How Do You Hold Your "Stick?"

[Doc Safari]

How you hold your AR when firing off-hand is a matter of training and personal preference. Over the years I've tried several off-hand stances and I find I prefer to draw my arms inward toward my torso as close as possible. My elbows, to the extent practical, rest on my trunk. I draw my off hand to hold the carbine at the juncture of the forearm and the delta ring, sometimes placing my hand around the mag well (but out of the way of the ejection port since I shoot left-handed).

I just could never get the hang of the technique of holding your off-hand as far out on the handguard as possible.

I ended up deciding vertical foregrips and angled foregrips just get in the way of my preferred method of "coming in tight". I find scrunching everything up helps me hold steadier no matter what type of optic I'm using. The weapon wavers off target a lot less and I find I can do follow up shots a lot easier and with more precision.

Of course, you may do it entirely differently.

How do you hold your "stick"?

[Sry0fcr]

I have a stubby VFG about 3/5 of the way out on my 13" handguard, I grip there thumb over bore and use the grip to pull into my shoulder. As with most things, try a bunch, then do what works for you.

[TomMcC]

I have a small hand stop on my rifles and use the extended "C" clamp method. My arms are longish so that's what's comfortable for me. I use a target acquisition method I learned from Patrick Kelley. Instead of trying to throw the sight up right on the target and then struggle to keep the sight orbit steady, I start at the lower right (left handed) of the target and purposely drive the sight to the point on the target I want to shoot, while doing this I'm quickly ratcheting up the pressure on the trigger.

[Doc Safari]

I have a small hand stop on my rifles and use the extended "C" clamp method. My arms are longish so that's what's comfortable for me. I use a target acquisition method I learned from Patrick Kelley. Instead of trying to throw the sight up right on the target and then struggle to keep the sight orbit steady, I start at the lower right (left handed) of the target and purposely drive the sight to the point on the target I want to shoot, while doing this I'm quickly ratcheting up the pressure on the trigger.

Great response. This the kind of response I like to read. You not only gave a description of what you do, but who you learned it from, and why you do it.

:thank_you2:

[RKB Armory]

Good question, Doc Safari! This seems like there should be a definitive best way, but there isn't, that I know of.

I'm a 3/5 of the way out guy. My thumb is on the side, not over the bore. Elbows in. I'm not confident that my method is the best. I'm always open to instruction.

[Failure2Stop]

All depends on what I'm doing.
The way I grip the gun is different when I'm anticipating multiple moving close-range lethal threats than when I'm shooting at a stationary target at long range with no real time pressure.
The first requires as much recoil management as possible with the ability move rapidly and transition targets quickly.
The latter requires stability and predictable sight wobble.
Task drives technique.

[SBRSarge]

For fast shooting offhand, I’ve tried extending my arm all the way to the end of the handguard and using the C grip, but just can’t get comfortable with it. I understand the physics of it; grip way out to not fight the rifle’s leverage and drive the barrel where it needs to go for imstance, but I just can’t make it work for me.

I’ll try new grips/stances and evaluate them, but I always end up back in the first third of the handguard with my elbows tucked comfortably in. A few of my rifles have the angled foregrip which I like as much as anything to alleviate heat issues when doing lots of firing.


Now, for slow marksmanship shooting, I’ll stick my left elbow to my hip and use that arm almost like a monopod; palm under the rearmost portion of the handguard with the weight straight through the forearm to the elbow/hip. Add a slight twist and backwards lean and there I am locked in (kinda) solidly. I learned that in college at rifle team tryouts from the Army marksmanship unit and it kind of stuck.

[0311B50]

Very similar to what you describe, Doc Safari. Can’t really say why I started doing it that way. But, after 30 years, I still do because it just works for me.

I’m actually very annoyed that my department issued rifle has a vertical foregrip. It gets in the way.


The Founding Fathers would have been shooting decades ago.

[RHINOWSO]

All depends on what I'm doing...
...Task drives technique.
This 100%, like most things.

[Doc Safari]

All depends on what I'm doing.
The way I grip the gun is different when I'm anticipating multiple moving close-range lethal threats than when I'm shooting at a stationary target at long range with no real time pressure.
The first requires as much recoil management as possible with the ability move rapidly and transition targets quickly.
The latter requires stability and predictable sight wobble.
Task drives technique.

I have to concede you're right. My technique I described in my first post is great for shooting at distance. I had to think about what I do during my "in-home" practice drills. In that case my off hand is further forward in order to activate the weapon light. That's the only big difference.

[Stickman]

All depends on what I'm doing.
The way I grip the gun is different when I'm anticipating multiple moving close-range lethal threats than when I'm shooting at a stationary target at long range with no real time pressure.
The first requires as much recoil management as possible with the ability move rapidly and transition targets quickly.
The latter requires stability and predictable sight wobble.
Task drives technique.

Thank you. You just saved me from writing up the exact same thing.

Much like the question of how to hold a flashlight (with pistol), there are a lot of different ways to hold one when clearing a house, and I float back and forth between a myriad of them while doing building search/ seizures. The same answer exists when shooting a rifle/ carbine. There is no "one way" to hold or grip. There are various methods to employ while doing various taskings. It is up to the individual to figure what works best for the scenario they are facing. Do you shoot roll over prone/ urban prone the same way you shoot prone supported? Of course not, even though you are on the ground for each, the mannerisms are unique.

[Doc Safari]

Thank you. You just saved me from writing up the exact same thing.

Much like the question of how to hold a flashlight (with pistol), there are a lot of different ways to hold one when clearing a house, and I float back and forth between a myriad of them while doing building search/ seizures. The same answer exists when shooting a rifle/ carbine. There is no "one way" to hold or grip. There are various methods to employ while doing various taskings. It is up to the individual to figure what works best for the scenario they are facing. Do you shoot roll over prone/ urban prone the same way you shoot prone supported? Of course not, even though you are on the ground for each, the mannerisms are unique.

Sooooo, are you going to share your technique(s) with us?;)

[Pappabear]

I don't like my arm way out on the gun either. I do like a stubby fore grip or I really like the finger stop from Arisaka. Shoulders hunched down, elbows down....

PB

[markm]

I just could never get the hang of the technique of holding your off-hand as far out on the handguard as possible.

That gayness actually isn't as bad as I thought... as far as steady hold. I however haven't really put much effort into it.... nor do I wear womens' underwear.

I was taught a "baricade" technique, but I could never get good at it... kind of a high powerish standing thing. We mostly just shoot off hand using a position fairly close to a close range stance.

[Doc Safari]

That gayness actually isn't as bad as I thought... as far as steady hold. I however haven't really put much effort into it.... nor do I wear womens' underwear.

I was taught a "baricade" technique, but I could never get good at it... kind of a high powerish standing thing. We mostly just shoot off hand using a position fairly close to a close range stance.

I exchanged emails with a trainer one time. Sorry I have racked my brain and cannot remember which one. He's the one that turned me on to keeping your elbows close to your torso and holding the carbine further back on the handguard. The theory is you don't fatigue as quickly as you do holding your off-hand further out.

[TomMcC]

All depends on what I'm doing.
The way I grip the gun is different when I'm anticipating multiple moving close-range lethal threats than when I'm shooting at a stationary target at long range with no real time pressure.
The first requires as much recoil management as possible with the ability move rapidly and transition targets quickly.
The latter requires stability and predictable sight wobble.
Task drives technique.

IDK...I use the same stance for both (although I've never shot at a person). The only difference is how much time I spend acquiring the target. I assumed we were talking about our general run of the mill shooting while standing stance.

[Failure2Stop]

IDK...I use the same stance for both (although I've never shot at a person). The only difference is how much time I spend acquiring the target. I assumed we were talking about our general run of the mill shooting while standing stance.

Here's a really good open source reference:
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/TC%203-22x9%20C1%20INCL%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf

[MegademiC]

I hold a bit out on the rail/foregrip fir close targets, body shouts to 100 or so.

Skeletal structure support with sling for more precision when needed.

[TomMcC]

Here's a really good open source reference:
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/TC%203-22x9%20C1%20INCL%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf

Thanks, I'll look at it when I'm home.

[Dr. Bullseye]

Garand Thumb demonstrates how to just bump it over to the other side---no changing hands, positions, no juggling. Is this what you are talking about?

[kyjd75]

Here's a really good open source reference:
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/TC%203-22x9%20C1%20INCL%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf

That IS a really good reference for shooting techniques applicable to the AR weapons platform. Thanks for posting this.

[Firefly]

If you mean a vert grip, i only like one on shorter guns

[Tuukka]

I typically hold the rifle rather far on the handguard and let the rifle more hang in the grip ( difficult to explain in a brief text )

This allows for fast and precise shooting off hand even to longer distances and smaller targets. I do grip the rifle pretty tightly but trying not to affect the wobble too much due to me.

You can see my grip and stance in use on various distances and target types in this clip from the 2017 IPSC Rifle World Shoot:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDM1z5RsscM

[T2C]

All depends on what I'm doing.
The way I grip the gun is different when I'm anticipating multiple moving close-range lethal threats than when I'm shooting at a stationary target at long range with no real time pressure.
The first requires as much recoil management as possible with the ability move rapidly and transition targets quickly.
The latter requires stability and predictable sight wobble.
Task drives technique.

You read my mind. Technique is driven by need. If someone in a course asked me about what technique I would recommend, I would ask for what purpose.

[voiceofreason]

Close range / fast work... I use a C clamp grip and just point my thumb at the target... my sights are right on target.
About 3 days of practice and I went from "slightly off" to almost perfect.

For distance, I utilize my sling heavily as I am better with precision rifles than ARs.

[Stickman]

Sooooo, are you going to share your technique(s) with us?;)


If you mean flashlight techniques, I already wrote and article along with a bunch of pics. I think it was published in an early RECOIL magazine.

If you mean holding a weapon based on stances and scenarios, I could probably do that.

[ViniVidivici]

I've been running a VFG on my primary a (16 incher) for a few years now, and I could still take it or leave it.

It's great for recoil control, cornering, rapid transitioning between targets up close, etc.

But it sucks on long walks, prone shooting, shooting over some cover, in some positions. Can bump into and hang up on things...I run a KAC broomhandle, so I can unscrew it and yank it off when needed.

I am more and more, though, appreciating the enhanced control I get when using an aggressive C-clamp hold on a short, light 11.5 incher. Grabbing it up front, puling it into the shoulder using a Griffin Arms handstop panel, it rocks, without the added weight and bulk of a VFG.

[daddyusmaximus]

Good question, Doc Safari! This seems like there should be a definitive best way, but there isn't, that I know of.

I'm a 3/5 of the way out guy. My thumb is on the side, not over the bore. Elbows in. I'm not confident that my method is the best. I'm always open to instruction.

I use a short VFG, and keep my thumb on the side as well. I can easily reach up on top to hit light switch, but I just can't keep it up there.

Weird thing is I also tend to switch back, and forth as to weather or not I blade myself. I'm still getting used to the newer technique of running the gun straight out in front. (Fat old fart that's half crippled, and been retired 10 years.) It's great for movement, but I find I still blade myself to the target often when stationary. More training is needed, but I can still hit the target. Lucky for me, I won't be doing a lot of dismounted patrol anymore.