7.62x39 Ammo Choices...

[Razorhunter]

Hey guys,
I've been searching the forum, in an attempt to find a good thread or two, which covers 7.62x39 AK ammo, but haven't found much yet.
Doc's thread did come up, but it only mentions a few 7.62x39 rounds and their performance.
Now I'm not really looking to get knee deep into a long, drawn out ballistic/performance discussion, but I would like to get a few recommendations on which (if any?) Wolf ammo would be best for these two purposes??? (training and SHTF/self defense)??
I mean, I'm sure about any of the Wolf could be used for training/range use, but which do you guys recommend for TRAINING purposes??? (if not Wolf, then what ammo do you prefer for training with 7.62x39??)
How about a good self defense round in this caliber for an AK? Is ANY of the Wolf decent for defense? How about the HP Wolf round??

Let me close by asking this: Just HOW MANY Wolf rounds in 7.62x39 are available guys?? I have never really known, and would like to know WHICH are the best/most liked, and which are the ones to stay away from???
Thanks guys.


BTW,
I would love to hear input on other ammo in this caliber, such as the infamous "Golden Tiger" which I have heard mentioned quite a bit.
As you can see, I'm simply trying to decide on which ammo to stock up on, most importantly for SHTF/defense purposes, but also for training as well.
I would LOVE to find one single round, which might possibly be affordabl enough to cover both purposes. Realizing of course, that the BEST defense ammo would not be this affordable, but maybe there is a "compromise" round, which would fair decently as a defensive round perhaps?? (or is this just wishful thinking???)
Thanks guys.

[Fail-Safe]

Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP with the 8M3 is what you are looking for. Cheap enough to practice with, and offers good terminal performance.

I find that I have fewer issues with the WMC lineup than any other Russian ammo manufacturers. WMC is loaded by Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant. It seems they actually put more R&D into, and take more their product. WMC comes in the 3-color desert'ish box.

Here's Dr Roberts findings on the 8M3 JHP


Of note, most of the “cheap” Russian JHP/JSP ammunition offers poor terminal performance. The one that seems to work is the 7.62x39mm Saspan 124 gr JHP (Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant; 8M3 bullet); from a 16” AKMS the data is:

BG: vel=2297 f/s, pen=15.0”, Max TC=10cm@18cm, RD=0.63”, RW=100.5gr"

Winchester makes a 123gr JSP in their Super-X lineup. Unfortunately, in my experience, accuracy hasnt been on par with Russian stuff. I dont recall if the Winchester stuff is .308 or .311, it could also be the brass case. It does expand well, but its expensive to practice with.

Corbon has two loads in 7.62x39. A 125gr JHP and a 150gr JSP. Both are .308Win rounds stuffed into the smaller 7.62x39 case. If it doesnt perform at the .308Win velocities it was designed for, what makes them think it will perform at 7.62x39's slower velocity?

[Razorhunter]

Hey Failsafe,
THANKS so much. That's exactly what I was looking for. Great info.

Here are a few questions I've been wanting to ask about the Wolf. I've got two Wolf rounds sitting here in front of me, one of which is the Wolf Black Box round, which has a grey colored steel case, and it has the red coloring around the primer, which means it's sealed I suppose.
Then, I've got the regular Wolf Military Classic round which has a goldish colored case, which appears to have some lacquer? on the casing?? (not sure exactly???)
THIS round not only has the sealed primer, but it ALSO has the sealed bullet at the neck. Questions:

1. WHY doesn't the Wolf black have the sealed bullet like the Wolf Military Classic does????

2. What is the difference in these two rounds casings???

3. Do these two rounds use the same powder?

4. Why is Wolf so dirty? Is it ONLY because they are using dirty powder??

5. Finally, HOW MANY Wolf rounds exist in 7.62x39 ?? (here in America)
I know of TWO, both of which I've described above: Military Classic
Black Box
-Are there any other Wolf rounds that I've not mentioned?????


Thanks so much.

[buzz_knox]

Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP with the 8M3 is what you are looking for. Cheap enough to practice with, and offers good terminal performance.

I find that I have fewer issues with the WMC lineup than any other Russian ammo manufacturers. WMC is loaded by Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant. It seems they actually put more R&D into, and take more their product. WMC comes in the 3-color desert'ish box.



Have you had any feeding issues with this load?

[Fail-Safe]

In two Romanian SAR-1s, no. In a Chicom Cowboy Companion "Paratrooper SKS", no. In a Sino-Soviet SKS, no.

In a Hungarian SA85M, yes. A few test rounds, and some work from Mike at Texas Brigade Armory, no problems.

[Fail-Safe]

WMC was originally imported using the green lacquered steel case, with sealant on the primer and case neck. Then they went to the plastic gray coating, but the sealant at both ends.

Wolf Performance dropped the lacquered casing 3-4 years ago. When they went to that gray plastic coating, they dropped the sealant from the neck, AFAIK.


With both current Wolf brands using the same coating, its harder to distinguish the two. On the boxes, WMC will always be 124gr, and Wolf Performance will always be 122gr. On the ammo, the casings will have their respective plant markings on the case head. I dont remember what Wolf Performance is off the top of my head(I dont use it). However. WMC marking is the crossed arrows of Ulyanovsk.

There are 3 Wolf "brands" that have been imported that I know of. You've got:

Wolf Performance aka "Black Box" from Tula Cartridge Works

Wolf Military Classic aka "WMC" from Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant

Wolf something. I dont remember the actual name, but its a truely copper and lead bullet imported for folks whose chosen ranges wouldnt let them shoot the bi-metal stuff. It was more expensive, for obvious reasons, and never really took off.

I'll see if I can find a pic of two Wolf rounds from a few years ago.

[Razorhunter]

WMC was originally imported using the green lacquered steel case, with sealant on the primer and case neck. Then they went to the plastic gray coating, but the sealant at both ends.

Wolf Performance dropped the lacquered casing 3-4 years ago. When they went to that gray plastic coating, they dropped the sealant from the neck, AFAIK.


With both current Wolf brands using the same coating, its harder to distinguish the two. On the boxes, WMC will always be 124gr, and Wolf Performance will always be 122gr. On the ammo, the casings will have their respective plant markings on the case head. I dont remember what Wolf Performance is off the top of my head(I dont use it). However. WMC marking is the crossed arrows of Ulyanovsk.

There are 3 Wolf "brands" that have been imported that I know of. You've got:

Wolf Performance aka "Black Box" from Tula Cartridge Works

Wolf Military Classic aka "WMC" from Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant

Wolf something. I dont remember the actual name, but its a truely copper and lead bullet imported for folks whose chosen ranges wouldnt let them shoot the bi-metal stuff. It was more expensive, for obvious reasons, and never really took off.

I'll see if I can find a pic of two Wolf rounds from a few years ago.


Ok Failsafe,
I understand everything you have stated, but I have a bit of a confusing matter here.
You have stated above, that the Wolf "Performance" ammo comes in the black box, and is always 122gr. I actually have 500 rds of this stuff, just recently purchased to try out for myself for practice/range use. It is exactly as you describe.
You have ALSO stated (above), that the Wolf "Military Classic" ammo, comes in the desert camo box, and is always 124gr stuff.
Now here is where the confusion stems: I recently bought some Wolf from a buddy of mine, (200rds to be exact), ALL of which, is in boxes that are labeled "Wolf Performance Ammunition". "Military Classic". It is the desert camo box that you talk about, and it is 124gr FMJ (NOT the JHP 8M3 bullet).

I'm a bit confused, because you have stated that "Wolf Performance" and "Wolf Military Classic" are TWO different ammo companies. HOWEVER, as stated, I have a "Wolf Performance Military Classic" in the desert camo box, that is 124gr FMJ. This stuff has the lacquered casing, that appears almost yellowish/greenish, and it's got the red sealant at the primer AND the case neck area.
What gives??? This Wolf stuff really is confusing!

I sure wish I had some of the JHP 8M3 bullet Wolf MC though. I need to find a source for it soon.
Thanks FailSafe, for all your info.

[Fail-Safe]

In the Wolf Military Classic lineup there is both a 124gr FMJ, and a 124gr JHP(8M3). Because they are the same price, I dont even look at the FMJs. No reason to.

I refer to Wolf Performance Military Classic as Wolf Military Classic to try avoid any confusion between the two products.

[Razorhunter]

Ok, so they are BOTH "WOLF PERFORMANCE". It's just that ONE is a MC, and one is not.
Simple enough.


Since I have 500 rounds of this Wolf Black Box 122gr JHP stuff, it would be nice to know how much "better" the Military Classics 124gr JHP (8M3) bullet is?
I would have hoped they would have used the same bullet in the two JHP rounds.
Guess not. I wonder what makes the 8M3 JHP bullet better than the Black Box JHP bullet???

[Fail-Safe]

I guess you can say that they are both Wolf Performance, but thats just going to cloud the issue more. One is Wolf Performance or "Black Box", the other is Wolf Military Classic.

They arent going to use the same bullet because they are made by two different companies. Wolf Performance is Tula Cartridge Works(TCW). Wolf Military Classic is Ulyanovsk Machinery Plant(UMP, Uly). Wolf is just the importer.

As for why the 8M3 bullet is better, well Uly wanted to distinguish themselves from the other Russian ammo companies. And why not? As for what makes the bullet different, it has to do with the jacket, and the scores along the inside, so I'm told by an AK enthusiast and instructor. I personally dont know all the details and what not.