View Full Version : Low posting quality
vicious_cb
04-09-19, 23:52
Ive been noticing it for a while now, the quality of posts has dropped quite significantly since the start of 2019. This forum has always been a place that had a higher signal to noise ratio than TOS but more TOS quality posts have been creeping in. Could it just be me? Well Ive PM'ed quite a few senior members and asked the same question and they've noticed it too. More than half the threads in AR general and AR technical are more appropriate to the new shooters forum or are easily answered with a google search. Im getting more and more jaded with the troll quality posts and frankly its just easier to troll them back. Nearly all of the SMEs are gone and the flow of good information has nearly stopped. Its been a slow decline buts its been glaringly obvious since the start of 2019, this place is now just TOS with less members.
Why don't you and the senior members you've polled contribute some higher quality posts/content?
Lead by example.
Eurodriver
04-10-19, 05:52
Why don't you and the senior members you've polled contribute some higher quality posts?
Lead by example.
Because threads with the following titles:
“I shot my 6920 today. Ran great.”
“I didn’t buy a new gun today because I have a Colt 6920 and Glock 19 and they both work well.”
“I added an optic to my AR and it was a quality rifle so everything worked well”
...would receive no replies.
I think what OP is describing is the forum’s rush to participate in stupid threads while the more technical ones go with just a few replies. Not too many are going to be able to discuss IR lasers and the benefits and ways of passive NV use.
But everyone wants to justify that their Holosun is just as good as an Aimpoint.
Ive been noticing it for a while now, the quality of posts has dropped quite significantly since the start of 2019. This forum has always been a place that had a higher signal to noise ratio than TOS but more TOS quality posts have been creeping in. Could it just be me? Well Ive PM'ed quite a few senior members and asked the same question and they've noticed it too. More than half the threads in AR general and AR technical are more appropriate to the new shooters forum or are easily answered with a google search. Im getting more and more jaded with the troll quality posts and frankly its just easier to troll them back. Nearly all of the SMEs are gone and the flow of good information has nearly stopped. Its been a slow decline buts its been glaringly obvious since the start of 2019, this place is now just TOS with less members.
Very true. I go back and forth between trolling the posts and not having the energy to respond to the same question, again.
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grizzlyblake
04-10-19, 06:17
I agree with the OP generally. The General Discussion threads lately have seemed pretty awful to read too, so that does set a lot of the mood on the forum.
I'd like to see more threads about actually gaining skill with these guns. I get the feeling that the majority of posters talk a big game about "running a gun hard" and all that but in reality most go shoot a few standing groups at 25yd indoors and then take some really nice photos of their gun in the yard or garage floor looking all used, or super clean in a makeshift home studio with all the right lighting.
I realize there is a large contingent now who only can shoot at 25yd indoor ranges so even some skill talk about how to get the most out of that setup with a carbine would be cool. Someone could figure out what field expedient positions could be used at the indoor range, etc. Maybe even "postal matches" where guys run drills and post their times and targets, if everyone could be honest about it.
The same could be done with carry pistols too.
I really enjoy the AR Photos thread and from time to time I'll start back and the beginning and work my way through to now. The transition has been from actually working/training carbines at the beginning to what is mostly high end Instagram studio quality photos of guns now.
A neat thread would be "Tell Me About Your Gun" with photos. The poster would have to walk through each aftermarket piece and explain why that part was chosen and how it works for that particular shooter in the field. Accompanying photos of shooting location (terrain, etc.) would be cool, and of course only guns that have been shot a bunch would be allowed.
I don't know - I'm not through my first cup of coffee so this post is probably incoherent.
The_War_Wagon
04-10-19, 07:28
The technical nature of articles on M4C are THE best on the internet, and invite the member to read, mark, and inwardly digest them, before asking... "less than informed" questions. Other than an introduction, I'm not sure I posted anything my first 6 mos. as a member - I had so much to READ!
I'm not an operator - not police - never even peeled potatoes at Ft. Dix. I'm lowly, lowly, private citizen - but I wanted to own better gear than UTG, shoot better than gangstaz at a rapper's funeral, & own better rifles, than the righthand side of "The Chart." Working firsthand with Jay Cunningham and Grant through the PA/OH/WV study group was more important (MY initially bad skills & gear notwithstanding) than being a keyboard kommando, and M4C provides that kind of interaction, for members who WANT to take advantage of it.
I'm still a Grade 'A' smartass, & I chime in on "General Discussion" appropriately. :rolleyes: But at 0.83 posts per day after 11 years, I mostly STILL read the technical discussions, & ACT on it accordingly.
But if you want to come in and brag about how great your Del-ton rifle and Hi-Point pistol are, after firing a mag through each... well... folks here CAN fix that (if you're willing to learn that it NEEDS fixing). Or we'll all get a good laugh out of watching you take enough rope to hang yourself, before Iraqgunz removes our entertainment for the day.
My point was that it’s up to us members to raise the bar. That can be easier said than done especially for new shooters that are strictly brand focused on what’s the best (whatever) without any context or understanding. Hashing out the same stuff/beating a dead horses gets old. Then you’ve also got guys that can afford the best of the best that rave on how inferior other stuff is with zero actual experience other than being brand snobs. As far as technical information there’s way too many industry secrets to even have a deep discussion.
I go back and forth between trolling the posts and not having the energy to respond to the same question, again.
I think your second point definitely touches on something that has lead to a decrease in forum traffic. It seems like you see people asking a question, then someone jumps on him in an reply and says it's been asked before. Then they post links, tell the original poster to do a search or lock the thread, or often some combination of all that.
It's one thing if people are trying to be helpful. But most of the time, I think the people replying with those type of replies are trying to make themselves look smart by trying to make the original poster feel stupid.
I never really understood that. It's completely reasonable for different people to have the same question. It's also completely reasonable for experts to change their minds on some subject, new products come out, changes in a product occur, etc.
Joe Mamma
Very true. I go back and forth between trolling the posts and not having the energy to respond to the same question, again.
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That was basically my demise. I used to participate a lot more frequently here but many of the topics became somewhat monotonous.
That and there’s a small group of members whose posts became increasingly annoying AF to read. They kinda ruined the place for me, and I would imagine others as well.
Eurodriver
04-10-19, 14:03
That was basically my demise. I used to participate a lot more frequently here but many of the topics became somewhat monotonous.
That and there’s a small group of members whose posts became increasingly annoying AF to read. They kinda ruined the place for me, and I would imagine others as well.
Awwww!
vicious_cb
04-10-19, 14:45
There are is shit being posted today in 2019 that Ive never seen even in the mid 2000's post sunset ban era when ARs started becoming a thing. For example, are you telling me people today, with the wonders of the internet, someone doesnt know where to buy gas rings.
Im happy to answer newbie questions because everyone was a newbie at one point. But if you make a thread asking a question that you didnt even take the effort to put into a Google search before hand, you have no place in making that thread.
Theres a huge difference between "Which gas rings should I buy?" vs "So I looked on the internet and heard about one piece rings, are one piece rings better than regular gas rings, what makes gas rings quality? Is there a specific metal they use?
And then make a follow up post of how "I think my gas rings are too tight?" Did you even shoot the ****ing gun first? Why are we accepting this post quality?
Maybe this person is one of those millennial snow flakes that cant do anything for themselves like figure out how to buy gas rings.
There are is shit being posted today in 2019 that Ive never seen even in the mid 2000's post sunset ban era when ARs started becoming a thing. For example, are you telling me people today, with the wonders of the internet, someone doesnt know where to buy gas rings.
Im happy to answer newbie questions because everyone was a newbie at one point. But if you make a thread asking a question that you didnt even take the effort to put into a Google search before hand, you have no place in making that thread.
Theres a huge difference between "Which gas rings should I buy?" vs "So I looked on the internet and heard about one piece rings, are one piece rings better than regular gas rings, what makes gas rings quality? Is there a specific metal they use?
And then make a follow up post of how "I think my gas rings are too tight?" Did you even shoot the ****ing gun first? Why are we accepting this post quality?
Maybe this person is one of those millennial snow flakes that cant do anything for themselves like figure out how to buy gas rings.
Yeah agreed. I wish we had one screenshot of the old orange search button and one of Google’s search bar. Either one of those two images would be a valid response to at least a quarter of new posts here.
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This isn't necessarily exclusive to M4C, as tech forums on the whole have been dying on the vine for at least 5-10yrs now as non tech social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and Twitter replace the older tech generation folks (folks 30yrs old and up) that posted up all the organized, researched, and vetted topics on forums. Folks younger than 30yrs old by in large just don't have the attention span, and patience to learn in depth about tech aspects to a subject. They're all about the glamor shots, and talking points.
Secondly, a continually fresh crop of arrogant, ignorant, and overall childish new members join these forums every year, and ultimately 5yrs ago or more, the true SMEs finally had enough of trolls and idiots shitposting, and diluting the quality of their treads.
Molon is the classic example of this, and I saw it happen to him here, and on TOS. I still remember one of the tech threads that was the straw that broke Molon's back. It was barrel break in thread where he posted numerous scientific posts including bore scope pictures illustrating his point, only to be called dumb, and a ton of other nonsense stuff from folks that had no real clue wtf they were talking about, or who they were calling out.
People create tech treads for free, and usually at siginifcant expense in both time, and money. Then they post them up, only to have ignorant members overly critique the articles, and SMEs....with most times the critiquing being totally wrong.
There is only so much that can be said about guns.
This isn't necessarily exclusive to M4C, as tech forums on the whole have been dying on the vine for at least 5-10yrs now as non tech social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and Twitter replace the older tech generation folks (folks 30yrs old and up) that posted up all the organized, researched, and vetted topics on forums. Folks younger than 30yrs old by in large just don't have the attention span, and patience to learn in depth about tech aspects to a subject. They're all about the glamor shots, and talking points.
Secondly, a continually fresh crop of arrogant, ignorant, and overall childish new members join these forums every year, and ultimately 5yrs ago or more, the true SMEs finally had enough of trolls and idiots shitposting, and diluting the quality of their treads.
Molon is the classic example of this, and I saw it happen to him here, and on TOS. I still remember one of the tech threads that was the straw that broke Molon's back. It was barrel break in thread where he posted numerous scientific posts including bore scope pictures illustrating his point, only to be called dumb, and a ton of other nonsense stuff from folks that had no real clue wtf they were talking about, or who they were calling out.
People create tech treads for free, and usually at siginifcant expense in both time, and money. Then they post them up, only to have ignorant members overly critique the articles, and SMEs....with most times the critiquing being totally wrong.
He had some fantastic posts. Doc Roberts too.
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SeriousStudent
04-10-19, 17:19
Would you like to hazard a guess on how many people post in the training AAR threads? It's a positive integer between 0 and 5.
I attend 6-8 training classes a year. I stopped doing AAR's years ago because there was zero discussion about them.
Tom Givens posts a link to his newsletter here every month. It's gold - very, very valuable info. Guess how much discussion there is that thread?
But by golly, we have a never ending supply of threads to police in General Discussion....... sigh.
The_War_Wagon
04-10-19, 17:40
But by golly, we have a never ending supply of threads to police in General Discussion....... sigh.
Dang - I see where you just took away our .40 bear penetration entertainment. :jester:
Doc Safari
04-10-19, 17:45
Many years ago I belonged to a forum where people used to complain about General Discussion all the time to the point that the people who ran the forum decided to get rid of it.
One day they either removed it or made it restricted access (I can't remember which).
Their membership "who's online" count plunged and they reinstated it shortly thereafter.
The thing is, they left it off the forum long enough that a ton of those members went off to other forums and never came back. That left the original board a cricket-chirping experience from then on.
Just sayin'....
Too many threads get locked because the subjects have been discussed before. I don't think a new thread on a subject is bad. I sense that some people get tired of the heavy handed moderation and don't bother. I see no problem letting an old topic be re-hashed in a new thread. Experience and knowledge change.
I've personally wanted to put in my 2 cents on a thread... only to find it locked. It's not like there's a swarm of traffic here these days.
vicious_cb
04-10-19, 18:19
Many years ago I belonged to a forum where people used to complain about General Discussion all the time to the point that the people who ran the forum decided to get rid of it.
One day they either removed it or made it restricted access (I can't remember which).
Their membership "who's online" count plunged and they reinstated it shortly thereafter.
The thing is, they left it off the forum long enough that a ton of those members went off to other forums and never came back. That left the original board a cricket-chirping experience from then on.
Just sayin'....
Im not sure what so special about the GD that keep members. Maybe I dont spend enough time in GD to know what really goes on here but knowing about GDs in general, there is no such thing as "high quality" posts in any GD forum, its just an amalgamation on people's opinions.
Too many threads get locked because the subjects have been discussed before. I don't think a new thread on a subject is bad. I sense that some people get tired of the heavy handed moderation and don't bother. I see no problem letting an old topic be re-hashed in a new thread. Experience and knowledge change.
I've personally wanted to put in my 2 cents on a thread... only to find it locked. It's not like there's a swarm of traffic here these days.
Its better to bump an old thread, it shows the poster actually looked for information on their own and are posting to seek clarification or updates on an old topic. Rather than post 1 line facebookesq "What is M4Cs opinion on X"
Defaultmp3
04-10-19, 18:21
The thing is, they left it off the forum long enough that a ton of those members went off to other forums and never came back. That left the original board a cricket-chirping experience from then on. Low activity with high SNR is far better than high activity with low SNR. If removal of a GD section caused people to leave, then good, they probably didn't contribute much by way of actual information to begin with.
...Secondly, a continually fresh crop of arrogant, ignorant, and overall childish new members join these forums every year, and ultimately 5yrs ago or more, the true SMEs finally had enough of trolls and idiots shitposting, and diluting the quality of their treads.
Nailed it. Although it’s not just exclusive to new members. Plenty of “trolls and idiots shitposting” with 10k+ posts.
Its better to bump an old thread, it shows the poster actually looked for information on their own and are posting to seek clarification or updates on an old topic. Rather than post 1 line facebookesq "What is M4Cs opinion on X"
One problem with old threads, and I'll use BCG's for example is that there are several threads on BCG's with no real conclusion. No to mention you have to read through several pages of banter that none of which answers your specific question.
vicious_cb
04-10-19, 18:53
One problem with old threads, and I'll use BCG's for example is that there are several threads on BCG's with no real conclusion. No to mention you have to read through several pages of banter that none of which answers your specific question.
And there lies the problem. People are no longer willing to do the work to find information, they just want it handed to them on a silver platter. Nor do I think reading "banter" is entirely pointless, good information is usually hashed out through discussion and debate. Just last night I went back through several multi-page old threads about the LMT E-carrier because I forgot exactly how it works.
Diamondback
04-10-19, 19:26
A neat thread would be "Tell Me About Your Gun" with photos. The poster would have to walk through each aftermarket piece and explain why that part was chosen and how it works for that particular shooter in the field. Accompanying photos of shooting location (terrain, etc.) would be cool, and of course only guns that have been shot a bunch would be allowed.
As a new-ish guy and a desk-dweller, I think this would be a really cool read. Get more into the theory and process of "how and why," not just "you're not serious if you're not running a 6920 with X, Y and Z add-ons."
Too many threads get locked because the subjects have been discussed before. I don't think a new thread on a subject is bad. I sense that some people get tired of the heavy handed moderation and don't bother. I see no problem letting an old topic be re-hashed in a new thread. Experience and knowledge change.
Or maybe merge the new thread with the existing and suggest "read the entire thread then come back with any questions you still have"?
I think it's hard to be new shooting now days. I remember when I first started shooting rifles and taking a class with Pat Rogers and him explaining the staying in your lane theory. Find a place you like where you can learn like M4C or Lightfighter and shut up and only comment about things you know about. In the beginning you don't know anything so you read and you take classes and practice.
I think a lot of new users are impatient, dont understand staying in your lane, and when they ask a stupid question they fight back instead of taking the lesson. We probably need to do a better job of explaining why things are the way they are.
What were are left with is a bunch of new shooters that get most of their information off instagram and facebook. Have you been in a facebook gun group. Holy crap are there some clueless people. I mean some of that info is going to get people killed.
I know it hurts but IMO we need to help new users out and understand that they are in a knowledge desert and lead them along. I think some of that is giving props to others on the board that know what they are talking about and explaining why. I also think some of it is in explaining use cases - if you only pull you AR from under your bed once a year to to shoot 100 rounds with your friends then a PSA rifle may work for you. If you use a gun for a living, your going to need a higher standard. I know it gets redundant but that info helps a lot in getting new shooters to grow. We want them to learn how to shoot and to take classes. Its good for the forum, the industry, and the country.
SeriousStudent
04-10-19, 20:40
As a new-ish guy and a desk-dweller, I think this would be a really cool read. Get more into the theory and process of "how and why," not just "you're not serious if you're not running a 6920 with X, Y and Z add-ons."
Or maybe merge the new thread with the existing and suggest "read the entire thread then come back with any questions you still have"?
We do merge threads.
Editing and pruning threads is a lot of work. And the juice needs to be worth the squeeze.
If someone has a thread they want to be reopened, they can always ask. But, however, comma, the vast reason threads get locked here is because of conspicuous motarditry. A mod can hand out infractions, or just simply close a thread. You know how many active mods we have here, right? So a lot of times, it's just simpler to close a thread, let temper's cool, then consider reopening it.
And there are a fair number of phone calls and text messages that happen. We actually do converse about things that happen here, and not just smite trolls.
Although I must admit, banning trolls and scammers makes my Grinch heart grow three sizes......
Diamondback
04-10-19, 20:56
Editing and pruning threads is a lot of work. And the juice needs to be worth the squeeze.
If someone has a thread they want to be reopened, they can always ask. But, however, comma, the vast reason threads get locked here is because of conspicuous motarditry. A mod can hand out infractions, or just simply close a thread. You know how many active mods we have here, right? So a lot of times, it's just simpler to close a thread, let temper's cool, then consider reopening it.
And there are a fair number of phone calls and text messages that happen. We actually do converse about things that happen here, and not just smite trolls.
Although I must admit, banning trolls and scammers makes my Grinch heart grow three sizes......
As a former mod elsewhere (I used to be the Research Director for the historical-data section of a wargaming-miniatures forum), I totally get you--both on the long hours of thankless hard work, and on the satisfaction of every now and again stomping some loser troll into a puddle of goo. :) (And trust me, you haven't seen stupid and obnoxious until you've seen Gamer Trolls, like the kind who whine about "overpowered USN carrier air cheese" just because a correctly historically-built Task Force 58 delivers a no less historically-correct curbstomping against all comers and "it's not FAIR that Germany doesn't get to have effective aircraft carriers!" Yeah, well take it up with your beloved Funny-Mustache F---face, Kraut Fanboy...)
He had some fantastic posts. Doc Roberts too.
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I'm glad you mentioned Doc Roberts. I learned the vast majority of my knowledge of terminal ballistics from his posts, and opinions on the matter. He shared Fackler's opinions, and results too IIrc. I can't think of two more qualified SMEs on that topic than those two. Moreover, the ammo loaded in the guns, and mags are based on his recommendations.
And there lies the problem. People are no longer willing to do the work to find information, they just want it handed to them on a silver platter. Nor do I think reading "banter" is entirely pointless, good information is usually hashed out through discussion and debate. Just last night I went back through several multi-page old threads about the LMT E-carrier because I forgot exactly how it works.
Mark made some great points, but I follow your strategy for exactly why you said. Not only do you learn lots more about the subject your searching for, from a wider range of authors, you gain peripheral information many times congruent to your subject matter.
I'm not really sure what the answer is for this question that is facing tech forums. I've read similar threads on other tech forums I visit that are totally unrelated to guns. Almost across the board I've found with the forums I visit, the general discussion sub forums are the only thing left thriving of the overall larger forum, and serve as catch all forums for all threads...tech/non tech.
To me it's devastating....it's hard to express how helpful a good tech forum with experts that populate it are. A common sense man with a good tech forum can do a lot of stuff.
Dr. Bullseye
04-10-19, 21:43
There are is shit being posted today in 2019 that Ive never seen even in the mid 2000's post sunset ban era when ARs started becoming a thing. For example, are you telling me people today, with the wonders of the internet, someone doesnt know where to buy gas rings.
Im happy to answer newbie questions because everyone was a newbie at one point. But if you make a thread asking a question that you didnt even take the effort to put into a Google search before hand, you have no place in making that thread.
Theres a huge difference between "Which gas rings should I buy?" vs "So I looked on the internet and heard about one piece rings, are one piece rings better than regular gas rings, what makes gas rings quality? Is there a specific metal they use?
And then make a follow up post of how "I think my gas rings are too tight?" Did you even shoot the ****ing gun first? Why are we accepting this post quality?
Maybe this person is one of those millennial snow flakes that cant do anything for themselves like figure out how to buy gas rings.
I may be new to ARs, new to this forum, and new to shooting but I am not your doormat. I did google rings and I mentioned that. I wanted the best advice on the best rings from guys who knew this subject---that is why I posted that thread and why I am here on this forum. I certainly did not want to shoot the rifle if the rings were wrong. Would you just shoot if you were worried about incorrectly installed rings? I don't recall you confronting me directly in either one of those threads. Why not? Look vicious cb, yes, I am sometimes a real pain in the ass, you can always ban me.
This whole issue is crystal clear to me. As someone said, paraphrasing, "only top end ARs are worth talking about". And presumably only top end AR guys should talk. If there are people that feel that way maybe they should make a private forum within this forum so they don't have to be bothered by people like me.
Here is another issue touched upon. I am not a tier one operator. In fact I am not a tier two, three or ten operator. I was never in the military and never wanted to be in the military. I am interested in learning from military guys and their experience but I am not interested in imitation of them. My interest is self-defense and SHTF. This means sometimes military equipment or understanding does not apply. I am never going to carry plates, 50 pound packs, communications equipment, night vision equipment and so on.
I am 71 years old. So I take your:
"Maybe this person is one of those millennial snow flakes that cant do anything for themselves like figure out how to buy gas rings."
as a real insult.
I may be new to ARs, new to this forum, and new to shooting but I am not your doormat. I did google rings and I mentioned that. I wanted the best advice on the best rings from guys who knew this subject---that is why I posted that thread and why I am here on this forum. I certainly did not want to shoot the rifle if the rings were wrong. Would you just shoot if you were worried about incorrectly installed rings? I don't recall you confronting me directly in either one of those threads. Why not? Look vicious cb, yes, I am sometimes a real pain in the ass, you can always ban me.
This whole issue is crystal clear to me. As someone said, paraphrasing, "only top end ARs are worth talking about". And presumably only top end AR guys should talk. If there are people that feel that way maybe they should make a private forum within this forum so they don't have to be bothered by people like me.
Here is another issue touched upon. I am not a tier one operator. In fact I am not a tier two, three or ten operator. I was never in the military and never wanted to be in the military. I am interested in learning from military guys and their experience but I am not interested in imitation of them. My interest is self-defense and SHTF. This means sometimes military equipment or understanding does not apply. I am never going to carry plates, 50 pound packs, communications equipment, night vision equipment and so on.
I am 71 years old. So I take your:
"Maybe this person is one of those millennial snow flakes that cant do anything for themselves like figure out how to buy gas rings."
as a real insult.
Easy tiger. It was a timely example. People were just venting, I don't think it was meant as an insult.
Being military, but not at all tiered, I don’t know that I’ve ever gotten the sense here that that sort of resume is required for useful input.
On GD - it has its pros and cons. I will say that sometimes it’s nice to be able to talk about politics or something when you don’t have people around you that are interested in doing so. On that point though, either everyone agrees so it’s boring and really not constructive or because it’s the internet, some guys are tough, some don’t pick up sarcasm, etc etc and there is lots of butthurt. Pros and cons. But shouldn’t be the basis of this forum. Honestly I always use the new posts tab and rarely even look at what section it’s in.
Finally, the photo thread with reasons etc, that’s exactly what the custom build forum is for. Granted it’s not all consolidated, but that is the driving purpose behind that entire sub forum. People just screw that up quite often.
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I've seen a trend in men 40-60 thinking everything on the internet is so serious and acting like babies. I get that it's sometimes hard to interpret sarcasm but grow a pair. That's no excuse for people being childish DBs and thread crapping, though. Nor an excuse for millennial snowflakes stirring up crap.
This thread is an example of grown ass men getting all offended over good natured ribbing thinking it's all directed at them. Or the 10k+ post narcissist thinking it's all about them.
It's not just this forum. It's other forums, the internet, social media, the public, traffic, waiting in line at Walmart, even gun shops. It's everywhere.
Although I must admit, banning trolls and scammers makes my Grinch heart grow three sizes......
Looks like you’ve been busy with Nigerian scammers. [emoji3]
One thing that bothers me is when people bitch about necro posting. A guy could post a legitimate question in a thread that originated in May 2010 and continued for several pages until October 2011, and within one or two posts someone is asking a mod to close the thread. My thinking is if you don't want the notification just unsubscribe.
But that same member would be told to "use the search function" if he started a new thread. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't type of thing.
vicious_cb
04-11-19, 02:21
I may be new to ARs, new to this forum, and new to shooting but I am not your doormat. I did google rings and I mentioned that. I wanted the best advice on the best rings from guys who knew this subject---that is why I posted that thread and why I am here on this forum. I certainly did not want to shoot the rifle if the rings were wrong. Would you just shoot if you were worried about incorrectly installed rings? I don't recall you confronting me directly in either one of those threads. Why not? Look vicious cb, yes, I am sometimes a real pain in the ass, you can always ban me.
This whole issue is crystal clear to me. As someone said, paraphrasing, "only top end ARs are worth talking about". And presumably only top end AR guys should talk. If there are people that feel that way maybe they should make a private forum within this forum so they don't have to be bothered by people like me.
Here is another issue touched upon. I am not a tier one operator. In fact I am not a tier two, three or ten operator. I was never in the military and never wanted to be in the military. I am interested in learning from military guys and their experience but I am not interested in imitation of them. My interest is self-defense and SHTF. This means sometimes military equipment or understanding does not apply. I am never going to carry plates, 50 pound packs, communications equipment, night vision equipment and so on.
I am 71 years old. So I take your:
"Maybe this person is one of those millennial snow flakes that cant do anything for themselves like figure out how to buy gas rings."
as a real insult.
Not trying in insult you as stated above there yours just happened to be the thread on page 1 like that. It could have easily been anything like "Which gas tube should I buy"
Again this isnt about you in particular, this is a larger issue for the forum, all technical forums or maybe even the whole internet for all I know.
Notice how a majority of the posters including me one the first page actually answered your question, albeit with some levity and humor. The correct information is there, if you cant get past the humor we inject into answering the same types of questions over and over to keep us sane then thats your problem.
The real issue is the same type of question will come up again because people not wanting to search for information themselves. I dont want this place to end up like TOS, where more than 50% of the page 1 threads are just picture threads and the other half are just rehashes of things that have been talked about 1000 times over. Oh look just popped into TOS AR general to see whats going on, what do I see? A "Running steel case" ammo thread. Its not like punching that question into google will yield everything from youtube videos to hundreds of links to articles and forum threads or anything. But let me guess, people are too ****ing lazy to read or watch to get that information.
Imagine when I wanted to find some information I would go to library and go through drawers of index cards just to find a book that might have the semblance of information I was looking for. I would think a 71 yo would appreciate that.
grizzlyblake
04-11-19, 06:29
One thing that bothers me is when people bitch about necro posting. A guy could post a legitimate question in a thread that originated in May 2010 and continued for several pages until October 2011, and within one or two posts someone is asking a mod to close the thread. My thinking is if you don't want the notification just unsubscribe.
But that same member would be told to "use the search function" if he started a new thread. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't type of thing.
Yeah I've seen it here. Bumping a very old thread asking for more detail gets closed due to being so old, and a fresh thread gets roasted for not using the search function.
I actually don't mind new threads about the same stuff because things change, new products come to market, etc.
I use Google to search m4c for topics pretty regularly and I generally gloss over any threads from 2014 and older because let's face it, that's 5 year old information. Things have come a long way in that time so even a ten page thread on what I'm looking for probably isn't totally up to date info. I'm not going to bump that old thread either and get the "Thread is five years old, if OP hasn't figured it out by now... blah, blah" responses and inevitable closing of the thread.
There are only so many possible topics about AR rifles, and pretty much everything has been covered at some point. If people don't want to rehash stuff every now and then with the latest intel the forum may as well be shut down and made a reference-only wiki type site.
Diamondback
04-11-19, 12:10
Yeah I've seen it here. Bumping a very old thread asking for more detail gets closed due to being so old, and a fresh thread gets roasted for not using the search function.
I actually don't mind new threads about the same stuff because things change, new products come to market, etc.
I use Google to search m4c for topics pretty regularly and I generally gloss over any threads from 2014 and older because let's face it, that's 5 year old information. Things have come a long way in that time so even a ten page thread on what I'm looking for probably isn't totally up to date info. I'm not going to bump that old thread either and get the "Thread is five years old, if OP hasn't figured it out by now... blah, blah" responses and inevitable closing of the thread.
There are only so many possible topics about AR rifles, and pretty much everything has been covered at some point. If people don't want to rehash stuff every now and then with the latest intel the forum may as well be shut down and made a reference-only wiki type site.
That leads me to a suggestion, if a mod or maybe some volunteer members had time and patience to do the analytics: maybe sort out some of the most frequently asked N00b Questions and stick them in a "Read This First: FAQ" sticky at the top of each subforum? I'm neither mod nor SME, but while I couldn't do all or even half of it by myself I'd be willing to contribute labor to a Team Effort building such resources.
I like the Wiki idea, in part. There has been a ton of great info posted here over the years. It would be incredibly valuable to have that consolidated and organized. Then it could be used as reference. New discussions could lead to additions or updates. Be like the M4C Book of Knowledge, to borrow a term from a project mgmt group.
One of my areas of interest is load development and I learned it would save me time to take notes on key info from some excellent threads. I learned a lot from SkyPup, Euro, MarkM and Pappabear. Their best loads have usually been within +/- .2 gr of what ends up being my best loads. Likely because they shoot a lot in multiple rifles and if it worked for them it will be pretty close for anyone else. M4C has been the best source for 5.56 load info on the internet, very high signal quality. My one page of summary points along with comparison to my data was gleaned from hundreds of posting pages. It would save new guys a lot of time and discussion that’s to be able to find the high points in the Wiki with links back to the source threads.
That is mucho work to do though and would take SMEs to determine what is worthwhile to Wiki or not.
GD is useful to allow informal discussion among otherwise technical matters. Like going to the gun club to shoot and discuss rifles and load workups, scopes etc, but running into friends and chatting about personal or worldly matters as well. It would be nice to have a button for “New Technical Posts” or to be able to see new posts with GD filtered out.
Inkslinger
04-11-19, 13:11
How about no ability to post for a period of time, I mean a long period of time. Have a welcome statement for new members explaining the wealth of information contained in this site and as a new member they should have plenty to keep them reading for quite a while so there shouldn’t be a need for them to post anything. If they don’t like it there’s always TOS.
ETA: And totally shitcan the General Discussion forum!
Low activity with high SNR is far better than high activity with low SNR. If removal of a GD section caused people to leave, then good, they probably didn't contribute much by way of actual information to begin with.
Amen to that.
How about no ability to post for a period of time, I mean a long period of time. Have a welcome statement for new members explaining the wealth of information contained in this site and as a new member they should have plenty to keep them reading for quite a while so there shouldn’t be a need for them to post anything. If they don’t like it there’s always TOS.
ETA: And totally shitcan the General Discussion forum!
What happens for the people that are already knowledgeable though? Just because you haven’t been a member here for a while, doesn’t mean you don’t know stuff worth sharing.
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Inkslinger
04-11-19, 14:22
What happens for the people that are already knowledgeable though? Just because you haven’t been a member here for a while, doesn’t mean you don’t know stuff worth sharing.
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What do you think the chances are of someone new bringing something to the table the SME’s, industry professionals and the BTDT guys have not already hashed out? Maybe you allow a new member to list their credentials and bypass any probationary period. If they bring a high level of knowledge I’m sure they may be known by Mods or other SME’s outside the site. Build the wall!
I suspect the answer is the usual reason such things happen to an forum: they start as a small/medium sized forum of like minded people with a higher level of knowledge, and as they grow, it gets diluted by more members with less knowledge to impart. I still find the SN ratio pretty good here and way better than other similar forums I stopped visiting a long time ago.
Also members knowledge can increases to the point that what was new and interesting is now known and just not as stimulating. You reach a certain point where there’s just not that much new anymore.
Good or bad, GD drives traffic. Traffic pays the bills.
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