View Full Version : Twenty Seconds of Film That Will Change the Country
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 10:30
I'm referring to the 20 seconds showing the ultrasound view of an abortion in the new movie UNPLANNED:
https://www.unplannedfilm.com/
We saw the movie this weekend. I do not believe there was a woman in the theater who was not in tears after the scene in question.
The movie is somewhat "Hollywoodized" and tedious in spots, but nonetheless a powerful anti-abortion film.
If this movie doesn't long-term start the ball rolling for abortion to be utterly banned in this country, then nothing else will in my opinion.
Go see it. If you are pro-life, and especially if you are pro-choice.
I'm referring to the 20 seconds showing the ultrasound view of an abortion in the new movie UNPLANNED:
https://www.unplannedfilm.com/
We saw the movie this weekend.
I do not believe there was a woman in the theater who was not in tears after the scene in question.
The movie is somewhat "Hollywoodized" and tedious in spots, but nonetheless a powerful anti-abortion film.
If this movie doesn't long-term start the ball rolling for abortion to be utterly banned in this country, then nothing else will in my opinion.
Go see it. If you are pro-life, and especially if you are pro-choice.
This really falls into the who cares category. It really doesn't matter what you religious beliefs are everyone should shut up and let the individual choose what they want to do. This is a very sensitive topic and traditionally only hypocrites argue the point......on both sides. The Left and Right are both hypocrites when it come to this. And the WORSE part is that the Religious Right are play checkers when they should be playing chess........ Not thinking at all with their opposition of pro choice.
This thread will get closed real quick as there is going to be a bunch of emotional crap thrown into it and no logic at all.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 10:43
This thread will get closed real quick as there is going to be a bunch of emotional crap thrown into it and no logic at all.
Probably true. All I say is "See the Film before you condemn it."
Adrenaline_6
04-01-19, 11:16
This really falls into the who cares category. It really doesn't matter what you religious beliefs are everyone should shut up and let the individual choose what they want to do. This is a very sensitive topic and traditionally only hypocrites argue the point......on both sides. The Left and Right are both hypocrites when it come to this. And the WORSE part is that the Religious Right are play checkers when they should be playing chess........ Not thinking at all with their opposition of pro choice.
This thread will get closed real quick as there is going to be a bunch of emotional crap thrown into it and no logic at all.
I really don't see any logic at all in legally giving a person a choice to kill another human life due to inconvenience or better yet, privacy. No emotion - just logic.
Bah! This film isn’t going to change anything. It will galvanize the pro-life movement...for about a week, then back to business as usual. The pro-life movement is already maximally galvanized. As for me, I don’t need to see this movie.. its sensationalist shock value is wasted on me.
I really don't see any logic at all in legally giving a person a choice to kill another human life due to inconvenience or better yet, privacy. No emotion - just logic.
So you don't support the death penalty? Because there is no logical reason to keep someone in jail for their entire life...... No reason at all except for an emotional one in that it is bad to kill. Be cause it is VERY inconvenient for me to pay for this all of the time.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 11:27
Before this degenerates into bickering I would hope people would actually SEE the movie before commenting....
I'd be interested to see if some people call it nothing but CGI propaganda, or if it causes people to post about their own experiences with Planned Parenthood.
Just sayin....
All this wailing and gnashing of teeth about various big govt interferences in our lives yet some of us cant wait till we can get big govt to interfere in the lives of other citizens over personal beliefs...got it
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All this wailing and gnashing of teeth about various big govt interferences in our lives yet some of us cant wait till we can get big govt to interfere in the lives of other citizens over personal beliefs...got it
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
In for the win. Well said.
All this wailing and gnashing of teeth about various big govt interferences in our lives yet some of us cant wait till we can get big govt to interfere in the lives of other citizens over personal beliefs...got it
Truer words never spoken on this forum. Laws taking away personal choices and freedoms are good? Or bad? Looks like it depends on how it jives with one’s personal beliefs.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 11:36
"See the film before you condemn it."
I don't recall a single person in the film saying one word about outlawing the practice. There are, however, several scenes where the "pro abortion" faction apparently wants to control the narrative all the way through the process. According to the film, "pro choice" doesn't extend to the person about to have the procedure getting all the information about potential health hazards of going through with it.
Most of what's against the film in this thread isn't even in the movie.
"See the film before you condemn it."
grizzlyblake
04-01-19, 11:41
Take the emotion away (I know it's not possible) but equating abortion to just personal beliefs pretty disingenuous.
It is by definition taking a life out of inconvenience. So that should just be the standard.
I realize it's a gradient of the life value of the individuals in question. The mother's life is worth more than the baby so she gets to make the decision to end the baby's life.
That logic should be extended to all of society. Prisoners, welfare recipients, elderly, foster children, terminally ill, etc. should all fall under the choice of their caretaker to end their life.
Telling people with a different view than yours to "shut up" is an interesting way to assert your view as the only "logic" and others are just too emotional for reasoned debate.
Maybe consider setting an example of reasoned debate rather than demeaning the other side as just "religious beliefs".
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 11:46
Other than the sequence I refer to in my first post, the movie for the most part is against the abortion industry, not the concept of abortion in and of itself.
This is a pretty accurate review minus all the histrionics:
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2019/04/01/nolte-unplanned-beats-blacklisting-campaign-with-6-1-million-opening/#
a film that dares to question the ethics of abortion and the industry getting rich off of it
In other words, it's less a political statement against abortion in and of itself and more a criticism of the industry that controls it. Women are carefully groomed to see abortion as their only alternative from the minute they enter the parking lot of the clinic.
"See the movie before you condemn it."
"See the film before you condemn it."
I don't recall a single person in the film saying one word about outlawing the practice. There are, however, several scenes where the "pro abortion" faction apparently wants to control the narrative all the way through the process. According to the film, "pro choice" doesn't extend to the person about to have the procedure getting all the information about potential health hazards of going through with it.
Most of what's against the film in this thread isn't even in the movie.
"See the film before you condemn it."
Not condemning the film, but certainly not going to see it. I don’t go to abortion films no matter which side of this issue is hawking them. What I’m saying is that the assertion that this movie, or any movie, will “change the country” on ANY political or religious agenda is likely to be pretty wide of the mark.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 11:49
Not condemning the film, but certainly not going to see it. I don’t go to abortion films no matter which side of this issue is hawking them. What I’m saying is that the assertion that this movie, or any movie, will “change the country” on ANY political or religious agenda is likely to be pretty wide of the mark.
And yet you haven't seen the movie. Watch the video of the "fetus" trying to get away from the suction device and come back and post that you didn't at least react to seeing that.
I think it will change the country. People who are uninformed about the actual process will (and should be) horrified.
Imagine how you'd feel watching someone tie a dog to a post and then proceed to kill it on camera. Same type of horror.
"See the movie before you condemn it."
Adrenaline_6
04-01-19, 12:28
So you don't support the death penalty? Because there is no logical reason to keep someone in jail for their entire life...... No reason at all except for an emotional one in that it is bad to kill. Be cause it is VERY inconvenient for me to pay for this all of the time.
I do support it. The death penalty is just that...a penalty that was ruled as deserved. Killing an innocent child for convenience is a totally different thing altogether. That child did nothing to deserve it. That's like saying murder and killing someone in self defense is the same thing. Not even close.
There are already enough people in this country.
1/3 of them are on the dole.
When you add government workers etc, this number is more like 1/2.
College graduates cannot get jobs. Student loans and real estate are out of control. Illegals busting in by the millions. Legal immigrants busting in by the millions.
I don't not want anymore people. I do not want anymore land development.
Trump avoided this albatross during his campaign and won the election.
If those liberals want to abort themselves, let them get an abortion.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-01-19, 12:38
This really falls into the who cares category. It really doesn't matter what you religious beliefs are everyone should shut up and let the individual choose what they want to do. This is a very sensitive topic and traditionally only hypocrites argue the point......on both sides. The Left and Right are both hypocrites when it come to this. And the WORSE part is that the Religious Right are play checkers when they should be playing chess........ Not thinking at all with their opposition of pro choice.
This thread will get closed real quick as there is going to be a bunch of emotional crap thrown into it and no logic at all.
Speaking of emotional crap......
You basically said everyone should shut up if they don't agree with you and everyone is a hypocrite that debates the topic at all. Seems legit bro.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-01-19, 12:40
There are already enough people in this country.
1/3 of them are on the dole.
When you add government workers etc, this number is more like 1/2.
Maybe we should fire back up forced sterilization? A one child policy? Death penalty for the handicapped? I mean if we have too many people we may as well nip this in the ass and not rely just on abortion.
http://i.imgur.com/yVH4KY7.jpg (https://imgur.com/yVH4KY7)
Speaking of emotional crap......
You basically said everyone should shut up if they don't agree with you and everyone is a hypocrite that debates the topic at all. Seems legit bro.
The basically you can't read. I said that people will respond with emotional crapbecause they will not think rationally about this topic....... Thanks for proving my point. I don't care at all what people think. As long as they keep it to themselves.
Here is my point. Since you ASSUME that I said that you have to agree with me...... What side of the argument do you think I am on? As I have not actually said either way. My point is that those that do pick a side and try to defend it will not actually use any type of logical argument.
Have a nice day and tank you for you assistance.
Maybe we should fire back up forced sterilization? A one child policy? Death penalty for the handicapped? I mean if we have too many people we may as well nip this in the ass and not rely just on abortion.
If you are on welfare you should be drug tested and sterilized.
My locale has some of the highest property taxes per square foot of house in the nation.
Why is that?
Its because of all the illegals working the meat packing plants along with a bunch of white trash meth addicts breeding children, that don't pay any taxes to offset the cost of their family on the system.
Just an FYI for those that don't know the history of Title 10 Funding:
The Title X Family Planning Program, officially known as Public Law 91-572 or "Population Research and Voluntary Family Planning Programs", was enacted under President Richard Nixon in 1970 as part of the Public Health Service Act. Title X is the only federal grant program dedicated solely to providing individuals with comprehensive family planning and related preventive health services. Title X is legally designed to prioritize the needs of low-income families or uninsured people (including those who are not eligible for Medicaid) who might not otherwise have access to these health care services. These services are provided to low-income and uninsured individuals at reduced or no cost.[1] Its overall purpose is to promote positive birth outcomes and healthy families by allowing individuals to decide the number and spacing of their children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_X
It was actually the creation of the Conservatives in Congress and the Conservative President. It was in fact a plan to retaliate to the liberal Welfare Act that was passed by the Johnson Administration a few years before. The Money that the US Government uses to pay for abortions and birth control for the general public was created by the Conservative/ Religious Right.
Again people should know what they are arguing about..... I am sure that both sides would act in disbelief in knowing who started this whole thing...... and especially the WHY.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 13:10
Amazing how almost zero posts in this thread other than mine have anything to do with what's actually in the movie.
"See the film before you condemn it'"
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/ae84da94d7f8c6a815de043b244b5aee.jpg
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I do support it. The death penalty is just that...a penalty that was ruled as deserved. Killing an innocent child for convenience is a totally different thing altogether. That child did nothing to deserve it. That's like saying murder and killing someone in self defense is the same thing. Not even close.
Thank you, saved me some typing.
And yet you haven't seen the movie. Watch the video of the "fetus" trying to get away from the suction device and come back and post that you didn't at least react to seeing that.
I think it will change the country. People who are uninformed about the actual process will (and should be) horrified.
Imagine how you'd feel watching someone tie a dog to a post and then proceed to kill it on camera. Same type of horror.
"See the movie before you condemn it."
I see that they have succeeded in horrifying you with their film. Mission accomplished! Your strident outrage exemplifies the entire point of making the film. You were their target audience and they hit the mark. But over the years there has never been a shortage of horrifying messages and images from anti-abortion groups, and they’ve been published for years. You must know that, in the scheme of things, nothing will change because of this film. It’s just more propaganda in a field littered with propaganda that’s been accumulating over almost a century. As it always has... it will further horrify the true faithful and won’t affect the beliefs of those committed to pro-choice.
You know this could all be avoided if people were more judicious in their fornication, steadfast in their prophylaxis, and chicks carried handguns and plan b everywhere.
Otherwise you are asking me to care about some kid who will probably be another criminal or something.
Earth is full. Thanks for playing.
For context, I have worked security/protests at an abortion clinic before.
IMO the right people were having abortions.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 13:53
I see that they have succeeded in horrifying you with their film. Mission accomplished! Your strident outrage exemplifies the entire point of making the film. You were their target audience and they hit the mark. But over the years there has never been a shortage of horrifying messages and images from anti-abortion groups, and they’ve been published for years. You must know that, in the scheme of things, nothing will change because of this film. It’s just more propaganda in a field littered with propaganda that’s been accumulating over almost a century. As it always has... it will further horrify the true faithful and won’t affect the beliefs of those committed to pro-choice.
"See the film before you condemn it." Parts are difficult to watch. BTW I have zero outrage. I'm very objective on this subject. I didn't want to see the film but my girlfriend dragged me to it. After watching it I had to concede that maybe the pro-abortion types have done such a good job of foisting their propaganda on the public that people will think they know all about the subject before watching the movie. That was certainly true of me. I was kind of "meh" about the subject until yesterday. I'm not ready to become an activist, but I do believe women are being lied to.
so more black babies are killed in NY then born ?
we have killed more babies by so called choice as some on the left say its empowering ! ironic as that is what dictators feel about killing people as do mass murderers etc..
history will be interesting to read since more babies have been killed then all war added up
so called justified ?
how about you start a life you are not allowed to end it
let's use a heart beat for the start maybe ? since nobody can live without a heart beat so the moment the heart starts beating you will be charged with murder and see how that changes things
and then let's turn that roll around to the children that are born can decide to end the heart beat of the parents if they felt they did not do a proper job raising them ? or maybe near end of life if the parents need care we just say leave it up to the kids to decide the fate ?
I’d glady sacrifice 10 einsteins to prevent 10,000 Dillingers
grizzlyblake
04-01-19, 14:12
so more black babies are killed in NY then born ?
we have killed more babies by so called choice as some on the left say its empowering ! ironic as that is what dictators feel about killing people as do mass murderers etc..
history will be interesting to read since more babies have been killed then all war added up
so called justified ?
how about you start a life you are not allowed to end it
let's use a heart beat for the start maybe ? since nobody can live without a heart beat so the moment the heart starts beating you will be charged with murder and see how that changes things
and then let's turn that roll around to the children that are born can decide to end the heart beat of the parents if they felt they did not do a proper job raising them ? or maybe near end of life if the parents need care we just say leave it up to the kids to decide the fate ?
Your post is a little choppy but I think I agree with your premise.
If we are all going to agree that ending other lives out of convenience is going to be acceptable I don't see that it makes any sense to just stop at unborn babies.
It makes much more logical sense to end the lives of all the people on welfare or unemployment, retirees living off social security, handicapped/special needs people, folks on life support in the ICU, etc.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 14:12
I’d glady sacrifice 10 einsteins to prevent 10,000 Dillingers
When I was in college I actually had to argue in favor of abortion as part of a debating class. My argument was that since Charles Manson had pretty much been unwanted his entire life, the lives of Sharon Tate and the other victims of the Manson family could have been saved had Charles Manson been aborted. I won the debate.
Later on, I decided my entire argument was fallacious because you don't know at a young age that a new child is going to grow up to be a monster. What if Charles Manson had gone on to discover the cure for some major disease instead of....becoming a major disease?
It's a tough argument but the more I think about it the whole abortion thing gets to eugenics, deciding who will live and die, assisted suicide for the elderly, culling the herd of anyone "inferior", and a whole can of worms of people playing God.
Supposedly, I don't know if it's true or not, but Margaret Sanger started Planned Parenthood to make sure the populations of "people of color" didn't grow. Whether that's true or not I think it has become not only an aspect of "family planning" but also "population planning".
By the current rationale for abortion, I should be able to force the next drunk or drug addled idiot off the road,
shoot them in the head as long as I leave a note on the windshield identifying myself and testifying that they
inconvenienced me.
I'm cool with that .
... but I do believe women are being lied to.I have known many women that have had abortions, maybe hundreds. I disagree with that premise, which the film makers have manipulated you into believing and was the point of making the film in the first place. But I do respect your passion and agree that the whole abortion issue is fraught with terrible ethical dilemmas.
When I was in college I actually had to argue in favor of abortion as part of a debating class. My argument was that since Charles Manson had pretty much been unwanted his entire life, the lives of Sharon Tate and the other victims of the Manson family could have been saved had Charles Manson been aborted. I won the debate.
Later on, I decided my entire argument was fallacious because you don't know at a young age that a new child is going to grow up to be a monster. What if Charles Manson had gone on to discover the cure for some major disease instead of....becoming a major disease?
It's a tough argument but the more I think about it the whole abortion thing gets to eugenics, deciding who will live and die, assisted suicide for the elderly, culling the herd of anyone "inferior", and a whole can of worms of people playing God.
Supposedly, I don't know if it's true or not, but Margaret Sanger started Planned Parenthood to make sure the populations of "people of color" didn't grow. Whether that's true or not I think it has become not only an aspect of "family planning" but also "population planning".
The law of averages pretty much states there will be more chaff than wheat.
Didn’t you say you policed for 8 years?
Kinda naive with that background.
Single moms aren’t going away any time soon.
Neither are little thuggies.
I would argue there aren’t enough abortions.
Really, honestly, and truly it takes two to tango.
And nobody wants to clean up after the party so may as well cancel the ball
I'm referring to the 20 seconds showing the ultrasound view of an abortion in the new movie UNPLANNED:
https://www.unplannedfilm.com/
We saw the movie this weekend. I do not believe there was a woman in the theater who was not in tears after the scene in question.
The movie is somewhat "Hollywoodized" and tedious in spots, but nonetheless a powerful anti-abortion film.
If this movie doesn't long-term start the ball rolling for abortion to be utterly banned in this country, then nothing else will in my opinion.
Go see it. If you are pro-life, and especially if you are pro-choice.
My feeling on that is, if a movie can alter a person's views on a topic that foundational, their views are not based on a solid foundation. There's no movie that would alter my views on such a topic.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 14:34
Didn’t you say you policed for 8 years?
Kinda naive with that background.
Not really. Just because someone commits a certain crime doesn't make them 100% bad. Now I'll agree child molesters, rapists and serial killers are scum that aren't worth a bullet to put them out of society's misery, but it is possible for a person to do a bad thing or two but still have some redeeming qualities. I can't stand gangbangers either, but it is possible for a person to get caught up in something before they know what's happening. They get stuck in a life and can't get out even though they want to. Then there are those that get tempted one time and get caught. Maybe if they had it to do over again they would have resisted the urge to do something illegal that they thought would make them a ton of money or something. I've met very few perps that were totally unredeemably evil, but then again this was a backwater area for a long time.
grizzlyblake
04-01-19, 14:35
By the current rationale for abortion, I should be able to force the next drunk or drug addled idiot off the road,
shoot them in the head as long as I leave a note on the windshield identifying myself and testifying that they
inconvenienced me.
I'm cool with that .
Yeah, or if your 13 year old son is being an idiot skipping school and slinging stolen Perocet. Sorry kiddo, muh rights.
I'm really 'bout it for all the geriatrics on social security and pretty much everyone on food stamps. Let's go.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-01-19, 14:40
The basically you can't read. I said that people will respond with emotional crapbecause they will not think rationally about this topic....... Thanks for proving my point. I don't care at all what people think. As long as they keep it to themselves.
Here is my point. Since you ASSUME that I said that you have to agree with me...... What side of the argument do you think I am on? As I have not actually said either way. My point is that those that do pick a side and try to defend it will not actually use any type of logical argument.
Have a nice day and tank you for you assistance.
You are posting with enough emotion to gain free entry into any SJW group of your choice.
I didn’t prove anything and never mentioned what “side” I though you are on nor what “side” I was on. You literally told everyone to shut up that didn’t agree with you( as in choosing to argue a point or comment on the subject. ).
Have a nice day as well.
This thread is destined for a lock unfortunately considering 95% of what has been posted has nothing to do with the OP.
Truer words never spoken on this forum. Laws taking away personal choices and freedoms are good? Or bad? Looks like it depends on how it jives with one’s personal beliefs.
Agreed. It also seems to be understood how such things can and do lead to a slippery slope, unless it jibes with with one’s personal beliefs then there does not appear to be any fear of a slippery slope. We who support the 2A realize a ban on bump stocks impacts essentially no one beyond some range wanna be types who want to waste ammo, but we know instinctively that it starts with bump stocks and continues on until you need a license for a slingshot. Anti gunners of course think we're just paranoid and it's ridiculous to worry about. Point being, if it jibes with personal beliefs, there's often a blind spot in terms of seeing the possible directions such things can, and likely will, go.
Two, the reasons pro choice factions/people fight any changes at all, some which may be warranted, is the same reason we fight a bump stock ban, because we know that for many, there is not middle ground to be found and the goal is ultimately to get all guns out of the hands of the law abiding citizen. So, knowing the goal at all times for those who want abortion banned is not to find any middle ground but get it banned, means those who are pro choice will fight any and every step to reduce access of any kind.
If i actually thought the Brady Bunch or Moms Without Common Sense et all actually believed in the 2A but would stop at say bump stocks, or even ARs, I wouldn't be as concerned with bump stocks being banned truth be told.
That's best non triggering parallel I can think of.
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 14:43
Watch the "fetus" trying to get away from the suction device, then come back and tell us your impression.
Had that been a puppy I guarantee 75% of the posts in this thread would not have been typed.
I have known many women that have had abortions, maybe hundreds. I disagree with that premise, which the film makers have manipulated you into believing and was the point of making the film in the first place. But I do respect your passion and agree that the whole abortion issue is fraught with terrible ethical dilemmas.
As do I. One of the reasons I had so much respect for Dr. Koop was he was unwilling to put his personal beliefs ahead of science. He was personally anti abortion, but when the administration told him to support claims that having an abortion put women at great medical or psych risk, he refused, because that's not supported by the science. He's a man I had to respect for several reasons, but that he always refused to allow personal views to dictate his positions if the science didn't support it, and that's what made him a great SG:
"Reagan, however, drafted Dr. Koop into the abortion debate toward the end of his second term when he asked the Surgeon General to write a report about the psychological effects of abortion on women. Reagan, who much to the chagrin of his far-right followers had done little to restrict access abortion domestically during his presidency (though he did huge damage to women’s health internationally) believed this might be an argument that—if documented—could be used to limit abortion access. Koop was reluctant to take on the task because it was too political. In his autobiography, Dr. Koop: The Memoirs of America’s Family Doctor, he noted that he was naïve at the time and failed to understand that Reagan expected him to oppose abortion zealously.
He did not. Instead he interviewed experts and activists on both sides and found that even more so than in the debate over AIDS, anti-choicers skewed science to fit their point of view. After doing the research, he concluded that there: “was no unbiased, rigorous scientific research on the effects of abortion on women’s health that could serve as the basis for a Surgeon General’s report on the issue.”
https://rewire.news/article/2013/02/28/c-everett-koop-the-surgeon-general-who-put-science-before-personal-ideology/
Not really. Just because someone commits a certain crime doesn't make them 100% bad. Now I'll agree child molesters, rapists and serial killers are scum that aren't worth a bullet to put them out of society's misery, but it is possible for a person to do a bad thing or two but still have some redeeming qualities. I can't stand gangbangers either, but it is possible for a person to get caught up in something before they know what's happening. They get stuck in a life and can't get out even though they want to. Then there are those that get tempted one time and get caught. Maybe if they had it to do over again they would have resisted the urge to do something illegal that they thought would make them a ton of money or something. I've met very few perps that were totally unredeemably evil, but then again this was a backwater area for a long time.
Cry me a river. This is the best country with free basic education and free breakfast lunch and who knows one day even dinner at school. The prisons are packed and that’s not even for paper crimes.
If it is that hard not to steal then mama should have swallowed them. This isn’t playing hooky.
This is 15 yo chomos and home invaders. F em and everyone who looks like em
grizzlyblake
04-01-19, 15:14
So I was going to try to make a point about how the abortion thing is emotional because it's babies... I was googling some pics of cute coyote pups and was going to make the point that they grow up into nuisance killers.
Then I happened across a forum of taxidermy enthusiasts posting photos of dead skinned out baby coyote pup bodies that they were putting into cute poses.
Basically the right answer is that the entire planet Earth needs to be aborted. Humans are just totally f'd up as a whole.
So I was going to try to make a point about how the abortion thing is emotional because it's babies... I was googling some pics of cute coyote pups and was going to make the point that they grow up into nuisance killers.
Then I happened across a forum of taxidermy enthusiasts posting photos of dead skinned out baby coyote pup bodies that they were putting into cute poses.
Basically the right answer is that the entire planet Earth needs to be aborted. Humans are just totally f'd up as a whole.
My take is, less than 1% of humanity has set the bar at making us look like a noble intelligent species of thinkers, and doers, and such, while the other 99% have been generally nasty aggressive greedy chit heads who will destroy anything or anyone for leg up. I like my dog ...
I wonder how many times they videod this before finally one of the fetuses appeared to be attempting to escape. Kinda like a jesus shaped cracker that fell into the lap of pro-lifers
This fussing over other peoples lives and choices is the epitomy of a 1st world problem. We need an huge influx of actual man eating predators in this world to occupy peoples apparent excess of worry.
Would also do wonders for our 2nd amendment problems... and many others
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Watch the "fetus" trying to get away from the suction device, then come back and tell us your impression.
Had that been a puppy I guarantee 75% of the posts in this thread would not have been typed.
Boy, they really knew what buttons to push with you.
One way or another the only solution here involves crucifixions.
Have too many thugass kids?
Crucifixion time, Bebe.
Rape a chick?
On the Cross, Applesauce
Screw your daughter?
Three nails and some Alabama Pine.
Just saying
Doc Safari
04-01-19, 17:34
Boy, they really knew what buttons to push with you.
No buttons. I'm against abortion but it usually elicits a big yawn from me. Like I said I didn't even really want to see the movie. Literally I think no one but me has seen the movie yet, but everyone's an SME. I was hoping for comments on the movie and not everyone's ingrained opinion on the whole ball of wax. Guess I should have known this cannot be discussed intelligently without people getting upset. I looked at it fairly objectively. "Convince me", was my attitude, and I guess the movie did its job because there were things I didn't know or care about, and now it's hard for me to look at this as just a form of birth control.
I wanted to know if people thought the sequence in question was just CGI, or if people think it's a real sonogram. I wanted to know if people thought the main character was somewhat of an airhead given it took her so long to actually find out what was going on at the clinic she managed.
Just some things I thought could be brought up.
Instead no one is discussing the movie for the most part (a few exceptions).
I'm really 'bout it for all the geriatrics on social security and pretty much everyone on food stamps. Let's go.
Let's see how you feel in 40 years.
Straight Shooter
04-01-19, 21:54
We will ALL stand before Almighty God one day- hopefully very soon.
And its gonna flat out SUCK for some who have posted here.
And you'll deserve it.
grizzlyblake
04-01-19, 22:10
Let's see how you feel in 40 years.
You seriously can't see the sarcasm in my posts? The entire purpose of making those outlandish statements was to show how ridiculous the pro abortion argument is when the basis is that it's okay to terminate life because that life is an inconvenience to others.
I error on the side of liberty in matters of grey areas or what I may not fully understand. I also error on the side of life in such matters.
What people consider to be, or not to be “life” or just “cells” is of no bearing, what’s right is right and wrong is wrong.
Perception and opinion could articulate why any “thing” at any “stage” is justified as life and deserves rights a such or is just a slump of cells and doesn’t deserve rights as such.
I will not terminate a life without a legitimate reason or cause, and those circumstances are very few and far between. If others choose to do so, even if they justify the act by choosing to perceive a life as a clump if cells; it is sad and wrong. I WILL NEVER be complicit in these actions nor will I be complacent in allowing them.
To choose the fate of even a “clump of cells” that will ultimately become a life, is not a choice that is mine without consequence, nor should it be.
Either it’s okay to kill at will without responsibility, or it is not.
We cannot say for sure without a reasonable doubt- what constitutes a life versus “not quite a life yet”. So we should error on the side of life. Error on the side of liberty and what is right and just.
I care and love too much to have even a slight possibility of being responsible or complicit with murder of an innocent human.
I care and love too much to possibly extinguish a life that could have been.
If you see things differently, I don’t really understand, but I feel slightly sorry for you.
Truer words never spoken on this forum. Laws taking away personal choices and freedoms are good? Or bad? Looks like it depends on how it jives with one’s personal beliefs.
We made the choice when we performed Coitus,no? How about the choice we make to take drugs or alcohol.Should I feel bad for a tweeker or a junkie or an Alky they made a personal choice didn't they?
The movie will, unfortunately, not change anyone's mind.
There is no one "on the fence" - people either believe that killing an unborn child is murder or they don't and the folks that believe in abortion won't be watching the movie.
My take:
Abortion to end an unwanted pregnancy is stupid now that we know how pregnancy happens and have birth control and the "plan B" pill that can be taken after the act has happened.
I would be happy to see all forms of birth control be free to any woman or girl in the US (including minors without parental consent or knowledge). The idea of waiting until the child begins to develop before terminating the pregnancy in 2019 is ludicrous.
I can understand there are times when abortion is the solution, but casually killing the unborn for the convenience of the mother is a hard sell with me.
Andy
P.S. I'm not interested in watching the movie.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-02-19, 07:56
The idea of waiting until the child begins to develop before terminating the pregnancy in 2019 is ludicrous.
This. And supporting late term abortions when the child could survive outside the womb is even more ludicrous and in my opinion sick.
All life is sacred
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/pilotonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/b9/9b9150c3-4ccf-5cbd-9393-7c299efd13c7/58913c79db806.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675
Every. Last. One.
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gang-member-gun-stealing-backpack-girl-27639990.jpg
Abortion is morally wrong and all babies must be born regardless of environment and/or economic status
https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2017/08/10/GANG_GROUP.JPG.jpg
So keep voting Republican and paying your taxes. A woman has a duty to bear a child regardless of her means
http://www.firststeps2urbanoutreach.com/photos/Professional Training Programs/Picture1.jpg?0.7915902292884178
Adrenaline_6
04-02-19, 08:23
^ I'm surprised because you usually are on the "deeper" side of things. This outlook is about as shallow as it gets though.
This thread is fascinating to me because we as a forum really have a diverse view on this topic. Many other topics the forum is just an echo chamber.
It’s a tricky one. I even fall on different lines here. Recently in a debate with my batshit crazy lib step mother I did some research.
Interestingly like 90% of abortions are quite early on, like 100 a year are third term. Morally I’d put first trimester chemical abortion on the lines of shop lifting.
I’m against abortion in second trimester not for medical reasons. Real ones do exist in my mind.
I’m all out against third trimester abortions. My research showed no doctor can state a medical reason for third trimester abortion, there just are not any. Either the issue is seen second trimester, or the baby can be delivered early.
My wife and I did not ‘plan’ our first child or the second she pregnant with now. But you know what we knew what we were doing. We knew our birth control methods were marginal. We never considered her taking an abortion pill. The idea was disgusting to us. It was our responsibility. After this child we’ll practivce real birth control. I think the wife will get her tubes tied. This is a little unfair as we are married and love our son and are so excited about our next child. Moral of the story is emasculate conception is for fiction books. There is no mystery how you get pregnant.
But.... quite honestly I don’t want all people to follow in my foot steps. There are lots of people who get pregnant accidentally or just because they are sloppy and I don’t want them to keep it. Why? Because those kids will ultimately lower the living standards of my children.
The statistics speak for them selves. We, forum members here and people like us are not having abortions.
When I read in NYC ghettos there are 1100 abortions for every 1000 live births I think to myself ‘omg imagine the ghettos with a more than double reproduction rate than now’ imagine the crime, imagine the cost. F that, I pay taxes. No thank you.
I firmly believe all life is not equal. How can you say the drug dealer who killed a kid in drive by is of the same value Thomas Edison, as my child’s pediatrician? As any one who adds to society.
In this world we have makers and takers. As a maker I don’t want to support takers. As a maker I don’t want the world over run by takers.
Good people don’t kill thier babies, bad people do. Let the bad people kill themselves. I’m not trying to fill the world with them.
And lastly I don’t know if anyone has looked at world population numbers recently, but’s it’s not sustainable. Humans are a parasite killing our host by over consumption of resources. If we are a smart breed, we’ll need to decide to keep our own numbers in check. Only people who really want kids having kids is a great start.
^ I'm surprised because you usually are on the "deeper" side of things. This outlook is about as shallow as it gets though.
I try to keep my idealism. My optimism. My faith.
There are diamonds in the rough. Kids who forge their own moral compass of decency.
But they are in the very small minority.
You dont know what it is like to try, and try, and try, and try and nothing seems to work.
So you grow cold. You appreciate the diamonds but really...
its just easier to burn the coal and start over.
If you dont think I fight with my faith....I do.
We will ALL stand before Almighty God one day- hopefully very soon.
And its gonna flat out SUCK for some who have posted here.
And you'll deserve it.
With that comment, I'd hope a thread lock was imminent.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-02-19, 08:43
With that comment, I'd hope a thread lock was imminent.
Triggered?
Whiskey_Bravo
04-02-19, 08:43
double tap
Adrenaline_6
04-02-19, 08:47
I try to keep my idealism. My optimism. My faith.
There are diamonds in the rough. Kids who forge their own moral compass of decency.
But they are in the very small minority.
You dont know what it is like to try, and try, and try, and try and nothing seems to work.
So you grow cold. You appreciate the diamonds but really...
its just easier to burn the coal and start over.
If you dont think I fight with my faith....I do.
I get it man. I do. I fight with it myself, but I try not to give in as best I can.
With that comment, I'd hope a thread lock was imminent.
Why? Just because you don't like religion, it doesn't warrant a thread lock, just like you posting something anti religion doesn't. As long as people stay cordial for the most part, deal with the difference of opinion and move on with mutual respect. "Silencing the opposition" is what the the "others" do.
As far as the film goes.. I would watch it, just to see if I learn anything I didn't know and make a judgement on it from there.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-02-19, 08:48
All life is sacred
Every. Last. One.
Abortion is morally wrong and all babies must be born regardless of environment and/or economic status
So keep voting Republican and paying your taxes. A woman has a duty to bear a child regardless of her means
While I guess I see the point you are making it is a little disturbing. We should decide abortions based on economic status? If we decided to abort every baby in history that the mother/family didn't have the "means" to raise at the time of pregnancy I have a feeling a lot of great people in history would never have existed.
We should all be working to reduce the number of abortions no matter if you agree with the right to choice or are pro life. They should be rare considering how easy it is to avoid pregnancy. There is also plan B. If nothing else abortions after a certain point should never be needed.
Abortion is a poor choice of birth control but who wants to pay for the cost from cradle to grave of the who be daddy doper babies? For decades I worked from 5:30 am to 7:00+ pm as necessary to pay for my family and a better than government school education for my children and I really am unhappy about being forced to pay for lazy people.
Doc Safari
04-02-19, 09:02
I actually can see a justification for abortion to save the life of the mother but that's about it. Even in the case of rape it's not the child's fault for being conceived.
That oughta get about a hundred angry responses.
you know what. lets take religion, reality, and feelings out of it for a minute.
It's a 9th Amendment issue. If you want people to respect the 2nd Amendment then you have to be willing to bestow the same respect to all the others
Why? Just because you don't like religion, it doesn't warrant a thread lock, just like you posting something anti religion doesn't. As long as people stay cordial for the most part, deal with the difference of opinion and move on with mutual respect. "Silencing the opposition" is what the the "others" do.
.
What I like/dislike, is irrelevant here. I have never posted something "anti religion" as I actually have some respect for those who have their own beliefs, and expect same in kind, and if i was to post anything remotely to that about Christians, I'd expect either a thread lock or to be told to get by chit together pronto. I'm done with this thread.
Doc Safari
04-02-19, 09:12
you know what. lets take religion, reality, and feelings out of it for a minute.
It's a 9th Amendment issue. If you want people to respect the 2nd Amendment then you have to be willing to bestow the same respect to all the others
But there is no right to murder. If and when abortion is ever redefined as murder then it's not a Constitutional issue.
My take is that if enough of the right people see this movie the anti-abortion crowd is going to gain thousands of members and we may see an end to abortion as a legal medical procedure in our lifetime.
BEFORE YOU COMMENT: Please see the movie.
Doc Safari
04-02-19, 09:14
What I like/dislike, is irrelevant here. I have never posted something "anti religion" as I actually have some respect for those who have their own beliefs, and expect same in kind, and if i was to post anything remotely to that about Christians, I'd expect either a thread lock or to be told to get by chit together pronto. I'm done with this thread.
The fact that the person who posted the comments you didn't like never aimed them at a specific person I can say that I think you can chalk it up to rhetoric. I think you're overreacting. Perhaps they hit a nerve? I thought the comments were simply provocative in a rhetorical sense and not intending to insult any specific opposition.
But there is no right to murder. If and when abortion is ever redefined as murder then it's not a Constitutional issue.
My take is that if enough of the right people see this movie the anti-abortion crowd is going to gain thousands of members and we may see an end to abortion as a legal medical procedure in our lifetime.
BEFORE YOU COMMENT: Please see the movie.
Im not wasting my time watching a movie I dont care about.
Adrenaline_6
04-02-19, 09:45
What I like/dislike, is irrelevant here. I have never posted something "anti religion" as I actually have some respect for those who have their own beliefs, and expect same in kind, and if i was to post anything remotely to that about Christians, I'd expect either a thread lock or to be told to get by chit together pronto. I'm done with this thread.
Whoa. Everyone is still cool here. You are really the one going off the handle. Some have posted for religious reasons, some not, some are a bit if a hybrid. Nobody is really attacking anyone personally. This is the second time I have seen you "stomp out" of a thread like this, and both times they involved religion. I get it, you don't like it or believe in it. That's your prerogative.
ON aside note, my take is it goes deeper than that because if you actually 100% didn't believe in God, someone posting about "standing before God and sucking when they do" shouldn't bother you one iota, because to you, it is garbage...but in reality, obviously it really does bother you. I am wondering if there is self doubt on your stance and the possibility of being wrong eats at you. I'm not sure, but it doesn't make logical sense to get mad at something someone says is going to happen that you think is a complete lie.
While I guess I see the point you are making it is a little disturbing. We should decide abortions based on economic status? If we decided to abort every baby in history that the mother/family didn't have the "means" to raise at the time of pregnancy I have a feeling a lot of great people in history would never have existed.
"We" are not deciding who should have an abortion or not. "We" are not forcing people to have abortions because of their economic stature. No one is being forced to have abortions.
'They' are choosing to have an abortion. 'We' are not stopping them. There is a huge difference to me there.
My question is when a person has identified they either have no interest in raising a child, why would we force them have those kids they have basically already admitted they will neglect? What are we gaining as a society by forcing these people into our world?
This does not ultimately have to do with economic factors. Its about just not giving a shit about your kids or potential kids.
Poor people get pregnant by mistake all the time. Those who do not believe in abortion carry those children to term and make it work. Its all about those parents attitude. That child has a good chance of being something because their parents care and have amoral compass. Their parents are going to make an effort. They are going to do what it takes.
So really its about caring. Again I don't want people having kids that will not care about them, because those people are not going to raise good kids. They have already established they don't give a shit. F-that. Those unabortated kids will never have a chance because their parents are trash and will raise them to be trash too.
It's also illegal for people of sound mind to commit suicide.
It all boils down to govt telling you what you can and cannot do.
Let's say a person has a disease or malady that is going to kill them. They are going to die. No hail mary. No Christmas Miracle. You are going to die.
Well you dont want to shoot yourself because you dont wanna F up guns for others. You dont want to commit seppuku because you arent that much of a weeb. Your doctor wont give you something to put you down because you live in such a free country.
So ya jump off a cliff. But you are more aerodynamic than ya thought so the fall doesnt kill you. Some smart ass do gooder hero will ensure that it was a marked suicide attempt. Illegal you see. So your black ass WILL be taken into some kind of custody, your last days wont be free, and you die ignominously.
Wee.
Republicans like to tell you how to be born and how to die but like the Left; won't let you be the master of your own fate.
Then they wanna toss religion into it.
I hope abortion stays legal to spite. I SHOULD be able to buy a 249 Para with full featutes but cannot because its for my own good.
Adrenaline_6
04-02-19, 10:00
"We" are not deciding who should have an abortion or not. "We" are not forcing people to have abortions because of their economic stature. No one is being forced to have abortions.
'They' are choosing to have an abortion. 'We' are not stopping them. There is a huge difference to me there.
My question is when a person has identified they either have no interest in raising a child, why would we force them have those kids they have basically already admitted they will neglect? What are we gaining as a society by forcing these people into our world?
This does not ultimately have to do with economic factors. Its about just not giving a shit about your kids or potential kids.
Poor people get pregnant by mistake all the time. Those who do not believe in abortion carry those children to term and make it work. Its all about those parents attitude. That child has a good chance of being something because their parents care and have amoral compass. Their parents are going to make an effort. They are going to do what it takes.
So really its about caring. Again I don't want people having kids that will not care about them, because those people are not going to raise good kids. They have already established they don't give a shit. F-that. Those unabortated kids will never have a chance because their parents are trash and will raise them to be trash too.
Ok, with that point of view, should we just kill old people that nobody cares for anymore? How about some of the mentally challenged and homeless? Some of their families don't care for them either. Not buying it. Like an ealrier post mentioned, we shouldn't be at the abortion phase to begin with. That is the real problem. People tend to be more careless, when they have a "way out". It is human nature.
All life is sacred
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/pilotonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/b9/9b9150c3-4ccf-5cbd-9393-7c299efd13c7/58913c79db806.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C675
Every. Last. One.
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gang-member-gun-stealing-backpack-girl-27639990.jpg
Abortion is morally wrong and all babies must be born regardless of environment and/or economic status
https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2017/08/10/GANG_GROUP.JPG.jpg
So keep voting Republican and paying your taxes. A woman has a duty to bear a child regardless of her means
http://www.firststeps2urbanoutreach.com/photos/Professional Training Programs/Picture1.jpg?0.7915902292884178
You left out the elites that make sure their intended victims don't shoot them in the face.
Ok, with that point of view, should we just kill old people that nobody cares for anymore? How about some of the mentally challenged and homeless? Some of their families don't care for them either. Not buying it. Like an ealrier post mentioned, we shouldn't be at the abortion phase to begin with. That is the real problem. People tend to be more careless, when they have a "way out". It is human nature.
We’re not killing anyone. They are doing it them selves, or to your own unborn child.
Maybe the sick should be allowed to commit suicide. I don’t have a problem there. It is illegal, which is unfortunate.
In some cultures, eskimos being one, suicide of the elderly was very respected. When the elderly were to sick and weak they would walk off into the abyss of the great north and perish, for the good of their tribe. They had spent their time and done their part. I respect that.
You can have less mentally handicapped through abortion. Almost no one in Iceland has Down’s syndrome. Guess how that came to be.
I’m not suggesting killing people. That’s wrong to me. Letting people die? Well that’s nature, or gods work, what ever your belief system is. Personally I don’t see the utility in trying to keep some one here as long as possible if they are not going to be missed.
Let’s take famine some 3rd world country. We can keep feeding them, or the population can settle to a level that there are natural resources to support. Or we can keep feeding them, and never fix the problem by perpetually treating the symptom.
It’s dark I know, but it’s a cold world and nature is cruel. That cruelty does however serve the fittest to their benefit as it removes competition for resources by eliminating the weak.
Adrenaline_6
04-02-19, 11:59
We’re not killing anyone. They are doing it them selves, or to your own unborn child.
Maybe the sick should be allowed to commit suicide. I don’t have a problem there. It is illegal, which is unfortunate.
In some cultures, eskimos being one, suicide of the elderly was very respected. When the elderly were to sick and weak they would walk off into the abyss of the great north and perish, for the good of their tribe. They had spent their time and done their part. I respect that.
You can have less mentally handicapped through abortion. Almost no one in Iceland has Down’s syndrome. Guess how that came to be.
I’m not suggesting killing people. That’s wrong to me. Letting people die? Well that’s nature, or gods work, what ever your belief system is. Personally I don’t see the utility in trying to keep some one here as long as possible if they are not going to be missed.
Let’s take famine some 3rd world country. We can keep feeding them, or the population can settle to a level that there are natural resources to support. Or we can keep feeding them, and never fix the problem by perpetually treating the symptom.
It’s dark I know, but it’s a cold world and nature is cruel. That cruelty does however serve the fittest to their benefit as it removes competition for resources by eliminating the weak.
I get what you are saying, but what it boils down to is you are allowing people to kill an innocent person that has no say in the matter. They aren't choosing anything. Would you allow a person that no longer wants to care for their elderly parents kill their parents? Your still not killing anybody, they are doing it to themsleves.
You seriously can't see the sarcasm in my posts? The entire purpose of making those outlandish statements was to show how ridiculous the pro abortion argument is when the basis is that it's okay to terminate life because that life is an inconvenience to others.
Sorry, I'm not a bright boy.
We’re not killing anyone. They are doing it them selves, or to your own unborn child.
Maybe the sick should be allowed to commit suicide. I don’t have a problem there. It is illegal, which is unfortunate.
In some cultures, eskimos being one, suicide of the elderly was very respected. When the elderly were to sick and weak they would walk off into the abyss of the great north and perish, for the good of their tribe. They had spent their time and done their part. I respect that.
You can have less mentally handicapped through abortion. Almost no one in Iceland has Down’s syndrome. Guess how that came to be.
I’m not suggesting killing people. That’s wrong to me. Letting people die? Well that’s nature, or gods work, what ever your belief system is. Personally I don’t see the utility in trying to keep some one here as long as possible if they are not going to be missed.
Let’s take famine some 3rd world country. We can keep feeding them, or the population can settle to a level that there are natural resources to support. Or we can keep feeding them, and never fix the problem by perpetually treating the symptom.
It’s dark I know, but it’s a cold world and nature is cruel. That cruelty does however serve the fittest to their benefit as it removes competition for resources by eliminating the weak.
As a member of a group that often espouses 'inalienable rights' you seemingly forgot this: We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—
It amuses me to see folks, many with no children, and many who are unmarried, argue about such things.
This thread is fascinating to me because we as a forum really have a diverse view on this topic. Many other topics the forum is just an echo chamber.
It’s a tricky one. I even fall on different lines here. Recently in a debate with my batshit crazy lib step mother I did some research.
Interestingly like 90% of abortions are quite early on, like 100 a year are third term. Morally I’d put first trimester chemical abortion on the lines of shop lifting.
I’m against abortion in second trimester not for medical reasons. Real ones do exist in my mind.
I’m all out against third trimester abortions. My research showed no doctor can state a medical reason for third trimester abortion, there just are not any. Either the issue is seen second trimester, or the baby can be delivered early.
My wife and I did not ‘plan’ our first child or the second she pregnant with now. But you know what we knew what we were doing. We knew our birth control methods were marginal. We never considered her taking an abortion pill. The idea was disgusting to us. It was our responsibility. After this child we’ll practivce real birth control. I think the wife will get her tubes tied. This is a little unfair as we are married and love our son and are so excited about our next child.
Moral of the story is emasculate conception is for fiction books. There is no mystery how you get pregnant.
Immaculate - your spell check screwed up. I would also appreciate that you not make off hand denigrating references to the Bible. 'Immaculate conception is for the Bible' would have worked.
I think the wife will get her tubes tied. Why? Vasectomy is less invasive, and cheaper. Plus, you can sit up and watch if you are tough enough.
Read the crap you posted here and in later posts, reflect upon it and then see if you can draw parallels to world history (trying hard not to use the Nazi word :) )
I think the wife will get her tubes tied. Why? Vasectomy is less invasive, and cheaper. Plus, you can sit up and watch if you are tough enough.
Read the crap you posted here and in later posts, reflect upon it and then see if you can draw parallels to world history (trying hard not to use the Nazi word :) )
Probably need a little thread drift out of the realm of supercilious self-righteousness, so I’ll say that, having done about a thousand of each, tubal wins hand-down over vasectomy from a standpoint of pain, complications, and return to work. The only reason to get a vasectomy is if your wife doesn’t want the tubal. Most do.
Doc Safari
04-02-19, 13:07
Vasectomies are sooooooo 1970's.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-02-19, 13:11
Probably need a little thread drift out of the realm of supercilious self-righteousness, so I’ll say that, having done about a thousand of each, tubal wins hand-down over vasectomy from a standpoint of pain, complications, and return to work. The only reason to get a vasectomy is if your wife doesn’t want the tubal. Most do.
Just from personal experience the vasectomy was not nearly as painless and easy as they made it out to be so my sample of one will concur.
And we criticize politicians for never accomplishing anything. I believe this thread has run it's course.
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