View Full Version : Question about military general discharge
BoringGuy45
04-10-19, 10:11
Question for our vets here who would be in the know about this. How would someone get themselves a general discharge as opposed to an honorable one? Is it usually the result of bad behavior, or can one just get one for not being a good fit? What are some hypothetical scenarios or ones you observed that would lead to either a general under honorable conditions or other than honorable?
I ask because I’m writing a book and the main character is going to have been discharged with a general under honorable conditions.
We had a guy who repeated failed his PT test - on purpose most likely - and he received a general discharge.
Averageman
04-10-19, 10:35
I believe, but I may be wrong here, there a lot of ways this can happen.
If you have had a record of UCMJ actions and get another one just as you're going out the door, well there you go.
DUI is another one, so is a hot piss test, so is adultery.
Usually they will just bar you from reenlistment in most cases and forget to wave goodbye as you exit the front gate, but there is some elastic there.
It can be rather subjective sometimes, Commanders have a lot of power in such cases.
I was in a bar fight as an E-4, someone grabbed me from behind and I spun and punched him in the face. My bad it was a Staff Sergeant from another Company who was pulling Courtesy Patrol that night. I actually really liked the guy.
In my defense, we were all feeling pretty damned salty, we had been in the field for 90 days, my friend was on his back taking the beating of his young life and I was trying to extract him when I was grabbed from behind. When you're twenty years old stuff like that happens, but my Commander barred me from reenlistment and threatened a general discharge after taking my rank, my money and extra duty. There may have been some Strippers involved.
The next Company Commander and Battalion Commander lifted the bar and I made E-5 eighteen months later.
Officially:
Honorable: appropriate when the quality of the soldier’s service generally has met the standards of acceptable conduct and performance of duty for Army personnel.
General (under honorable conditions): issued to a soldier whose military record is satisfactory but not sufficiently meritorious to warrant an honorable discharge.
Other than honorable: authorized under certain chapters for a pattern of behavior, or one or more acts that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of a soldier.
Dishonorable/bad conduct can only be done through an actual court martial.
Unofficially:
Dishonorable typically means they did some very illegal stuff. Often it all comes down to how fast you can get someone out, depending on the level of severity of their infractions.
Not sure how much that answers your question, it can be fairly complicated, especially now with our new, softer army.
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I don't know the exact details but there was a guy on my ship who was dismissed after a string of incidents from his incompetence. He wasn't a bad guy, never got in trouble but he could have been masted (Navy for Article 15) several times for messing things up. Things like procedural violations and general fumble bucking dumb mistakes. Being a small guy he could disappear into nooks and crevices on the ship, and was never around unless he had a specific requirement to stand watch or attend training. We found him sleeping when he should be working, every day. He was invited to speak to the XO about his career, the future, etc. He was soon off the ship and processed for separation on a mutually agreeable ASAP date. He was basically deemed incompatible for further service and was released from his contract when he had around a year left of service.
Every enlisted sailor has a re-enlistment code assigned based upon performance evaluations. The RE-4 code means one is deemed ineligible for further re-enlistment for a specific reason. I'm not sure if this particular guy was separated under RE-4 but that code would be on his next eval, meaning he would be denied if he requested re-enlistment.
This might help:
https://www.navycs.com/military-re-codes.html
Homosexual conduct (in the past) drug use, alchoholism, minor discipline problems (not warranting an other than honorable discharge), fail physical fitness tests, failure to adapt to military service.
Unless things have changed dramatically, you have to work really hard at not getting an Honorable Discharge. Simple NJP should not exclude you.
I served with one individual who was both a performance and disciplinary problem who received a General Discharge. It was done by agreement to avoid a trial.
Two men I served with left the military with an Honorable Discharge after 8 years and neither earned a Good Conduct ribbon.
BoringGuy45
04-10-19, 11:58
All good info here everyone. Thank you! I’ll definitely have more questions as time goes on. My next question: GD isn’t something that one could get blindsided by is it? That is, you’re in the service for maybe a few years, you’ve had a couple minor screw ups that you’ve had minor punishment for (write ups, maybe some extra duty) but other than that, everything seems ok and you think you’re going to get out with an honorable discharge. Then the day comes to leave and you’re informed you’re only getting general under honorable conditions because, due to a combination of your minor issues and the fact that you were average at best all the other times, so this is the best they can do.
just a scout
04-10-19, 12:17
All good info here everyone. Thank you! I’ll definitely have more questions as time goes on. My next question: GD isn’t something that one could get blindsided by is it? That is, you’re in the service for maybe a few years, you’ve had a couple minor screw ups that you’ve had minor punishment for (write ups, maybe some extra duty) but other than that, everything seems ok and you think you’re going to get out with an honorable discharge. Then the day comes to leave and you’re informed you’re only getting general under honorable conditions because, due to a combination of your minor issues and the fact that you were average at best all the other times, so this is the best they can do.
No, you’ll know what you’re getting before you get out. A General isn’t a surprise.
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Averageman
04-10-19, 12:41
All good info here everyone. Thank you! I’ll definitely have more questions as time goes on. My next question: GD isn’t something that one could get blindsided by is it? That is, you’re in the service for maybe a few years, you’ve had a couple minor screw ups that you’ve had minor punishment for (write ups, maybe some extra duty) but other than that, everything seems ok and you think you’re going to get out with an honorable discharge. Then the day comes to leave and you’re informed you’re only getting general under honorable conditions because, due to a combination of your minor issues and the fact that you were average at best all the other times, so this is the best they can do.
You'll see it coming at you and it won't be a surprise, usually when you're read your ART-15 you'll be told it's a great possibility.
You're not going to get it for some minor infraction either, it's always been in my experience something that might have been in lieu of a Courts Martial offense. You take the ART-15 and they're going to tell you straight up you're getting Chaptered out of the Army and a General Discharge is recommended.
Even a less than stellar performer who shows up to formation sober, in uniform and ready, willing and able is going to get an Honorable Discharge.
The Army has been through some changes so maybe some younger guys should speak up.
As others have stated, you know long before your discharge date that you will be receiving a General Discharge.
telecustom
04-10-19, 15:20
When I gave Soldiers Article-15’s for substance abuse, the final statement on the document told them that they were beginning the Chapter process and if separated, they would be separated with a General Discharge - Under Honorable Conditions.
Most Lower Enlisted are allowed to come up “hot” on a UA more than once before they are actually kicked out.
Yep. I know of several instances of that happening.
We had a guy who repeated failed his PT test - on purpose most likely - and he received a general discharge.
Most Lower Enlisted are allowed to come up “hot” on a UA more than once before they are actually kicked out.
You sure? Is that command discretion? I’ve always seen it as a one and done type thing, unlike PT tests.
SeriousStudent
04-10-19, 17:22
I believe, but I may be wrong here, there a lot of ways this can happen.
If you have had a record of UCMJ actions and get another one just as you're going out the door, well there you go.
DUI is another one, so is a hot piss test, so is adultery.
Usually they will just bar you from reenlistment in most cases and forget to wave goodbye as you exit the front gate, but there is some elastic there.
It can be rather subjective sometimes, Commanders have a lot of power in such cases.
I was in a bar fight as an E-4, someone grabbed me from behind and I spun and punched him in the face. My bad it was a Staff Sergeant from another Company who was pulling Courtesy Patrol that night. I actually really liked the guy.
In my defense, we were all feeling pretty damned salty, we had been in the field for 90 days, my friend was on his back taking the beating of his young life and I was trying to extract him when I was grabbed from behind. When you're twenty years old stuff like that happens, but my Commander barred me from reenlistment and threatened a general discharge after taking my rank, my money and extra duty. There may have been some Strippers involved.
The next Company Commander and Battalion Commander lifted the bar and I made E-5 eighteen months later.
Thanks again, that guy was whipping my ass.
You sure? Is that command discretion? I’ve always seen it as a one and done type thing, unlike PT tests.
When I was in (see sigline) if you were E-4 and below you got a second chance; E-5 and above were processed for discharge. "General Under Honorable" was supposedly what it was at that point.
Does it make a difference what they hit for?
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When I was in (see sigline) if you were E-4 and below you got a second chance; E-5 and above were processed for discharge. "General Under Honorable" was supposedly what it was at that point.
Actually a lot of Joes get saved if the arresting officer is willing to work with them on DUIs. Unofficially speaking they better have in writing they are under orders to get dependence counseling.
If there is a wreck or injury, F' em.
Caught before they can do damage, work with them if they are worth it.
Again JMO and totally unofficial, hypothetical, academic 'what if'
Everyone makes mistakes but at the same time you should know better.
BoringGuy45
04-10-19, 20:35
What kind of screw up would result in General Other Than Honorable as opposed to General Under Honorable?
Actually a lot of Joes get saved if the arresting officer is willing to work with them on DUIs. Unofficially speaking they better have in writing they are under orders to get dependence counseling.
If there is a wreck or injury, F' em.
Caught before they can do damage, work with them if they are worth it.
Again JMO and totally unofficial, hypothetical, academic 'what if'
Everyone makes mistakes but at the same time you should know better.
I should have clarified that I was talking about piss tests. A DUI was probably dealt with the same if memory serves.
There was a guy from the 101st who, when they got back from the invasion of Iraq, got pulled over for a DUI. The arresting cop (Clarksville PD) cut him some slack since the unit had just got back from a year-long combat tour. He made the soldier lock up his vehicle and leave it by the side of the road, then took him onto base to his barracks. The friggin' idiot went in and got a buddy to drive him to his vehicle, and subsequently got pulled over again by the same cop!. Cop was like "Now you're getting a DUI." Oh well, dude cut you some slack and you looked a gift horse in the mouth.....pay the piper.
There are punitive and administrative discharges.
Punitive discharges are part of the punishments awarded at special or general courts martial. Special courts martial can only award Bad Conduct Discharges. General courts martial can award BCD and dishonorable discharges.
Administrative discharges can be honorable, general, or other than honorable. They can be either voluntary or involuntary. In some instances, an admin sep hearing must be held.
Each service has a separations manual. The USMC has the MARCORSEPMAN at http://dd214.us/reference/MARCORSEPMAN.pdf.
All good info here everyone. Thank you! I’ll definitely have more questions as time goes on. My next question: GD isn’t something that one could get blindsided by is it? That is, you’re in the service for maybe a few years, you’ve had a couple minor screw ups that you’ve had minor punishment for (write ups, maybe some extra duty) but other than that, everything seems ok and you think you’re going to get out with an honorable discharge. Then the day comes to leave and you’re informed you’re only getting general under honorable conditions because, due to a combination of your minor issues and the fact that you were average at best all the other times, so this is the best they can do.
Without going through the regulations, I would guess that if the service was trying to characterize a member's service as general under honorable conditions that either counseling etc. would precede the separation, or a hearing at an admin sep board would be required. It would not be a surprise as you hand in your completed check out sheet.
A member can petition for separation with a general discharge, or a member can waive a hearing they are otherwise entitled to and get a general, e.g., separation in lieu of court martial. But, again, the member can foresee this coming.
Averageman
04-11-19, 05:45
Thanks again, that guy was whipping my ass.
Not a problem, if you'll remember, Top used to say "We're Soldiers, we never leave one of our own behind. If your Battle Buddy takes a beating and you come back here without a mark on you, your A$$ is mine."
I kind of reminded him about that in the parking lot at the MP Station. He explained I wasn't in trouble for the fight, or trying to save my Buddy, I was in trouble for getting caught.
I felt really bad about letting him down, he really was like a second Father to me.
I was smart enough to take my punishment, stfu and get on with my extra duty which was working on an ammo pad carrying 105 mm crates for the rest of transition gunnery. I was ostracized and working with the REMF's on that ammo pad so long that I felt pretty bad about the whole thing.
I apologized to the Staff Sergeant several times afterwards.
In retrospect I was really lucky to get a chance to make amends and gain my rank back and get the bar to reenlistment dropped.
BoringGuy45
04-28-19, 20:06
Ok, so I let this thread drop a few pages (been busy for awhile).
So, the character in my book, as I said, has a general under honorable discharge. Now, the book is not about his military service; it's just part of his background. He's a nice guy who works hard and means well, but he keeps getting himself into jobs where he is ill suited and always seems to find himself under the supervision of cold hearted, impossible to please supervisors who, as George Costanza put it, fire people like it's a bodily function. What are some situations where a guy who does the best he can and never does anything morally or legally wrong, can screw up so bad that his commander would essentially "fire" him from the service? Like, is there a situation would a commander call this guy into the office and say, "Look, Private, I hate to do this, because you're a nice guy and you obviously work your ass off. But the fact that you work as hard as you do and still fail so hard tells me that there's nothing we can do to get you where you need to be. So, we're going to have to discharge you, and the best I do is characterize your discharge as general under honorable conditions."
Had a soldier at Fort Campbell once who was an E4 MOS 15V (aircraft mechanic) in my battalion. He kept going AWOL for short periods of time - the last was 12 days. Got kicked out with an "Other Than Honorable" Discharge. He was good at his job...when on-duty and a nice guy. Problem was he was a boozer and had women problems.
Ok, so I let this thread drop a few pages (been busy for awhile).
So, the character in my book, as I said, has a general under honorable discharge. Now, the book is not about his military service; it's just part of his background. He's a nice guy who works hard and means well, but he keeps getting himself into jobs where he is ill suited and always seems to find himself under the supervision of cold hearted, impossible to please supervisors who, as George Costanza put it, fire people like it's a bodily function. What are some situations where a guy who does the best he can and never does anything morally or legally wrong, can screw up so bad that his commander would essentially "fire" him from the service? Like, is there a situation would a commander call this guy into the office and say, "Look, Private, I hate to do this, because you're a nice guy and you obviously work your ass off. But the fact that you work as hard as you do and still fail so hard tells me that there's nothing we can do to get you where you need to be. So, we're going to have to discharge you, and the best I do is characterize your discharge as general under honorable conditions."In my experience, at least when I served (96-00), this situation you put forth would probably never occur. You couldnt just bumble your way out of the army, it took a serious effort or truck loads of IDGAF to do this. We had some serious shitbags doing shitty things and it took an act of god to get them anything more serious than an article 15. Usually they got promoted and then reenlisted 6 years PDA. I wish I was kidding about that but apparently thats all the army cared about, retention. And PMCS sheets.
My take away was that if one got tossed from the military (after basic training etc) then one was likely an authentic shitbag.
Also consider the time period you want your guy discharged. When I served, late 90s enlistments were low, as was retention so getting tossed took a serious POS. Same goes for the alot of the GWOT, especially the early 2000s, they waived all sorts of malfeasance. Now we are sort of in a draw down, talking about smaller leaner forces (yet again!) I bet getting discharged is a bit easier as It was after the first gulf war in 91.
Additional thought: I seem to recall there being situations where you would get a "general" discharge or something similarly vague that would then be upgraded to an honorable discharge after 6 months, I assume as long as you stayed out of prison. Its been so long since I thought about it I forgot the details, maybe someone else can add.
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We had a guy who repeated failed his PT test - on purpose most likely - and he received a general discharge.
Unable to train and medical problems are the main ways to get a general.
I had an E5 that was discharged for having sleep apnea. I think it was general, but it may have been medical.
I urinated in my battalion commander’s fireplace, extinguishing all of the candles his wife had placed there(the old houses at Ft. Riley are prohibited from making an actual fire, so she put 20 candles in it on stands of varying heights). I did this while making eye contact with his wife. I woke up on a mattress in his basement and he made me coffee in the morning. This was in 2009, immediately following a 12 month deployment to Mahmudiyah, Iraq. I received an honorable discharge.
BoringGuy45
04-29-19, 23:11
Unable to train.
What would that entail?
just a scout
04-30-19, 05:05
I had an E5 that was discharged for having sleep apnea. I think it was general, but it may have been medical.
That would be a medical retirement.
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