View Full Version : Overseas Move as an NFA Owner
Texpatriate
04-26-19, 10:24
So my family and I are considering a move overseas for a few years. I own an SBR, and obviously I can’t take it with me. So other than selling the SBR, what are my options? I’m a Texas resident, and the SBR is registered in my name, not a trust. My parents and brother also live in Texas, so I’m wondering if the best option would be to form a trust and transfer the SBR to the trust held with my brother and possibly dad. Brother has some NFA items of his own but they are registered in his name and not a trust. As far as my other non-NFA firearms are concerned, I was planning to leave them with my dad or brother until we move back to the U.S. Anyone walked this path before and have any advice? Thanks.
ginzomatic
04-26-19, 11:36
have you considered a safety deposit box?
If you put a barrel or upper that is longer than 16 inches on it, it’s no longer an NFA item. You could give it to your relatives to keep until you return.
Pick one:
1. Reconfigure it into a non-NFA firearm by installing a 16” upper (could sell the short upper, or install it on a braces lower, or several other options)
2. Store the lower in a safe deposit box and do something else with the upper (or store both in the box if possible)
3. Lock it up in a container and leave it with family, along with a copy of the F1/F4 and a letter stating you’ve left it with them for storage
Texpatriate
04-26-19, 13:42
have you considered a safety deposit box?
2 things come to mind here:
1) as an NFA item, my understanding is that is that it’s not supposed to be in anyone else’s possession other than the person registered to or holders of a trust that it is registered to, i.e. a bank, and
2) I don’t think that one can legally bring any firearm, let alone a registered SBR into a bank.
2 things come to mind here:
1) as an NFA item, my understanding is that is that it’s not supposed to be in anyone else’s possession other than the person registered to or holders of a trust that it is registered to, i.e. a bank, and
2) I don’t think that one can legally bring any firearm, let alone a registered SBR into a bank.
It's Texas, man, some banks welcome folks carrying. The bank ought to give you privacy to put your belongings in the box. Would guess it might be easier to fit as a lower only.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/texas-bank-posts-sign-encouraging-concealed-carry
2 things come to mind here:
1) as an NFA item, my understanding is that is that it’s not supposed to be in anyone else’s possession other than the person registered to or holders of a trust that it is registered to, i.e. a bank, and
2) I don’t think that one can legally bring any firearm, let alone a registered SBR into a bank.
1) that’s not as black & white as you’d think
2) I used to think the same, but there is no federal prohibition to having firearms in a bank
2) I don’t think that one can legally bring any firearm, let alone a registered SBR into a bank.
I guess you do not have a LTC.
Banks have no special status wrt to firearms in Texas, and there is no FedLaw.
The best solution to your problem is to put a long BBL on it, or if you built it from a pistol, take the stock off.
2 things come to mind here:
1) as an NFA item, my understanding is that is that it’s not supposed to be in anyone else’s possession other than the person registered to or holders of a trust that it is registered to, i.e. a bank, and
2) I don’t think that one can legally bring any firearm, let alone a registered SBR into a bank.
If it doesn’t have a barrel less than 16 inches mounted, or if it has NO upper mounted, it’s not an NFA item at all.
exkc135driver
04-26-19, 23:08
2 things come to mind here:
1) ...
2) I don’t think that one can legally bring any firearm, let alone a registered SBR into a bank.
That is not correct. But even if it were, after you have rented the safe deposit box, here is what happens when you put something in the box:
> You go into the bank with item(s) in your pocket, in a bag, in a box, whatever. You tell the nice bank lady that you want to access your safe deposit box. She verifies that you are you.
> The nice bank lady takes you into the safe deposit box area, usually a separate area inside a safe room with a humongous door. It is filled with safe deposit boxes of various sizes. Each safe deposit box has two key slots. She goes to your box, puts the bank's key in one slot and your key in the other, opens the door, and takes out a metal box. The metal box has a lid, and neither you nor the nice bank lady can see what is inside.
> The nice bank lady leads you to a private area -- it could be a separate room, or maybe a curtained-off cubicle. She closes the door/curtain and leaves.
> You open the metal box and put in (or take out) your stuff ... firearms, stacks of cash, gold bars, old love letters your wife doesn't know about, whatever. Only you know what you're putting in the box. You close the lid to the box.
> You return the metal box to the safe deposit box, you and the nice bank lady lock the box, and you leave.
Barring invasion, TEOTWAWKI, etc., there are only two situations in which someone else is going to access your safe deposit box:
> Court order: in appropriate circumstances (for example, death, bankruptcy, suspicion of concealing assets in a nasty divorce) a judge can order that the safe deposit box be drilled and opened.
> You don't pay the annual box rent, in which case the bank will eventually have to have the box drilled into. The bank won't be in any rush to do this, though, because it costs the bank, and they know that whatever may be in the box, it isn't going anywhere.
If you put a barrel or upper that is longer than 16 inches on it, it’s no longer an NFA item. You could give it to your relatives to keep until you return.
Ok, technically 'no longer an SBR', but is the lower still a registered NFA item? The lower is the serialized and taxed part is it not?
Ok, technically 'no longer an SBR', but is the lower still a registered NFA item? The lower is the serialized and taxed part is it not?
Yes. But it’s not under the purview of the NFA if not figured as an NFA firearm.
Meaning I can:
1. Remove the upper and sell the lower with no NFA paperwork
2. Remove the upper and travel with the lower across state lines with no paperwork
3. Swap to a 16” upper and sell the complete rifle with no NFA paperwork
4. Swap to a 16” upper and travel with no paperwork
5. Swap to a 16” upper and hunt where SBRs are prohibited for that use
Banks are not an issue. I downsized a few years ago. Walked into a Bank of America , told them I was renting a box for gun storage.
They smiled when I came back with a bunch of subguns and MGs. Guard even helped carry everything.
Question for the OP. Why not just put a lock on your NFA lower, keep the key, leave it in your brother's safe and he won't have access to it?
ginzomatic
04-29-19, 06:49
Yes. But it’s not under the purview of the NFA if not figured as an NFA firearm.
Meaning I can:
1. Remove the upper and sell the lower with no NFA paperwork
2. Remove the upper and travel with the lower across state lines with no paperwork
3. Swap to a 16” upper and sell the complete rifle with no NFA paperwork
4. Swap to a 16” upper and travel with no paperwork
5. Swap to a 16” upper and hunt where SBRs are prohibited for that use
that's good to know- thanks
Ok, technically 'no longer an SBR', but is the lower still a registered NFA item? The lower is the serialized and taxed part is it not?
Doesn’t matter. The law prohibits the possession of the SBR, not the “NFA registered lower”. If it doesn’t have a short barrel, it’s not an SBR.
This stuff isn’t spelled out clearly in the language of the NFA but it is/was part of their NFA FAQ on the ATF website. People way overthink this issue.
Texpatriate
04-30-19, 00:22
Banks are not an issue. I downsized a few years ago. Walked into a Bank of America , told them I was renting a box for gun storage.
They smiled when I came back with a bunch of subguns and MGs. Guard even helped carry everything.
Question for the OP. Why not just put a lock on your NFA lower, keep the key, leave it in your brother's safe and he won't have access to it?
Is that an option as far as preventing "access" to it? I mean, the lock prevents him from using it, but does he still have "access" to it? Its in his safe and he has the combination, so that's "access", right? It's baffling to me how asinine and arbitrary these laws can be.
Pretty sure that won't fly since he can still access it, lock or no lock.
Banks are not an issue. I downsized a few years ago. Walked into a Bank of America , told them I was renting a box for gun storage.
They smiled when I came back with a bunch of subguns and MGs. Guard even helped carry everything.
Question for the OP. Why not just put a lock on your NFA lower, keep the key, leave it in your brother's safe and he won't have access to it?
You have been given some solid options. Do not overthink this.
Is that an option as far as preventing "access" to it? I mean, the lock prevents him from using it, but does he still have "access" to it? Its in his safe and he has the combination, so that's "access", right? It's baffling to me how asinine and arbitrary these laws can be.
Yes. But it’s not under the purview of the NFA if not figured as an NFA firearm.
Meaning I can:
1. Remove the upper and sell the lower with no NFA paperwork
2. Remove the upper and travel with the lower across state lines with no paperwork
3. Swap to a 16” upper and sell the complete rifle with no NFA paperwork
4. Swap to a 16” upper and travel with no paperwork
5. Swap to a 16” upper and hunt where SBRs are prohibited for that use
So...#6 might be “Swap the upper to a 16” (or remove it) and give it to your father or brother to store for awhile”.
ginzomatic
04-30-19, 06:22
Banks are not an issue. I downsized a few years ago. Walked into a Bank of America , told them I was renting a box for gun storage.
They smiled when I came back with a bunch of subguns and MGs. Guard even helped carry everything.
As a Yankee, this is the expectation that I would have of the interaction in Texas- which is where the OP is located.
So...#6 might be “Swap the upper to a 16” (or remove it) and give it to your father or brother to store for awhile”.
Yep. Put the short upper on a pistol-configured lower. Or sell the short upper. Or send it to me and I’ll stick it in a safe. Or tape it up in a box and stick it in the attic, or in a friend’s garage/closet. Whatever you want.
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