Tidbits from a LE pistol class at a large agency

[Bodhi]

Just got done with an all day pistol class for a large agency. I had a lot of fun, it was about 7 hours of solid shooting - just around 400 rounds/each.

Great instruction, however, i'm here to drop more of an analytical tidbit like I did in this post during academy week

(See here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?204927-Pistol-range-week-at-a-large-agency-s-academy&highlight=)

Anyway - the class had just under a dozen people. Of that, only a few of us had something non-glock. It was considered a Pistol 2 class, so everyone who was there was pretty squared-away for the most part. Made for a good group.

We had two XD's. One .40 and one 9mm. Both shot by I guess what you could say as "seasoned" guys. One of them said he's been shooting his XD since they first came out and "I was one of the first people to carry these on the street."

They both seemed to like their platforms quite a lot. However, both of them had magazine issues where the feed lips would bend inward or outward causing them to have to straighten them out via leatherman everyone few courses of fire.

This range has caused issues for me personally with my baseplates before, but never feed lips. I had one of my VP9 mags go in pieces, even after resetting the baseplate after each string of fire. I've also seen it sheer off a 226 retaining pin for the mag, causing it to be a paperweight.

I took along my M&P 2.0 full size. Not my "listed duty weapon," but shh, don't tell daddy. I had no issues at all. Seeing those XD mags bend after "years of training" as they said does make me wonder what will be in store for these M&P mags. My only modifications to my 2.0 are an undercut that I did myself, a mag release scallop, and a slightly extended mag release. No issues as stated before. One note: The slide release on the M&P is no where near as easy to activate as a glock and obviously not stupid-easy as a PPQ or my VP9. I wasn't consistent enough to activate it every single time with ease so I just sling shooted most of the time. The grip of the 2.0 is very nice. I would say after 400 rounds all day that it's as grippy as it can be without making your hands raw.

Like I said, about 400 rounds each. I've never shot to the point where I was fatigued before, but I did today. My eyes were nearly sick of looking at everything, especially at the end where it was a lot of 25 yard work.

Malfunctions: I didn't see anyone have any malfunctions today with somewhere around 4k rounds fired total on that range. However, two weeks ago I attended another little pistol qual with a few guys doing the IDPA qualification at work and someone's M&P went down. The ammo we use at this training facility is known to have hard primers and leave your gun with all sorts of nice gold flakes all over the place. He had an M&P PRO series 9mm. I ran into him a few days ago and he said he ended up replacing the firing pin and noted that he had around 20k rounds on the original.

[Don Quijote]

What on earth could make a range hard on magazines? Are you guys shooting on concrete 100% of the time? I've never had a magazine explode on contact with any ground surface: gravel, dirt, grass, and concrete.

Magazines are disposable. If feed lips are bending out of shape with regular use, it's time for the trash can. Buy new ones.

What's this ammo that has hard primers and leave metal flakes all over the inside of your pistol?

[Business_Casual]

Interesting review. I’m glad you had some take aways, and food for thought on the longevity of wear items. Do you have “range” mags and “carry” mags, with a hard line between the two?

I think 20K is past what the OEM would consider service life of any internal part.

[Bodhi]

What on earth could make a range hard on magazines? Are you guys shooting on concrete 100% of the time? I've never had a magazine explode on contact with any ground surface: gravel, dirt, grass, and concrete.

Magazines are disposable. If feed lips are bending out of shape with regular use, it's time for the trash can. Buy new ones.

What's this ammo that has hard primers and leave metal flakes all over the inside of your pistol?

100% concrete range. Most strings of fire involve a reload.

Frangible ammo.


Interesting review. I’m glad you had some take aways, and food for thought on the longevity of wear items. Do you have “range” mags and “carry” mags, with a hard line between the two?

I think 20K is past what the OEM would consider service life of any internal part.

I concur. And no, he is not in a sworn position. So while it wasn't his duty weapon, he said he's his main gun he competes with. I think he's already at 14-15 events attended since November.

[ST911]

We had two XD's. One .40 and one 9mm. Both shot by I guess what you could say as "seasoned" guys. One of them said he's been shooting his XD since they first came out and "I was one of the first people to carry these on the street."

They both seemed to like their platforms quite a lot. However, both of them had magazine issues where the feed lips would bend inward or outward causing them to have to straighten them out via leatherman everyone few courses of fire.

This range has caused issues for me personally with my baseplates before, but never feed lips. I had one of my VP9 mags go in pieces, even after resetting the baseplate after each string of fire. I've also seen it sheer off a 226 retaining pin for the mag, causing it to be a paperweight.

Normal. So normal in one place that they had recruits take a carpet square or their coats onto the range for the mags to fall on.


Malfunctions: I didn't see anyone have any malfunctions today with somewhere around 4k rounds fired total on that range. However, two weeks ago I attended another little pistol qual with a few guys doing the IDPA qualification at work and someone's M&P went down. The ammo we use at this training facility is known to have hard primers and leave your gun with all sorts of nice gold flakes all over the place. He had an M&P PRO series 9mm. I ran into him a few days ago and he said he ended up replacing the firing pin and noted that he had around 20k rounds on the original.

Some green frang products I use have a higher failure rate than leaded primers, esp in striker fired pistols.

On the M&P striker, here's a snapshot of parts replacement schedule for the M&P 9/40, published in the armorers manual:
every 5k- replace slide stop, trigger return spring, RSA, coil pins, magazine spring and follower
every 10k- replace trigger bar assembly, striker assembly
every 20k- replace locking block, takedown lever and retaining wire, magazine catch, striker block, spring, and spacer, ejector

[Bodhi]

Normal. So normal in one place that they had recruits take a carpet square or their coats onto the range for the mags to fall on.



Some green frang products I use have a higher failure rate than leaded primers, esp in striker fired pistols.

On the M&P striker, here's a snapshot of parts replacement schedule for the M&P 9/40, published in the armorers manual:
every 5k- replace slide stop, trigger return spring, RSA, coil pins, magazine spring and follower
every 10k- replace trigger bar assembly, striker assembly
every 20k- replace locking block, takedown lever and retaining wire, magazine catch, striker block, spring, and spacer, ejector

Thanks for that, i'll use this for my M&Ps

[Ron3]

On the M&P striker, here's a snapshot of parts replacement schedule for the M&P 9/40, published in the armorers manual:
every 5k- replace slide stop, trigger return spring, RSA, coil pins, magazine spring and follower
every 10k- replace trigger bar assembly, striker assembly
every 20k- replace locking block, takedown lever and retaining wire, magazine catch, striker block, spring, and spacer, ejector

Huh. Is that the same for 2.0's?

Seems excessive. I'm not sure what the "coil pins" are.

Know what would be cool? A pinned info thread with parts schedules for the most popular guns! Maybe in chart form like in automobile manuals.