Practical Use of Barrier Stops

[BallisticHarmony]

I was perusing the Knights Armament 2019 catalog today and noticed that they have yet another new iteration of their barrier stop. This one looks like the teeth protrude out from a variety of angles, allowing the gun to be "rolled" more effectively:

https://i.imgur.com/kLex1Ys.png

I'm curious about the community's opinion of these attachments and how effective they are in real-world scenarios. Knights has been producing various iterations of barrier stops since at least 2014, so there is certainly a market of people willing to buy them. What I'd like to know is who these people are. Are they are active duty? LE? Concerned citizens? Or just competition folks?

With light accessories typically on the right side of the rail, I can see these becoming pretty useful at the 6 and 9 o'clock positions. Being able to dig into a barrier and put your weight into the gun instead of resting it on a surface or cradling it in your support hand certainly has a use case.

I suppose the argument against using these would be that they impede fast, dynamic shooting, and I'm sure there are many who ascribe to never pointing your muzzle around a wall or through a windowsill, as examples. Barrier stops are not great from shooting from deep cover and necessitate shooting right up against the barrier, which might make you an easier target. I remember reading on TFB a while ago that the new school of thought includes keeping one's distance from a barrier before shooting to reduce the risk of shrapnel.

I'm sure someone far smarter than me has a far smarter opinion, so I'll take my call off the air. Cheers

[Don Quijote]

The less shit on my rifle the better

[markm]

The less shit on my rifle the better

Yep. That thing is so niche, it's nuts.

I could see that snagging on all kinds of stuff in the real world.

[TomMcC]

Those are pretty snaggy looking. I use a CMR low pro handstop on a couple of my rifles. They do 2 things for me...they allow me to pull the rifle into my shoulder and they allow me to pin the gun against a barricade, both for better stability.

[Outlander Systems]

I use my support hand as a barrier stop.

[Eurodriver]

I thought this thread was about condoms.

Came here to post that I never use them.

Saw it’s about bs gamer attachments for your rifle.

Same response applies.

[bnasty49]

I feel like this kind of thing would have caught on and been made fairly relevant in the right communities if it were truly a solid performer. :no:

[opngrnd]

Don't a lot of 3 Gun dudes use them? That seems to be where I recall seeing them.

[ogtruckin]

I usually use my flashlight as a barrier stop.

[bp7178]

I see this as a niche product for someone who has to cover a door or window for the foreseeable future, not so much a dynamic fluid thing.

[wetidlerjr]

The less shit on my rifle the better

:lol:

Pretty much...

[Straight Shooter]

I feel the same about this as I do these big ass, giant charging handle levers that are obnoxiously big- not on my rifle.

[ViniVidivici]

The less shit on my rifle the better

This. Things like this add weight, and hang up on things, while lightening the wallet, for my purposes.

Can't blame 'em, it's their job to innovate and sell stuff.

[Vegasshooter]

Also, mentioned by the OP about putting all your weight into it, TERRIBLE IDEA. I know you weren’t being literal when you said that, but just in case someone reads that and doesn’t know: you never want to lean in and put too much weight on an AR’s front end. I don’t care if it’s a free float rail with a truck axle barrel. You will induce receiver flex in your rifle,and you’ll adjust your POI. I learned this shooting SR-25’s with Jack (Failure2Stop). He talks about it in regards to “pre-loading” your bi-pod. This is something that’s very common on bolt guns, and likely guys do it on gas guns too. Bad idea. The gun should be at zero pre-load, so that translates directly to leaning into a barricade stop.
AR’s are a different bird, and shooting them as precision rifles takes s different hand. Very rewarding when done correctly though.

[Hammer_Man]

The Army told me to use my hand as a barrier stop, so that is what I do. I have to admit they are cool looking, but meh....

[RVTMaverick]

I also see can some advantage as well though, injury to your support hand, but for the most part, 95% of the time, and as others have said> I use my support hand for this type of shooting-training.
The 5% I've used the very end of my handguard, as 1 carbines I have, the Forward Facing Edge, has Barrier Gripping potential, I can use it to Really Dig into the Corner of a Wall or whatever the support is you are wanting to use, Just have to be aware to Not to be putting pressure on the barrel, best case, is to Not be touching the barrel. ;)

[1911-A1]

The Gripstop is a better alternative, as it works as a fore-grip but has teeth to engage barriers or other surfaces.

[Renegade0100]

I run a vertical grip or handstop on all of my builds; if I'm at a barricade or place in which I can support my rifle upon, I just use the VFG/handstop and lean into it, gripping either the magwell or over/around the VFG depending on the structure. My weaponlight serves the same purpose if I'm shooting parallel to a structure.

[nick84]

I have always assumed these trinkets to be some kind of magic 3gun addition that I didn't know about; I just never thought to actually ask. All I see is something else that's going to snag on my pack, body, or gear when slinging or un-slinging. Foregrip FTW

[TomMcC]

I have always assumed these trinkets to be some kind of magic 3gun addition that I didn't know about; I just never thought to actually ask. All I see is something else that's going to snag on my pack, body, or gear when slinging or un-slinging. Foregrip FTW

No magic...I shoot a couple of 3guns a month and I dont remember ever seeing anyone with a gnarled barricade stop. I'm sure they made these for 3gun, but does any 3gunner actually use one?

[HelloLarry]

I thought these were more for PRS. I guess 3G too. I might use it for hunting. Tactical use? I'm no cop, but I can't see it for anything where you don't want to be seen.

[titsonritz]

Here you go...
https://star15.com/doublestar-dragon-s-tooth-thumb-stop

[Dr. Bullseye]

I'm cancelling my order.

[bad aim]

I use Pat McNamara's Sling Ding as a way to help stabilize the rifle when shooting around barrier/cover. I like it, as it also helps with stand-off, too, so say if you're shooting across the hood of a car, you won't accidentally shoot the car...

[Failure2Stop]

Some guys like them, some guys don't.
It's a refinement/evolution of previous designs that held a spot within certain applications.
We made it do what was asked for: positively grip a surface even when angled up/down and left/right.
And we put a QD cup in it.
These are pretty common item types in PRS and DMR type competitions, but not as much when in events/stages that allow positional bags unless the stage furniture doesn't work well with such bag. In the end, in that environment, you're only limited by what you have at the stage, and a barricade stop is always there.

[BallisticHarmony]

Some guys like them, some guys don't.
It's a refinement/evolution of previous designs that held a spot within certain applications.
We made it do what was asked for: positively grip a surface even when angled up/down and left/right.
And we put a QD cup in it.
These are pretty common item types in PRS and DMR type competitions, but not as much when in events/stages that allow positional bags.

Thanks Jack, I've actually been meaning to ask you about your thoughts on bipod deployment. Do you think that bipods are unnecessary weight for all squad members besides a machine gunner? I remember you mentioning in a previous post that the Army's decision to equip their HK DMR guys with bipods was overkill because of the dynamic nature of all squad members. Does that mean that you would never want to see guys running regular carbines using a bipod either? Are they best for dedicated snipers and MGs only?

[3 AE]

Possible secondary use as a bottle opener? :laugh:

[slowrx]

I carry a rifle at work/deploy with one for call outs. I don't use one, and I can't think of anyone on our team that does. I just haven't had the need for it. Between a light, a peq and pressure pads I have enough going on out front of my rifle already, so they just arent for me.

[voiceofreason]

Utimately boils down to the weight/snag issues vs how often you'll use it balanced with how effectively it will tighten your groups.

Your mission, your decision. Worst case scenario is to try it out and do some measurable testing of skills you already practice and see if your times decrease or your accuracy increases.

[Failure2Stop]

Thanks Jack, I've actually been meaning to ask you about your thoughts on bipod deployment. Do you think that bipods are unnecessary weight for all squad members besides a machine gunner? I remember you mentioning in a previous post that the Army's decision to equip their HK DMR guys with bipods was overkill because of the dynamic nature of all squad members. Does that mean that you would never want to see guys running regular carbines using a bipod either? Are they best for dedicated snipers and MGs only?

Bipods are a double edged sword. Really good when you don't have anything else, but minimally useful in environments where there is a lot of other stuff, and where you can use other carried items to build a better position. They are also a bit snaggy, especially on a short-ish gun when working in tight confines. Take this thread as an example; of 29 responses so far regarding a barricade stop, at least 11 are critical of it snagging, and it's only about 1.5" exposed from the handguard, and way behind the muzzle; bipods are far more obtrusive than that, even in a stowed configuration.

It really isn't a matter of associating a piece of equipment to success or failure, I simply want users to be educated and trained to a sufficient level to match their needs/mission with the gear available. Sometimes I use a bipod, sometimes I use a bag, sometimes I use handguard contact, sometimes I use a tripod... etc, etc,; none of them are right all the time, and they aren't all applicable to any specific condition. But I know what makes sense for the positional situation I am working in, because I have done it a lot with a required high level of successful result. Just giving a kid a bipod to stick to his gun isn't the answer.

[1168]

In my experience, bipods belong on Mk46/48’s/249’s and 240’s. A rifleman can use an assault pack, ruck, low wall, sandbag, pile of dirt, big rock, log, etc. to good effect, and not have a bunch of crap hanging off the bottom of his rifle, interfering with a proper grip when not in use. Also, some of the rests I mentioned count as cover. A SDM can be well served with a tripod that doesn’t stay on the weapon. Or any of the previously mentioned stuff.

Sniper weapons are not something I am qualified to comment on, but most of them that I have seen have bipods, so they must get some use out of that.

Dudes that carry stuff to the fight, rather than just ranges tend to prefer any added equipment/weapon weight to either drastically increase capability/survivability (NVGs) or to have a wide range of uses (LPVO). The uses for bipods, on the other hand, are narrow, and don’t really increase capability within the squad.

[BallisticHarmony]

Bipods are a double edged sword. Really good when you don't have anything else, but minimally useful in environments where there is a lot of other stuff, and where you can use other carried items to build a better position. They are also a bit snaggy, especially on a short-ish gun when working in tight confines. Take this thread as an example; of 29 responses so far regarding a barricade stop, at least 11 are critical of it snagging, and it's only about 1.5" exposed from the handguard, and way behind the muzzle; bipods are far more obtrusive than that, even in a stowed configuration.

It really isn't a matter of associating a piece of equipment to success or failure, I simply want users to be educated and trained to a sufficient level to match their needs/mission with the gear available. Sometimes I use a bipod, sometimes I use a bag, sometimes I use handguard contact, sometimes I use a tripod... etc, etc,; none of them are right all the time, and they aren't all applicable to any specific condition. But I know what makes sense for the positional situation I am working in, because I have done it a lot with a required high level of successful result. Just giving a kid a bipod to stick to his gun isn't the answer.

Well said, thank you

[BallisticHarmony]

In my experience, bipods belong on Mk46/48’s/249’s and 240’s. A rifleman can use an assault pack, ruck, low wall, sandbag, pile of dirt, big rock, log, etc. to good effect, and not have a bunch of crap hanging off the bottom of his rifle, interfering with a proper grip when not in use. Also, some of the rests I mentioned count as cover. A SDM can be well served with a tripod that doesn’t stay on the weapon. Or any of the previously mentioned stuff.

Sniper weapons are not something I am qualified to comment on, but most of them that I have seen have bipods, so they must get some use out of that.

Dudes that carry stuff to the fight, rather than just ranges tend to prefer any added equipment/weapon weight to either drastically increase capability/survivability (NVGs) or to have a wide range of uses (LPVO). The uses for bipods, on the other hand, are narrow, and don’t really increase capability within the squad.

Well said, thank you