View Full Version : Firearms at auction...
Is there no chance that this "Himmler" pistol was faked? I know that's a constant issue with Nazi memorabilia:
https://i.imgur.com/XoTvrTN.png
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/12/top-5-most-expensive-firearms-sold-in-may-2019-rock-island-premiere-firearms-auction/
For that price, I would have gone with the tank.
You have to assume there is documentation on the history proving the gun is indeed legit...just can't imagine any enthusiast dropping that sort of coin without.
I don't keep up with the RI auctions but have a couple of customers I help with when the Julia's comes around. The book they put out prior to auction is a work of art...my guys get them free being good customers but think it's around 150 bones to purchase. These guys are the nuts & had some first class full autos last month. Here's the items & pricing from 2-3 weeks ago:
https://www.morphyauctions.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2019-Apr-24-25-Firearms-PR.pdf
Why would I buy that gun? It didn't seem to help them out very much....
Straight Shooter
05-12-19, 18:54
I wouldnt have it in my home or possession if you GAVE IT to me. I do not understand the obsession with those demonic bastards shit, outside of a museum for historical purposes.
There's a longtime fascination with Nazi Germany, especially with their weapons, uniforms, and insignia.
Is there no chance that this "Himmler" pistol was faked? I know that's a constant issue with Nazi memorabilia:
I can assure you that it was fully researched and proven to be the real thing or Rock Island Auction wouldn't offer it for sale.
Not without a letter from Himmler.
I can assure you that it was fully researched and proven to be the real thing or Rock Island Auction wouldn't offer it for sale.
Not exactly true. Rock Island and Julia have both sold German snipers that were found out on collector forums to fakes before the auction was even ended. Even the most educated collectors make mistakes and sometimes buy a bad one. The also both sold German SS helmets with what was called champagne runes, that were vetted by the man who wrote the book on SS helmets, Kelly Hicks. These were later shown to he elaborate fakes that fooled many collectors, and for big bucks too. Just like any collecting hobby, cars, guitars, art, etc; if there is money to be makes there are people faking chit.
You have to assume there is documentation on the history proving the gun is indeed legit...just can't imagine any enthusiast dropping that sort of coin without.
I don't keep up with the RI auctions but have a couple of customers I help with when the Julia's comes around. The book they put out prior to auction is a work of art...my guys get them free being good customers but think it's around 150 bones to purchase. These guys are the nuts & had some first class full autos last month. Here's the items & pricing from 2-3 weeks ago:
https://www.morphyauctions.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2019-Apr-24-25-Firearms-PR.pdf
Morphys is about 30 min from me. Been there a lot over the years. The gun auction is a two day event. Like you said the get some high prices, but every now and then I pick something up under market value.
Why would I buy that gun? It didn't seem to help them out very much....
I wouldnt have it in my home or possession if you GAVE IT to me. I do not understand the obsession with those demonic bastards shit, outside of a museum for historical purposes.I like many of their firearms. Not because it's Nazi, but because they came up with a lot of cool and innovative stuff. Some of which had a direct impact on later firearms. Although not a Nazi gun but used in WW2, my holy Grail would be a C96. It's the one gun I've always wanted since I can remember.
Can't get into medals and uniforms though,.....or anything else really
Not exactly true. Rock Island and Julia have both sold German snipers that were found out on collector forums to fakes before the auction was even ended. Even the most educated collectors make mistakes and sometimes buy a bad one. The also both sold German SS helmets with what was called champagne runes, that were vetted by the man who wrote the book on SS helmets, Kelly Hicks. These were later shown to he elaborate fakes that fooled many collectors, and for big bucks too. Just like any collecting hobby, cars, guitars, art, etc; if there is money to be makes there are people faking chit.
Yeah, then there is the problem of what constitutes a fake.
During the occupation after the war, LOTS of SS and SA daggers were assembled for the first time from original materials at the factories that produced them. At a time when people who owned a genuine SS uniform were burning the evidence, occupational forces were making their own souvenirs using authentic materials.
The only things not being faked / reproduced or manufactured post war were those items that were simply too common like bayonets and helmets. Unless of course the helmet in question was associated with a rare or infamous unit, then they simply had them painted as needed.
The hard part about third reich militaria is none of it was manufactured to be a collectors item, it was simply military equipment and it was just as easy to produce in 1947 as it was in 1942 or even 1955 and later in some cases. I have probably seen a few dozen legit Lugers destroyed because somebody tried to create a cadet Luger or something similar. I've even seen them with "death heads" stamped into them and that was never done, but people see it, buy it and think it's real.
I like many of their firearms. Not because it's Nazi, but because they came up with a lot of cool and innovative stuff. Some of which had a direct impact on later firearms. Although not a Nazi gun but used in WW2, my holy Grail would be a C96. It's the one gun I've always wanted since I can remember.
Can't get into medals and uniforms though,.....or anything else really
What I mean is if you had an authenticated Browning that some Kraut used to like Alvin York himself out of an Ivan charge and he had like fitty dead rooskies killt and that one Browning was the only reason he lived to be 102....I might care because A) I know it works and B) it has a badass story behind it
but some ornate pistol for some dweeby four eyed homo that's a Walther PP at days end? Naw
I like my war era Winchester Garand. Didnt cost me a crazy amount(not exactly cheap though...), was actually used, and obviously works because no import marks.
plus....it keeps undesirables off my lawn
I recently started collecting WWII small arms - both Axis and Allies, and I wouldn't mind having that pistol in my collection because whether others like it or not, it does have historic significance. My father taught history at Carter High School in Dallas for 27 years, and he ingrained in me a deep love of history.
Now, with that being said, I would put just as much value on a documented, vet bring back Luger.
I can assure you that it was fully researched and proven to be the real thing or Rock Island Auction wouldn't offer it for sale.
Several auction houses have unknowing sold fakes which have both fooled the auction house and knowledgeable collectors.
No guarantees in this world. If your smart enough to make the coin its on you to be smart enough to spend it. Ive handled some very nice looking guns out of RI auctions that were completely monkeyed with but had past muster with their "experts" and sold for considerable amounts.
If one where to be seriously interested in a piece such as this, Id start by googling "himmlers pistol" or "himmlers walther" and see what pops up. Guns like this dont exist or move around without creating forum chatter. I wouldnt be suprised to find several pistols claiming to be himmlers, also with papers... Or maybe it is just this one and you can pick up on how often it sold for and for how much or whose collection has it sat in.
Is it a factory engraved Walther? Check a Walther forum, factory engraved guns are a big deal and forum experts opinions will be valuable. They may even already have a thread on it.
So called"Nazi" guns or stuff doesnt scare me, but I cant stand shiney decorator guns. Moreover I couldnt stand that its value comes from once being owned by a wretched, feckless, little pencil pushing, bureaucratic sh!tweasel like himmler.
Wouldnt mind being the guy to sell it though. I d add a version of the above to the sales listing and post copies of the hate emails I would inevitably reciever from the darker lonelier basements of America.
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
No guarantees in this world. If your smart enough to make the coin its on you to be smart enough to spend it. Ive handled some very nice looking guns out of RI auctions that were completely monkeyed with but had past muster with their "experts" and sold for considerable amounts.
If one where to be seriously interested in a piece such as this, Id start by googling "himmlers pistol" or "himmlers walther" and see what pops up. Guns like this dont exist or move around without creating forum chatter. I wouldnt be suprised to find several pistols claiming to be himmlers, also with papers... Or maybe it is just this one and you can pick up on how often it sold for and for how much or whose collection has it sat in.
Is it a factory engraved Walther? Check a Walther forum, factory engraved guns are a big deal and forum experts opinions will be valuable. They may even already have a thread on it.
So called"Nazi" guns or stuff doesnt scare me, but I cant stand shiney decorator guns. Moreover I couldnt stand that its value comes from once being owned by a wretched, feckless, little pencil pushing, bureaucratic sh!tweasel like himmler.
Wouldnt mind being the guy to sell it though. I d add a version of the above to the sales listing and post copies of the hate emails I would inevitably reciever from the darker lonelier basements of America.
Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
The only part that actually bothers me is it sounds like a vet bring back and the family isn't going to keep it to honor their veteran, they are just gonna "cash out." I think I've seen too much Pawn Stars where shitheel relatives inherit valuable items, pawn them for 30% of their value so they can try their luck at the casino. It's so disrespectful.
I could sell a lot of my grandfathers bring backs for big bucks, but they belong to the family and somebody will be getting them.
The only part that actually bothers me is it sounds like a vet bring back and the family isn't going to keep it to honor their veteran, they are just gonna "cash out." I think I've seen too much Pawn Stars where shitheel relatives inherit valuable items, pawn them for 30% of their value so they can try their luck at the casino. It's so disrespectful.
I could sell a lot of my grandfathers bring backs for big bucks, but they belong to the family and somebody will be getting them.
This. Gramps hid liquor, vintage porno, and a couple Thompsons and Schmeissers away he smuggled from Krautistan and people sell it for some lame new car.
A LOT of folks of that era knew what was up and while they weren’t “gun people” they liked knowing they had some good good laying about.
Weak.
This is why if I have no worthy heirs I’m blowing my stuff up so some smartass says “I want a 2060 Audi. Let’s sell these SR-25s. Pop-pop would want it that way”
And I would be looking up from blackest, darkest Hell screaming “NO! NO! DON’T BE SELLING MY STASH!”
The only part that actually bothers me is it sounds like a vet bring back and the family isn't going to keep it to honor their veteran, they are just gonna "cash out." I think I've seen too much Pawn Stars where shitheel relatives inherit valuable items, pawn them for 30% of their value so they can try their luck at the casino. It's so disrespectful.
I could sell a lot of my grandfathers bring backs for big bucks, but they belong to the family and somebody will be getting them.
I have mixed feelings about the selling and buying of bring backs because I own two rifles that were bring backs from the war. One is a 1940 all numbers matching, Kriegsmarine K98K, and the other is an early war, numbers matching, Type 99 Arisaka. The Type 99 also has the matching dust cover, AA sight, monopod, and the mum is not defaced.
Kriegsmarine K98K pics (https://imgur.com/a/rkvsGwo)
Type 99 Arisaka pics (https://imgur.com/a/XSS8OmG)
Sadly, there are a lot of people who care more about money than their own family history. Ideally, rifles like mine should have been donated to a museum, but there are so many of these weapons out there that museums don't want them. I would much rather these pieces of history end up with collectors like myself rather than in some city's gun buy back program.
About two years ago I was managing a LGS, and this Walther PP came in for transfer.
https://i.imgur.com/EJjUJMM.jpg
Being a history buff, I did some research and found out that it was a pre-war pistol, and just barely missed being a "Party Leader" PP by less than a thousand units. The guy that was getting the pistol had inherited it from his grandfather who had brought it back from Germany after the war and had just passed away. When the gentleman came in to complete the transfer he asked me if we had a holster to fit it because he wanted to use it as his daily carry. The stupidity of some people amazes me sometimes.
This. Gramps hid liquor, vintage porno, and a couple Thompsons and Schmeissers away he smuggled from Krautistan and people sell it for some lame new car.
A LOT of folks of that era knew what was up and while they weren’t “gun people” they liked knowing they had some good good laying about.
Weak.
This is why if I have no worthy heirs I’m blowing my stuff up so some smartass says “I want a 2060 Audi. Let’s sell these SR-25s. Pop-pop would want it that way”
And I would be looking up from blackest, darkest Hell screaming “NO! NO! DON’T BE SELLING MY STASH!”
Suitable "heirs" need not be blood relatives. If I think the only family candidates are just going to "cash it out" I will pull a Gran Torino and give it to someone who deserves it.
I have mixed feelings about the selling and buying of bring backs because I own two rifles that were bring backs from the war. One is a 1940 all numbers matching, Kriegsmarine K98K, and the other is an early war, numbers matching, Type 99 Arisaka. The Type 99 also has the matching dust cover, AA sight, monopod, and the mum is not defaced.
Kriegsmarine K98K pics (https://imgur.com/a/rkvsGwo)
Type 99 Arisaka pics (https://imgur.com/a/XSS8OmG)
Sadly, there are a lot of people who care more about money than their own family history. Ideally, rifles like mine should have been donated to a museum, but there are so many of these weapons out there that museums don't want them. I would much rather these pieces of history end up with collectors like myself rather than in some city's gun buy back program.
About two years ago I was managing a LGS, and this Walther PP came in for transfer.
https://i.imgur.com/EJjUJMM.jpg
Being a history buff, I did some research and found out that it was a pre-war pistol, and just barely missed being a "Party Leader" PP by less than a thousand units. The guy that was getting the pistol had inherited it from his grandfather who had brought it back from Germany after the war and had just passed away. When the gentleman came in to complete the transfer he asked me if we had a holster to fit it because he wanted to use it as his daily carry. The stupidity of some people amazes me sometimes.
I get that. But I've had too many experiences where somebody was trying to sell me something for top dollar because "Grampa was a HERO and personally captured this" and I always ask "If that means so much to YOU then why are YOU selling it?"
And yeah, I'd have bought that guy a BRAND NEW PP, possibly in stainless which makes it a better carry gun and just traded him out even. Would have even found a good holster for him for free.
And yeah, I'd have bought that guy a BRAND NEW PP, possibly in stainless which makes it a better carry gun and just traded him out even. Would have even found a good holster for him for free.
Well long story short, I ended up telling the guy that this pistol was important to his family's history, that he needed to research his grandfather's service during the war, and make a shadow box with the pistol and his grandfather's citations in it.
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