View Full Version : Hudson bites the dust
Don Quijote
03-18-19, 12:23
Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Hasta la vista, baby: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/03/18/hudson-manufacturing-files-for-bankruptcy/
WickedWillis
03-18-19, 12:37
Super odd thing to be celebrating.
Don Quijote
03-18-19, 12:56
Super odd thing to be celebrating.
Good to know that you think you know my motivations for posting that.
Good to know that you think you know my motivations for posting that.
Then please enlighten us. I agree with Wicked that the closing of a company is not something that is normally celebrated because that usually means that there are people who are out of work.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-18-19, 15:10
Not sure why everyone is so butthurt here...
Hudson ran an incredibly irresponsible campaign to get their weird pistol on the market. Now, because they couldn't run a business to save their lives, the people who lent them millions will likely never see a dime of it back. Maybe everybody that is so sad about this should have bought their fair share of Hudson H9's to keep them afloat?
Hudson - Ego writing checks their bodies couldn't cash.
Not remotely surprised.
$50K assets and $10-50 million in liabilities. It's for sure more than one person or company got hosed.
Not sure why everyone is so butthurt here...
Hudson ran an incredibly irresponsible campaign to get their weird pistol on the market. Now, because they couldn't run a business to save their lives, the people who lent them millions will likely never see a dime of it back. Maybe everybody that is so sad about this should have bought their fair share of Hudson H9's to keep them afloat?
Not butt hurt, but also not into celebrating a company closing its doors and people being out of work. While I have not fired one of their pistols, the reviews that I saw were favorable.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-18-19, 16:05
I think it's a sad situation for the lenders, and very sad for the people who own an H9. For the owners, screw em.
Not too sure I would equate "hasta la vista baby" with celebrating. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
56460
Lets up the level of a$$ hurt here. :p
Eurodriver
03-18-19, 16:42
Lol. Williejc called this years ago and everyone ignored him.
Weird stupid gun companies need to understand weird stupid gun owners that like weird stupid guns are poor and won’t drop the kind of loot Hudson was asking for a pistol.
Don Quijote
03-18-19, 17:14
Then please enlighten us. I agree with Wicked that the closing of a company is not something that is normally celebrated because that usually means that there are people who are out of work.
Normally I don't give explanations to people who aren't owed one but I'll make an exception.
The thread was started to pass the word in case anyone here actually owns one of those pistols so they would know they are now effectively shit out of luck for any and all support. They would be wise to preferably unload their now orphaned dog ASAP before too many people wise up, or if they really like it start buying parts guns when others start dumping them.
The "hasta la vista, baby" comment was an allegory of sorts to the effects of Chapter 7 (liquidation) bankruptcy. Unless someone is really dumb to rescue some of the distressed assets, Hudson as a firearms company and as a firearms brand is gone forever.
ramairthree
03-18-19, 17:19
Not happy.
Not celebrating.
Not at all shocked or surprised.
About as predictable as whether water will run uphill or downhill.
When something like this happens, I'm prone to wonder how the owners were living: salaries, company perks, etc.
No surprise. Bad business decisions often lead to bad business results.
Don Quijote
03-18-19, 18:19
When something like this happens, I'm prone to wonder how the owners were living: salaries, company perks, etc.
In the case of most small businesses, their life isn't as glamorous as you might think even when this happens.
sidewaysil80
03-18-19, 19:50
I don't feel bad for Hudson in the slightest, good riddance. They ultimately did this to themselves and as such aren't the victim. The businesses/companies they robbed of millions upon millions are.
I don't feel bad for Hudson in the slightest, good riddance. I do feel bad however for all the companies and business to whom they owe millions upon millions of dollars to and will never get paid back. I feel bankruptcy is nothing more than sanctioned theft and that goes for both business and personal.
I don't feel sorry for those who made the poor business decisions, but I do feel sorry for those affected by those decisions regardless if they were employees of Hudson or if they are owed money by Hudson.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-19-19, 00:48
I don't feel sorry for those who made the poor business decisions, but I do feel sorry for those affected by those decisions regardless if they were employees of Hudson or if they are owed money by Hudson.
I think you've made that abundantly clear.
Falshooter
03-19-19, 01:07
i want to be happy about this but some will think its weird so i will be quietly happy.
ramairthree
03-19-19, 01:32
Huge investment to do what they did.
If I was going to make a pistol, it would be Glock 34/17/19/26 or Beretta 92 series magazine compatible.
I had actually looked at how much it would cost to make a batch of 2000 SS EII type Beretta slides a while back.
They are not a inch to do, and take a ton of machining. I can’t imagine the cost to set up a shop, buy the machinery, etc.
Maybe we should look at making steel Glock frame’s with frame mounted safeties and SA triggers- in case hardened, blued, or SS steel.
Don Quijote
03-19-19, 06:24
i want to be happy about this but some will think its weird so i will be quietly happy.
A bigger problem is that you care about what some stranger here will think. If you have your reasons to be happy this place shut down, say it. If someone can't handle it, **** him.
It is not just Hudson that has problems. All the subcontractors that now find their receivables have been noncollectable. Now their cash flow and sustainability get stretched. There could be a ripple effect as each company in the line fails.
In the case of most small businesses, their life isn't as glamorous as you might think even when this happens.
In my experience, most small businesses aren't capitalized $50,000,000.00.
Lol. Williejc called this years ago and everyone ignored him.
Weird stupid gun companies need to understand weird stupid gun owners that like weird stupid guns are poor and won’t drop the kind of loot Hudson was asking for a pistol.
Very true..The bright side here is, any remaining stock of assembled pistols will likely start showing up at places like CDNN, at some point after the bankruptcy hearing is settled, so, if anyone want to get one of these just for the weirdness, keep your eyes peeled, they'll be sold off, and likely sold off cheap.. I guess what I don't understand, is how they managed to get between 10-50million in loans...Don't banks look at how a business is being run before they loan money?
I was going to stay out of this but....
I don't understand the hatred towards the gun. Some people seem happy to see it go (as far as the firearm is concerned, not their financial situation). And this goes for other guns that are not "Glock". Like that recent Strike One gun. People here are quick to dump on these. Why? We complain when there's no innovation but then shit on ones that are.
You don't have to like it. If you don't it wasn't for you. Just move on to whatever you do like.
The last thing we need is less gun companies and less options. This hobby is attacked on all fronts and instead of accepting a new company as one more option for someone we dump on it because it doesn't set IPSC on fire or fails completely.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-19-19, 13:57
It is not just Hudson that has problems. All the subcontractors that now find their receivables have been noncollectable. Now their cash flow and sustainability get stretched. There could be a ripple effect as each company in the line fails.
I wonder though, how does a company like Hudson get so much in loans? Could it have been through misrepresenting themselves, are the lenders guilty of not doing their homework, or could it all have been legit?
Furbyballer
03-19-19, 14:10
Hudson is also a really good example of why you should never listen to celebrity endorsements/hype and sponsorship. They had many industry heavy hitters pushing their gun for awhile there and then poof its gone and we never hear those individuals talk about those pistols again...
pointblank4445
03-19-19, 14:22
Hudson is also a really good example of why you should never listen to celebrity endorsements/hype and sponsorship. They had many industry heavy hitters pushing their gun for awhile there and then poof its gone and we never hear those individuals talk about those pistols again...
I'm glad someone else is paying attention to that. There's another site where a lot of the cool-guy club/industry names were singing Cy Hudson's praises on what a "good dude" and innovator he is. A few were smart and started talking about how the H9 is cool but still needs refinement before Hudson completely crashed and burned so they wouldn't be remembered as complete shills. But now...dead silence across the board.
I wonder though, how does a company like Hudson get so much in loans? Could it have been through misrepresenting themselves, are the lenders guilty of not doing their homework, or could it all have been legit?
It may not be lenders. Hudson goes to Acme Anodizing and asks for a $1 million of anodizing on certain parts. Acme does it, then invoices Hudson. Hudson fails to pay. No money changed hands but it will be listed in bankruptcy as a debt to discharge.
Meanwhile, Acme incurred materiel and labor costs to do the anodizing. Maybe they make the next payroll or maybe they don't.
Everyone is "good for it" until they aren't.
I thought I'd read that some of their suppliers screwed them on out of spec parts. I never got to shoot the pistol, but I really wanted to. It looked promising to me. If they get cheap on the used market, I'll scoop one up for sure.
WickedWillis
03-19-19, 14:57
I don't feel sorry for those who made the poor business decisions, but I do feel sorry for those affected by those decisions regardless if they were employees of Hudson or if they are owed money by Hudson.
Exactly. We are talking about people in the industry we support fully, losing their jobs and livelihoods.
It may not be lenders. Hudson goes to Acme Anodizing and asks for a $1 million of anodizing on certain parts. Acme does it, then invoices Hudson. Hudson fails to pay. No money changed hands but it will be listed in bankruptcy as a debt to discharge.
Meanwhile, Acme incurred materiel and labor costs to do the anodizing. Maybe they make the next payroll or maybe they don't.
Everyone is "good for it" until they aren't.
How do you not get a substantial down on that large of a commitment though? I understand making a business relationship, but there needs to be some CYA in place at ACME.
Nothing I was interested in but one less option now.....
It may not be lenders. Hudson goes to Acme Anodizing and asks for a $1 million of anodizing on certain parts. Acme does it, then invoices Hudson. Hudson fails to pay. No money changed hands but it will be listed in bankruptcy as a debt to discharge.
Meanwhile, Acme incurred materiel and labor costs to do the anodizing. Maybe they make the next payroll or maybe they don't.
Everyone is "good for it" until they aren't.
Yeah, that is partly on ACME's sales / financial folks for extending Hudson that much credit terms.
I would figure after the first and second month of failing to follow through, you'd cut them off at the knees - which is likely what happened (eventually), but still.
At the same time, if ACME is a solid company (financially), they can turn that $1M 'loss' into some sort of tax loss / write off- and considering it likely only cost them 50% of that (at most) to make, they won't take a bath on all of it. They'll come out behind, but likely substantially less than $1M net loss.
Just got a email from Grabagun. They are selling the H9 for $599. I wonder how many people previously bought these. And I wonder who will buy them now.
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Don Quijote
03-19-19, 17:15
I wonder though, how does a company like Hudson get so much in loans? Could it have been through misrepresenting themselves, are the lenders guilty of not doing their homework, or could it all have been legit?
How did that weird-eyed bitch run up Teranos' valuation into the billions with nothing to show for it?
ETA: someone beat me to it but a significant portion of a bankrupt manufacturing business' liabilities are unpaid purchase orders for materials and processes.
Don Quijote
03-19-19, 17:17
Just got a email from Grabagun. They are selling the H9 for $599. I wonder how many people previously bought these. And I wonder who will buy them now.
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Yeah the value of those things is rapidly circling the drain.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-19-19, 17:58
$599??? Jesus, it is worth that as a curio
$599??? Jesus, it is worth that as a curioYep. For around $500 I'd buy one for a future C&R [emoji3]
This is the messy part of capitalism folks. Supply, demand, quality, business plans, customer service.
Personally I think they were doomed from the start. Not many are going to pay $1k for an all metal 9MM coming from an unknown company.
Obviously they thought the 1911 aficionados would flock to it and they had a pretty big media hype for it.
Then it failed to live up reliability-wise, then things when down the $hitter from there.
I give anyone props for trying to do something different and step out, but even then it's fraught with pitfalls.
titsonritz
03-19-19, 18:23
Zero shit allocated.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-19-19, 19:12
If I had a movie prop company I would buy 10 of them just to use as "future pistols" in movies. You used to see a lot of HK VP70s and P9s in this role.
I thought I'd read that some of their suppliers screwed them on out of spec parts. I never got to shoot the pistol, but I really wanted to. It looked promising to me. If they get cheap on the used market, I'll scoop one up for sure.
I don't know what they sold for but you can get a new one for $599
If I had a movie prop company I would buy 10 of them just to use as "future pistols" in movies. You used to see a lot of HK VP70s and P9s in this role.
For sure!
I think Jack Bauer ("24") has used every handgun but that one.
Do the math, folks: $50K left in assets, owe up to $50mil, they made about 8000 handguns. That's $6250 owed per handgun that sold for around $700 MSRP.
This isn't bad management, there's something criminal going on here.
Do the math, folks: $50K left in assets, owe up to $50mil, they made about 8000 handguns. That's $6250 owed per handgun that sold for around $700 MSRP.
This isn't bad management, there's something criminal going on here.
That is why I said when something like this happens I wonder about the lifestyle of the folks involved. Plenty of companies have the cash stripped out of them by unscrupulous owners. Perhaps not illegal in all cases, but not evidence of a good moral compass.
https://youtu.be/fjGcsYH0lOs
I don't know what they sold for but you can get a new one for $599
That's tempting.
That's tempting.There's one IN EE with a spare extractor
Don Quijote
03-24-19, 16:14
I don't know what they sold for but you can get a new one for $599
That's tempting.
Not even close to tempting. For $59.90, maybe. For nearly 600 bones there are about two dozen things I'd rather spend my money on.
crusader377
03-25-19, 08:21
The Hudson H9 failed for a simple reason. It was an unproven pistol, from an unknown manufacturer, trying to sell a pistol at premium handgun prices.
pointblank4445
03-25-19, 09:09
The Hudson H9 failed for a simple reason. It was an unproven pistol, from an unknown manufacturer, trying to sell a pistol at premium handgun prices.
I think in a world of $6-9k 1911's, $2500 Glock setups and people desperate to meld the benefits of a 1911 and a hi-cap striker gun, coming in over $1k in today's market isn't unreasonable. They had plenty of publicity and notable people flying their flag to help their cause. I know nothing about starting production and a gun company and even less about Hudson's business deals. At face value, if anyone had a shot out of the gate, they appeared to have a good start...but obviously mistakes were made.
As noted, everything that's ever been good has gone through teething, but people STILL argue about AR's, Glocks, AK's, etc...while hoping on new, "unproven" or long since disproven crap like the Tavor or whatever re-hashed 9mm PCC is flavor of the month.
Don Quijote
03-25-19, 10:50
I think in a world of $6-9k 1911's, $2500 Glock setups and people desperate to meld the benefits of a 1911 and a hi-cap striker gun,
I suspect that the number of people who buy $7000 1911s, or who buy $2500 Glocks, or who are desperate to med the "benefits" of a 1911 and a striker fired pistol are all a lot smaller than you would think.
Shit like that gets a lot of press in douchy gun magazines but the masses simply don't give a crap.
Adrenaline_6
03-25-19, 11:16
I suspect that the number of people who buy $7000 1911s, or who buy $2500 Glocks, or who are desperate to med the "benefits" of a 1911 and a striker fired pistol are all a lot smaller than you would think.
Shit like that gets a lot of press in douchy gun magazines but the masses simply don't give a crap.
Oh, I think they give a crap, they just can't afford it and not a high enough priority to do so.
I shot one and really liked it. I wanted to get one, mostly because of its uniqueness.
Just got a email from Grabagun. They are selling the H9 for $599. I wonder how many people previously bought these. And I wonder who will buy them now.
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Shows $799 for me with a 15rd magazine that I can no longer have in NJ. F Me.
pointblank4445
03-25-19, 12:30
I suspect that the number of people who buy $7000 1911s, or who buy $2500 Glocks, or who are desperate to med the "benefits" of a 1911 and a striker fired pistol are all a lot smaller than you would think.
Shit like that gets a lot of press in douchy gun magazines but the masses simply don't give a crap.
Perhaps, but It's enough to keep plenty of mediocre smiths and parts manufacturers turning a profit and people lining up to pay.
I lost all touch and hope when the green/zombie/biohazard fad kicked in. Point being never underestimate how low either the consumer or manufacturer will sink.
I was very close to buying one at that $599 price. But when they jacked it up to $799, nope. Especially with only one magazine.
Watch the video that was posted earlier in this thread. What killed Hudson was announcing the aluminum framed H9a before it was ready. Once potential buyers found out that a lighter aluminum framed pistol was in the works they stopped buying the heavier H9 in anticipation of buying the lighter H9a. Their cash flow dried up because they weren't selling anymore H9's.
EzGoingKev
03-25-19, 17:36
It is too bad.
IDK what all those KRISS owners are going to transition to now.
I was very close to buying one at that $599 price. But when they jacked it up to $799, nope. Especially with only one magazine.
I hear you. If I found a new one for 599, I grab it.
From KE Arm's Facebook page...for those looking for slides/frames, there may be a potential option.
********
In the past week Hudson Manufacturing’s bankruptcy filings became public. KE Arms LLC is listed as a creditor in these documents. As this is now in the public sphere, we feel it is now appropriate to discuss this publicly.
KE Arms manufactured the bulk of the slides for Hudson H9s. We were selected to produce these parts by Hudson because of our experience manufacturing pistol slides for a variety of OEM clients, and our ability to ramp up production. At one point we were delivering 400 H9 slides per week to Hudson Manufacturing. We also developed and prototyped the H9A frame.
The last payment we received from Hudson was in July of 2018. Between delivered product, inventory on hand, and development fees we are owed in the upwards of seven figure range.
We are currently exploring market demand for the slides and alloy frames (made from 7075 billet) we have on hand, and manufacturing new small parts. We want to recover our costs, and help existing owners of H9s that currently have nowhere to turn for service and support. Like those who have sent in guns months ago to Hudson for service and heard nothing back, we also have not had communication with Hudson in months.
If you’re interested in slides, frames, and parts for the H9 Pistol. Please comment here or e-mail sales@kearms.com
Don Quijote
03-27-19, 07:35
I work for a contract manufacturer and deal directly with customers. There's a reason why we either will no-quote or require 100% up front payment when dealing with startups.
Once bitten, twice shy.
notorious_ar15
03-30-19, 22:51
Latest email update I received from KE Arms:
Thank you for reaching out to us with your interest in parts and support for the Hudson H9 pistol.
Since our announcement a number of other parties have come forward with the desire to help the H9 community. We are currently in discussions with multiple manufacturers and looking at different sales and distribution options for the existing H9 component inventory. We will keep you informed as we know more.
We understand the desire to have more information and to get your firearms operational again, please be patient. The first court appearance for the Hudson bankruptcy case is scheduled for April 18th. We believe waiting until after this hearing before moving forward with anything is the current best course of action.
Regards,
KE Arms
Sales Team
-
Latest video from InRangeTV that touches on this as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CLCTRZeXHA
-
Rifleman_04
04-01-19, 09:12
Watch the video that was posted earlier in this thread. What killed Hudson was announcing the aluminum framed H9a before it was ready. Once potential buyers found out that a lighter aluminum framed pistol was in the works they stopped buying the heavier H9 in anticipation of buying the lighter H9a. Their cash flow dried up because they weren't selling anymore H9's.
That was Ian’s theory of what led to their bankruptcy. I think it was a very optimistic theory. IMO They were headed this direction even before they announced the H9A, they just might not have known it yet.
That was Ian’s theory of what led to their bankruptcy. I think it was a very optimistic theory. IMO They were headed this direction even before they announced the H9A, they just might not have known it yet.
What I don't understand is how they managed to get themselves into between $10-50million in debt, with something like $50,000 worth of assets. When I saw those numbers, my first thought was, where did the money go?
What I don't understand is how they managed to get themselves into between $10-50million in debt, with something like $50,000 worth of assets. When I saw those numbers, my first thought was, where did the money go?
Expensive business trips, martini lunches, etc, etc...
Eurodriver
04-28-19, 18:23
Lmfao. What a bunch of suckers.
“Muhhh low bore axis.”
“Muhhh new and exciting”
“Muhhhh 1911 trigger”
“Muhhh I’m different”
Being right all the time gets onerous.
Hudson Manufacturing Admits All Warranty H9 Pistols Are Now Just a Pile of Parts
http://www.recoilweb.com/hudson-manufacturing-admits-all-warranty-h9-pistols-are-now-just-a-pile-of-parts-149415.html
Wanna know what isn’t a pile of parts?
My Glock 19.
Lmfao. What a bunch of suckers.
“Muhhh low bore axis.”
“Muhhh new and exciting”
“Muhhhh 1911 trigger”
“Muhhh I’m autistic”
Being right all the time gets onerous.
Hudson Manufacturing Admits All Warranty H9 Pistols Are Now Just a Pile of Parts
http://www.recoilweb.com/hudson-manufacturing-admits-all-warranty-h9-pistols-are-now-just-a-pile-of-parts-149415.html
Wanna know what isn’t a pile of parts?
My Glock 19.
Coulda been a Glock or any other new design. Things happen, good or bad, with progress or else we would still be flinging rocks and tree limbs by hand.
It’s sad so many people seem happy that they went under.
Lmfao. What a bunch of suckers.
“Muhhh low bore axis.”
“Muhhh new and exciting”
“Muhhhh 1911 trigger”
“Muhhh I’m [DIFFERENTLY ABLED]”
Being right all the time gets onerous.
Hudson Manufacturing Admits All Warranty H9 Pistols Are Now Just a Pile of Parts
http://www.recoilweb.com/hudson-manufacturing-admits-all-warranty-h9-pistols-are-now-just-a-pile-of-parts-149415.html
Wanna know what isn’t a pile of parts?
My Glock 19.
FIFY bro
Eurodriver
04-30-19, 08:15
It’s sad so many people seem happy that they went under.
They were questionable from the start. Williejc posted some really interesting info on the company when it was first posted here.
You should read it, you’d be the first person who did.
What’s truly sad is that gun owners are so gullible.
Everyone wants to save $50 by buying a shitty AR barrel over something proven but those same guys will drop stacks on a weird new pistol.
They were questionable from the start. Williejc posted some really interesting info on the company when it was first posted here.
You should read it, you’d be the first person who did.
What’s truly sad is that gun owners are so gullible.
Everyone wants to save $50 by buying a shitty AR barrel over something proven but those same guys will drop stacks on a weird new pistol.
I guess I missed that post, I’ll have to look for it.
It just seemed like the typical “it’s new so it’s stupid and I hate it” which is usually is followed by “why is there no innovation/new ideas”.
At least it was semi affordable, if it was the price of SIG classic pistols it might have done better barring whatever was going on at the company.
They were questionable from the start. Williejc posted some really interesting info on the company when it was first posted here.
You should read it, you’d be the first person who did.
What’s truly sad is that gun owners are so gullible.
Everyone wants to save $50 by buying a shitty AR barrel over something proven but those same guys will drop stacks on a weird new pistol.
Looks like most of it was guessing.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?192527-Hudson-H9-announced/page4
Looks like most of it was guessing.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?192527-Hudson-H9-announced/page4
Pretty educated guessing IMO. You might note he clearly labels things as his opinion.
1. I hope that they have the magazines well thought out. Maybe they use Glock mags. The production machinery would be interesting to see. I wonder how many parts are outsourced? I have no data/no information. My guess and it's only a guess is that the sub assemblies will be made by various suppliers and the gun put together in Temple. Heat treating? QC?
I live close to Temple, which is/was the location of Legion Firearms. Is it coincidental that the Hudson H9 outfit is in Temple? This link about Legion may or may not be news to you.
soldiersystems.net/2014/08/26/legion-firearms-updates-th
2. Some of Hudson's about us blurbs advertise the company as veteran and woman run. So does that mean female veteran?
3. Hudson Mfg is in Bell County, Texas. Googling both will take the curious to their positions to be filled ads. One is for a maintenance worker who will be test firing handguns in a machine rest, and he will have regular building maintenance when not shooting/testing. Reading their postings convinces me that sub assemblies will be shipped in for assembly and testing. I think that the old Legion AR outfit likely did this. Research on them revealed that they had 6 employees in a fairly small building. Hudson is advertising for 5 jobs.
4. The mystery of Hudson intrigued me because I was not able to find any info on the net. By accessing ATF data, I located Hudson Mfg in a nearby county and then doing a property tax search using ATF data I found out that Hudson's ATF 07(manufacturing license)has a residence as its premise address(their term). That's right residence as premise address.The license is valid and in force. The same residence has also done ffl transfers. There would be no point in giving the home address or the peoples names on the tax roles except to say that one is Hudson. Any mods wanting the details can pm me.
5. I look forward to seeing them in the flesh and wish them well. Now for my prediction. I think that STI in Georgetown will be a participant in supplying major parts--maybe slides or frames.
6. My opinion is that the new pistol will be an outsourced product put together and then shipped. That approach may not work as well with handguns as it might with ARs. My guess is that sales will be dealer direct. I was very surprised to learn that the 07 manufacturing license address is a residence. The namesake and her husband are associated with a horticultural products franchise. These facts are public information that I obtained from Google.
Addendum: After studying the web material on the H9, the only drawback that I can see is that with a light attached, the body of the light is well below the trigger guard as opposed to being in line with it. Activation of the switch will not be as easy as on traditional pistols. Also shooting from a barricade and using a rest from a barricade will require a different approach with light attached. In this instance placing the bottom of the trigger guard on a rest would not be doable with light attached. Visualizing the otherwise streamlined handgun with a light makes the arrangement appear clumsy.
7. Anyone curious about the H9 can look up this patent number in Google: US D742,985, S. The patent is for an ornamental design, which is its claim. There are images of different views.
8, The rest of the story is told in this patent application number: 20160047613 A1. Mechanism is explained. Note that this number specifies patent application. Also given is the H9's inventor, Billie Cyril Hudson 111 of Georgetown, Tx.
9. $1147 is the figure that I've seen. Dealer price is the cost that'll determine what we pay. I don't see this small company producing the numbers to sell to distributors so my guess is that they will be dealer direct. If so, that should allow dealers to buy them for about $850. I arrived at this figure based on my belief that $1147 is not really a realistic retail and has been inflated for one reason or another. One essential condition for Hudson's survival is making the guns work before they're shipped. Having to replace defective products or having to spend money repairing returned pistols would drain funds and generate terrible publicity, especially at the beginning. The big companies that pay the tab on shipping and offer no questions asked warranty repair have created a spoiled population of customers. Swimming in this pond will be difficult for any new outfit just starting out. I'm not sure what the niche is. Loaded the H9's weight will exceed that of a loaded BHP by about 2 oz. The weight eliminates it for concealed carry for many folks even though it is thinner than others.
So who has the company pre-sold a batch to? Maybe Bass Pro/Cabelas has ordered a couple hundred to spread throughout their stores. When will they start shipping? My guess is July 1. Why so late? New fiscal year and the old adage that nothing works out like we plan. My first clue? Magazine design still being hammered out.
10. In that case, somebody else is assembling and proofing them. Today, I'm full of guesses so I'll guess that their very close neighbor, STI, is performing these tasks, at least to begin with.
11. Snappy recoil cause might be slide velocity from 1. weight of slide, 2. dwell time, or 3. weight of recoil spring.
The bold underlined part kind of goes without saying for a totally new company, unless you think williejc had advanced knowledge of future part failures?
I thought he might have been in on something with the Legion outfit (closing and changing names isn't uncommon) , but couldn't find an owner/management link.
When the first pics and details of the H9 hit the web, I remember thinking it looked like a neat and new concept, but without any practical use for most people. I think the portion of the gun buying public that is willing to spend that kind of cash just to be gun hipsters is a small group, as most gun owners don't own a pile of handguns they never really use just for the grins of it.
In a way it's a shame, I like to see people at least try to innovate; but it sure looks like a shady outfit now that the numbers are out. Glad I was never tempted.
When the first pics and details of the H9 hit the web, I remember thinking it looked like a neat and new concept, but without any practical use for most people. I think the portion of the gun buying public that is willing to spend that kind of cash just to be gun hipsters is a small group, as most gun owners don't own a pile of handguns they never really use just for the grins of it.
In a way it's a shame, I like to see people at least try to innovate; but it sure looks like a shady outfit now that the numbers are out. Glad I was never tempted.
Pretty much how I felt. If they released them at the clearance price (~$600) I probably would have bought one.
Back from the dead!
I know that this is an old thread, but anyone have details on the availability of magazines for these? I have one, and could use 3 more mags, but they're out of stock everywhere.
I'm also trying to decide what I want to do about holstering it, haven't decided.
Weren't they S&W 5900 mags?
Weren't they S&W 5900 mags?
They were a reworked version of some sort of S&W magazine, not sure which one. But they were modified, I know that.
They were a reworked version of some sort of S&W magazine, not sure which one. But they were modified, I know that.It was 5900 mags but I didn't know they were modified
I remember thinking it was cool that they went with an mag that was proven, inexpensive and readily available
GunMagWarehouse still has the 17 round +2 mags for $45, still showing in stock.
Although 17 round Mecgar mags for the 5906 use the flush base and aren’t hard to find for $22.
But I’ve not seen a post or video of anyone successfully modifying a 5906 mag for an H9. The Hudson H9 mag cutout looks to be higher than the S&W. I’m curious if the 5906 mag springs are a suitable replacement.
And last I looked KE Arms still has the +2 and std. mag bases.
I still shoot mine, I know the smart thing would be to sell it now they’re out of production but it’s just too much fun. Like having a sports car from Slovakia, just enjoy it while it’s running and worry about parts when it breaks.
GunMagWarehouse still has the 17 round +2 mags for $45, still showing in stock.
Although 17 round Mecgar mags for the 5906 use the flush base and aren’t hard to find for $22.
But I’ve not seen a post or video of anyone successfully modifying a 5906 mag for an H9. The Hudson H9 mag cutout looks to be higher than the S&W. I’m curious if the 5906 mag springs are a suitable replacement.
And last I looked KE Arms still has the +2 and std. mag bases.
I still shoot mine, I know the smart thing would be to sell it now they’re out of production but it’s just too much fun. Like having a sports car from Slovakia, just enjoy it while it’s running and worry about parts when it breaks.
I found a local gun store with the S&W magazines in stock, so I tried them out. While they are clearly the same design, they do not work. Not only is the bottom of the magazine cut differently, but the follower is of a similar but different design, and does not protrude enough to trip the slide release. It would take a lot of modification to try to make these magazines work, so I will just have to settle for the 17 rounders.
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