View Full Version : So what do you advise for new owners?
ramairthree
04-04-19, 11:15
Since the big panic a few years back,
A lot of people have been getting into ARs,
(and a pistol) that never had one before.
The trained shooter thread made me think -
I have been recommending
The standard Colt AR (even though I kind of don’t like the company)
A dozen Okay mags or Pmags
Surefire Light, vtac or vcas sling, Aimpoint pro
1000 rounds ammo
Weekend class
Of course four out of five times they end up with a different brand rifle, some funky ass triple point sling, a 40$ red dot, and a Chinese light. (And these are people that can afford the recommendation for one or two days work)
For a pistol I say G19, light, 1000 rounds, dozen mags, weekend class.
If they have any issues with “no safety” I say
Beretta M9a1, Vertec, or 92a1 instead (the world will never run out of Glock or Beretta mags, they shoot slight, etc.)
If they have concerns with forgetting to work the safety but want a safety, I just say XDM because of the grip safety)
I did not like the first gen M&Ps with safety, I have not tried the new gen.
For shotguns, which they invariably must have, I just say Mossberg 500.
I try my best not to advise new owners anymore. Like you said, they're gonna just ignore advise anyway, so it's a waste of my time.
As long as they keep their new HiPoint pointed down range while I'm on the line, Imma just keep my mouth shut, do my thing, and they can let Jesus take the wheel.
I’ve stopped giving blanket purchasing advice to acquaintances; it’s a waste of my time. They’re going to make their own (generally stupid) purchasing decisions regardless of my input.
That said, the guy who says, “Hey, I want to buy a BCM (insert any quality brand here). What do you think?” has my full attention and will get a thoughtful response. That guy is rare, though.
donlapalma
04-04-19, 11:31
Yup. That's pretty much what I suggest from the get-go.
It doesnt matter because 99% dont shoot.
I suggest colt/bcm/DD/lmt/kac.
Pistol: hk/glock/m&p gen2/sig
All these have a track record of being more than reliable and accurate enough for general purpose/hd/sd. They will likely last the rest of the persons life and wont hold them back- it doesnt really matter which one they pick.
If someone is going to shoot 5-10k rds a year, they can learn on it and replace it with a good knowledge of what they learned on their own.
RetroRevolver77
04-04-19, 13:50
I tell them to get a Colt AR and a Colt 1911. Both will have parts available stateside for the rest of their life. A lot of the import pistols seem to go out of production when they introduce new models while no longer supporting older models. Keep things simple.
ramairthree
04-04-19, 14:03
I don’t recommend single or double stack 1911s to noobs.
If they are the kind of person that will reap with a 1911, they are probably beyond seeking new guy advice. Sort of like I don’t recommend a car with a manual transmission to anyone, but when someone that likes their auto mustang, Camaro, or Challenger then asks about trying a manual thing.
I don’t recommend single or double stack 1911s to noobs.
If they are the kind of person that will reap with a 1911, they are probably beyond seeking new guy advice. Sort of like I don’t recommend a car with a manual transmission to anyone, but when someone that likes their auto mustang, Camaro, or Challenger then asks about trying a manual thing.
Agreed. I don't feel that a 1911 is a wise choice for a new gun owner, given the alternatives available. I generally recommend a Glock 19 or 17 and if they don't want a Glock for some reason then a S&W M&P 9MM gen2, HK VP9, or even a Walther PPQ 9MM.
Renegade04
04-04-19, 14:42
I find it difficult to recommend anything to anyone just now getting into the market. They are not knowledgeable or experienced enough to know what is what and why I would recommend certain weapons. Now, unless I have someone who comes to me directly and ask my opinion or wants to get my recommendations, I will have a lengthy conversation with them to assess their firearm experience and their wants/needs before I give them any opinions or recommendations. Generally, when people come to me directly, they already know of my experience with various types of firearms over the years.
I will add that I see too many guys on another popular AR forum that ask what they should buy or build. I DO NOT bother with those guys as they usually have done nothing as far as research is concerned. Threads like that often have every Tom, Dick, and Harry recommending one thing or another without having a clue as to what the OP really wants or where their experience lies with the AR platform.
All this said, there are a couple essential things a person should have for defensive/SHTF purposes. They should have a dependable AR carbine of some sort along with a few thousand rounds of good quality 5.56 NATO ammo and several 30-round magazines (at least 5 per AR). It should also have a good weaponlight, sling (I prefer the Vickers Blue Force 2-pt.), BUISs, and a good quality optic. A 9mm sidearm is my preference (Beretta 92FS) along with several magazines (at least 5), a couple thousand rounds of good quality ammo, and a good quality holster (I prefer the Blackhawk SERPA leg holster). They should also consider a good quality plate carrier (with plates), pouches for additionally AR and pistol magazines, and an IFAK. A Hydration pack is also another good piece of kit.
Training is an essential part and cannot be left out. A person's loadout is only as good as the person carrying it and if they are not trained on how to use it, then they, and their gear, are useless.
Remember, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. No matter what recommendations you give someone, if they do not heed the advice, they will do as they want. If they really and truly care about what is recommended, they will follow up and make wise decisions based on what sound advice was given to them.
RetroRevolver77
04-04-19, 15:00
I don’t recommend single or double stack 1911s to noobs.
If they are the kind of person that will reap with a 1911, they are probably beyond seeking new guy advice. Sort of like I don’t recommend a car with a manual transmission to anyone, but when someone that likes their auto mustang, Camaro, or Challenger then asks about trying a manual thing.
So you'd recommend an AR for a noob which requires a high level of maintenance understanding, along with being able to diagnose an array of malfunction issues as not being overly complicated- yet somehow a 1911 is? The 1911 and AR are about equal in their required overall level of care to keep them running well. If you're just going for simple, tell them to get an AK and a Glock.
Eurodriver
04-04-19, 15:36
I leave new guys alone unless I’m approached. If they don’t heed my advice then I wish them the best and go on with my life.
Who am I to ruin someone’s day, or worse let them take up my time, because they bought a DPMS?
ramairthree
04-04-19, 15:45
You misunderstand.
The benefits of a 1911 are not likely to be exploited by a new shooter.
And they are likely to enjoy playing with new springs, mag releases, etc. with ease on their Glock or Beretta vs hand fitted parts and gunsmiths.
Sort of like why I say to start with a RDS.
I would rather have a new shooter these days lured in with ease and fun than hating irons and inconvenience.
Edit- also why I will take them to the range to blast steel vs one round a minute at paper they have to scope or walk to see.
Fun crack, first hit is free....
I suggest they do their own research,learn what they need for their intended purpose and try to acquire as much of a complete system as they can afford,and if they are actually going to use this “system”,be prepared to tear it apart and modify as needed.
People are typically asking once they have already made a purchase, and are trying to make justification for what they have bought.
My comments to them are to learn how to disassemble the weapon, and then clean and lube it before they shoot. They I tell them to get a perfect zero on their weapon, and work with different distances.
In a perfect world, new shooters would go through something like my department does where troops learn everything from cleaning, to fundamentals, to more advanced target engagements. That isn't an option for most, and even if it was, the world of many shooters is not friendly to new comers.
If I was teaching a civilian course, the last thing I would be doing is trash talking the weapon choice of people. You shoot what you've brought, it doesn't matter what is better or best, what matters is what is in their hand. Typically they find out shortcomings during a class/ course anyway. When it is friends texting me asking about equipment, then I'm blunt, but that is a different story.
This topic has never been discussed here before. It is quite simply groundbreaking......
SeriousStudent
04-04-19, 20:37
This topic has never been discussed here before. It is quite simply groundbreaking......
I think you're onto something there.
You should figure out a way to travel around the country, teaching people about AR's.
Why, you could even stay at my house and drink Bourbon!
Averageman
04-04-19, 20:43
If someone asks me for my advice, I simply direct them here and caution them to read a lot of posts pertaining to their questions, then get back with me.
There is a lot of good information here, you simply have to work a bit sometimes to answer your questions.
My opinion is worth what it costs to get it which is nothing, but I do have a box of shite that I have setting on top of my safe. I call it the box of regrets, stuff I bought that I thought was good gear until I knew better. I could probably buy a new Glock with what I have in that box.
But honestly, if someone is willing to do the due diligence, I would certainly be happy to take some time with them out at the range and they can shoot some of my gear. We're just not going out there until they've done their homework.
Advice to new owners:
1) Buy decent equipment.
2) Master the basics.
3) Seek training from a reputable instructor.
4) The learning process never ends.
5) When you find yourself in a slump go back and master the basics.
Most people don’t know where good advice is to be found. So, they go to reputable looking sites and read well-written reviews, and then visit the forum(s) that keep coming up on Google every time they search for information.
It’s like recommending a Honda Accord to a new driver. Never mind, Hondas look cool. It’s like recommending the previous generations of Toyota Camry. They’ll run forever, have decent performance, but are boring. What does a new driver buy? The Kia with the cool Bluetooth features. And it doesn’t last (or, the last time I looked a car, they didn’t last), despite wonderful reviews in car magazines.
We can sit back and poo poo these people when they ask dumb questions, or we can direct them to the Honda Accords and Ford Mustangs.
But on the original topic, the answer of what to recommend to a new shooter entirely depends on the purpose and budget. There are people, me included, who aren’t going to buy an SR-15 until they have the Alfa Romeo. I started out with a complete PSA lower and complete BCM upper/BCG/CH, because though not super knowledgeable, I had stumbled across this forum and gotten some good information on BCM. I wish I’d bought a complete BCM, but at the end of the day, it makes zero difference.
If I know a person is tangentially interested in shooting, but I know will do so only as a hobby or because they think they should know how to operate the nation’s military longarm, or if they are the head of household and won’t be driving anything nicer than a five year old Ford Focus, I’ll recommend the M&P15 Sport 2, with the caveat that it may occasionally have problems and isn’t a home defense weapon.
If I know that person wants to take things seriously, I give him links to the best-priced 6920 or 6720 I can find online, and more recently the $850 LMT that popped up for a month.
If someone that I know is willing to spend money for nice stuff asks, I point to BCM and Sionics, plus SOLGW recently.
If they’re on a budget: iron sights, Daniel Defense fixed. If not, Trijicon MRO. Budget: Streamlight. Not budget: Surefire.
Sling on a budget: Proctor or used anything. Not budget: VCAS (I found I cannot stand the VTAC, personally.
Basically, I don’t give too much info unless I know the guy, in person. And if I know them, I know their willingness/ability to spend money. Not everyone has to be a dick and say “ya’ll save up for another month” about everything, especially if you know they already have for six. The more people who have something that we all like, the more people who won’t want it to be taken away. And if the guy with a Maserati ever asks, I’m point him right to KAC so I can shoot his gun.
When it comes to pistols, Glocks are the easy recommendation. I have a PPQ, so generally people who try it end up getting one of those instead. From what I’ve read, the SD9VE seems to be a valid throwaway option, if not does.
Why, you could even stay at my house and drink Bourbon!
Could you message me an address? I could really use a drink and a decent bed ;)
Most people don’t know where good advice is to be found. So, they go to reputable looking sites and read well-written reviews, and then visit the forum(s) that keep coming up on Google every time they search for information.
When you are new or don’t know much, most people don’t want to help you if the questions you ask appear “dumb.”
Operators respond to other operators, LE to LE and so on, and the inexperienced are pretty much left on their own/have to fend for themselves.
It’s wrong but that’s the way things are in 2019.
That isn't an option for most, and even if it was, the world of many shooters is not friendly to new comers.
This ^
The 2A dies when the next generation due to carry the torch is treated as unwanted/unwelcome.
ramairthree
04-05-19, 01:56
This topic has never been discussed here before. It is quite simply groundbreaking......
Far from groundbreaking.
But definitely evolving.
I don’t do things the way I did thirty years ago.
I would not recommend the same pistol light I did twenty years ago.
And there is a whole pile of different types of slings, redimags, mounts, etc. that I have moved on from.
And the first time someone showed me a lancer and everyone started talking about PMAGs my first thoughts were WTF would anyone make new thermolds and why are the rubber pull tab guys making magazines.
I'll chime in.... as a civilian buying my first AR years ago I got lured into fancy marketing and a cheap price.. got a Carbon15 (the newer somewhat better version).. It worked great at first, was light, decent barrel and shot well until it wouldn't cycle steel ammo... so I got rid of it with full disclaimer to the new owner.
After reading most posts on this site (and staying away from AR15.com for the most part), and doing some research I decided to get a BCM mid length.. I am glad I made the choice I did, as a few more BCMs followed the first one. When new shooters or people ask me, I tell them to do their research first and read, maybe rent a couple of guns. Whatever fits their needs is up to them.. The suburban range shooter might be fine with a PSA or M&P....
With regards to pistols, I stay with Glock, (older) Sigs and HK... I am very familiar with the Glock platform and they are very easy to work on and swap out parts, etc... Sig and HK a little more difficult for the lay person...
Again these are my choices, I am just happy to entice a person into getting into shooting, exercising their 2nd amendment right and being a responsible gun owner.
Between this thread and the other one similar to it I gotta say I don't quite understand the negativity towards new shooters choices.
For new shooters there is no frame of reference. No knowledge built up and explaining TDP or why Colt and not S&W or RR doesn't make much sense. Googling shit also doesn't work. You can't do research when you don't know what you're looking at! Just look at all the forums and YouTube that give glowing reviews about firearms you wouldn't touch.
I'm perfectly fine with a first time buyer buying a Taurus instead of a Glock because it's hard to impart experience and understanding. When I first started out I had 3 Tauruses and a Ruger P95. And you know what, for back then they were perfectly fine. None had mechanical issues. You pull the trigger and it shoots. So what's the difference between the $200 Taurus and the $900 HK? But back then I thought buying half a case of ammo was crazy. It seemed expensive and unnecessary. My first exposure to why Glock was better than a Ruger P95 came at a range. I was shooting my Ruger and it looked like a shotgun pattern. The guy next to me saw this and was nice enough to come over and give some pointers about stance and grip and how to shoot a double action. I slightly improved but not much. He then gave me his Glock 26 and had me do the same thing. All of a sudden my grouping was cut in half. Went from all over the target to center mass, with many in the X. I started to understand why one is better than the other.
Time went on, I started shooting more. I was exposed to different guns and slowly it made sense why HK was better than a Taurus. But it only made sense through experience and build up of first hand knowledge. Not because someone told me so.
Years ago I made a post here asking for a friend, Bushmaster or S&W. The store had 3 types on sale. All we're used police ARs. Colt 6920, SW and Bushmaster. I told him Colt but it was about $100 - $150 more and he didn't want to spend that money. I think the difference was $600 vs $500 -$550ish. Had it been just the Colt sitting there he would have been fine but seeing something less expensive he couldn't help but disregard the Colt. So I asked here, out of the two, which would be better. He ended up with the SW. Now we can shit on that rifle all day long but in reality it's perfectly fine for him. It shoots, it hasn't failed, he has no lights or red dots. He may have a sling if the rifle came with one ... and the last time it saw the light of day was around the time of the election.
So, when someone new asks me about an AR I don't bother with lights, slings, red dots, mags, training. None of it. I'll recommend what I think is better but just buy something in the mid tier hobby grade and shoot it. If they only shoot a few boxes and put it away...fine! If an occasional range trip is what makes them happy theres nothing wrong with that. Not everyone wants to do drills and spend money on things they'll never use.
If they start to get more and more into it then that's when I'd get into slings, lights, red dots...etc. Otherwise, if they're like my friend all the accessories are just a waste of money.
On the one hand we have fudds who alienate anyone not into traditional bolt actions and shotguns and on the other hand there's us going ....well if you don't listen to what I say then I can't be bothered! Meanwhile I'm more concerned about getting more people to support the 2A whether or not it's with a Taurus or a Wilson Combat
Eurodriver
04-05-19, 09:27
This topic has never been discussed here before. It is quite simply groundbreaking......
This reminds me.
We haven’t had a lube thread in a long time.
i just tell people to buy a 6920 and get a life
Between this thread and the other one similar to it I gotta say I don't quite understand the negativity towards new shooters choices.
For new shooters there is no frame of reference. No knowledge built up and explaining TDP or why Colt and not S&W or RR doesn't make much sense. Googling shit also doesn't work. You can't do research when you don't know what you're looking at! Just look at all the forums and YouTube that give glowing reviews about firearms you wouldn't touch.
I'm perfectly fine with a first time buyer buying a Taurus instead of a Glock because it's hard to impart experience and understanding. When I first started out I had 3 Tauruses and a Ruger P95. And you know what, for back then they were perfectly fine. None had mechanical issues. You pull the trigger and it shoots. So what's the difference between the $200 Taurus and the $900 HK? But back then I thought buying half a case of ammo was crazy. It seemed expensive and unnecessary. My first exposure to why Glock was better than a Ruger P95 came at a range. I was shooting my Ruger and it looked like a shotgun pattern. The guy next to me saw this and was nice enough to come over and give some pointers about stance and grip and how to shoot a double action. I slightly improved but not much. He then gave me his Glock 26 and had me do the same thing. All of a sudden my grouping was cut in half. Went from all over the target to center mass, with many in the X. I started to understand why one is better than the other.
Time went on, I started shooting more. I was exposed to different guns and slowly it made sense why HK was better than a Taurus. But it only made sense through experience and build up of first hand knowledge. Not because someone told me so.
Years ago I made a post here asking for a friend, Bushmaster or S&W. The store had 3 types on sale. All we're used police ARs. Colt 6920, SW and Bushmaster. I told him Colt but it was about $100 - $150 more and he didn't want to spend that money. I think the difference was $600 vs $500 -$550ish. Had it been just the Colt sitting there he would have been fine but seeing something less expensive he couldn't help but disregard the Colt. So I asked here, out of the two, which would be better. He ended up with the SW. Now we can shit on that rifle all day long but in reality it's perfectly fine for him. It shoots, it hasn't failed, he has no lights or red dots. He may have a sling if the rifle came with one ... and the last time it saw the light of day was around the time of the election.
So, when someone new asks me about an AR I don't bother with lights, slings, red dots, mags, training. None of it. I'll recommend what I think is better but just buy something in the mid tier hobby grade and shoot it. If they only shoot a few boxes and put it away...fine! If an occasional range trip is what makes them happy theres nothing wrong with that. Not everyone wants to do drills and spend money on things they'll never use.
If they start to get more and more into it then that's when I'd get into slings, lights, red dots...etc. Otherwise, if they're like my friend all the accessories are just a waste of money.
On the one hand we have fudds who alienate anyone not into traditional bolt actions and shotguns and on the other hand there's us going ....well if you don't listen to what I say then I can't be bothered! Meanwhile I'm more concerned about getting more people to support the 2A whether or not it's with a Taurus or a Wilson Combat
You made good points.
The suburban range shooter might be fine with a PSA or M&P....
Please define a suburban range shooter and how they differ from most of the posters in this thread.
Thanks.
This reminds me.
We haven’t had a lube thread in a long time.
Currently the wife and I........oh, I guess you meant weapon lube.
ramairthree
04-05-19, 16:21
I am more interested in how things have changed over time.
In the early 80s I saved up some cash and had a relative go get me a Colt SP1 when they went to the big city with a gun store. It was a state of the art gun at the time. It was very unusual to see someone with one at the time.
Ten years later, I wanted my own CAR version. Other than issue weapons, Colt for me had come to mean non standard lowers, bolts, and pins, and an attitude towards civilian owners/personally owned weapons that make HK look like masters of customer service.
I bought this state of the art masterpiece.
https://oi649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/112632C7-776D-4B62-9039-5928BAE03BB1_zpsmkflgnkp.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/112632C7-776D-4B62-9039-5928BAE03BB1_zpsmkflgnkp.jpeg.html)
A Bushmaster.
With the side sling attachment so you did not need to use a jungle sling adapter, and a welded 5.5 FH to a 10.5 barrel so when SHTF you could just hack it off and go commando. I think they even sold clamp on FHs to have handy for when the commies invaded or the race wars kicked off and you cut it down.
At the time, ARs we’re still few and far between compared to now.
You basically had Colt- not selling mil-spec commercially, with a F U attitude,
Armalite I believe, rarely seen,
I think DPMS was panther arms then and maybe just parts.
And Olympic Arms.
At the time, I think BM was the best option.
And that gun has suffered decades of use and abuse and various configurations,
Including a 37mm launcher, again for when SHTF you could decide to say to hell with laws and make some dragons breath and flechette APERs rounds instead of flares.
The 1994 ban sparked more interest per year than I had seen in the whole decade before.
And things really picked up in 2004.
I think it is more unusual now for a gun owner to not have an AR now than to have one or more.
But, would I choose a BM over a Colt now compared to 1990?
I have tried every sling, classic, jungle, single point, three point - but for over a decade am convinced the rapidly adjustable two point is the way to go.
My opinion of Aimpoint, I got my first in 1988, is much higher over the last decade than it had been before that.
My opinion of Eotech was much higher ten years ago than it is now.
My lights were smaller and lighter in the 80s, basically a 2 AA maglight taped to the FSP, got very big and heavy and then brighter, and are now a little bigger than the 80s, brighter than then, but not as bright or as big as they can be.
I have used every coupler, Redi mag, drum, extra capacity mag, HK, etc. and now just stick to 30 round basic gen2 Pmags and mil mags.
My first AR was a Colt about 35 years ago, my second a BM about 25 years ago, my third one of Kyle’s VTAC S&Ws for fun games about 15 years ago. I built a bunch of various types for fun, and have another Colt.
My first 308 AR was a DPMS about 15 years ago. There were not the options then there is now.
I have had changing opinions on 9mm, 40, 10mm, 45, 357, 44, 5.56, etc.
Along with a lot of other gun stuff.
And I wonder what opinions I will have different in the next couple of decades.
It’s not just guns.
I used to scoff at unibody SUVs.
The previous gens Cherokee and Grand Cherokee have proven me wrong.
I used to scoff at AWD. Some very sophisticated AWD systems in Acuras, a GC, etc. have proven so much better than my old school trucks, 4runners, XTerra, - I have to given them their due.
You made good points.
Please define a suburban range shooter and how they differ from most of the posters in this thread.
Thanks.
Suburban range shooter in my opinion is that civilian that has an AR just to have an AR... most likely doesn't get shot much if at all... Most of the posters on this thread, seem to be pretty knowledgeable about why they shoot what they shoot and might have MIL or LEO experience...
Did I pass the test.. LOL
This reminds me.
We haven’t had a lube thread in a long time.
Can there be a grease thread this time...
Suburban range shooter in my opinion is that civilian that has an AR just to have an AR... most likely doesn't get shot much if at all... Most of the posters on this thread, seem to be pretty knowledgeable about why they shoot what they shoot and might have MIL or LEO experience...
Did I pass the test.. LOL
While I wasn't a proctor, I'll vote in favor of you when it appears before the tribunal. :)
Suburban range shooter in my opinion is that civilian that has an AR just to have an AR... most likely doesn't get shot much if at all... Most of the posters on this thread, seem to be pretty knowledgeable about why they shoot what they shoot and might have MIL or LEO experience...
Did I pass the test.. LOL
So.. rural>suburban>urban ?? Asking for a friend.
Can there be a grease thread this time...
If it’s only a grease thread, how do we get to the point where someone invokes the name of George Fennell? His name appearing in a post is the first indicator that a lube thread is in good health...
So.. rural>suburban>urban ?? Asking for a friend.
Please don't confuse me I am a simple man..I am suburban and wish to be rural..lol
So.. rural>suburban>urban ?? Asking for a friend.
Double post
i just tell people to buy a 6920 and get a life
This.
While I wasn't a proctor, I'll vote in favor of you when it appears before the tribunal. :)
I appreciate it..lol.
Nothing.
Unless it's a trusted family or friend, legitimately asking for counsel, I would never give advice to anyone.
I have better things to do and there is endless pages of advice on the internet for anyone with the tiniest bit of motivation to find, read, comprehend, then decide.
I am more interested in how things have changed over time.
In the early 80s I saved up some cash and had a relative go get me a Colt SP1 when they went to the big city with a gun store. It was a state of the art gun at the time. It was very unusual to see someone with one at the time.
Ten years later, I wanted my own CAR version. Other than issue weapons, Colt for me had come to mean non standard lowers, bolts, and pins, and an attitude towards civilian owners/personally owned weapons that make HK look like masters of customer service.
I bought this state of the art masterpiece.
https://oi649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/112632C7-776D-4B62-9039-5928BAE03BB1_zpsmkflgnkp.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/112632C7-776D-4B62-9039-5928BAE03BB1_zpsmkflgnkp.jpeg.html)
A Bushmaster.
With the side sling attachment so you did not need to use a jungle sling adapter, and a welded 5.5 FH to a 10.5 barrel so when SHTF you could just hack it off and go commando. I think they even sold clamp on FHs to have handy for when the commies invaded or the race wars kicked off and you cut it down.
At the time, ARs we’re still few and far between compared to now.
You basically had Colt- not selling mil-spec commercially, with a F U attitude,
Armalite I believe, rarely seen,
I think DPMS was panther arms then and maybe just parts.
And Olympic Arms.
At the time, I think BM was the best option.
And that gun has suffered decades of use and abuse and various configurations,
Including a 37mm launcher, again for when SHTF you could decide to say to hell with laws and make some dragons breath and flechette APERs rounds instead of flares.
The 1994 ban sparked more interest per year than I had seen in the whole decade before.
And things really picked up in 2004.
I think it is more unusual now for a gun owner to not have an AR now than to have one or more.
But, would I choose a BM over a Colt now compared to 1990?
I have tried every sling, classic, jungle, single point, three point - but for over a decade am convinced the rapidly adjustable two point is the way to go.
My opinion of Aimpoint, I got my first in 1988, is much higher over the last decade than it had been before that.
My opinion of Eotech was much higher ten years ago than it is now.
My lights were smaller and lighter in the 80s, basically a 2 AA maglight taped to the FSP, got very big and heavy and then brighter, and are now a little bigger than the 80s, brighter than then, but not as bright or as big as they can be.
I have used every coupler, Redi mag, drum, extra capacity mag, HK, etc. and now just stick to 30 round basic gen2 Pmags and mil mags.
My first AR was a Colt about 35 years ago, my second a BM about 25 years ago, my third one of Kyle’s VTAC S&Ws for fun games about 15 years ago. I built a bunch of various types for fun, and have another Colt.
My first 308 AR was a DPMS about 15 years ago. There were not the options then there is now.
I have had changing opinions on 9mm, 40, 10mm, 45, 357, 44, 5.56, etc.
Along with a lot of other gun stuff.
And I wonder what opinions I will have different in the next couple of decades.
It’s not just guns.
I used to scoff at unibody SUVs.
The previous gens Cherokee and Grand Cherokee have proven me wrong.
I used to scoff at AWD. Some very sophisticated AWD systems in Acuras, a GC, etc. have proven so much better than my old school trucks, 4runners, XTerra, - I have to given them their due.I'm not sure I'd call the old 4x4 better than modern AWD. However, for the avg person in a city environment AWD is great for 99% of the bad weather. It's definitely not coming off pavement at least not on anything not resembling a road
I would advise a new shooter that investing in ammunition and training is a more sound investment than buying gadgets for a reliable OEM carbine.
I also strongly urge a new shooter to not believe everything they read on the internet.
Suburban range shooter in my opinion is that civilian that has an AR just to have an AR... most likely doesn't get shot much if at all... Most of the posters on this thread, seem to be pretty knowledgeable about why they shoot what they shoot and might have MIL or LEO experience...
Did I pass the test.. LOL
A+ Happy Face Stciker :) plus a trophy.
I was thinking in terms of range - today I shot at 50, 100 and 200, can go to 600 if I get there and shut the downrange gate before anyone else occupies that side of the range.
I have a feeling that a majority of the posters on the forum, aside from classes, are wed to what I would call a suburban range - indoors, or on outdoor ranges that have rules that limit what they can do.
Falshooter
04-06-19, 09:58
read, practice, got to the range more often, attempt to build a rifle or handgun, try learning how to reload. do this for at least 5 years and before you know it, you'll have some experience.
Hammered_Pair
04-06-19, 13:56
Advice- be realistic in your expectations and know your limitations, learn everything you can about the weapon, shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot some more.
Take a carbine class from a reputable instructor, always keep learning.
ramairthree
04-06-19, 14:27
I'm not sure I'd call the old 4x4 better than modern AWD. However, for the avg person in a city environment AWD is great for 99% of the bad weather. It's definitely not coming off pavement at least not on anything not resembling a road
The shit you have to get into for an old school body on frame SUV to have an advantage over a unibody SUV with inline drive train, and a true low 4WD is already typically well into the aftermarket mod territory.
(Note I am not saying the saying for unibody CUVs with transverse FWD based platforms with no true low 4WD)
But whether you you body on frame, unibody, in line or transverse driveline, true low 4 or not,
When it comes to bad road conditions a good AWD system - the 4WD in my fifth gen US Hilux, 2nd gen 4Runner, first and second gen expeditions, 2nd gen XTerra, or 4th gen Ram 2500 are outclassed.
Not all AWD systems are great. The SHAWD in our first gen RDX, second gen MDX, and trail rated fourth gen grand Cherokee are good. The AWD in our second gen RDX sucks.
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