View Full Version : I'm Considering Designing a Modular GP Pouch. Gauging Interest
Hi All,
I've recently had a chance to work on a few side projects, and I have been kicking around the idea of a low-profile, modular GP pouch for a while, as I am noticing that many of the GP pouches that I am using currently are great, but could use a materials update, and would be even better with a bit more modularity.
The pouch that I have in mind would be roughly 7" tall x 7" wide x 1.5" deep, and have the ability to be belt-mounted, as well as MOLLE/PALS compatible.
I'm interested in your thoughts and comments - Go!
EDIT: If you respond as "Maybe - tell me more..." in the poll, and you have a specific question or issue that you want to see addressed, leave a reply. I'll answer each one in a timely fashion.
telecustom
04-26-19, 11:35
One of the things I don’t like about the GP pouches out there is there is no compression to the pouch.
I hate it when the stuff in the pouch rattles around when the pouch isn’t full.
If you found a way to solve that problem, I would be interested.
One of the things I don’t like about the GP pouches out there is there is no compression to the pouch.
I hate it when the stuff in the pouch rattles around when the pouch isn’t full.
If you found a way to solve that problem, I would be interested.
Telecustom, I have worked out a couple solutions to fix this issue - one relies on compression.
BrigandTwoFour
04-27-19, 06:10
One of the things I don’t like about the GP pouches out there is there is no compression to the pouch.
I hate it when the stuff in the pouch rattles around when the pouch isn’t full.
If you found a way to solve that problem, I would be interested.
One British trick I've learned is wrapping a bit of shock cord around the pouch. On my Mayflower Jungle pouches, they actually left little loops for doing exactly this. You can tension the shock cord as much as you need to compression. As a bonus, it gives you somewhere to hang foliage if that's your thing.
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/p1040929.jpg
Tactical Tailor did something similar on their universal pouches, which have shock cord zig-zagged on the sides like an HSGI Taco.
I like this solution better than a band of elastic material because it's user replaceable if it ever breaks.
BrigandTwoFour, funny you should mention shock cord- that’s part of the solution. Right now I’m debating if it makes more sense to use grommets or loops to route the cord and accomplish the compression.
I never liked seen flat elastic for similar reasons...
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I'm a fan of shock cord for compression (ie Crye's Smart Pouch Suite). Problem with elastic is that it eventually wears out over time and can't be user replaced. Shockcord would solve that problem and (hopefully) lower production costs.
Would love to see a pouch made with lighter material like Hypalon, or something similar, but I know that material may be cost-prohibitive.
I'm a fan of shock cord for compression (ie Crye's Smart Pouch Suite). Problem with elastic is that it eventually wears out over time and can't be user replaced. Shockcord would solve that problem and (hopefully) lower production costs.
Would love to see a pouch made with lighter material like Hypalon, or something similar, but I know that material may be cost-prohibitive.
Bad Aim, you’re right in the money with everything that you’re suggesting, so to speak. I’m going to try and keep costs down, but also intend to use a lighter, more durable material like Hypalon for portions of the pouch where applicable. Laser cut Cordura is significantly lighter than identical sewn PALS sections as well, which would help with cost and weight reduction if a reasonable balance between the two can be reached.
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I'm bumping this thread, as there has been a lot of good feedback, but would love more. It's become clear that shock cord compression, as well as updated, light weight materials are of interest.
Any other things that you guys might be interested in?
BrigandTwoFour
04-30-19, 18:27
I guess it depends opn what kind of GP pouch you're going for. The Mayflower Jungle series (in my picture above), has a lot going for it. It has the tie off points and channels behind the buckles for shock cord, it's made from 500d for light weight, but also has ultracomp fronts for even lighter weight and water resistance. It has helium whisper backing, which is also super lightweight. It's also expensive.
I think it's a good base to start from, though. 500d for the sides and back, with something like ultracomp laminate on the closure side. Helium whisper, which I think is made of something like hypalon, is really nifty, but I don't care for the fact it still uses velcro. If you put a hypalon panel on the pack with traditional molle weave, or used something like the Whiskey Two Four WTFix system, it would be a winner in that regard. Add on an easy way to add/replace shock cord of either the usual small paracord-sized variety or the larger 1/4 stuff used by the Brits, and I'd be very interested.
BrigandTwoFour,
I haven't used the Mayflower jungle series personally, but I see what you mean by it having a lot going for it. I generally like the equipment that Mayflower/Velocity Systems produces, and have been meaning to check out their jungle pouches for some time now. I find that the velcro on the HW system isn't a deal-breaker for me, but using either a hypalon back panel or a system such as WTFix could not only be viable, but even preferable solution.
In relation to the jungle series size, the GP pouch that I have in mind would be smaller - enough to fit two to four magazines with the right inserts and retention, but also compact enough to cinch down the top and stick a variety of equipment in. Think something similar to a hybrid between a Spiritus Systems GP Pouch, and the Mayflower jungle pouches above, but more compact and adaptable. The idea is to have a pouch that can just as easily be used on a duty belt or on webbing, and adapted to carry many kinds of equipment in different contexts.
As for shock cord - I'm debating between sewing attachment points, or taking advantage of laser-cutting to make the attachment points lower profile (think similar to how the CRO Medical Medic Case has shock cord rigged in the below picture) in theory, less costly to produce in terms of manufacturing time and steps.
57075
I think that such a system would allow for a user-serviceable way to choose between no shock cord, the lightweight stuff, and the 1/4 stuff used by the Brits with minimal hassle.
I feel laser-cutting attachment points would be the way to go towards keeping costs down and I am a huge fan of WTFix straps. I've replaced all of my MALICE clips with them and they really do keep things more streamlined and the weight savings do add up over time if you have a lot of pouches.
I'm a fan of zippers and SR buckles, as velcro wears out over time and isn't user replaceable. I'm sure you can see a pattern of my posts...trying to get design features that can stand the test of time that'll last even 20 years later if it isn't being heavily abused. A buddy of mine gave me a few of his M4 mag pouches when he was in Afghanistan and the velcro closure pretty much doesn't stick anymore due to repeated use, rendering the pouches essentially useless haha.
Bad aim,
I'm definitely with you on laser-cutting and looking at WTFix straps - I have never used the WTFix system, so I am definitely interested in learning more about them. As this is a project that is being produced from the ground up, I am in a position of being able to use whichever standard would make the most sense, driven by potential end-user data. I'm open to figuring out what works for people who will use the design, as opposed to what I think might work or making an arbitrary decision.
Point well taken on velcro too - I can confirm that velcro closures degrade quickly under high use within my relative experience, and that's been consistent among my friends' impressions generally following their deployments overseas. I'm thinking that a replaceable top component might help mitigate this issue, and also provide more modularity for anyone who wants zippers, SR buckles, grommets/toggles/velcro, or any other attachment that their heart desires. This way, even if the pouch is abused, it won't need to be replaced entirely in many cases.
I feel laser-cutting attachment points would be the way to go towards keeping costs down and I am a huge fan of WTFix straps. I've replaced all of my MALICE clips with them and they really do keep things more streamlined and the weight savings do add up over time if you have a lot of pouches.
I'm a fan of zippers and SR buckles, as velcro wears out over time and isn't user replaceable. I'm sure you can see a pattern of my posts...trying to get design features that can stand the test of time that'll last even 20 years later if it isn't being heavily abused. A buddy of mine gave me a few of his M4 mag pouches when he was in Afghanistan and the velcro closure pretty much doesn't stick anymore due to repeated use, rendering the pouches essentially useless haha.
My main gripe with most GP pouches is the lack of built-in organization. I'm not that interested in just having a giant bag full of crap, I prefer to have lots of opportunities for organization so I can keep things in order. Basically I prefer large 'admin'-type pouches to GP pouches.
My main gripe with most GP pouches is the lack of built-in organization. I'm not that interested in just having a giant bag full of crap, I prefer to have lots of opportunities for organization so I can keep things in order. Basically I prefer large 'admin'-type pouches to GP pouches.
Joffe, that's one of the things that has been really frustrating as well, and I tend to lean towards the 'admin' type pouches because of the same issue. I will say though that some admin pouches have too much organization built in, which can get annoying too...
BrigandTwoFour
05-05-19, 20:47
Hey Leftie, your PMs are full so I couldn't get my response back to you.
Another closure option I'm a fan of is the "Tuck Tab' system. As far as i know, it was popularized by custom gear guy "Diz," who is pretty active over at Lightfighter. I have some small admin pouches designed by him for MVT. It's basically a stitched-in "tunnel" of material on one side, and a folded over length of webbing on the other to make a "tab." To close it, you insert one end into the tunnel. It's secure, easy to do one-handed, and totally silent. Here are some pictures:
Small pouches on the outside of the magazine slots
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/fullrig.jpg
Inserting the tab
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/tucktab1.jpg
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/tucktab2.jpg
BrigandTwoFour,
I've just cleared out my PMs, so everything should be up and running again!
Thanks for sending the pictures over to demonstrate the "Tuck Tabs" - it's a very cool and intuitive system; definitely something that I am interested in learning more about, as there may be an opportunity to use such a system on this design. From feedback on the GP pouch idea so far, there is a good amount of interest in silent opening and quick accessibility.
RobertTheTexan
05-05-19, 22:32
I’m a huge fan of multipurpose / GP pouches as I see them very functional from my chest rigs to various packs.
A couple things that bother me about current offerings. Just as an aside I’m currently using Tactical Tailor’s multipurpose pouch- it for most of my needs, but could be improved.
1. Weight- 1000 denier material is sturdy, but a lot of my pouches are the lighter 500 denier and they are holding up well. I’ve found for certain they are definitely not as touch as I recently had to super glue.m a cut in the flap of an ammo pouch.
2. Configurability - I definitely like a pouch that can be mounted using PALS or on a gun belt. Even pouches designed to be used on war belts have kind of rolled over on me. I’ve made me own workaround to this by using a 1” wide Velcro and since my war belt attaches to a Velcro inner belt, using the Velcro strap in lieu of any kind of malice strap secured my pouch to my belt much more tightly and also sticks to the inner belt.
3. Size - most of my GP pouches are on my right side and so taller pouches are a no-go because they interfere with my draw stroke even when using an RTI optimal drop platform.
4. Interior design - I like pouches with some kind of divider inside so I can better segregate the contents of my pouch.
4.a. Elastic straps inside GP pouches. When I’ve looked at the elastic straps inside most GP pouches , they appear to me an afterthought and no real purpose. That usually results in me forcing to fit something like spare trauma item in a too small elastic loop, or the loop being too large to really secure anything.
5. Modularity - I like my almost all my pouches to be able to serve multiple roles. i.e. using a universal mag pouch to hold an ifak, my Glock or water bottle. I like that and look for it in most of the pouches I buy.
6. Adaptability - PALS webbing on the outside is important to me. Especially if I have a thinner pouch and want to add a TQ holder or a pistol mag shingle. I recently started testing BFG’s “dangler”. I don’t think it’s called that but it attaches to where the malice clips lock in and dangles under whatever pouch you hook it to. I’ve used it for a TQ and spare disposable handcuffs. It’s not a GP pouch but I like the ability to hook in another piece of kit to some pouches.
7. Design - I like my GP pouches with the ability to give me full access. While it can be risky having a pouch with a full zippered opening - as in dumping the contents of the pouch out, I find I dislike even more pouches that only give me limited access and make me hunt for everything.
Well those are the things I look for in a GP pouch. I recently moved from a medium GP pouch to TT’a multipurpose pouch, which is one of the most useful pouches I’ve used and being shorter does not interfere with my draw stroke at all and is roomier than most people probably give it credit for.
I’d really like to see what you come up with. I definitely believe the GP pouch has room for improvement on many levels beyond material.
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RobertTheTexan
05-05-19, 22:34
Bad Aim, you’re right in the money with everything that you’re suggesting, so to speak. I’m going to try and keep costs down, but also intend to use a lighter, more durable material like Hypalon for portions of the pouch where applicable. Laser cut Cordura is significantly lighter than identical sewn PALS sections as well, which would help with cost and weight reduction if a reasonable balance between the two can be reached.
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I’ve noticed on the BFG rack minus that the laser cut PALS sections can stretch, especially with a 308 mag loaded with 2x 20 rd or 2x 25 rd 308 mags. Have you seen this or considers long term impact of having having heavier pouches mounted to the laser cut PALS?
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RoberttheTexan,
Really good points - I appreciate the feedback!
Funny enough, my favorite multipurpose/GP pouch is the Tactical Tailor multipurpose pouch, and as much as I have been trying to find a better option, I'm hard pressed to do so. They make the Fight Light version, which I prefer over the 1000 denier cordura original. I personally think that the Fight Light version is a bit better constructed too, as well as being made of 500d cordura.
I know how you feel about the elastic loops being a total afterthought and either being too small/large, especially being in the front, smaller pouch. I've crammed trauma items into those too small loops as well in the past, and then fumbled for it when I've needed it - not ideal...
Part of the idea is to keep things modular in nature, with quick access to contents either through flap closure or through a zipper. I don't want to over think the entire project, but I think that there are a number of things that can be done to make a pouch that is scalable and hassle-free which aren't being done in the market currently.
Re: your second post, I haven't personally experienced this in a pronounced way, but I have seen "sagging" from laser-cut sections after being woven and re-woven to the extent where it looks like they have been "pulled" or stretched a little. Granted, I've seen traditional PALS webbing stretch under prolonged stress, but in a different way. On the laser-cut side, I've seen it happen to the mounting platform, and less on the side of the pouch being mounted to PALS webbing.
Definitely something that could be tested with a few bags of led shot loaded into a GP pouch and left mounted for a few weeks...
I'm bumping this thread again, as I have gotten a ton of good responses, but would love even more feedback on the initial design.
Send this to anyone who might be interested!
Ok, so, an update for all interested:
I've reached out to a number of manufacturers to make a prototype and am beginning talks with a couple of them. If anyone is interested in being involved in depth in the product development, please send me a message if you haven't already. I'm working to make this a reality and get some of the V1 pouches out for T&E as soon as August.
As some folks have probably already pointed out-
-Sewn-on MOLLE attachment straps like First Spear, Tyr, and BFG do. I dig this. Way better then fooling with Malice clips (although the new fite light clips are worlds better than the bad old Malice clips if you must use them).
If possible, some sort of Hypalon helium-whisper-ish attachment for super cool lo-pro points, HOWEVER I have owned a ton of pouches with all different attachment methods and never seen enough difference to care between Hypalon and standard 1" webbing, other than perhaps a price jump...
-Don't get to carried away with internal organization. It all depends on the purpose of the pouch, and no single internal layout will please everyone, it just add weight to the pouch. I've owned multiple pouches with different types of internal org, and in the end, never used it- everything starts out organized, then when you need something, it gets yanked out of it's perfect little slot or elastic loop, which then collapses or gets lost under all the other shit you have in the pouch, and you end up just stuffing the item back in the pouch where ever it fits. Especially if the pouch is mounted on your SIDE, and you can't really crane your neck over enough to see in the thing... Except for med pouches, then it's worthwhile.
-Don't get too carried away with trying to make it do everything. All the do-all wonder-pouches I've seen either end up extremely bulky or extremely expensive...
At the end of the day, you may need two different pouches for different roles...
Diamondback
06-19-19, 17:45
Leftie, you might talk to MilitaryMorons here--this kind of R&D is his bag too, and he might have some useful ideas or suggestions.
patriot_man
06-21-19, 13:47
I would like to add that Crye does have a PALS and belt mount compatible GP pouch but I'm not sure if it's in the dimensions you're thinking about. Also, FirstSpear has solutions of taking normal PALs compatible pouches and making them belt compatible with their "First Link".
Jellybean,
All really good points, particularly the point of a GP pouch, and the fact that too much organization is absolutely irrelevant and counterproductive in many applications. The idea is to retain the ability to specialize/organize enough, but also allow someone to run the pouch as a true GP, stuffing things into the pouch as needed.
I am also making sure that price point and bulk are controlled on this one. As many have pointed out to me the "Jack of all trades is a master of none", which, for a GP pouch, might actually work out well, depending on how people use it.
As some folks have probably already pointed out-
-Sewn-on MOLLE attachment straps like First Spear, Tyr, and BFG do. I dig this. Way better then fooling with Malice clips (although the new fite light clips are worlds better than the bad old Malice clips if you must use them).
If possible, some sort of Hypalon helium-whisper-ish attachment for super cool lo-pro points, HOWEVER I have owned a ton of pouches with all different attachment methods and never seen enough difference to care between Hypalon and standard 1" webbing, other than perhaps a price jump...
-Don't get to carried away with internal organization. It all depends on the purpose of the pouch, and no single internal layout will please everyone, it just add weight to the pouch. I've owned multiple pouches with different types of internal org, and in the end, never used it- everything starts out organized, then when you need something, it gets yanked out of it's perfect little slot or elastic loop, which then collapses or gets lost under all the other shit you have in the pouch, and you end up just stuffing the item back in the pouch where ever it fits. Especially if the pouch is mounted on your SIDE, and you can't really crane your neck over enough to see in the thing... Except for med pouches, then it's worthwhile.
-Don't get too carried away with trying to make it do everything. All the do-all wonder-pouches I've seen either end up extremely bulky or extremely expensive...
At the end of the day, you may need two different pouches for different roles...
Leftie, you might talk to MilitaryMorons here--this kind of R&D is his bag too, and he might have some useful ideas or suggestions.
Diamondback, that's a great idea! I'll send him a message. Thanks for the suggestion.
I would like to add that Crye does have a PALS and belt mount compatible GP pouch but I'm not sure if it's in the dimensions you're thinking about. Also, FirstSpear has solutions of taking normal PALs compatible pouches and making them belt compatible with their "First Link".
Patriot_Man,
that's a really good point as well about the Crye belt mount and PALS compatibility, and they have a really good system. I'm actually taking a few of the qualities that I like from their smart pouch suite of pouches, and incorporating them into the design of this pouch. First Link is an awesome product, as are Esstac's KYWI belt loops, and I might even opt to have them be the preferred belt-mounting solution as opposed to what I've come up with, depending on if they work better for the given application.
Pinging the thread with an update: There's been a bunch of great responses through my inbox regarding this project. I've been able to refine the initial idea through a number of questionnaires as well, and might post some of the data that I've been able to compile.
RobertTheTexan
07-02-19, 21:36
I wrote this in my survey, but a pouch with full rows of PALS, can be easily mounted to a war belt, you just can’t really use malice clips as they tend to roll on you. Using Velcro I’ve secured PALS pouches to my war belt and they are as secure as any belt designated pouch. I have not figured out a method to secure that also provides a quick release for repositioning , but the point is that a 4x6 row of PALS similar to what TT does. Isn’t a death sentence for a belt platform.
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RobertTheTexan,
All good points, I'm finding that many people like the idea of a Helium Whisper-style system for attachment, and am looking at options right now (WTFix straps are really, really attractive as a potential mounting option, I'm finding out, although it remains to be seen if they are preferred compared to MALICE etc.) PALS is especially useful when paired with Esstac KYWI belt loops, but I am also exploring a direct-mounting system similar to Crye's Smart Pouch system, as well as a couple other belt-mounting systems on the market, especially with the interest that many people in the survey conveyed in having two different mounting heights.
Hi All,
Another update: I've been in contact with a number of manufacturers and gear designers, and I believe that I've narrowed down my search to two companies that will be able to produce the initial prototype, and may also be able to work on an initial small batch.
I'll update more as I have news.
Hi All,
Here's the latest update: in the next few days I'll be submitting more details to the company that I chose to work with for the prototype of this pouch. I'll have a more concrete timeframe regarding this project and the initial prototype shortly.
Thanks for sticking with me as I develop this concept into a reality!
Another update!
I've submitted a technical package to the particular company today and am waiting to hear back on comments and an initial project timeline.
For those of you who have been engaged in the process, an update email was sent out. This should be exciting!
I'll be keeping the Google Forms questionnaires active as well to continue building a living dataset, so, if anyone is interested in contributing to this product's development who hasn't already, let me know.
RobertTheTexan
11-07-19, 10:27
Another update!
I've submitted a technical package to the particular company today and am waiting to hear back on comments and an initial project timeline.
For those of you who have been engaged in the process, an update email was sent out. This should be exciting!
I'll be keeping the Google Forms questionnaires active as well to continue building a living dataset, so, if anyone is interested in contributing to this product's development who hasn't already, let me know.
Got the email - thanks for keeping "the team" updated! I cannot wait to see what the final product looks like. I really like that I've been able to contribute my opinions in all the questionnaires we've done so far. Thanks for keeping this thread updated!
Hey All,
I have a potential timeline and an update: I've heard back from the gear designer who I have been working with, and the earliest timeframe that we are going to see a prototype and generation 1 of this project will be Summer 2020-end of Summer 2020. I'm going to do what I can to speed-up the timeframe, generally speaking, but I would be interested in your opinions here, as I want to be fully transparent in the project's status as well as in managing expectations as the timeline changes etc.
Hi All,
I have an update here - given the relative disturbances to normalcy caused by COVID-19, I am waiting on an updated timeframe from the gear designer who I am working with. I have a soft-commitment of end of Summer 2020 for the prototype from them, and am finalizing a formal contract with them in the next week, provided there are no hiccups here.
Hi All,
Another update - I have been in touch with the designer regarding disruptions to their workflow from COVID-19, and have been told that they may be able to resume work on this project as early as August, however the timeframe is still in flux.
Thanks for bearing with the craziness in what is otherwise a pretty straightforward, well-defined project. I'll update as things progress.
Hi All,
I have a significant update - a prototype has been made, and I should have it in hand by end of week, provided there are no hiccups. Once I have the first prototype, I'll be conducting some testing and evaluation over the next few weeks to hammer out any alterations.
More news to come soon!
Good to hear. I really thought the beer virus would have derailed your whole project indefinitely.
Good to hear. I really thought the beer virus would have derailed your whole project indefinitely.
Fortunately that's not the case, but there are a number of manufacturers who have never busier in terms of demand, and are also trying to deal with supply chain issues. For context, the virus did lengthen development time by nearly 9 months. I'm treating this as a blessing in disguise in terms of idea maturation, as there have been a bunch of developments over the past 9 months that has helped to inform the design.
I am in possession of the V1 prototype pouch.
I am in possession of the V1 prototype pouch.
Ooh ooh ohh! Pics!!
Sent from 80ms in the future
Ooh ooh ohh! Pics!!
Sent from 80ms in the future
As this is the initial prototype, I'm keeping photos of it under wraps outside of a testing group until there is a more mature product.
Annoying, sure, but I'd rather bring something more mature to the public space as opposed to what is as of right now an untested design with a number of novel features.
Rest assured, this pouch is going to be pretty darn awesome, given what's gone into the design.
As this is the initial prototype, I'm keeping photos of it under wraps outside of a testing group until there is a more mature product.
Annoying, sure, but I'd rather bring something more mature to the public space as opposed to what is as of right now an untested design with a number of novel features.
Rest assured, this pouch is going to be pretty darn awesome, given what's gone into the design.
You’re mean!
(pout)
Was pretty sure you weren’t going going to post, but had to ask. Hope it’s turning out how you want.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Thanks again to all of you who are actively involved with this project.
Things are progressing very nicely regarding concept, design, and now implementation. Excited to see where this continues to lead.
RobertTheTexan
11-04-20, 08:42
Thanks again to all of you who are actively involved with this project.
Things are progressing very nicely regarding concept, design, and now implementation. Excited to see where this continues to lead.
Heck yeah, this is exciting news indeed!!
Heck yeah, this is exciting news indeed!!
As we gain momentum on this project, there's going to be a lot more exciting news coming!
telecustom
11-05-20, 15:47
Had a 3 hour call with Leftie today about the project. He has a great design and I look forward to seeing what the next step will be.
Hi All,
Happy New Year! It's hard to believe that we are nearly two years into this project.
I have some exciting news - an updated design with changes has been submitted to the designer in anticipation of a version 1.2 prototype being made.
I'll keep you all up to date as things progress. With any luck 2021 will be the year where small production batches will begin.
Hi All,
A quick update here - I've chosen to develop a couple add-on components to the pouch along with the updated design - it made more sense to have all of this done at the same time, and while it may take a bit longer to receive an updated pouch, it will be a very well-executed design with a fair bit more functionality from the get go.
Hi All,
An update here. This project is still going, just taking a bit longer than expected. I appreciate everyone's patience!
Hi All,
Another update: this project is still active and ongoing.
Hi All,
I am in posession of the updated V1 prototype, which is undergoing initial T&E over the coming months.
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