View Full Version : UFO's
Doc Safari
03-07-19, 13:33
This is a subject about which I don't really have my mind made up. I believe people are seeing something, but whether we are being visited by beings from another planet/dimension, or if it's a demonic deception, or just plain hokum, I can't say.
What do you think of the whole phenomenon?
I wouldn't post this thread to try to promote one view or another. This isn't AboveTopSecret after all. But it's a subject that deserves some attention because it's very real to many, many people.
I'm posting a poll just to get a consensus on what people think is going on.
I've been doing some reading, and frankly, you can find a lot of evidence for many explanations.
I personally have never seen anything in the sky that didn't have a rational explanation, or even if unexplained just didn't strike me as "extraterrestrial" or otherwise fantastical.
What do you think? Do you have a "UFO" experience?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190307/48a72e988d3333488c12ebd891315c8b.jpg
Honestly what better way to hide our govs doings than to indirectly perpetuate the notion of ET
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I put aliens, but that doesn't necessarily mean little gray men from another solar system or galaxy. It could just as easily be things our limited scope of perception can't normally perceive, yet become perceptible briefly and only during very specific conditions and circumstances.
Doc Safari
03-07-19, 13:47
Honestly what better way to hide our govs doings than to indirectly perpetuate the notion of ET
I will say that I think it's possible that the Roswell crash was a prototype of the Horten brothers' stealth fighter.
1. Right after World War II
2. German tech and scientists imported to US
3. Shape of Horten brothers stealth fighter is close to descriptions of both Roswell UFO and Kenneth Arnold UFO's.
4. Still top secret because the technology is still classified (still relevant to modern stealth aircraft).
Dr. Bullseye
03-07-19, 13:51
First, UFOs and aliens are two completely separate subjects. Just because someone sees something in the sky he cannot understand does not necessarily mean it is "alien". Name three aircraft advances not present in the Second World War. That ought to tell you what is being kept secret.
I vote UFOs are government (one or more) vehicles which are largely secret.
Doc Safari
03-07-19, 13:53
I vote UFOs are government (one or more) vehicles which are largely secret.
Good Point. I tried, but I don't see how to add that as a choice to the poll question. It belongs there, though.
First, UFOs and aliens are two completely separate subjects. Just because someone sees something in the sky he cannot understand does not necessarily mean it is "alien". Name three aircraft advances not present in the Second World War. That ought to tell you what is being kept secret.
I vote UFOs are government (one or more) vehicles which are largely secret.
this BUT where did that tech come from :) hahaahahahah
when test pilots in the US are in those test planes and something comes up on them like they are sitting still and then maneuvers in such a way that seems impossible ? what then :)
I do think the huge majority of what is seen are tests but not sure about the other small % that others see that cant be described etc.
Voted aliens. How could you look up at the sky on a clear night and think there is no possibility of other worlds existing?? Have they ever been here? There is enough evidence to satisfy me that they probably have. I do think that 99.99% of the reported sightings can be explained away as man made. We were headed offshore before daylight and came across what by starlight looked like a sphere hovering 50 feet or so above the ocean's surface. We stopped and watched it from about a half mile away. It turned out to be a descending weather balloon. We actually retrieved the little white box and mailed it to the listed address. If we had been within radio range of shore I would have reported it as a UFO and felt pretty stupid 15 minutes later!
titsonritz
03-07-19, 15:30
Voted aliens. I think it is completely presumptuous to believe humans to be the only intelligent, let alone top of the food chain, life in the universe.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190307/48a72e988d3333488c12ebd891315c8b.jpg
Honestly what better way to hide our govs doings than to indirectly perpetuate the notion of ET
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Who told you? :ph34r:
Maybe should be a multiple choice. Angelic, Alien or Government, could be all three. No way any maned craft could take the Gs from the Temple Mount incident in 2011.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDJXg8o8CMQ
They are out there and they like screwing with Navy pilots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9D8dzl4zGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fd6ssvcBoM
with so many fakes on video vs the couple you have to wonder about ;) sadly this is how it works though put out enough good fakes and you then question everything !
I do wonder about some of the military stuff though very cool and interesting for sure :)
Ill take USS Hillenkoeter for 300 please
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They are out there and they like screwing with Navy pilots.
In the first video, one of the pilots was interviewed last year and said one of the "Tic Tac" UFO's was at @ 60,000 feet, then dropped to sea level in something like 2 seconds. That's beyond the capacity of any known aircraft.
Of all the years I flew in the Army, no UFO stories. However, after I retired I encountered something I cannot explain. Let me tell you:
Some years back I was on the Navajo Reservation in Arizona attending the funeral of someone I knew from the Army. Myself and another buddy were driving north on Highway 191 @ six miles north of Rockpoint, Arizona (middle of nowhwere) around 2am. Off to the left (west) we saw a light in the sky about 45 degrees above ground level. It was behaving weird. We stopped the truck, turned off everything and got out and watched it. It was a pulsing white orb of a light that seemed to change color when it pulsed. It was moving north to south then back in the opposite direction. We thought maybe a helicopter, but when it changed directions it was abrupt without slowing down. I looked for any kind of anti-collision lights but saw nothing familiar. We also watched to see if it was some kind of searchlight, but it didn't fit that criteria.
In the direction west we were looking there is no town or another paved road for 30 miles across country. It was clear weather and a starry night with no moon. We heard no sound out of this thing. Finally it seemed to grow in size as if coming in our direction. As it appeared to get closer the pulsing glow seemed to have more than one color, but the pulses were a second or less. After moving north again, it shot off to the southwest and disappeared. To this day we have no idea what we were seeing, but it did not have the flight dynamics of any kind of aircraft I have seen. You can look up Rock Point, Arizona and we north of town looking off to the southwest, parked along the two-lane US 191.
On a side note, this area of the Navajo Reservation is very rural, with a less sophisticated population. Back in the late 1980's the B-1 Lancer used to do low level flights over this rural area of the Navajo Reservation. In fact I got a shot of one such flyovers about 200 feet above the deck over my campsite. Used a 35mm camera with ASA-200 Kodachrome at 1/2000th of a second to capture an image of the bomber. Was on leave on a camping trip. I think the government utilized rural areas with an uneducated population to test their stuff.
I think they are a combination of things, mostly based upon human assumption.
I think if an alien species was capable of traveling to our planet their capability would be so advanced we'd never even know they were there. Also if we ever were visited, they probably were looking at dinosaurs which have been the primary inhabitants of this planet for a lot longer than us.
I also don't think humans are so damn interesting they'd get the specific attention of anyone or anything out there, that is just our own vanity.
We as humans would be pretty arrogant to believe that we were the only intelligent life in a universe that is so immense we can't comprehend it. Have they come here? Maybe, maybe not. But they are out there somewhere no doubt.
We as humans would be pretty arrogant to believe that we were the only intelligent life in a universe that is so immense we can't comprehend it. Have they come here? Maybe, maybe not. But they are out there somewhere no doubt.
Exactly how I feel. There is no way we are the only life in the universe, or even the galaxy. Maybe we other races are at the same level we are. Maybe there have been entire races develop and die out. Who knows.. But laws of probability are pretty clear.
I think they are a combination of things, mostly based upon human assumption.
I think if an alien species was capable of traveling to our planet their capability would be so advanced we'd never even know they were there. Also if we ever were visited, they probably were looking at dinosaurs which have been the primary inhabitants of this planet for a lot longer than us.
I also don't think humans are so damn interesting they'd get the specific attention of anyone or anything out there, that is just our own vanity.
Unless human existence on planet Earth is part of something that originated in some other part of our island of stars (Galaxy) and what science thinks happened randomly was part of some external input????
Business_Casual
03-07-19, 20:22
I agree with the combination approach. There is ample evidence to support that.
A good read on the topic is Jacques Vallee “Passport to Mangonia.”
As for the visitors from other planets idea, it is just too difficult to solve the life support, propulsion and speed problems inherent in interplanetary travel.
Unless human existence on planet Earth is part of something that originated in some other part of our island of stars (Galaxy) and what science thinks happened randomly was part of some external input????
One of the more popular theories now is that the building blocks for life as we know it on this planet were deposited billions of years ago by meteors. They have found microbes that can survive being frozen in the vacuum of space. They don't die. They just freeze in hibernation, then reanimate when they warm up. Many scientists believe that RNA and DNA were deposited on earth this way. No telling where they came from. This may not be the ONLY way that life started on earth, but they believe it could be and/or supplemented the life generation process here.
As for UFOs... I'm a big-jet transoceanic pilot. I'm up looking at the stars at all times of the evening and have a great view. I've NEVER seen anything that I haven't been able to explain. I BELIEVE there is life out there somewhere, but... SteyrAUG nails it imho.
I think if an alien species was capable of traveling to our planet their capability would be so advanced we'd never even know they were there. Also if we ever were visited, they probably were looking at dinosaurs which have been the primary inhabitants of this planet for a lot longer than us.
That. Now factor the age of the universe, it's possible that other civilizations have come and gone extinct. There may have been, and may will be many more intelligent creatures out there. Stars blow up, planets die. Beings on said planets that get wiped clean in a super nova... Next consider the SIZE of the known universe and the distance between celestial systems. There could be thousands of intelligent races in our own galaxy with our intelligence and we won't know. They are too far away. The universe is huge. Even if there was a trans warp capable civilization out there, the offs of them FINDING us are almost nil. It would have to happen almost by accident.
But but but... What about our radio and TV signals??? Don't read this unless you want to be depressed. They are being washed out by the background noise of our star. Someone would have to be less than a light year or two away from us at the most to be able to detect our electronic signature. Think of a candle in front of a nuclear bomb. If you look at the bomb flash from a few thousand miles away, the candle light will be undetectable. Same theory. Even if detectable, it could take thousands or even millions for said signals to reach another civilization. So, E.T. would LITERALLY have to be walking through the front door to even know the house was occupied. Edited... This works BOTH ways. There could be thousands of other civilizations with radio and TV. Their star will drown out their signals the same way that our star does... We really may NEVER know.
Yes, they're out there. I'm not sure we'll know for certain within the next few hundred or thousand years. I'm guessing a few hundred. Now ask ourselves, do we want to be found? If a trans warp capable civilization found us, it would be like us discovering some new type of ant colony. What if the visitors are not nice?
Det-Sog, take a look at my earlier post about what I experienced post-Army retirement. I have never seen anything before with flight dynamics like I experienced that early morning on the Navajo Reservation. Whether is was E.T. or E.T. technology passed on to the government, or just super secret technology created here, I have no idea. There's certainly a lot going on that we are not privy to.
BTW, my eldest son is married to an Air Force pilot. She drives the C-17 Globemaster III.
Det-Sog, take a look at my earlier post about what I experienced post-Army retirement. I have never seen anything before with flight dynamics like I experienced that early morning on the Navajo Reservation. Whether is was E.T. or E.T. technology passed on to the government, or just super secret technology created here, I have no idea. There's certainly a lot going on that we are not privy to.
BTW, my eldest son is married to an Air Force pilot. She drives the C-17 Globemaster III.
Agreed. There is a lot going on out there. I was not doubting you at all.
When you look at the F-14 pilot's gun camera footage, toggling between white hot and black hot, there is no heat signature of engine exhaust from the target they were engaging. Also, what kind of being can withstand G-forces with a drop from 60,000 feet to sea level in 2 seconds? Lots of questions and no answers - but lots of speculation.
I think that if there is intelligent life which is external to planet Earth, it may be something that is not biological or carbon based as we would understand.
When you look at the F-14 pilot's gun camera footage, toggling between white hot and black hot, there is no heat signature of engine exhaust from the target they were engaging. Also, what kind of being can withstand G-forces with a drop from 60,000 feet to sea level in 2 seconds? Lots of questions and no answers - but lots of speculation.
I think that if there is intelligent life which is external to planet Earth, it may be something that is not biological or carbon based as we would understand.
Watch that clip from temple on the mount I posted back a page. There are multiple views of that incident recorded on youtube from others at different angles. Check out the rapid ascension. That is not man made, and I believe not a UFO. No physical manned craft, I believe alien or human could make that possible. In this case I'll go with my first of the three on this one.
Maybe should be a multiple choice. Angelic, Alien or Government, could be all three. No way any maned craft could take the Gs from the Temple Mount incident in 2011.
Temple Mount is fake, these guys do a pretty good job of de-bunking it. Think about this. One of the most visited and photographed places in the WORLD. There would be HUNDREDS of high resolution photos and videos as well as THOUSANDS of witnesses. This would have created a religious pilgrimage to the likes the world has not seen in thousands of years. https://www.livescience.com/12826-jerusalem-ufo-hoax.html
Unless human existence on planet Earth is part of something that originated in some other part of our island of stars (Galaxy) and what science thinks happened randomly was part of some external input????
Are you talking about cosmic seeding? If so I tend to agree that the fundamentals for life are probably everywhere and happen every time a suitable environment develops, but I don't know that single cell organisms always eventually result in something like homo sapiens.
If not for an asteroid, dinosaurs still might rule the planet. Their destruction opened the way for the development of mammals to fill the void and diversify. But up to that point, they were the dominant predator and keeping our numbers, and development in check. Similarly, if home sapiens suddenly disappeared, some other species would flourish in the void. But that doesn't necessarily mean they will achieve sentience. That might be something that is actually rare indeed even if multi-cellular life forms are somewhat common.
The reality is self aware intelligent life might have happened thousands of times already but over the span of billions of years and the space of billions of miles they never had the opportunity to encounter one another even if they had the technology.
Mathematically they should exist, but using the same math it is unlikely we'd run into each other very much.
Are you talking about cosmic seeding? If so I tend to agree that the fundamentals for life are probably everywhere and happen every time a suitable environment develops, but I don't know that single cell organisms always eventually result in something like homo sapiens.
Certainly this kind of discussion is above my pay grade, but I have always thought that there is a mix of science, theology all mixed in with some kind of external input into what has happened on our planet. I am a Christian, believing in a Supreme Being, but I don't buy into literal Biblical thought. I think of it more as the Cliff Notes of greater concepts.
When you consider the creation of the Earth in Genesis, this has been attributed to Moses receiving this information via a Divine source. The fact is the sequence of Genesis is a quick abridged version of what actually happened. A simple vision of something Moses' could not have understood, but provided in a way for easy comprehension. A blast from nothing creating the start of the universe, a molten earth, then a water covered earth, etc. Man is the last "creation" in the sequence. Its all in Genesis. Now how would a Moses who lived 3000 years ago know the proper sequence of events of the early solar system without some external input? The creation of the human is indicative of a transfer of knowledge, not the physical creation; "Let us create Man in our image". What is the image of a being that fills the universe? It's not a nose or fingers and toes. It's an evolutionary process which is crowned by the addition of "that something extra" given to mankind. It's kind of Arthur C. Clarke and his Obelisk in 2001 a Space Odyssey.
Now we hear of Dark Matter and the concept of multiple universes. It blows the mind. It's just a gut feeling that there is something more going on that is bigger than anyone could ever imagine, and maybe some of these encounters, UFO's, etc. are part of that? Please understand I am not a Bible thumper, and most of my thoughts would get me tossed from most organized denominations. That's fine, but somehow I think what we know, what we wonder about and theology is somehow tied to something that is incredible...."Something Wonderful"... to quote the film "2001...".
MountainRaven
03-08-19, 00:03
It's an evolutionary process which is crowned by the addition of "that something extra" given to mankind. It's kind of Arthur C. Clarke and his Obelisk in 2001 a Space Odyssey.
Monolith. They were Monoliths.
Also: Don't forget that the entire universe as we understand it might be a hologram of 2-dimensional data.
OH58D: We share many of the same thoughts regarding God explaining things to folks in a way they could understand.
I also note that, in my readings, I have not understood that God guaranteed that we were the only ones he created in his image.
Multiple explanations for sure.
The few that very much can not be explained, are genuine and outliers- I tend to think that it’s eother a break away civilization, or an original civilization/inhabitants.
It’s easier to think that whatever “they” are; didn’t come from light years away- although that is possible and the usual arguments are based on our limited understanding of physics given our time to extrapolate data and theorize.
Technology beyond ones comprehension and understanding can make gods of mere mortal beings.
Inter dimensional travel without the need to traverse vast distances ina conventional sense- is also more believable than aliens traveling from 100 light years away literally traversing that distance through physical space.
There’s so much we don’t know about even our own oceans here on our little blue rock, so much we don’t know about the space around us, on top of us and underneath us- in terms of what we can physically observe and otherwise.
I’ve experienced enough to question it all and accept there are other beings, dimensions and levels of existence out there.
What we know and comprehend is but a spec of sand on an infinite beach.
Heck, lots of descriptions of our own universe portray it as essentially being a holographic supersymmetric computer simulation with doubly even self dual linear binary error-correcting block codes built in...
We are but infants in our, perception, comprehension, understanding and knowledge of the universe and existence we inhabit.
It’s laughable to believe anything is NOT possible based on such limited observations, time and understanding.
I’m certain that intelligent life exists throughout the universe, but I strongly doubt any of it has visited Earth, so...yeah, hokum. But in a fun way.
Certainly this kind of discussion is above my pay grade, but I have always thought that there is a mix of science, theology all mixed in with some kind of external input into what has happened on our planet. I am a Christian, believing in a Supreme Being, but I don't buy into literal Biblical thought. I think of it more as the Cliff Notes of greater concepts.
When you consider the creation of the Earth in Genesis, this has been attributed to Moses receiving this information via a Divine source. The fact is the sequence of Genesis is a quick abridged version of what actually happened. A simple vision of something Moses' could not have understood, but provided in a way for easy comprehension. A blast from nothing creating the start of the universe, a molten earth, then a water covered earth, etc. Man is the last "creation" in the sequence. Its all in Genesis. Now how would a Moses who lived 3000 years ago know the proper sequence of events of the early solar system without some external input? The creation of the human is indicative of a transfer of knowledge, not the physical creation; "Let us create Man in our image". What is the image of a being that fills the universe? It's not a nose or fingers and toes. It's an evolutionary process which is crowned by the addition of "that something extra" given to mankind. It's kind of Arthur C. Clarke and his Obelisk in 2001 a Space Odyssey.
Now we hear of Dark Matter and the concept of multiple universes. It blows the mind. It's just a gut feeling that there is something more going on that is bigger than anyone could ever imagine, and maybe some of these encounters, UFO's, etc. are part of that? Please understand I am not a Bible thumper, and most of my thoughts would get me tossed from most organized denominations. That's fine, but somehow I think what we know, what we wonder about and theology is somehow tied to something that is incredible...."Something Wonderful"... to quote the film "2001...".
Don't worry, a little polite theology never upset me, I just happen to not necessarily agree with it.
But we have some commonality, where you see some kind of "extra help" in the ascent of man, I go back a little further with the introduction of first life. Stuff on the microbial that can truly go in almost any direction, that can result in stromatolites that can take all the carbon from the atmosphere and replace it with oxygen which results in the ability of entirely new forms of life to survive.
I think the building blocks of life are everywhere in the universe and being transported to all points known hitching rides on comets and possibly asteroids. And if they happen to find a world with liquid water or whatever else is needed to support initial life it probably happens. But the nature of the environment, and the diversity that results is more likely to dictate the nature of the species to come than any outside influences. There might be a basic starting template, but we must remember that every terrestrial being is a distant cousin of amphibians who crawled out of our oceans a long, long time ago.
I don't know if there is a Grand Conductor, but I would doubt that we are his special creation or that we would bear any resemblance to such a being if it in fact existed. It would be fantastic if that was the case, the idea that we are nothing more than an arbitrary evolutionary anomaly that can understand great things and then cease to exist forever is a bit depressing.
But this is all just conjecture, we don't even have enough evidence to speak in theory. But it's fun to think about, explore and wonder.
Det-Sog, take a look at my earlier post about what I experienced post-Army retirement. I have never seen anything before with flight dynamics like I experienced that early morning on the Navajo Reservation. Whether is was E.T. or E.T. technology passed on to the government, or just super secret technology created here, I have no idea. There's certainly a lot going on that we are not privy to.
BTW, my eldest son is married to an Air Force pilot. She drives the C-17 Globemaster III.
Not sure what you saw, but I don't think this government, or any government is capable of keeping such secrets. The most important secret government program of the 20th century was the Manhattan Project, and Klaus Fuchs and the Rosenburg spy network simply provided the critical details of the bomb to Stalin.
If we had alien technology, everyone would find out. This is the same government that couldn't conceal Clinton's blowjob. Now ideas about alien technology might have gotten us somewhere just like a TV show called Star Trek drove silicon valley innovations from the 1970s to the 1990s.
I elect to believe that somewhere is a race of caucasian looking white Amazon women who dress only in bikini armor, eat red meat, and all stand 5,’11” and they have green anime hair, never heard of feminism and need a male to breed them.
And one day they will liberate me from this toilet of a planet and treat me like the belle of the ball
Business_Casual
03-08-19, 05:54
I also note that, in my readings, I have not understood that God guaranteed that we were the only ones he created in his image.
Up to the Enlightenment, Church fathers would’ve agreed with the possibility of extraterrestrial life simply because to believe otherwise would limit Him. This was formalized by a French bishop, I can’t recall his name.
Outlander Systems
03-08-19, 09:49
https://biblehub.com/john/10-16.htm
OH58D: We share many of the same thoughts regarding God explaining things to folks in a way they could understand.
I also note that, in my readings, I have not understood that God guaranteed that we were the only ones he created in his image.
Doc Safari
03-08-19, 11:00
I elect to believe that somewhere is a race of caucasian looking white Amazon women who dress only in bikini armor, eat red meat, and all stand 5,’11” and they have green anime hair, never heard of feminism and need a male to breed them.
And one day they will liberate me from this toilet of a planet and treat me like the belle of the ball
I think AOC is an alien. Look at those eyes. That's not human.
Not sure what you saw, but I don't think this government, or any government is capable of keeping such secrets. The most important secret government program of the 20th century was the Manhattan Project, and Klaus Fuchs and the Rosenburg spy network simply provided the critical details of the bomb to Stalin.
If we had alien technology, everyone would find out. This is the same government that couldn't conceal Clinton's blowjob. Now ideas about alien technology might have gotten us somewhere just like a TV show called Star Trek drove silicon valley innovations from the 1970s to the 1990s.
And yet, every time a Gummint official comes out and says they worked on projects involving aliens they are laughed at and ostrisized.
There’s been some wack jobs claiming some preposterous shit, but there are also a few credible folks from the space program, Air Force and intelligence that have told some interesting stories. Some American, some Canadien, some Russia and some British.
Yet, most folks write it off as BS. Most of t may be. But some of it I believe is not.
It doesn’t need to be kept secret in a traditional way of no one finding out or talking about it. It just needs to be talked about often and enough people talking about it found not credible to use a blanket veil of anyone who talks about it is laughed at and not taken seriously.
Not sure what you saw, but I don't think this government, or any government is capable of keeping such secrets. The most important secret government program of the 20th century was the Manhattan Project, and Klaus Fuchs and the Rosenburg spy network simply provided the critical details of the bomb to Stalin.
If we had alien technology, everyone would find out. This is the same government that couldn't conceal Clinton's blowjob. Now ideas about alien technology might have gotten us somewhere just like a TV show called Star Trek drove silicon valley innovations from the 1970s to the 1990s.
Conspiracy theory is a mainstay orientation of many that post here. You're trying to put a pin in an important component of that....you won't be thanked.
Car manufacturers often work with tech that's ~5yrs ahead of what's on the roads. Imagine what a .gov funded entity can do. It's naive to think that we're the only living life forms in this universe, but I feel, like what was stated above, that the majority of the "UFO's" being speculated are some sort of R&D project.
MorphCross
03-08-19, 13:11
My take: there are things occurring on this planet that we as humans cannot perceive without the aid of technology or animals with senses outside the capabilities of our own. Like a proverbial frog in a well, we cannot make sense of an ocean as it lies beyond our experience. Those rare individuals that get to experience things well outside of the normal such as Astronauts let alone fighter pilots and are more acclimated to those environments have perhaps picked up on those things because they are more adapted.
How would a dust mite perceive the world let alone the environmental scale it lives in?
Option "Not sure what it is but something in our air space that can't be explained away as balloon or swamp gas" kinda option should exist.
https://biblehub.com/john/10-16.htm
Thanks. You know I'm going to get big-headed since apparently this confirms my belief, don't you?
This is a subject about which I don't really have my mind made up. I believe people are seeing something, but whether we are being visited by beings from another planet/dimension, or if it's a demonic deception, or just plain hokum, I can't say.
What do you think of the whole phenomenon?
I wouldn't post this thread to try to promote one view or another. This isn't AboveTopSecret after all. But it's a subject that deserves some attention because it's very real to many, many people.
I'm posting a poll just to get a consensus on what people think is going on.
I've been doing some reading, and frankly, you can find a lot of evidence for many explanations.
I personally have never seen anything in the sky that didn't have a rational explanation, or even if unexplained just didn't strike me as "extraterrestrial" or otherwise fantastical.
What do you think? Do you have a "UFO" experience?
I think there's been way too many hard sightings my highly experienced people for too long, hard radar sightings by both ground and air, etc, to dismiss that something is in our airspace that is not us. Beyond that, I just don't know and tend to vacillate. What ever it/they are, it also appears they have been with us a long time. I have not seen anything I could not explain, but know a few people I trust who have, and some it just freaky stuff.
Voted aliens. How could you look up at the sky on a clear night and think there is no possibility of other worlds existing?? Have they ever been here? There is enough evidence to satisfy me that they probably have. I do think that 99.99% of the reported sightings can be explained away as man made. We were headed offshore before daylight and came across what by starlight looked like a sphere hovering 50 feet or so above the ocean's surface. We stopped and watched it from about a half mile away. It turned out to be a descending weather balloon. We actually retrieved the little white box and mailed it to the listed address. If we had been within radio range of shore I would have reported it as a UFO and felt pretty stupid 15 minutes later!
While I fully agree, and most scientists will now also agree, really has no bearing at all on whether they visit us. Really a whole other topic.
Outlander Systems
03-08-19, 13:23
:D
In all honesty, I've seen some aerial, things, that defy any mundane explanation. Thank God I wasn't alone when these sightings occurred.
Thanks. You know I'm going to get big-headed since apparently this confirms my belief, don't you?
It seems we are getting the slow drip drip drip of information from the government. Case in point the two Navy F14 pilots over the Pacific and the object tracked at high speed on the east coast from the videos below. It seems like the world's population is getting conditioned for some future release. Knowing enough fundamentalist Christians like I do, I could see mass hysteria from people who will have their entire belief system tossed into the ditch if E.T. is proven to exist. For the fundamentalist believer in any religion, this does not compute. It doesn't fit into the narrow stories of their holy books. I imagine it could create large numbers of suicides and social unrest worldwide.
For me, as a believer in a Supreme Being, I would just say...."cool - that's really neat", and want even more information.
They are out there and they like screwing with Navy pilots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9D8dzl4zGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fd6ssvcBoM
Serious question:
If you got abducted by aliens and weren’t anally probed would you feel relieved or kinda insulted?
This question was posited to me and honestly I still don’t know how I feel about it.
Like a fat girl who gets fed, gets given drinks, gets taken to a park, signals are there, the scene is set and then “You know, it’s been a nice night. Time to get you home.
And you get dropped off, moderately disheveled and reeking of alcohol but undisturbed.
Intellectually, you should be grateful but at some level it’s like “Hey, wait.. Y-you don’t find me attractive? WHAT A JERK!”
Like I dunno, man. I think about that sometimes. No I don’t want someone doing that to me but then they ARE from space and I dunno
Some navel gazing introspection there.
I honestly think 99% of this stuff started with Adamski and then it was a case of "me too" with an almost cultish devotion to wanting it all to be true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski
I honestly think 99% of this stuff started with Adamski and then it was a case of "me too" with an almost cultish devotion to wanting it all to be true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski
I don't think I have ever heard of Adamski before, but I am not into the cult following of anything. I don't want to "Believe" anything, I want to Know.
I don't think I have ever heard of Adamski before, but I am not into the cult following of anything. I don't want to "Believe" anything, I want to Know.
I honestly believe Bin Laden was dead long before Geronimo and there is no Alien technology on Earth because Trump would have tweeted pictures of both.
I DO think they know something is out there since it seems like they are trying to make a Space Force.
I too am a person of faith and because of that; I am not so arrogant as to think we are God’s only children in the universe. I don’t know about xenomorphs or Predators but I figure there are other people out there
I don't think I have ever heard of Adamski before, but I am not into the cult following of anything. I don't want to "Believe" anything, I want to Know.
Wasn't commenting on you, was making a comment about the people who came out of the woodwork with UFO sightings / contacts following Adamski. Many of the things he said at the time sounded "reasonably plausible" to the average person, we know now that just about everything he said wouldn't even be possible.
Wasn't commenting on you, was making a comment about the people who came out of the woodwork with UFO sightings / contacts following Adamski. Many of the things he said at the time sounded "reasonably plausible" to the average person, we know now that just about everything he said wouldn't even be possible.
I know you weren't, and I was just pointing out that personally I don't follow the UFO groupies. About the most I have ever watched (briefly) is this abortion of a TV show called "Ancient Astronauts". I have never seen people stretch as far as they do with ancient rock carvings and claim its an image of some alien in a spacesuit, flying around in a saucer.
MountainRaven
03-08-19, 19:07
I honestly believe Bin Laden was dead long before Geronimo and there is no Alien technology on Earth because Trump would have tweeted pictures of both.
I DO think they know something is out there since it seems like they are trying to make a Space Force.
I too am a person of faith and because of that; I am not so arrogant as to think we are God’s only children in the universe. I don’t know about xenomorphs or Predators but I figure there are other people out there
The "Space Force" will be pointed at earth, not the stars.
The "Space Force" will be pointed at earth, not the stars.
You say that now.....
I know you weren't, and I was just pointing out that personally I don't follow the UFO groupies. About the most I have ever watched (briefly) is this abortion of a TV show called "Ancient Astronauts". I have never seen people stretch as far as they do with ancient rock carvings and claim its an image of some alien in a spacesuit, flying around in a saucer.
Ancient Egyptians clearly had Blackhawk helicopters, Luke Skywalker landspeeders and jet airplanes.
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/80/590x/secondary/Hirep-2-457860.jpg
Obviously brought to them by time traveling aliens while they were there to build the pyramids.
Ancient Egyptians clearly had Blackhawk helicopters, Luke Skywalker landspeeders and jet airplanes.
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/80/590x/secondary/Hirep-2-457860.jpg
Obviously brought to them by time traveling aliens while they were there to build the pyramids.
Yea but it’s all, relative.
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Dr. Bullseye
03-08-19, 20:46
Ancient Egyptians clearly had Blackhawk helicopters, Luke Skywalker landspeeders and jet airplanes.
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/80/590x/secondary/Hirep-2-457860.jpg
Obviously brought to them by time traveling aliens while they were there to build the pyramids.
That is the absolute proof Ufology has been looking for. Erik Prince is an alien.
That is the absolute proof Ufology has been looking for. Erik Prince is an alien.
More importantly, in ancient Egypt they had insects the size of goddam F-15 fighter jets.
Perhaps they are among us already: Elvis & Marilyn didn't really die, they just returned. Still around: Dennis Rodman, Newt, Danny Devito, etc. See attached.
this UFO thread has been a pleasant break from the KAC vs FAL.
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/169103/what-real-life-people-have-been-outed-as-aliens-in-men-in-black
More importantly, in ancient Egypt they had insects the size of goddam F-15 fighter jets.
That's right. Remember the plague of locusts which God sent upon Ramesses II (1279–1213 BC) because he wouldn't let the Israelites leave. Based on your find of that ancient carving, we know these locusts had a wingspan of @ 43 feet.
With these kind of groundbreaking discoveries, SteyrAUG, you should consider a new version of the Exodus story which could be transformed into a screenplay, and later film which would have a science fiction feel to it. Maybe something like the Sharknado series of high-end art....? ;)
MountainRaven
03-10-19, 19:13
That's right. Remember the plague of locusts which God sent upon Ramesses II (1279–1213 BC) because he wouldn't let the Israelites leave. Based on your find of that ancient carving, we know these locusts had a wingspan of @ 43 feet.
With these kind of groundbreaking discoveries, SteyrAUG, you should consider a new version of the Exodus story which could be transformed into a screenplay, and later film which would have a science fiction feel to it. Maybe something like the Sharknado series of high-end art?
Don't forget an epilogue where the virgin Mary gets abducted and impregnated by aliens, before being dumped back on earth with Joseph.
Don't forget an epilogue where the virgin Mary gets abducted and impregnated by aliens, before being dumped back on earth with Joseph.
THAT’S what I’m talkin’ about...
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5893faa1ebbd1a8f680352a1/t/5b468335aa4a99d99e8845c5/1531349134876/THECONFESSIONALS7.jpg
There isn’t a profound enough “Rollseyes” emoticon for me to adequately express myself in this thread.
So those of you who do follow UFO events, which do you find the most compelling? While the more recent vids and such from fighter jets and such are difficult to impossible to explain, the Rendlesham Forest incident is still the one for me that really blows my mind. Either a bunch of guys with top level clearance, plenty of training to know what a light house, a weather balloon, etc looks like, decided to play a big prank, or something really bizarre happened there.
Now, we hae hard radar, multi highly qualified eyewitness, and zero rational explanations as to what they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106&v=tf1uLwUTDA0
video released by the Defense Department’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program of a 2004 encounter near San Diego between two Navy F/A-18F fighter jets and an unknown object. (Credit: U.S. Department of Defense via The New York Times/Redux)
I’ve always found the NASA oopsie footage intriguing.
Like hey look at that really weird / cut.....
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I’ve always found the NASA oopsie footage intriguing.
Like hey look at that really weird / cut.....
The Apollo guys regularly reported being followed by a UFO and were told to shut up about it and would switch to the non public channel to discuss with Houston. One reason I don't tend to think it's just our black project stuff is pilots on all sides, US and German, reported being followed by UFOs regularly. Now, today maybe it is our stuff and "others" stuff, I don't know, but they have been reported by highly credible people for a long time and the reports very consistent, well before the "flying saucer" craze started in the 50s via some cheesy photos
The video is compelling, but the interview with one of the pilots is even more. He discussed one of those objects at 60,000 feet, then dropping in a couple of seconds to sea level and interacting with some sub-surface disturbance. There is nothing known to man that can do those kinds of maneuvers that fast with no heat trail of any kind.
So those of you who do follow UFO events, which do you find the most compelling? While the more recent vids and such from fighter jets and such are difficult to impossible to explain, the Rendlesham Forest incident is still the one for me that really blows my mind. Either a bunch of guys with top level clearance, plenty of training to know what a light house, a weather balloon, etc looks like, decided to play a big prank, or something really bizarre happened there.
Now, we hae hard radar, multi highly qualified eyewitness, and zero rational explanations as to what they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=106&v=tf1uLwUTDA0
video released by the Defense Department’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program of a 2004 encounter near San Diego between two Navy F/A-18F fighter jets and an unknown object. (Credit: U.S. Department of Defense via The New York Times/Redux)
https://townsquare.media/site/124/files/2012/11/Ancient-Aliens-Meme-Hair-Guy-0131-600x630.jpg?w=980&q=75
Grand58742
03-10-19, 22:10
My biggest problem with the current UFO "sightings" is the fact that everyone has a camera on them these days. And we record everything. But for the most past, these reports have dialed back considerably rather than going up as one might imagine.
Shouldn't there be a whole lot more pictures and videos of UFOs if they were indeed visiting us as "frequently" as many claimed back in the 50s-70s?
The video is compelling, but the interview with one of the pilots is even more. He discussed one of those objects at 60,000 feet, then dropping in a couple of seconds to sea level and interacting with some sub-surface disturbance. There is nothing known to man that can do those kinds of maneuvers that fast with no heat trail of any kind.
If it's the same event I thinking of, the behavior of the object was also confirmed by the USS Nimitz.
I said that exact same thing to a friend who then told me how he had seen one years back. He is a person I respect.
Outlander Systems
03-11-19, 00:47
Pretty cool swamp gas video:
https://youtu.be/q6s5RwqnnLM
Pretty cool swamp gas video:
https://youtu.be/q6s5RwqnnLM
Looks like a weather balloon to me.
Looks like a weather balloon to me.
Tough to tell with that one. It does not seem to be demonstrating the classic behavior of those UFOs that are clearly not weather balloons, etc, sch as changing direction at speeds no man made vehicle can match and doing so at a rate that would liquefy any human in it. That one does look like something being carried by the wind to me also, but not my area of expertise.
Looks like a weather balloon to me.
If there's an 80 knot wind blowing. Also it seems to divide in two towards the end of the video. Weird stuff.
If there's an 80 knot wind blowing. Also it seems to divide in two towards the end of the video. Weird stuff.
If a Maj. (Ret) from the 160th SOAR, says something is weird in flight, then it's weird. It's great getting such input from SMEs on this forum.
I guess I should have made my sarcasm a little more obvious.....
If a Maj. (Ret) from the 160th SOAR, says something is weird in flight, then it's weird. It's great getting such input from SMEs on this forum.
I didn't retire from the 160th - I promoted out in January 1994 (After Gothic Serpent). Did Pentagon duty then back to Campbell with 2/17 CAV. I was with this latter Regiment thru Kosovo and retired in December 1999. I am no expert of any kind on this kind of thing. For all the years I flew, I never saw a UFO. Probably too busy looking for ground threats/targets. Head always on the swivel.
I guess I should have made my sarcasm a little more obvious.....
Sarcasm is fine. I just had to look at the video even closer to make sure I wasn't missing anything based on your comment.
I didn't retire from the 160th - I promoted out in January 1994 (After Gothic Serpent). Did Pentagon duty then back to Campbell with 2/17 CAV. I was with this latter Regiment thru Kosovo and retired in December 1999. I am no expert of any kind on this kind of thing. For all the years I flew, I never saw a UFO. Probably too busy looking for ground threats/targets. Head always on the swivel.
Then lets say your a damn bit more qualified as to the expected and known flight characteristics of what's out there than the average derpa derp who watched a few vids on the topic. Maybe not an SME on UFOs, but you'd know somethin' don't look/act right. We have commercial pilots, various fighter pilots, Night Stalkers, astronauts, not various ground personnel with extensive training, who agree apparently, something is in our airspace that is not of any know design we have nor could produce. So, whether it's black project stuff of ours, or "other" remains to be determined. What it's not is swamp gas, weather balloons, nor a light house and such.
I think that much we are all confident of at this juncture.
It would be easy to go down a rabbit hole with all of this. Now Tucker is getting in on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDj9ZZQY2kA
morbidbattlecry
03-12-19, 16:19
Probably about 99% of sightings are BS, but there are about 10 that are really good.
Averageman
03-13-19, 04:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsEd_b1C8DY
Damned good interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsEd_b1C8DY
Damned good interview.
Yup, seen it. It's amazing. It's also why I don't tend to think what we see now is our tech. They were reported by pilots in WWII regularly, from both sides, behaving just as they do today. We thought it as some German super tech and the Germans thought it was our super tech. We have some amazing tech, no doubt the best of it still under wraps and classified, but in WWII? 1950s? 60s? Not a chance.
I always wondered if our leaders would warn us if something or someone was headed our way. If true how could they not see this coming?? They say space rock but I wouldn't bet on it! https://www.foxnews.com/science/us-detects-meteor-explosion-10-times-the-energy-as-atomic-bomb-report
I guess this thread died.
I guess this thread died.
Only until the next abduction complete with orifice probes.
Diamondback
03-18-19, 20:10
I always wondered if our leaders would warn us if something or someone was headed our way. If true how could they not see this coming?? They say space rock but I wouldn't bet on it! https://www.foxnews.com/science/us-detects-meteor-explosion-10-times-the-energy-as-atomic-bomb-report
No, they'd quietly bunker up and throw us proles under the bus in the name of "maintaining order and preventing mass panic"--besides, dead proles don't challenge the Regime, and many of them believe there are too many of us and the herd needs thinning anyway.
As to the original question: On the one hand, it's a BIG universe and I don't see God leaving things sit idle on the scale that would be required to only create intelligent life on one little rock in it. On the other, seeing what we're capable of toward our own kind never mind anybody else, if *I* were ET I wouldn't want anything other than uncrewed probes getting any closer to this system than the Alpha Centauri system at extreme closest, and even that being largely just to make sure that the troubles of our little meth-head trailer park don't spread to the rest of the galactic neighborhood.
I just can’t get past the idea that all these aliens, who are so advanced, keep crashing all over the planet.
I just can’t get past the idea that all these aliens, who are so advanced, keep crashing all over the planet.
Not to mention getting tracked by our 20th century tech. If we can hide a plane from the Russian's, better believe a species advanced enough to go from there to here can probably hide an entire fleet.
MorphCross
03-19-19, 00:20
I just can’t get past the idea that all these aliens, who are so advanced, keep crashing all over the planet.
Ah that is easy to explain...Drunk teenage aliens. :sarcastic:
Outlander Systems
03-20-19, 11:56
Interview with a former Senator discussing the topic:
https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/local-news/i-team-former-sen-reid-wants-ufo-studies-made-public/1815200177
Interview with a former Senator discussing the topic:
https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/local-news/i-team-former-sen-reid-wants-ufo-studies-made-public/1815200177
Very cool!
The_War_Wagon
03-20-19, 14:26
I LOVE Star Trek, because most of the episodes, are just good story telling.
But I hate to inform you, that there ain't no other bipedal, humanoid life forms out there in the universe - no Klingons, no Romulans, no Ferengi, & no Gorn. :p We're all that there is.
I LOVE Star Trek, because most of the episodes, are just good story telling.
But I hate to inform you, that there ain't no other bipedal, humanoid life forms out there in the universe - no Klingons, no Romulans, no Ferengi, & no Gorn. :p We're all that there is.
How do you know that?
How do you know that?
I'd like to know also. No way the possibility can be ruled out. We discover new species on earth almost monthly. It would be difficult to convince me we are the only life form that exist. Space is a big place in which we are only a tiny grain of sand.
I LOVE Star Trek, because most of the episodes, are just good story telling.
But I hate to inform you, that there ain't no other bipedal, humanoid life forms out there in the universe - no Klingons, no Romulans, no Ferengi, & no Gorn. :p We're all that there is.
You have no way of knowing that, and the math says otherwise. Two, what ever that is our best and brightest in their best toys are chasing around that perform as nothing we have can will tell you, aint swamp gas nor weather balloons. So for now, the best we can do is admit we just don't know (the U in UFO...) but there's only two possibilities here: It's some ultra advanced tech produce, or it's not, and every SME on the topic who sees them, says it's not us and we're not even close to that level of tech.
I'd like to know also. No way the possibility can be ruled out. We discover new species on earth almost monthly. It would be difficult to convince me we are the only life form that exist. Space is a big place in which we are only a tiny grain of sand.
Given the statistics...I think it's a vast improbability that we would be the only self-aware bi-pedal oxygen-breathers in the universe. I doubt that they're visiting us, but I think it's highly unlikely that they're not out there.
Given the statistics...I think it's a vast improbability that we would be the only self-aware bi-pedal oxygen-breathers in the universe. I doubt that they're visiting us, but I think it's highly unlikely that they're not out there.
Not sure they are visiting us today but it's hard to believe they haven't visited before. Why do similar pyramids exist on many different continents? It's like some guy in Egypt woke up one morning and said "Let's go build one in Mexico for shits and giggles".
MountainRaven
03-20-19, 16:52
Not sure they are visiting us today but it's hard to believe they haven't visited before. Why do similar pyramids exist on many different continents? It's like some guy in Egypt woke up one morning and said "Let's go build one in Mexico for shits and giggles".
Or maybe all human brains work similarly and structures akin to pyramids make an awful lot of structural sense?
Not sure they are visiting us today but it's hard to believe they haven't visited before. Why do similar pyramids exist on many different continents? It's like some guy in Egypt woke up one morning and said "Let's go build one in Mexico for shits and giggles".
If you're working with what they had for materials, your choices for designs as you go up tend to limit strongly to one of a few designs I suspect. That part never really bothered me. How they moved 100 ton blocks of stone, and fit them together as they did, etc, is what still "bothers" me.
Or maybe all human brains work similarly and structures akin to pyramids make an awful lot of structural sense?
Dat too...
Not sure they are visiting us today but it's hard to believe they haven't visited before. Why do similar pyramids exist on many different continents? It's like some guy in Egypt woke up one morning and said "Let's go build one in Mexico for shits and giggles".
It may be because there are some people that just want to believe it more than I do. I think it's easy to believe that they haven't visited before because there's no consistently credible evidence to be able to draw that conclusion. Until that happens, for me, it remains firmly in the "maybe, maybe not" category. I'm prepared to believe it, but I don't believe it.
.
It may be because there are some people that just want to believe it more than I do. I think it's easy to believe that they haven't visited before because there's no consistently credible evidence to be able to draw that conclusion. Until that happens, for me, it remains firmly in the "maybe, maybe not" category. I'm prepared to believe it, but I don't believe it.
.You mean we are not the "Yellowstone park" of the galaxy?
Instead of on the clock geysers you get wars springing up periodically
Or the South Park episode where Earth was actually televised entertainment for the whole universe ....and the show was about to get cancelled?
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It may be because there are some people that just want to believe it more than I do. I think it's easy to believe that they haven't visited before because there's no consistently credible evidence to be able to draw that conclusion. Until that happens, for me, it remains firmly in the "maybe, maybe not" category. I'm prepared to believe it, but I don't believe it.
.
Good way to hedge a bet... Not believing but being ready to believe is kinda like betting heads and tails on a coin flip. You are man for stepping up to the table but you cannot win or lose. Not really a bad position to take. Kinda like being agnostic... Believing just enough to keep you out of the fire if there really happens to be hell. I understand.
That part never really bothered me. How they moved 100 ton blocks of stone, and fit them together as they did, etc, is what still "bothers" me.
With millions of slaves anything is possible.
With millions of slaves anything is possible.
I agree but you have to be able to feed the slaves if you want to get much out of them. Dead slaves don't do much work. Very doable in central America but harder to do in Egypt. When did the Egyptians start eating cows anyway.
Don't worry, Harry Reid will get to the bottom of this for you
......with our tax dollars. :alcoholic:
https://www.rollcall.com/news/hoh/harry-reid-lobbying-ufo-research-reporting
Business_Casual
03-20-19, 19:25
With millions of slaves anything is possible.
I doubt they were slaves; my take is more like a national effort like our space program or a religious drive like Norte Dame.
The reason they built pyramids everywhere is simple: if you use stone you have to make the next level up narrower or it will just fall over.
Not sure they are visiting us today but it's hard to believe they haven't visited before. Why do similar pyramids exist on many different continents? It's like some guy in Egypt woke up one morning and said "Let's go build one in Mexico for shits and giggles".
Because it's a simple, basic self supporting structure that even children build with blocks. Also if you look at the progression of pyramids in Egypt, lots of trial and error.
MountainRaven
03-21-19, 02:14
Because it's a simple, basic self supporting structure that even children build with blocks. Also if you look at the progression of pyramids in Egypt, lots of trial and error.
It's probably also worth bearing in mind that not only do these pyramids occur thousands of miles apart, in places where early civilizations took root, but that they were often built many thousands of years apart.
Good way to hedge a bet... Not believing but being ready to believe is kinda like betting heads and tails on a coin flip. You are man for stepping up to the table but you cannot win or lose. Not really a bad position to take. Kinda like being agnostic... Believing just enough to keep you out of the fire if there really happens to be hell. I understand.
Some people want to believe some things badly enough that they will accept crappy evidence. The more they want to believe it, the crappier the evidence they're willing to accept, and there are some people that want to believe so badly that they'll make decisions based on no evidence. You're right...I'm not emotionally invested in the the existence of alien-piloted UFOs visiting Earth, therefore I don't have to "step up to the table" and make a decision. I'm going to need a higher level of evidence to swallow the party line in this thread.
.
This thread got me looking at YouTube UFO videos. There is a UFO industry out there: movies, tv shows, videos, books, etc. If you want to believe, there is plenty of info to back you up. The hard part is parsing out what is legit from the background noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1XyqaFuX1o
This thread got me looking at YouTube UFO videos. There is a UFO industry out there: movies, tv shows, videos, books, etc. If you want to believe, there is plenty of info to back you up. The hard part is parsing out what is legit from the background noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1XyqaFuX1o
He's not saying anything we don't know, and does ignore some realities out there. Alien abduction is of course a different topic unrelated really to what is being discussed. Saying we don't have better evidence today than we did, is his ignoring reality, some of which posted here.
His comments on the human perception being easily manipulate, totally true. That we have multiple radar conformations from several f18s, as well as USS Nimitz, and and visuals, well, that's a tad different...
He's right, that does not = it's aliens.
Yes, until something lands on the white house lawn, it's still the U in UFO.
What it's not however is simple human need to see aliens in some cases. In most to be sure, it's people seeing what they wish to see. Finally, I will counter that with Astronaut Story Musgrave MD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOExg1B4Lk8
His comments on the human perception being easily manipulate, totally true.
Yes, until something lands on the white house lawn, it's still the U in UFO.
Bingo!!
Bingo!!
As much as i wanna belief, I/we must remain objective, or we don't get anywhere. But, at this point, basic application of reduction leaves us with two possibilities:
What's flying around our airspace, confirmed repeatedly by multiple hard radar locks and other objective measures in addition to the eyewitness accounts by SME's is:
Not us
Or Us
So far, all SME's interviewed who have been part of those events state the former...but until something lands on the white house lawn, it's still the U in UFO. :ph34r:
...but until something lands on the white house lawn, it's still the U in UFO. :ph34r:
I’d settle for a Ferengi waving out the window next time he buzzes one of our aircraft carriers (as long as there are photographs). In the meantime, I find the cognitive leap between “multiple hard radar locks” and “that must be an alien-piloted space craft” to be pretty vast, and amusingly reinforces Story Musgrave's observation about how easily human perception is manipulated.
.
Doc Safari
03-22-19, 13:27
Even if you accept the premise that aliens are real, what makes you think they care about "contacting" us?
We may be nothing but dairy cows or beef cattle to them. Why else would abductions in huge numbers involve the harvesting of sex cells (sperm and ova)? Why are they interested in our reproductive functions? Are they creating herds of humans for food somewhere?
Even if you accept the premise that aliens are real, what makes you think they care about "contacting" us?
We may be nothing but dairy cows or beef cattle to them. Why else would abductions in huge numbers involve the harvesting of sex cells (sperm and ova)? Why are they interested in our reproductive functions? Are they creating herds of humans for food somewhere?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI
Doc Safari
05-15-19, 13:06
Stanton Friedman has passed.
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/rip-stanton-friedman/
Coast to Coast AM is deeply saddened to share the news that iconic UFO researcher Stanton T. Friedman has passed away at the age of 84. He is undoubtedly best known for being the first civilian investigator to research the landmark Roswell incident. His explosive uncovering of the mysterious 1947 event in New Mexico left an indelible mark on not only UFO studies, but the zeitgeist as well with 'Roswell' becoming synonymous with the phenomenon in the minds of millions of individuals around the world. A myriad of books, movies, TV shows, and other forms of media that explored the infamous incident can be traced back to Friedman putting Roswell on the proverbial map of UFO lore.
As he settled into the role of elder statesman in the world of UFO studies, Friedman affectionately came to be known as the 'Father of Modern Day Ufology.' A beloved fixture in the community, his sharp wit, classic quips, and fastidious attention to detail when it came to the 'nuts and bolts' of flying saucers were legendary. And his indefatigable advocacy for the reality of the UFO phenomenon led to many considering him to be perhaps the greatest champion for the subject that the field has ever known.
My take: I think without Stanton Friedman the subject of UFO's would not have near the credibility it has now. Of particular interest, Friedman was one of the few people with the courage to question the veracity of Bob Lazar's claims when most of the rest of the UFO community considered his stories of Area 51 to be Gospel.
Adrenaline_6
05-15-19, 15:03
For all the people that scream science and probability. Listen to this in it's entirety, take in what the mathematical probability of life spontaneously forming actually is from an actual scientist explaining what it would actually take to happen and then make a scientifically based opinion on it: My take - effing impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7Lww-sBPg&feature=youtu.be
I’m gonna be “That Guy”.
Ever notice how it’s always anal probes. Always.
Like what if Earth is just like a playground of naive, short lived primates and like all these aliens are like space chomos.
This big fact is why we need to weaponize space sooner than later and perhaps pre-emptively send bombs and VX gas to whatever life sustaining planets there are.
For all the people that scream science and probability. Listen to this in it's entirety, take in what the mathematical probability of life spontaneously forming actually is from an actual scientist explaining what it would actually take to happen and then make a scientifically based opinion on it: My take - effing impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7Lww-sBPg&feature=youtu.be
As we have only one example (Earth) to look at, it's currently impossible to calculate with any reasonable accuracy at all as to the mathematical likelihood of "...life spontaneously forming" or otherwise and anything else is hypothesis (read mental masturbation) and biased. By all accounts however, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. Whether that lift has ever visited us, is a completely different issue/topic.
MountainRaven
05-15-19, 16:18
As we have only one example (Earth) to look at, it's currently impossible to calculate with any reasonable accuracy at all as to the mathematical likelihood of "...life spontaneously forming" or otherwise and anything else is hypothesis (read mental masturbation) and biased. By all accounts however, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. Whether that lift has ever visited us, is a completely different issue/topic.
Also worth remembering that we keep finding life on this planet in places where we previously believed life would be impossible. And, in fact, there’s at least one animal we know of - tardigrades - that have demonstrated the ability to survive in the irradiated vacuum of space.
Ever notice how it’s always anal probes. Always.
Aliens and anal probes go together like peas and carrotts. IMHO, that's not a coincidence.
Also worth remembering that we keep finding life on this planet in places where we previously believed life would be impossible. And, in fact, there’s at least one animal we know of - tardigrades - that have demonstrated the ability to survive in the irradiated vacuum of space.
Yes, we used to think life was fragile and rare, we found it's tough as chit, exists everywhere, and contrary to prior understanding, does not need sunlight either. It lives in the most hostile environments the planet has, and thrives. No one in science claims to know how life started on this planet either, so that too is fail. There's a number of hypothesis, some more generally accepted than others, none considered a lock. Most scientists conclude (due to any lack of evidence to the contrary) that life developed over time some how as ever more organized molecules formed, and so forth, with a strong possibility some of the essential building blocks came from off planet via comets and possibly even Mars, and the rest is mostly interesting WAGs at this point. Whether some consciousness/higher power etc, had a hand in it some place is possible, and is a likely to have been aliens as anything else, but there's no actual evidence for it. There is some pretty compelling ideas from the Ancient Alien Theorist types, but they're too loose with the facts to be taken too seriously.
Bottom line here is, given enough time and the right building blocks for it, is life common or incredibly rare? That can't be answered with n= 1 earth to go by, but "the numbers" at least would strongly suggest it's not rare.
I’m a complete skeptic when it comes to ghosts, gods, demons, or anything paranormal, but I’ve always been agnostic about the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligent life and UFOs. I have personally seen a UFO. Now, I’m not making any judgements as to what I saw, just that it was UNIDENTIFIED and FLYING.
I was on a coach bus traveling at highway speeds on a rural stretch of road. It was about 02:00 and I was the only passenger awake as far as I know. Off in the distance in a field (hard to judge exactly how far, but probably somewhere between 400-800 yards) I saw a dark yellow, glowing object maybe the size of a beachball or stability ball (hard to tell how big it actually was because I couldn’t tell how far away it was) traveling parellel to our bus and moving up and down in a sinusoidal pattern. It continued with us for about 2 minutes until we passed some trees, then it disappeared.
I’m positive I was awake, I’m positive I saw it, and I’m positive it wasn’t a firefly/lightning bug (65 mph).
Another time I saw a similar object while lying in bed at night. It moved in the same sinusoidal pattern back and forth (left to right with the sine wave pattern) for about 45 seconds then shot upward at a 60-80 degree angle VERY quickly. Again, it was hard to determine size or distance, but it was several hundred yards away.
I don’t expect anyone to believe what I saw, but it’s completely unexplainable IMHO.
I’m a complete skeptic when it comes to ghosts, gods, demons, or anything paranormal, but I’ve always been agnostic about the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligent life and UFOs.
The thing that puzzles me about the reports of ghosts, gods, and demons is that they aren’t typically associated with anal probes.
I have no doubt there is intelligent life out there in the universe. I find the concept that those aliens might be flying around buzzing aircraft carriers here on earth to be...amusing.
Outlander Systems
05-15-19, 18:50
What I want to know is why the aliens aren’t down with MAGA. Like, they’re always on about some New Age, Laurel-Canyon tier bullshit. You never hear about aliens bringing a message of Gott, Kaiser und Vaterland. Really activates the almonds..
Grand58742
05-15-19, 20:30
As we have only one example (Earth) to look at, it's currently impossible to calculate with any reasonable accuracy at all as to the mathematical likelihood of "...life spontaneously forming" or otherwise and anything else is hypothesis (read mental masturbation) and biased. By all accounts however, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. Whether that lift has ever visited us, is a completely different issue/topic.
Just in our galaxy, we have at least 250 billion stars. With exoplanet discoveries, there are estimated to be at least 100 billion planets. Low end figures as more planets are being discovered day in and day out. I'd be surprised if that number isn't in the trillions.
It's estimated to be at least 200 billion galaxies, maybe that number is in the trillions as astronomers are upping that number all the time.
The number of possible planets in the known universe is too absurd to even type out. I'd dare say the odds are greatly in favor of planets with life supporting potential out there.
For all the people that scream science and probability. Listen to this in it's entirety, take in what the mathematical probability of life spontaneously forming actually is from an actual scientist explaining what it would actually take to happen and then make a scientifically based opinion on it: My take - effing impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7Lww-sBPg&feature=youtu.be
Some seem to be selective about what science they'll accept and what science they reject. Since scientists haven't got a clue about how chemicals could evolve by chance into life it's just taken in by faith that it happen...the alternative is too much to bear.
The new man's religion...scientism.
Some seem to be selective about what science they'll accept and what science they reject. Since scientists haven't got a clue about how chemicals could evolve by chance into life it's just taken in by faith that it happen...the alternative is too much to bear.
The new man's religion...scientism.One could argue the alternative is too much to bear because it doesn’t make sense.
Or creationism is nonsensical BS so that’s an option too.
I’m not saying discount the potential for a creator in form or context but getting biblical with the stuff is lol worthy
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One could argue the alternative is too much to bear because it doesn’t make sense.
Then the best any of us could hope for is pure skepticism. We have zero hope of ever really knowing even one thing as true.
What's the real motivation for people wanting alien existence to be true?
Do you both admit that you have faith that chemical evolution occurred?
MountainRaven
05-15-19, 23:12
We were in a better place theologically when men of God agreed that nothing in religion refuted science and nothing in science refuted religion.
We were in a better place theologically when men of God agreed that nothing in religion refuted science and nothing in science refuted religion.
That pretty much changed forever with Darwin.
MountainRaven
05-15-19, 23:17
That pretty much changed forever with Darwin.
Because evolution refutes the existence of God?
Because evolution refutes the existence of God?
I would say Darwinism denies the existence of God. It postulates life from matter and energy by an unknown process...thus no God needed.
Pretty much before Darwin, most scientists in the west were Christians or at least theists.
Outlander Systems
05-16-19, 07:17
Atomistic materialism robs man of telos.
I would say Darwinism denies the existence of God. It postulates life from matter and energy by an unknown process...thus no God needed.
Pretty much before Darwin, most scientists in the west were Christians or at least theists.
Then the best any of us could hope for is pure skepticism. We have zero hope of ever really knowing even one thing as true.
What's the real motivation for people wanting alien existence to be true?
Do you both admit that you have faith that chemical evolution occurred?
Many people want so badly to believe that that "one thing is true" that they will go to great lengths to make something up that can satisfy that desperate desire, institutionalize it because in their primitiveness they have no other explanation, and then accept it as "true". For some, it's a magical being that waved his/her hand and said "let there be light", and for others it's physiology, biochemistry, and genetics. Yeah. I think life emerged over billions of years from a primordial soup of chemicals and I think Darwinism is spot-on. I think that because, to me, it makes more sense than mysticism, ritual, and institutionalized superstition. YMMV, and I think that's fine.
I don't "want" alien existence to be true, it just is. A statistical inevitability.
...
One could argue the alternative is too much to bear because it doesn’t make sense.
Well, there's that...
Because evolution refutes the existence of God?
Such a comment indicates a poor to zero knowledge of science. A nicely written article:
http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 09:24
As we have only one example (Earth) to look at, it's currently impossible to calculate with any reasonable accuracy at all as to the mathematical likelihood of "...life spontaneously forming" or otherwise and anything else is hypothesis (read mental masturbation) and biased. By all accounts however, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. Whether that lift has ever visited us, is a completely different issue/topic.
Shear numbers? Did you actually watch the video? If not, please do. He explains how hard it is to make something. He goes into detail the purity needed, the exact temperature changes required, that DNA isn't even the complicated part. That in order for DNA to be made, their has to have enzymes in place to check it for errors and fix it to begin with which is more complicated than the DNA itself. How does a super complicated enzyme form to check something that doesn't exist and then the applicable DNA then form for it to check?
Like he mentions over and over in the video. Nobody knows, the scientists purposely leave it out of their research and never try to explain it because they can't, there never has been life made with chemicals, they have been lying the whole time. There are so many gotchas in there that result in ultimate fail and the process having to start from the beginning again (millions of years back to square one), it is literally impossible to look at it from a scientific standpoint and say "yeah, I still think this could happen" and not consider this theory a faith based religion in itself.
An all knowing God that figured this all out and designed it is a million times more believable when you watch this (actually 10 to the 79,000,000,000th if you watched the video, you'll get the reference).
One could argue the alternative is too much to bear because it doesn’t make sense.
Actually watch the video, realize the sheer impossibility of this happening and then see which one actually doesn't make sense. His science silences Atheist everywhere because he uses science to demonstrate the absolute garbage that we have been fed on this theory. Zero advancement on the theory in over 60 years. Why? Garbage.
Like he mentions over and over in the video. Nobody knows, the scientists purposely leave it out of their research and never try to explain it because they can't, there never has been life made with chemicals, they have been lying the whole time.
That statement alone suggests this area science is not your lane. No one is "lying" nor has any scientist claimed they know, much less proved, how life on earth started. Again, they hypothesize how it may have taken place, minus any assumption God(s), higher powers, or extraterrestrials were involved, and over time have better models of what may have taken place. No one knows, nor does anyone claim to know, nor did anyone in my many science courses taken, text books read, lectures attended, etc, etc ever claim to know how life began on earth.
There's an approximate knowledge when life started, and a very good model for how it evolved over time, but how it started is unknown, and strictly theoretical at this time. Way more Qs then answers exist on that one.
Not sure why they needs to be repeated over and over here. And again, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. To repeat, whether it's common or incredibly rare can't be ascertained currently as we have only one example to work with.
It's a shame this interesting thread is going in an utterly unnecessary direction that will see it locked soon.
One of the more prestigious publications discussing possible pathways by which life formed, not a one, making any claims at all it's conclusively understood and being clear as many Qs remain as answers:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-did-life-begin1/
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 09:58
That statement alone suggests this area science is not your lane. No one is "lying" nor has any scientist claimed they know, much less proved, how life on earth started. Again, they hypothesize how it may have taken place, minus any assumption God(s), higher powers, or extraterrestrials were involved, and over time have better models of what may have taken place. No one knows, nor does anyone claim to know, nor did anyone in my many science courses taken, text books read, lectures attended, etc, etc ever claim to know how life began on earth.
There's an approximate knowledge when life started, and a very good model for how it evolved over time, but how it started is unknown, and strictly theoretical at this time. Way more Qs then answers exist on that one.
Not sure why they needs to be repeated over and over here. And again, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. To repeat, whether it's common or incredibly rare can't be ascertained currently as we have only one example to work with.
It's a shame this interesting thread is going in an utterly unnecessary direction that will see it locked soon.
That's the problem tough right, there are no better models, that theory like he mentioned has had no real advancement in 60+ years, unlike, pretty much everything else. You keep mentioning sheer numbers, but ignore the sheer numbers that he mentions. I don't understand that and as far as disputing it...he does. He explains it in detail how improbable this swirl of chemicals in an uncontrolled, unpure environment is likely to happen and how many different ways it will fail and forced to start over from the absolute beginning.
One could argue the alternative is too much to bear because it doesn’t make sense.
Take your pick existential nihilism or something like I think.
That's the problem tough right, there are no better models, that theory like he mentioned has had no real advancement in 60+ years,
According to who? Him? Do you actually follow the science? I suspect not, and maybe you et al should be less gullible to statements that support personal wishes and bias. Hint: it's not true. Incredible advancement and knowledge obtained made in "60+" years. In terms of the basic model, there's nothing to change. I'm agnostic about the possibility that some outside intelligence like extraterrestrials had a hand in it some how, like seeded the planet or other, but minus any actual support for it, the basic model that like happened cuz it happened, is where the model will and should remain. And "I can't believe it happened like that so God did it" is not a reason to alter how science approaches the Q. As far as Tour is concerned, not actually his lane which he readily admits to:
https://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2014/03/a-chemist-who-doesnt-understand.html
unlike, pretty much everything else. You keep mentioning sheer numbers, but ignore the sheer numbers that he mentions. I don't understand that and as far as disputing it...he does. He explains it in detail how improbable this swirl of chemicals in an uncontrolled, unpure environment is likely to happen and how many different ways it will fail and forced to start over from the absolute beginning.
Irrelevant and already covered. In bold, you don't know what you don't know and I supplied an excellent article for those who want to know what the latest intel on the topic is.
If you wish to ignore that in favor of a vid, all good by me. :cool:
Take your pick existential nihilism or something like I think.
Over the course of the last several decades evaluating various theories and available evidence, I did take my pick.
Over the course of the last several decades evaluating various theories and available evidence, I did take my pick.
And what did you pick, one of those 2 or something else?
Actually watch the video, realize the sheer impossibility of this happening and then see which one actually doesn't make sense. His science silences Atheist everywhere because he uses science to demonstrate the absolute garbage that we have been fed on this theory. Zero advancement on the theory in over 60 years. Why? Garbage.
I think that video, as is true of many such tracts and rationalizations since the time of LaPlace, is an example of wishing so hard that disciples of that ethos will actually believe the presentation regardless of whether or not it makes any sense.
And what did you pick, one of those 2 or something else?
Something else.
That statement alone suggests this area science is not your lane. No one is "lying" nor has any scientist claimed they know, much less proved, how life on earth started. Again, they hypothesize how it may have taken place, minus any assumption God(s), higher powers, or extraterrestrials were involved, and over time have better models of what may have taken place. No one knows, nor does anyone claim to know, nor did anyone in my many science courses taken, text books read, lectures attended, etc, etc ever claim to know how life began on earth.
There's an approximate knowledge when life started, and a very good model for how it evolved over time, but how it started is unknown, and strictly theoretical at this time. Way more Qs then answers exist on that one.
Not sure why they needs to be repeated over and over here. And again, the shear numbers we are working with suggests it's mathematically improbable that life does not exist other than earth, and that's not disputed by anyone in the field really. To repeat, whether it's common or incredibly rare can't be ascertained currently as we have only one example to work with.
It's a shame this interesting thread is going in an utterly unnecessary direction that will see it locked soon.
One of the more prestigious publications discussing possible pathways by which life formed, not a one, making any claims at all it's conclusively understood and being clear as many Qs remain as answers:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-did-life-begin1/
Read the article, quite a yarn. Scientists believe seems to be the operative principle.sounds like faith in a hoped for process. Doesn't really tells us how this process could actually produce a mind boggling complex one cell organism.
Something else.
A secret, ok. Does it tell why you and aliens exist...what our purpose is?
Read the article, quite a yarn. Scientists believe seems to be the operative principle.sounds like faith in a hoped for process. Doesn't really tells us how this process could actually produce a mind boggling complex one cell organism.
That's the point. No is claiming they have the answers and calls of scientists "lying" about that is complete BS. No one claims to know, no one is lying, lots of Qs left to answer. There's a number of variations on the basic model as how it happened, and that's all we have at the moment. All science starts with question, then seeks to find evidence to answer the Q. So far, those are best hypothesis that exists and new aspects being learned all the time.
Aliens and anal probes go together like peas and carrotts. IMHO, that's not a coincidence.
In all likelihood, they are trying to study our brains and on the basis of human behavior; they assume the anus is the most direct point of access.
Doc Safari
05-16-19, 11:03
In all likelihood, they are trying to study our brains and on the basis of human behavior; they assume the anus is the most direct point of access.
And they are correct. :lol:
Outlander Systems
05-16-19, 11:13
This thread needs more discussion with regards to the Flatwoods Monster.
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 11:20
That's the point. No is claiming they have the answers and calls of scientists "lying" about that is complete BS. No one claims to know, no one is lying, lots of Qs left to answer. There's a number of variations on the basic model as how it happened, and that's all we have at the moment. All science starts with question, then seeks to find evidence to answer the Q. So far, those are best hypothesis that exists and new aspects being learned all the time.
The End.
Again, did you actually watch the video or are you critiquing it without doing so? His claims about lying is about actual articles published in major scientific journals about "origin of life" theories. Your right about hypothesis and a question, but after that it is proving the hypothesis. He explains with science on how unproven and faulty those hypotheses are with real science and chemistry. Your right it is not his field, his field is Chemistry which he knows a lot about which he shows in detail with chemistry how impossible this scenario is.
He says there are no major developments in the theory 60+ years. The fact that no one has ever made a molecule in a controlled environment much less an uncontrolled one. Sure, guys come up with new theories, but he explains that it is the same turd in a different wrapper with nothing new being explained and the same unexplained things that shut this theory down purposely ignored and left out in their research papers.
The article you linked critiques his knowledge of evolution. This video is about actual creation. The start. How a living molecule was formed from random chemicals swirling around in an uncontrolled environment. In other words "CHEMISTRY" which IS his field of expertise. Do me a favor and watch the damn thing. Process the sheer numbers and scenarios and improbability of the number of things needed to happen in sequence to even get a synthetic molecule to be formed much less a living one or go right back to square one and start all over with no notes and the equivalence of being zapped with a mind erase ray gun.
Yeah, but that can happen...ok.
That's the point. No is claiming they have the answers and calls of scientists "lying" about that is complete BS. No one claims to know, no one is lying, lots of Qs left to answer. There's a number of variations on the basic model as how it happened, and that's all we have at the moment. All science starts with question, then seeks to find evidence to answer the Q. So far, those are best hypothesis that exists and new aspects being learned all the time.
The End.
Excluding the problems with empiricism for a moment and the consequent problems with finding evidence for something that happened billions of years ago. "Belief" and "faith" are the stuff of religion. And since only the particular processes of abiogenesis not abiogenesis itself can be falsified...it doesn't sound like science but a belief system.
Not sure where the lying part comes in? I dont think I accused anyone of lying.
Again, did you actually watch the video or are you critiquing it without doing so? His claims about lying is about actual articles published in major scientific journals about "origin of life" theories. Your right about hypothesis and a question, but after that it is proving the hypothesis. He explains with science on how unproven and faulty those hypotheses are with real science and chemistry. Your right it is not his field, his field is Chemistry which he knows a lot about which he shows in detail with chemistry how impossible this scenario is.
He says there are no major developments in the theory 60+ years. The fact that no one has ever made a molecule in a controlled environment much less an uncontrolled one. Sure, guys come up with new theories, but he explains that it is the same turd in a different wrapper with nothing new being explained and the same unexplained things that shut this theory down purposely ignored and left out in their research papers.
The article you linked critiques his knowledge of evolution. This video is about actual creation. The start. How a living molecule was formed from random chemicals swirling around in an uncontrolled environment. In other words "CHEMISTRY" which IS his field of expertise. Do me a favor and watch the damn thing. Process the sheer numbers and scenarios and improbability of the number of things needed to happen in sequence to even get a synthetic molecule to be formed much less a living one or go right back to square one and start all over with no notes and the equivalence of being zapped with a mind erase ray gun.
Yeah, but that can happen...ok.
Again, you're out of your lane and so is he. He's an organic chemist, not a bio chemist, evolutionary biologist, etc. and article I supplied explains that as well as various points he's wrong. Nothing he said was in his lane, nadda. He's obviously a very smart man, and excellent at baffling with BS. His entire talk comes down to "it's so crazy complicated it could not have happened randomly cuz I can't figure it out" and that's it. 58 minutes of my life I can't get back. He added not a single point that alters anything at all. He throws out all manner of terminology to sound woke, most of which is completely irrelevant to the topic. Sounds like an organic chemist rambling on about his understandings of the topic, and that's exactly what you're getting in that vid. Babbling nonsense. No notes? WTF?
Only statement he makes that's accurate is "no one know how that happened" Guess what, no one is claiming they know.
Cognitive dissonance is a real mother f-er.
A secret, ok. Does it tell why you and aliens exist...what our purpose is?
Yes it does, to my satisfaction.
I am absolutely positive that arguing ("debating" if you prefer) with a True Believer in any area of philosophy on the internet would be a completely pointless waste of my time.
I celebrate your faith and wish you well as it guides your life. I understand your very common desire to argue your point of view in trying to convince others that it's valid, but I'm really not interested in that discussion.
.
Outlander Systems
05-16-19, 12:08
How is any of this back-and-forth relevant to the Pascagoula Incident?
Excluding the problems with empiricism for a moment and the consequent problems with finding evidence for something that happened billions of years ago. "Belief" and "faith" are the stuff of religion. And since only the particular processes of abiogenesis not abiogenesis itself can be falsified...it doesn't sound like science but a belief system.
I don't follow? What's a belief system? It's "believed" due to what's in front of us and the available evidence that life evolved as it did (source supplied as to summary of latest) and how it got started in unknown. That's it. Some hypothesis as to how that may have occurred have been put forth, varying over time as better understanding evolves. That's it.
What hypothesis on the origins are being ignored you feel we should pay more attention to?
"It's super complex and I can't fathom how it could happen without a higher power intervening" works for you, fine with me. Per prior comments, I'm agnostic on that one, just as willing the believe, if not more so, that some extraterrestrial beings seeded the planet with life than I am any higher powers/God(s). Your mileage may differ.
No one claims to have the answers to the origins from a scientific POV, hence it's a moot discussion ultimately. We all agree, we don't know right?
Not sure where the lying part comes in? I dont think I accused anyone of lying.
In reference to others comments that scientists are lying about the topic, and derp derp says as much in the vid posted.
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 12:21
Again, you're out of your lane and so is he. He's an organic chemist, not a bio chemist, evolutionary biologist, etc. and article I supplied explains that as well as various points he's wrong. Nothing he said was in his lane, nadda. He's obviously a very smart man, and excellent at baffling with BS. His entire talk comes down to "it's so crazy complicated it could not have happened randomly cuz I can't figure it out" and that's it. 58 minutes of my life I can't get back. He added not a single point that alters anything at all. He throws out all manner of terminology to sound woke, most of which is completely irrelevant to the topic. Sounds like an organic chemist rambling on about his understandings of the topic, and that's exactly what you're getting in that vid. Babbling nonsense. No notes? WTF?
Only statement he makes that's accurate is "no one know how that happened" Guess what, no one is claiming they know.
Cognitive dissonance is a real mother f-er.
So you are implying that you are in the lane then? It doesn't matter what kind of chemist he is. He understands what it takes for the process to be done. He explains it in detail how complicated it is. He never says it's so crazy complicated, it could not have happened randomly cuz I can't figure it out". He shows how crazy complicated it is in a pure environment, much less an unpure, undirected, chaotic one, and then reiterates over and over that NO one can figure it out and is nowhere close on doing so. He explains components of living cells and how complex that is. He shows examples of complete garbage published in the Science journal of so called experts that are actually lying and show why they are lying. His intent was never to alter anything, only to expose the incomplete mess of a theory it is.
The no notes comment is equivalent to my mind erase comment ind is valid if you get the point he is trying to make. When scientists experiment and it fails, they get to go back at it with notes and try again in a different manner using those notes to improve success. Stupid random chemicals swirling around randomly don't have that luxury, increasing the likelihood of it never happening. Geez, a mathematician or a Vegas odds maker would lose his mind trying to figure the odds on this nonsense.
What is babbling nonsense is the irresponsible theorists that leave all the important things mentioned in the video out of their research that goes unchecked and says "we're good to go on this". That is babbling nonsense and totally irresponsible as far as science goes.
So you are implying that you are in the lane then? It doesn't matter what kind of chemist he is.
Yes, yes it does. The vid is complete rubbish and adds exactly zero to the topic. The rest is you repeating yourself. I'm done here
Have a good one.
Adrenaline_6
05-16-19, 12:41
Yes, yes it does. The vid is complete rubbish and adds exactly zero to the topic. The rest is you repeating yourself. I'm done here
Have a good one.
When someone says something is rubbish, I expect a detailed explanation of why it is. Maybe at least where he is steering us wrong. "Cuz he's not an expert in the field" to me is a cop out. Sorry. Make no mistake, I have no angst towards you Will, I actually think your a good guy and we share the like for knives. I just thing this theory is more of a religion and belief than a scientific theory due to how incomplete it actually is. You have a good one yourself. Peace.
It is indisputable that life can and indeed does exist in the harsh vacuum of space. There are bacteria and microbes present on the exterior surface of the ISS. Now, where these organisms came from is not known and is being currently studied and debated. The fact that a form of life can exist in space is not proof that life has or can originate somewhere other than Earth; but it does suggest the possibility of it occurring.
It is also known that microbes can and do mutate (evolve) in space. Given that life can exist in space, I find it incredibly improbable that the only place in the universe it has occurred is right here on Earth.
I don't follow? What's a belief system? It's "believed" due to what's in front of us and the available evidence that life evolved as it did (source supplied as to summary of latest) and how it got started in unknown. That's it. Some hypothesis as to how that may have occurred have been put forth, varying over time as better understanding evolves. That's it.
What hypothesis on the origins are being ignored you feel we should pay more attention to?
"It's super complex and I can't fathom how it could happen without a higher power intervening" works for you, fine with me. Per prior comments, I'm agnostic on that one, just as willing the believe, if not more so, that some extraterrestrial beings seeded the planet with life than I am any higher powers/God(s). Your mileage may differ.
No one claims to have the answers to the origins from a scientific POV, hence it's a moot discussion ultimately. We all agree, we don't know right?
In reference to others comments that scientists are lying about the topic, and derp derp says as much in the vid posted.
What I'm getting at is that "scientists" don't interpret bare facts (if they are facts) in a vacuum. They like every other human being start with assumptions (presuppositions). The atheistic scientist starts with the assumption that nature is all that is (materialism/naturalism). I absolutely guarantee you that a considerable amounts of scientists have this assumption. Right from the get go they exclude God, based on proof? Of course not, they assume it. Didn't you yourself say that God can't be disproved? So they start with an irrational assumption, there is no God. Why is it irrational, because you would have to be omniscient and omnipresent to know that there is no God. So there is an immediate built in bias. They are human and in my view fallen in every part of their being, so their story telling is just that stories. There are only two possibilities as to how life came about, un-thinking matter and energy did it through an unknowable process or God did it. It's forever unknowable because by their own standards the original conditions billions of years ago is unknowable, they can guess, but that's as good as it gets...they will never be able to observe it or test it. So they are left with stories. They will never willing falsify abiogenisis simply because the alternative is God. Earlier scientists, Issac Newton a Christian, had zero problems with the compatibly of science with theology, and guys like him were real geniuses. Since Darwin, atheism has taken hold in scientific field, so that creation scientists with PhD's are scorned by the folks at Scientific America, why? because we can't have infidel theists importing their alternative assumptions and interpretations into real, atheistic science.
As concerns probabilities even some secular scientists admit that the chances of abiogenisis being true are stupendously astronomically low...they just believe it by faith. I called it a belief system like religion because assuming naturalism is just that a belief or faith.
From a purely objective standpoint the existence of God can be neither disproven or proven.
The atheistic scientists you refer to pretty much have to go with the assumption that there is no god. To do otherwise would be making an assumption that cannot be verified.
I will say that I think it's possible that the Roswell crash was a prototype of the Horten brothers' stealth fighter.
1. Right after World War II
2. German tech and scientists imported to US
3. Shape of Horten brothers stealth fighter is close to descriptions of both Roswell UFO and Kenneth Arnold UFO's.
4. Still top secret because the technology is still classified (still relevant to modern stealth aircraft).
why wouldn't they just fly the original that was brought over here in Operation Paperclip. Its still in some hangar outside Washington DC. I saw a National Geographic special called Hitler's Stealth Fighter, and Northrop Grumman built a scale model and put it up to there stealth radar post and it actually had a lot of stealth properties. Chain Home would not have seen it coming.
Walter and Reimar stated in an interview in the late 80's - early 90's that they thought the whole Roswell incident was a prototype based on german designs.
Others aviation experts claim the Roswell crash was a modified Vought V-173 (Flying Pancake) fitted with internal General Electric K-31's- similar to the Bell P-59.
From a purely objective standpoint the existence of God can be neither disproven or proven.
I can prove the existence of God!
why wouldn't they just fly the original that was brought over here in Operation Paperclip. Its still in some hangar outside Washington DC. I saw a National Geographic special called Hitler's Stealth Fighter, and Northrop Grumman built a scale model and put it up to there stealth radar post and it actually had a lot of stealth properties. Chain Home would not have seen it coming.
Walter and Reimar stated in an interview in the late 80's - early 90's that they thought the whole Roswell incident was a prototype based on german designs.
Others aviation experts claim the Roswell crash was a modified Vought V-173 (Flying Pancake) fitted with internal General Electric K-31's- similar to the Bell P-59.
Occam's Razor strikes again.
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 08:55
why wouldn't they just fly the original that was brought over here in Operation Paperclip. .
I don't know. Probably only the ones involved know.
Outlander Systems
05-17-19, 09:12
http://www.openminds.tv/wp-content/uploads/kenneth-arnold-horten.jpg
why wouldn't they just fly the original that was brought over here in Operation Paperclip.
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 09:14
http://www.openminds.tv/wp-content/uploads/kenneth-arnold-horten.jpg
Thanks for posting that. A picture really is worth 1,000 words. So, what do you think? More than plausible?
Thanks for posting that. A picture really is worth 1,000 words. So, what do you think? More than plausible?
Sure, but there's additional issues, such as that was far from silent, other shapes regularly reported by pilots on both sides, and while much faster then aircraft of the day, could not do things performance wise anywhere near what was seen then and seen now. For me, does not cover the explanation adequately. Finally, it was and is regularly reported there are fleets of them, and the Germans didn't have fleets of those flying around. As usual, may have been exactly what it was in some events/reports, as well as weather balloons, etc, but does explain all of them, be it WWII or today.
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 09:46
Sure, but there's additional issues, such as that was far from silent, other shapes regularly reported by pilots on both sides, and while much faster then aircraft of the day, could not do things performance wise anywhere near what was seen then and seen now. For me, does not cover the explanation adequately. Finally, it was and is regularly reported there are fleets of them, and the Germans didn't have fleets of those flying around. As usual, may have been exactly what it was in some events/reports, as well as weather balloons, etc, but does explain all of them, be it WWII or today.
Well, no one is saying that all UFO sightings are government test flights. I only claimed that the Kenneth Arnold UFO and the Roswell crash were the Horten stealth fighter.
Outlander Systems
05-17-19, 09:55
This.
...and the Germans didn't have fleets of those flying around. As usual, may have been exactly what it was in some events/reports, as well as weather balloons, etc, but does explain all of them, be it WWII or today.
Absolutely. But there's a rabbit hole so deep as to be mind-boggling.
Thanks for posting that. A picture really is worth 1,000 words. So, what do you think? More than plausible?
This.
Absolutely. But there's a rabbit hole so deep as to be mind-boggling.
One must keep an open mind, not so open their brain falls out. No doubt some modern UFO sightings were likely The Lockheed F-117 and such. Personally, I look to the objects behavior vs it's shape and such before attempting to make any conclusions one way or another. What we know as fact is: there's something in our airspace that can't be explained by any the "usual suspects" that is either (1) us, or (2) not us.
I do not think vertually anyone now denies it's #1 or #2. That is, dismissed as swamp gas, weather balloons, etc.
As the doc points out, Occam's Razor would suggest it's #1
However, if #1, that brings up a whole bunch of issues to discuss and explore, and the SME's who have seen them chased them, etc, conclude it's not us.
The most skeptical person out there, once they know multiple radar sightings by f18s, visual sightings by multiple pilots who are SMEs, with concurrent radar tracking by the most advanced systems on the planet via the Nimitz, can only conclude it's #1 or #2.
Thus, it's our tech so advanced we have learned to defy all the known performance of anything even remotely produced in the past, defying known laws of physics, and liquefying anything alive in the object, or, it's not us.
I tend to lean toward #2 as once Occam's Razor is applied at least taking some variables into account, I'm unable to come up with another answer to it.
I admit some personal expectation bias :cool:
Well, no one is saying that all UFO sightings are government test flights. I only claimed that the Kenneth Arnold UFO and the Roswell crash were the Horten stealth fighter.
I'm not claiming you claimed it! Just adding the additional layer of info to the discussion.
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 10:23
Two things:
1. Trump's space force
2. The US Navy taking reports seriously.
These are new cards on the table. Somebody up high is whispering in important ears that this isn't just everybody's imagination.
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 10:24
I'm not claiming you claimed it! Just adding the additional layer of info to the discussion.
Okay, sorry. I inferred from your post that you maybe thought I had a tendency to debunk all reports.
Adrenaline_6
05-17-19, 12:17
The only thing I have a hard time with is the fact that not only is this nationwide, this is worldwide and has been happening forever. It's like Bigfoot (not quite, but you get my point), always enough to keep you thinking but never enough evidence to squash all doubt. I have serious doubts humans worldwide couldn't get a hold of this said evidence all this time. Humans as a whole can't keep secrets this long - they just can't, especially when some of them don't really want to and want to expose it. Only special inclusive groups like governments really keep secrets. The chances that every shred of evidence that has ever been, has been gobbled up by a secret government organization before made too public to deny is highly unlikely, unless already organized and known about by said government.
The only thing I have a hard time with is the fact that not only is this nationwide, this is worldwide and has been happening forever. It's like Bigfoot (not quite, but you get my point), always enough to keep you thinking but never enough evidence to squash all doubt. I have serious doubts humans worldwide couldn't get a hold of this said evidence all this time. Humans as a whole can't keep secrets this long - they just can't, especially when some of them don't really want to and want to expose it. Only special inclusive groups like governments really keep secrets. The chances that every shred of evidence that has ever been, has been gobbled up by a secret government organization before made too public to deny is highly unlikely, unless already organized and known about by said government.
I'm kind of amused that you're trying to bolster credibility for alien-piloted UFO's by comparing them to Bigfoot.
..
I'm kind of amused that you're trying to bolster credibility for alien-piloted UFO's by comparing them to Bigfoot.
..
I thought he as using BF as an example to discredit, vs bolster, UFO credibility as I read it. Either way, not a great analogy. For myself, I tend to think i there was anything to BF, that would have been discovered by now, and have closed the proverbial books on that one. BF, Loch Ness monster, etc, all closed cases to me. I don't tend to put UFO's in the "conspiracy theory" category at this point, but of the major conspiracy theory topics, UFO's are the only one I have kept an open book to.
I thought he as using BF as an example to discredit, vs bolster, UFO credibility as I read it. Either way, not a great analogy. For myself, I tend to think i there was anything to BF, that would have been discovered by now, and have closed the proverbial books on that one. BF, Loch Ness monster, etc, all closed cases to me. I don't tend to put UFO's in the "conspiracy theory" category at this point, but of the major conspiracy theory topics, UFO's are the only one I have kept an open book to.
Exactly the way I feel about the UFO concept.
Perhaps I misread Adrenaline's intent with his post. I do put UFO's and Bigfoot in the same category.
Having been to an actual BigFoot convention to see what it’s all about those people are in fact loony
Anything UFO related passes far higher levels of scrutiny imo.
That said I’m more inclined to think it’s our own stuff rather than belonging to a race of advanced extraterrestrials. There’s nothing stopping them from setting down on the middle of say, the Super Bowl for example.
Plus, I’d like to believe the USS Hillenkoeter is real. But then again our Gov sucks at keeping secrets so idk.
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Exactly the way I feel about the UFO concept.
Perhaps I misread Adrenaline's intent with his post. I do put UFO's and Bigfoot in the same category.
Would you conclude it's our tech? That's the only one of two plausible answers I'm aware of to explain everything clearly not weather balloons, etc.
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 14:03
I thought they had discovered who Bigfoot is? He's a guy named Harry Wildman. :jester:
(Sorry couldn't resist). :lol:
Adrenaline_6
05-17-19, 15:52
Exactly the way I feel about the UFO concept.
Perhaps I misread Adrenaline's intent with his post. I do put UFO's and Bigfoot in the same category.
This would be correct. We are in the same mindset. Bigfoot is not the greatest analogy because of a lot of reasons, which I thought putting that very comment in parentheses would help, but I guess not. Regardless of the analogy, my explanation of why should have explained it anyway. We are in agreement.
Would you conclude it's our tech? That's the only one of two plausible answers I'm aware of to explain everything clearly not weather balloons, etc.
I must conclude that these "sightings" are terrestrial technology until some solid evidence shows up that indicates that an expanded interpretation of the Principle of Parsimony is indicated.
I must conclude that these "sightings" are terrestrial technology until some solid evidence shows up that indicates that an expanded interpretation of the Principle of Parsimony is indicated.
I can't say that's an unreasonable position to take on the matter.
BuzzinSATX
05-17-19, 17:44
Having been to an actual BigFoot convention to see what it’s all about those people are in fact loony
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Not everyone who claims to have seen, or follows the Bigfoot phenomenon, are loony, and most don’t go to the Bigfoot conventions.
And as a poi t of comparison, have you been to a UFO conference and observed that crowd?
No doubt, there are folks who are ‘entertaining’, but really no different than your typical late night shopping at Walmart or the State Fair...LOL!
Doc Safari
05-17-19, 17:49
For Bigfoot, look up David Paulides. He has some really intense insight.
The only thing I have a hard time with is the fact that not only is this nationwide, this is worldwide and has been happening forever. It's like Bigfoot (not quite, but you get my point), always enough to keep you thinking but never enough evidence to squash all doubt. I have serious doubts humans worldwide couldn't get a hold of this said evidence all this time. Humans as a whole can't keep secrets this long - they just can't, especially when some of them don't really want to and want to expose it. Only special inclusive groups like governments really keep secrets. The chances that every shred of evidence that has ever been, has been gobbled up by a secret government organization before made too public to deny is highly unlikely, unless already organized and known about by said government.
That's how conspiracies work!
Look at the Apollo 11 moon landing, a lot of people think it was a hoax? Was it? No, because thousands of people were involved and not one came forward and admitted it was.
JFK assassination: Why is it a conspiracy? Because only a handful of people were in the know and the suspect was shot and killed.
DB Cooper: Same thing, enough info to keep you and me interested but the actual witnesses have never been identified and only a few bills were recovered 10 years later.
9/11- Is it a conspiracy? No, 19 jihadist flew airplanes into the WTC, after the dust settled, there were millions of "specialist" that knew everything about properties of steel and jet fuel and structural engineering claiming it couldn't happen. What they never accounted for was a aluminum object the size of a Boeing 757 hitting the buildings at 450MPH and the fire getting hotter and acting like a blast furnace inhaling all the available oxygen increasing the temperature.
Area 51: People love Area 51 because of its secrecy. Because we don't know what happens there, we can always claim "we heard" and say whatever we want. Aliens autopsies, UFO's etc.
Half the story equals conspiracy.
A handful of eye witnesses with different testimonies equals conspiracy.
Not knowing the full facts equals conspiracy.
But its all designed to keep us interested.
BuzzinSATX
05-17-19, 18:08
The only thing I have a hard time with is the fact that not only is this nationwide, this is worldwide and has been happening forever. It's like Bigfoot (not quite, but you get my point), always enough to keep you thinking but never enough evidence to squash all doubt. I have serious doubts humans worldwide couldn't get a hold of this said evidence all this time. Humans as a whole can't keep secrets this long - they just can't, especially when some of them don't really want to and want to expose it. Only special inclusive groups like governments really keep secrets. The chances that every shred of evidence that has ever been, has been gobbled up by a secret government organization before made too public to deny is highly unlikely, unless already organized and known about by said government.
I think the Bigfoot-UFO comparison is a good point if I take it that both of these phenomenon occur world wide and have for many years.
As far as documentation or hard evidence, that is certainly puzzling. There are videos of both phenomenon, but all are dismissed as either hoaxes or photo glitches.
I am intrigued by both subjects as well as other paranormal activities that seem to occur with frequency that suggests there is something to it.
Bob Gimlin and Travis Walton have never wavered from their stories, and both have suffered greatly during their lives from sticking to them. I’ve listened to both men speak about their experiences. Neither strikes me as someone looking for notoriety, especially at the time the events occurred.
Not linking BF to UFOs in this post other than they both have lots of eyewitness accounts, (although that is another common theme), just adding fuel to the discussion.
I’ve not seen either UFOs or anything I’d consider a BF, but I work with a guy who has a deep Native American heritage (verified) and when I asked him if he’d heard the stories about native tribes and Sasquatch, he had a bunch of stories, including a personal experience that he said happened to him as a teen in the woods of ME where he grew up. He told me he as sitting in a tree stand deer hunting first thing in the morning when a large, hairy, bipedal creature he said was “way bigger than my 6’3 dad” (My friend is 6’4” today) walked past him 40-45 yards away. He said it turned at the waist mid stride and looked right at him for a step, then continued on its way.
The guy who told me that story is a coworker in the unit I work in. He’s a 50 something retired USAF E8, former First Sergeant. He can be a bull thrower, but he was serious as a heart attack. The story had some details that were striking...and just the way he told me. I believe he saw something.
My favorite line from the Big Foot convention was, “We know for a fact Bigfoot are real since we’ve never found a corpse, and it’s because they bury their dead”.
[emoji52][emoji52][emoji58]
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BuzzinSATX
05-17-19, 18:33
My favorite line from the Big Foot convention was, “We know for a fact Bigfoot are real since we’ve never found a corpse, and it’s because they bury their dead”.
[emoji52][emoji52][emoji58]
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Yes, that’s “out there”.
What conference did you attend? I’ve never been to any, but thought about checking out the Honobia OK conference at some point.
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Yes, that’s “out there”.
What conference did you attend? I’ve never been to any, but thought about checking out the Honobia OK conference at some point.
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http://www.bigfootexpo.com/
I think I went in 2013/14
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BuzzinSATX
05-17-19, 19:29
http://www.bigfootexpo.com/
I think I went in 2013/14
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Are you from that area (around Whitehall, in upstate NY)? Have you listened to the actual account from the local cop (Brian Gosselin) who claims to have seen the creature? He doesn’t sound nuts, and again, he has had a rough time because of his story.
Are you from that area (around Whitehall, in upstate NY)? Have you listened to the actual account from the local cop (Brian Gosselin) who claims to have seen the creature? He doesn’t sound nuts, and again, he has had a rough time because of his story.
Negative. I grew up far west towards Buffalo
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I am intrigued by both subjects as well as other paranormal activities that seem to occur with frequency that suggests there is something to it.
I put the alien abduction crowd in the same category as those who have seen Bigfoot, or have seen UFOs that they ultimately concluded :rolleyes: were alien-piloted vehicles. That anal probes were such a consistent part of the abductee experience is very telling IMHO relative to the mindset of those who are so convinced of their experiences. Clearly these mysteries tap in somewhere to some very...unique...psyches.
BuzzinSATX
05-17-19, 20:30
I put the alien abduction crowd in the same category as those who have seen Bigfoot, or have seen UFOs that they ultimately concluded :rolleyes: were alien-piloted vehicles. That anal probes were such a consistent part of the abductee experience is very telling IMHO relative to the mindset of those who are so convinced of their experiences. Clearly these mysteries tap in somewhere to some very...unique...psyches.
Travis Walton, mentioned earlier, never spoke of anal probes. Honestly, his is the only “abduction” story I’ve ever heard directly from the “abductee”.
My main interest in UFO’s are the basic sightings and videos. Ever heard Les Stroud’s story?
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MountainRaven
05-17-19, 21:18
I must conclude that these "sightings" are terrestrial technology until some solid evidence shows up that indicates that an expanded interpretation of the Principle of Parsimony is indicated.
I think, depending on the nature of the phenomenon in question, that it's equally likely that sightings could be naturally-occurring phenomena, too.
I think, depending on the nature of the phenomenon in question, that it's equally likely that sightings could be naturally-occurring phenomena, too.
No doubt true.
I agree with the combination approach. There is ample evidence to support that.
A good read on the topic is Jacques Vallee “Passport to Mangonia.”
As for the visitors from other planets idea, it is just too difficult to solve the life support, propulsion and speed problems inherent in interplanetary travel.
For Humans... Think what a civilization a billion years older than ours might be able to achieve. Passport to Magonia is an old book and even Vallee has modified his thinking. There is much more information to chew on now. And the seeming limitations imposed by the material physics of light speed is no longer considered insurmountable in theory. The ability to warp time and space in a small area in front of a craft so that it "surfs" the warp is the current thinking. It is currently beyond our capability to do this, but that doesn't mean that others with a a million, or perhaps a billion years of advancement couldn't do it.
This represents a way of thinking that only our most recent understanding of material and quantum physics could help us to envision. The science community is finally starting to crack out of its limited material physics egg, in part because we are witnessing visitation by, perhaps, multiple alien civilizations.
Personally, I see Earth as an Ant Farm to be observed, and sometimes tweaked.
I put the alien abduction crowd in the same category as those who have seen Bigfoot, or have seen UFOs that they ultimately concluded :rolleyes: were alien-piloted vehicles. That anal probes were such a consistent part of the abductee experience is very telling IMHO relative to the mindset of those who are so convinced of their experiences. Clearly these mysteries tap in somewhere to some very...unique...psyches.
You are poorly informed. To anyone who spends the time to study the phenomena it is clear that intelligently guided craft have been here for a long time. Some of these craft have interacted with humans in various ways. Abductions are less clear to me, but there have been many many well documented situations with multiple, up to thousands (as in Phoenix) of witnesses of flying craft that humans did not and could not build. Craft that we couldn't build in the 40's and cannot build today.
Look up:
Malmstrom AFB in Montana - UFOs disable 10 ICBMs
https://www.foxnews.com/science/aliens-are-monitoring-our-nukes-worry-ex-air-force-officers
https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2017/02/26/mansch-montana-ufo-sighting-still-resonates/98452858/
People should consider the possibility that they are in denial.
This news was broken in the NY Times, WaPo, and Politico December 16 2017 I believe. This is when it was revealed that the Pentagon has a UFO program called AATIP. Here is one of the pilots that reported the encounter. And since then, there have been several others who were also witnesses of the Nimitz encounter that lasted almost a WEEK while as many as 100 UFOs were tracked.
Here's a vid with the first witness that came out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDj9ZZQY2kA
Personally, I see Earth as an Ant Farm to be observed, and sometimes tweaked.
Let's just hope they don't get bored, turn sadistic and pull out a magnifying glass.
You are poorly informed. To anyone who spends the time to study the phenomena it is clear that intelligently guided craft have been here for a long time. Some of these craft have interacted with humans in various ways. Abductions are less clear to me, but there have been many many well documented situations with multiple, up to thousands (as in Phoenix) of witnesses of flying craft that humans did not and could not build. Craft that we couldn't build in the 40's and cannot build today.
Look up:
Malmstrom AFB in Montana - UFOs disable 10 ICBMs
https://www.foxnews.com/science/aliens-are-monitoring-our-nukes-worry-ex-air-force-officers
https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2017/02/26/mansch-montana-ufo-sighting-still-resonates/98452858/
People should consider the possibility that they are in denial.
This news was broken in the NY Times, WaPo, and Politico December 16 2017 I believe. This is when it was revealed that the Pentagon has a UFO program called AATIP. Here is one of the pilots that reported the encounter. And since then, there have been several others who were also witnesses of the Nimitz encounter that lasted almost a WEEK while as many as 100 UFOs were tracked.
Yeah, cool stories bro. Bring me a wrecked flying saucer or its pilot, and I’m there with ya...otherwise it’s just an unidentified flying object and the most logical explanation based on what we can see (as opposed to what we want to see) is terrestrial origin.
Most trial attornies and many cops are increasingly leery of “eyewitness accounts”, and I certainly think that’s an important consideration when the eyewitness is trying to convince us that he/she saw an alien-piloted vehicle. The psychology of “eyewitness account” in areas where the account can be actually proven or disproven is an increasing area of psychological study and has certainly proven itself to be problematic and very interesting.
./
Business_Casual
05-21-19, 11:04
https://www.space.com/why-ufos-interest-the-pentagon.html
Interesting
Yeah, cool stories bro. Bring me a wrecked flying saucer or its pilot, and I’m there with ya...otherwise it’s just an unidentified flying object and the most logical explanation based on what we can see (as opposed to what we want to see) is terrestrial origin.
Most trial attornies and many cops are increasingly leery of “eyewitness accounts”, and I certainly think that’s an important consideration when the eyewitness is trying to convince us that he/she saw an alien-piloted vehicle. The psychology of “eyewitness account” in areas where the account can be actually proven or disproven is an increasing area of psychological study and has certainly proven itself to be problematic and very interesting.
./
Hahaha. The Nimitz encounter (see previous Fravor vid) is not a story...bro. It was recorded by F18 Super Hornet gun cameras, seen by multiple pilots and crews and tracked by the USS Princeton's systems. About 100 UAPs were tracked over a week long period by the latest and most sophisticated systems the Navy has. Senior Chief Kevin Day was the senior man in the operations center on the USS Princeton and has come out as a witness. Several witnesses have come out to confirm, at least those who did not sign a NDA or have retired.
Here is an accurate mini documentary that cover the main incident. The Navy has kept this secrete since 2004.
EDIT: Looks like they are releasing a new one in a few days, here is the link;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBgIqJvCbg
Remaining ignorant will probably not be an option within 4-5 years.
Another story just today today 5/22/19: The Pentagon finally admits it investigates UFOs
https://nypost.com/2019/05/22/the-pentagon-finally-admits-it-investigates-ufos/
More and more about these incidents are beginning to come out...I think the Pentagon is finding it harder and harder to keep the cover up going. Why? Well, 1. It is enormously expensive to keep secrets when 100's if not thousands of military personnel have been exposed in one way or another. 2. The denial/cover up has been eroding the trust and confidence of the public in the Military for a very long time, and its time for a change. 3. Incursions have been INCREASING at military installations But they aren't going to come out and announce it directly. So we get the long disclosure, a little at a time.
Recently from Politico:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/23/us-navy-guidelines-reporting-ufos-1375290
Defense News Weekly:
https://www.navytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2019/04/25/aliens-ahoy-navy-developing-guidelines-on-reporting-ufo-sightings/
Christopher Mellon former Deputy Assistant Defense Secretary for intelligence with Tucker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL5pXS-kMNM&fbclid=IwAR18CPsKUgZ1fnEe95HuGdYIRiQxWqEeBlNbGpsAPzlw1AZ7AqHNx3DhI1Y
Mellon article, The Hill:
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/444422-friend-foe-or-unknown-force-flying-overhead-congress-should-find
MountainRaven
05-22-19, 19:31
Why would it be a shocking revelation that the Pentagon is studying UFOs? They’ve done so for decades and surely they’d want to better understand what, if anything, is behind these phenomena: Whether it’s a foreign state’s top secret weapon systems, naturally occurring phenomena, or our celestial neighbors dropping by to check things out.
And if these UFOs are the result of some sort of DARPA program, they want cover programs to make foreign intelligence agencies look the other way.
Why would it be a shocking revelation that the Pentagon is studying UFOs? They’ve done so for decades and surely they’d want to better understand what, if anything, is behind these phenomena: Whether it’s a foreign state’s top secret weapon systems, naturally occurring phenomena, or our celestial neighbors dropping by to check things out.
And if these UFOs are the result of some sort of DARPA program, they want cover programs to make foreign intelligence agencies look the other way.
Yes, it is the first time they have admitted it since Project Blue Book and the bogus Condon Report. In fact, they've denied it for many years. Of course they've lied to us. The question is; Why did they admit it now? Along with videos, back in 2017.
Naturally occurring phenomena? Really, you believe that. You mean we've been fooled by swamp gas since 1947? Get a grip. Numbers of F18 pilots, advanced radar, cameras, and thermal all mistook swap gas, venus, lightening, or clouds for solid craft? These people are not rubes, they drive and run sophisticated equipment DESIGNED to pick out the difference.
BTW There is no doubt the small AATIP program is not the only program. I think they are using it as a way to "come clean" without actually coming clean about the depth of the Government's involvement. They are trying to reboot the relationship with the public about the phenomena. That's my take.
What you are implying does not hold up to even nominal scrutiny. 1. The notion that the Pentagon has the technology to field craft that can do what these do is ridiculous. 2. If its a foreign state, how did they get that advanced? We spend billions on intelligence and they just plain fooled us, is that what you are saying? It's kind of a ridiculous notion. This kind of tech would take an investment of hundreds of billions with the best scientists in the world over decades. Some how we missed that?
Let me ask; if another state is that advanced, why would they fly there most advanced craft in large numbers over several days in the vicinity and within radar range of an aircraft carrier group on maneuvers? Did they just make a mistake?
Are you saying that another Country is so brilliant that they build craft that defy everything we know about aeronautics, energy production, and physics, but then they accidentally got caught by our obvious radar? And when we confronted them they didn't leave? This happened 14 years ago in 2004, so they were particularly capable even back then. We didn't even have smart phones...
Another thing, if we are trying to mis-direct other country's intelligence groups, why did we wait from 2004 until now to release this information?
I don't find any of your arguments compelling, and I don't think you know anything about the Nimitz encounter. Including the fact that the tic-tac UFO knew in advance where the F18 CAP was and was there when the pilot arrived. That is astonishing.
Hahaha. The Nimitz encounter (see previous Fravor vid) is not a story...bro. It was recorded by F18 Super Hornet gun cameras, seen by multiple pilots and crews and tracked by the USS Princeton's systems. About 100 UAPs were tracked over a week long period by the latest and most sophisticated systems the Navy has. Senior Chief Kevin Day was the senior man in the operations center on the USS Princeton and has come out as a witness. Several witnesses have come out to confirm, at least those who did not sign a NDA or have retired.
Here is an accurate mini documentary that cover the main incident. The Navy has kept this secrete since 2004.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur9F4iYK-SE
Remaining ignorant will probably not be an option within 4-5 years.
They said that 50 years ago too. So...the F18 thing is a cool story...bro. But, where's the beef? Where's the Muon hyperdrive signature? A gun camera image of a little green guy waving out the window? The remnants of a crashed UFO with pieces of Unobtanium all over the desert? Oh...that's right...there isn't any proof. Just a bunch of cool stories. Bro.
https://contemplativemammoth.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/einstein.jpg?w=640
The Hillenkoeter is real fam
Also, if I was .gov I’d 100% in the public be like yea.... we’re investigating UFOs ((blink blink)), nah it’s definitely not our tech ((blink blink)).... foreign governments maybe ((blink blink)).
That disinformation campaign though.
Meanwhile just to further the misdirection
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190523/1f79947e0893e0eb03314c6c94ead4c0.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MountainRaven
05-22-19, 23:51
Yes, it is the first time they have admitted it since Project Blue Book and the bogus Condon Report. In fact, they've denied it for many years. Of course they've lied to us. The question is; Why did they admit it now? Along with videos, back in 2017.
You're shocked that the government, especially the military, lied to you?
Naturally occurring phenomena? Really, you believe that. You mean we've been fooled by swamp gas since 1947? Get a grip. Numbers of F18 pilots, advanced radar, cameras, and thermal all mistook swap gas, venus, lightening, or clouds for solid craft? These people are not rubes, they drive and run sophisticated equipment DESIGNED to pick out the difference.
I never said it was swamp gas. I never said it was even mundane natural phenomena. But if you think we know even a significant fraction of what there is to know about our planet, let alone the universe, I've got a bridge to sell you. Please send cash only, and small bills are preferred.
What you are implying does not hold up to even nominal scrutiny. 1. The notion that the Pentagon has the technology to field craft that can do what these do is ridiculous. 2. If its a foreign state, how did they get that advanced? We spend billions on intelligence and they just plain fooled us, is that what you are saying? It's kind of a ridiculous notion. This kind of tech would take an investment of hundreds of billions with the best scientists in the world over decades. Some how we missed that?
None of this is as ridiculous as the notion that these are alien spacecraft. Or angels and demons. Or whatever other improbable phenomena your overactive imagination has dreamt up.
Let me ask; if another state is that advanced, why would they fly there most advanced craft in large numbers over several days in the vicinity and within radar range of an aircraft carrier group on maneuvers? Did they just make a mistake?
Are you saying that another Country is so brilliant that they build craft that defy everything we know about aeronautics, energy production, and physics, but then they accidentally got caught by our obvious radar? And when we confronted them they didn't leave? This happened 14 years ago in 2004, so they were particularly capable even back then. We didn't even have smart phones...
You obviously never heard of, "Sputnik." Orbiting the earth wasn't feasible until suddenly it was. Splitting the atom wasn't feasible until suddenly it was. &c.
If you think other countries can't come up with some pretty amazing things, if you think that our own government isn't working on mind-blowing shit, I'd say you're pretty naïve.
I don't find any of your arguments compelling, and I don't think you know anything about the Nimitz encounter. Including the fact that the tic-tac UFO knew in advance where the F18 CAP was and was there when the pilot arrived. That is astonishing.
I don't care if you find it compelling or not.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. And you ain't got none.
Doc Safari
05-23-19, 08:58
Why would it be a shocking revelation that the Pentagon is studying UFOs?
The shocking revelation is that they admit to it.
All of a sudden there is a mainstream credibility to the subject and it's not just fodder for Coast To Coast AM.
They said that 50 years ago too. So...the F18 thing is a cool story...bro. But, where's the beef? Where's the Muon hyperdrive signature? A gun camera image of a little green guy waving out the window? The remnants of a crashed UFO with pieces of Unobtanium all over the desert? Oh...that's right...there isn't any proof. Just a bunch of cool stories. Bro.
What exists now is well beyond stories, and I think you know it. I think you agree that there's more than enough evidence that there's something in our airspace that's the U in UFO, but it's far beyond simple stories and such. You have said before you think it's of terrestrial origins, and I while I'm agnostic still, can't blame you or anyone for that conclusion. But, there's no longer denying something unexplained is in our airspace, that's not weather balloons, geese, nor swamp gas, etc. Considering their well established capabilities confirmed by the most sophisticated radar etc we have, SME accounts, etc, I find it very difficult to conclude it's our tech, and so the SME's involved. But, without the evidence needed as you outline, Occam's Razor applies. Me, I'm still hoping they read this, get my ass off this planet.
Hahaha. The Nimitz encounter (see previous Fravor vid) is not a story...bro. It was recorded by F18 Super Hornet gun cameras, seen by multiple pilots and crews and tracked by the USS Princeton's systems. About 100 UAPs were tracked over a week long period by the latest and most sophisticated systems the Navy has. Senior Chief Kevin Day was the senior man in the operations center on the USS Princeton and has come out as a witness. Several witnesses have come out to confirm, at least those who did not sign a NDA or have retired.
Here is an accurate mini documentary that cover the main incident. The Navy has kept this secrete since 2004.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur9F4iYK-SE
Remaining ignorant will probably not be an option within 4-5 years.
The story itself is amazing of course, but I found the production and the voice used cheesy and devalued the event itself. If I had not already known of the event, that vid would not real really help.
The shocking revelation is that they admit to it.
All of a sudden there is a mainstream credibility to the subject and it's not just fodder for Coast To Coast AM.
I suspect they simply realized the level of evidence that exists, and the public is aware of, really no benefit to them to deny what everyone knows: they're very interested in UFOs and always have been. What they know they're not telling us is another matter of course, but there's not a major government on the planet that has not been researching UFO phenomena for obvious reasons. They have simply reasoned there's really no value left in trying to prevent every solider etc from taking about it and stonewall level of denial in their obvious interests. I'd sure as hell hope the gubment was trying to figure out what the hell those are!
Doc Safari
05-23-19, 10:01
I suspect they simply realized the level of evidence that exists, and the public is aware of, really no benefit to them to deny what everyone knows: they're very interested in UFOs and always have been. What they know they're not telling us is another matter of course, but there's not a major government on the planet that has not been researching UFO phenomena for obvious reasons. They have simply reasoned there's really no value left in trying to prevent every solider etc from taking about it and stonewall level of denial in their obvious interests. I'd sure as hell hope the gubment was trying to figure out what the hell those are!
What I really want to see is an end to the persecution of pilots and other high profile experiencers who endanger their careers by truthfully reporting their sightings.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. And you ain't got none.
I think the evidence exists to conclude/admit there's something in our airspace that's not explainable using the usual suspects. UFOs are legit, but the U in UFO still applies. I posit that leaves us with one of two possibilities: (1) It's us/human tech or (2) it's not us.
Considering the capabilities of the UFOs, either option is just mind boggling. I'm still torn as to which of the two, and more I see more I lean toward #2 as have the SME's who have been directly involved.
What I really want to see is an end to the persecution of pilots and other high profile experiencers who endanger their careers by truthfully reporting their sightings.
Were those F18 pilots black listed for coming forward? I'm not sure, but agreed, it used to be a career ender to even mention it, and that BS needs to stop. It's obvious at least it's not an automatic loss of job or rank now, so progress being made.
The Hillenkoeter is real fam
Also, if I was .gov I’d 100% in the public be like yea.... we’re investigating UFOs ((blink blink)), nah it’s definitely not our tech ((blink blink)).... foreign governments maybe ((blink blink)).
That disinformation campaign though.
Meanwhile just to further the misdirection
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190523/1f79947e0893e0eb03314c6c94ead4c0.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not this time. You just haven't spent the time to look into it. I have. Watch the documentary, it has about 65% of the story in it. As I said, you can keep fooling yourself as long as you want to.
Doc Safari
05-23-19, 11:36
Do any of you keep up with Tom DeLonge's UFO work?
I know he's part of Blink182, but what's your opinion on his efforts in the UFO community?
Is he a credible spokesman or a fringe case?
I know Dan Aykroyd takes an interest in this subject also, but he's not as public with it lately as far as I know.
They said that 50 years ago too. So...the F18 thing is a cool story...bro. But, where's the beef? Where's the Muon hyperdrive signature? A gun camera image of a little green guy waving out the window? The remnants of a crashed UFO with pieces of Unobtanium all over the desert? Oh...that's right...there isn't any proof. Just a bunch of cool stories. Bro.
https://contemplativemammoth.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/einstein.jpg?w=640
My teenage daughter could come up with a more mature argument.
Not this time. You just haven't spent the time to look into it. I have. Watch the documentary, it has about 65% of the story in it. As I said, you can keep fooling yourself as long as you want to.
Oh, so you’re an authority on the unknown?
Please enlighten the class then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the evidence exists to conclude/admit there's something in our airspace that's not explainable using the usual suspects. UFOs are legit, but the U in UFO still applies. I posit that leaves us with one of two possibilities: (1) It's us/human tech or (2) it's not.
Considering the capabilities of the UFOs, either option is just mind boggling. I'm still torn as to which of the two, and more I see more I lean toward #2 as have the SME's who have been directly involved.
Most thoughtful response so far WillBrink. I've been lightly following this stuff for almost 50 years. I've been closely following it since December 16, 2017 when the NY Times, Wasington Post, and Politico broke a story with Pentaon connections including gun camera footage. That was a game changer.
There is a crap ton of misinformation (most of it) and a lot of mis-direction (started by the IC) keeping this subject from being taken more seriously. For all those years you saw the ridicule and snickers from the press. THAT HAS CHANGED.
Were those F18 pilots black listed for coming forward? I'm not sure, but agreed, it used to be a career ender to even mention it, and that BS needs to stop. It's obvious at least it's not an automatic loss of job or rank now, so progress being made.
The Navy has made no effort to push back on this at all. And the Pentagon quietly been moving to show that they take the phenomena seriously. The second plane was a female pilot who has acknowledged what happened, but does not want her name and face out.
WillBrink watch the 23 minute documentary it is being updated as new names and more info comes out, it is a little behind, but reasonably up to date. There is a lot more to the incident, but this will give you the big picture.
BTW - This type of thing was happening off the East Coast too. More will be revealed about that in the future I believe.
Here's the link to the current rough documentary Gen 3.
EDIT: Looks like they are releasing a new updated version in a couple days...Here is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBgIqJvCbg
You're shocked that the government, especially the military, lied to you?
I never said it was swamp gas. I never said it was even mundane natural phenomena. But if you think we know even a significant fraction of what there is to know about our planet, let alone the universe, I've got a bridge to sell you. Please send cash only, and small bills are preferred.
None of this is as ridiculous as the notion that these are alien spacecraft. Or angels and demons. Or whatever other improbable phenomena your overactive imagination has dreamt up.
You obviously never heard of, "Sputnik." Orbiting the earth wasn't feasible until suddenly it was. Splitting the atom wasn't feasible until suddenly it was. &c.
If you think other countries can't come up with some pretty amazing things, if you think that our own government isn't working on mind-blowing shit, I'd say you're pretty naïve.
I don't care if you find it compelling or not.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. And you ain't got none.
The Navy seems to think differently.
So what do you propose this is? You put it on me to solve, what is your hypothesis? Are all these personnel just imagining this? Did the radar, just have a bad hair day and display all the objects over a week long period performing the same maneuvers in groups of three on the same heading?
Do you even have any information about this other than what is in your under-active cognitive brain? Try curiosity and inquiry before you shoot your mouth off.
You got one think right, its not "mundane natural phenomena". That's right, we don't know. But you claim you do know, and you imply that the phenomena is NOT intelligently guided. The evidence for decades by sightings, and now by radar and sophisticated sensors is that you are wrong.
Little grey men? Maybe not, but there is something guiding these. You are right we don't know what is going on in the Universe, but you claim, "move along, there's nothing to see here", when very credible people have EVIDENCE.
Whether you like it or not the Nimitz encounter provided EVIDENCE. Radar, visual, and pilot. By many.
All I'm saying is know all the facts before you yell "swap gas".
Oh, so you’re an authority on the unknown?
Please enlighten the class then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is not unknown. Just because YOU don't know anything about this, doesn't mean its unknown. Try curiosity and inquiry to be knowledgeable about the subject instead of ignorance. That's what you would ask of people claiming JP is crap, and PSA is the best.
What I really want to see is an end to the persecution of pilots and other high profile experiencers who endanger their careers by truthfully reporting their sightings.
That is what the Navy and Pentagon are doing. One step at a time.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/23/us-navy-guidelines-reporting-ufos-1375290
https://nypost.com/2019/05/22/the-pentagon-finally-admits-it-investigates-ufos/
Not this time. You just haven't spent the time to look into it. I have. Watch the documentary, it has about 65% of the story in it. As I said, you can keep fooling yourself as long as you want to.
Holy conspiracy theories Batman, vid you posted now gets:
"Video unavailable
This video has been removed by the user"
Hmmmmm...
Most thoughtful response so far WillBrink. I've been lightly following this stuff for almost 50 years. I've been closely following it since December 16, 2017 when the NY Times, Wasington Post, and Politico broke a story with Pentaon connections including gun camera footage. That was a game changer.
There is a crap ton of misinformation (most of it) and a lot of mis-direction (started by the IC) keeping this subject from being taken more seriously. For all those years you saw the ridicule and snickers from the press. THAT HAS CHANGED.
The Navy has made no effort to push back on this at all. And the Pentagon quietly been moving to show that they take the phenomena seriously. The second plane was a female pilot who has acknowledged what happened, but does not want her name and face out.
WillBrink watch the 23 minute documentary it is being updated as new names and more info comes out, it is a little behind, but reasonably up to date. There is a lot more to the incident, but this will give you the big picture.
BTW - This type of thing was happening off the East Coast too. More will be revealed about that in the future I believe.
Here's the link to the current rough documentary Gen 3.
EDIT: Looks like they are releasing a new updated version in a couple days...Here is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBgIqJvCbg
If you have been following the thread, I have said similar and with more details, elsewhere in the thread. Will watch vid. Otherone BTW is now:
Video unavailable
This video has been removed by the user
MountainRaven
05-23-19, 13:51
The Navy seems to think differently.
So what do you propose this is? You put it on me to solve, what is your hypothesis? Are all these personnel just imagining this? Did the radar, just have a bad hair day and display all the objects over a week long period performing the same maneuvers in groups of three on the same heading?
Do you even have any information about this other than what is in your under-active cognitive brain? Try curiosity and inquiry before you shoot your mouth off.
You got one think right, its not "mundane natural phenomena". That's right, we don't know. But you claim you do know, and you imply that the phenomena is NOT intelligently guided. The evidence for decades by sightings, and now by radar and sophisticated sensors is that you are wrong.
Little grey men? Maybe not, but there is something guiding these. You are right we don't know what is going on in the Universe, but you claim, "move along, there's nothing to see here", when very credible people have EVIDENCE.
Whether you like it or not the Nimitz encounter provided EVIDENCE. Radar, visual, and pilot. By many.
All I'm saying is know all the facts before you yell "swap gas".
First, it's, "swamp gas."
Second, I've never said anything of the sort. I think you're getting overly emotionally involved.
I have no idea what these things are.
And if you think you do, you've fooled yourself.
I plan to wait for the science to come back before I make a conclusion. You obviously have decided to substitute feelings for facts.
First, it's, "swamp gas."
.
You don't wanna see what comes up if you google "swap gas" :lol:
Do any of you keep up with Tom DeLonge's UFO work?
I know he's part of Blink182, but what's your opinion on his efforts in the UFO community?
Is he a credible spokesman or a fringe case?
I know Dan Aykroyd takes an interest in this subject also, but he's not as public with it lately as far as I know.
I was waiting to reply to this last.
It is quite amazing what that goofy rock star has accomplished. He didn't just sit on his butt and make UFO claims. He used his fame to open doors directly to the top.
I was skeptical, but then Podesta's (Long time buddies with Hillary, and was Chief of Staff to Obama) hacked emails were made public. And there was Tom DeLonge trading email with Podesta about UFO/UAP and meetings. I think they mentioned some high level Military people too. At this point I was less skeptical. But not convinced he could effectuate anything.
He had some disastrous interviews in the press, and then went silent.
Meanwhile he was working with people in the Gov. and private companies, namely Lockheed Skunkworks continued behind scenes. When Hillary wasn't elected it (you might remember Hillary talking about UFOs now being called UAPs on late night television) threw the plans into the toilet.
His explanation for why he was successful while others were not had the ring of truth, and has not been refuted. He wanted to work on the UFO project in partnership with the Gov. instead of negatively attacking the Gov. It is true that the UFO community attacks the Gov. for their secrecy daily.
Then he did something very interesting. DeLonge asked for help and advisers/partners to help him. That is what the reaching out to Podesta was all about. And this is how he was able to get the connected staff that he has.
So he apparently regrouped and announced TTSA. And who are the leads of TTSA?
Jim Semivan (Ex-CIA long time)
Dr. Hal Puthoff (Physicist with too much background to list)
Steve Justice (Long time Director of Lockheed Skunkworks among other things)
Luis Elizondo (Long time DOD intelligence guy, ran AATIP)
Chris Mellon (Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence under Clinton and Bush. Interesting aside: Comes from the wealthy Mellon family).
Also four other very interesting choices:
Dr. Paul Rapp (Professor of Military and Emergency Medicine at the Uniformed Services University and Director of the Traumatic Injury Research Program)
Dr. Norm Kahn (Currently a consultant on national security for the US Government and 30 year CIA guy)
Dr. Colm Kelleher - Biochemist with a twenty-eight-year research career in cell and molecular biology currently working in senior management in the aerospace sector. From 2008-2011, he served as Deputy Administrator of a US government funded threat assessment program focused on advanced aerospace technology.
Dr. Adele Gilpin - Dr. Adele Gilpin is a scientist with biomedical academic and research experience as well as an active, licensed, attorney. She served on the faculty at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, the University of Maryland School of Medicine, and the Medical College of Pennsylvania. She taught biostatistics, epidemiology, and the design and conduct of clinical trials.
There is a lot more info in each bio. Read here ---> https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com/
--------------------------------------------------------
TTSA are not "lights in the sky" investigators. TTSA is about scientific inquiry, Congressional and Military action, and public awareness. This is not
Dan Ackroyd territory.
These are serious people who put their names on discovering the truth about the phenomena. That is very brave in this environment and in my opinion.
There is so much to the TTSA story and what they've already accomplished. The release of the Nimitz info, the lack of push back by the DOD, the briefing of congressional committees (not public), Navy changing their policies toward UFO reporting, and the announcement that the DOD is, in fact, studying UFOs.
There is a lot more going on but its all leaks.
Two interesting things:
Hal Puthoff is studying reported pieces of ejected UFO material, from all over the world, to see if they can learn more about them. To see if they are unusual, or terrestrial. One so far is reported to be engineered beyond our capability, but they are cautious, don't expect an announcement.
The other, is that they are studying the effects of close encounters on people. DNA and Brains of people who have come in close contact appear to be altered or anomalous, but this study is only in its infancy (3 years) started before TTSA. This helps explain why TTSA has geneticists and medical types too. Dr. Gary Nolan (https://profiles.stanford.edu/garry-nolan) has been part of this research.
Frankly, I would be much happier if they found out that UFOs are swamp gas. This stuff freaks me out. But I cannot close my eyes to it.
There is a lot more info in each bio. Read here ---> https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com/
--------------------------------------------------------
TTSA are not "lights in the sky" investigators. TTSA is about scientific inquiry, Congressional and Military action, and public awareness. This is not
Dan Ackroyd territory.
These are serious people who put their names on discovering the truth about the phenomena. That is very brave in this environment and in my opinion.
Interesting! Will check that out.
If you have been following the thread, I have said similar and with more details, elsewhere in the thread. Will watch vid. Otherone BTW is now:
Video unavailable
This video has been removed by the user
You haven't read all the posts. They are releasing a new one in three days, try clicking on the link you just said didn't work.
If you have been following the thread, I have said similar and with more details, elsewhere in the thread. Will watch vid. Otherone BTW is now:
Video unavailable
This video has been removed by the user
What post number please?
First, it's, "swamp gas."
Second, I've never said anything of the sort. I think you're getting overly emotionally involved.
I have no idea what these things are.
And if you think you do, you've fooled yourself.
I plan to wait for the science to come back before I make a conclusion. You obviously have decided to substitute feelings for facts.
Funny, you claim I'm emotional about it, but you go to the juvenile to point out a typo.
You are using projection as a defense mechanism. I've given facts, you are using emotion. Its kind of embarrassing, I'm presenting the facts as I know them. You have nothing but projection. Sorry but its true.
Outlander Systems
05-23-19, 15:04
Is anyone here familiar with Charles Dellschau, NYMZA, the Sonora Aero Club, Friedrich Wannieck, Carl Reichenbach, Carl Kellner, Walter Rathenau, F. Lewis Clark, or Jakob Sporrenberg?
You haven't read all the posts. They are releasing a new one in three days, try clicking on the link you just said didn't work.
I did, it don't work any more. I responded to it in #219.
Interesting! Will check that out.
WillBrink, how would I find your other posts in this thread? Thanks.
I did, it don't work any more. I responded to it in #219.
Thats weird, you might want to quit M4 forum and refresh. I see it and it works fine. Odd. Here it is again.
Remember new one will be released in 3 days, so they JUST took down the old one. So this will just say that it premiers in three days. You'll have to wait now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBgIqJvCbg
WillBrink, how would I find your other posts in this thread? Thanks.
I have been posting in the thread pretty much since page one as it's a topic of great interest to me. I guess using the advanced search options you can find all posts in a thread putting in the members name, etc. Or, the old fashioned way of starting from the beginning and reading the thread through.
Thats weird, you might want to quit M4 forum and refresh. I see it and it works fine. Odd. Here it is again.
Remember new one will be released in 3 days, so they JUST took down the old one. So this will just say that it premiers in three days. You'll have to wait now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBgIqJvCbg
Actually, I posted it on my FB page, and it was someone else to alerted me to it no longer works. So, was not just me and not M4C. So weird.
Is anyone here familiar with Charles Dellschau, NYMZA, the Sonora Aero Club, Friedrich Wannieck, Carl Reichenbach, Carl Kellner, Walter Rathenau, F. Lewis Clark, or Jakob Sporrenberg?
Yes, I heard of it a few years ago on some podcast, but I never looked into it. Unfortunately, there are so many stories out there, and many lead nowhere so its one I just didn't have time for. Just picked this off the web. Do you have something interesting to say about it? Curious.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/charles-a-a-dellschau-dreams-of-flying-the-amazing-story-of-an-airship-club-that-might-never-have-existed/274170/
Doc Safari
05-23-19, 15:25
Actually, I posted it on my FB page, and it was someone else to alerted me to it no longer works. So, was not just me and not M4C. So weird.
Must be the ET's not wanting the info to get out. :jester:
Not supposed to trust the little grey buggers, ya know.
(But you didn't hear that from me.) :jester:
Must be the ET's not wanting the info to get out. :jester:
Not supposed to trust the little grey buggers, ya know.
(But you didn't hear that from me.) :jester:
Bunch of kents they are.
Actually, I posted it on my FB page, and it was someone else to alerted me to it no longer works. So, was not just me and not M4C. So weird.
Like I said they were in the midst of working on a new one. The one I originally posted was probably in mid-production (different YouTube account) as there were a couple glitches. I probably wasn't supposed to post that one (hidden). They obviously took it down.
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