View Full Version : Lessons from Mogadishu: Kyle Lamb, Larry Perino, and Lee VanArsdale
Back in October, on the 25th anniversary of the Battle of Mogadishu, Kyle Lamb, Larry Perino, and Lee VanArsdale spoke about their experiences and lessons learned during the battle at the Modern War Institute at West Point. It's almost an hour and a half long, but it's worth the time to watch it.
https://youtu.be/yFwivrpFHE0
This showed up on my feed a couple days ago.
Definitely worth the time to watch!
Few singular events have led to so much innovation and change as those two days. Awesome video.
diving dave
05-03-19, 08:48
Kyle L. is awesome, one of the best instructors I've trained under. A true warrior.
I’ll be “that guy”. The teal lesson is not to waste manpower or money playing peace corps with guns and if someone requests Bradleys and AC-130s give it to them.
I’ll be “that guy”. The teal lesson is not to waste manpower or money playing peace corps with guns and if someone requests Bradleys and AC-130s give it to them.
IIRC Les Aspin was the SecDef who denied that request (and I *think* it was for Abrams tanks too).
I’ll be “that guy”. The teal lesson is not to waste manpower or money playing peace corps with guns and if someone requests Bradleys and AC-130s give it to them.
And never put American troops in a situation they are dependent on support from foreign troops like the Pakistanis, or under the command of the UN. That has never gone well for anyone involved. If we can’t help ourselves then let the UN approve use of arms, but the military command should be US if US troops are involved because we always make up 90% of the troops and equipment.
I’ll be “that guy”. The teal lesson is not to waste manpower or money playing peace corps with guns and if someone requests Bradleys and AC-130s give it to them.
And what our enemies confirmed for themselves via what OBL told them would happen, give the US a bloody nose and they'll take their toys and leave. That failure of leadership from start to finish embolden our enemies more than anything else and was an op by OBL himself as a testing ground for his future plans. I suspect he underestimated our willingness to finally go dig him and his followers out of their holes in A Stan and elsewhere, but the damage was done and still being done. The guys on the ground did the best they could with what they have to be sure, but did so with one arm and one leg tied behind their backs and kicked a whole lotta ass anyway. There were only 5-6 SEALs on the ground in the middle of all that, one of whom is the Executive Director of the UDT-SEAL Museum, Master Chief Richard (Rick) Kaiser, BMCM SEAL (Ret):
https://www.navysealmuseum.org/about-the-navy-seal-museum/museum-staff
I’ll be “that guy”. The teal lesson is not to waste manpower or money playing peace corps with guns and if someone requests Bradleys and AC-130s give it to them.
Yep, playing UN "world police" is not worth our time, money, effort or the lives of an US service member. And as somebody else noted, if you aren't willing to finish the fight, don't go get into one. Our perceived weakness from that event led directly to 9-11 when our enemies determined we lacked resolve.
But once our guys were being dragged through the streets on CNN Congress pulled support for a mission they sent us on. It was the wrong move, we should have really taken it to them. But Congress doesn't understand these things and few Presidents have had greater disdain for the US military than Bill Clinton.
And what our enemies confirmed for themselves via what OBL told them would happen, give the US a bloody nose and they'll take their toys and leave. That failure of leadership from start to finish embolden our enemies more than anything else and was an op by OBL himself as a testing ground for his future plans. I suspect he underestimated our willingness to finally go dig him and his followers out of their holes in A Stan and elsewhere, but the damage was done and still being done. The guys on the ground did the best they could with what they have to be sure, but did so with one arm and one leg tied behind their backs and kicked a whole lotta ass anyway. There were only 5-6 SEALs on the ground in the middle of all that, one of whom is the Executive Director of the UDT-SEAL Museum, Master Chief Richard (Rick) Kaiser, BMCM SEAL (Ret):
https://www.navysealmuseum.org/about-the-navy-seal-museum/museum-staff
Seals were busy elsewhere.
By the time Gothic Serpent happened, we had been doing UN bullshit for two years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eastern_Exit
Seals were busy elsewhere.
By the time Gothic Serpent happened, we had been doing UN bullshit for two years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eastern_Exit
I'm sure there may have been SEALs involved in that particular incident, but the vast majority were Rangers, Delta, 160th SOAR (the choppers), and some 10th Mountain guys who were on the relief column.
I'm sure there may have been SEALs involved in that particular incident, but the vast majority were Rangers, Delta, 160th SOAR (the choppers), and some 10th Mountain guys who were on the relief column.
Plus, units were being rotated through. The Marines were in there and then relieved by the Rangers and Delta once it was beyond just securing humanitarian handouts and the mission became focused on rooting out the militia HQ.
That’s the thing, our politicians get involved and start telling the military how to do their job ( thus the daylight raid). If the Ranger commanders insisted on using the same flight routes and exact same takedown tactics then shame on them. But the arbitrary deadlines and mission creep were civilian and military politicians.
IIRC Les Aspin was the SecDef who denied that request (and I *think* it was for Abrams tanks too).
Janet Reno had more armor at Waco than Aspin did in Mogadishu.
I'm sure there may have been SEALs involved in that particular incident, but the vast majority were Rangers, Delta, 160th SOAR (the choppers), and some 10th Mountain guys who were on the relief column.
You are correct, I was referring to different events.
Janet Reno had more armor at Waco than Aspin did in Mogadishu.
So true it's not even funny. Also really shows the priorities of the Clinton Administration. Too bad we didn't just burn down the Olympic Hotel.
A lot of learning opportunities were swept under the rug. There was never an official AAR.
I still remember watching the insertion of the very first U.S. forces into Somalia.....SEALs who came ashore at night with TV cameras and lights greeting them on the beach! You could tell they weren't happy about it, all tactical and shit but with some glaring light shining off of the dark camo on their faces. Kind of like "Get that f*****g light out of my face!"
I watched it live on the news. I was working the afternoon shift at a hospital. George the Elder was POTUS. I recall watching that spectacle and shaking my head.
Here ya go (you can find anything these days!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj9Fn3qG-Cw
just a scout
05-05-19, 08:55
But Congress doesn't understand these things and few Presidents have had greater disdain for the US military than Bill Clinton.
Until Obama said “hold my beer”.
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I'm sure there may have been SEALs involved in that particular incident, but the vast majority were Rangers, Delta, 160th SOAR (the choppers), and some 10th Mountain guys who were on the relief column.
There was at least one SEAL involved in that battle. Howard Wasdin was a SEAL Team 6 sniper, was heavily wounded in the battle and received a silver star for his actions.
My first PSG was there as part of the 10th Mountain LRS. I was told by another member of the platoon that the PSG was one of only 6 people alive who was authorized to wear the 10th mountain patch with the airborne tab above it as a combat patch. Now this was all pre 9-11 and I was a clueless PFC so who knows
sniperfrog
05-05-19, 12:19
I still remember watching the insertion of the very first U.S. forces into Somalia.....SEALs who came ashore at night with TV cameras and lights greeting them on the beach! You could tell they weren't happy about it, all tactical and shit but with some glaring light shining off of the dark camo on their faces. Kind of like "Get that f*****g light out of my face!"
I watched it live on the news. I was working the afternoon shift at a hospital. George the Elder was POTUS. I recall watching that spectacle and shaking my head.
Here ya go (you can find anything these days!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj9Fn3qG-Cw
Those were Force Recon Marines, not SEALs. The Marine commander of that opreration informed the media where his guys would be coming ashore so they can get pictures. It was supposed to be a show of force to the Somalis. Pretty dumb idea.
There was at least one SEAL involved in that battle. Howard Wasdin was a SEAL Team 6 sniper, was heavily wounded in the battle and received a silver star for his actions.I'm sure you already know this, but for anyone else interested his book SEAL Team Six covers a lot of what he did in Mogadishu. Pretty interesting read.
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Those were Force Recon Marines, not SEALs. The Marine commander of that opreration informed the media where his guys would be coming ashore so they can get pictures. It was supposed to be a show of force to the Somalis. Pretty dumb idea.
I stand corrected (for some reason I thought it was SEALs, maybe because of the seaborne insertion). Either way I was like "WTF?" I had gotten out of the Army as a grunt maybe 5 years earlier and knew what a dog-and-pony show looked like.
There was at least one SEAL involved in that battle. Howard Wasdin was a SEAL Team 6 sniper, was heavily wounded in the battle and received a silver star for his actions.
There were 5. Kaiser was with Waz and extracted him after being wounded and went back in as i understands it:
https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/55878
Unfortunately, he recently lost his lower leg, but not due to combat related
https://www.unionleader.com/news/health/retired-navy-seal-to-regain-footing-with-help-from-a/article_94343ebd-cf4d-53f5-b061-fd505b3c66ad.html
Saw him briefly today at the museum.
There were 5. Kaiser was with Waz and extracted him after being wounded and went back in as i understands it:
https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/55878
Unfortunately, he recently lost his lower leg, but not due to combat related
https://www.unionleader.com/news/health/retired-navy-seal-to-regain-footing-with-help-from-a/article_94343ebd-cf4d-53f5-b061-fd505b3c66ad.html
Saw him briefly today at the museum.
That's amazing that you get to see him. You work at the museum too right?
I'm sorry about the loss of his foot in the accident. That's a hero all the way.
That's amazing that you get to see him. You work at the museum too right?
I'm sorry about the loss of his foot in the accident. That's a hero all the way.
I'm a tour/answer guy on Sundays yes. Several member of M4C have come buy. Some day maybe an official M4C Fl chapter type visit should get formed up. It's an awesome place and historically essential location to WWII where we trained for D Day and NSW, as well as OSS (which went on to be the CIA) was created. It's also not far from KAC, but that's not open to the public ;)
I stand corrected (for some reason I thought it was SEALs, maybe because of the seaborne insertion). Either way I was like "WTF?" I had gotten out of the Army as a grunt maybe 5 years earlier and knew what a dog-and-pony show looked like.
If it was the SEALs there would be at least three more books and a movie.
ST6 was there, but for entirely different purposes.
Here's another video on the Battle of Mogadishu. This video is Michael Durant speaking in 2011 before the US Army War College about his experience during the battle and how it affected him. The video is also a little long, but it's worth watching.
https://youtu.be/p30dV6IEMO8
The U.S. military is not a winning organization. It is not the great enlisted people that are the problem.
SeriousStudent
05-11-19, 19:04
The U.S. military is not a winning organization. It is not the great enlisted people that are the problem.
You know, Steve, I'm trying to think of a single positive contribution you have made here, and I'm coming up short. Why don't you take a break and rest up for a while?
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