View Full Version : Starting from scratch - Practical, purposeful guns.
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 07:53
Over the last while I've sold off all my guns that don't have a specific purpose and am essentially starting over with the end goal of having the most practical purpose driven gun tool box for long term. Maximum simplicity, commonality, and utility is paramount.
I'd like some discussion about what that would look like as I move forward.
I hunted for many years since I was a young boy but have lost time and interest in it in the past few years. I plan to get back into it as my son gets old enough to learn and enjoy the outdoors and learn woods-craft.
I have a very nice 25yd indoor range next door at my office and I do quick lunch time range sessions several times a month. I shoot outdoors at my buddy's farm but that's a planned weekend thing.
Here's what I have at this moment.
1) G43 - My wife's AIWB EDC and her nightstand gun.
2) Gen 4 G19 - My EDC and nightstand gun. I've carried this gun AIWB everywhere daily for probably 5+ years now. Streamlight Pro-tac 1L in my pocket during the day, Surefire G2X on the nightstand. Years of gym means I have no problem concealing while dressing normally.
3) Sionics Patrol 3E - Medium contour barrel, two-stage trigger, Vortex Viper PST II 1-6x in a non-QD mount, waiting on Arisaka 300s to come back in stock. Might do offset MBUS Pros, still undecided.
*This is my general purpose outside rifle
At least one .44
You need at least one .44.
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 08:16
Oh yeah, I do still have my old Marlin 336 from when I was a boy. It was my pig and deer gun basically my whole life. I grew up in the South/mid GA swamps running public land like a hooligan.
I used to carry a 44 Vaquero when we would do multi-day hike/camp/hunts on the WMAs out I-16 but I never fired it at an animal so it was sold a very long time ago.
Sometimes I do hunt with a buddy doing nighttime pig control on farms down South but I borrow all his NV crap for that. It's not frequent enough for me to spend the money.
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 08:38
To get more action here I should probably have changed the title to "What guns have the right juju to fight ghosts and aliens in the coming Civil War 2."
sundance435
03-29-19, 08:41
Unless you're going to train with it, I don't see the point of a 5.56 pistol as a house gun when you can run 17 or 19 round mags in the 19. Even a 5.56 pistol in a house requires different skills than a handgun. Just me, but I'd get a 17 or 34 with a red dot as a house gun before a 5.56. I think every American, especially with a young boy, NEEDS a 10/22 (or any .22 rifle) and a 12 gauge. You could get one of the Rem 870 combos for versatility.
diving dave
03-29-19, 09:00
I'd say add a decent quality bolt gun, does not have to be a big heavy PRS type . A Ruger scout in 308 would be a hammer for hunting or a good all round purpose rifle, and 308 ammo is everywhere.
To get more action here I should probably have changed the title to "What guns have the right juju to fight ghosts and aliens in the coming Civil War 2."
Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range. ;)
Can't go wrong with a backup set of the same rifle and Glock. Other then that maybe a "pistol" or SBR AR, a good bolt gun is always a plus, and a solid shotgun.
But right off the bat I would say another post and another AR of some type.
SomeOtherGuy
03-29-19, 09:16
If it's purpose-driven, you need to define your purposes. I don't see that, beyond a vague "might hunt with son."
Lacking purpose and assuming you're trying to avoid collecting, I think you should get a 10/22, because literally everyone needs a .22 LR rifle for practice. Beyond that, maybe, maybe, a spare G19, a spare AR-15, and a quality pump 12ga shotgun like Winchester or Remington - ideally a two-barrel combo set for deer and bird hunting. Lacking specific uses, anything else is drifting into collecting. AR pistols are basically range toys.
I'd probably get a second G19 and 5.56 rifle at some point (It could be another identical Sionics or something more basic, like a stock 6920 or something)
For a contingency/survival armory, a decent scoped bolt gun in .308/30-06 etc.. might be a worthwhile addition.
And 10/22s are so cheap, you might as well get one.
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 09:42
The 22 thing. I've owned a bunch and yeah they're fun sometimes if you are at the farm and just want to blast some cans or whatever. I don't consider it really applicable practice or training for AR rifles though. I could see it if you have a 308 Tikka T3 and the comparable 22lr Tikka T1 with identical scopes.
Otherwise 5.56 is easy enough to shoot that practicing with the actual AR makes more sense. I've heard some guys can't afford to buy 5.56 practice ammo so they use a 22 to fill that role. But you're still in it for the cost of the 10/22, optic, probably trigger and stock so figure $500, then ammo. A case of XM193 is like $300.
Five_Point_Five_Six
03-29-19, 09:49
Standardizing isn't such a bad thing, but I think some people make it out to be this vision quest instead of just clearing up space and making things easier for themselves. I'm down to 9mm, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, and .22lr.
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 10:10
Yeah I grew up with a Marlin 60 tube fed 22 and a 336 30-30. The first real gun I actually got before those was a 20ga Rem 1100 for my birthday... maybe 8-10 years old but I don't remember.
I do remember one time shooting skeet with my dad on one of those old throwers when I was little. I was fiddling with the trigger of the 20ga thinking it was on safe I guess while he reloaded the thrower and I accidentally blasted a round nearly hitting him. Thinking that through I can get why semi autos are maybe not the best choice for a kid.
Young kids have a hard time focusing with a semi. I have found a bolt .22 is a better option. I like the Ruger American because the rear of the stock can be switched out to youth size.
Backups for your go to are never a bad idea if you can afford them. If you only have one Glock it's a good time to consider moving to Gen5. I'm a long time multiple Gen3 owner and the Gen5 was meh to me from the specs. But the Gen5 turned out to be more than the sum of a few minor upgrades for me, and available with the really good bold sights from factory.
I think it is always a good idea to have a backup copy of your primary pistol and carbine. Mr. Murphy always shows up at the most inopportune times.
Agree with a .22LR being good for training a youngster. I like the Tikka rifles’ smooth action, balance and factory accuracy. If you plan to get back into hunting then a Tikka T1X for your son and a Tikka in anything 6.5 to .30-06 would be a do-all hunting rifle. I don’t imagine you have terribly long sight lines in the woods there so a compact 1-4x20 or 2-7x33 scope fits nice on the lightweight Tikka.
Just a thought in case you enjoy something different and aren’t likely to be shooting game beyond 150 yds or so is having a .30-30 lever action and a Henry lever action .22LR. Or have one bolt action center fire and one lever action so the two of you can hunt. That is how grew I up; I was shooting the Win 94 while dad had his Savage .30-06. When he hunted with other guys he always took the .30-30 as a backup rifle.
If you plan to get into turkey and/or other bird hunting then a 12 ga shotgun or two.
For keeping things simple, you have it covered well. After a while it seems we have stuff we want to have whether it be for a certain discipline or simple fun. If I would add anything useful wise, maybe a Ruger Scout and a bolt .22. Sometimes I think of selling some things and duplicating certain others. But then at this point in my life, I just get it and shoot it and when I'm tired of it, sell or trade for something else or give it to my son(lucky kid)
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 11:33
Yeah I've owned all sorts of stuff at some point.
Yeah, If I had every gun I ever acquired, it would be amazing. I was under the "never sell a gun" though and a fellow horse trader said it's just a hunk of steel, etc. get what you want. I do agree, simple may be the best option, no sense stressing over what others have, outfitting this, getting a load for that, etc. etc. If I could only follow that!
Seems like you have a reasonable list.
I need to simplify. I'm 110% tired of ARs and Glocks and Tactical Timmy training and bickering on the internet about how you'll get killed if you don't have a safe full of SR25s and EDC a brace of red-dotted G19s AIWB. Whatever. If that's your jam, then you do you. Me, I'm orders of magnitude more likely to die from a stress induced stroke than from terrorists or criminals. These days, when I have time for shooting, I just wanna go out by myself to blow off some steam and have fun, not pretend I'm some operator operating operationally while I run drills for 4 hours in the rain so I won't "die on the streets". If the market recovers in the runup to 2020, I might unload everything except my lever guns, revolvers, a 10/22, and a Garand. We'll see...
OP, seems you are on the right track, have fun and stay focused. Enjoy the time with the family and don't let it(gun world) consume you. I do want to pick up some levers for fun, like a bolt gun, they have soul.
I still laugh about the time when a buddy and I had a planned range trip. Well, it was raining that morning and I called him to say I'm not going. After some cuss words and being accused of not being a man, I explained that if I wasn't getting paid, I'm not going out in the rain unless I want to. I've done it, have a rain suit but nowadays, same thing, don't need to prove a thing.
Talking about simple, A buddy just sold everything but he and his wife's hog gun(.45 something) and his G48 and his wife's G43X. Got tired of it all.
grizzlyblake
03-29-19, 12:59
Yep. I've been there and just got over it a while back. No interest in having stuff just to have now.
My deal with this is keeping life simple and basic without extra drama.
I get where you are at. I am actively shopping FFL's that might be interested in buying everything in one fell swoop and be done. I won't bore you with any details more than that.
But, I refuse to be unarmed.
End game for me:
2 AR's.
2 G17's
2 G26's
10/22
Done.
IF, it were me in your position, here's what I'd do.
You're set with the Glocks on centerfire pistols.
I don't like 5.56 pistols, too "blasty" for HD without a can. I wouldn't sell it though. I'd order 2 things for it. First, and 8-10" .300BLK upper for HD. No need to get crazy on it, just a quality, dependable upper and top it with a basic Primary Arms or Holosun RDS (or Vortex Venom reflex). Bonus points that the short .300BLK should be good for deep woods deer hunting, so long as it meets local game law requirements.
Then I'd order a CMMG .22 conversion unit for the current 5.56 upper and use that in lieu of a 10/22 or 15/22. Either that or sell it and get a 15/22, but the 5.56 upper has added versatility in an ammo shortage and could always be put on an inexpensive lower build later for an extra gun.
I think every "shooter" needs a rimfire pistol and the best two for the money are a Buckmark or Ruger Mk IV. It's a great woods gun for pests or varmints, plus it's a great trainer for inexpensive practice and the best for teaching new shooters. Get one with a rail or the ability to add a rail for a red dot (personal preference).
Last but not least, I think it's always a good idea to have a shotgun if you're a hunter at all, plus it's great if you need to hand the HD long gun/AR pistol off to the wife and need something with a bit more punch than a 9mm pistol. Their versatility is unmatched as you can use them for HD, small game, medium and even large game. Unless you want to spend a lot of time mastering it, I'd recommend a gas operated semi-auto with a short barrel and screw in chokes. There are several really nice Turkish semi's on the market now that cost the same or less than U.S. made pumps. While I prefer a 21" barrel for the most versatility, I recently picked up a used, camo finished Tri-Star Raptor with a 26" barrel and MobilChokes for a paltry $150. I actually like it better than my Remington 1100. :)
So an upper, .22 conversion, .22 pistol and semi 12ga or 20ga shotgun should cover pretty much anything you'd ever want or need in your neck of the woods except one thing. When your son is ready to train I'd pick up a single shot Cricket .22lr to start him on the journey to safe firearms handling and marksmanship. :)
vicious_cb
03-29-19, 14:06
Listen, Learn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbSXE55k_P4&t=
ramairthree
03-29-19, 14:29
If I was going 100% from nothing right now,
I would-
Find a Beretta 92, Glock 19, or Glock 17 used like new and do a face to face cash buy.
There are a ton of Berettas and Glocks out there. I would buy magazines with cash. If I ended up with a 17 I would cut it down to take 19 mags.
Find a Colt 6920 and do same cash buy.
Maybe a mossberg 500 and 10/22 or lever action 22 as well.
Here's what I have at this moment.
1) G43 - My wife's AIWB EDC and her nightstand gun.
2) Gen 4 G19 - My EDC and nightstand gun. I've carried this gun AIWB everywhere daily for probably 5+ years now. Streamlight Pro-tac 1L in my pocket during the day, Surefire G2X on the nightstand. Years of gym means I have no problem concealing while dressing normally.
3) Sionics Patrol 3E - Medium contour barrel, two-stage trigger, Vortex Viper PST II 1-6x in a non-QD mount, waiting on Arisaka 300s to come back in stock. Might do offset MBUS Pros, still undecided.
*This is my general purpose outside rifle
Sounds like you've already got this figured out....
If it was me...
Does your wife shoot rifles at all? If so, spec out something she likes and get her that.
Then buy seconds of everything (ie, a pair of rifle and pistol per person).
Figure out how many mags you're comfortable with long term per gun and buy whatever amount you don't already have to fill that number, buy spare parts, buy ammo.
Whatever accessories/gear you need to use your guns- holsters, mag carriers, other gear, whatever, have whatever setup you think you want/need per each gun (or set of guns).
If was to add any other guns to the list, some sort of .22s - great trainers, and plain fun to shoot especially on days you want to shoot something but don't really feel like getting serious with the big guns.
If you've got nowhere to shoot a .308/other larger caliber, there's no point bothering spending the money aside from contingency planning or hunting
Personally, if I'm allowed to own a modern rifle and handgun I see no point in bothering with shotguns. JMHO
Therefore the money saved in these two areas will pay for other things.
If at all possible, some solid conversation without emotion and fantasy would be greatly appreciated.
Right now I would focus on you and your wife, your son is not even a year old yet, who knows what firearms designs might be coming in the next decade. In any event, much of what I would think is nice to have is going to be good to pass down to your son.
I agree with what others have posted about the pistol for home defense, but that is largely a matter of personal viewpoint - You stated without emotion and fantasy, absent that, I think the pistol is probably the best overall defense for anything but a home invasion by an armored pro-crew.
What are the firearms for? Does you wife enjoy shooting? How far is it to the range? How often would you both go out? etc.
My suggestions would be:
1) A larger Glock for your wife to shoot with - not to replace the G43, for range fun and, if needed, home defense;
2) .22 pistols for both you and your wife - or at least .22 conversions for your Glocks; (ETA - you are going to be able to get .22 pistols cheaper than Glock conversions)
3) .22 rifles for both you and your wife - Ruger 10/22's are fine but, Marlin 60's are still good if you don't mind the tube mags;
4) Depending on what your wife wants - either a LW build, or a precision build for her in AR;
5) Dedicated 22 upper(s) or, 22 conversion bolts;
6) 20 gauge shotgun (I would go pump) and multiple barrels - I go with a 21" inch turkey barrel (https://www.opticsplanet.com/rxbl-80062-870-exp-tky-20-21-rs-mt.html) for games/HD and whatever length you (or your wife) want for hunting or other games;
7) same as above in 12 gauge;
8) a bolt gun tailored for the hunting you would be likely to do.
I would focus on the .22 stuff right off, you and you wife can have a lot of good inexpensive fun plinking with .22's, but that is just my experience since my wife early retired from teaching.
6920s, Glock 17/19s. Multiples of each and support materials.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Whatever you want your son to have, buy now.
I’d buy him a quality AR, Glock (17, 19, or 45), 308 or 30-06 bolt gun, quality pump 12 ga, and a good bolt action 22lr. Those guns will cover everything a growing boy needs.
Two is one and one is none.
Double up on the glock 19 and another AR15 with good parts commonality to yours now. A sionics pistol with a good brace may be it. Maybe you want an identical one.
Test then each 500 rounds. Clean them and put them away. Power on with what you’ve been useing.
If you want to hunt I’d probably want a 308. Bolt gun. I wouldn’t spend big here. Good enough is probably good enough.
6) 20 gauge shotgun (I would go pump) and multiple barrels - I go with a 21" inch turkey barrel (https://www.opticsplanet.com/rxbl-80062-870-exp-tky-20-21-rs-mt.html) for games/HD and whatever length you (or your wife) want for hunting or other games;
.
The 20 gauge is one I would probably borrow and see how wife/kid likes first before buying. The reduced size and weight that makes them nice for packing all day hunting can cause them to pack a wallop on felt recoil. Ammo selection not quite as good as 12 gauge and gives a risk of a bore instruction for the 12 gauge too.
Not a thumbs down by any means, just some things to keep in mind for the low excess approach.
Started shooting a long time ago; health issues starting to be a problem. Trying to get back to "normal" activities to the extent I can...
Carried a Ruger Security Six in .357 for most of my career, augmented with a Smith Model 18 in .22. Good combo then, still good. Recently got a Ruger LW Commander to replace a Colt that cracked the alloy frame. Partial to 1911s anyway. It was one fine carry piece.
My go-to .22 pistol is a beater Ruger Standard Auto. Ugly, eminently a fine, fun shooter.
The usual LW Colt lightweight AR with ACOG. S&W 15/22 for fun and practice.Ruger Scout rifle in 7.62; wish it had come along 25 years ago!
Oh, yeah--A Gen 4 Glock 19; although I like BHPs better.
One shotgun, a Savage Model 24, 20 ga. over .22 rifle--with .30-30 liner tube for barrel.
That's basically 60 years' distilled down. It's been fun.
I'll admit I am a bit of a gun snob & been collecting for 30 years in various areas of interest, but one tool I could not live without is an insane accurate 22 where I can hit a quail in the noggin at 50yds 9 times out of 10. This takes really good/expensive ammo to consistently dump ragged holes. Such joy.
Not knowing the OP's area specific needs I'd be inclined to go with a Colt 6720 lightweight carbine and I'd never consider a AR handgun for home defense, especially trying to go that route suppressed.
If the intention is suppressing an AR, I'd go with a 6933 or 6945 factory SBR.
As for handguns, G19s are a solid choice but get a night sights model because standard factory sights are cheap and crappy. But I'd personally still rather roll vintage SIGs simply because I have the most experience with them and I like the rear mounted slide stops.
ARs are probably the only firearm under threat of future legislation. I wouldn't worry about bolt action anythings unless it will fill a required need. Same thing with shotguns. If you plan on hunting, you'll need them. If you want to shoot skeet or long distance target shooting, you'll need them. If not, you probably won't and they will be available in the future.
I agree with others who noted handguns satisfy most home defense needs. Generally your carry gun is your fighting gun because that is probably the one you shoot most. At a minimum I'd recommend are SureFire 300 weapon light and minimum of 6 spare magazines, ideally with 2 loaded ones stored with the handgun when it goes into the nightstand or whatever.
Moose-Knuckle
03-30-19, 02:54
Whatever you want your son to have, buy now.
I was going to post on this but see that you beat me to the punch. You have to think of the future generations as it's only a matter of time before we see more anti-gun legislation.
OP, once you have an AR squirreled away for your son stockpile STANAG mags for it, at this point in time might as well concentrate on thirty round Magpul Gen M3's, some 40's and 20's wouldn't hurt but I would focus on the 30's. If you and your better half plan on any more then repeat the above NOW, 2020 will be here before we know it.
After that I'd opt for redundant AR's for yourself AND the wife as well as G19/G17 and a Conex box worth of mags for them.
Business_Casual
03-30-19, 06:30
I'd probably get a second G19 and 5.56 rifle at some point (It could be another identical Sionics or something more basic, like a stock 6920 or something)
For a contingency/survival armory, a decent scoped bolt gun in .308/30-06 etc.. might be a worthwhile addition.
And 10/22s are so cheap, you might as well get one.
I like to have two identical of each type - one for practice and one for carry or use. That way if my PM is off a bit, the serious wear is only on the practice inventory.
Personally, I’d keep it pretty simple:
Another Glock 9mm - probably a G17, G45, or 19x. These mags could be used in your 19.
A Colt 6920 or 6720 and a good RDS (but hurry before the Colt melts in the box due to outsourced parts...)
A 12 ga semi-auto shotgun. Pumps are fine but today’s SA are very reliable if from a quality manufacturer.
A .308 bolt gun or AR.
Maybe a 10/22.
Then, if were you, I’d start focusing on ammo and mags.
My 2 cents.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
grizzlyblake
03-30-19, 09:43
.....
If you can turn every nut you will encounter with an adjustable wrench, aka "Crescent" why would you buy a set of wrenches? Like you mentioned, leave the emotions out and follow the logical path.
If you can turn every nut you will encounter with an adjustable wrench, aka "Crescent" why would you buy a set of wrenches? Like you mentioned, leave the emotions out and follow the logical path.
Mechanic much? :)
Just in good fun - it was interesting to see what different folks thought, hopefully leaving the fantasy and emotions out.
I don't agree with the no .22 logic, as they are so versatile and fun, but different strokes for different folks.
I have some tools, whoa dude! (Fast Times) The intent was for the guy who may not need any specialized tools and accomplish the common everyday task one encounters. Meaning, one can manage individual responsibilities with basic weaponry.
MountainRaven
03-30-19, 16:48
Listen, Learn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbSXE55k_P4&t=
THIS.
I was just about to post it, in point of fact, but I'm glad someone else has. So let me underline that this is it.
I appreciate all the discussion, but ultimately I think the right answer is to get another AR and G19 to have for whoever else in my house.
I think that’s a good call.
Whatever you want your son to have, buy now.
I’d consider this as a follow on step. I set a side a Sionics Patrol 3 and G19 for my daughter even though it will be long time before she can use either.
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