Smoothing out the 11.5

[Boogieman2]

So I’m thinking of smoothing the 11.5 recoil out and there are tons of options out there but I wanted to ask opinions. The list is short but big players
1. VLTOR A5
2. Geiselle super 42
3. Ferfans bcg
4. Surefire OBG

I figured someone here has atleast played with most or some of these. I’ve had an A5 and I like it but just wondering if the other offerings are worth the coin

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

What buffer and spring are you running in it now?

[Boogieman2]

I have an A5 on one lower but the lower that’s getting NFAd is a stock KAC lower. Not sure if I wanna move stuff around or what

[Clint]

A properly gassed 11.5 CAR runs pretty well.

Sounds like your barrel may be over gassed.

Heavier buffers are not the best way to compensate for over gassing; correcting the gas drive is the best way.

We have several options for correcting gas drive.

http://www.blackrivertactical.com/concrete5/store/#!/Adjustable-Gas-Port/c/6464009/offset=0&sort=normal

[Boogieman2]

I mean it’s a KAC 11.5 doesn’t feel over gassed, I just wouldn’t mind smoothing it out more if it can be done

[jl1288]

Howdy, this is just my 1/2 cents worth and a sample of two. I have 2 11.5in sbr's. They are both Noveske chainsaw uppers and lowers. The fcg/lpk for both came from white oak armament. Both barrels are Daniel Defense circa 2012 with gas ports measuring .076 both have AAC blackout flash hiders and this is where they diverge. One has a std BCM re running their std carbine spring and an H2 buffer, the other sbr is running the Vltor A5 with their std spring and the 5.3oz buffer. It runs much smoother than the std carbine re. My sons and everyone else who has fired these two sbrs make the same observation that the Vltor re is much smoother. YMMV but I hope this helps.

[Hmac]

For several years, I’ve been very pleased using a VLTOR A5, and a BattleComp compensator on two different 11.5 rifles.

[Zane1844]

My 11.5 was nice with the A5 and AH4

[Boogieman2]

Yeah I’m leaning towards just staying with the A5. When I had my 416 it smoothed that beast out tremendously

[MistWolf]

I have a couple of 11.5" uppers, both suppressed. Both are smoother with the A5 RE, A5H2 buffer and Sprinco green spring than with an H2. In fact, all my uppers are smoother with the A5 setup. But more important than the choice between an H2 or A5H2 buffer, is getting the gas drive right. If an upper is over gassed, recoil is going to be harsh no matter what buffer & spring is used.

[Boogieman2]

Yeah seems like the genral vote is A5. I think I’ll stay there. Seems like a better roll of the dice to be honest

[wetidlerjr]

I have the Geissele Super 42 in my 11.5" BCM AR pistol. Not a lot of rounds through it (under 500) but it works fine with no problems. I had a few ejection problems early on but that was gone around 50 rounds or so.

56595

[ErnieB]

At the advice of Mr. Larson, I am running an LMT enhanced bolt carrier with BCM bolt and parts, green Sprinco spring, A5 buffer tube with A5-2 buffer with a BCM 12.5" upper. I have only shot it with M855, XM197, Fed Gold Medal Match 77gr and Fed AE 62gr & 55gr. So far it has eaten everything without a hiccup and shoots pretty dang smooth.

[Iraqgunz]

I'll be bringing one of my SBR's with me since the new 5320.20 approval times are taking less than 14 days.


At the advice of Mr. Larson, I am running an LMT enhanced bolt carrier with BCM bolt and parts, green Sprinco spring, A5 buffer tube with A5-2 buffer with a BCM 12.5" upper. I have only shot it with M855, XM197, Fed Gold Medal Match 77gr and Fed AE 62gr & 55gr. So far it has eaten everything without a hiccup and shoots pretty dang smooth.

[amac]

Op, by “smoothing out” do you mean shoot flatter? I’ve got a 12.5” and 10.5” and both run smooth with green Sprinco springs and H2 weights. Action is reliable in both. I’d direct smoothing to the exit point. What muzzle device are you using? I find a good break to have more affect on flatter shooting than slowing my action. Another area for recoil management is weight. I prefer light quad rails over slim, ultra light tubular rails. For me, the few extra ounces yield flatter shots and quicker follow ups. What’s the rest of your build?

[Hmac]

Op, by “smoothing out” do you mean shoot flatter?

I took him to mean, less felt recoil/quicker return to target.

[1168]

“Smoothing out” appears to be M4c code for reducing recoil. I was reading an older thread on here yesterday about a buffer designed to reduce recoil. Everyone was jumping on the don’t be such a sissy bandwagon. Because the OP used the word recoil. There were even posters stating that the rifle has none.

But if you say “smoother”, the same people come out of the woodwork with compensators, gas port dimensions, A5 buffers, PMC Bronze, and rainbow colored action springs.

[MegademiC]

“Smoothing out” appears to be M4c code for reducing recoil. I was reading an older thread on here yesterday about a buffer designed to reduce recoil. Everyone was jumping on the don’t be such a sissy bandwagon. Because the OP used the word recoil. There were even posters stating that the rifle has none.

But if you say “smoother”, the same people come out of the woodwork with compensators, gas port dimensions, A5 buffers, PMC Bronze, and rainbow colored action springs.

You are not reducing recoil, you are smoothing the curve so it has a lower peak.

Some people call it ‘felt recoil’, but Its best to avoid feelings and quantify it.

[MistWolf]

“Smoothing out” appears to be M4c code for reducing recoil. I was reading an older thread on here yesterday about a buffer designed to reduce recoil. Everyone was jumping on the don’t be such a sissy bandwagon. Because the OP used the word recoil. There were even posters stating that the rifle has none.

But if you say “smoother”, the same people come out of the woodwork with compensators, gas port dimensions, A5 buffers, PMC Bronze, and rainbow colored action springs.

A buffer cannot reduce recoil unless it adds mass to the rifle. However, it can soften recoil. It can make the recoil feel smoother. Softening and smoothing recoil helps the shooter control recoil better.

[prdubi]

Get a gemtech suppressed bolt

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[1168]

A buffer cannot reduce recoil unless it adds mass to the rifle. However, it can soften recoil. It can make the recoil feel smoother. Softening and smoothing recoil helps the shooter control recoil better.

the product in the thread I mentioned was, in fact, a buffer.

Don’t take me too seriously. It was just an observation of semantics, and the way the group reacts to certain word choices. Different users also sometimes get different reactions.

I can go either way on most of these products that smooth the recoil impulse, or reduce it. I’ve been shooting a BRT 14” Optimum with an A5H2 lately and love it. Its my favorite rifle right now.

Most of us would benefit from more ammo and dry fire more than we would from shuffling buffers.

[Hmac]

A buffer cannot reduce recoil unless it adds mass to the rifle. However, it can soften recoil. It can make the recoil feel smoother. Softening and smoothing recoil helps the shooter control recoil better.

Yeah. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can be spread out over a longer period of time, however, and the acceleration curve can be modified to moderate any sharp humps, thereby reducing felt recoil....

[MistWolf]

Yeah. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can be spread out over a longer period of time, however, and the acceleration curve can be modified to moderate any sharp humps,
Yes, absolutely.


thereby softening felt recoil....

Fixed it for ya :)

You're correct that felt recoil is how the recoil feels and that the acceleration rate (attack), duration (sustain) and fade along with other factors, such as stock shape, recoil pad construction and so on, determines how recoil feels to the shooter, it's still the same amount of recoil energy.

It's like emptying a 55 gallon barrel of water. You can dump it on someone's head all at once, or you can pour it over them in a steady trickle. Or, if you really dislike the guy, you could freeze it and dump it on him as a large block of ice. Same amount of water.

[Boogieman2]

Op, by “smoothing out” do you mean shoot flatter? I’ve got a 12.5” and 10.5” and both run smooth with green Sprinco springs and H2 weights. Action is reliable in both. I’d direct smoothing to the exit point. What muzzle device are you using? I find a good break to have more affect on flatter shooting than slowing my action. Another area for recoil management is weight. I prefer light quad rails over slim, ultra light tubular rails. For me, the few extra ounces yield flatter shots and quicker follow ups. What’s the rest of your build?

Entire build wise
-KAC CQB mod 2 upper
-MAMS
-sandcutter bolt
-VLTOR A5 w/H2
Plus optics.

[1168]

Entire build wise
-KAC CQB mod 2 upper
-MAMS
-sandcutter bolt
-VLTOR A5 w/H2
Plus optics.

Sounds like a quality piece. I would change nothing.

[MQ105]

I was thinking along similar lines. Take what you have and add training/ammo...

[amac]

Entire build wise
-KAC CQB mod 2 upper
-MAMS
-sandcutter bolt
-VLTOR A5 w/H2
Plus optics.

That’s a bulletproof build! I don’t have any experience with KAC’s muzzle devices, but their website states felt recoil can be reduced by as much as 67%, depending on barrel length, with that device. Paired with your A5 buffer system, you may be looking for a unicorn solution. I have a 12.5” Knights build with the older URX II quad rail. I went with an AAC brake system and can. Without the can, she shoots super flat. Unless you’ve purchased the KAC can, perhaps try another brake and see if she shoots any flatter. Otherwise, don’t think the grass is any greener!

[Wake27]

Entire build wise
-KAC CQB mod 2 upper
-MAMS
-sandcutter bolt
-VLTOR A5 w/H2
Plus optics.

I wouldn’t change anything, aside from maybe experimenting with different VLTOR buffers like the -3.


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[Jwknutson17]

I wouldn’t change anything, aside from maybe experimenting with different VLTOR buffers like the -3.


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Agree with what Wake said above. The 3 works really well with the vltor or colt spring.

I personally run the A5h2 with the Green spring. That is what I run on multiple KAC 11.5 CQB guns with the MAMS and quality ammo.

[BoyScout4Life]

Wolf xtra power spring and h2 buffer, works fine for me....

[ViniVidivici]

No experience with the VLTOR A5 system, but it sounds like it'd be your best bet.

I just run an H buffer w/ standard CAR spring in mine. Runs fine.

[BufordTJustice]

My 11.5" Sionics RGP with SpecWar 556 runs great.

Vltor A5 system with Tubbs AR10 Buffer spring and A5H4 buffer.

LMT enhanced BCG

SLR Rifleworks sentry 7 AGB

Shoots like a hot .22 with XM193/855. Precious little port noise.


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[indianalex01]

Colt 6933EPR. Geiselle super 42 and H buffer is what it came with. I don’t notice it being and different then a stock spring and H1. It’s a feel good fix to something that has no issues. Rifle is awesome.

[bigjoe7757]

I used the A5 system with the 5.3oz buffer when I built my 11.3 BA Hanson and it shoots great. I did put a green sprinco spring in it and didn’t like the results, It felt like the action was to slow. Went back to the Stock spring and it works great.