View Full Version : Secrecy, Self-Dealing, and Greed at the N.R.A.
I look at the Real Clear Politics website pretty much daily. With a title like Secrecy, Self-Dealing, and Greed at the N.R.A. I couldn't help looking at the linked article, even if it was from the New Yorker.
Further reading lead me to find that the article was written by a staffer for the Trace a clearing house devoted firearms issues - not in a positive way. I still read the article because the first couple paragraphs hooked me.
The general gist of the article, which is long, covers the relationship between the NRA and it's public relations firm Ackerman McQueen. The article outlines some pretty suspicious practices regarding the relationship between top NRA brass and the firm, apparently primarily geared toward feather the NRA upper level's nests.
Here are a couple snippets:
On NRATV, the organization’s programming network, the popular host Grant Stinchfield might appear in a “Socialist Tears” T-shirt, taking a sledgehammer to a television set cycling through liberal news shows. The platform’s Twitter account circulates videos of the spokesperson Dana Loesch, a former Breitbart News editor who has said that mainstream journalists are “the rat bastards of the earth” and deserve to be “curb-stomped.” Over menacing images of masked rioters, she asserts that the only way to stop the left is to “fight its violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth.” A lawyer and activist called Colion Noir, whose real name is Collins Idehen, Jr., also has a large following. After the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, in Parkland, Florida, Noir appeared in a video chiding “all the kids from Parkland getting ready to use your First Amendment to attack everyone else’s Second Amendment.”
Loesch and Noir have become the primary public faces of the N.R.A.; at events, enormous banners feature their images alongside those of LaPierre and Chris Cox, the organization’s top lobbyist. But Loesch and Noir are not technically employed by the N.R.A. Instead, they are paid by Ackerman McQueen, a public-relations firm based in Oklahoma. In at least one year, Loesch earned close to a million dollars, according to a source who has seen her contract.,,,,,,
,,,,The N.R.A. and Ackerman have become so intertwined that it is difficult to tell where one ends and the other begins. Top officials and staff move freely between the two organizations; Oliver North, the former Iran-Contra operative, who now serves as the N.R.A.’s president, is paid roughly a million dollars a year through Ackerman, according to two N.R.A. sources......
.....According to interviews and to documents that I obtained—federal tax forms, charity records, contracts, corporate filings, and internal communications—a small group of N.R.A. executives, contractors, and venders has extracted hundreds of millions of dollars from the nonprofit’s budget, through gratuitous payments, sweetheart deals, and opaque financial arrangements.......
......Marc Owens, who served for ten years as the head of the Internal Revenue Service division that oversees tax-exempt enterprises, recently reviewed these records. “The litany of red flags is just extraordinary,” he said. “The materials reflect one of the broadest arrays of likely transgressions that I’ve ever seen. There is a tremendous range of what appears to be the misuse of assets for the benefit of certain venders and people in control.” Owens added, “Those facts, if confirmed, could lead to the revocation of the N.R.A.’s tax-exempt status”—without which the organization could likely not survive......
.......Tax filings for 2017, the most recent year for which records are available, show that the N.R.A. paid Ackerman McQueen and its affiliates more than forty million dollars that year…….
,,,,,,Many N.R.A. employees have long suspected Ackerman of inflating the cost of the services it provides, but its relationships with executives remain strong. For instance, the company has worked closely with LaPierre’s wife, Susan, who maintains an Ackerman e-mail address and was briefly employed there, in the mid-nineties……
......As the relationship between the N.R.A. and Ackerman strengthened, some employees became disgruntled. “Most staffers think that Ackerman is too expensive,” Aaron Davis, who spent a decade working in the N.R.A.’s fund-raising department, told me. “They think they’re just using the N.R.A. to make a massive profit.......”
......As the firm’s employees visited the office more frequently, the staff began noticing Lexuses in the parking lot, alongside their own beat-up cars. “I mean, they had a lot going on for them, but they weren’t your folks who were interested in Second Amendment politics,” Davis said. They were “your typical New York or Austin types that are excited about doing really big projects and creative projects. N.R.A. being kind of propaganda gave them the opportunity to do marketing in a way they couldn’t do for any other organization......
.......Board members, particularly those who had served for a long time, grew uncomfortable. Once, Davis recalled, he took a board member to lunch to request a donation: “He just looks at me, and he goes, ‘You know, I like you, but I hate your department.’ I said, ‘Why?’ He says, ‘Because N.R.A. is not fancy Italian shoes with thousand-dollar suits. N.R.A. is the backbone of this country, wearing bluejeans and boots........”
My note: This has been going on for some time:
,,,,,In December, 1996, the N.R.A. board’s finance committee gathered at a Hyatt hotel near the Dallas–Fort Worth airport. According to minutes of the meeting, members discussed the fact that “the NRA has been technically insolvent for several years” and “has incurred substantial debt.” The minutes note “improvements in cost containment” but say that the exception was LaPierre, who “directed public relations expenditures, which were significantly over budget ($2,022,900) through the third quarter.” The committee agreed that “in our financial condition the NRA could no longer afford to spend large sums of money on Public Relations . . . nor can it afford to continue [to] allow the EVP to fail to follow the simplest of business procedures—having written agreements with vendors.”
LaPierre promised reforms. As a board member named Weldon Clark recalled, in an affidavit filed with the Federal Election Commission, LaPierre said that he would replace Ackerman with the Mercury Group, a communications firm in Washington, D.C. According to the affidavit, though, an inquiry by board members “revealed that Mercury Group, Inc. was a wholly owned subsidiary of Ackerman McQueen.”
If you want to read more: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/secrecy-self-dealing-and-greed-at-the-nra or https://www.thetrace.org/features/nra-financial-misconduct-ackerman-mcqueen/
The article is kind of like the neighbor you hate because he's so smug showing you pictures and proof that you wife is fooling around.
The NRA is not perfect. Ok got it.
Based on the information provided by the OP, it sounds like the NRA needs to tighten things up a bit to avoid losing members.
I haven't been completely happy with some of the NRA's decisions over the years, but they are the biggest dog in the fight to protect our firearm rights.
I've never assumed that the NRA was pure as driven snow. In fact, I think they are far worse than the article probably portrays. My expectations are low.
HOWEVER, there is no bigger and better dog in the fight. Washington politics is a dirty business that requires dirty lobbying groups to fight for your desired special interest. There is NOBODY doing the job they are doing. The GOA is o.k., but they've got a long way to go.
This article is a perfect way for the mainstream media to chip away at NRA membership. Create more distrust and division among gun owners. I'm actually shocked that it hasn't been happening more often.
The NRA's power through how much money they contribute in political races is totally overblown. They are overshadowed significantly by other lobby groups, unions, and corporations.
I've never assumed that the NRA was pure as driven snow. In fact, I think they are far worse than the article probably portrays. My expectations are low.
HOWEVER, there is no bigger and better dog in the fight. Washington politics is a dirty business that requires dirty lobbying groups to fight for your desired special interest. There is NOBODY doing the job they are doing. The GOA is o.k., but they've got a long way to go.
Really?
Who supported the NFA.
Who supported the 68 GCA.
Who supported the machine gun ban.
Who supported and called for the bump stock ban.
Who is supporting and calling for Red Flag laws.
With friends like that who needs enemies.
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Doc Safari
04-22-19, 14:48
Really?
Who supported the NFA.
Who supported the 68 GCA.
Who supported the machine gun ban.
Who supported and called for the bump stock ban.
Who is supporting and calling for Red Flag laws.
With friends like that who needs enemies.
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100% agree. I gave up my membership in the 1990s when they basically accepted the fact that the Brady Law and the AWB were going to pass and just tried to "cut the best deal". Then they had the gall to send out massive fundraising letters. In fact, all I ever got from them was solicitations for more money.
Nothing will change until you get rid of skeletor. That being said they have more pull than anyone else and got threw 2013 unscathed.
Really?
Who supported the NFA.
Who supported the 68 GCA.
Who supported the machine gun ban.
Who supported and called for the bump stock ban.
Who is supporting and calling for Red Flag laws.
With friends like that who needs enemies.
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And..... where would we be if it weren’t for them holding politicians feet to the fire? Far worse off. They are far from perfect, but the best we’ve got right now.
NRA discussions on the board always end up in the same circle jerk.
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Not sure how giving A ratings and endorsements to politicians who have supported anti 2nd Amendment initiatives is holding their feet to the fire.
So you're telling me that an organization that has thousands of staff members, millions of members, and functions on donated money might have some corruption and corrupt people involved with it??? Shocker!
Should we all turn our backs on the entire organization and just lets the Dems have their way with us?
Think about it. There is a reason why all the people who want to take our guns HATE the NRA and cry and complain about them every chance they get. It is not because the NRA is incompetent. It is not because the NRA fails to stop them in their tracks on a regular basis. Where would we be today without the NRA? Hell yes, they've made mistakes. So have I. Hell no, I don't always agree with them. Would any of you prefer they weren't there?
I've never assumed that the NRA was pure as driven snow. In fact, I think they are far worse than the article probably portrays. My expectations are low.
HOWEVER, there is no bigger and better dog in the fight. Washington politics is a dirty business that requires dirty lobbying groups to fight for your desired special interest. There is NOBODY doing the job they are doing. The GOA is o.k., but they've got a long way to go.
This article is a perfect way for the mainstream media to chip away at NRA membership. Create more distrust and division among gun owners. I'm actually shocked that it hasn't been happening more often.
The NRA's power through how much money they contribute in political races is totally overblown. They are overshadowed significantly by other lobby groups, unions, and corporations.
Saved me some typing. It frustrates me that far too often the GOA is sending out "contact your reps" emails while the NRA does basically nothing. But people still fear the bark of the NRA to a certain extent.
Saved me some typing. It frustrates me that far too often the GOA is sending out "contact your reps" emails while the NRA does basically nothing. But people still fear the bark of the NRA to a certain extent.The NRA does do stuff.
You get letters asking for more money.
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Business_Casual
04-22-19, 19:02
Yawn.
I will stand with the NRA until **I** decide not to stand with the NRA, and for *ME*, I am not close to that point yet. Going to the NRA exhibition this Friday and hopefully talk to LAV and Chuck Norris and see a bunch of old friends there. While the NRA is not perfect and I would do some things quite differently, I think it would be close to unanimously agreed upon, without the NRA , we would have pretty much lost ALL out firearms and second amendment rights a long time ago. That is undebatable. VOTE for TRUMP 2020 !!!
Remember there is strength in unity, but divided we are weak and will lose.
So you're telling me that an organization that has thousands of staff members, millions of members, and functions on donated money might have some corruption and corrupt people involved with it??? Shocker!
Should we all turn our backs on the entire organization and just lets the Dems have their way with us?
Think about it. There is a reason why all the people who want to take our guns HATE the NRA and cry and complain about them every chance they get. It is not because the NRA is incompetent. It is not because the NRA fails to stop them in their tracks on a regular basis. Where would we be today without the NRA? Hell yes, they've made mistakes. So have I. Hell no, I don't always agree with them. Would any of you prefer they weren't there?
I never said the NRA was incompetent or making mistakes.
I simply asked how giving A ratings and endorsements to anti 2nd Amendment politicians is holding their feet to the fire.
Democrats having their way with us? Was it consensual in Florida last year since it was a GOP legislature and governor doing the gun control with Marion Hammer bringing them to heel?
This article is a perfect way for the mainstream media to chip away at NRA membership. Create more distrust and division among gun owners. I'm actually shocked that it hasn't been happening more often.
Kind of what I thought when I read it. Which is also one reason I mentioned the pedigree of the authors.
Also expected the same rational for continued support.
The thought I have is if the NRA members were able to correct this state of affairs, the NRA would be more efficient AND effective.
Situational ethics and self-interest before principals in our foreign policy are pretty much why we have the mess we have today. Not sure the same doesn't apply to the NRA.
Kind of what I thought when I read it. Which is also one reason I mentioned the pedigree of the authors.
Also expected the same rational for continued support.
The thought I have is if the NRA members were able to correct this state of affairs, the NRA would be more efficient AND effective.
Situational ethics and self-interest before principals in our foreign policy are pretty much why we have the mess we have today. Not sure the same doesn't apply to the NRA.
Why would/should the NRA change anything? They are doing quite well bringing in revenue as is. Changing anything with how they operate to try to attract new members could end up being like Coca Cola changing formulas back in the 80's and losing their base.
I think it would be close to unanimously agreed upon, without the NRA , we would have pretty much lost ALL out firearms and second amendment rights a long time ago. That is undebatable.
I dont think so , they are the ones who supported everything we have lost.
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Why would/should the NRA change anything?
Because it appears to me, simple shit that I am, that the head honchos are bilking the membership by double dipping, paying outlandish fees to buddies in return for favors - to them personally - down the road.
Do you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, think that former Democrat Wayne LaPierre, actually gives a fvck about your AR? Nope, he hopped on the NRA pony in 1977 and is riding it for all it's worth:
Later that year (in 1977), Wayne LaPierre began working for the N.R.A., as a lobbyist. LaPierre, a former Democratic legislative aide with little experience handling guns, was not obviously suited to a role as a firebrand.
In 2014, NRA contributions totaled $103 million and LaPierre's compensation was $985,885. In 2015, NRA contributions totaled $95 million. In that year, LaPierre received a $3.7 million "employee funded deferred compensation plan", which was required by federal law, according to the NRA raising his total annual compensation to $5,110,985.
Let's see, $5,110,985 was 5.4% of the total take of the NRA for that year. Yep, he's down in the trenches with us, lots of skin in the game. LOL
NRA isn't perfect and I would like to see some changes, like them growing larger balls and NEVER caving on ANY firearm or firearm accessory related issue, EVER.
That being said, if you are only a member of the NRA, you are doing it wrong. Big time.
26Inf, et al- if you don't like how the NRA is doing things, are you at least contributing to all/some of these?
GOA/Gun Owners of America
SAF/The Second Amendment Foundation
JFPO/Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Constitutional Rights PAC (This one goes beyond just 2A, but that's a big part of their mission.
FPC/Firearms Policy Coalition
WAGC/Women against gun control
Citizens Committee for the right to Keep and Bear Arms
_______ <-- Insert local gun rights org.
We need every dog in this fight we can get, including the NRA in my opinion.
I contribute to all fo the above and my local RMGO. How about you guys?
Because it appears to me, simple shit that I am, that the head honchos are bilking the membership by double dipping, paying outlandish fees to buddies in return for favors - to them personally - down the road.
Do you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, think that former Democrat Wayne LaPierre, actually gives a fvck about your AR? Nope, he hopped on the NRA pony in 1977 and is riding it for all it's worth:
Later that year (in 1977), Wayne LaPierre began working for the N.R.A., as a lobbyist. LaPierre, a former Democratic legislative aide with little experience handling guns, was not obviously suited to a role as a firebrand.
In 2014, NRA contributions totaled $103 million and LaPierre's compensation was $985,885. In 2015, NRA contributions totaled $95 million. In that year, LaPierre received a $3.7 million "employee funded deferred compensation plan", which was required by federal law, according to the NRA raising his total annual compensation to $5,110,985.
Let's see, $5,110,985 was 5.4% of the total take of the NRA for that year. Yep, he's down in the trenches with us, lots of skin in the game. LOL
I really, really get you. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, especially when it comes to our guys that we give money to so that they can act on our behalf and in our interests. I'm all for calling out former Dems who know nothing about guns becoming big deal people in the NRA. And we should all remember the NRA gave Harry Reid an A fcking rating right up until he tried a last hour, second attempt at the Sandy Hook Assault Weapon Ban when he thought nobody was looking and everyone believed the issue was settled.
But sad as they are sometimes, the NRA is out first wall of defense. Granted it's crumbling, not well maintained and money we give for improvements or even maintenance seem to get spent on other things. But it still is our first wall of defense and any changes for the better are going to have to come from within.
Of course that means that your average NRA member must be made to understand what the NRA does, what they are supposed to be doing and what they aren't doing at all. So we have to start there.
I'd be willing to bet 50% of NRA members don't even know what the "sporter clause" within the 1968 Gun Control Act is or how much it dramatically impacts their lives and regulates the firearms they can and cannot have access to. Sadly they all seem to know about the Reagan "machine gun ban" and will forever piss and moan about that one while being willfully ignorant of the rest of FOPA 86 and what the alternative would have been if it had not been passed.
If I could have just one thing, it would be Universal Education regarding the Sporter Clause so the NRA membership would declare BULLSHIT and make the NRA actually do something meaningful about something. But no, they are too busy with Bumpstock and that traitor Trump who banned them without even realizing the "sporter clause" is the basis for such arbitrary legislation.
If I was President of the NRA I would send out an information letter every damn month informing people about the Sporter Clause and what can be done to strike it from the 1968 GCA.
Because it appears to me, simple shit that I am, that the head honchos are bilking the membership by double dipping, paying outlandish fees to buddies in return for favors - to them personally - down the road.
Do you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, think that former Democrat Wayne LaPierre, actually gives a fvck about your AR? Nope, he hopped on the NRA pony in 1977 and is riding it for all it's worth:
Later that year (in 1977), Wayne LaPierre began working for the N.R.A., as a lobbyist. LaPierre, a former Democratic legislative aide with little experience handling guns, was not obviously suited to a role as a firebrand.
In 2014, NRA contributions totaled $103 million and LaPierre's compensation was $985,885. In 2015, NRA contributions totaled $95 million. In that year, LaPierre received a $3.7 million "employee funded deferred compensation plan", which was required by federal law, according to the NRA raising his total annual compensation to $5,110,985.
Let's see, $5,110,985 was 5.4% of the total take of the NRA for that year. Yep, he's down in the trenches with us, lots of skin in the game. LOL
NRA members that are aware of those points keep donating, encourage others to donate, and try to get new members.
Their base membership vigorously supports their current operations. Why would they change course to a tougher path that stands a chance of alienating a large part of the people who are their steady stream of revenue?
I really, really get you. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, especially when it comes to our guys that we give money to so that they can act on our behalf and in our interests. I'm all for calling out former Dems who know nothing about guns becoming big deal people in the NRA. And we should all remember the NRA gave Harry Reid an A fcking rating right up until he tried a last hour, second attempt at the Sandy Hook Assault Weapon Ban when he thought nobody was looking and everyone believed the issue was settled.
But sad as they are sometimes, the NRA is out first wall of defense. Granted it's crumbling, not well maintained and money we give for improvements or even maintenance seem to get spent on other things. But it still is our first wall of defense and any changes for the better are going to have to come from within.
Of course that means that your average NRA member must be made to understand what the NRA does, what they are supposed to be doing and what they aren't doing at all. So we have to start there.
I'd be willing to bet 50% of NRA members don't even know what the "sporter clause" within the 1968 Gun Control Act is or how much it dramatically impacts their lives and regulates the firearms they can and cannot have access to. Sadly they all seem to know about the Reagan "machine gun ban" and will forever piss and moan about that one while being willfully ignorant of the rest of FOPA 86 and what the alternative would have been if it had not been passed.
If I could have just one thing, it would be Universal Education regarding the Sporter Clause so the NRA membership would declare BULLSHIT and make the NRA actually do something meaningful about something. But no, they are too busy with Bumpstock and that traitor Trump who banned them without even realizing the "sporter clause" is the basis for such arbitrary legislation.
If I was President of the NRA I would send out an information letter every damn month informing people about the Sporter Clause and what can be done to strike it from the 1968 GCA.
But Oliver North and lots of others wouldn't want the sporter clause removed at all.
https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/05/15/new-nra-president-oliver-north-supported-assault-weapons-ban-waco-raid/
From what I have found, Neal Knox pushed for the sunset addendum in 1994. In 1997 the NRA made sure he wouldn't end up as president of the organization.
The NRA is historically a fudd organization that supported several of the most egregious infringements on our 2nd Amendment. The NRA only cares about semi automatic firearms because perpetual ban scares earn them A LOT of money. Aside from a few individuals, the organization by and large doesn’t give a rats ass about the average M4C member’s right to own firearms for the purpose of fighting a tyrannical government. You can just LOOK at that weasel LaPierre and know he’s a closet fudd. I doubt they’ll ever fight to undo their previous evils, and they’ll continue to half-heartedly fight for us to keep our remaining rights because there is no money to be made in a decisive victory. They’d have to go back to firearms education.
The NRA understands one thing: money. The corrupt executives are a bunch of bloodsucking ticks—dug in deep and draining precious lifeblood from the organization. The only hope for true, meaningful change is for members to vote with their wallets. I’m fine with the organization crumbling if they don’t reel in their irresponsible spending and FIRE those who have been running the organization into the ground for decades. They control their own destiny at this point.
The NRA is the megachurch of the gun culture.
Doc Safari
04-23-19, 09:24
Those of you propping up the NRA think of this: If the same amount of people supported GOA, Wayne LaPierre and his duck gun buddies would become largely irrelevant.
Those of you propping up the NRA think of this: If the same amount of people supported GOA, Wayne LaPierre and his duck gun buddies would become largely irrelevant.
What does this mean? That we should stop support for the NRA and support the GOA? You should support them all. But as I said earlier in this thread, there is no way we would have gotten through 2013 unscathed without the NRA.
How about we list all the Pro-2A organizations that gun grabing liberals fear? I'll start:
The NRA
I suspect if you dug deep enough you could find, lets say, small irregularities in ALL of the following organizations.
GOA/Gun Owners of America
SAF/The Second Amendment Foundation
JFPO/Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Constitutional Rights PAC (This one goes beyond just 2A, but that's a big part of their mission.
FPC/Firearms Policy Coalition
WAGC/Women against gun control
Citizens Committee for the right to Keep and Bear Arms
I like GOA and all these other groups,I really do, but,
If GOA ever held a meeting, it could be a Pratt family re-union with founder and past Executive Director Larry talking to son and current Executive Director Erich while Mama fixes sammiches. All 14 employees of GOA could fill out the crowd.
But the NRA Annual Meeting will be an actual event, featuring President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.
https://www.nraam.org/
15 acres of guns and gear, for 80,000 attendees from over 800 vendors. No wonder the GOA trolls are jealous with envy this week.
. https://www.indystar.com/story/news...-trump-pence-alan-jackson-tickets/3378556002/
For everyone defending the NRA and saying, "Where would we be without them?"
Be honest, YOU HAVE NO IDEA where we would be. NONE. ZERO. Because they exist they have essentially sucked all the oxygen out of the room. There is little left for any other organization.
Would another organization be better? Be worse? Who knows?......But no one can say they "know" anything about what things would be like without the NRA. There would likely be other organizations to take their place if they were not around and what they would do, how they would do it etc...is completely unknown. I can tell you this much, they do exactly jack and shit here in Texas- the Rep. that covers Texas covers TWO other states, nobody sees her in Austin. The heavy lifting is done by the Texas State Rifle Association- and that's fact- and unfortunately, they are a bunch of Fudds content to play small ball when it comes to our rights.
ETA: I also find it curious that on a board full of LE and Veterans etc...that everyone is so quick to excuse corruption if it's "their guy".... It's kind of sad really. Honor, integrity etc....apparently just words now....No wonder we are where we are as a nation. If you can excuse these things in your own- then you had better believe war is coming or you can simply submit to scumbags of one stripe or another.
Doc Safari
04-23-19, 09:56
All right I'll concede we can't just flush the NRA until there is something better, which there may never be. But they're not getting another penny from me until they become a lean, efficient, and effective organization ON THE OFFENSIVE RATHER THAN THE DEFENSIVE. When they have the clout to repeal GCA '68, the NFA, the Brady Law, Section 922(r), etc., then I will believe. Until then, no.
How about we list all the Pro-2A organizations that gun grabing liberals fear? I'll start:
The NRA
I like GOA, but,
If GOA ever held a meeting, it could be a Pratt family re-union with founder and past Executive Director Larry talking to son and current Executive Director Erich while Mama fixes sammiches. All 14 employees of GOA could fill out the crowd.
But the NRA Annual Meeting will be an actual event, featuring President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.
https://www.nraam.org/
15 acres of guns and gear, for 80,000 attendees from over 800 vendors. No wonder the GOA trolls are jealous with envy this week.
. https://www.indystar.com/story/news...-trump-pence-alan-jackson-tickets/3378556002/
Why would liberals fear a group that has been instrumental in getting so many anti-gun laws on the books?
Will President Trump extoll the virtues of bump stock bans, red flag laws, and how America is slowly coming out from under the boot heel of due process?
For everyone defending the NRA and saying, "Where would we be without them?"
Be honest, YOU HAVE NO IDEA where we would be. NONE. ZERO. Because they exist they have essentially sucked all the oxygen out of the room. There is little left for any other organization.
Would another organization be better? Be worse? Who knows?......But no one can say they "know" anything about what things would be like without the NRA. There would likely be other organizations to take their place if they were not around and what they would do, how they would do it etc...is completely unknown. I can tell you this much, they do exactly jack and shit here in Texas- the Rep. that covers Texas covers TWO other states, nobody sees her in Austin. The heavy lifting is done by the Texas State Rifle Association- and that's fact- and unfortunately, they are a bunch of Fudds content to play small ball when it comes to our rights.
ETA: I also find it curious that on a board full of LE and Veterans etc...that everyone is so quick to excuse corruption if it's "their guy".... It's kind of sad really. Honor, integrity etc....apparently just words now....No wonder we are where we are as a nation. If you can excuse these things in your own- then you had better believe war is coming or you can simply submit to scumbags of one stripe or another.
Seen several states with legit and active pro 2nd Amendment groups complain about NRA thwarting their efforts by backing anti gun politicians.
Seen several states with legit and active pro 2nd Amendment groups complain about NRA thwarting their efforts by backing anti gun politicians.
I can't speak to other states but you have jackasses like our House Speaker Bonnen here in Texas that wear their NRA A rating as some kind of magic talisman. As long as he has it he doesn't have to do a damn thing to actually ADVANCE gun rights and he can concentrate on whatever the Doctors, Realtors and Insurance Lobby think is most important and **** the little people and what they want.
I'm a life member, but I think that the NRA is part of the establishment.
sundance435
04-23-19, 14:46
Lot of interesting things to consider in the comments here so far. My current frustration with the NRA is due, it seems, to the tack they've taken with this Ackerman firm. Their advertising/solicitation/media efforts are at best hyperbolic and at the worst detrimental to 2A rights. I also think there's an interesting case to be made that they are, to some extent, part of the status quo and why our 2A rights will never improve from where they are now. I don't think there's necessarily a conspiracy theory to be made, it's just politics 101 and they're great at that. They (apparently) make more money from fear and are not above manufacturing their own crises, which, again, is detrimental to gun owners in general. They've lost some of their bite with the constant drumbeat of "this is the biggest threat ever", but they still know that their greatest fundraising comes from having an enemy, real or not - again, politics 101.
However, nothing that was reported in the article is really surprising to me. That has nothing to do with the NRA in particular, it's just how the "system" works. Happens in any not-for-profit, for-profit, or government. People use their positions to help themselves and friends - nothing new there. The good ol' boy network is as strong now as it ever was, it's just changed forms over the years. I don't even have a particular problem with the good ol' boy network because when you know how it operates in a given situation, that's an advantage, but I'm more of a realist than an altruist.
That said, there's still nothing out there to replace the NRA that can come close to the degree of success they have and the influence they wield. I think these kinds of articles, like those about Russian involvement in the NRA, are primarily designed to damage the NRA's credibility and standing, though the information itself is probably mostly factual. You could write the same piece about any organization, but it wouldn't get the reads that an NRA article would.
NRA isn't perfect and I would like to see some changes, like them growing larger balls and NEVER caving on ANY firearm or firearm accessory related issue, EVER.
That being said, if you are only a member of the NRA, you are doing it wrong. Big time.
26Inf, et al- if you don't like how the NRA is doing things, are you at least contributing to all/some of these?
GOA/Gun Owners of America
SAF/The Second Amendment Foundation
JFPO/Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Constitutional Rights PAC (This one goes beyond just 2A, but that's a big part of their mission.
FPC/Firearms Policy Coalition
WAGC/Women against gun control
Citizens Committee for the right to Keep and Bear Arms
_______ <-- Insert local gun rights org.
We need every dog in this fight we can get, including the NRA in my opinion.
I contribute to all fo the above and my local RMGO. How about you guys?
As for me, yes, GOA and NSSF (which you didn't mention). I joined GOA, them sent them some more money, as a result they've been asking for more.
I really, really get you....If I was President of the NRA I would send out an information letter every damn month informing people about the Sporter Clause and what can be done to strike it from the 1968 GCA.
Good stuff.
NRA members that are aware of those points keep donating, encourage others to donate, and try to get new members.
Their base membership vigorously supports their current operations. Why would they change course to a tougher path that stands a chance of alienating a large part of the people who are their steady stream of revenue?
I don't believe that the base membership knowledgeably supports their base operations. I hope that you realize a good portion of the NRA membership could give a care less about your black rifle - those fuds that often get mentioned.
By changing course, you mean transferring money from the membership to their own pockets by potentially illegal means which might jeopardize the NRS's non-profit status?
I fully recognize the article was intended to be a hit piece on the NRA, to sow seeds of discord. But I also believe that it is factually true. The membership needs to hold LaPierre, North, et al, accountable and start putting the wasted money to work, not destroy the NRA.
I don't believe that the base membership knowledgeably supports their base operations. I hope that you realize a good portion of the NRA membership could give a care less about your black rifle - those fuds that often get mentioned.
By changing course, you mean transferring money from the membership to their own pockets by potentially illegal means which might jeopardize the NRS's non-profit status?
I fully recognize the article was intended to be a hit piece on the NRA, to sow seeds of discord. But I also believe that it is factually true. The membership needs to hold LaPierre, North, et al, accountable and start putting the wasted money to work, not destroy the NRA.
Here's the problem as far as I'm concerned about all this. The NRA inner sanctum leadership has known about all this for a long time. They rammed through bylaw changes not long ago for EXACTLY this reason- to protect their place at the trough, making it extremely difficult for the rank and file to replace board members etc....That's pretty damn sketchy and convincing to me that they have thought they were in trouble for awhile- they wanted to insulate themselves from the "pitchforks of the riff raff"...... I can't tolerate that level of deception.
Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not talking about a boycott etc...I want a PURGE of the current regime, voiding of contracts, suits for mis, mal and non feasance....And I want it rebuilt like the $6 Million Dollar Man- Stronger, Faster, Better- You get the idea.
I don't believe that the base membership knowledgeably supports their base operations. I hope that you realize a good portion of the NRA membership could give a care less about your black rifle - those fuds that often get mentioned.
By changing course, you mean transferring money from the membership to their own pockets by potentially illegal means which might jeopardize the NRS's non-profit status?
I fully recognize the article was intended to be a hit piece on the NRA, to sow seeds of discord. But I also believe that it is factually true. The membership needs to hold LaPierre, North, et al, accountable and start putting the wasted money to work, not destroy the NRA.
I fully understand a large portion of the NRA membership does not support the 2nd Amendment and management supports it even less.
That being said, their advertising schemes to attract money states the exact opposite. So I don't put a lot of faith in people who support what could be considered a fraudulent ad campaign to gain funds getting their sense of right and wrong offended by those funds getting dispensed in a similar manner to how they were accrued.
Nothing changes until you get rid of skeletor.
But Oliver North and lots of others wouldn't want the sporter clause removed at all.
https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/05/15/new-nra-president-oliver-north-supported-assault-weapons-ban-waco-raid/
From what I have found, Neal Knox pushed for the sunset addendum in 1994. In 1997 the NRA made sure he wouldn't end up as president of the organization.
Your problem is actually with membership and not leadership. Of course actually getting the membership to do something meaningful about the leadership is a rather large problem. It took the Clinton ban to get the NRA to stop treating gun owners who have black rifles like some outlaw biker contingent of the community. Don't even get me started on NFA stuff, there are gun owners who spend more time worrying about the effectiveness of their realtree camo on their crossbow then there are ones who understand anything about NFA weapons.
Your problem is actually with membership and not leadership. Of course actually getting the membership to do something meaningful about the leadership is a rather large problem. It took the Clinton ban to get the NRA to stop treating gun owners who have black rifles like some outlaw biker contingent of the community. Don't even get me started on NFA stuff, there are gun owners who spend more time worrying about the effectiveness of their realtree camo on their crossbow then there are ones who understand anything about NFA weapons.
I think there is plenty of issues with leadership as well as membership. While it is unlikely members would ever remove leaders, leaders have certainly taken steps to make it difficult to remove them.
Everytown has new Ads'......Thanks Wayne and the Excellent Leadership at NRA HQ!!!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/everytown-launches-nra-in-crisis-ad-campaign-ahead-of-gun-groups-annual-convention-181625261.html
Everytown has new Ads'......Thanks Wayne and the Excellent Leadership at NRA HQ!!!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/everytown-launches-nra-in-crisis-ad-campaign-ahead-of-gun-groups-annual-convention-181625261.html
That was an interesting article. they can really hold a grudge considering the only time the NRA was really focused on Firearms Rights was when Knox was involved
I think there is plenty of issues with leadership as well as membership. While it is unlikely members would ever remove leaders, leaders have certainly taken steps to make it difficult to remove them.
And what you just described is the "real world" as it exist with just about any collection of humans. Governments usually don't act in the best interests of the people, organizations are like mini governments.
However any meaningful change is NOT going to come from leadership, it will have to come from an informed membership that understands the problem and is willing to do what is necessary to make changes.
One of those things that will allow change is being an NRA member who can vote for board directors.
One of those things that will probably do nothing to change things is complaining on the internet.
Anyone can define a problem, define a solution. Provide an action plan other than "The NRA sucks."
And what you just described is the "real world" as it exist with just about any collection of humans. Governments usually don't act in the best interests of the people, organizations are like mini governments.
However any meaningful change is NOT going to come from leadership, it will have to come from an informed membership that understands the problem and is willing to do what is necessary to make changes.
One of those things that will allow change is being an NRA member who can vote for board directors.
One of those things that will probably do nothing to change things is complaining on the internet.
Anyone can define a problem, define a solution. Provide an action plan other than "The NRA sucks."
Well that would be nice, but we get back to the whole leadership having taken steps to make sure it doesn't get removed thing. Paying them further guarantees they won't do anything different.
If a business isn't providing the service I want, why would I continue to pay for essentially nothing? Or in this case not only not getting what I want, but the business causing further harm. This would be akin to hiring a pest control company that not only fails to control pests in the first place, but is staffed with employees carrying in parasites.
Well that would be nice, but we get back to the whole leadership having taken steps to make sure it doesn't get removed thing. Paying them further guarantees they won't do anything different.
If a business isn't providing the service I want, why would I continue to pay for essentially nothing? Or in this case not only not getting what I want, but the business causing further harm. This would be akin to hiring a pest control company that not only fails to control pests in the first place, but is staffed with employees carrying in parasites.
It's more like expecting a business you didn't hire to do anything for you. If you aren't a customer of McDonalds do you really feel it is within your rights to demand menu concessions?
Just so we are on the same page, I agree with you. But non members are never gonna change anything and a complacent membership is unlikely to effect any change.
I think the last time the membership ever got fired up to do ANYTHING was when Larry Craig was voted off the board because of his airport men's room antics. Never mind that he single handedly prevented the reauthorization of the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban about a week before the sunset when a Republican majority Congress successfully amended it to an Industry Protection Bill he introduced.
If not for Craig, none of us would have a 6920, but because he was gay and liked to troll airport bathrooms for hookups the membership got rid of him quick. And that is pretty much the problem, lots of people in the NRA care more if somebody is gay than if he actually prevented the permanent reauthorization of the Clinton Ban.
Larry Craig should have become President of the NRA on that day. Would have solved LOTS of problems.
It's more like expecting a business you didn't hire to do anything for you. If you aren't a customer of McDonalds do you really feel it is within your rights to demand menu concessions?
Just so we are on the same page, I agree with you. But non members are never gonna change anything and a complacent membership is unlikely to effect any change.
I think the last time the membership ever got fired up to do ANYTHING was when Larry Craig was voted off the board because of his airport men's room antics. Never mind that he single handedly prevented the reauthorization of the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban about a week before the sunset when a Republican majority Congress successfully amended it to an Industry Protection Bill he introduced.
If not for Craig, none of us would have a 6920, but because he was gay and liked to troll airport bathrooms for hookups the membership got rid of him quick. And that is pretty much the problem, lots of people in the NRA care more if somebody is gay than if he actually prevented the permanent reauthorization of the Clinton Ban.
Larry Craig should have become President of the NRA on that day. Would have solved LOTS of problems.
I don't recall demanding the NRA do anything for me unless wanting them to stop supporting laws and politicians that infringe on rights. On the latter, I have certainly been told by many of their members that joining and donating money is the key to making them stop.
Got my MAGA hat and going to the NRA Show Friday and have a great time.
Vote Trump in 2020 !!
Grand58742
04-24-19, 22:52
I have zero love for the NRA as of late. Wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if they went bankrupt.
However...
I do not want to see them fail because the anti-gun groups will call that their victory and go twice as hard against other pro-2A groups and politicians. And one thing we know is politicians will vote for whomever puts money in their pockets. Oh, I mean "reelection campaign" funds.
Screw Bloomberg and his stupidity. I want the NRA around just as a counter to him.
It's more like expecting a business you didn't hire to do anything for you. If you aren't a customer of McDonalds do you really feel it is within your rights to demand menu concessions?
If McDonalds called me every week to ask if I'd consider coming back for a Big Mac? Yes, I'd think that in that case, I can tell the caller that I won't return unless their food gets better and they get rid of the one employee who keeps coughing on the fries.
How about if I watch people keep going to McDonalds only to be disappointed in the food, yet being constantly told that they're the best/biggest restaurant in town, so I might as well eat there. No I'm not going to give them any money, despite being a former customer.
You would think that since Mickkie D's...err...the NRA is so interested in asking me to re-join or send money (I suspect they're more interested in my money), they'd then be interested in hearing some ideas for how to best court my donation and the donations of those like me. I got tired of the magatizements offering me 2 pages of hunting tips for every 5 pages of hype, low quality "collectible" plates and knives, and solicitations.
They also need an answer to this article and the PR around it.
If McDonalds called me every week to ask if I'd consider coming back for a Big Mac? Yes, I'd think that in that case, I can tell the caller that I won't return unless their food gets better and they get rid of the one employee who keeps coughing on the fries.
How about if I watch people keep going to McDonalds only to be disappointed in the food, yet being constantly told that they're the best/biggest restaurant in town, so I might as well eat there. No I'm not going to give them any money, despite being a former customer.
You would think that since Mickkie D's...err...the NRA is so interested in asking me to re-join or send money (I suspect they're more interested in my money), they'd then be interested in hearing some ideas for how to best court my donation and the donations of those like me. I got tired of the magatizements offering me 2 pages of hunting tips for every 5 pages of hype, low quality "collectible" plates and knives, and solicitations.
They also need an answer to this article and the PR around it.
So tell them as soon as they get on the "sporter clause" you are prepared to become a Life Member. Let them hear that 10,000 times and maybe they will get a clue.
Diamondback
04-25-19, 03:51
So tell them as soon as they get on the "sporter clause" you are prepared to become a Life Member. Let them hear that 10,000 times and maybe they will get a clue.
I got in on the $600 at $25/month Discount Rate Life plan so I might as well finish that course, but you can bet that when they start squawking at me to upgrade I'll throw down that card. "Until you either get Sporter Clause repealed or show me the Lawfare plan to get it killed in the courts, my money goes to SAF and GOA instead."
For the guys who grouse about telemarketing, I never gave them my phone number and the snailmails go straight to the shredder.
I got in on the $600 at $25/month Discount Rate Life plan so I might as well finish that course, but you can bet that when they start squawking at me to upgrade I'll throw down that card. "Until you either get Sporter Clause repealed or show me the Lawfare plan to get it killed in the courts, my money goes to SAF and GOA instead."
For the guys who grouse about telemarketing, I never gave them my phone number and the snailmails go straight to the shredder.
Honestly, after my Life membership, they get nothing from me. I tell them if I have money to give, it goes directly to the ILA.
Diamondback
04-25-19, 14:28
Honestly, after my Life membership, they get nothing from me. I tell them if I have money to give, it goes directly to the ILA.
After my Life is paid off, the only money they get from me is the costs of getting and maintaining my Instructor/Coach creds, course materials and incidentals for the GF and I participating in the Marksmanship Program. (Washington has a requirement about unlicensed non-citizens can only legally shoot in "organized shooting activity with written invitation" so NRAMP looks like her Golden Ticket to join me on the range once I have the creds to write her invites on my own say-so, but until then I have a couple range operators who've told me "tell us when and what and we'll cut you the invite anytime.") The real bucks... well, right now SAF seems to be delivering more courtroom return on the gun community's investment.
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 10:00
This is how dinosaurs head for the tar pit:
https://guntalk.com/news/politics/nra-meltdown
The current leadership at the NRA has put the organization in great danger. I honestly don't know if it can be saved -- at least, not in its current form. However, we definitely need it to survive. Now we will see if the board of directors has the guts to do what is needed.
The National Rifle Association is in serious trouble, and the NRA Board of Directors has only two options to save America's biggest civil rights organization.
Option 1. A majority of the Board circles the wagons in defense of Wayne LaPierre and his pals and tries to weather the storm. (They’ll fail, and the whole ship will sink.)
Option 2. A majority of the Board fires LaPierre and other executives (or accepts their resignations) and nullifies their contracts, suspends all vendor contracts pending thorough review and renegotiation, and purges culpable members of their own body – demonstrating a commitment to safeguarding NRA assets on behalf of the membership. (Plugging the holes and possibly saving the ship.)
Wayne LaPierre, the CEO of the NRA, along with fellow executives and outside contractors, (in particular Advertising agency Ackerman McQueen) has been recklessly shoveling money out of NRA coffers for decades – to the tune of possibly hundreds of millions of dollars. This has been done with the complicity of some of the NRA’s elected directors, the willful ignorance of others, and the active resistance of a few more.
The chicanery, mostly in the form of inflated executive salaries, sweetheart deals to friends and family, and routine payments to vendors for unspecified services, raised objections among loyal NRA staff members, but their questions and concerns were met with hostility and retribution. My father raised these exact concerns over 20 years ago when he was on the NRA Board of Directors, only to be pushed out of the leadership. As the problems got worse in recent years, NRA fell under increased scrutiny from reporters and regulators, leading some staff members to redouble efforts to raise alarms to the appropriate board committees. But these board members continued to sweep the improprieties under the rug, even after strong warnings from outside counsel that the organization was at risk of severe damage, particularly from New York regulators.
As a nonprofit chartered in New York, the NRA falls under New York law and the purview of the NRA-hating NY Attorney General. She has frequently expressed her desire to tear down the organization, and has been signaling a pending investigation into NRA finances.
In an effort to save the organization, some staff and former employees reluctantly shared some of their evidence with reporters, and a bombshell expose’ was published in The New Yorker in mid-April, just days after the NRA had filed a lawsuit against their long-time PR firm, Ackerman McQueen, suggesting that Ack-Mack had been taking advantage of some lax billing and conflict of interest policies at NRA. This was an obvious attempt to deflect blame for NRA’s financial woes – over $30 million in the red – and financial improprieties away from LaPierre and his executive team. All of this was followed by a formal request from Mike Bloomberg’s anti-gun conglomerate, calling on the IRS to launch a formal audit of the NRA’s tax exempt status.
There can be little doubt that the New York AG and others in positions of power will try to dismantle the NRA, regardless of what the board does. Our enemies see that we are wounded, and the vultures are circling. By cleaning their own house before any formal investigation, the board would demonstrate that they are living up to their fiduciary responsibilities, and that would go a long way toward mitigating the long-term damage from regulators.
The current NRA Board of Directors have a slim chance of saving the NRA from total ruin, but they must act swiftly and decisively.
They must expunge everyone involved in even the appearance of corruption. Including board members who failed in their oversight obligations and individuals like Josh Powell the genius behind many of the NRA's recent disasters like Carry Guard and a known manipulator of Wayne LaPierre's decision making. They must halt all outside contracts until they can be thoroughly reviewed and either canceled or renegotiated. As much as possible needs to be brought in-house and run under the direct oversight of the board. This action may mean the end of things like Ackerman McQueen run NRA-TV, so do not be surprised if they pack up shop one day soon.
All of the significant, life-threatening issues facing NRA revolve around just three operational areas: PR, fundraising, and political spending. Suspending operations in those three areas, and bringing them under tight, in-house control for the immediate future, would put the association back on stable ground and allow it to continue operating effectively.
There will undoubtedly be repercussions from all of this, including fines, sanctions, lawsuits, and possibly criminal indictments, but all of those repercussions are on their way, regardless of what the board does now. The difference is whether those consequences will be levied against an organization that still has the people who created those problems at the helm – people who will be using NRA resources to cover their tails – or an organization that has policed itself and taken corrective action to address its problems.
My take: I hate to compare the NRA to TV preachers, but this kind of crap is why I haven't given one penny to the NRA in over 25 years. I bust my ass to earn my money. I live modestly to say the least. Why would I donate my hard-earned money to people who use that money to finance wretched excess? I could smell the bloat and corruption in the NRA when the Brady Law and the 1994 AWB passed. Wayne LaPierre and his buddies were more concerned about saving their multi-thousand-dollar duck guns than protecting the rights of people who own black rifles. IF the NRA successfully reconfigures its existence into something leaner and more efficient, I might consider re-joining them. But I am NOT giving money to an organization to pay for expensive gourmet meals, high salaries, gifts, and other perks.
I hate to compare the NRA to TV preachers,
But the shoe certainly fits.
Doc (and others) - I wonder if this was why Pete Brownell resigned so quickly?
Apparently, LaPierre was asked to step down:
"As has been widely reported, the NRA is facing internal challenges, both financial and organizational. They’re suing their longtime marketing and PR firm, Ackerman McQueen and have been accused by opponents and some in the gun rights community of uncontrolled spending and a lack of institutional control by management and board members.
According to someone we’ve spoken to who’s in a position to know, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre met with influential board members and fund-raisers last night and was asked for his resignation. The meeting reportedly became heated and LaPierre stormed out. He then responded to the demand with a scathing letter to those involved, refusing to step down."
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/04/daniel-zimmerman/lapierre-refuses-to-step-down-after-nra-board-members-ask-for-his-resignation/?fbclid=IwAR1Rnqf0g_IU-peJ7DDnp2c4Oe0z48Ml2Yp47wL0zSedDRwOeOUxIts5X88
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 15:22
Apparently, LaPierre was asked to step down:
"As has been widely reported, the NRA is facing internal challenges, both financial and organizational. They’re suing their longtime marketing and PR firm, Ackerman McQueen and have been accused by opponents and some in the gun rights community of uncontrolled spending and a lack of institutional control by management and board members.
According to someone we’ve spoken to who’s in a position to know, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre met with influential board members and fund-raisers last night and was asked for his resignation. The meeting reportedly became heated and LaPierre stormed out. He then responded to the demand with a scathing letter to those involved, refusing to step down."
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/04/daniel-zimmerman/lapierre-refuses-to-step-down-after-nra-board-members-ask-for-his-resignation/?fbclid=IwAR1Rnqf0g_IU-peJ7DDnp2c4Oe0z48Ml2Yp47wL0zSedDRwOeOUxIts5X88
I see a huge black hole, and NRA is circling it.
They should have asked for his resignation in 1995.
At a time when we needed Superman, he decided to play Clark Kent. Great Big Puss. Except when they want to fire him.
Doc (and others) - I wonder if this was why Pete Brownell resigned so quickly?
I think Pete didn't like the politics of the whole thing. Some people see Pete as a dirty guy that wanted to get deeper in politics. I see a clean guy that didn't like what he saw of politics. I don't know him personally, but that's the impression I get reading the lines among numerous articles on the net.
On the circling the black hole thing. There are some really good guys and gals on the NRA board. (there's some major turds as well) Maybe an internal coupe is what is needed to right the ship. Honestly, there is a ton of infrastructure that the NRA has that will hurt all of us if it goes away, and I'm not just talking politics. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater at this point would be stupid.
The Friends of NRA grants MILLIONS of dollars per year to shooting ranges, shooting sports and shooting teams, the NRA itself is one of the largest providers of instruction certifications, and the ILA has been effective in many arenas.
There simply is not a pro-gun organization that could fill the void and in today's environment I'm not sure one could ever be formed again.
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 15:47
NRA made a genius move getting Charlton Heston. Maybe you could argue Ted Nugent is a positive icon for them.
But Grover Norquist has been dissed by Glenn Beck and others as a CAIR and Muslim Brotherhood flunkie. And Oliver North? Even if you believe he was innocent his reputation was tainted by doubt--hardly a role-model for an organization that prides itself on being the shining bastion of the law-abiding.
And NRA's victories? Have they ever won a "hard" fight? Hell, have they ever "fought" a hard fight? It seems like anytime they see themselves on the wrong side of being politically correct they've either caved, negotiated deals, or agreed with the gun grabbers (see: bump stocks).
People DIED establishing this country. Yet an organization like NRA that purports to be the prime defender of the Second Amendment to the Constitution sure doesn't seem to want to do anything but phone it in.
NRA made a genius move getting Charlton Heston. Maybe you could argue Ted Nugent is a positive icon for them.
But Grover Norquist has been dissed by Glenn Beck and others CAIR and Muslim Brotherhood flunkies. And Oliver North? Even if you believe he was innocent his reputation was tainted by doubt--hardly a role-model for an organization that prides itself on being the shining bastion of the law-abiding.
And NRA's victories? Have they ever won a "hard" fight? Hell, have they ever "fought" a hard fight? It seems like anytime they see themselves on the wrong side of being politically correct they've either caved, negotiated deals, or agreed with the gun grabbers (see: bump stocks).
People DIED establishing this country. Yet an organization like NRA that purports to be the prime defender of the Second Amendment to the Constitution sure doesn't seem to want to do anything but phone it in.
You dont think they played a role in 2013?
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 15:50
There simply is not a pro-gun organization that could fill the void and in today's environment I'm not sure one could ever be formed again.
And if people keep that attitude, there certainly won't be. Continuing to support the NRA is like continuing to date the fat chick because you know she will go out with you.
If people took their money and put it in GOA en masse then the NRA might become unnecessary.
And I know there are good people there: You get no argument from me on that.
But like someone once said, "What do you get if you mix clean water with dirty water? Dirty water." NRA either cleans house or it's toast.
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 15:52
You dont think they played a role in 2013?
A role, yes. But in the age of the internet there are just so many other voices fighting for the 2A that the message is loud and clear.
Being an NRA supporter is being an enabler in a co-dependent relationship. Sure they take your money and treat you like dirt, but they've told you for so many decades that they're the only ones who will take care of you and put up with you, you've come to accept it as truth.
Take ALL the money you give the NRA and give it to the other true 2A defense organizations. We'd be in a better place now that we are with the NRA as the "ONLY" ones keeping us from being disarmed. :rolleyes:
A role, yes. But in the age of the internet there are just so many other voices fighting for the 2A that the message is loud and clear.
I think you don't quite understand the power they have in washington. No other organization even comes close.
You don't have to support them but if they go bye bye we are done.
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 15:55
I seriously think the JPFO could give the NRA a run for its money, or at least from what I know of them from a few years ago. Could have changed I guess.
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 15:56
I think you don't quite understand the power they have in washington. No other organization even comes close.
You don't have to support them but if they go bye bye we are done.
Have fun staying married to an abusive spouse then. I bet there's a letter asking for money in your mailbox right now.
Have fun staying married to an abusive spouse then. I bet there's a letter asking for money in your mailbox right now.
That's fine. Its clear you don't understand washington which in this instance is all I care about. Unless there is a massive sea change among the populus (which I think most on this board would agree is going the opposite way) the best use of money is blocking new laws. That is done with lobbying power and if you think any of the other 2nd amendment organizations has even a little you're fooling yourself.
Any headway made will be done in the courts and guess who funds a lot of those lawsuits? I don't really care what any conservative thinks about Trump because when it's all over it will all have been about judges. Judges are the key to rolling back these laws.
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 16:18
Any headway made will be done in the courts and guess who funds a lot of those lawsuits? I don't really care what any conservative thinks about Trump because when it's all over it will all have been about judges. Judges are the key to rolling back these laws.
This is absolutely true. I honestly don't know that lobbying does as much as it used to. How many times have the Repubs caved in on more gun restrictions? Not all, to be sure, but how come our side is not in lock-step supporting the 2A as the Dems are in lock-step opposing it? The only front where we appear to be winning is in appointing conservative judges. The Heller decision was a huge win. HUGE.
Really?
Who supported the NFA.
Who supported the 68 GCA.
Who supported the machine gun ban.
Who supported and called for the bump stock ban.
Who is supporting and calling for Red Flag laws.
With friends like that who needs enemies.
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Yep...
They are feeding themselves at OUR expense.
[emoji35]
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This is absolutely true. I honestly don't know that lobbying does as much as it used to. How many times have the Repubs caved in on more gun restrictions? Not all, to be sure, but how come our side is not in lock-step supporting the 2A as the Dems are in lock-step opposing it? The only front where we appear to be winning is in appointing conservative judges. The Heller decision was a huge win. HUGE.
It's not that easy. There are a lot of Repubs that come from centrist districts that may not want to make it known where they stand on the issue. I need them in office more than I need them speaking out on the issue. They will hold the line when asked (or pressured by the NRA). We are on defence right now and we have to fight from a defensive position.
In my mind the NRA needs to focus on education and gun safety along with lobbying and lawsuits. Skeletor (Lapierre) is not winning hearts and minds of soccer moms but neither is any 2nd amendment organization. Education and gun safety is extremely important in bring the populous back into the fold.
As I said, nothing changes until Skeletor is gone. Hopefully they can get rid of him this week!
Doc Safari
04-26-19, 16:30
Maybe Chuck Norris can save the NRA as soon as he's done selling a ton of Glocks.
:lol:
I seriously think the JPFO could give the NRA a run for its money, or at least from what I know of them from a few years ago. Could have changed I guess.
One problem, most people have heard of the NRA, nobody in Washington knows what the JPFO even is.
Diamondback
04-26-19, 21:12
This is absolutely true. I honestly don't know that lobbying does as much as it used to. How many times have the Repubs caved in on more gun restrictions? Not all, to be sure, but how come our side is not in lock-step supporting the 2A as the Dems are in lock-step opposing it? The only front where we appear to be winning is in appointing conservative judges. The Heller decision was a huge win. HUGE.
True, but even that was Second Amendment Foundation ramming it up NRA's ass without lube. SAF is the real prime mover in the Lawfare.
This should not divide us. If you let it divide us you are falling into their trap. Support both the NRA and GOA and any other legitimate force helping keep the .gov at bay.
The answer isn't one or the other, it is both.
No, the NRA isn't perfect, GOA isn't perfect either. The NRA has made mistakes in the past and I expect they will make more. Doesn't change the fact that if the NRA loses, we all lose.
Why so many gun owners are binary is confounding to me. It is exactly why we keep losing. Let's stroll back in time to the summer of 2016 when so many were against Trump. Well, regardless of his imperfections, he's the most conservative President we've had in a very long time. Yes, including the stupid, utterly unenforceable bump stock ban. Yet, many of you continue the quest for the perfect candidate.
We'd all be better off if you just didn't vote.
Diamondback
04-26-19, 21:28
First thing the NRA needs to do is shove the Frenchman Fudd onto his sword by force, since he told a meeting of boardmembers asking for his resignation to f--- off just today.
Second, re-charter anywhere BUT New York.
Third, bring in forensic accountants to figure out where the money went and bring legal action against those who violated their fiduciary duties.
We know nothing changes until Lapierre's scalp is run up the flagpole.
True, but even that was Second Amendment Foundation ramming it up NRA's ass without lube. SAF is the real prime mover in the Lawfare.
Guess where Alan Gottlieb and the SAF booth is today? That's right, the NRA national convention.
This should not divide us. If you let it divide us you are falling into their trap. Support both the NRA and GOA and any other legitimate force helping keep the .gov at bay.
The answer isn't one or the other, it is both.
No, the NRA isn't perfect, GOA isn't perfect either. The NRA has made mistakes in the past and I expect they will make more. Doesn't change the fact that if the NRA loses, we all lose.
Why so many gun owners are binary is confounding to me. It is exactly why we keep losing. Let's stroll back in time to the summer of 2016 when so many were against Trump. Well, regardless of his imperfections, he's the most conservative President we've had in a very long time. Yes, including the stupid, utterly unenforceable bump stock ban. Yet, many of you continue the quest for the perfect candidate.
We'd all be better off if you just didn't vote.
Amen. Very well said.
HEY NRA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9uizdKZAGE
CNN just had someone being interviewed about the Ollie North v. LaPierre struggle and the fact that North is stepping down. The host had this shit eating smirk on his face while he said, “it certainly is interesting. We will have to see what happens.”
HEY NRA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9uizdKZAGE
The one cup of coffee Google challenge... 2018, immediately filed a lawsuit against Florida's law raising firearms purchasing age to 21. Supported Ron DeSantis for the governor's race, which he won despite the Parkland shooting. Through a massive advertising campaign, put the brakes on the wave of gun control measures in the wake of Parkland (just like they have for every other mass shooting..other than bumpstocks which pissed me off too). Filed suit with the SFA against Washington 1639 and a half dozen other lawsuits in Washington challenging various gun control laws and release of information about gun owners. Involved in no less than 12 lawsuits in California against CA gun control measures. NRA backed legislation in OK, SD and KY gets constitutional carry in those states. NRA backed candidates for the Senate and House won 106 and lost 33 races. Big wins like Braun in Indiana helped secure a gun rights safe Senate.
I found that in 10 minutes...typed and drank coffee at the same time.
State level groups.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-states/local-gun-groups-flex-muscle-in-state-politics-sidestepping-the-nra-idUSKCN1MI12G
AKDoug: If the NRA is so awesome, why cant I buy tommy guns and Colt Monitors like dude did in Highwaymen?
I would actually pay the cuck tax for a brand new 240 if sold at cost.
State level groups.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-states/local-gun-groups-flex-muscle-in-state-politics-sidestepping-the-nra-idUSKCN1MI12G
Still, even its critics in the gun-rights movement concede the NRA, with more than 5 million members, is by far the most powerful and well-connected gun lobby. It has protected firearms manufacturers from liability for gun violence and pushed a ban on U.S. health officials from promoting gun control. In 2005 it shepherded through Florida’s landmark “stand your ground” law, then repeated the feat in nearly half the states.
It is time for a better NRA, but not the time to abolish it. Abolishing it will further embolden the anti-gunners. Can you imagine the political hay the anti-gunners would reap if they took down the NRA? It would be the first domino and local gun groups wouldn't stand a chance.
It is time for a better NRA, but not the time to abolish it. Abolishing it will further embolden the anti-gunners. Can you imagine the political hay the anti-gunners would reap if they took down the NRA? It would be the first domino and local gun groups wouldn't stand a chance.
I agree. Wayne, and his minions have to go, if Ollie North is stepping down, that's another plus,I was never very comfortable having him invloved. The NRA needs some new faces who do more than preach the choir..The article on the first page gave some insight on how to take the NRA out..simply by removing their non profit status, if there are as the article stated, lots of red flags, and if it dosen't stop, you can bet the next democrat president will order the IRS to look into it, and, remove their non profit status, and, they'll fold up in a matter of months,if not weeks.This is why a housecleaning is sorely needed. If Wayne dosen't want to step down voluntarily, then the board should vote to forceably remove him, one way or another Wayne and his corrupt buddies need to go, and go now. If they don't they will continue to bleed the NRA dry, until there's nothing left. I don't think the NRA could make it through a federal investgation, especially if it was run by Democrats, and I think that's where this is going to end up if a housecleaning isn't done soon...
It is time for a better NRA, but not the time to abolish it. Abolishing it will further embolden the anti-gunners. Can you imagine the political hay the anti-gunners would reap if they took down the NRA? It would be the first domino and local gun groups wouldn't stand a chance.
I didn't say anything about abolishing it. It won't be a better NRA by continuing on as usual though.
AKDoug: If the NRA is so awesome, why cant I buy tommy guns and Colt Monitors like dude did in Highwaymen?
I would actually pay the cuck tax for a brand new 240 if sold at cost.
Actually YOU CAN. YOU just have to find one and pay out the ass for the rare/collector price.
However, IF NOT for the NRA you wouldn't even have that option. Here is what Hughes and Rodino were trying to pass in 1986.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?138963-H-R-3155-Racketeer-Weapons-and-Violent-Crime-Control-Act
No grandfathering, nothing. Those that own them, own them till they die and cannot transfer them to anyone. That means those who owned machine guns in 1986 would be the last people to ever own machine guns. Oh and suppressors too.
The FOPA version came around and the NRA told Reagan to sign it because a "better deal" wasn't coming and a terrible deal was the alternative.
It is time for a better NRA, but not the time to abolish it. Abolishing it will further embolden the anti-gunners. Can you imagine the political hay the anti-gunners would reap if they took down the NRA? It would be the first domino and local gun groups wouldn't stand a chance.
You're right. But because the NRA is so big, and because so many people think that should just accept their poor management, cronyism, and ineffectiveness because they're the biggest group "defending our rights", it's going to be difficult.
No one wins a war by staying on the defensive. I want an NRA that is looking to not only preserve our rights but expand them, or at least reclaim what we've lost over the years.
Steyr mentioned a ways back that I should tell the next caller that I'll sign up for life if they get the sporter clause removed. How about the NFA? Where are we on the Hearing Protection Act?
Here's what my small monkey brain came up with as ideas for improvement:
1. LaPierre and North need to go
2. NRA leadership has to embrace a more transparent accounting model, where every dollar that goes towards political action, legal fees, advertising, and lobbying has to be tracked, justified, and publically available. Beat them to the punch. "You want to see our numbers? Fine they're on our website; we cleaned house a couple years back and have nothing to hide."
3. Move its main offices off of the east coast. It's a toxic environment. Not only are the local politics inimical, but any locally sourced employees will be suspect.
4. Dump or reinvent the School Shield and Carry Guard programs.
5. Re-frame the narrative with the youth. Something like this: you think this President is a fascist? Look at Nazi Germany. Look at Pol Pot, etc. what did each fascist regime begin by doing? Yup. Firearms confiscation. Now look forward 50, 100, heck just 20 years. Imagine a true dictator in America. Someone who you revile, who is curtailing free speech, searching homes, seizing property, censoring the press, locking up dissidents. This is what the 2nd Amendment was for; Let not the next generation lament a choice to disarm made by this one."
6. Along the same veins, court new members, especially the youth, women (esp. mothers), and minorities. The 2nd protects those who are most vulnerable. Imagine an ad that shows a minority or LGBTQ person being assaulted until they access their CCW or get the AR out of safekeeping and hold their ground (not necessarily shooting). How about a parent (pan past photos on a mantle of spouse deployed) getting kid into car and driving to school. As they're dropping junior off, someone starts popping off rounds.
7. Publically or not, embrace that more members own modern sporting rifles. Leadership has to make peace/amends for the bump stock turd (take em or leave em, it was a turd).
8. As the membership shifts to millennials and hipsters, focus the publications and news on self defense, gun and personal defense technology, and hunting as organic/sustainable food procurement. Less "safaris for under $20k", "handloading for the .30-40 Krag", and "lead is now ok for hunting migratory birds on protected wetlands; you're welcome".
9. Find, take up, and win a bigger battle, as listed above.
10. Equate NRA membership with any other civil liberty protection membership. They protect each other, together they protect us all.
You're right. But because the NRA is so big, and because so many people think that should just accept their poor management, cronyism, and ineffectiveness because they're the biggest group "defending our rights", it's going to be difficult.
No one wins a war by staying on the defensive. I want an NRA that is looking to not only preserve our rights but expand them, or at least reclaim what we've lost over the years.
Steyr mentioned a ways back that I should tell the next caller that I'll sign up for life if they get the sporter clause removed. How about the NFA? Where are we on the Hearing Protection Act?
Here's what my small monkey brain came up with as ideas for improvement:
1. LaPierre and North need to go
2. NRA leadership has to embrace a more transparent accounting model, where every dollar that goes towards political action, legal fees, advertising, and lobbying has to be tracked, justified, and publically available. Beat them to the punch. "You want to see our numbers? Fine they're on our website; we cleaned house a couple years back and have nothing to hide."
3. Move its main offices off of the east coast. It's a toxic environment. Not only are the local politics inimical, but any locally sourced employees will be suspect.
4. Dump or reinvent the School Shield and Carry Guard programs.
5. Re-frame the narrative with the youth. Something like this: you think this President is a fascist? Look at Nazi Germany. Look at Pol Pot, etc. what did each fascist regime begin by doing? Yup. Firearms confiscation. Now look forward 50, 100, heck just 20 years. Imagine a true dictator in America. Someone who you revile, who is curtailing free speech, searching homes, seizing property, censoring the press, locking up dissidents. This is what the 2nd Amendment was for; Let not the next generation lament a choice to disarm made by this one."
6. Along the same veins, court new members, especially the youth, women (esp. mothers), and minorities. The 2nd protects those who are most vulnerable. Imagine an ad that shows a minority or LGBTQ person being assaulted until they access their CCW or get the AR out of safekeeping and hold their ground (not necessarily shooting). How about a parent (pan past photos on a mantle of spouse deployed) getting kid into car and driving to school. As they're dropping junior off, someone starts popping off rounds.
7. Publically or not, embrace that more members own modern sporting rifles. Leadership has to make peace/amends for the bump stock turd (take em or leave em, it was a turd).
8. As the membership shifts to millennials and hipsters, focus the publications and news on self defense, gun and personal defense technology, and hunting as organic/sustainable food procurement. Less "safaris for under $20k", "handloading for the .30-40 Krag", and "lead is now ok for hunting migratory birds on protected wetlands; you're welcome".
9. Find, take up, and win a bigger battle, as listed above.
10. Equate NRA membership with any other civil liberty protection membership. They protect each other, together they protect us all.
I agree with almost all of that EXCEPT the transparency part. They need to be transparent but Bloomberg doesn't need to know how much the spend, where they spend it or how many shekels they have in the bank. There has to be a way to balance out the need for good stewardship vs. letting everyone know you're ever secret. A regular audit by a good firm with reports that state "Sound internal controls" "Sufficient cash flow and assets for operations" etc....would do the job.
The day I can buy me a new 240 with no BS is the day I renew my cuckscription
The day I can buy me a new 240 with no BS is the day I renew my cuckscription
The day you can buy a new 240 is the day the NRA will no longer need you as a member. You are free to do as you like, and I won't criticize, but it sorta does work both ways. Not like the ACLU is going to be doing anything about your M240 anytime soon.
Actually YOU CAN. YOU just have to find one and pay out the ass for the rare/collector price.
However, IF NOT for the NRA you wouldn't even have that option. Here is what Hughes and Rodino were trying to pass in 1986.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?138963-H-R-3155-Racketeer-Weapons-and-Violent-Crime-Control-Act
No grandfathering, nothing. Those that own them, own them till they die and cannot transfer them to anyone. That means those who owned machine guns in 1986 would be the last people to ever own machine guns. Oh and suppressors too.
The FOPA version came around and the NRA told Reagan to sign it because a "better deal" wasn't coming and a terrible deal was the alternative.
We get it Steyr the NRA did us a quasi solid 30 years ago. They still suck.
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We get it Steyr the NRA did us a quasi solid 30 years ago. They still suck.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok man, you win.
The NRA sucks. Hey that fixed everything. We have our rights back...oh wait.
Seriously, if you have a better plan, please clue us in. Cause right now the NRA is the only thing doing anything at all. That means as much as the NRA is ineffective, everyone else (except for possibly the Cato Institute) is doing even less.
I like the GOA, I like JPFO, I like a lot of other groups. Problem is Congress never even heard of them. And if everyone in the NRA switched to the GOA it wouldn't change much, it would take Congress another 10 years to realize they are a thing, and by then the GOA would be just another mostly ineffectual lobby.
So if you have a better plan than "The NRA Sucks" then let's have it. Because the NRA can suck with or without you.
Interesting the media and politicians lie about everything down to the smallest detail except when they talk about the NRA being a stumbling block to more gun control.
Grand58742
04-28-19, 08:58
Tangent, but related.
I'm really glad New York is so crime free it gives them a chance to go after the NRA.
https://apnews.com/abfecc7f1d56498d8b4a1aee6b1f84d8
The whole drama is a yawner. I’m confident that this kind of behind-the-scenes cronyism and slimy politics in an organization with as much money, power, and influence as the NRA has been going on for decades. Are any of you actually surprised?
Exactly the NRA can suck with or without us. They get too comfortable at times.
I figure we should all just save our money and directly bribe lawmakers and cut out the middleman.
Whydafuk all these people living in McManansions in NoVA and I canr have a 240. I NEED a 240. I have a legitimate need. Not a want nor a desire. Like a need. And NRA hasnt done anything about it.
I wish we could start our own group and just bribe people
Tangent, but related.
I'm really glad New York is so crime free it gives them a chance to go after the NRA.
https://apnews.com/abfecc7f1d56498d8b4a1aee6b1f84d8
While I get the jist of it, if you are a member and there seems to be malfeasance that the organization's hierarchy isn't concerned about, why would you not want it getting investigated?
Grand58742
04-28-19, 10:11
While I get the jist of it, if you are a member and there seems to be malfeasance that the organization's hierarchy isn't concerned about, why would you not want it getting investigated?
You trust New York to do an impartial investigation?
I sure as hell don't.
You trust New York to do an impartial investigation?
I sure as hell don't.
I really doubt it too. I am not sure if that is due to NY state going after an opponent or faking going after a friend though. This will result in a huge influx of donations to NRA either way.
Do you think NRA's activities match how they advertise/portray themselves?
Here's my take, from an old fashioned Goldwater/Reagan Conservative. I'm an NRA Life Member and I am concerned about the potential corruption within that organization. Money seems to do that to the best of us. My bigger concern is the erosion of our traditional institutions that we have looked up to and counted on to represent the average American who just want to continue enjoying the benefits our society has offered. It's like everything is slowly falling apart - from all directions, at the Federal and State levels, and perhaps even in local communities.
People like myself, who have been involved politically by voting, supporting candidates and organizations with time and money, are now starting to retract, pulling inward and looking at ways to weather the storm with close friends and family. For someone who has always been optimistic, I am getting a little pessimistic.
Diamondback
04-28-19, 17:02
You're right. But because the NRA is so big, and because so many people think that should just accept their poor management, cronyism, and ineffectiveness because they're the biggest group "defending our rights", it's going to be difficult.
No one wins a war by staying on the defensive. I want an NRA that is looking to not only preserve our rights but expand them, or at least reclaim what we've lost over the years.
Steyr mentioned a ways back that I should tell the next caller that I'll sign up for life if they get the sporter clause removed. How about the NFA? Where are we on the Hearing Protection Act?
Here's what my small monkey brain came up with as ideas for improvement:
1. LaPierre and North need to go
2. NRA leadership has to embrace a more transparent accounting model, where every dollar that goes towards political action, legal fees, advertising, and lobbying has to be tracked, justified, and publically available. Beat them to the punch. "You want to see our numbers? Fine they're on our website; we cleaned house a couple years back and have nothing to hide."
3. Move its main offices off of the east coast. It's a toxic environment. Not only are the local politics inimical, but any locally sourced employees will be suspect.
4. Dump or reinvent the School Shield and Carry Guard programs.
5. Re-frame the narrative with the youth. Something like this: you think this President is a fascist? Look at Nazi Germany. Look at Pol Pot, etc. what did each fascist regime begin by doing? Yup. Firearms confiscation. Now look forward 50, 100, heck just 20 years. Imagine a true dictator in America. Someone who you revile, who is curtailing free speech, searching homes, seizing property, censoring the press, locking up dissidents. This is what the 2nd Amendment was for; Let not the next generation lament a choice to disarm made by this one."
6. Along the same veins, court new members, especially the youth, women (esp. mothers), and minorities. The 2nd protects those who are most vulnerable. Imagine an ad that shows a minority or LGBTQ person being assaulted until they access their CCW or get the AR out of safekeeping and hold their ground (not necessarily shooting). How about a parent (pan past photos on a mantle of spouse deployed) getting kid into car and driving to school. As they're dropping junior off, someone starts popping off rounds.
7. Publically or not, embrace that more members own modern sporting rifles. Leadership has to make peace/amends for the bump stock turd (take em or leave em, it was a turd).
8. As the membership shifts to millennials and hipsters, focus the publications and news on self defense, gun and personal defense technology, and hunting as organic/sustainable food procurement. Less "safaris for under $20k", "handloading for the .30-40 Krag", and "lead is now ok for hunting migratory birds on protected wetlands; you're welcome".
9. Find, take up, and win a bigger battle, as listed above.
10. Equate NRA membership with any other civil liberty protection membership. They protect each other, together they protect us all.
All good, but even before all that they need to have the lawyers re-establish with a new Charter somewhere outside New York. Wyoming would do nicely.
RE #8, IIRC they used to HAVE a CCW/self-defense focused mag, "American Defender" or somesuch, and they killed it. Having AWB-fan Fudds like Joaquin Jackson (is he still there?) on the BOD doesn't help much either. Also, when you look at th so-called "bennies" they offer... do you know ANYBODY who uses their Wine Club? That just reeks of a kickback to somebody's buddy... so they should look more to partner with companies that fit the MEMBERS' interests rather than those of the employees/BOD/Ack-Mac. Maybe look into something like an "Ammunition Subscription" program or something we're likely to use, maybe do a deal with Magpul for special NRA Limited Edition PMAGs or a "Mag-Of-The-Month Club" or something.
As for the excessive compensation, I bet many of us here could fill staff jobs for far less--hell, take care of my relo and costs-of-living, and help with getting my GF a green-card and put her on the rolls as my file clerk/assistant, and I'll sign on for minimum wage plus ten percent. The FIRST qualification for NRA employment should be "are you a Second Amendment activist?"
AKDoug: If the NRA is so awesome, why cant I buy tommy guns and Colt Monitors like dude did in Highwaymen?
I would actually pay the cuck tax for a brand new 240 if sold at cost.
Because then or now, too many gun owners think NRA can wave a magic wand and make all gun control go away. Unfortunately, it does not work that way. Actual gun owners have to be politically active and elect pro-gunners (NRA has ZERO votes in elections), defeat anti-gunners, and lobby for against gun legislation.
No longer issuing new anti-2nd amendment statements.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquin_Jackson
A shame that he had a stump to stand on for that and no telling how much damage he did to it over his lifetime.
Because then or now, too many gun owners think NRA can wave a magic wand and make all gun control go away. Unfortunately, it does not work that way. Actual gun owners have to be politically active and elect pro-gunners (NRA has ZERO votes in elections), defeat anti-gunners, and lobby for against gun legislation.
No one said anything about a magic wand to control anyone else's anti-2nd Amendment machinations.
On the then, they were formed due to being upset that northern marksmanship was not up to par and the Federal government wasn't able to put down the southern states faster as a result. Expanding federal authority certainly isn't an effort coinciding with the spirit of the 2nd Amendment and the "then" focus was clearly stated by Franklin Orth in 1968, "The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871."
Up until the early 1970's they were very actively and openly pushing for 2nd Amendment infringements from local up through federal levels. Only after a guy got shot by a combined local and federal raiding party (based on a bogus tip from a thief) did they latch on to the current fundraising scheme. For awhile Neal Knox attempted to have them make good on their claims and that of course ended up with him getting ousted.
Since that time, they have paid lip service to the 2nd Amendment, but always end up doing things like endorsing anti-gun politicians and laws to infringe on the 2nd Amendment. Those actions they do have control over, but continue to do them anyway.
No one said anything about a magic wand to control anyone else's anti-2nd Amendment machinations.
No, nobody did. Nor did I say anybody did.
No, nobody did. Nor did I say anybody did.
Well, not sure who you were talking about then.
Because then or now, too many gun owners think NRA can wave a magic wand and make all gun control go away.
Well, not sure who you were talking about then.
Well you must have missed it. Here it is again, "too many gun owners..."
Doc (and others) - I wonder if this was why Pete Brownell resigned so quickly?
Perhaps like Russ Howard 20 years ago?
https://rense.com/politics6/nra.htm
Well you must have missed it. Here it is again, "too many gun owners..."
That sounds more like NRA PR, officially and from some of there more zealous members. At least up until the next failure happens and those engaging in the behavior shift blame away from NRA to anywhere they can.
Ok, so we should be doing WHAT instead of being in the NRA?
What is the better plan? This is directed to ANYONE?
Hell I'll even accept why NOT being in the NRA is more effective than being in the NRA.
This is a lot of the same "I don't like Republicans because I didn't agree with the primaries" shit.
Ok, so we should be doing WHAT instead of being in the NRA?
What is the better plan? This is directed to ANYONE?
Hell I'll even accept why NOT being in the NRA is more effective than being in the NRA.
This is a lot of the same "I don't like Republicans because I didn't agree with the primaries" shit.
I suppose it could be worth changing NRA from what it always has been to something it never wanted to be.
Good analogy with the republicans. Lock step support of anything guarantees no deviation from the path they are on since it reinforces their behavior.
Diamondback
04-28-19, 22:13
If you don't have a membership you don't have a vote--that's the other reason I took out a Life Membership, to vote for change and unseat Wanker Wayne's cronies on the BOD.
Are you a VOTING Member? If not, WHY not? Basically, what we need is a massive infusion of new VM's to "buy out" the NRA and systematically purge LaPierre's minions whenever they come up for election. Once we install new blood as a majority of the BOD, we can start cleaning house.
Ok man, you win.
The NRA sucks. Hey that fixed everything. We have our rights back...oh wait.
Seriously, if you have a better plan, please clue us in. Cause right now the NRA is the only thing doing anything at all. That means as much as the NRA is ineffective, everyone else (except for possibly the Cato Institute) is doing even less.
I like the GOA, I like JPFO, I like a lot of other groups. Problem is Congress never even heard of them. And if everyone in the NRA switched to the GOA it wouldn't change much, it would take Congress another 10 years to realize they are a thing, and by then the GOA would be just another mostly ineffectual lobby.
So if you have a better plan than "The NRA Sucks" then let's have it. Because the NRA can suck with or without you.
^^Truth^^
If you don't have a membership you don't have a vote--that's the other reason I took out a Life Membership, to vote for change and unseat Wanker Wayne's cronies on the BOD.
Are you a VOTING Member? If not, WHY not? Basically, what we need is a massive infusion of new VM's to "buy out" the NRA and systematically purge LaPierre's minions whenever they come up for election. Once we install new blood as a majority of the BOD, we can start cleaning house.
Been hearing that same thing since the mid to late 1990's and the membership numbers have increased, but no change in how things operate.
Diamondback
04-28-19, 22:53
Been hearing that same thing since the mid to late 1990's and the membership numbers have increased, but no change in how things operate.
The other problem is lack of coordination among us who seek to Dethrone the King--we need to all settle on one slate of BOD nominees, or maybe just Blacklist anybody who the BOD recommends.
ETA: Not every member is a VOTING member, remember? IIRC voting is limited to either paid-in-full Life or five consecutive unbroken years of annual--and I've known guys who because of having their payments mislaid at NRA HQ were told "too bad, no vot for you this year, sucks to be you, try again in 5." For these purposes, only VOTING members count...
The other problem is lack of coordination among us who seek to Dethrone the King--we need to all settle on one slate of BOD nominees, or maybe just Blacklist anybody who the BOD recommends.
ETA: Not every member is a VOTING member, remember? IIRC voting is limited to either paid-in-full Life or five consecutive unbroken years of annual--and I've known guys who because of having their payments mislaid at NRA HQ were told "too bad, no vot for you this year, sucks to be you, try again in 5." For these purposes, only VOTING members count...
Sounds like the influx of funds they need to keep on doing the same job they have always done.
Sounds like the GOP, get us the House and we will clean up, Then get us the Senate and we will show them, Then give us
the Presidency and blah,blah,blah, same ole, same ole.
The NRA need a leader that is sort of like Trump (the good aspect, not the whoring, tweeting fool) that will drain their swamp.
Doc Safari
04-29-19, 11:19
The NRA need a leader that is sort of like Trump (the good aspect, not the whoring, tweeting fool) that will drain their swamp.
Perfect assessment. Any suggestions that might find their way back to the people doin' the choosin'?
Ok man, you win.
The NRA sucks. Hey that fixed everything. We have our rights back...oh wait.
Seriously, if you have a better plan, please clue us in. Cause right now the NRA is the only thing doing anything at all. That means as much as the NRA is ineffective, everyone else (except for possibly the Cato Institute) is doing even less.
I like the GOA, I like JPFO, I like a lot of other groups. Problem is Congress never even heard of them. And if everyone in the NRA switched to the GOA it wouldn't change much, it would take Congress another 10 years to realize they are a thing, and by then the GOA would be just another mostly ineffectual lobby.
So if you have a better plan than "The NRA Sucks" then let's have it. Because the NRA can suck with or without you.
That statement is disingenuous at best. The Second Amendment Foundation has been instrumental in several legal battles where the NRA was MIA. The same goes for the CCRKBA.
My disillusionment with the NRA reached peak frustration around the time the NRA was weakly trying and failing to press advantages, to expand the 2nd Amendment's power in the courts. Meanwhile Alan Gura was pretty much single handedly kicking ass and taking names. SAF financially supported Gura, where was the NRA? Speaking of the NRA, when was Stephen Halbrook's last major court win?
I was at peak saturation on NRA panhandling and yet the leaders winning at that time, weren't on the NRA payroll or support? If you're the "leading" 2nd Amendment defense org and have the biggest war chest, I kind of expect you to, you know, LEAD!
I was a voting member at the time and I was actively voting against the LaPierre bloc. It was in vain. I find no connection between myself and this New York born, Boston College educated, draft dodging, career political lobbyist who uses the NRA as his personal slush fund. So I stopped sending him my money, because it literally felt like I was sending HIM my money. Two plus decades as an NRA member and enough was enough.
Yep, I am an ex-NRA member and not ashamed to say it. Now if the NRA wants to oust LaPierre and his acolytes, get their financial affairs in order (as in an outside forensic accounting firm auditing their books) and resuming a true leadership role by going on the offense, then I'll gladly resume my membership and contributing to their fundraisers. Until that happens, I'll send my hard earned money elsewhere.
The NRA need a leader that is sort of like Trump (the good aspect, not the whoring, tweeting fool) that will drain their swamp.
The NRA membership needs a covert intelligence operative on the BoD to expose the dirty dealings by the current NRA "leadership". Sunshine is a sorely needed disinfectant in Fairfax, VA. :(
Meanwhile Alan Gura was pretty much single handedly kicking ass and taking names. SAF financially supported Gura, where was the NRA? Speaking of the NRA, when was Stephen Halbrook's last major court win?
Gura and Heller come to mind anytime someone gives an example of the NRA "winning" anything. Seen mention of several state level groups carrying the load from the beginning with the NRA coming in near the end to claim victory. That is when the NRA isn't trying to undermine another group which Gura/Heller is also a reminder of.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
Gura and Heller come to mind anytime someone gives an example of the NRA "winning" anything. Seen mention of several state level groups carrying the load from the beginning with the NRA coming in near the end to claim victory. That is when the NRA isn't trying to undermine another group which Gura/Heller is also a reminder of.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
Obviously Dick Heller has forgiven the NRA, because he was in attendance at the convention, along with the Second Amendment Foundation.
Obviously Dick Heller has forgiven the NRA, because he was in attendance at the convention, along with the Second Amendment Foundation.
that is nice that he has forgiven them I guess, but it still doesn't change the fact of what they did do and attempted to do and that they have engaged in similar behavior in other incidents as well.
Obviously Dick Heller has forgiven the NRA, because he was in attendance at the convention, along with the Second Amendment Foundation.
I'm sure the NRA sucked up to them real nice, after looking like fools for not being there for them in the first place. :(
that is nice that he has forgiven them I guess, but it still doesn't change the fact of what they did do and attempted to do and that they have engaged in similar behavior in other incidents as well.
I'm sure the NRA sucked up to them real nice, after looking like fools for not being there for them in the first place. :(
Of maybe, just maybe, Dick Heller isn't as pissed at the NRA as you guys are.
Of maybe, just maybe, Dick Heller isn't as pissed at the NRA as you guys are.
That is very possible. I am sure many people support them 100% no matter what they do.
bringing this back from the dead with this article on the continuing saga:
Even as the National Rifle Association (NRA) has been consumed by relentless and increasingly public infighting, Wayne LaPierre has maintained a firm grip on its leadership.
Now one of the gun group’s major benefactors says he is preparing to lead an insurgency among wealthy contributors to oust Mr LaPierre as chief executive, along with his senior leadership team.
Such a rebellion would represent a troublesome new threat to Mr LaPierre, as his organisation’s finances and vaunted political machine are being strained amid a host of legal battles, most notably the New York attorney general’s investigation into its tax-exempt status.
David Dell’Aquila, the restive donor, said the NRA’s internal warfare “has become a daily soap opera, and it’s decaying and destroying the NRA from within, and it needs to stop”.
He added, “Even if these allegations regarding Mr LaPierre and his leadership are false, he has become radioactive and must step down.”
Until that happens, Mr Dell’Aquila, a retired technology consultant who has given roughly $100,000 (£80,000) to the NRA in cash and gifts, said he would suspend donations — including his pledge of the bulk of an estate worth several million dollars.
He said he was among a network of wealthy NRA donors who would cumulatively withhold more than $134 million (£106 million) in pledges, much of it earmarked years in advance through estate planning, and would soon give the gun group’s board a list of demands for reform.
That figure could not be verified, however, and Mr Dell’Aquila declined to provide a list of the other donors, who he said were not ready to go public.
But a second prominent donor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is a senior firearms industry executive, said he was also suspending a plan to give more than $2 million (£1.6 million) from his estate, as well as halting other donations, and was backing Mr Dell’Aquila’s effort.
“The donors are rebelling,” the executive said, adding that he believed that the leadership turmoil was “helping to destroy, temporarily, the strength of the NRA as one of the strongest lobbying groups”.
The extent of any rebellion is difficult to discern, and the NRA insisted it still had the firm backing of its donor base.
Mr LaPierre has also retained the support of the NRA’s 76-member board, with fewer than a handful of public defections, and it would take a three-fourths vote by the board and one of its committees to oust him.
But there have been signs of wavering grassroots support, including a recent announcement by Greg Kinman, a gun enthusiast with more than 4 million followers on YouTube, that he was cutting ties with the NRA.
The turmoil of recent months has already stoked fear among some Republicans that the NRA’s political potency could be blunted heading into the 2020 elections.
In a tweet early on Tuesday morning, President Donald Trump assailed the investigation by the New York attorney general, Letitia James, saying the NRA was “a victim of harassment by the AG”.
Carolyn Meadows, the NRA’s president, said in a statement that “we are disappointed whenever donors choose to suspend their support of the NRA, but we hope to win them back.”
She added: “People may resist change, but they embrace progress. We’re experiencing that right now at the NRA. There’s an energy within the NRA. that is hard to describe — and we continue to earn the support of millions of loyal members.”
The support of donors and the enthusiasm among NRA members will be a crucial test for Mr LaPierre, who has led the organisation for more than two decades.
Last month, Mr LaPierre ousted his second-in-command, Christopher W Cox, who led the gun group’s lobbying arm; in April, the NRA’s president, Oliver North, abruptly stepped down.
Both men have been implicated by the NRA in a plot to force Mr LaPierre out, though Mr Cox has denied the allegations. Mr North has said the NRA needs to review its financial practices; NRA officials have said the split with Mr North was largely a dispute over money.
Both Mr Dell’Aquila and the second donor want Mr Cox to return to the NRA and become its chief executive.
“He brings continuity and stability,” Mr Dell’Aquila said, adding that Mr Cox had emerged from the recent wave of scandals with cleaner hands than Mr LaPierre. “We can get consensus with Chris replacing Wayne.”
Mr Dell’Aquila said he had not spoken to Mr Cox about the matter and had not seen him since a fundraiser last year.
The NRA is moving on from Mr Cox and is expected to announce on Tuesday that Jason Ouimet, a deputy at its lobbying arm, will assume Mr Cox’s former post, according to a person with knowledge of the appointment.
The NRA has been burdened by high structural costs and escalating legal bills as it copes with the New York investigation and a bitter legal fight with its former advertising firm, Ackerman McQueen.
The NRA’s member dues fell in 2017 to their lowest level in a half-decade, as concerns about gun control ebbed after Trump’s election, but they rebounded last year, increasing by a third, to $170 million (£135 million), while contributions grew by 24 percent to $165 million (£130 million).
Even so, the NRA’s net assets fell sharply last year, and the organisation was forced to freeze its pension fund.
It also took more than $30 million (£23.8 million) out of its charitable foundation in 2017; it recently increased a line of credit, backed by the deed to its headquarters, to $28 million (£22 million); and it borrowed against life insurance policies taken out on top executives.
In a series of interviews and emails, Mr Dell’Aquila cited numerous concerns.
He was troubled that a former NRA president, David Keene, had been caught up in an investigation over his ties to Maria Butina, the Russian who pleaded guilty to conspiring to act as a foreign agent.
He was disturbed after The New York Times reported this year that Tyler Schropp, a senior NRA executive, had an interest in an outside company that had received $18 million (£14 million) from the NRA.
He was also dismayed by a recent New Yorker story tying the NRA’s former longtime chief financial officer to allegations of embezzlement at a previous job.
“I don’t know if these stories are true or not true,” he said. “My No. 1 concern, frankly only concern, is that our Second Amendment rights are preserved and the optics of negativity that are directly harming the NRA institution ceases.”
Mr Dell’Aquila said he had approached high-ranking NRA officials to express his dissatisfaction as recently as April, when the NRA held its annual convention in Indianapolis, but was not satisfied by their responses.
And he said the board had recently been removing critics of LaPierre from key oversight committees.
“I decided the best way to be effective is to start a grassroots effort to demand from the NRA leadership accountability as well as transparency,” he said.
His demands include the resignation of Mr LaPierre and his senior leadership in time to put in a new team for the 2020 elections.
In addition to Mr Cox’s return, he wants Allen West, an NRA board member and former Tea Party congressman opposed to Mr LaPierre, installed as the group’s president.
He would also shrink the board to 30 members from 76; stop paying consulting fees to board members; dismiss the NRA’s accounting firm, RSM; remove past presidents from the board; and cut costs by holding meetings in central locations.
He lamented that an upcoming board meeting was to be held in Alaska: “What are the optics of that?” he said. “It’s negative. It’s self-inflicted.”
He adding that the NRA could find board members who “would do this for free, and it keeps us clean in the liberal papers”.
Mr Dell’Aquila said he had come to his decision reluctantly and had always been treated graciously by Mr LaPierre and his wife, Susan.
“I’m not pro-Mr LaPierre, and I’m not anti-Mr LaPierre, I’m just simply being objective and trying to save a historic institution from itself,” he said.
“Right or wrong, the buck stops with Mr LaPierre, because this occurred underneath his leadership, and he’s ultimately accountable.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/national-rifle-association-rebellion-oust-wayne-lapierre-gun-rights-lobbying-a8985936.html
sundance435
07-03-19, 13:06
“I don’t know if these stories are true or not true,” he said. “My No. 1 concern, frankly only concern, is that our Second Amendment rights are preserved and the optics of negativity that are directly harming the NRA institution ceases.”
Mr Dell’Aquila said he had approached high-ranking NRA officials to express his dissatisfaction as recently as April, when the NRA held its annual convention in Indianapolis, but was not satisfied by their responses.
“I’m not pro-Mr LaPierre, and I’m not anti-Mr LaPierre, I’m just simply being objective and trying to save a historic institution from itself,” he said.
“Right or wrong, the buck stops with Mr LaPierre, because this occurred underneath his leadership, and he’s ultimately accountable.”
I like the cut of this dude's jib. Their only shot is in the court of public opinion. It would be nearly impossible to get 3/4 of a 76 person decision making body to agree on anything. Boards are only allowed to grow to that size to dilute power and make super majorities impossible.
You might want to state the source of the article or a link to the entire article to not violate any copyright.
You might want to state the source of the article or a link to the entire article to not violate any copyright.
Can we bring back “” to please.
Greatly enhances clarity when articles are inset to the page
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quotes are easy.
You click the quote button and insert the text. Easy.
BTW, the article is here https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/us/nra-donors-wayne-lapierre.html
It has been said that every cause starts out as a movement, becomes a business, and ends up as a racket.
With the likes of Oliver North and Ted Nugent running things, how could it be otherwise?
I'm done with these fools. I'll send my money to GOA instead.
Mr McSimon
07-03-19, 18:00
There are still some people out there fighting the fight instead of lining their own pockets.
https://nationalgunrights.org/
Much smaller organization, but a no compromise mission.
Carolyn Meadows, the Pres of the NRA, sounds full on cringy damage control. Almost a cult-like response.
Very good to see this news of a new coalition forming to bring reform.
LaPierre will burn the NRA down to retain his $$$$$$$, he is THE PROBLEM !!!!!
The majority of the board will go down with him.
LaPierre will burn the NRA down to retain his $$$$$$$, he is THE PROBLEM !!!!!
The majority of the board will go down with him.
That's exactly what will happen, I guess everybody needs to start preparing for a post-NRA world, start looking around at state and local orgs to support find one on the national level you like, and support it. Now, if the NRA manages to rid itself of WLP and his deadbeat friends, and they have a major overhaul of the entire organisation, they we, need to support them.. But, until then, not another dime..
Carolyn Meadows, the Pres of the NRA, sounds full on cringy damage control. Almost a cult-like response.
Very good to see this news of a new coalition forming to bring reform.
Cult is a good analogy.
A select few reaping the benefits while promising false salvation to their unwavering devotees toiling endlessly and making all sorts of outrageous claims to suck new blood in to feed the scam. Too bad it has been going on for decades.
I held my nose for a lot of things, but last year, when Mr. Nugent talked about shooting people who didn't agree with him, I sent in my letter resigning.
LaPierre will burn the NRA down to retain his $$$$$$$, he is THE PROBLEM !!!!!
The majority of the board will go down with him.
It will be a difficult task removing LaPierre and the board members. The NRA is losing support in our part of the Midwest and will continue to do so until the NRA cleans house.
MountainRaven
07-11-19, 00:34
Duane Liptak posted today that he has been (my word) excused from the NRA BoD's education and training and military and veterans affairs committees. The only committee he has been reinvited to join is the action shooting committee.
horseman234
07-23-19, 17:34
New video describing the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=588&v=fkVPW_96ZJk
Pretty interesting letters at 7:53 and 8:05 - pause to read.
Isn't it funny how really rich people are such cheap, thieving, SOB's?
titsonritz
07-23-19, 19:42
Marion Hammer still has LaPierre's back, go figure.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/marion-hammer-wayne-lapierre-has-earned-nra-members-respect-loyalty-and-support/
Diamondback
07-23-19, 19:44
Marion Hammer still has LaPierre's back, go figure.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/marion-hammer-wayne-lapierre-has-earned-nra-members-respect-loyalty-and-support/
Of course, the lapdog will faithfully serve the master who keeps it well fed... Not one more dime beyond Instructor creds and Instructor/Marksmanship Program supplies after my Life Membership pays off. Six months, Wanker Wayne, the clock is ticking. Tick, tick, tick...
I think when they sold "affordable" life memberships prior to the Obama election, they got so flush with cash that it simply became a "free money" scam for everyone at the top and any residual semblance of being a second amendment advocacy group was ironically lost when those who run the NRA started their own "free shit army."
Diamondback
07-23-19, 20:21
No shame that I got in on the cheap, $600 for Life at $25/month, but if they'd had a clean nose I would have considered both upgrading *and* buying the GF a membership. Now, though... until the house is set in order once I'm paid off my money goes to GOA and SAF instead.
Of course, now that I've put that marker down even though it's direct-deposit I expect them to "lose" a payment and claim that I "missed it" forfeiting all prior payments and having to start over... I'm the last person they want casting ballots, because I want a "Shareholder Initiative" calling in Chuck Norris to roundhouse-kick Weasel Wayne out the nearest window.
No shame that I got in on the cheap, $600 for Life at $25/month, but if they'd had a clean nose I would have considered both upgrading *and* buying the GF a membership. Now, though... until the house is set in order once I'm paid off my money goes to GOA and SAF instead.
I think they got as low as $400, that's why I have a life membership and I bought a couple for family members. But like I said, I think they got high on all that cash that rolled in and it went from "rights" to "keep this gravy train moving down the tracks."
horseman234
07-24-19, 06:29
For years I've supported the NRA, naively, as they were the most prominent voice defending the second amendment. It's easy to see, with 20/20 hindsight, that the leadership has been immersed in Washington politics for way to long, and has become another corrupt Washington lobbying group. Corruption breeds corruption, and when they have been around all the other lobbyists and congressmen living the high life, they begin to believe they are entitled to the same lifestyle. The only solution is to clean house, and the membership pay more attention to who we elect to the board.
MountainRaven
08-08-19, 00:11
Meanwhile... NRA Chief Sought Help of Group's Ad Agency in Trying to Buy $5 Million Mansion - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/nra-chief-sought-help-of-groups-ad-agency-in-buying-5-million-mansion-11565145754).
Rumblings that LaPierre was going to have the NRA pay Ack-Mac to buy him a $6.2 million 10,000 sq-ft mansion in a Dallas suburb (the current asking price is $5.25 million, hence the WSJ headline, while WaPo and NPR have used the larger, earlier figure).
Diamondback
08-08-19, 00:14
Meanwhile... NRA Chief Sought Help of Group's Ad Agency in Trying to Buy $5 Million Mansion - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/nra-chief-sought-help-of-groups-ad-agency-in-buying-5-million-mansion-11565145754).
Rumblings that LaPierre was going to have the NRA pay Ack-Mac to buy him a $6.2 million 10,000 sq-ft mansion in a Dallas suburb (the current asking price is $5.25 million, hence the WSJ headline, while WaPo and NPR have used the larger, earlier figure).
He can buy his own damn mansion! Who does he think he is, Joel Osteen or some other pocket-lining televangelist?
He can buy his own damn mansion! Who does he think he is, Joel Osteen or some other pocket-lining televangelist?
Yes. Yes he does. He also cannot save the 2nd Amendment single handedly without a Gulfstream G650. Won’t you help poor Wayne save your rights with a donation today friend?
Diamondback
08-08-19, 03:58
Yes. Yes he does. He also cannot save the 2nd Amendment single handedly without a Gulfstream G650. Won’t you help poor Wayne save your rights with a donation today friend?
Sure, right after he chokes out on a dick while being spit-roasted... (I'm auditioning for "Firefly, The Next Generation"--how am I doing so far? LOL)
Sure, right after he chokes out on a dick while being spit-roasted... (I'm auditioning for "Firefly, The Next Generation"--how am I doing so far? LOL)
Sipsey Street Irregulars?
Yes. Yes he does. He also cannot save the 2nd Amendment single handedly without a Gulfstream G650. Won’t you help poor Wayne save your rights with a donation today friend?
Have you heard about the new bill being proposed by Senator Boogyman III? We’d like to ask if you’ll consider a donation and help join the fight for your rights.
Meanwhile... NRA Chief Sought Help of Group's Ad Agency in Trying to Buy $5 Million Mansion - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/nra-chief-sought-help-of-groups-ad-agency-in-buying-5-million-mansion-11565145754).
Rumblings that LaPierre was going to have the NRA pay Ack-Mac to buy him a $6.2 million 10,000 sq-ft mansion in a Dallas suburb (the current asking price is $5.25 million, hence the WSJ headline, while WaPo and NPR have used the larger, earlier figure).
How about copying that for those of us who aren't able to see behind the paywall?
ETA: this is another story on ther subject: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/documents-show-nra-discussions-to-purchase-luxury-mansion-for-use-of-its-chief-executive/2019/08/06/eb8b0490-b7ce-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html
Diamondback
08-08-19, 12:11
Sipsey Street Irregulars?
Naw, I'm a Knox-ite. :)
The NRA are televangelists for guns.
We keep getting promises in exchange for money.
Naw, I'm a Knox-ite. :)
That works too.
Sipsey Street was where I had heard the homosexual gravy train theory concerning NRA operations.
Diamondback
08-08-19, 13:03
That works too.
Sipsey Street was where I had heard the homosexual gravy train theory concerning NRA operations.
I wasn't even particularly suggesting that the Weasel swings that way, just applying one of my standard canned expressions of contempt, much like how my reflexive response to being demanded that I prove a negative is to go straight to "Okay, AFTER you prove YOU'RE not a child molester. Can't do it, can you, KIDDIE DIDDLER?"
The NRA are televangelists for guns.
We keep getting promises in exchange for money.
This right here.
I wasn't even particularly suggesting that the Weasel swings that way, just applying one of my standard canned expressions of contempt, much like how my reflexive response to being demanded that I prove a negative is to go straight to "Okay, AFTER you prove YOU'RE not a child molester. Can't do it, can you, KIDDIE DIDDLER?"
Summary: it wasn't being used as an insult on Sipsey site, but as an explanation of what is going on at NRA (since it sure isn't what they advertise they are doing) based on some claims that had been made.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/10/nra-lairds-of-fairfax-and-homintern.html?m=1
Diamondback
08-08-19, 13:42
Summary: it wasn't being used as an insult on Sipsey site, but as an explanation of what is going on at NRA (since it sure isn't what they advertise they are doing) based on some claims that had been made.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/10/nra-lairds-of-fairfax-and-homintern.html?m=1
Would plausibly explain the huge acrimonious split that got Cox tossed out on his ass... thanks for the supplemental explanation. :) I wouldn't be surprised if the Gaystapo does blackmail "closets" who'd have something to lose from being outed, since it's long been known that NOTHING is beneath Progs.
Would plausibly explain the huge acrimonious split that got Cox tossed out on his ass... thanks for the supplemental explanation. :) I wouldn't be surprised if the Gaystapo does blackmail "closets" who'd have something to lose from being outed, since it's long been known that NOTHING is beneath Progs.
May be nothing, but I had heard their names for decades with zilch about them being married. Not long after that site posted that I started seeing "Wayne's wife this and that" accompanying give to the NRA online brow beatings.
Without admissions or photo proof it is just rumor/theory, but they sure aren't doing what is claimed so one possible explanation could be as good as another.
There is no one left there that could put up any fight against Skeletor. A LOT of people went out the door with Cox.
Averageman
08-08-19, 14:10
I hate giving them money, but it's required at my range to be a member of the NRA.
Mr McSimon
08-08-19, 14:31
I hate giving them money, but it's required at my range to be a member of the NRA.
Sounds like extortion to me. I'd find a different range.
Yes. Yes he does. He also cannot save the 2nd Amendment single handedly without a Gulfstream G650. Won’t you help poor Wayne save your rights with a donation today friend?
This is a little bit off-topic - but aligns with the Gulfstream Jet comment:
* Google held an exclusive event in Sicily, Italy, called "Google Camp" to discuss climate change with top celebrities and world leaders;
* Approximately 300 celebrities and world leaders attended;
* The official count of private jets wafting into Palermo for the 'great consult' stands at 114, for a maximum of 300 attending — three per jet;
* Several of the uber-rich arrived on their personal super yachts, proving that:
* There's no hypocrite like a rich, jet-setting anti-global-warming one
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-theres-no-hypocrite-like-a-rich-jet-setting-anti-global-warming-one
I hate giving them money, but it's required at my range to be a member of the NRA.
Same.
Averageman
08-08-19, 16:06
Sounds like extortion to me. I'd find a different range.
I've asked, the answer I got was it was about insurance.
Honestly, it's probably the best range within 100 miles of here.
Sure, right after he chokes out on a dick while being spit-roasted... (I'm auditioning for "Firefly, The Next Generation"--how am I doing so far? LOL)
<claps in golf...> Quite well indeed! ;)
This is a little bit off-topic - but aligns with the Gulfstream Jet comment:
* Google held an exclusive event in Sicily, Italy, called "Google Camp" to discuss climate change with top celebrities and world leaders;
* Approximately 300 celebrities and world leaders attended;
* The official count of private jets wafting into Palermo for the 'great consult' stands at 114, for a maximum of 300 attending — three per jet;
* Several of the uber-rich arrived on their personal super yachts, proving that:
* There's no hypocrite like a rich, jet-setting anti-global-warming one
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-theres-no-hypocrite-like-a-rich-jet-setting-anti-global-warming-one
True dat!
I've asked, the answer I got was it was about insurance.
Honestly, it's probably the best range within 100 miles of here.
The answer is always insurance. Wouldn't you love to know how much Reverend Wayne has gotten in perks and kickbacks from insurance companies, credit card companies, etc. for their "affiliations"? :confused:
titsonritz
08-08-19, 17:01
The NRA are televangelists for guns.
We keep getting promises in exchange for money.
That pretty much sums it up. Sad really, I use to be proud to me a member thought I was doing my part in what little way I could, should have just bought more ammo.
titsonritz
08-08-19, 17:06
A major National Rifle Association donor sued the gun-rights organization this week for fraud, saying its leaders have misspent money over the last four years, ignoring the group’s core mission while paying for expensive clothing and trips for CEO Wayne LaPierre.
David Dell’Aquila filed a federal class-action lawsuit in Tennessee and fired off letters to the attorneys general in New York and Washington on Wednesday, urging them to complete investigations into the NRA well before the 2020 election.
“We feel that the NRA no longer represents its membership and has been corrupted by those in control,” said Mr. Dell’Aquila, who has given about $100,000 worth of cash and gifts to the group in the last several years and — until recently — had pledged most of his estate to the group when he died.
NRA donor files class-action suit; claims VP LaPierre blew $275K on suits, $243K on 'luxury travel' (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/7/nra-donor-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-gun-r/)
I can't blame the guy, I'm pissed and can't hold a candle to this man's generosity putting up for the cause.
A major National Rifle Association donor sued the gun-rights organization this week for fraud, saying its leaders have misspent money over the last four years, ignoring the group’s core mission while paying for expensive clothing and trips for CEO Wayne LaPierre.
David Dell’Aquila filed a federal class-action lawsuit in Tennessee and fired off letters to the attorneys general in New York and Washington on Wednesday, urging them to complete investigations into the NRA well before the 2020 election.
“We feel that the NRA no longer represents its membership and has been corrupted by those in control,” said Mr. Dell’Aquila, who has given about $100,000 worth of cash and gifts to the group in the last several years and — until recently — had pledged most of his estate to the group when he died.
NRA donor files class-action suit; claims VP LaPierre blew $275K on suits, $243K on 'luxury travel' (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/7/nra-donor-files-class-action-lawsuit-against-gun-r/)
I can't blame the guy, I'm pissed and can't hold a candle to this man's generosity putting up for the cause.
4 years got me curious, looks like that may have been how long he was chipping in. This could get entertaining if any geriatric victims paying in for decades piggy back on to it.
Doc Safari
08-08-19, 17:40
I'll say one thing: If NRA manages to stop the current batch of proposed legislation after the Dayton and El Paso shootings they will largely be forgiven for whatever they've done.
If they fail--I don't think the organization comes back from marginality.
I'll say one thing: If NRA manages to stop the current batch of proposed legislation after the Dayton and El Paso shootings they will largely be forgiven for whatever they've done.
If they fail--I don't think the organization comes back from marginality.
They have historically claimed many positives they really didn't achieve while deflecting the role they played in making negatives possible.
There are a lot of their supporters that allegedly do not know any of this has came to light and go in to cult member chant and sway mode when presented with the info.
4 years got me curious, looks like that may have been how long he was chipping in. This could get entertaining if any geriatric victims paying in for decades piggy back on to it.
Sad you should mention geriatric. The way they constantly ask me to renew my membership, even if I did last week, implies that they prey on the memory impaired, on a criminal level. And it reminds my of my memory impaired patients, who commonly have NRA stuff in their homes.
I’ve run into (anti gun soldiers, wtf) guys from Cali at work that like to talk about the NRA. I try to explain to them they really have no need to be upset by the NRA. Theres no point.
Hey, NRA! You’re a meme! Hated by the left as the “pro gun organization” known to be worthless feces by the right!
This jewell just popped up , the NRA was about to buy WLP a mansion in Texas so he could do his job better, LOL !!!@!*****@#$(()( *******$$$$$$$$$
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7332073/NRA-planned-buy-6million-Dallas-mansion-chief-Wayne-LaPierre-year.html
If It Wants To Survive, The NRA Needs To Change
Why should gun owners fund an organization that is most effective at keeping a few people rich?
In the mid-1970s the NRA had to make a choice. As crime continued to spike across the nation, and politicians increasingly embraced gun control measures, an internal debate broke out about the future of the organization.
Initially, the NRA’s more passionate Second Amendment advocates were purged. NRA leadership would fire more than 70 activists during the early part of the decade. By 1976, the organization’s board decided to relocate its headquarters from Washington to Colorado to extract itself from political debate altogether. It wasn’t until a 1977 NRA convention in Cincinnati that politically minded members pulled off something of a coup, wresting the organization from the nonpolitical wing.
Many of today’s gun control advocates like to claim the “Cincinnati revolt” was the moment extremists took over the organization, undermining average gun owners who were merely interested in hunting and skeet shooting — which is, needless to say, a simplistic understanding of both the NRA’s history and gun owners. The reality is that the shift was an organic one, reflecting the mounting anxieties among members who felt increasingly under political attack. The NRA was best positioned to take the lead. If it hadn’t, another advocacy group would have emerged to take its place.
The gun control debate had changed, and the NRA changed with it. And the more gun controllers pushed, the more popular the NRA became, doubling its membership from 1977 to 1983. With every concerted effort to enact gun restrictions, the organization grew.
What is the point of the NRA now? Is it to be one of the thousand partisan outfits in D.C. helping elect Republicans, or is it to make compelling and effective arguments about the virtues and necessity of the Second Amendment? For someone looking in from the outside, it seems the past few years have been mostly about the former.
Of course, we shouldn’t forget the NRA runs an array of programs around the country that cultivate responsible gun owners. (I should also mention that the NRA’s National Firearms Museum in Fairfax, Virginia, is a quite fascinating place.) And it isn’t the group’s fault, as a policy matter, that firearms have become predominately a partisan issue. Young voters might not be aware that the NRA once regularly supported pro-gun Democrats such as Harry Reid and Bernie Sanders. It’s the left’s embrace of confiscatory policies and intrusions that often makes bipartisan support untenable. The NRA is compelled to back Republicans because Republicans — and the judges they nominate and confirm — are far more prone to protect gun rights.
The problem with being a partisan outfit, however, is that you soon start working for the party, rather than asking the party to help you. After the Las Vegas mass shooting that killed 58 people, the deadliest in U.S. history, the Trump administration unilaterally banned bump stocks through executive action. “As a matter of both law and physics,” my colleague Sean Davis pointed out at the time, the move was an “abomination.”
You can imagine that had the Obama administration engaged in a precedent-setting intrusion into gun rights, banning an accessory by fiat rather than legislatively, the NRA would rightly have raised hell about the dictatorial powers of the presidency. In this case, the best pushback the organization could muster was that it had been “disappointed.”
Today, Republicans talk about universal background checks and red-flag laws that could strip gun owners of their due process rights, and the NRA isn’t offering persuasive arguments about why they’re bad ideas. Are they even part of the conversation in any meaningful way? It’s difficult to tell. These days, the NRA, it seems, is just a convenient punching bag for Democrats who are too cowardly to go after tens of millions of gun owners.
Today, “taking on the NRA” has become one of the most common acts of faux bravery in Democratic Party politics. If the NRA were as powerful as its critics contended, the civil and constitutional rights of gun owners would never be challenged. If the NRA spent the kind of money its critics claimed, it would be the most powerful organization in American life.
In reality, the group’s expenditures are minuscule in comparison to other major lobbying. Its entire 2019 lobbying efforts have amounted to under $2 million. The NRA is only influential because it represents — either through direct membership or through ideological kinship — a lot of American voters.
If the NRA were as extremist as Democrats claim, Americans would be walking into supermarkets and buying fully automatic real-life assault rifles. The NRA, in fact, has always been cautious on policy. (It’s worth remembering, for example, that the NRA had opposed bringing the Heller case forward, believing taking it to a higher court could backfire and enshrine the collective rights theory. It was an idealistic libertarian contingent that can be thanked for the protections of both Heller and McDonald. If it had been up to the NRA, the Second Amendment would not have been codified as the individual right.)
Another problem with being aggressively partisan is that the NRA turns off millions of Americans who might be open to its cause but aren’t politically involved themselves. In the past few years, the NRA leadership handed the keys (and a ton of cash) to the PR firm Ackerman McQueen, which in turn, seemed to believe the NRA should be another Fox News rather than a civil rights organization. Now the two are mired in counter suits.
Over the past few years, I appeared on a number of shows on the now-defunct NRATV network — the streaming channel run by Ackerman McQueen. Many personalities on the network were excellent spokespeople for gun rights and for conservative ideas. But should the NRA strive to involve itself in every contemporary debate, creating antagonism on issues that have absolutely nothing to do with gun rights? Though I’m certainly no public relations expert, it seems to me that the mission of any issue-oriented organization should be to proselytize rather than alienate.
On top of all of this, a nasty and convoluted internal fight has broken out among the board members and NRA head Wayne LaPierre, none of which has anything to do with the future of gun rights, as it had in 1977, but rather personal animosity and greed.
It’s unlikely that most members are very interested in the disputed specifics of the kerfuffle, but it all spilled into public view when then-president Oliver North alleged that the NRA was spending — or rather, wasting — nearly $100,000 a day on lawyers. The NRA’s top lobbyist, Christopher Cox, would also resign after being accused of plotting to push out LaPierre. Apparently, the NRA head had spent about $540,000 on clothing and travel expenses that had been laundered through Ackerman. The NRA claimed the costs were justified for business reasons — a contention I imagine a gun owner in Bozeman, Montana, or Aurora, Colorado, might dispute.
This week, we learned via the Wall Street Journal that the NRA had signed a document agreeing to purchase 99% of a company that was formed for the sole purpose of buying LaPierre a $6 million mansion in Dallas. For whatever reason, the deal was never consummated.
Why should any gun owner or Second Amendment advocate send money to an organization that is increasingly ineffective on policy, though highly effective at keeping a few people rich? Perhaps longtime members keep re-upping with the NRA, but how many younger Americans are becoming members? If the NRA wants to be as powerful as Democrats claim it is, it’s going to have to change again.
David Harsanyi is a Senior Editor at The Federalist. He is the author of First Freedom: A Ride Through America's Enduring History with the Gun, From the Revolution to Today.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/14/nra-must-change/
If It Wants To Survive, The NRA Needs To Change
The NRA was best positioned to take the lead. If it hadn’t, another advocacy group would have emerged to take its place.
I think we'd be better off if there had been a separate organization taking over the political fight, leaving the NRA to focus on providing firearms safety, education, training and lifestyle content. If we had two separate organizations, one for legal matters and one for promoting responsible gun ownership, people would gravitate towards what they had an interest in. As it is now, there's a tug of war within the NRA as to what their focus should be.
A gun rights organization working cooperatively with a gun owner's organization might be more effective and less contentious.
I think we'd be better off if there had been a separate organization taking over the political fight, leaving the NRA to focus on providing firearms safety, education, training and lifestyle content. If we had two separate organizations, one for legal matters and one for promoting responsible gun ownership, people would gravitate towards what they had an interest in. As it is now, there's a tug of war within the NRA as to what their focus should be.
A gun rights organization working cooperatively with a gun owner's organization might be more effective and less contentious.
Just got through mentioning the safety training in another thread. If their political side was trying half as hard as the safety segments to make their actual activities meet their claimed goals there wouldn't be anything to criticize.
If their safety people operated like far too much of their political branch, checking the chamber would involve a good bore light to look for meplat/ogive.
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