their job, I don't ask that they understand mine. I empathize with the stressors of their lives and job, and only ask they try to do the same with me.
I don't think high school straight in to jumping through the hoops to get to any of those fields then in to the career is getting to experience the laws they want to apply to others. There is a tendency for breaks to be given to those effectively shadowing those career paths. Not so much a "walk a mile in another man's shoes" kind of thing than give them an opportunity to deal with others and lose their temper if that is their nature or commit some offense as a peon rather than being a judge's intern and getting out of the punishment via string pulling.
Nothing is an absolute of course, but entrenched duds are way too hard to get rid of.
Good that you do, but unfortunately that isn't a 100% universal thing.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-07-19, 20:14
I don't think high school straight in to jumping through the hoops to get to any of those fields then in to the career is getting to experience the laws they want to apply to others. There is a tendency for breaks to be given to those effectively shadowing those career paths. Not so much a "walk a mile in another man's shoes" kind of thing than give them an opportunity to deal with others and lose their temper if that is their nature. Too hard to get rid of an entrenched dud.
Nothing is an absolute of course.
Good that you do, but unfortunately that isn't a 100% universal thing.
That goes for every profession. Every job has those who believe, and it's probably true, that life would be easier if everyone had to walk a mile in their shoes before criticizing.
That goes for every profession. Every job has those who believe, and it's probably true, that life would be easier if everyone had to walk a mile in their shoes before criticizing.
That is probably true and one of the things my Grandpa always said was everyone should have to work awhile in a job dealing with the public.
Hey, a county in red state Kentucky is out of money? They wanted "small government." They got it!
Must be 21 to be a Police Officer.
Is that everywhere now? I know two brothers who both started working for Ft. Lauderdale PD at age 19, their parents actually had to purchase their handguns. This was mid 1990s, unfortunately one of the two brothers (twins) was killed in the line of duty when he was shot by a homeless guy.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-07-19, 23:01
Is that everywhere now? I know two brothers who both started working for Ft. Lauderdale PD at age 19, their parents actually had to purchase their handguns. This was mid 1990s, unfortunately one of the two brothers (twins) was killed in the line of duty when he was shot by a homeless guy.
I suppose I don't know if that is universal. It is the rule in Colorado.
platoonDaddy
03-08-19, 05:17
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-08-19, 05:26
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
Right on cue.
Is that everywhere now? I know two brothers who both started working for Ft. Lauderdale PD at age 19, their parents actually had to purchase their handguns. This was mid 1990s, unfortunately one of the two brothers (twins) was killed in the line of duty when he was shot by a homeless guy.
Apparently it wasn't in Wisconsin as of 2007 and that incident was one of the things I had in mind when saying in the process of becoming an officer/prosecutor/judge isn't fully the same as living outside those groups.
https://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/15290921.html
Right on cue.
Those 3 words can be said every time an anti 2nd Amendment/self defense initiative comes up when the opposite (and demonstrably false) claim comes up as part of the justification for the initiative.
Hey, a county in red state Kentucky is out of money? They wanted "small government." They got it!
The area was destitute during what has to be considered largesse. While it is 4 to 5 hours away, the more recent incident begs the question of how many people can an area pay 120 hours of overtime too (in addition to 40 regular hours in a 168 hour week).
https://www.kentucky.com/news/special-reports/fifty-years-of-night/article44453802.html
....
.....
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/metro-government/2017/12/21/louisville-policing-problem-gov-bevin/972833001/
It's not the role of Law Enforcement in a Constitutional Republic to Protect anyone. The term "Protect and Serve" is misguided axiom, and needs to go back to Public Servant/Public Office. The Citizen in a so called Free Society is responsible for their well being on all fronts. The problem is two fold: Weak Society that wants to be Governed and unaccountable for anything and that a lot of States and Cities have passed Unconstitutional Laws making this difficult or impossible. Even in more Conservative venues have Prosecuting/County Attorneys, including ours, that don't know shit about the DOJ's Judicious Use of Force guidelines, and are guilty of self legislating just like everyone else in Government,making them more likely to prosecute someone for using force. The real issue, is the same for all issues and that is getting back to the real playbook.
The Citizen in a so called Free Society is responsible for their well being on all fronts. The problem is two fold: Weak Society that wants to be Governed and unaccountable for anything and that a lot of States and Cities have passed Unconstitutional Laws making this difficult or impossible.
Very well put and is the crux of the problem today. 50% of Americans want a nanny state and thus vote that way. When it doesn't work they double down and the Communists they elect are more than happy to restrict our rights even further.
I learned at a young age not to rely on the police. Nothing against cops at all but when I need help NOW chances are there isn't going to be one around the corner. Just a fact of life.
Back in the early 90s my dad had a business in a bad part of the city. I would work for him in the summer. One day my mom came and picked me up and we walked a few blocks to the parking lot. As we got to the car my mom got mugged as the fat old security guard just sat there watching. I was about 14 at the time. My dad called the cops and an officer showed up 2 hours later. He did apologize and said they were extremely busy. Took the report and told my dad to buy a gun and get a carry permit. Said....if you dropped that guy here no one would bat an eye
Very well put and is the crux of the problem today. 50% of Americans want a nanny state and thus vote that way. When it doesn't work they double down and the Communists they elect are more than happy to restrict our rights even further.
I think it's more than 50% considering far more than 50% of political races feature 2 candidates advocating destroying the 2nd Amendment(just 1 nanny state issue) and combined getting 90%+
sundance435
03-08-19, 10:19
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
That shouldn't have been news in 2005, either. That's been the legal standard almost everywhere since the first police agencies in America were founded. Are you actually implying that they should be? What better argument for a nanny state than the police are primarily responsible for your protection. Not only that, it isn't even remotely practical from a financial, ethical, or any other perspective.
That shouldn't have been news in 2005, either. That's been the legal standard almost everywhere since the first police agencies in America were founded. Are you actually implying that they should be? What better argument for a nanny state than the police are primarily responsible for your protection. Not only that, it isn't even remotely practical from a financial, ethical, or any other perspective.
Yeah that needs to not be brought up ever again, starting with the moratorium on it about 30 seconds after the very last time the claim of "you don't need a gun, the police are here to protect you" gets made.
Yeah that needs to not be brought up ever again, starting with the moratorium on it about 30 seconds after the very last time the claim of "you don't need a gun, the police are here to protect you" gets made.
Every time someone says "you don't need a gun, the police are here to protect you", someone needs to immediately say "That is a lie." :(
Like I tell citizens all the time when they ask what they should do to protect themselves; when seconds count, we're only minutes away. The smarter ones get it.
Every time someone says "you don't need a gun, the police are here to protect you", someone needs to immediately say "That is a lie." :(
The very same ones who say you don't need a gun are the same who hate the police.
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
You might want to read the whole case to understand the issue being discussed, rather than just latch onto controversial headlines.
You might want to read the whole case to understand the issue being discussed, rather than just latch onto controversial headlines.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-278.ZS.html
Are you referring to the general duty to protect versus not having a duty to protect an individual?
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